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[ERROR] No.38830196 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

THE HEKTOR HERESY is a collaborative writing project that aims to re-tell the age old story of the Fall of Mankind into the Grim Darkness of the Future. We started by supposing a slightly different end to the Age of Strife, with different Primarchs being born in the Himalayzian Mountains and a different (but recognisably 40k) galaxy awaiting the Great Crusade. Things are now getting to the point where Hektor's rebellion is being covered.

We're happy to welcome new contributors. If you'd like to have a read of the project (and please, don't pitch an idea without having read anything!), there are a few possible starting points. The main page is:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_Heresy
While the main timeline is at:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki//tg/_Heresy_Timeline
If you're a believer in the Beakies is best school of GeeDubs, you might find it helpful to start at:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Legiones_Astartes_(Hektor_Heresy)
But we have plentiful greeblies
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Xenos_of_the_Hektor_Heresy

>> No.38830693

Ok, after a brainwave, I’ve written this, a summary (and a crude one at that) of who the head of the Dark Mechanicum should be. It’s taking a minor canon character and expanding their role.

So before you read any further, here is who they are in canon as a reference.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Koriel_Zeth

---

Koriel Zeth: The Magma Queen of the Dark Mechanicum.

Mistress of the Magma City on Mars, Koriel Zeth was a high ranking Magos among the Lords of Mars, the mightiest of that order. Unlike her counterparts, including the Fabricator General she did not believe in the existence of the Machine God, rather putting her faith in reason and science. To her, the Emperor was a paragon to follow, but nothing more. These views were heretical, and she kept them hidden as much as possible from all but her closest confidants. Her Forge of the Magma City was considered a beacon of learning on Mars, and new innovations such as the Noosphere were pioneered there. She was dedicated foremost to recovering the Knowledge lost during Old Night by any means necessary, and it was this that would ensure her damnation and that of the Mechanicum.

To that end, she began a secret project that involved tapping into the Empyrean and through that into a wellspring of knowledge by way of the Akashic Reader. She was taught by her mentor that within the Warp there was a great repository of information where every thought, action and deed that had or would ever exist was recorded. The Akashic Reader was a device designed to attain this knowledge, to tap into this great repository and reveal all that lay within. With it, Zeth could at a stroke recover all the technology lost in Old Night and restore man to the Golden Age of Technology.

>> No.38830717

>>38830693

For decades she laboured, with many failures along the way. But eventually thanks to outside help Zeth was able to complete the device by obtaining Psykers secretly taken from the Black Ships. Those psykers would be used to channel the energy of the Astronomican, punching through to the Akashic. It succeeded far beyond what she had expected. But she didn’t find what she was expecting. She instead found the truth, the Primordial Truth, as Chaos spoke to her and she listened.

The secrets of the Warp were revealed. Chaos was the wellspring of knowledge that she had been seeking, the way in which man could be elevated and the lost fruits of the past restored and even improved upon. Secrets that could not even be imagined were revealed to her, and she drank them in.

Her eyes were opened to new ways. Machines empowered by the raw forces of the warp, Technology not bound by the laws of nature, the machine and the daemon fused together in perfect harmony. She also learned the way in which this dream could be realized: The Vaults of Moravec.

But the Vaults were deep beneath Mount Olympus, and she could not reach them alone. Fortunately the Gods revealed that Hektor would soon be theirs, and he would need allies on the Red Planet. So Zeth began to corrupt those closest to her, slowly spreading the poison of the new teachings of the Warp. The thirst for new technology brought about by the Emperor would prove to be their downfall. Soon her cult, which she called the ‘True Mechanicum’ grew, a secret cancer within the Mechanicum. She sought allies from Forgeworlds near and far, using the leverage of the Fabricator Locum, the second most powerful member of the Mechanicum after the Fabricator General and a personal friend who she had corrupted to aid her. Forges like Sarum, Cyclotrathe, Zpandex and Incaladion secretly pledged themselves to the ‘new ways’ and began to research binding the Warp and the machine together.

>> No.38830742

>>38830717

When Hektor sent his emissaries to Mars, Zeth had already lain the groundwork. They were surprised that she knew about them and their mission, and moreso when they learned of her plans. Swiftly she was recognised as the head of the Warmaster’s Mechanicum Allies and a member of his War Council. She grew swiftly in his favour as the Dark Mechanicum took on more and more of the brunt of the War, though this was not viewed by all in a positive light. Indeed the rivalry between the Mistress of Luna and the Mistress of Mars for power, influence and the favour of Hektor which came almost immediately from this would grow over time, and be a source of much conflict during the Legion Wars in the Eye.

When war broke out, Zeth was at the forefront. She led the forces on Mars during the Battles for Olympus Mons, Acraeus Mons and the Iron Ring. Time and again Imperial Assassins struck out at her, only to fail. Her power only grew when she finally opened the Vaults of Moravec, and unleashed the Warp Unchained upon Mars, drinking deep of that power and changing in ways both subtle and terrible. At the Siege of Terra, she personally led her forces in battle, mighty Daemon Engines grinding all before them into the dust. When the Heresy ended, she fled to the Eye and established several Hell-Forges there. Those Forges soon came under attack by the servants of Pallas Eugenesis, who long harboured a grudge against Zeth that was fully shared by her opposite. Thus began the Wars of Flesh and Iron between the two, wars which still rage to this day.

>> No.38830788

>>38830742

In the 41s Millenium, Zeth is still the master of the Dark Mechanicum, though she rarely leaves the Eye. On her dark Hell-Forge of Novo Mars she rules, her body made of molten metal infused with warp energies in the shape of a beautiful woman. Some within the Eye have drawn the comparison between her and Pallas Eugenesis, and how both try to personify their chosen substance and outdo one another. She barters her engines of war for slaves and goods and frequently sees petitions by the most powerful Warlords in the Eye seeking her support for their strikes against the Imperium.

---

Right. How good/bad is this idea? I liked the idea of giving Pallas a rival.

>> No.38831073

>>38830788
>I liked the idea of giving Pallas a rival.
I'm OK with the general idea, but slightly disturbed by the implication that there's some kind of "women's auxilia" of rivalry running parallel to the male characters' rivalries. Objectively, Pallas and this version of Zeth are both ruthless scientist types with non-overlapping magisteria. They'd clash at times (because Chaos) but there's no profound material interest for a long-standing rivalry.

Pallas' main frenemy in the Legion Wars is Cassandor, because both of them have different ideas on how to rebuild the Heralds. The End Times ensue when they make combine their forces behind Elenkor.

Probably the thing to do with Zeth is to make her less Dark Mechanicum less monolithic, so that there are other serious players in it (some of whom think she failed them).

>> No.38831183

>>38831073

Given that Zeth's on Mars for most of the Heresy, other Dark Mechanicum Warlords who actually fight on other worlds in the Red Road to Terra could gain enough influence to stand apart. There's plenty of precedent for that.

The Dark Mechanicum could share the generally feudal structure of the Pre-Heresy Mechanicum, with every Heretek Magos commanding a Forge World with only nominal authority to the Magma Queen.

>> No.38831613

so, I saw you guys were arguing about mars, saying that it's less devastating if the dark mechanicus don't have olympus mons

what you failed to factor in was the army/fleet of genetically engineered abominations bombarding mars
Pallas opens the lunar gene-vaults and just sicks them on mars, her eternal rival
so not only do they have to fight the DM from within, but they also have to defend against the fully equipped army of gene-monsters invading them.

>> No.38831703

>>38831613
Onyx did you see my last post directed at you?

>> No.38832076

>>38831703
was it in the last thread?
because I might have missed it
lay it on me

>> No.38832277

>>38832076
>(ONYX IF YOU ARE READING THIS RIGHT NOW) I want to emphasise a strong relationship between the CT and
SM during the unification wars and early part of the GC. They become estranged as the CT are deployed in more and more enforcement campaigns and become increasingly bitter and ruthless. Camaxtli estranges the legions from one another entirely because of cultural differences, pride, misunderstanding and general distrust.

I think the CT are pretty chill early on and just get pigeon holed into the cleanup crew and gap-filler so they slowly become a lot of what the stonemen hate. I would like to explore this with you.

>> No.38832836

>>38832277
so they start out similar, but wheras the Stone Men slowly become cave/siege/defense guys, the CT are forced to go deeper and deeper into senseless violence and bloodshed, eventually becoming a tradition?
interesting. Could we extend this relationship to the primarchs in some way?
also, speaking of that, I want to explore Onyx's relationships with the other primarchs

>> No.38833022

>>38832836
Yes.

See, part of me wants to explore the idea of what angron would have been like if he had never been mind-raped with the butchers nails. In a sense Camaxtli being a prideful, boastful, intelligent and dangerous warrior is an extension of that. Throughout the crusade a legion of janitors is foisted upon him and he laments at the lack of badassery so he strives mightily to fight wars which will earn him renown rather than fear alone.

Unfortunately, he steps on other legions toes and is basically getting in the Emperor's way a bit. So, despite his efforts he becomes mired in the same bloody behavior of his sons, though more extreme now as they have adopted and adapted his teachings. That Onyx, the only Primarch more physically imposing than he is, has the gall to condemn his methods with no recognition of his own privileges simply pisses off Camaxtli more.

I get the feeling that initially Camaxtli or Onyx really did try to hit it off, but the differences in philosophy, background, and behavior were too great.

Although it goes without saying they both agree Cromwald is a faggot.

>> No.38833533

>>38833022
Onyx, are you hiding?

>> No.38833734

>>38833533
>>38833022
sounds ballin'

>> No.38833849

>>38832836
>I want to explore Onyx's relationships with the other primarchs
You should also detail Onyx's supporting cast in the Stone Men, but OK.

The Vardhana is inscrutable and I think Onyx has little time for lateral thinking. They probably don't have a lot to do with one another.

Gaspard is, well, Gaspard.

Hektor considers Onyx to be a stand-up fellow, highly reliable but not too showy. The "better sort of Primarch".

>>38833022
Camaxtli must have extremely mixed feelings towards Gaspard Lumey.

>> No.38834159

>>38833849
What would the various Primarchs under your patronship think of Inferox?

I'd like to get Alexandri more sorted out before asking you about him.

>> No.38834505

>>38833849
Indeed, Gaspard is certainly a challenge.

Camaxtli assumes - only somewhat correctly - that Gaspard is an arrogant intellectual stuck too deep in ideology to recognize the reality of his purpose. Looking down upon those he judges as inferior because he does not recognize the worth of ideas that are entirely at odds with his own, and disregards the subtle nature of his people for the material trappings of success.

At the same time, Gaspard is an incredible general who has proven himself repeatedly as worthy of his generalship. The active obstructionism of his 'older' siblings simply emphasising Lumey's abilities as he makes incredible gains despite inadequate resources.

Further, Camaxtli can definitely relate with Gaspard's rebellion and overthrow of a tyrannical state. But only just. Camaxtli never enjoyed the benefits of his peoples love, only their fear, and he did not remake the kingdom into a new image he simply replaced its leaders.

Thus, overall Gaspard meets Camaxtli's standards of genuine importance: military competence, rational thinking, reliability. But the sheer amount of disagreement the Great Maw has with Lumey's behavior makes it incredibly difficult for him to see that.

He knows intuitively that Gaspard is not another Cromwald, but he sure as fuck sounds like one.

>> No.38834562

>>38834505
>Looking down upon those he judges as inferior because he does not recognize the worth of ideas that are entirely at odds with his own, and disregards the subtle nature of his people for the material trappings of success.

I realize this could be misconstrued as Camaxtli totally misjudging Lumey as a callous leader who does not care about his people. That is not my intention. What I mean is Lumey is only concerned with the physicality of his position and his people.

Camaxtli knows there is more to the universe than that thanks to his upbringing - although he has no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes - and views Lumey as fairly ignorant despite his learning.

>> No.38835979

>>38834159
>What would the various Primarchs under your patronship think of Inferox?
Gaspard's thoughts after the fact have been written down. In the time of the Great Crusade, I think their interactions would be short and sharp - they're two of the most volatile Primarchs.

The Vardhana is inscrutable.

Hektor would warm to Inferox as his own problems increased. Initially, the Burned King doesn't quite fit the mould of what Hektor believes a Primarch ought to be - but in the second century, the Sun King is more anxious of his own position and starts courting the also-rans as allies.

>> No.38836346

>>38835979
Perhaps I need reread the Inferox page and write him out more. Something isn't sitting with me about those comments and I'm not sure what it is. I feel perhaps I might have not been portraying Inferox how I see him. Who knows, I could just be getting needlessly paranoid as I am prone to do.

In other words, I'm working on special characters of the SoF. After that I'm hoping to clean up the Hungry Desire and call it a day on the legion.

>> No.38836380

>>38836346

How do you see him? From what I've read (and Written) he's almost a dual personality, with his hunger for fire and destruction and yet his desire for the light and enlightenment.

>> No.38836529

>>38836380
That's precisely it.

It's a war of the mind between what he thinks he wants and what his baser nature desires. He seeks to use his more primal self to bring about a greater future, to bring understanding to those around him. Turing your greatest weakness into your greatness strength. When he loses faith in everything, he is just consumed by the weight of his need for death and wanton destruction. What better avatar then for Khorne to use as his agent in the Horus Heresy?

I think I may not be touching on his adaptable mind and amazing general skills. I imagine people might even call him in universe as 'the less desirable Hektor'.

Hmm, on that note, wonder what Pallas thinks of him.

>> No.38836606

>>38836529

Lumey said she had three categories of Primarchs. I think to her he'd fit into the 'useful idiot' category.

I actually wonder how she would have seen Tollund in that regard.

>> No.38837024

>>38836529
How does he treat the other Primarchs? In general, I mean.

Like Gaspard is sharp and critical, Hektor is a gregarious patrician, the Vardhana is almost a walking mirror or scrying pool, Roman is earnest and valiant, etc.

>> No.38837128

Who is this Vardhana and what does he do? I can't find him anywhere on the wiki.

>> No.38837195

>>38837128

The new name for the head of the Eyes of the Emperor.

>> No.38837208

>>38837128
Shakya Vardhana is the Primarch of the Eyes of the Emperor. Vardhana is an honorific, but calling him "The Vardhana" calls certain things to mind.

>> No.38837730

I did a thing. Because I'm bored.

---

Abdul Al-Sherar ‘The Lord of Bones’
...................................................
500 points

WS6
BS4
S10
Front13
Side12
Rear12
I4
A3
HP6

Unit Composition
•1 Abdul Al-Sherar
Unit Type
•Vehicle (Super-heavy Walker, Unique)
Wargear
•Pulsar Fusil
•Grav Gun
•Tempest Broadsword
•Enhanced Ionic flare shield
•Blessed autosimulacra
Special Rules
•(Super-heavy Walker) Fear, Hammer of Wrath, Invincible Behemoth, Move Through Cover, Relentless, Smash and Strikedown
•Overtaxed Reactor
•Knights’s Quest

Blessed Autosimulacra
If a vehicle has suffered Hull Point damage at the end of the controlling player’s turn, roll a D6. On a 6, one lost Hull Point is restored.

Enhanced Ionic Flare Shield
When Abdul Al-Sherar is deployed, and subsequently at the start of each of the opposing side’s Shooting phases, his controlling player must declare which facing his ionic flare shield is covering. The choices are: front, left side, right side or rear. The Knight has a 3+ invulnerable save against all hits on that facing until the start of the opposing side’s next Shooting phase, and the strength of any Shooting attack against it from that facing is reduced by -1, the effect increasing to -2 if the weapon has the Blast or Template rules (note, however, that this strength reduction has no effect on Destroyer or Haywire attacks). Ionic flare shields are repositioned before any attacks are carried out in the Shooting phase and may not be used to make saving throws against close combat attacks.

Overtaxed Reactor
When destroyed, the Knight adds +1 to the result rolled on the Catastrophic Damage table.

Knight’s Quest: Abdul Al-Sherar seeks to become the greatest Knight by facing the most deadly opponents on the Battlefield. Abdul Al-Sherar has the ‘Sworn Enemy’ rule from the Scion Aucteller.

Weapons
Tempest Broadsword
Range: -
Str: 10
AP: 1
Type: Melee, Deflagrate, Tempest Attack, Sunder

>> No.38837758

>>38837208
Indeed it does. That's why I asked.

I'm finally gonna get around to updating the actions of the pre-Augurs during the Merican Hives. I'm still figuring out a name but I've got a good conceptual grasp of what they are and got some ideas for actual actions.

I'm currently thinking about calling the squad the Shining Fifteenth.

As well I'm gonna try and go over and refurbish the section on psychic powers. It hasn't been updated in a long long time so it's still based on the outdated precognition focus. I may edit a few other sections for things I see as outdated or not so good anymore. I'm looking at your disposition section.

Oh and update the legion scheme to the new one. It's been outdated for a month or so now.

>> No.38837779

>>38837730
Oh oh do me.

>> No.38837852

>>38837779

I've statted like half the primarchs, might as well.

Juts give an idea where on the power level spectrum and what weapons/armour he uses, and I'll draft something up.

>> No.38837872

>>38837024
He views all of his brothers largely the same with a few exceptions. Hektor, to him, is his idealized self. The person without any scruples or sordid past, who was given the higher education early on he yearned for, and who can wage war unlike any mortal man to bring about a greater future. Alexandri he dislikes because he can only see the man working for his own ambition rather than for the betterment of all, but still improves things even if it is just to serve his aims. He actually has a deep appreciation for Arelex who seeks to do more than just wage war. You know, before everything. The only person he actually hates, is Voidwatcher.

>>38837128
He's Darius but not but also yes.

>> No.38837948

>>38837730
I saw Lord of Bones as rather more unusual than that. I'll post my own version in due course.

>>38837872
No, I mean how does he treat them in general? Not opinions, actions.

>> No.38838003

>>38837852
Overall I'd call him a huge glass cannon. He's got lighter armour than most of the other Primarchs by a mile, in fluff that's supplemented by sorcerous wards but I've never played table top so I'm not sure how that would translate to rules. He's likely got a pretty massive damage output with ranged psychic attacks, probably outstripping any of the other Primarchs in that way but it's a bit more dangerous because of the rolling for psychic mishaps. His main melee weapon is basically just a beefed up Necron warscythe in my head. Similar rules but only a little more powerful to balance out the psychic attack power.

Hm. I suppose this might be pretty difficult to stat him seeing as we're currently lacking Magnus. If I had to compare the two I'd say not as durable but even more powerful spell power wise.

Oh, and I imagine him levitating everywhere, so if he had the rules for ignoring terrain like a Eldar or Tau tank that would be hilarious.

>> No.38838040

>>38837948

How much more unusual? I took the Magaera chassis, improved the Flare Shield and added a bigger gun and a better blade. Should it have more Archeotech funk in it?

>>38838003

What are the names of his weapons and armour then? I'll start working something up.

>> No.38838140

>>38838040
The armour is called, rather un-creatively, the Veil and the weapon is called Epilogue. Because it comes at the end of someones story.

>>38837872
>The only person he actually hates, is Voidwatcher.
This pleases the Voidwatcher

>> No.38838197

>>38838140
I'm sure it will please you to learn that the Vardhana greets the Voidwatcher with a wary compassion, neither hostile to his brother nor unaware of his nature.

Shakya is an annoying shit.

>> No.38838266

>>38838197
Is he on the wiki at all? I'd like to learn more about him without clogging up the thread.

I am glad the Voidwatcher might have one Primarch that isn't neutral-outright hostile with him though. It's better for the character.

>> No.38838373

>>38838266
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Shakya_Vardhana
Still needs to be properly converted from what I wrote for Darius. The Eyes page is more thoroughly worked up:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Eyes_of_the_Emperor

>> No.38838392

>>38838140

Draft.

The Voidwatcher
...................................................
460 points

WS6
BS6
S6
T6
W5
I6
A4
LD10
SV3+

Unit Composition
•1 (Unique)

Unit Type
•Infantry (Character)

Wargear
•The Veil
•Epilogue
•Psychic Hood
•Frag Grenades


Special Rules
•Primarch
•Warp Binder
•Runes of Fate
•Sire of the Black Augurs
•Bulky

The Veil: Graven with Runes of protection, the Veil is a modified suit of Mk II Plate that protects against fell blows. The Veil proves a 3+ armour save and a 4+ Invulnerable save, in addition the Voidwatcher is immune to the Poison and Fleshbane rules.

Epilogue: A great bladed Force glaive, Epilogue has spelled the end of many foes. It has the following Profile. S8, AP2, Rend and Shred. When activated as a force weapon it gains the Soulblaze rule.

Warp Binder: The Voidwatcher is a Level 4 Psyker who may select his powers freely from any discipline. When manifesting a Psychic Power, the Voidwatcher rolls 3d6 and discards the highest result.

Runes of Fate: The Voidwatcher may force a single dice roll, either of his attacks or an enemy targeting him to be re-rolled every turn.

Sire of the Black Augurs: The Voidwatcher is one of the few who can compel obedience from his fractious sons, even if for a short time. All Black Augurs on the table with the Voidwatcher may re-roll failed Morale checks and ignore the ‘Fruit of Dissent’ rule.

>> No.38838714

>>38837948
He'd most likely celebrate their victories and the achievements of their Legions. He's not one to throw an insult even if it's swung his way. He's very silent when not in combat, but relishes the heat of battle and could be said it's the only place and time when you can find the Burned King laughing. He can come off as dismissive and introverted at times though.

Does that answer your question?

>> No.38838752

>>38838392
'zat you, Lorebro?

>> No.38838764

>>38838714
Sounds like a bit of a wallflower. I doubt most of the Primarchs would pay him much mind.

>> No.38838805

>>38838752

Yes.

What do you think of
>>38830693
>>38830717
>>38830742
>>38830788

>> No.38838915

>>38838805
"Magma" queen is.... less than subtle.

Chaos seems fine.

Princess of molten metal is kinda cool.

Busting into the Astronomicon is a bit much, though appropriately "chaosy". I question when in the timeline this occurs though, cause if there's even the slightest hint of it before the Heresy, then the Emperor or the FabbyGen or both are going to ASSWRECK her.

>> No.38838999

>>38838915
>Busting into the Astronomicon is a bit much, though appropriately "chaosy". I question when in the timeline this occurs though, cause if there's even the slightest hint of it before the Heresy, then the Emperor or the FabbyGen or both are going to ASSWRECK her.

It's actually from a BL Book, 'Mechanicum'. In that book, her experiment fails. Here, it succeeds, far too well as it happens.

---

‘You remember I told you that it takes a great deal of energy to breach the walls separating us from the aether?’ said Zeth.

‘Yes.’

‘Well, it takes a form and amount of energy that cannot be generated here on Mars.’

‘What kind of energy?’

‘Psychic energy,’ said Zeth, ‘in quantities that can only be harvested from one source, the Astronomican.’

‘The Emperor’s warp beacon? The one that guides starships?’

‘The very same,’ said Zeth, pointing towards the metallic disc at the dome’s apex, from which golden spears of energy were arcing. ‘Only the Astronomican has the required psychic energy that will allow the Akashic reader to access the sum of all knowledge we seek. We will divert a fraction of its power into the chamber to empower the psykers and open the gates to the aether.’

‘Won’t it disrupt the Astronomican if we use its power?’ asked Dalia.

Zeth looked over at Maximal, a moment’s hesitation giving Dalia the answer she sought.

‘It will,’ admitted Zeth, ‘but only for a short span of time.’

>> No.38839358

>>38838764
>Google that term
>a type of loner. seemingly shy folks who no one really knows. often some of the most interesting people if one actually talks to them. cute.
Huh, I suppose-
>cute.

>> No.38839412

>>38839358

Have you not seen that film, 'The Perks of Being a Wallflower'?

>> No.38839739

>>38839358
>google

>> No.38839780

>>38839739

You a Bing Man?

>> No.38839969

>>38839780
4 hue

>> No.38840358

>>38838915
>>38838999
>then the Emperor or the FabbyGen or both are going to ASSWRECK her.

>You're now imagining the Emperor and Fabricator-General double teaming Zeth's bum.

>> No.38843233

>>38837730
>Lord of Bones
Do I need to get my copywright lawyer?

>> No.38843294

>>38837730
>>38843233
Also, if we're posting rules we made up

>> No.38843322

>>38843294
Warlock's Bane needs to be changed because LMAO REWRITES AGAIN :^)

>> No.38843498

>>38843233
Probably not.

>> No.38843511

>>38843233

The Lord of Bones is Lumey's creating. He's an Arabic Lancelot, and bloody awesome.

>> No.38843741

>>38843294

If I may critique, the WS is too high and the BS is too low. WS8 has Golgothos equaling the likes of Angron and Horus. That makes him one of the single best fighters in the Imperium. That doesn't to me fit Golgothos. A Dread is not a good tool for fighting with against nimble opponents. Also he needs another Hull point. 5 is the same as a Spartan, and that won't last long against a foe with good anti-tank like a Rapier Battery or a Grav-Gun unit.

>> No.38843847

>>38843741
>If I may critique, the WS is too high and the BS is too low. WS8 has Golgothos equaling the likes of Angron and Horus.
I figured they'd be 10s. I guess I'll bring it down, he has Hatred on the charge and a ton of attacks anyway. As for BS, he's meant to be wildly inaccurate, with his Demolisher Cannon scattering every which way carelessly and his Gravgun being mostly a crapshoot he fires before he charges.

>Also he needs another Hull point. 5 is the same as a Spartan
I had trouble finding a good reference point for his AV and HPs. I've never looked at the rules for knights.

Possible replacement for Fury of Ostium:

Nurgle's Bane: If Golgothos, Primarch of the Entombed issues or accepts challenges from a unit with the Mark of Nurgle or Daemon of Nurgle special rules, he receives the Shred special rule, and the unit suffers -2 to its Leadership for the purposes of Daemonic Instability. Golgothos receives this bonus until the end of the turn, even if the unit that triggered it refuses his challenge.

>> No.38843877

>>38843847

Well, here's your average Knight for reference.

>> No.38843907

>>38843877
Man people weren't kidding, Knights are fuckin OP as balls.

>> No.38843926

>>38843907

Well, I can see Golg's Dread Chassis using Knight Components as well as Dread ones for strength and ease of use. I actually wondered why Golg doesn't have an Ion Shield on his Dread either.

>> No.38844013

>>38843926
He's got an invulnerable save on all facings from his Rosarius, 14/14/12 AV, and Venerable

>> No.38844218

>>38843877
what the fuck are Invincible and Behemoth?

>> No.38844491

>>38844218
Invincible Behemoth is the USR for super-heavy vehicles. It gives them immunity to some conditions that can apply to other vehicles and turns automatic destruction effects into damage.

>> No.38844762

>>38844013
Neat stats

>> No.38844777

>>38844762
I forgot to give Roman grenades.

>> No.38844823

>>38843294
>>38844013
Just looking these rules over, some of them don't really work:
>Vehicle & Primarch
Several of the Primarch USRs don't really work on a Vehicle or would need a special clarification in order to do so.

>Walking Tomb
The wording on this is strange. You should either have it give an effect like IWND but triggered on a 4+, or make it a +1 to IWND rolls.

>The Fervent
How would he refuse a challenge anyway? He can't join a unit, so he's always covered under the Heroic Stand rule.

>Litany of Hate
Any reason why he doesn't just have Zealot?

>Fury of Ostium... receives these attacks even if the psyker refuses his challenge
That's not how challenges work. You have to challenge the "foe at large".

For the rest of it, you really leaned on the Chaplain for ideas and don't seem to have drawn on the 30k material that much. The Rosarius doesn't appear to exist in 30k (certainly the Chaplains don't get it), although there's nothing wrong with G. getting an invulnerable save. I don't find the WS so concerning - it should certainly be higher than Casian Draco's! - but the BS should probably be as good as an ordinary Space Marine's.

>>38844762
Roman should probably be T6. Otherwise, he's in the ballpark I expected. Mind you, not nearly as deadly as Angron, so you might not have gone far enough with him.

>> No.38844833

>>38844823
Any suggestions?

>> No.38844907

>>38844833
He can't hate everything, so the Angron solution is out. But I do think he should have a substantial bonus in and for Challenges.

I'd definitely simplify his weapon rules (they involve a lot of stuffing around with -X/+X) for starters, and probably pick just one weapon to work with. Maybe get rid of Redemption, it's mainly just a fiddlier and weaker version of Lumey's "Rasoir Impériale" (Armourbane and Shred > Bane of Traitors). For the Honourblade, rather than Master Parry (fiddly) and In. boosts (largely irrelevant), he should have some more "throw weight". Forcing successful saves to be rechecked would make him much nastier and seems plausible for the weapon.

>> No.38844932

>>38844907
I'll keep that in mind and work on it.

>> No.38845768

bump

>> No.38846001

>>38844013
Cut out Eternal warrior and Fearless. Reword The Fervent to the Champion of Chaos rule: "This model must declare a challenge in close combat if an enemy character is also participating in the combat."

You also have a shitton of special stuff on him, I suggest getting rid of the skyspear assault platform. Sure, he's a primarch, but all of the primarchs have drawbacks or clear weaknesses.

Angron is only a combat character
Perturabo is a decent CC guy taken for his buff abilities
Alpharius a shit primarch, but has the best special rules
Horus is damn expensive.
Dorn is cheap, has decent rules, and is an average primarch.
etc.

Also, give the option to purchase him Ceramite plating, and to exchange the battle cannon for the skyfire weapon.

Then raise his points cost to somewhere around 500.

>Warlocks bane
What are the rules for this?

>Nurgle's bane
Bro, benefits to challenges only work if both models are participating in the challenge. It means people only get screwed if they decide to play ball, but lose out because they can't participate in combat.

Also, big point to make here: Include (Character) in his profile, otherwise Golgothos will not be able to make challenges.

I'd also say rear armor 11 for the sake of balance because at this point he is becoming indestructible. He ought to be near invincible, not almost literally so.

>>38844823
>why not Zealot?

Because that is just like giving him hatred and fearless. Litany of hate is a more fluffy name for Hatred, and more inclusive because it 'hates' everything. If Golgothos is the super-chappy primarch he ought to look the part.

>Clarification on Walking Tomb
Lumey's suggestion is spot on.

>>38844907
>no universal hate
He can have universal preferred enemy because of his studious examination of all the Imperiums foes coupled with a lifetime of experience and the innate abilities of a primarch.

>>38844762
Lumey is right about the -x/+x complications.

cont/

>> No.38846032

>>38846001
cont for Roman/

Master Parry: Roman may elect to parry the attacks of a single model in base to base contact with him. The controlling players roll a d6 and add the WS of the given models to their roll. If Roman loses the roll reduce his initiative by 3 until his next turn. If he is successful the enemy model's attacks are reduced to a minimum of 1 until the end of the combat phase

>> No.38849282

Bump.

>> No.38849599

>>38844823
>Several of the Primarch USRs don't really work on a Vehicle or would need a special clarification in order to do so.
Primarch is a fixed special rule that gives you a group of special rules. You can't add or remove things from it. The things that don't apply to him simply don't apply to him.

>The wording on this is strange. You should either have it give an effect like IWND but triggered on a 4+, or make it a +1 to IWND rolls.
That's a very good point

>How would he refuse a challenge anyway? He can't join a unit, so he's always covered under the Heroic Stand rule.
I think maybe he can refuse challenges if there's another allied unit in the combat, but I see your point.

>Any reason why he doesn't just have Zealot?
Litany of Hate is lifted from the FW chaplain dreadnoughts. He's a brute on the charge but has limited staying power (like his legion)

>don't seem to have drawn on the 30k material that much.
Not too familiar with 30k material. I looked at a couple primarchs for benchmarks for his strength, that's about it.

>>38846001
>"This model must declare a challenge in close combat if an enemy character is also participating in the combat."
I'm not sure I want him to be required to issue challenges, because the core idea is for him to be, unlike other walkers, very good at dealing with tarpits and hordes. He's got templates and a shit-ton of attacks. I actually kinda want to reduce his capability of going 1 on 1. I'd even consider removing Character if it wasn't a part of Primarch.

>Also, give the option to purchase him Ceramite plating, and to exchange the battle cannon for the skyfire weapon.
Options like Ceramite on a unit like this seem silly, it should just be an auto-include with an increase to the base cost. As for the Skyfire I want to include some sort of auto-targeting rule like Tankbustas used to have, or not include it at all, or something. Leaning toward not including it.

New version.

>> No.38850120

>>38849599
>Ceramite is autoinclude
Not always. Especially since he is hella expensive already.

>No challenge requirement
Then I suggest removing all special rules that buff him in challenges and simply retain the character special rule, that way he can challenge but it is not his primary utility. I agree that normally you do not want him in a challenge but he IS a primarch.

>> No.38850205

>>38849599
>Primarch is a fixed special rule
So define "Dreadnought Primarch" as a different Special Rule. Consider it a parallel to the Psychic Pilot USR.

>I looked at a couple primarchs for benchmarks for his strength, that's about it.
None of the Primarchs have D weapons, though. If you really want him to be able to put the hurt on vehicles, there's stuff like Armourbane.

>Nurgle's Bane
Bear in mind that the Life Bringers probably won't have the Mark of Nurgle (the Death Guard don't).

>> No.38850215

>>38844762
Work on formatting this the way codexes are, with lists of wargear, special rules, etc, then clarifications for any unique special rules.

Sire of the Steel Marshals seems a bit weird. Spess Muhreenz already can't be pinned or go to ground, unless it's different in 30k

>Riposte and Strike
The wording of this is weird. Look at Gabriel Seth, he has the same thing.

Master Parry is cool and pretty balaned. It makes him very good for eating (but not necessarily winning) challenges.

Bane of Traitors is bretty neat too.

Essentially this guy is a support platform. I'd play him by sticking him in my Deathstar unit to grant it Fearless and eat any challenges that come his way, so the unit he's supporting can clear out the unit and eventually join and win the challenge. If you like that support role, I'd remove Bane of Traitors and give him something like granting Preferred Enemy (Traitor Legions) to his squad.

Also give the dude a Storm Bolter (with relentless) or something instead of a teeny little pistol.

>>38850120
Yeah, this >>38849599 went with the mindset of just disincentivizing challenges by making him real good against hordes

>> No.38850246

>>38850205
>None of the Primarchs have D weapons, though.
D weapon is something I'm seriously on the fence about. He's supposed to be sort of a halfway point between a Dread and a Knight. I'm leaning against it, personally.

>Bear in mind that the Life Bringers probably won't have the Mark of Nurgle (the Death Guard don't).
Any other ideas on how to define the rule? Legiones Astartes (Life Bringers)?

>> No.38850310

On a different note, my Laptop is seriously beginning to crap out. It's got a wire bleed problem that makes it repeatedly spam BACKSPACE, which as you can imagine means it's pretty damn hard to type. It's exacerbated by the heat of the computer so I can do stuff when I've just turned it on but after a while it's basically unusable. I'll be building a new PC some time in april but until then my ability to type shit is pretty limited.

Until further notice I'm giving blanket permission to the community to work on the Entombed and edit their page, especially in terms of this new Terra and Mars stuff. I'll still be reading the threads but I can't post regularly enough and deeply enough to be fair to you guys.

>> No.38850409

Seeing as LCK also speaks rules, let's look at the draft for Voidy

>>38838392
>Psychic Hood
Not sure that exists in 30k (note that the Librarians don't get it).

>Epilogue
This is a bit of a mess. Rending will only really help a S8 weapon on AP, and I'm not sure that's in the Voidwatcher's idiom. Shred is a bit of overkill but OK. Force and Soulblaze is going to be incredibly niche.

Really, Epilogue should have a unique rule, not just a grab-bag of USRs.

>Warp Binder
This is fine but it should clarify that he selects rather than generates and whether he can take from more than one discipline.

>Runes of Fate
Probably more trouble than it's worth. I'd be more inclined to let him call for a re-roll of the Warp Charge roll.

>Sire of the Black Augurs
I'm not sure he can, actually.

>>38850246
You could perhaps give him the option to "wind up" and lay out a single destroyer attack, in case he does end up fighting a Knight or whatever.

Although it's a bit off the mark, the Nurgle Bane rule would be more easily worded as an advantage against the Life Bringers and all Daemons. (Also, as currently worded, it only affects Daemons because Shred & D don't play together.)

>> No.38851165

>>38838040
>How much more unusual?
This much: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Knight_Houses_(Hektor_Heresy)#Abdul_al-Sherar
Haven't considered points, but I don't think you'd get much change out of 800.

>> No.38852511

Bump.

>> No.38853222

>>38851165

Those stats are pretty…impressive. That’s not even Knight Level. That’s a Melee version of a Warhound Titan. It has the same hull points, Voids. It should probably be closer to a Knight in power then a Titan, because at the moment it’s pretty much a Gimped Warhound.

Also I did a short section on Abdul al-Sherar's sefvice with Accolon on their section of the page. Can you check it to make sure I didn;t get anything wrong there?

Finally here's a possible picture for Forgeworld Al-Sherar. Not sure if it fits, but I see Al-Sherar as largely desert, a bit like Arrakis if it was a Forgeworld.

>> No.38853381

>>38853222
Knights are thirty to forty feet tall, Warhounds are about forty-five feet tall. The distinction between the two is basically the kit and speciality - Knights are relatively agile melee platforms while Titans are heavy weapons machines incapable of normally engaging troops in close combat. Although Lord of Bones is something between the two, that's the point.

>Abdul in service of Accolon
Seems fine.

>image
What's the license on it?

>> No.38853735

>>38853381

>What's the license on it?

It's from here.

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Desert-Planet-281064358

>> No.38855882

>>38853735
Hmm. I decided to repurpose another picture for Al-Sherar's page (under construction at http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Al-Sherar), but might use the desert image for Iteru.

>> No.38856586

Also, here's a picture of what Rosskar could look like from Orbit, because it hasn't got an orbital picture. I want to distinguish it from Tisenjoch.

>> No.38857900

>>38856586
>I want to distinguish it from Tisenjoch.
Don't gotta worry about that anymore...

>> No.38858453

In my boredom I made an OW regiment for the Markian Corps. Anyone care to see?

>> No.38858474

>>38858453
Sure.

>> No.38858521

>>38858453
I am an Only War autist so expect some flak if you fuck up.

I mean yeah sure go ahead. Buddy. Pal. Guy.

>> No.38858689

>>38857900

You never know. I kind of hope that at some point some of the dead ideas will resurrect themselves in a new form or way. We have two gaps that can be filled, after all, and I personally hope they are after the 18 main legions are finished.

Does anyone else dislike the idea of the Lost Legions? They’ve always felt to me like a yawning hole in the lore, a visible gap that no-one will ever fill in. I know they exist so you can make your own, but we’re already making our own, why leave two more holes there? In our case having them as lost means we need to explain who destroyed them (My guess is either the Crimson Teeth, Sons of Fire or possibly Steel Marshalls), why they were destroyed and where the excess went (My guess is the Heralds absorbed the Lost Legions, like in older fluff we had).

>> No.38858722

>>38858521

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuQK6t2Esng

>> No.38858773

>>38858474
>Homeworld: Imperial World(1)
>Commanding Officer: Circumspect(2)
>Regiment Type: Line Infantry(2)
>Doctrines: Sharpshooters(4), Augmetics(2)

>Modifiers: +3 Willpower,+3 Fellowship,+3 Strength,-3 Intelligence(The cost of being Line infantry)
>Starting Aptitude: Ballistic Skill
>Starting Skills: Athletics
>Starting Talents: Rapid Reload, Foresight, Deadeye Shot
>Blessed Ignorance, Kill the Mutant
>Favored Weapons: Lasgun, Mountain Gun

I sorta want to make one for each planet, but I'm not entirely-Nah, why not.

>> No.38858851

>>38858773

Well, the Dolsene Rifles are Space Israelis, so that's a place to start from.

>> No.38858993

>>38858851
I meant each world in the pact, and then one for Ranc's Grand Corps. And then one for Goda.

>> No.38859091

>>38858993

Goda are Knights, not Imperial Infantry. Unless you;re talking about their retainers.

Also you made House Walkur, did you ever see the Accolon Character who was liked to them, Grimir?

>> No.38859229

>>38859091
>Goda are Knights
Their retainers, yeah.

>Did you ever see the Accolon character who was liked to them, Grimir?
No. I'll look at that in a minute after my laptop restarts.

>> No.38859342

>>38858773
Proper balance of useful crunch and fluff options. All looking goo-
>Sharpshooters
Get the fuck out.

>> No.38859441

>>38859342
>Triggered for some reason
What have I done?

>> No.38859499

>>38859441
I have ran Only War 16 times. 12 of those were oneshots. 2 were mini-campaigns(2 to 8 sessions), 2 were full campaigns.

All the regiments that were homebrewed had Sharpshooters. It's the second most strong choice with only chameleon cloak being more bullshit.

>> No.38859584

>>38859499
I just chose that because the Markian Corps can shoot good. In hindsight Well-Provisioned is also fluffy, if no more so.

I've honestly never played any 40k game before. I'm mostly in it for the fluff.

>> No.38859832

Lemartian sappers
>Homeworld: Mining Colony(3)
>CO: Fixed(1)
>Type: Siege Infantry(2)
>Doctrines: Hardened Fighters(2), Demolitions(3)

>Modifiers: +6 Toughness, +3 Perception,+3 Weapon Skill, -3 intelligence
>Starting Aptitude:
>Starting Skills: Command, Tech-Use
>Starting Talents: Nerves of Steel, Street Fighting
>Acclimated to Darkness
>Resistance(Cold) or Resistance(Heat) or Resistance(Poisons)
>Tunnel Rats

>> No.38859865

>>38859584
I made a start on Al-Sherar at:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Al-Sherar

How badly are they going to get on with Ghalhal? I'm not sure if you've considered Ghalhal's faith, but we could work backwards on it.

>> No.38859904

Writing these again on the PS4 is tiresome. I'll post them on 1d4chan whenever I feel like it.

>> No.38859917

>>38858689
>Does anyone else dislike the idea of the Lost Legions?
I'm OK with it.

>who destroyed them
Almost certainly the Marines Justicar.

>absorbed by
Yeah, Heralds is fine.

>> No.38860012

>>38859865
I've thought about their faith, but I can't decide on ambivalence, esoteric belief, or ultra-conservatism.

>> No.38860024

>>38858689
we could resurrect the machine-crazy primarch idea

>> No.38860080

>>38858689
I've already formulated plans for a lost legion involving the Morkai.

>> No.38860854

>>38860080
Well, it kinda sorta coulda been a lost legion. It's complicated.

>> No.38861136

>>38860024

Make the Mastodontii one of the Lost Legions.

I still kinda miss em

>> No.38861179

>>38861136
They'll become a warband (or chapter).

>> No.38861855

>>38860012
Hmm. Well, we could settle the Forge World relations on realpolitik. Perhaps Ghalhal tacks between Mars and Al-Sherar, using their rivalries to keep its own relative independence?

>> No.38864033

>>38850215
>Storm bolter with relentless
Those are assault 2 and do not exist in 30k.

You mean a badass combi-bolter like Dorns?

>> No.38866932

>>38861136

I'd like to see them make a return. Before the cull I was eagerly waiting for Alex to take them on, and would still like to work with him on them if ever we decide to fill in the two Lost Legion gaps, as he can temper my habit of hugging the canon too hard like a security blanket and his ideas are incredibly good ones.

>> No.38867048

>>38866932
I'm not sure that Alex needs more Legions on his to-do list.

>> No.38867555

>>38867048
Lumey, any differences in how Darius would respond to Jeron the Farseer of Arkendar in his current incarnation as Shakya Vardhana? Because you said Octullus would be the best bet. And. Well.

>> No.38867641

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Craftworld_Arkendar

I should not be up right now. I did however, do a thing. I want everyone to read the last bit here especially in regards to Uriel. I hipe I did his portrayal justice.

Do not take anything here as permanent, anything can be changed upon request.

>> No.38867661

>>38867048

I was being presumptive, in a 'If' kind of way. And that presupposes that he'd have finished with the Sof and 'Phracts by then, or at least the SoF. The 'Phracts and Mastodons are pretty much designed to be the yin and yang of each other, so writing them together makes some sense.

>> No.38867928 [DELETED] 

>>38867641
>http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Craftworld_Arkendar

You will need to check it for spelling and grammar errors, although to my eyes it was mostly things like:
>previously forced back struck returned,
>struck returned
ie it looks like you edited the word then forgot to remove the old one or something.

A lot of parts didn't seem to make sense to me, probably just needed expanding on, and ome parts feel awkwardly worded.

>Supernove to engulf several systems
>several systems
Check with Arelex, but I'm 99% sure a supernova of even the largest sun we know of irl would engulf several systems.
Planets? Sure.
But systems are a significant distance from eachother (I mean with current tech it takes ~2.5 years to get to Mars...)
Distances are that great, space is aptly named, as the majority of it is just that: empty vacuum space.

And space is full of radiation anyway - its our Atmosphere that protects us from much of the radiation we would otherwise take from stars

>Using Vardhana
It seems risky.
Either Vardhana is inscrutable, and thus you'd not know for sure if he was the safest bet.
Or, he isn't inscrutable, just very hard to figure out, but possible to Eldar and therefore potentially others.

Aubrey actually seems a more likely fit for the one to approach - he can be *observed* to openly accept sentient xenos.

Also in the (I believe rewritten OU fluff) Eldrad warns Fulgrim of all people, and he knows about Horus' treachery, not about Lorgar who starts it.

I think Jeron should tie more to Hektor rather than Uriel, seeing as its Hektor's rebellion, not Uriels.

Ie have him seer Hektor as splitting the Imperium apart, and approaching Aubrey, or Crom if you want to mirror the OU's "visit the slaanesh guy".
Truth is, just about all the primarchs are *likely* to kill an eldar on sight, but Fulgrim didn't, so its reasonable to assume you could have him approach anyone.
Just them being a traitor or future traitor is better.

>> No.38867954

>>38867641
>http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Craftworld_Arkendar

You will need to check it for spelling and grammar errors, although to my eyes it was mostly things like:
>previously forced back struck returned,
>struck returned
ie it looks like you edited the word then forgot to remove the old one or something.

A lot of parts didn't seem to make sense to me, probably just needed expanding on, and some parts feel awkwardly worded.

>Supernove to engulf several systems
>several systems
Check with Arelex, but I'm 99% sure a supernova of even the largest sun we know of IRL *wouldn't* engulf several systems.

Planets?
Sure.

But systems are a significant distance from each other (I mean with current tech it takes ~2.5 years to get to Mars...)
Distances are that great; space is aptly named, as the majority of it is just that: empty vacuum space.
If I remember correctly, out Sun would go supernova and not actually reach Mars, stopping some (relatively) short distance before it.
Earth is gone though.

>Using Vardhana
It seems risky.
Either Vardhana is truly inscrutable, and thus you'd not know for sure if he was the safest bet to approach.

Or he isn't inscrutable, just very hard to figure out, but possible to Eldar and therefore potentially others.

Aubrey actually seems a more likely fit for the one to approach - he can be *observed* to openly accept sentient xenos

Also in the (I believe rewritten OU fluff) Eldrad warns Fulgrim of all people, and he knows about Horus' treachery, not about Lorgar who starts it.

I think Jeron should tie more to Hektor rather than Uriel, seeing as its Hektor's rebellion, not Uriels.

Ie have him seer Hektor as splitting the Imperium apart, and approaching Aubrey, or Crom if you want to mirror the OU's "visit the slaanesh guy".
Truth is, just about all the primarchs are *likely* to kill an eldar on sight, but Fulgrim didn't, so its reasonable to assume you could have him approach anyone.
Just them being a traitor or future traitor is better.

>> No.38867956

>>38867928
Eldrad actually saw a rebellion with Horus at the lead but the wrong Primarchs in toe. Fulgrim was going to be like the Emperor's Praetorian in his version of events. I had it be in Jeron's mind that no matter what happened, it all tied back to Uriel in SOME way.

Sorta like the conspiracy theorist who actually figures out who's at the top of it all. Everything.
And fails to be able to do anything with that knowledge, either acting too late, or the opponent just has too much power over him for anything to truly change.

Jeron is a mix of both outcomes.
Uriel at the moment has little to no overall tying to the rest of the story. He does nothing beyond find Chaos and corrupt Aubrey. Hell he doesn't even do that personally.

>> No.38867998

>>38867956
>Uriel at the moment has little to no overall tying to the rest of the story. He does nothing beyond find Chaos and corrupt Aubrey. Hell he doesn't even do that personally.

Well I do genuinely appreciate what you are trying to do with that then, but as of the rewrite the Children and Uriel are much more tied to the story.

They raze Lazarus, and attack the Scribes early on.
They were always doing Paramar, they play a minor role facilitating and helping the IR get onto Mars too.
Oh and they're at Terra now.
I imagine Uriel, shapeshifted to some other unrecognisable form, gets transformed back into his regular primarchUriel state by TZ during a minor duel with someone, having his duplicity and real allegiance revealed as a joke by TZ in a highly awkward and unhelpful moment.


You could have him approach Uriel if you really wanted Uriel involved, for maximum dramatic irony, but I think it should be Hektor and someone else like Crom or Aubrey in the story in all honesty.

>> No.38868043

>>38867998
>They raze Lazarus, and attack the Scribes early on.
What
>They were always doing Paramar, they play a minor role facilitating and helping the IR get onto Mars too.
We haven't talked about that in length yet about Astartes even being on Mars so I'd like it if you could slow-
>Oh and they're at Terra now.
WHAT

>> No.38868070

>>38867998

Aside from Paramar, that's all news to me.

Uriel is supposed to be the one who corrupts Aubrey. That would never work if Uriel is the one who purges Lazarus. Is Uriel trusted enough to be the Emperor's executioner there?

Also, have you read about the proposed head of the Dark Mechanicum above and commented on it?

>> No.38868135

>>38868043
Have you not been following the threads?

Paramar was something from way back when, we never got to talking about it in more than a cursory way.

>Razing Lazarus
we talked about this... do you not remember?

>Mars
is still up in the air, but as the threads have stood, it was something me and Merrill talked over a way back, I reposted it to the thread, and you yourself commented on it.
The 13th only play a tiny role in that, mainly getting the IR in, and having a tiny handful of their own men down there too

>Terra
Well Lumey has been talking about all the 4 chosen legions being on Terra.
The whole "Board Game" thing.
So yeah.
And with the legion cuts, Terra was quite significantly reduced in scale. So the CoA and the Lions are as I understand, being sent in now to flesh it out, thematically as well as numerically.

>>38868070
>Uriel is supposed to be the one who corrupts Aubrey.
He is.
He takes the tarellians away with one hand, on the *Emperors* orders, then gives back with the other: the Cyfecti.
The Cyfecti then corrupt Aubrey.

Aubrey would know Uriel was behind it, but only after the fact.

>That would never work if Uriel is the one who purges Lazarus.
It is if Uriel puts on a good show of "I don't enjoy this brother, but my hands are tied."

It also softens A up for Hektor down the line, as well as for chaos by driving a wedge between Empy and Aubs - which is actually a real espionage tactic. (A simple one too - divide and conquer)

>Is Uriel trusted enough to be the Emperor's executioner there?
Uriel and his legion are *the* most trustworthy legion in the GC.
They're utterly selfless and always help others, purely out of generosity and brotherly spirit. Or so it seemed

>Also, have you read...
not yet. I skimmed it, but I really need to be working on my rewrite before weighing in on stuff.
I only read Alex's thing because it specifically related to Uriel.
I will read it and weigh in if I get at least a section or 2 done.

>> No.38869095

I've been looking over the Unification Wars' numerous factions for inspiration for my writing.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Unification_Wars#Techno-Barbarian_States
(There seems to be mistakes over Albia - they name UK in it for a start, when that has 2 separate entries...)

Quite a few legions are named in the conquerings though, although not all.

>Orioc
In our AU it looks like the Crimson Teeth are involved in Orioc and/or the surrounding region

>Caucasus wastes
Quite a foe.
Their own version of Thunder Warriors, and psyker covens as well as tech from age of strife.

required *6* proto-legions in the OU to take it
so lots of people can be involved here.

But 1 legion spearheaded the attack and secured the gates to an important stronghold.
(Salamanders in OU).

10k Thunder Warriors and scores of other troops tried and died taking it previously.

Could be good for a bunch of legions

>Boetia (Greece)
Agree to join Emps in a 150 year transition, then renege on the deal, clinging to power.
Legion sent in to force compliance

>Urartu
the final state to fall during the Uni Wars by force.
The "last battle of the Thunder Warriors"
(They were really culled, possibly immediately after completing this campaign)

>Ursh
Sorcery heavy and the most powerful of all the states.
Heavily implied to be corrupted by Chaos.

>Hy Brazil
Jungle warfare anyone?

>Yndonesian Bloc
Joined Empy without a fight, but did so by revolution - overthrowing its despot.
Legions involved in supporting this?

>Albia
had proto-dreads and impressed Emps so much he recruited them diplomatically after a bloody fight

>Pan Pacific Empire
a big threat with Narthan Dume leading them

Post-Uni Wars one of its enclaves, Vhnori, rebelled.
Empy didn't just put the rebellion down.
He brutalised it beyond reason as a message to others.
Could be good for some legions
Features a hidden-conspiracy of Gene-splicers, psykers, and warlords called the Crimson Walkers

NL used in OU to send a message

>> No.38869149

Arctic Campaign shortened:
The Siege of the Caltaxian Super-fortress remains a notable even in the legion's early history for being the first time in over a decade that the legion acted as one. Combating a foe largely immune to their primary strategies of mis-direction and ambush, the legion was initially forced to engage the Caltaxian cyborgs directly and wage bloody battle on the automatons.

It was Captain Olakhol (link) who determined the weakness in the Caltaxian military lay in their officers and directed the 19th's focus towards their capture and elimination. Four months into the conflict legion infiltrators planted the remains of these captured officers around the entrances of the fortress overnight, making sure to make their uniforms and insignias as visible as possible. Then proceeded to execute officers within sight of the walls on a bi-daily basis, slitting their throats and burning the bodies for the defenders to see.

The arctic peoples replied with a major assault towards the Imperial lines, snow-capable vehicles, cyb-soldiers, and massive bionically enhanced ursines making the majority of the attackers ranks. Ready for their assault and eager to end the conflict, Olakhol led the counter charge against the Caltaxian army. By his actions the battle was a clear victory, allowing the Imperials to end the conflict within the next several weeks. The fortress was preserved and later repurposed into an Imperial holding.

However, despite the success Olakhol himself suffered terrible injuries forcing him to be interred within a Contemptor Dreadnought. (Records indicate he later met Camaxtli).

>>38869095
Crimson Teeth's involvement.
>Vhnori rebellion and brutal oppression
Major participation
>Hy Brazil
participates
>Orioc
Major participation. There will be other city-states in the area.
>Caucasus wastes
Minor participation, depending on the date. The legion would either act as a whole or in immediate support of other legions it was seconded to.

>> No.38869192

And just found this
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Unification_Wars_(Hektor_Heresy)

So Lumey has gone ahead and chalked out a good starting point for us to develop into

So more or less just keep it in mind, but otherwise ignore me I guess.

>> No.38869553

>>38861855
Good idea. But how would they use that to maintain independence?
>>38867954
>Supernova
Not a supernova maybe, but a hypernova could theoretically throw out enough material to burn worlds in the surrounding systems.
Of course, those systems would have enough warning.

>> No.38870504

>>38867555
The Vardhana is not much removed from Darius. One thing that really gets downplayed by fans of the 40k universe is that the Emperor's policy towards Xenos is thoroughly justified. There's a tendency to look at the 40k set-up and say, "look, they're bullies!" But the Great Crusade starts with humanity scattered and ruthlessly exploited by Xenos. It's not about going out and killing people because they're different, it's about ending the vile oppressors of humanity.

I realise that this is a problem for Aubrey the Grey's credibility in the eyes of the Imperium, but at present I get the impression that most of the Primarchs take him for a fool.

>>38867641
I think there are timeline problems here. The Birth of Slaanesh is pretty much the starter's signal for the Great Crusade, but Arkendar seems to have time to ride out the death-cry of their race, discover that humans aren't all that bad, and then come back to help out the Imperium before that happened.

Also, wouldn't Arkendar take the conflict between the Imperium and the Xenos (I want to say Eldar, but can't find my source) of the outer solar system as a bit of a sign that Things Won't Go Well?

>>38869553
They'd greet proposals from either side with, "What you propose is highly logical, except that Mars/Al-Sherar would..."

>> No.38870800

>>38867641
>>38867954

You're thinking of a Red Giant star, physically expanding its outer layers to reach past Earth. It's possible our Sun will engulf Earth, but almost certainly stop before Mars, though there are many red supergiants with outer envelopes in the Jupiter-Saturn region.

Regarding supernovae, it's hard to burn worlds with them, unless those solar systems are fairly close by. Bleeding out the energy over the area of an expanding sphere rapidly degrades it.

That said, if you're within about 50 LY of a supernova, you will suffer greatly, and half the planet will be irradiated to a degree, at least strong enough to temporarily damp out the ozone layer and start causing mutations and shit.

You won't get anything like a planetary inferno or whatever, without being quite a bit closer, like 10 LY away. And it'll be a very fine balance between close enough to burn, but far enough not to be simply destroyed.

So, it's somewhat unlikely, but if there were multiple systems fairly tightly packed in around a supernova star, there could be multiple worlds at least damaged to one degree or another.

Supernovae are not like bombs going off. There's no shockwave shoving things around like a nuke in atmosphere. Rather, it's more like a REALLY powerful pulse of heat. But, that pulse is also moving fast, so it's gone quickly as well.

>> No.38870846

>>38869553
Hypernova is irrelevant. The actual ejected material from a supernova is irrelevant in terms of mass and impact, since it's scattered across a huge volume. At most, close by worlds will get a dusting of exotic radioactives and heavy elements, tens of thousands of years after the event, since they're traveling below lightspeed.

All that matters is the radiation pulse.

>> No.38871681

is it known in our AU that the Thunder Warriors are culled by Emps. Or are we going with the they just happened to "die gloriously to the last man" approach?

OU has both but the former is 'what really happened'

I'm writing the 13th in as dealing with Urartu alongside the Thunder Warriors.
Going to hint that the 13th may have been involved in or facilitated the culling on Empys orders.
That okay with you guys?

>> No.38871824

>>38870504
Ghalhal: Planet of Playaz. I like it.

>> No.38871939

Isn't it a tad suspicious that I made enlightened generalist space-French with close ties with space-Arab forge worlds, like Lumey?

>> No.38872310

>>38871681
Sure, why not?

Thunderwarriors gotta die, lets make it badass.

>> No.38872848

>>38870504
You're right. I was super tired when I wrote that. Will be editing soon.

Can I get a comment to Uriel about his 'proposals'?

>>38870800
>>38870846
Always interesting with your sciencey ways, Arelex.

>> No.38873066

>>38870504
>Also, wouldn't Arkendar take the conflict between the Imperium and the Xenos (I want to say Eldar, but can't find my source) of the outer solar system as a bit of a sign that Things Won't Go Well?

Not sure they were Eldar. It's not mentioned anywhere what they were specifically.

Alien invaders were flushed from the moons of Saturn and Jupiter and their wretched enslaved human inhabitants repatriated to Earth, the once-human creatures of the Neptunian Deeps were exterminated without mercy, and the baleful false-world of Sedna at Sol's edge-light was boiled away to vapour under the guns of the new-forged war fleet.
Betrayal p18

>> No.38873093

Is this still open to new contributers?

I'm very interested in making xenos factions or alternate human empires to help flesh out the universe (I wouldn't wnat to step on all your toes) but do you have enough of those already?

>> No.38873516

>>38871939
Seeing as we've dropped Ciban IV and Markia in the same subsector, they're probably sprung from the same stock.

Similarly, Ghalhal might have been colonised by Al-Sherar, but bitterly resent any claims of superiority on that basis. (The Kabeer al-Mufteen would struggle to argue against this, as he plays the same card against Mars.)

>>38873093
>Is this still open to new contributers?
Absolutely.

Xenos factions of the great alien powers are easy to slot in. Lesser alien races shouldn't be a problem. Alternate human empires would have to be fairly modest (probably no more than a subsector), otherwise we're going to end up getting crowded.

The Imperium isn't entirely mapped out, either. Very little has been done with the Mechanicum, beyond a couple of forge worlds and a few stubs on Titan Legions. The Imperial Army is so fathomlessly huge that you could add a few army groups and nobody would notice (so long as they aren't too outlandish). Even the Space Marines have space in the Successor Chapters and supporting cast, although this requires more co-ordination with the existing material.

>> No.38874161

>>38873516

My first idea is twofold; a Xenos Empire and an Imperial Army group that is tasked with fighting it.

The Xenos Empire are aliens resembling octopi. They live in the deep sea (I don't have an explanation for how they developed technology down there yet) and are incredibly xenophobic; they don't see any other species as being truly sentient.

Over a few thousand years they've turned a lot of planets into oceanic worlds, ideal habitats for themselves, caring little if the worlds are inhabited. They bombard worlds with comets and other water ice gathered from the interstellar space; since this heats up planets, they typically do it on cooler worlds or cool the planets with solar shields.

This constant development of worlds is partially due to population pressure and partially religious. Their naturally fast breeding has led to said population pressure and has aso produced their callousness towards lives.

The Imperium would encounter these and have trouble shifting them; the Squids wage religious war on the Imperium, but the Imperium (despite not wanting their worlds) can't bombard them from orbit; mass driver weapons don't really work through water, and most Squid cities are under several kilometers of ocean.

In come the Army. A task force formed from peoples of several minor human states that accepted reunion with the Imperium, they include the Veloshi Abyssan Rangers.

Velosh is a watery world which has enormous reserves of minerals, as well as promethium reserves. One of the human nations used it as a major mining colony, and as such most of it's inhabitants were used to life underwater. Once linked into the Imperium, the other worlds got their supplies elsewhere, so the tens of thousands of skilled diver operators had only one recourse; join the Imperial Army.

First slated to be boarding crews in naval combat, they were soon reassigned to attack the Squid's empire, in a long slow campaign in the darkness and pressure of dozens of ocean worlds.

>> No.38874433

>>38874161
The Xenos sound fine, but - the Army wouldn't be sent to fight these guys, at the very least, not alone. Unlike in the 40k era, when the Imperial Guard is the primary combat arm of the Imperium, during the Great Crusade the Space Marine Legions are at the heart of things.

You could definitely find a place for the Rangers as a support element - even at the Great Crusade's height, there are "only" a few million Space Marines - but they'd be in tow of one of the Legions. (Likely candidates would include the Steel Marshals and Stone Men, but I could also see the Thunder Kings leading the charge.)

Also, as a point of development, the skills of the Rangers would probably make them quite easily adapted to warfare in the Void of space.

>> No.38874981

I've been reading the Hektor Heresy and the wiki during my breaks at work, and I like all the progress made. All this writefaggotry is fantastic. I have a question though that I'm a little bit confused about though.

What are the Knights of Justice? Are they Legion, and if so, who is their Primarch?

The seem to appear on some lists and not on others. It's a bit weird.

>> No.38875090

>>38874981
The Knights of Justice were an air-cav assault Legion with a Knightly theme. We had three Legions with a Knightly theme and their anon didn't give us much to differentiate them. Attempts to flesh them out always fell flat. They were integrated into the story only by being crushed on Istvaan and purging Lazerus. They were removed and their elements added to the Crusaders. Now the Crusaders have been removed due to the same exact problems and their toys split up among the Silver Cataphracts, the Heralds of Hektor, and the Steel Marshals.

Refer to the main list of Legions on the front page posted in the OP above. Those are all the ones 'in'. The rest will be chopped up or used as Chapters and/or warbands.

So expect a Knights of Justice Chapter in the future, but not a Legion.

>> No.38875111

>>38871681
It's OK but the writing needs to be more direct. I've made one edit of that section (revert if you like) to show how you could make the point in shorter, sharper sentences. Some of the continuity points about what the Sacred Band (SINGULAR) was and when it ended have also been cleared up. See:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Children_of_Astarot#The_13th_Squad_of_the_Sacred_Band

>>38874981
>What are the Knights of Justice?
They were a Legion, but they were removed due to over-lapping with other Legion themes and their lack of development. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

>> No.38875146

>>38875090
>>38875111
Alright, cool. Just wanted to make sure, because they seemed neat but they also seemed like they got Stalin'd out of existence.

Guess I'll go back to having the Silver Cataphracts as my favourite legion, then.

>> No.38875196

>>38875146
Care to explain why exactly?

>> No.38875284 [SPOILER] 

>>38875196
Robed beakies that fight wars of attrition, wearing silver armor, using awesome tactics, strike me as grimdark good guys who don't see themselves as good guys at all, and are just in general fairly appealing.

They're basically the reasonable marines if 'writefagging about the reasonable marines' didn't turn into... Yeah.

>> No.38875335

>>38874981
Come to think of it, can you recall which pages you saw the KoJ on? I know they're mentioned on the Hektor Heresy page (and boy that is the least of the problems there), but did you spot them elsewhere?

>> No.38875458

>>38875335
Silver Cataphracts, in fact.

>> No.38875496

>>38875284
The Silver Cataphracts will be going under a total rewrite. But the core of it is that they use an excess of men and material to crush their opponents. They focused on combined arms warfare that leans towards mechanized. For example, when deploying their main force will be half armor, and the rest be infantry, air, artillery, support, all dedicated to protecting the advance of the assault. It's Soviet Deep Army doctrine, in a nutshell. They use humans as meatshields for their advances and bombard any planet that looks like it wouldn't be worth deploying on. All of their actions is taken with grim determination for the survival of the species. For its growth and development. They will gladly commit any crime to bring about this goal.

"At Any Cost" will be their creed.

You'll be seeing more of them, too, as they replace the Crusaders as the Legion tasked with defending Sol. Constantly coming to blows with the Traitor armies sallying forth on the warmaster's bidding.

>> No.38875545

>>38875458
OK, thanks. As Alex has explained in >>38875496, the Cats are due for redevelopment. Hopefully the things you like will be expanded on.

If not, there's always Winged Victory.

>> No.38875608

>>38875545
I've barely even scratched the surface of the chapters yet, but if I find anything that scratches both my Imperial Fists/Loyalist Thousand Sons itch, that'll probably take the cake.

There should totally be a chapter called the Aquamarines, also.

>> No.38875730

>>38875608
Steel Marshals and Eyes of the Emperor.

Aquamarines are a good idea, we should totally do that and call their first Chapter Master "Robert Williams".

>> No.38875856

>>38872848
I've got some things to do, but I can get on irc in an hour or so if you want?

Or we can discuss them over the thread if you'd rather.

>>38875111
>It's OK but the writing needs to be more direct.
It did feel wordy in places. I started making mini-edits but stopped myself, felt I should probably come back and check it tomorrow with fresh eyes and edit it right.

But you're rewrite is rather helpful. Don't hate me, but I might expand a tiny bit in places, but otherwise I think your edits improve things so I'll keep them.

Thanks for taking the time to read it.

>>38875730
>Aquamarines
>Robert Williams
I approve of that

>> No.38876030

>>38875856
I don't have any problems with you adding copy. Mainly I wrote that to just show how you can "cut to the quick". As a general rule, you need to keep your sentences short. Pretend you're writing to a senior civil servant, or to a child with ADD.

>> No.38877085

>>38874433

The wiki page for the Imperial Army suggests that they would engage in large scale actions on their own. Is it the idea that there's quite a large Xeno Empire that meas that the Legions would need to be called in?

What about during the Heresy itself? Would battles against Xenos have continued, or would all available resources been moved towards fighting the Traitors?

The stuff about boarding parties meant Void based operations; the Rangers were originally going to be such troops, and then Command realised they needed aquatic specialists.

If it'd be better, I could have the Squids controlling only a half-dozen worlds, enough to make them a nuisance but too small to bother a Legion detachment with. Then I could focus more on the Abyssals being recalled, maybe mid-way through the campaign against the Squids, to participate in the battles of the Heresy - including against Traitor Astartes.

>> No.38877235

>>38877085
>The wiki page for the Imperial Army suggests that they would engage in large scale actions on their own. Is it the idea that there's quite a large Xeno Empire that meas that the Legions would need to be called in?
The Imperial Army is utterly secondary to the Legions. If any meaningful resistance is encountered, the Legions are called in. Though unfinished, the Pacification of the Harakien Sector is a good example of this. On their own, the Imperial Army even with a surge of reinforcements would have a hard time fighting the Eldar. With the Winged Victory Legion's arrival however, it's pretty much decided from then on.

The Imperial Army's Expedition Fleets preformed actions thought not worth the time of a Legion. If a Legion showed up, even the highest ranking IA officer was subordinate to mid-grade Space Marine officer. And no great initiatives happened without the backing and coordination of a higher authority, the most often times nearby ones being the Legions.

>What about during the Heresy itself? Would battles against Xenos have continued, or would all available resources been moved towards fighting the Traitors?
The latter. Pushes into Xenos space all but stopped for a few decades afterwards too.

>If it'd be better, I could have the Squids controlling only a half-dozen worlds
In a single system? Or in a subsector?

>> No.38877326

>>38877085
>>38877235
Alex's advice is generally good, but there is the option of having the Squids only just discovered at the end of the Great Crusade - then given a few decades to consider the threat of the Imperium and begin making inroads on the fragile frontier worlds. You could set up the Rangers to be part of the newly-minted Imperial Guard that confronts that threat.

>> No.38877329

>>38877235

Okay. The IA wiki entry says "Eventually as the Legions became ever more scattered and diluted across the stars, the Imperial Army took up the slack, being used to perform sieges, mass invasions and planetary pacifications separate from the Astartes Legions, using numbers and raw firepower to win the day. "

Presumably any large Xeno Empire would cause the Legions to be called in, but one or two worlds in the same system?

Or am I misunderstanding the wiki entry?

>> No.38877425

>>38877329
I think the wiki gloss is just wrong. It's basically copy-pasta from the 40k wiki article (which will be plagiarised from a GW/FW source), which reads:

>Although the Imperial Army was not as powerful as the Space Marine Legions under the Primarchs' command, the Imperial Army regiments were nevertheless useful additions to a Primarch's fighting strength. A Space Marine Legion often had hundreds of auxiliary Imperial Army regiments fighting under its command. These troops were used to reinforce the Space Marines and were frequently deployed in sieges, mass invasions and to garrison newly conquered worlds. The Imperial Army was rarely deployed within the home system of the regiments that comprised it. In fact, this was actively avoided by the Primarchs in command of these regiments to ensure that the soldiers' loyalties lay first and foremost with the individual Primarch and the Space Marine Legion to which they had been attached, and alongside which they fought.
(http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army)

We've never discussed diverging from the OU on that point, and I'm not sure why a contributor felt it necessary to write the gloss in that way.

>> No.38877760

>>38877235
On the subject of IA fighting with legios, didn't you want to work with me on something involving the Markian Corps and Bad Cats?

>> No.38877852

>>38877760
Before getting on to that, I just wanted to clear up some TL issues with the Corps. You have Nightkill going on "after the departure of Fifth Legion" - which would be right at the start of the Heresy. That actually makes a lot of sense, but it's left hanging in the current write-up.

>> No.38877857

>>38877760
I did, but currently I must finish the SoF because I know if I start on the SC now, I'll never get back to the SoF.

But let's talk shop. Fluff points.
My imagining was having this be the genesis of the VA and SC conflict, and the pushing of the Strelky to the fore.
The Silver Cataphracts use their Imperial Army as canon fodder, carelessly throwing away their lives almost needlessly to ensure limited Astartes casualties. Alexandri requests some of the Markian Pact to show Lumey that they can all get along. But blah blah blah stuff happens, resulting on nearly all the forces sent to the Legion being dead. This brings the VA and SC to blows, causing a massive rift to form between them forever.

Later, Konstantyn, Supreme Commander of Rosskar, patches up the wounds between Rosskans and the Pact.

>> No.38877991

>>38875856
>Aquamarines
>Robert Williams

What's the joke?

>> No.38878087

>>38877857
Ah.
>>38877852
I'll have to fix that somehow. Slow news?

How big is the period between the exile and the Heresy?

Maybe I'll just put it shortly before the exile. That's simpler.

>> No.38878120

>>38877425

Okay then.

>>38877326

I think I might use this idea. Although it does require them to not participate in actually fighting the heresy...

I'll think about it. Maybe I could write a story about the Rangers attacking a smaller Squid city, too small for a Legion detachment, during the invasion of the Squid's worlds, before getting called into fight during the Heresy and the horrors that resulted.

>> No.38878622

I'M BACK, BITCHES!

What'd I miss?

>> No.38878687

>>38878087
>How big is the period between the exile and the Heresy?
Months. It works, you probably just need to move the campaigns into the Heresy section - there were a few years when the Fifth and Antsar were basically gone and the news from the broader Imperium was - strange. It makes sense that the Markians and Cataegis helped to shore up Pacificus in that period.

>>38878120
The Rangers could probably get slaughtered in the Heresy, if you want.

>>38878622
Abdul al-Sherar, the Forge World that once enslaved him, and some other bits and pieces.

>> No.38878736

>>38878687
>The Rangers could probably get slaughtered in the Heresy, if you want.

I'm confused. I leave for 4 days and you guys are already killing my Legion off?

>> No.38878785

>>38878736
We thought it was what you would want.

No, actually, I was talking about the Abyssan Rangers of >>38874161.

Although the Iron Rangers do get killed a lot in the Heresy and Scouring.

Here's Abdul:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Knight_Houses_(Hektor_Heresy)#Abdul_al-Sherar

>> No.38878865

>>38878622
>pic
So Merrill is Steven Seagal now?

Is he going to get a campaign where his capital ship is taken hostage while he's cooking midnight snacks and then goes all Under Siege on them?

Also do you have an idea in your head of what Cell might look like? Or should I just try and surprise you?

>> No.38878973

>>38878865
>Merrill is Seagal
No, Merrill keeps his dignity.

>Cell
Not quite. But I do have pictures of the individual who inspired him. And his warpaint is black on the right side of his face, and red on the left.

>>38878785
>Although the Iron Rangers do get killed a lot in the Heresy and Scouring.
Is this new or old plans?

>> No.38879030

>>38878973
Old plans. EVERYONE gets killed a lot in the Heresy and Scouring.

>> No.38879066

>>38879030
Ah, here I figured you had some new invention of them being massacred.

>> No.38879096

>>38878973
>>38879030
>>38879066
What he's saying here is, the losses incurred in a conflict of 26 Legions is more widespread than 18. Everyone comes out bloodied. Void Angels are at the top because they have the hallowed status of 'least fucked'.

>> No.38879122

>>38879096
Oh, I realized.

>> No.38879150

>>38879096
>>38879030
Although, should we increase the numbers with fewer Legions?

>> No.38879155

>>38878973
>Cell
Care to share those pics?

Could do so over irc if easier/more convenient


>Weighing in on "Is this new or old plans?"

OU has the Ultra's go from 200k to something like 23k, and they only really get involved during the Scouring.

I believe the traitors fare a bit better, but then the legion wars fractures them up anyway so their numbers are kind of moot

>> No.38879195

>>38879096
>Void Angels are at the top because they have the hallowed status of 'least fucked'.
Just to be clear, that means they end up burying over four in five of their Battle Brothers. Another 3-5% are so badly injured that they can't fight again, ending up interred in Dreadnoughts, put into permanent care, or assigned to training duty.

>>38879150
We have significantly more marines than the OU. Several of the original Legions were much smaller than we'd first thought. (DAs are less than 50k, WS fewer than 20k.)

>> No.38879300

>>38879155

>> No.38879355

>>38879300
I don't know which is the more satisfying jumping conclusion here.

>Merrill is actually a badass war vet who has a shlocky love of warhammer and writes in his retirement
>Merrill is actually a grill who writes power fantasy fiction for shits.

>> No.38879403

>>38879155
>>38879300
It's funny you brought up the vietnam vibe, because the dude in question is a nam vet.

>> No.38879523

>>38879355
I'm not conceited enough to call myself badass, and I'm not retired. The guy in the picture is my kinda sorta adopted father. It's an odd situation.

>> No.38879680

>>38879523
So he's the Emperor?

>> No.38879779

>>38879680
Meh. More like Malcador.

>> No.38880145

>>38879779
The other thing that came up in your absence was a renewed interest in house rules for AU Primarchs. Drafts of the Voidwatcher (>>38838392), Roman Albrecht (>>38844762), Golgothos (>>38849599), and the Vardhana (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Eyes_of_the_Emperor#Lords_of_War) have all been contributed recently.

Rogerius Merrill when?

>> No.38880180

>>38878622
Is it just me, or are there actually slight differences in some of the pictures? Like, some of them "seem" angrier than others.

>> No.38880450

>>38880145
Someone said they had multiple Primarchs written up. Is Tiran Osoros one of them?

I don't play tabletop, so I'm not familiar enough with how things work to stat him.

>> No.38880499

>>38880145
I have it a shot a while ago. Merrill was...not great. I tried too hard to have him be both op and weak defensively.

>>38880180
I think it's your subconscious being influenced by the titles. I get the same feeling and I made it by copy/pasting the image several times.

>> No.38880657

>>38880450
I don't think that there's a Tiran rules sketch. Lore might have some ideas but I think he's still playing 6e and doesn't like inventing new rules.

>>38880499
As we chalk out more of his brothers it might become easier.

>> No.38880894

>>38880657
I was also trying to make him lethal in the first round of assault and a beast in cover, but rather easily killed in the open and susceptible to tarpits.

>> No.38880969

>>38880894
*for a Primarch

>> No.38881008

>>38880145
Someday I'd like to revisit Arelex's stats, since he was never fully finished, and now there's a lot more info about who he and his Legion are.

>> No.38881343

>>38880894
Hatred/Zealous, high I, maybe bonus attacks/S on the first round, Stealth.... that's not really too difficult to do, even without giving the guy unique rules.

>>38881008
Yeah, he's a bit Perturabo-minus at the moment. Admittedly, that means he'd be cheap.

>> No.38881613

>>38881343
I'll post what I had when I get home. He had initiative for days.

>> No.38881629

>>38881343
Idk if after all the cuts that we have a "toughness" Primarch (Or if there ever WAS a HH Primarch specialized in that stat), but I always envisioned Arelex as that.

He, like his Legion, goes through some rough shit, but always pulls themselves back together eventually. Also, his armor is pretty good.

I liked the idea of him giving the Legionnaires various "higher-level" weapons, but like you say, that was a bit boring, though logical.

Once upon a time, he might have had some more interesting weapons, but not in his current iteration.

Perhaps the most fitting thing for him, besides stats, is some sort of Leadership/Initiative debuff for the enemy army, as long as the enemy is not Chaos or Daemons or whatever, since he's all about out-planning the enemy. I know that's kind of the same thing that one Necron character does, but it's all I could readily think of for a "Marine +1" type Primarch, of a "Marine +1" type Legion.

Arelex is an all rounder, though with a slight tilt towards ranged combat, and away from melee. And that does tend to lead towards Ultramarine type "boringness".

Perhaps he could be just an above-average, but very efficient character, in regards to individual stats. IDK.

>> No.38881790

>>38881629
>Toughness Primarch
Hektor, Johannes, Onyx - all guys who don't have profiles.

>I liked the idea of him giving the Legionnaires various "higher-level" weapons, but like you say, that was a bit boring, though logical.
That bit is relatively good. The Perturabo reference is that he has (no surprise) text copy-and-pasted from the Iron Warriors' Primarch.

I never got the impression that Arelex was a particularly brilliant battlefield general - certainly not up there with Hektor, Gaspard, Alexandri, or Cromwald. Even the Vardhana and the Voidwatcher would probably be more effective, although they both cheat pretty hard. As I understood it, Arelex aimed to the "first-est with the most-est" and that would sort out any Cunning Ruses that the enemy employed.

>> No.38881959

>>38881790

It's possible, since I'm not a tabletop player, that I'm looking at him the wrong way.

Arelex the leader, the strategist, the logistical planner, is not necessarily the same Arelex that actually takes the field.

On a smaller scale, Arelex would maybe be the "Defensive" Primarch. Insanely hard to actually kill (because Archaeotech Dark Age armor, natural Primarchiness, and force of will), though not an offensive powerhouse. Someone who buffs his own army and (maybe) debuffs the enemy's army, and who basically provides the lynchpin for an "Attrition" style fight.

When Arelex is on the field, the War Scribes, to steal from the Orkish, "Get stuck in". And don't ever, ever, ever, ever bend, break, quit repairing and rallying, and never let a wounded enemy escape to safety. They just keep taking the hits, shoving forward, and hammering away with waves of firepower.

He counters what the enemy has to offer, and denies them their special abilities and "gimmicks". He looks across the field and forces the enemy to play in a "basic" manner, cause janky bullshit and cute tricks simply aren't *efficient* enough to overwhelm the Sire of the Scribes.

It's all well and good to specialize in "TACTIC ______", but at every turn you will be met with another coordinated wall of metal and hate, that gives no shits. The Scribes may not be flashy, but they are armed with Volkites and other flash gear.

The enemy loses some/all of what they are best in, and then the advanced guns and armor that are the Scribes' tools of the trade actually become superior. In an ideal world, anyway.

Any of that make sense, or suggest proper stats?

>> No.38882254

>Hey Zorg, why'd the Hektor Heresy start?
>The traitor legions believed they had the right to rule the Imperium while the loyalists believed it was the space marines' duty to protect humanity.
>Protect humans? Like how Alexandri does?
>Dohohoho!

>> No.38882355

Merrill stats/ideas:

WS 8
BS 5
S 6
T 6
W 5
I 7
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 3+/5+

Special Rules:
Shrouded
Stealth*
Murderous Strike
Preferred Enemy Characters
Counterassault

Equipment:
Imperial Talon
S 8
AP2
Assault 1, Lance

Melee:
S User
AP 3
Rending/Shred/Defensive Weapon**, Power Spear***

Other thoughts:
*Stealth: I wanted to give him stealth, but only in situations where it helps with a pre-existing cover save. In other words, if he's out in the open, he only gets the bonus from Shrouded. If he's in a woodline, he gets a total of +3 to his cover save.
**Defensive Weapon: Grants +1 to all armour save rolls in melee (bumping him to 2+/4++)
***Power Spear: In the first round of assault, it becomes S: +2, AP 2, Initiative: +2
Wanted to give him some rule where he gets +D3 attacks on the charge, as well as methods to ignore the effects of cover, frag grenades, and snare mines when it comes to charging. Had some ideas for his post-Heresy weapons, might post them at a later date.

>>38881959
We'll see what we can cook up for him.

>> No.38882383

>>38882355
Forgot his Sire rule: Gives IR near him Hatred and Preferred Enemy: Characters or Precision Shot/Strike

>> No.38882400

>>38881959
>Defensive Primarch
Is Onyx, but sure.

>basics
This is anything but planning guy from last post!

>don't ever bend/break
Nothing special for Space Marines.

>never let a wounded enemy escape to safety
Is that through encirclement or just doggedly plodding after them?

>specialise in tactics
Mostly the other Legions have a particular doctrine, or approach to warfighting, rather than a "gimmick". Hektor aims to command the battlefield with his artillery, using firepower to reshape the enemy before delivering a decisive assault. Alexandri is similar but more "intensive", attempting to engage the whole operational depth of the enemy army to destroy it. Gaspard and Cromwald use movement - I think the distinction is between Gaspard aiming at overloading the enemy's command and control, while Cromwald wants to cut the enemy army into pieces and defeat it in detail.

None of that is "tactics", per se.

Anyway, the core issue with what you're suggesting (in 40k terms) is that if you want an Orky style army, having special toys is not going to work. Volkites cost points that could go into men. You could compensate for that by nerfing the hell out of the War Scribes (like losing I or maybe WS), but that's the path of Rook North.

>> No.38882563

>>38882355
>>38882383
Also forgot his jump pack. No special rules except for this idea which just popped into my head:
S 10, I 10 Hammer of Wrath, with a slight chance to either ignore invulnerable saves or inflict multiple wounds (to represent the assassination thing)

>> No.38882620

>>38882400
Not "orky style", just to be clear. They're not a zerg army or what have you.

I was just using a convenient "Orky" phrase to try to get across the concept of a Legion that, when their primarch is on the field, really gets "stuck in", and holds their ground while advancing into the enemy's. I apologize if that gave the wrong impression.

If "Defensive" overlaps too much with Onyx, then Arelex can be more of the "all stats are even" type dude. It's really boring, but may be the most correct.

>basics

Yeah, I was re-examining my last post with that second post, wondering if perhaps I was trying to make Arelex on the small scale too much like Arelex on the large scale. What fits for a Segmentum conquest might not be appropriate to base tabletop stats on, basically.

>Enemies escaping

Basically, wherever the enemy fucks up, the Scribes step forward to exploit that. They also try to force the enemy to fuck up, through relentless pressure. Any crack in the wall will be made use of.

So, it's probably a little of both, doggedly pursuing and encircling, when appropriate and possible.

A WS nerf *is* appropriate for the Scribes, and probably mandatory, since it's fitting their fluff and will cover some of the cost in buffing other areas, like BS or something.

Initiative nerfing would probably be a special rule that only happens in the presence of Chaos-based armies, I'd think. Against "Materium" armies, there might be a corresponding buff, to represent how the Scribes fear no enemy of the real world, but don't handle Chaos well.

>> No.38882873

>>38882355
It's a little "busy". I'd probably give him an omnibus special rule for the sneaking around to avoid exceptions. Is he meant to have Murderous Strike for ranged attacks?

>>38882620
>all stats even
I just don't get that impression from your fluff. He comes across as relatively slow and tactically cautious.

>doggedly pursuing and encircling, when appropriate and possible
That does make it easy to see how they get owned by the Marines Justicar.

>A WS nerf *is* appropriate for the Scribes
If you really want to, but bear in mind that this is the Dark Path.

>the Scribes fear no enemy of the real world
And They Shall Know No Fear... is the signature rule for Space Marines. This does not distinguish them as a Legion. (And I'm a little surprised to have to clarify this.)

Getting pwned by warp-based armies like Chaos (and Eldar, and Orks...) can just be a function of not having any Psykers, you don't need to kick them again to make it work.

>> No.38882948

>>38882873
>Omnibus Special Rule
Sounds good. Again, I want him to be awesome when in cover or in the first round of assault, but be incredibly (for a Primarch) squishy when not in those circumstances

>Murderous Strike
No. Just in assault.

>> No.38883089

>>38882873
What does "slow and cautious" represent to you, then, an Initiative penalty?

I don't necessarily mind that, as long as an appropriate buff is earned in return.

>owned by Marines Justicar

Who, why, and when?

>WS nerf

I've always had it that the Scribes are not so good at melee, is all. So, that stat always seemed like a thing they would lose a little bit in, since I believe that for any buff, there should generally be a nerf.

>Fear

Mmk, that's fine. Again, the fluff for the Legion was that they do well versus more logical foes, and tend to suffer versus Chaotic foes.

If "no psykers allowed" is a sufficient rule, and would meaningfully free up points for other things, then that's fine with me.

>> No.38883128

>>38882948
OK. Murderous Strike should probably be on the Imperial Talon instead of Rending (which he doesn't really need).

I see where you're going with the Lance rule on the Talon, but it's pretty strange nonetheless. I'm guessing the ranged attack is 12 or 18"? The specials for the first round should probably be +1I, +1S (with Shred & MS this is almost a debuff), +D3 attacks. Some of the stuff you want to give him on the charge could be included in the rules for his jumppack, though HoW is really just smashing into the enemy and taking it over his own Strength doesn't make that much sense.

>> No.38883256

>>38883089
>I penalty for "slow and cautious"
Not really. Initiative is a melee stat, not a matter of command and control. It'd probably be reflected in his Rite of War forcing the Scribes to be more Troop-based but getting better options on their Troops - nothing "flashy", but a different standard of flash.

>Marines Justicar
Uriel and sons.

>WS nerf
It seriously is the Dark Path. You could nerf their I and get away with that (there's precedent with the Sallies).

>Will not having Librarians free up points?
Kinda. Librarians aren't cheap, but it's not like you get bonus points for not being allowed to take them.

>> No.38883364

>>38883256
>Librarians

Not freeing points for stats, necessarily. Freeing points for improvements to the overall Legion rules might be another option.

>Dark Path

I'm not sure what this actually is, but you've referenced it a lot, so I guess it's better to avoid it. If you think it's better to keep their stats the same as any other Marine's, then I guess that's ok. I do question where the diversity between Legions comes from though.

>More troop based, with better options

Is this the same thing as "They get better weapon options, if you pay more points" that Loreanon originally suggested? Not an actual buff, but simply a way to allow you to dump more points into the individual infantrymen?

>> No.38883405

>>38883364
>>38883256
Phrased that first point poorly.

Legion A can take Librarians.

Legion B cannot take Librarians.

All else being equal, why ever pick Legion B?

Hence me wondering why that does not merit a bonus in other areas.

>> No.38883439

WS 8
BS 5
S 6
T 6
W 5
I 7
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 3+/5+

Special Rules:
Sire of the Iron Rangers*
Preferred Enemy Characters
Counterassault
Sudden Strike*

Equipment:
Jump Pack*
Imperial Talon
S 8
AP2
Assault 1 18", Lance

Melee:
S User
AP 3
Shred, Murderous Strike, Defensive Weapon, Power Spear

Sire of the Iron Rangers: Rogerius Merrill gains +3 to his cover save. If he would otherwise not receive a save, he retains a 5+ cover save. All models with the Iron Rangers rule within 18" of Rogerius Merrill gain Hatred and Precision Shot/Precision Strike.
Sudden Strike: Whenever Merrill makes a Hammer of Wrath attack, it is at S 10. Rolls of a 6 to hit and wound ignore all armour and invulnerable saves.


>>38883128
Changed the stuff a bit. Basically the lance was there to give him some (limited) defense against armour or the ability to aid in taking out a tough tank before assaulting something else. It's pretty clearly just an add-on to him to make him more well-rounded. It can be removed. As for the deal with the Power Spear, the rules were posted way back and were deemed acceptable, as they were a significant boost in the first round and not so great after that (basically a 2-handed power sword). His is significantly beefed, which I figured would be alright, as it's literally his only weapon. As for the HoW, I wanted something to signify him getting the drop on an opponent and bringing them down before they could react. Despite the high strength, it wouldn't work on another P, but I figured it's a great place to start for that and could still do the damage required. The end goal is to make a P that has the SLIGHT possibility of taking out another P on turn 1 of assault, but if he fails, he'll will get destroyed on subsequent turns. Which is why I avoided putting Hit and Run down (ironically, there will be lots of that in the IR themselves) Still not sure how to add the attacks or other first-round abilities without making him too bulky.

>> No.38883560

>>38883439
>Edit:
WS 8
BS 5
S 6
T 6
W 5
I 7
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 3+/5+

Special Rules:
Sire of the Iron Rangers*
Preferred Enemy Characters
Sudden Strike*

Equipment:
Jump Pack*
Imperial Talon
S 8
AP2
Assault 1 18", Lance

Melee:
S User
AP 3
Shred, Murderous Strike, Defensive Weapon, Power Spear

Sire of the Iron Rangers: Rogerius Merrill gains +3 to his cover save. If he would otherwise not receive a save, he retains a 5+ cover save. All models with the Iron Rangers rule within 18" of Rogerius Merrill gain Hatred and Precision Shot/Precision Strike.
Sudden Strike: Whenever Merrill makes a Hammer of Wrath attack, it is at S 10. Rolls of a 6 to hit and wound ignore all armour and invulnerable saves.


>>38883128
Changed the stuff a bit. Basically the lance was there to give him some (limited) defense against armour or the ability to aid in taking out a tough tank before assaulting something else. It's pretty clearly just an add-on to him to make him more well-rounded. It can be removed. As for the deal with the Power Spear, the rules were posted way back and were deemed acceptable, as they were a significant boost in the first round and not so great after that (basically a 2-handed power sword). His is significantly beefed, which I figured would be alright, as it's literally his only weapon. As for the HoW, I wanted something to signify him getting the drop on an opponent and bringing them down before they could react. Despite the high strength, it wouldn't work on another P, but I figured it's a great place to start for that and could still do the damage required. The end goal is to make a P that has the SLIGHT possibility of taking out another P on turn 1 of assault, but if he fails, he'll will get destroyed on subsequent turns. Which is why I avoided putting Hit and Run down (ironically, there will be lots of that in the IR themselves) Still not sure how to add the attacks or other first-round abilities without making him too bulky.

>> No.38884063

Tiran Base Stat idea1:
WS: 7
BS: 6
S: 7
T: 6 (7)
W: 6
I: 5
A: 3
Ld: 10
Sv: 2+/3++

Keratops (Monstrous/Gargantual Mount)
WS: 6
BS: -
S: 8
T: 8
W: 6
I: 4
A: 4
Ld: 6
Sv: 2+/4++

>> No.38884119

>>38880657
>I don't think that there's a Tiran rules sketch. Lore might have some ideas but I think he's still playing 6e and doesn't like inventing new rules.

To be fair, FW haven't released a full 7e Update to the HH Rules yet.

>> No.38884816

>>38882355
Just give him shrouded. It is simpler and does more for you.

>D3 charge attacks
He never struck me as that kind of guy, I always saw him as duelist's assassin.

>Defensive Weapon
I suggest a rerollable saves instead because it better represents him jumping about, but does not change the armor itself. Unless you really think a spear is a defensive weapon on its own. You don't really think that do you Merrill? Do you?

>Counterassault
What's that? Counter attack?

>Grenades
Yeah, why not frag and defensive grenades, plus the option to buy him rad grenades and other stupid explosives?

>>38882563
No AP anything HoW, it's just not a thing.

>> No.38885797

>>38875496
Consider "No Sacrifice is too Great"

>> No.38887600

I'm working on several large additions to my Knights (Because I have nothing else to do at the moment), and want to ask Lumey if he has a layout for the Igwen Complance done or considered anywhere. I'm doing a 'Notable Battles' section on it but aside from the name and the fact that it decimates the Knight Household I know nothing about it, as it is a V Legion Battle led by Primarch Lumey personally.

>> No.38888686

>>38887600
I'm pretty sure that Fabrice is mentioned as the commander, so I suspect that Gaspard is elsewhere. (It's been established that Gaspard didn't usually go about in the Resolve.) That's about all I know.

You could always work up a Titan Legion.

>> No.38888700

>>38888686

I already did. Legio Unceglia 'Giants of the Deep', from the Forge World of Chakaris.

>> No.38888716

>>38883560
>Basically the lance was there to give him some (limited) defense against armour or the ability to aid in taking out a tough tank before assaulting something else. It's pretty clearly just an add-on to him to make him more well-rounded. It can be removed.
Consider Armourbane?

>Still not sure how to add the attacks or other first-round abilities without making him too bulky.
He should probably have a second "general" rule, like the Vardhana's "Visionary".

>>38888700
Aren't they just a paragraph? I know that none of the Titan Legions are well worked-out, but someone has to step forward.

>> No.38888753

>>38888716

I have a fair bit in my notes for them. They specialize in war on Ocean Worlds, operating in the same way as the Jaegers in the last section of Pacific Rim.

I'll have a full writeup within a few hours.

>> No.38888830

Also I was trying to do a short summary write up, which got bigger and bigger and eventually I decided just to do a page on her. This makes me feel kind of bad, because I get the impression that this may read too much like something a fanboy would write. Fortunately I'm on a Prison School binge at the moment, I'm sick and tired of Fate.

So if anyone would critically look at this, tell me what I've done wrong (Because I'm sure there's something wrong with this as it stands, even though it's only half done) and hopefully help me fix it.

Also though I'm tempted to do a Primarch style sidebar/infobox, there's no way in fuck I'm using any anime pictures at all. I'm trying to distance this from that as much as possible.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Arturia_Eld_%28Hektor_Heresy%29

>> No.38890017

Okay, bump

so I have this for Merrill
>Pic related

It sucks, but its the best I can do with my ability and some helpful tools/tricks.

Gonna have a quick bit of lunch then will try crack on with some more writing.

>> No.38890369

>>38890017
Fair enough, man. Looks odd to see an old guy in Power Armour. Should he get some age lines removed?

>>38888716
>Armourbane
Definitely an option

>>38884816
>Shrouded
It's actually included in there (5+ cover save minimum)
>Defensive weapon
Yeah, a shortspear can be used defensively. You've got a haft that's short enough to use for blocking, and it can be used as a staff with a pointy end.

>Counterattack
Moot point as it was removed

>HoW
Yeah, it was a thought. Suggestions to alter things? See: >>38883560

>> No.38890488

>>38884816
>duelist's assassin
I never saw him that way. I have stated that he is an extremely dirty fighter, and has no personal issues with utilizing any dirty or cheap trick to win. I always figured he's the guy who goes all out immediately to take an opponent down right off the bat. That being said, if that's how the group sees him, we can make changes.

>> No.38890545

>>38890369
>Fair enough, man. Looks odd to see an old guy in Power Armour. Should he get some age lines removed?
Yeah I can remove the age lines, shouldn't be an issue.

All of them, or just the ones around the eyes?

>> No.38890566

WS 8
BS 5
S 6
T 6
W 5
I 7
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 3+/5+

Special Rules:
Sire of the Iron Rangers*
Preferred Enemy Characters
Assassin Primarch*

Equipment:
Jump Pack*
Imperial Talon
S 8
AP2
Assault 1 18", Armorbane

Melee:
S User
AP 3
Shred, Murderous Strike, Defensive Weapon, Power Spear

Sire of the Iron Rangers: Rogerius Merrill benefits from the Shrouded, Stealth, Infiltrate, and Outflank USR's. All models with the Iron Rangers rule within 18" of Rogerius Merrill gain Hatred and Precision Shot/Precision Strike.

Assassin Primarch: Whenever Rogerius Merrill charges into assault, it counts as an Organised Charge. When he charges, he gains +D3 attacks instead of just +1.

>> No.38890574

>>38890545
How about just the eyes, and then you can be the judge from there?

>> No.38890616

>>38890574
Is that better?

>> No.38890700

>>38890616
Indeed, good work, man!

>> No.38890731

alright, I've been busy for the past few days, has anything come up I should be aware of?
Also, would it be OP for the Stone Men to use behemoths and land-trains instead of titans and knights based on buried shit they found on Neolithus?

>> No.38891045

>>38890488
>assassin
Only in terms of killing a single person immediately and effectively.

>>38890369
>weapon
>defensive
>in any reality

The only defense is maneuvering and positioning... and shields. Short spears are simply better in one on one engagement because they are easier to move around.

>>38890566
But where are the rules for defensive weapon? Also, consider rewording 'assassin primarch' to "Assaults Merrill and the unit he has joined always count as organized charges." Then instead of assassin put "Dirty Fighter: whenever this model is engaged in a challenge and successfully wounds, the opposing model must make a toughness test. If they fail, their WS is reduced by half until Merrill's next turn."

>> No.38891311

>>38891045
>Defensive Weapon
Rules are here: >>38882355 I avoid copy/pasting too much every time I change things around and just keep the basics. This ain't final print. So I save space for people who haven't ready through the whole thing. When I get an "okay, looks good as of now," I'll post one with literally everything on there again.

Also, defense does include parrying. And unless you're making your spear haft out of balsa, you have a large surface area that's easily controlled to parry with. For a haft made out of the proper materials (thoroughly waxed hardwood) and handled correctly, they can withstand a shit-ton of abuse. And the only real way to snap the haft is to strike it as the tip is braced against a solid object (watch the Viper and The Mountain fight, it has an excellent example).

>Assassin Primarch/Dirty Fighting
As it's sacrificing his additional attacks on the charge, should I increase his overall A? And I like Dirty Fighting.

>> No.38891321

>>38891311
>Edit:
>I avoid copy/pasting too much every time I change things around and just keep the basics. This ain't final print. So I save space for people who have read through the whole thing.

>> No.38891735

New version:

WS 8
BS 5
S 6
T 6
W 5
I 7
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 3+/5+

Special Rules:
Sire of the Iron Rangers*
Preferred Enemy Characters
Assassin Primarch*

Equipment:
Jump Pack
Imperial Talon
S 8
AP2
Assault 1 18", Armorbane

Melee:
S User
AP 3
Shred, Murderous Strike, Defensive Weapon*, Power Spear*

Sire of the Iron Rangers: Rogerius Merrill benefits from the Shrouded, Stealth, Infiltrate, and Outflank USR's. All models with the Iron Rangers rule within 18" of Rogerius Merrill gain Hatred and Precision Shot/Precision Strike.

Assassin Primarch: Assaults Merrill and the unit he is attached to always count as organised Charges. When Merrill Charges, he gains +D3 Attacks

Dirty Fighter: Whenever this model is engaged in a challenge and successfully wounds, the opposing model must make a toughness test. If the model fails, its WS is reduced by half until Merrill's next turn.

Defensive Weapon: When this model is engaged in assault, it adds +1 to all armour saves.
>To Lumey: the reason I'm not straight up re-rolling is because it boosts his chances to save by about 5% over a +1.

Power Spear: In the first round of assault, the Imperial Talon has the following profile: S: +1, AP: 2, I: +1. If the model using the Imperial Talon charges, the S and I bonuses each increase to +2.

>> No.38893196

bump

>> No.38895059

>>38890731
I don't think Legions ever "use" Knights and Titans. They don't own those vehicles.

>> No.38895180

>>38895059

Knights often attach themselves to Legions for extended periods, the same with Titans. But neither are ever 'owned' by the legion, they're close allies.

>> No.38895196

>>38895059
>knights and titans
You're correct, but the legions are higher up the command chain so can order them about.
Which in the 30k era is essentially the same thing, although not quite.

---

Okay did a bunch of rewriting of the organisation section.
>http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Children_of_Astarot#Organisation

And a little rejiggle of the Sacred Band history.

>http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Children_of_Astarot#The_13th_Squad_of_the_Sacred_Band

Will try to do some more writing after a late dinner

>> No.38895324

>>38895196
>the legions are higher up the command chain so can order them about.
Not so much as all that. The Knight Households - perhaps. But Titan Legions are part of the Mechanicum and not subject to the Primarchs. Most of the Forge Worlds have pacts with Legions and frequently deploy their forces alongside Space Marines, but it's not a thing they have to do.

(In game terms, Titans and Knights are not on the Space Marine Legion list. You have to take them as an Allied Detachment.)

>> No.38895848

>>38891311
>Hafts can be durable.
Of course. But this isn't about durability (which should be a given for a primarch's weapon.) It's about the fact that, while parrying you can't stab a person, and it is very difficult to put yourself in a position TO stab a person.

Where as with a saber you can stab, lock the person's blade/axe/bullshit, the thrust into their face. Furthermore, though spears are thick their defensive area (if hit directly) is relatively small. It would either take a fluke, or a purposeful strike for someone to actually hit the damn thing. Meanwhile the other poor idiot is trying to avoid getting stabbed/chopped/cleaved or whatever

>Citing Game of Thrones Combat
I am legitimately raging right now. That fight was a flashy tv example of an experienced duelist fighting a muscle bound thug, and dying because he was a drunk idiot.

It is not an example of actual combat in any sense beyond the fictional.

The viper was pirouetting across the arena like an italian fairy while captain steroid wildly gesticulated after him. The reality is different, it would have been much less flashy, and much more controlled.

>Defensive weapon
Again I reiterate this should just give you re-rolls for your armor and invulnerable saves.

>Increase attacks?
By 1 I think. That way he has six on the charge, which is bretty gud.

>> No.38895970

>>38895848
Calm down and read the Eyes of the Emperor. They don't have any ahistorical melee fighting rules.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Eyes_of_the_Emperor#Nineteenth_Legion_.28Warhammer_40.2C000_using_Forge_World.27s_Horus_Heresy_supplements.29

>> No.38896038

>>38895970
I'm talking about how a spear is used in combat, not the martial disciplines of a legion.

>> No.38896098

>>38896038
I know, I'm trying to distract you by changing the subject. Also, the Eyes have more special rules for the skirmish game than anyone else, so they should get a look over.

>> No.38896457

>>38896098
Speaking of changing subjects, did you look over the comments i made right before we all went to bed last night?

Or should I just stop thinking about giving Arelex stats, since I'm not a tabletop player and must rely on others to produce said stats?

>> No.38897607

>>38896457
>diversity in Legions
Legions have a variant Legiones Astartes rule, reflecting their own unique doctrine and gene-seed ability. For example, the Eyes rule:

>All units with the Legiones Astartes (Eyes of the Emperor) rule are subject to the following provisions:
>1. Legiones Astartes (as per the Crusade Army list)
>2. Sight of the Vardhana: All models in an Eyes of the Emperor detachment (not just those with the Legiones Astartes rule) have the Acute Senses special rule. Cover saves against models with the Legiones Astartes rule are reduced by 1.
>3. Caste System: When determining a Squad's leadership, use the highest leadership among models from models with the Acharya rule (if any). If there are no such models, use the highest leadership from models with the Wesias rule (if any). Otherwise, leadership is determined normally.

In addition, Legions might have variant Force organisation due to their Rites of War, special units (such as the Eyes' eccentric troop choices, the Heralds' Chrysaspides and Hypaspezete) and special characters.

>Why take a no-Librarian Legion?
Firstly, it's not uncommon to draw up an army that doesn't have psykers on it. Players do that all the time. (I just glanced at the three Space Marine lists on the Army List discussion at Warseer, and only one of them had a Librarian in it.) Secondly, the other options afforded the list - its variations above - might be appealing.

I'm not sure what kind of wargaming pedigree you have, but 40k's balance is not strict 0-sum stuff. It's still quite an "old-fashioned" wargame, with many options included for each faction that are relatively ineffective. Unlike "tightly" balanced games (e.g. WarmaHordes) there's sufficient customisation that the practice of net-listing isn't particularly strong - certain models do become staples, but they can be deployed in several variations and players often make choices based on non-game factors.

>> No.38897848

>>38895848
>Taking the entire scene as an example
I said specifically the scene where the spearhead is smashed. By swinging it into the ground. And in traditional european fighting parrying was both part of the attack and a method of setting yourself up for a response, not just blocking an opponent. Individual swings are meant to both protect oneself while dealing damage, striking your opponent's weapon (to prevent a swing) while connecting with your opponent. Given, spear vs armor isn't a great option, but utilising it in a defensive manner is a viable option.

>> No.38897857

>>38897607
I sought 0-sum balancing to avoid the appearance of simply wanting buffs for no cost, and the overpoweredness that results from that mentality.

For every buff, some sort of nerf, and for every nerf, some sort of buff, ideally. Maybe that's not how 40k works, but it always seemed like the "most fair" way to do things, in regards to making custom Legions that are neither crippled nor overshadowing the Legions of others.

But either way, I know I'd like to have finished stats for Arelex and his Legion, and I'm looking for the best way to do that.

I have a literal infinity of words to offer you and anyone else who cares like helping, to point the way towards something that properly represents my Legion, and I don't mind talking as much as you care to listen, and answering any questions you might have, in order to shoulder as much of the burden as I can.

>> No.38897938

>>38896457
As for whether you should try to stat things up.... I'm reminded of the business with the Ascent of Man, which was pretty painful. There are several contributors who have a pretty good handle on the rules of 40k, so it might be better to give a coherent and concise description of the War Scribes' doctrine and leave it to committee.

I will make no apology if you end up with a camel.

However, I also get the impression that you're not much of a military history guy, so that may not be a substantially easier task. I could perhaps lay out a ground plan for the War Scribes based on my mental image of them, although I'm not really keen to wade through their whole page to take in any subtle distinctions

>> No.38898058

>>38897857
>>38896457
Meh, I'm thinking dropping the stats entirely. LCK is about to have an aneurysm over there, and despite normally finding ways to poke it and make him go full-blown volcano, I just don't feel like it today. I will retain my views, opinions, experiences, and observations, and argue those, but I have no desire to go further with the idea. Stats went nowhere last time, and I don't see them going anywhere this time, either.

>> No.38898147

>>38897857
OK, just to deal with "buffs and nerfs":

Shresth Nibhanupudi and Phirun Soun are very powerful characters - but they're very expensive. Is that a buff or a nerf? Well, neither: it's just a thing.

>>38898058
Just change the "Defensive Weapon" thing to "Defensive stance" and say that it gives him a 4+ Invulnerable in CC instead of a +1 to saves. (Even a 2+ Armour save isn't worth much in 30k Assaults!) The issue that you two are having is that your discussion is diving into the minutiae rather than skirting around it.

>> No.38898258

>Hektor Heresy is now a buzzword synonymous with 'cancer on /tg/', such as WST and Quests.

>> No.38898336

>>38898258
>Haven't seen it referenced.
>Evidence?

>> No.38898340

>>38897938
The Ascent of Man was me trying to play around with some numbers, basically.

In this case, there's no real grading scale for "how much a thing is worth", so I don't have to worry so much about optimizing things.

As far as subtle distinctions go, I could certainly add them to whatever ground plan you might come up with.

Doctrinally...

Trying to be as concise as I can, it's summed up in a few bullet points.

1: At all times, no matter what else is going on, try to have better equipment. Higher quality armor, better guns, better engines, etc. All else being (theoretically) equal in terms of *skill*, the Scribes generally have more power per unit to bring to bear, regardless of unit type.

2: Combined arms is a thing we like. Artillery, air power, armored units, fast attack, Dreads, infantry, all that jazz. The Scribes army is an *integrated* machine. (Except generally, we ignore Assault Marines, unless the situation REALLY calls for it.). This machine works really well when all the parts are in place and moving as one. If not, bad things tend to happen.

3: Melee is unpredictable. Ranged fire is much more controllable. We prefer ranged combat, whenever possible. Not necessarily because we're *good* at it, but because we're *not so good* at melee.

4: Chaos is everything we stand against. We fight WAY more ferociously against it than most other foes, with an instinctual, gene-bred hatred, but this tends to break all our coordination. And if things go bad, which they often do when army components spaz out, they go bad REALLY quick, often irreparably. And on the defensive against Chaos? When they have the initiative? Emps save us.

Does that help at all?

>>38898058
I wasn't planning on pissing off LCK. At least, I'm pretty sure my conversation with Lumey wasn't involved with whatever you two were talking about, or am I wrong?

>>38898258
Meh.

>> No.38898357

>>38898258
>Say, these people are always coming here to complain about quest threads.
>That's because this is the only thread on /tg/ that isn't a quest thread!
>Honhonhonhon!

Maybe you should make a thread to complain about quest threads. I'd post on it.

>> No.38898362

>>38898340
Forgot mah name, not that it wasn't obvious who the post belonged to.

>> No.38898431

>>38898340
>>38898362
This is Arelex.

>> No.38898442

>>38898336
>Evidence?
Slim.
>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/Hektor%20Heresy/

>> No.38898468

>>38898147
>>38898340
>Minutae
Yup. Prolly
>Subject of discussion
No, it wasn't you.

That being said, last time I posted stuff there were some ideas that were liked, but it wound up just going nowhere.

>> No.38898490

>>38898431
You are correct.

>>38898442
Once again, your archival skills come in handy. Well done.

>>38898468
Shit ain't moving very fast today anyway, and the thread's aging, so why not goof around a little bit? It's been a long day at work, and I'm not gonna do a ton of writing in any case. Playing with numbers/ideas is fun though.

>> No.38898603

>>38898442
>Those accursed Quest threads are taking over your board again. You gaze at the screen, the light color scheme of your favorite website searing your retinas as you look over it. There are too many quests. And people talking about shitty RPG systems (I mean honestly, who the fuck even plays Netrunner or Exalted? It's a waste of board space.)

Did we ever discuss quests at all?

>> No.38898682

>>38898603
Nope. Everyone else always seems to, but we never have.

We just been doing our thing, over here in the sandbox. Ain't bothering nobody that wasn't hunting for something to be booty-busted by in the first place.

>> No.38898945

hey guys I wrote a thing please read
http://pastebin.com/dEacBhHn

>> No.38899008

>>38898603
>>38898682
House Walker Quest when?

>> No.38899039

>>38899008
Walkur, not Walker. They aren't Texas Ranger expies.

And never. It will be Order of the Icy Clench Quest.

>> No.38899043

>>38899008
Whenever you want, I guess, though I probably won't take part in it. I don't much like Quests, but neither are my jimmies rustled by them.

>> No.38899097

>These fa/tg/uys won't shut up about females in canon, Zorg!
>They're not ggonna talk about men.
>But OP will!
>Honhonhonhon!

>> No.38899108

>>38898945
Reading, not quickly.

>>38899039
Auto-correct has a lot to answer for.

>>38899043
I make jokes, Arelex.

>> No.38899136

>>38899097
Hey Zorg, you forgot me!

>> No.38899154

>>38899136
No I didn't!
Honhonhonhon!

>> No.38899262

>>38899108
And I wasn't gonna tell you you can't do things. ;)

Even if it's unlikely you're serious.

>> No.38899372

so, I was thinking of a reason as to why Neolithians might be everywhere and still maintain a solid, unified culture
>after the emperor discovers Onyx, the Neolithians (who had already begun to overpopulat their planet) flood the sectors and planets around them. Eventually it ramps down, but not after a huge conference between the high lords of terra, malcador, the Emperor, and Onyx known as "The Neolithian Question"
>Due to their culturally-based/lead governance, their cultural sovereignty threatened the Emperor's united Imperium of man. In response, Onyx forced them to stop immigration to other planets, and lessened the extent of their religion (which would remain dormant until it resurges after the heresy)
>as such, Neolithians are present in many large hive-worlds, and make up a sizeable chunk of 5-10 sectors. They are mainly controlled through the church, which stifles any sort of intimations of independence or rebellion.

>> No.38899418

>>38899372
How many Neolithans were there?

>Church
Nope. If they don't become atheists, they'd all get killed.

>> No.38899695

>>38899418
no, that's after the heresy and the Emps dying
before they're more like atheists, just keeping traditions

>> No.38899710

>>38898945
Read it. It left a lot of questions unresolved and seems to be pulling away from what you wrote in >>38899372. Neolithus comes across like a Feudal World, or maybe a somewhat backward Civilised World, not a place teeming with humans looking for a new home.

>> No.38900196

>>38898340
Getting back to this. As a doctrine it's a bit slim. However, your only major deviation from the main Space Marine line is not caring for melee, so I could just assume that they approach things like conservative (*) Ultras but with an aversion to assault.

*:Thinking of this line on their page:
>Where other legions favor boldness and aggression, the Scribes favor tried and proven methods, and seek to be assured of victory before the battle even begins.
This was also relatively helpful, although it might be out of date?
> They are a "big-picture" Legion, concerned more with collective success than individual heroism, and fall short in understanding how combat works on a squad level. To master the large scale, they gave up some of the small.

>> No.38900262

>>38900196
No, the tried and proven thing is still valid.

I just didn't know exactly how that might fit into things, since "tried and proven" basically fits the entire Imperium, much like how you said "Are basically fearless against non-Chaos foes" is the same thing as basically all Marines.

"tried and proven" also includes Dark Age human tech, by the Scribes' reckoning, as well.

I can expand on the doctrine more, perhaps, but I was trying to respect your request for conciseness.

>> No.38900618

>>38900262
>I could write more
I want more focus, not just more words. Military doctrine isn't about hating things and by the time of the Great Crusade combined arms has been established orthodoxy for something like 34,000 years. Just about everyone uses combined arms.

What does a War Scribes "model battle" look like? Look at http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Heralds_of_Hektor#Tactics for an example of that kind of explanation. I know they prefer guns. I know they plan. I don't know how they define victory or how they use firepower to achieve their ends.

>"tried and proven" basically fits the entire Imperium
Not as much as you'd think. It does in terms of technology, but Imperial commanders - especially the Astartes - are capable of innovation, subtlety, and boldness when it comes to military thought.

>> No.38901527

>>38899710
Onyx was there for like 100 years, and used unearthed squat tech to progress a LOT
they almost beat the attack force the Emperor sends to Neolithus
plus it's my way of having the Stone Men still "matter"

>> No.38901655

>>38901527
also, the Neolithians are based loosely on the Gunaches who were pre-celtic proto-europeans stuck in the azures. They lived in huts and caves, but when the spanish invaded they killed them, picked up their guns, learned how to use them, and proceeded to fight to the last man with technology millennia beyond their own

>> No.38901703

>>38901527
>a hundred years
OK, that's time for the population to increase quite a lot if they have the infrastructure to keep their people alive. But you're only looking at maybe a trillion people from "greater Neolithus. That's only a couple of hive worlds worth.

>unearthed squat tech
Is that really necessary?

>they almost beat the attack force the Emperor sends to Neolithus
How?

>having the Stone Men still "matter"
If you want them dead - kill them.
If you want them to matter - have them matter.

Don't force this awkward "and their culture remains really influential forever" - there's ten thousand years for even mighty literate worlds to get sanded down by the Imperium's bureaucracy.

>> No.38901791

>>38901703
the Stone Men split after the heresy. The more loyal veterans get shot out into the abyss (to return and cause problems later), but a few (as in a little more than a squad) survive the big end-of-the-world battle at Terra, the Sisypheans. They're the ones who secretly began to become religious, and almost turned traitor. In a cruel twist of fate and irony, they're the only ones left to found the NEW stone men, the esoteric religious gold-and-stone mason marines.

>> No.38902025

>>38901791
Why does this happen? How does this happen?

>> No.38902059

>>38902025
because chaos
the traitors were cowards, and didn't join the rest in the super final battle of the heresy. They show up afterwards and pretend to be heroes, ending up revered saints of the Imperium
and the reason is grimdark

>> No.38902167

>>38902059
Why do the loyalists get sent off into the Abyss? How does that happen?

>because Grimdark
Do not play me, freebirth. I can and will call for a Trial of Grievance.

>> No.38902361

>>38902167
Clannerscum.

>> No.38902463

Since this thread is about to go prompt-critical, I'm going to ask who makes these threads.

>> No.38902671

>>38902463
Alexandri, Lore-Anon, Uriel, sometimes Arelex, never Lumey.

>> No.38902742

>>38902671
Never Lumey?

>> No.38902796

>>38900618
A "model battle" for the Scribes looks something like this.

1: The Scribes are rarely, if ever, without naval support. They value it VERY highly. They almost always begin a battle with orbital surveillance, and sometimes orbital bombardment. Sometimes, if they're trying to strike but still preserve valuable resources on the planet, they send in waves of Thunderhawks configured as bombers/CAS.

2: Once they've established an opening in the AA, they begin landing their troops. This phase takes some time, to get everything coordinated and deployed, and so Thunderhawks usually remain on standby, circling the battle to keep the enemy off balance.

3: Once organized, the Scribes begin moving forward towards whatever targets they identified, either from orbit, from Thunderhawk recon, from prior knowledge of the planet, or from scouts on the ground.

4: These waves tend to be heavy, with significant vehicular support. They generally use overwhelming firepower to achieve their ends, and do not generally move with haste. No enemy presence is allowed to remain on the field, it is flattened. If the enemy crumbles quickly, then that's great, the Scribes pick up the pace. If they remain entrenched, the Scribes simply amplify the bombardment.

>cont

>> No.38902816

>>38902742
Never seen him do it even when it comes around the time he should be on.

>> No.38902858

>>38902816
I was OP in this thread, actually. My fondness of the Aurries isn't a secret.

>> No.38902959

>>38900618
>>38902796

4a: Should the enemy occupy zones of important "_________", then the Scribes will attempt to breach the area with infantry and fast attack vehicles, generally Javelins or Land Speeders. Assault Marines are rarely, but occasionally, called in. Collateral damage is ideally minimal, and the Scribes bring to bear all the fancy guns they have available, to give them options. Ultimately though, it still usually looks like a prolonged, forceful shove against enemy lines, rather than a dashing breakthrough.

5: By this point, the unrelenting hammering should have done its job. The enemy is either dead, fragmented, or fleeing, and can be mopped up in detail. The Scribes return to orbit, and pass on the battlefield to the Imperial Army/Guard.

5a: As always, if there are relevant items to the Legion, they will stay and investigate them. Archaeotech is usually the key reason for the Scribes to stick around. If the conquered planet is particularly important, or if it is very isolated, a Chapter/Company of Scribes will often be deployed to keep an eye on things until more Imperials arrive.

6: Victory is defined by the enemy's total destruction. The Scribes rarely worry about the time it takes to achieve this, to them it's about being thorough more than being swift. They know their equipment is superior, and they trust in it, along with their methodical nature, to carry the day.


Side note: The "Ideal" War Scribes invasion force is anywhere from 30-50% vehicles. Dreadnoughts, Fellblades, Land Raiders, Whirlwinds, Thunderhawks, Land Speeders, etc.

The infantry generally ride in, walk alongside, and protect the heavy guns, and the army becomes one enormous mass of firepower. It's more of a WWI doctrine, wherein the armor supports the infantry, than a WWII blitzkrieg. (Cause I know there's already at least one Legion that does the WWII thing). Very rarely will the Scribes call upon the armor to form an independent spearhead.

>> No.38902993

>>38902858
>>38902959
>>38902796

Does that help address your question, or am I still off the mark?

>> No.38903061

>>38902993
It does help, though bear in mind that they will get kicked in by anyone who can face them on remotely even terms. That sort of "brute force" doctrine only works when you have substantial material superiority.

>> No.38903159

>>38903061
Well, that is in fact one of the main reasons why the Atalantos Worlds are a thing. Arelex liked that sort of fighting style, and so he set up that massive home base to enable it, and why he put so much effort into making sure that when shit goes bad, the Legion/Atalantos Worlds are experienced in rebuilding themselves and others.

And yes, that is also one of the reasons why their planning/logistics skills are so important out of battle, to ensure they don't ever fight those "fair fights".

Finding the cracks in the enemy's armor is a big deal to the Scribes, and applying massive force to wherever the enemy is weakest, in order to force assets away from where the enemy is strongest.

To other Legions, it looks like a very slow style of warfare, but to the Scribes, it's how you cause the enemy to create his own weaknesses, to be mercilessly exploited. Even a very entrenched enemy can be reduced in this manner, or so the Scribes maintain.

>> No.38903214

>>38903159
I don't think anyone would doubt that an entrenched enemy could be defeated that way. It's a mobile enemy who would pwn the War Scribes.

This does raise an interesting question, though. What do they do after the Reformation, when they only have 1,000 guys? Do they buy into Gaspard's doctrine, or try stick with their founder's tactics?

>> No.38903222

>>38903159
>>38903061
Basically, unless I'm really bass-ackwards, this is my attempt to create a tactical set that is unsubtle, even crude on the tactical, personal level, but can be really elegant on the logistical, high level strategic arena.

Graceless walls of firepower, but directed gracefully by High Command, to locations of opportune/created weaknesses.

The Legion has a lot of faith in their commanders, which is good, so long as nothing seriously disrupts that command structure.

Does that make sense?

>> No.38903385

>>38903214
Mobile enemies are handled depending on the severity of the threat.

Small threat: Send in a strike wave of fast attack vehicles.

Moderate threat: Same as above, but with Thunderhawks supporting from above.

Heavy mobile threat: Legion begins redeploying to attempt to envelop, using air and ground transport.

Very heavy mobile threat: Probably we start the orbital bombardment and call it a day.


Regarding the Reformation/Second Founding and all that stuff, the Scribes tend not to split their Chapter too much. More often than not, they move in full Companies rather than Squads, and they still have an excess of auxiliary support like allied Knights, extra Thunderhawk air support, extra Cybernetica, and their usual heavy vehicles. The Scribes play a bit fast and loose with the size of a "Chapter". Very, very rarely will they ever have more than 1000 Marines, but they will often have quite a bit of "auxilia" support that doesn't fall under Codex rules.

They do acknowledge that without the resources of a full Legion at their back, they can't take on the bigger targets, though. The Chapter does accept Gaspard's ideas of smaller Chapters, though they tend to keep to their same strategies, just selecting targets they can actually handle, rather than biting off more than they can chew.

As far as any specific doctrinal changes, you'll have to be more specific about what Gaspard would encourage them to do.

>> No.38903528

>>38903222
>really elegant on the logistical, high level strategic arena
For certainly values of elegance, I guess? A good logistics system normally does "just in time" delivery, so that stores don't have to be accumulated for ordinary operations. The War Scribes' war-fighting doctrine probably works just fine for their operations in Atalantos (short supply lines) but fighting further away at a high intensity is going to be extraordinarily difficult.

inb4 you say they're brilliant at that.

Because really, that's not very likely. The Legions who would be good at fighting high intensity campaigns at the edge of their supply lines are the ones with practical experience in doing as much. The Scribes are definitely going to benefit from a huge mountain of munitions at Atalantos, but that doesn't help unless the fight comes to them. Which it currently does because plot.

For what it's worth, the closest real-world command to what you're talking about is Stalin's STAVKA. Tactically dubious, good understanding of grand strategy.

>>38903385
>they still have an excess of auxiliary support like allied Knights, extra Thunderhawk air support, extra Cybernetica, and their usual heavy vehicles. The Scribes play a bit fast and loose with the size of a "Chapter". Very, very rarely will they ever have more than 1000 Marines, but they will often have quite a bit of "auxilia" support that doesn't fall under Codex rules.
That is asking for Civil War. Two hundred extra Space Marines is not a big deal. Keeping control over extra-Astartes assets was what caused the Heresy.

>be specific about Gaspard's doctrine
Gaspard wants the Chapters to be committed sparingly against the most pressing threats. Mobility, initiative, and surgical strikes, rather than brute force, are the orders of the day.

>> No.38903565

>>38897848
Ah, yes. Exactly.

Well okay.

>>38898058
I was actually not nearly as butt mad as I implied. I went autismo a bit because I thought you were implying "defensive weapons are a thing, and spears are defensive hurr durr". I would have replied to this post about two - three hours earlier if I had not been going to play some 40k. (Rather ironic I think.)

>> No.38903799

>>38903528
Hmm. I was under the impression that people generally approved of the idea that the Scribes supplement themselves with some Cybernetica, provided by the friendlier Forge Worlds. I figured it'd be a lot easier to explain some extra hardware, rather than excess full fledged Marines (Hello, Mr. Huron, nice to see you today!)

And I wasn't aware that having some extra Thunderhawks on standby, piloted by Chapter serfs, would be a problem.

The allied Knights would of course be just that, allied. Not subservient. But once the Legion becomes a mere Chapter, the Knights retain their numbers, more or less, so there's proportionately a lot more Knights available to potentially choose to ride with the Scribes.

As far as the logistical system goes, I had envisioned it being more like a "We have extra naval vessels, so let's make sure they have a lot of extra supplies on hand in case they're needed", and then go do what the Scribes do. Not efficient, but also not so reliant on supply lines.

And just FYI, Post-Heresy the battles generally won't come to the Scribes, aside from Necron raids. They get hit twice, once at whatever replacement for Isstvan we've now decided on, and once in the Burning Crusade.

STAVKA analogue seems kinda cool, though.


Fighting against the most pressing threats works just fine for the Scribes. They like having targets that clearly need a whooping. Being a Chapter will encourage them to get better at the small scale things, but they would see "surgical strikes" as that process of weakening the enemy and pulling them off balance, before striking for the kill. Mobility they would see as "Javelins, Land Speeders and Thunderhawks". If that's enough for Lumey, then that works for the Scribes. Fast Attack is part of the battle plan, always has been. It's just rarely independent from the main force.

Initiative is a gray area, with multiple possible definitions of initiative. Not sure on that point.

>> No.38903827

>>38903799
>>38903528

Should add, The Scribes are no longer solely responsible for the defense of the Atalantos Worlds, once they become a Chapter.

From that point on, the Atalantos Worlds can count on the Scribes as an ally whenever possible, but mostly have to stand on their own, just like Ultramar does.

>> No.38904902

>>38903827
Well, time for bed, I reckon. See you all tomorrow sometime.

>> No.38905012

>>38903565
Hey, it's cool. I don't make generalist retarded statements when it comes to weapons uses. If I'm out of my element on something in that area, I'll own up to it (I have very little idea what the hell is going on with most Eastern and African weapons).

>> No.38905901

last minute bump

>> No.38906509

>>38905901
Snakes

>>
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