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[ERROR] No.38568188 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

THE HEKTOR HERESY is a collaborative effort by various anons who wondered 'what if' during a create a Legion Thread. Since then it's developed into a fully fledged Alternate Universe that still needs some work. While we're full on Legions (Though many need work done upon them), such is the nature of the project that we've lost a few anons along the way. Ask in the thread how you can contribute to the Imperial War Machine!

Don't wanna be an Imperial, don't care for beakies? Not to worry!
We welcome all here,
Xenos Empires, Great Crusade Era Factions, Knight Houses, Titan Legions, Chapter Successors, Imperial Army Regiments, Eldar, Dark Eldar, anything and everything just come in and pitch it to be a part of the setting itself.

With that out of the way, here is our main wiki page, to get a feel for things:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_Heresy

ITT: We discuss the Emperor's talk with Hektor.

>> No.38568439

>>38568188
A Proposal on The Queen of the Eclipse.

1. Remove the Marriage Link
Instead have her known as the Mistress of the Moon. Instead of demanding political marriage, she demands to be a lieutenant to Hektor and server of his will. She aims to use this as a way to become close to the greatest general and trusted confidant of the Emperor, and eventually be in charge of her own force of the Legion. The move to give up Luna's hives to be recruiting grounds for the 1st Legion is also a move calculated by her to appear servile but also add in her own taint into the equation.

2. Remove All Hint of Love
Tone down the marriage links, but still keep them. Water down Hektor's speech, lower the general feel of the proceedings on Pallas's page because when I read Pallas's piece I honestly thought you writing it to say Pallas genuinely loved Hektor.

3. Make Pallas Have More Agency.
Have her be in the primary cause of opposition, have her make a more stunning political manouver than simply allowing troops to stomp into her territory. Have her betray the alliance of Luna, her troops turning on their 'allies' in a frenzy of bloodshed while she gives word to Hektor that she has laid out Luna bare to his armies, a 'present' to him.

4. Write More
Make people like Pallas, maybe detail out her adventures before the Unification Wars in the Age of Strife. Maybe even have her play a role in Terra's politics to keep the factions squabbling.

5. Have Everyone Hate Her Fucking Guts.
Right now we have one reference, Hektor, who adores the woman. Write Malcador's comments, write out how she'd treat lessers, like Konstantyn(Renamed Alexey). Maybe he met with her rather than Hektor, and she detailed out how lesser and inferior he was as a naturally born human who should be thankful he isn't being used as biomass to create more efficient forms of life. Something horrid, callous, heartless, and instantly hateable. She doesn't appear anything but a waifu without flaws right now.

>> No.38568777

>>38568439
>1.
I actually like the Marriage thing. It really is something that does show the feudal aspect off. It gives a treaty that's sealed with a political union. That being said, I think we need to downplay it severely, have it only be about a sentence or two, and play her up as a confident and adviser. On being a Lieutenant, I disagree. Have her be her own woman. Make her bow to the Emperor, and Hektor is her partner and equal, at least in her eyes.

>2
See: 1

>3
This sounds all well and good, but that should probably be part of the contract. Surprising your allies right after you sign a treaty with taking out a bunch of dudes that you were just going to "help" with could be too overt of a power play right off the bat. That being said, I would like her to go through and do more shit on her own.

>4
Yes.

>5
The example here I think might be misleading. If we're building up a political powerhouse we need to look at where politics screws up, and "saying things that could lead to you being kicked out of office" is probably the biggest one. If she DOES do things like the example, have them be in situations where it can be refuted, denied, and others around wouldn't believe it. Maybe she's Mother Theresa in public, and in individual interviews she's a complete bitch, but nobody tells anyone because they just assume everyone else deals with her public face.

>> No.38568821

>>38568777
>In retrospect, on love and whatnot
I'm not saying either she can or cannot "love" Hektor. But what I am saying is that it should not be the defining factor of their relationship. That should be power and politics.

>> No.38568851

Any thoughts from the group on this: >>38567623

>> No.38568929

>>38568439
>Love
I think the major problem is the section on her personality. I can rewrite it in a more direct way.

>Right now we have one reference, Hektor, who adores the woman
There's also Gaspard Lumey.

>callous and heartless
She says she lost Hektor on Cadia. On a personal level, that is probably the most horrible thing that any character in the project has said.

>write more
I'm sorry I've been so damn slack it's like I hardly do anything around here geez why do I even comment in threads if I'm not bringing anything to the table. ;)

>> No.38569062

>>38568821
Agreed.

Perhaps the Emperor would tolerate this as well? Considering she is effectively immortal, she could actually provide a stable partner.

Queen seems appropriate, but out of place.

>>38568439
1. This is dependent on how we want to fluff Hektors position in the Emperor's dream in the closing days of the Crusade. Is he just a general, or would the Emperor have promoted him to something more, given enough time?

Her title as his partner is directly related to this.

2. I'd say leave only a hint at best.

3. God why does that sound so sexual? That's a good idea though.

4. Yes. Having non-marines/primarchs play important roles in the Heresy is really cool.

5. So, she's Cercie?

>>38568851
>IA regiments that are pros at their job

Totally for it. No way it couldn't have happened.

>> No.38569179

>>38568851
Regarding the IR and auxilia, there are the usual options: they could have a specialised formation, or they could have favoured regiments from the established outfits.

I recommend that you give them an all-female regiment of Aurries, because Auron is probably a wee bit chauvinist but no doubt breeds some pretty tough women.

>> No.38569358

>>38568929
>There's also Gaspard Lumey.
One quote which might be referencing her Post-Heresy personality does not a full picture of hatred make.

>She says she lost Hektor on Cadia. On a personal level, that is probably the most horrible thing that any character in the project has said.
But we don't know that! You do, but we as readers only see one comment being made and we take Pallas's point of view as the de-facto ruling of events. Meaning that Hektor truly was lost after Cadia! That's how we see it! You need references from other characters to truly paint her.

>I'm sorry I've been so damn slack it's like I hardly do anything around here geez why do I even comment in threads if I'm not bringing anything to the table. ;)
Don't play coy, you know what I meant, you said it to me about the Strelky!

Pallas is not there yet. She needs fine tuning. She needs further elaboration. Reading her page made me feel off, in a way, and I'm totally aboard with the idea. What about those who aren't?

>> No.38569393

So, if Luna, mars, and terra are all major players in the early heresy, what about fluffing out the rest of the planets?

>> No.38569418

>>38569393
Already been done. Saturn is the site of major fleet battles.

>> No.38569492

>>38569418
I meant more about the factions on them before the emperor gets there

>> No.38569553

>>38569358
>Pallas is not there yet
Neither is Hektor. There is a start on both of them, with the Heralds looking a bit more solid. I know that more writing needs to be done, but cut me some slack here. Pallas' page went up just five days ago.

>>38569492
None of the other planets is as well-detailed as Terra, Mars, or Luna - and those three have fragmentary information at best.

>> No.38569731

Ideas for the "go to" regiments discussed earlier:

167th Gethsemane Rifles, "The Killing Jesters"
Specialisations: Urban Warfare, Demolitions, Psychological Warfare
Commander: Alam Aryotta Quin
The 167th is largely made up of underhive gangers pressed into service to fill the Imperial Tithe. It is a mixed-gender Regiment, and has held numerous citations for breaches of protocol, standards, and regulations. Alam Quin, the commander of the Regiment, was chosen due to the fact that she had rose through the ranks from underhive ganger to officer while aiding the Imperium in removing the existing leadership.

432nd Panter Armored Cavalry Regiment, "Platzhaltern"
Specialisations: Rapid deployment and assault, armored warfare
Commander: Oberst Hans Lukr
The 432nd Panter ACR is known for their mixture of fast armored vehicles with supporting heavy infantry. Hans Lukr is a gambler and a rogue, and his Regiment has been largely successful and is lauded for numerous strategic victories. Some within the Imperium believe that his victories come more from luck than skill and foresight.

42nd Auron Mobile Infantry Regiment, "Sunriders"
Specialisations: Jungle Warfare, aerial deployment, close combat
Commander: Colonel Isala Yohannsen
The all-female 42nd is often snubbed by the masculine nature of their home planet, but the women of Auron are nothing to laugh at. Raised in the jungles and thoroughly trained for a mixture of light infantry, aerial insertion (believed to be the less masculine method of arriving to battle), and fighting through dense jungles, Colonel Isala Yohannsen has proven her and her Regiment's worth a thousand times over

>> No.38569762

>>38569731
And there are 3 pop culture references in there for anyone who notices. :P

>> No.38569775

>>38569553
For the beating you gave Arelex last thread and for the fact that Pallas needs to be talked about so any changes can be made quick and fast. I want her to work, so I'm going to challenge you and bring any flaws I see to attention so we can discuss them in a timely manner. It's not an attack and there are no declarations, I'm seeking out a way that makes everyone happy and get the best version of Pallas we can.

>> No.38569784

>>38569553
All the more reason for us to expand upon them
They're essentially the founders of the Imperium along with the big three

>> No.38569829

>>38569731
>Harley Quinn troopers
>Han Solo troopers
>something from aliens?

>> No.38569852

>>38569829
>Kinda
>No
>No

>> No.38569862

>>38569553
>>38569784
Also, this image gave me an idea. The light areas are SK recruiting grounds, the darker is SoF.

>> No.38569885

>>38569829
Actually, 4, now that I think about it. Yep, their commander's name is derived from Harley Quinn, and yes, I do intend to make them anarchists. But no, it's not the Harley Quinn Regiment.

>> No.38569949

>>38569862
Alright, early IR would do some recruiting from around Afghanistan.

>> No.38570351

>>38569775
At the moment, you're laying out a proposal based on saying that you don't like an incomplete page. I am reasonably happy to address "there isn't enough here". The proposal beyond that makes me feel like saying, "Sure, good luck with that."

>>38569862
>SK recruiting grounds.
I don't know what's wrong with their current recruit policy.
>The nascent Eighteenth Legion drew their manpower from the sons of the Emperor's defeated enemies on Terra. It is this that gave them their first moniker, "The Janissaries," but they would become better-known as the "Crimson Hawks" after their distinctive emblem

>> No.38570776

>>38570351
A lot of the project is incomplete, that hasn't stopped anyone from lobbying input before. People are concerned with what Pallas is, or will become, and you're simply ignoring them.

I found a cool map. That's all.

>> No.38570779

>>38569731
>Oberst Hans Lukr
Hans Lauda from Inglorious Basterds

>Colonel Isala Yohannsen
Scarlet Johannsen, the Black Widow of the Avengers.

>> No.38570861

>>38570779
Nope and nope.

>> No.38571015

>>38570861
I'm beginning to doubt your use of the word "reference".

>> No.38571154

>>38570861
I know one is obscure, being a name from an early '90's sci-fi show with a small cult following. Of the remaining 3, they're fairly niche, but they're still rather large. And none of the remaining ones are names of people.

>> No.38571292

>>38570776
>you're simply ignoring them
Short of trolls, I'm not sure who I'm meant to be ignoring. Your proposal isn't representative of a broad body of concern from the last thread (it's still at http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/38511770). Many anons were concerned about an anti-Ork wonder-weapon, and my last word on that was that if the project didn't want it, it was out, if the project wanted it, I'd like to throw Pallas' name in for the inventor.

Regarding romance, you might want less, but Uriel seemed to want more (http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/38511770#p38563679). Similarly, the marriage pact doesn't seem to be broadly unpopular.

>> No.38571498

>>38571154
By His Majesty's Most Holy Inquisition, your secrets will be laid bare, Traitor.

>> No.38571508

>>38571292
Not sure how I feel about an anti-ork superweappn, but I'm leaning towards against.

>> No.38571566

So, Lumey presented his controversial idea, I'm going to detail out mine.

Craftworld Arkendar, which I refer to as the 'romanticist craftworld'. They have the largest collection of lore of the old Eldar Empire. No, not anything useful. I mean old tales, stories, literature. Poetry of the past and proverbs of wisemen loooong past. They know more than anyone that the Eldar are done, their glory days past and never to return. But their Farseer, Jeron Hu'lana, saw signs of or the actual possible outcome of the Psykic Ascendance of humanity. His efforts bring about the Craftworld's mission: Ensure not just the survival, but make sure they thrive. They will make sure that humanity becomes their peers, and help them avoid the failings of their past. The Eldar had their time, they should take their role as the elder race seriously to keep the upcoming dominant species alive.

Not all are on board, many are skeptical, but Jeron believes in this with his whole being. During the Age of Strife they stop Xenos Raiders, aid human settlements, and keep them afloat. They even stop obstacles in the Imperium's path to help them emerge because they believe it will be an equal to the Eldar Empire...little do they know.

When the Imperium presses into their territory, they decide to lie low. Jeron faces a sea of critics to his plan but stays on the course. He foresees Uriel's plans, the Chaos Gods forming their plans. He doesn't know the details but urges the Craftworld into action, because much like Darius, his foresight for future events is clouded by the warp. So Arkendar works covertly, but is discovered.

Uriel then tells Inferox, fudging some details, and gets them to attack. Jeron, not seeing this attack, leaves Arkendar to attempt to warn the one Primarch who might listen to him: Darius.

The fighting on Arkendar is brutal, so intense the Sons of Fire spend the rest of the Crusade recovering, and even garners the attention of Inferox to Khorne.

Cont'd.

>> No.38571640

>>38571508
Yeah. Skimming the thread it looked like there was a substantial body against and explanations about how the Imperium would deal with the Orks without SCIENCE coming to the rescue. So, I guess I was wrong in my assumption that the Great Crusade had a miracle cure for the Ork infestation.

>> No.38571671

>>38571292
I'm currently not for the anti-Ork weapon, but if you expound on it I'm sure you could allay not only mine, but other anons concerns as well.

>> No.38571721

>>38571566
The Sons of Fire who get into the campaign lose themselves in the fighting. All of them give into the Hungry Desire, including Inferox. He doesn't just kill, he murders, and casts the wife of Jeron, Marri Hu'lana, is set alive on fire after Inferox beats her with his fists in melee combat, then casts her down screaming from Arkendar's greatest monument as the last defenders are cornered and eliminated. This act allows Khorne to reach out, and merely show his appreciation to the Primarch. The act makes Inferox repulsed, and sent reeling.

Jeron hears of what happened to Arkendar from survivors. He goes into a near catatonic state of depression, unable to act. His followers, those who stay with him, can barely move him and take care of him at the same time. The Heresy happens, by the time it's finally over, Jeron awakens. He lives out the rest of his days trying to convince the Eldar to give humanity a chance again while the rest of the Arkendarites become wandering vagabonds intent on murdering humanity when they can to the point other Craftworlds believe they're too extreme.

Jeron also forever laments the fact that not only was he unable to even be there to fight beside his beloved and defend his home, but also that he doomed humanity, in his eyes, by being unable to warn Darius.

So, thoughts on Arkendar?

>> No.38571727

>>38571566
I'm down with this.

While we're on this, can Arkender be tied into the Morkai's history? Their dark age was preceded by an omen from a passing craftworld which I haven't detailed.

>> No.38571755

>>38571727
Sure, I want to make Arkendar more than the Sons Craftworld enemies

>> No.38571772

did anyone have any thoughts on the Neolithians/core worlds having an impact on the early ecclesiarchy/imperial cult?

>> No.38571774

>>38571640
Copious firepower is the only cure.

>> No.38571794

>>38571566
Pretty cool, though I'm a little skeptical as to the survival of a single Craftworld against the might of a Legion renowned for their planet-killing skills.

>> No.38571859

>>38571794
They don't survive.

Their attempts to save humanity, to shepard them and guide them and treat them as actual equals(Only a handful believed this, but it's more than most Craftworlds), is rewarded with one of the most ridiculous overkills of a Craftworld in History. So extreme, in fact, to the point it made Khorne pay attention for a few seconds.

>> No.38571867

>>38571721
>>38571794
Nevermind.

>> No.38571915

And now I'm leaning towards for the anti-ork superweappn.
>>38571755
Cool.

It wouldn't be much, just the craftworld passing through on their escape from Slaanesh's impending birth.
>>38571794
A water hose.

>> No.38571987

>>38571721
If it's any consolation, Darius probably would have killed the Xenos wretch anyway.

>>38571772
I read it, but I think it got lost in the rest. At the moment, I think the Imperial Cult is something that has to be set aside and looked at once the Heresy stuff is done. I know that's frustrating, but there's so much about the Legions and the campaign that isn't detailed that I'm reluctant to put tie-ins anywhere.

I mean, I was out for a walk today thinking about what I would actually do if I had the kind of dictatorial power over the project that I've been accused of wielding and I'd get rid of two of the Legions defending Terra. That might even be a good idea outside of my jack-booted daydreams!

>> No.38571989

>>38571721
"No, no you can't die yet, you haven't confessed. Marri Hu'lanna! You beat her! You set her on fire! You threw her off a building! Who gave the order?!"

>> No.38572081

>>38571498
>pic related

>>38571640
I just think that the initial wording made it sound like you had some sort of superweapon that would forever cleanse a planet without going through things like exterminatus or, y'know, leveling the entire planet.

>>38571566
>>38571721
Sounds good.

>>38571989
So much yes. I did watch all his scenes earlier today. Oberyn is the shit.

>> No.38572089

>>38571987
He struck me as the more benevolent type. If someone called out across the warp speaking to him as an equal.

At any case, for me it was a toss up between Aubrey(Hilariously, but that felt too much like Eldrad parallel than I wanted already) and Darius.

>> No.38572162

>>38571721
They turn to Khorne and join Ex-Sorcerer's band.

>> No.38572167

>>38572081
Ugh, I remember being so disappointed when I found out there wasn't actually a 40k anime.
At least I still have Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

>> No.38572264

>>38572167
It really does lend itself well to the medium. It's surprising it hasn't been done.

>> No.38572295

>>38572162
Khornate Eldar? Well, that's one way to get out from under Slaanesh's throbbing erections. Joining a human though? After what they've been through?

>> No.38572347

>>38572295
Huehuehue.

I was playing with the idea, but I concluded it was too much.

>> No.38572390

>>38572089
The Eldar had spent the last few centuries enslaving mankind - even going so far as to seize captives from the Solar System - and would generally be regarded as rather sad that their previously happy state of affairs had ceased to be. Jeron's revelation would have come across as, "How about you start a civil war?"

>> No.38572437

>>38572390
Never said it'd work, even with Darius, but I expected Darius to at least hear Jeron out if he carefully approached him.

>> No.38572618

>>38572437
The guy Jeron should have tried talking to is Octullus Tyran. The Phi Tai Hong knows that the character of a man is more important than the mask he shows to the world.

>> No.38572690

>>38571566
Lorekeepers are fine. Premonitions about humanity's psychic future is fine. There's probably ripples from the future or whatever.

Wanting to be friends with humanity seems contrived. He'd have to REALLY believe not just in the inevitable victory of Humanity, but the ultimate annhilation of the Eldar, and on top of that, he'd have to decide he didn't want to share the fate of his species. This seems odd for a Farseer to think. Ynnead needs every Spirit Stone after all. This could very much be a Farseer simply betraying his race, and I'd be surprised if there were *any* Eldar that didn't think so.

Helping the Great Crusade also seems a little contrived. Eldar don't want equals, they want lessers.

Laying low makes sense.

Foreseeing Uriel's plans is going to piss off his writer, I think. Prying into the minds of the Chaos Gods also implies an exceptionally powerful Farseer.

How does Uriel discover this Farseer? Does he go to the Craftworld somehow?

How do a Craftworld of lorekeepers meaningfully stop a massive onslaught of Marines? Or does Inferox just half-ass it and bring only a few Marines against a target he knows is huge?

>>38571721
I like the brutality of this part though. Why does Inferox reject Khorne here though? He's just murdered an entire Craftworld.

Jeron's failure makes sense, but it's still kinda janky somehow. Surely seeing what Marines were capable of shook his conviction? Or is he *really* that focused on his visions?

>> No.38573166

>>38572690
Maybe he didn't want friends so much as a giant bludgeon he could fend of the Eldar's enemies with.

As to the forseeing Uriel's plans and scrying the Chaos Gods minds, that could just be Tzeentch showing Jerom what it wanted him to see.

Uriel either felt Jeron screwing around trying to see the future, or he was informed by Tzeentch to screw over the Eldar while fooling Uriel into thinking that Tzeentch prizes him to much to be so easily ruined.

They don't stop Inferox, they get their asses carved off with chainaxes and handed to them. I'm a little confuzzled as to why Jeron wasn't on the Craftworld though.

>> No.38573200

>>38572690
what if Uriel launched an exceptionally brutal attack on the craftworld for prying into his shit?
Uriel seems like the kind of guy who would go absolutely apeshit if he found people spying on him rather than thr other way around

>> No.38573220

>>38573166
>Ensure not just the survival, but make sure they thrive. They will make sure that humanity becomes their peers, and help them avoid the failings of their past. The Eldar had their time, they should take their role as the elder race seriously to keep the upcoming dominant species alive.

That doesn't *sound* like a bludgeon, but I could be wrong.

>> No.38573298

>>38573200
So they get hit by Uriel, and presumably then see that Humans = Threats, and still keep to their mission?

Does Uriel just bounce off them? Does he not bring enough troops for the job?

Cause that would mean this is the only Craftworld I know of that actually gets attacked by not one, but two Legions. Which is kind of impressive in its own right, but seems very disproportionately important relative to the other Craftworlds.

I could see the Eldar using Arkender as a cautionary tale though, so it may make sense or be useful if Alexandri's going down that route.

>> No.38574169

Jeron was a radical, but all of Arkendar wanted humanity to thrive to lessen other threats to Craftworlds. Cooperation, with whatever intent, with a strong humanity would keep the Eldar alive. That was their intent. Jeron and his crowd wanted equals.

>>38572690
>How do a Craftworld of lorekeepers meaningfully stop a massive onslaught of Marines? Or does Inferox just half-ass it and bring only a few Marines against a target he knows is huge?

Uhm. They, don't?

Inferox denies Khorne because it's his last true act of defiance against fate, if you wish to look at in this way. It's Inferox being able to blink after looking at the abyss. It's him attempting to deny his debased nature, not give into the powers coming to his mind telling him that his actions are not only justified, but exalted. Arkendar should have been quick, instead it became a slog that saw the Eldar butchered beyond belief.

>Foreseeing Uriel's plans is going to piss off his writer, I think. Prying into the minds of the Chaos Gods also implies an exceptionally powerful Farseer.
I never intended for Jeron to get more than scraps, or even the ripples of their actions. Uriel is the centerpiece but he sees no other players, and his efforts to stop Uriel are pretty much just him and Arkendar stumbling about into any business they think is related.

>How does Uriel discover this Farseer? Does he go to the Craftworld somehow?
Jeron gets really sloppy.

>>38573166
>I'm a little confuzzled as to why Jeron wasn't on the Craftworld though.
He's attempting to warn a Primarch who'd listen to him about the coming Heresy, warning them to WATCH URIEL. He had no idea the attack was arriving. His foresight conveniently failing him at the most crucial time...

>>38573200
>>38573298
I wanted to show Uriel's cunning by using Inferox.

It is that route. Something that reminds other Craftworlds what happens when you try to treat humans as anything more than animals.

>> No.38575710

>>38571987
OK, I have a bit more time up my sleeve, let me lay out my thoughts on a last cut and push for the end of the Heresy. I would cut SIX more Legions, down to to Eighteen with two missing, as in the OU. The unlucky six would be:

1. The Crusaders. Let's face it: they have been running on donations for months. The only reasons that a cut hasn't been considered previously are that Thomas-anon pops in from time to time (but he doesn't write) and that they were assigned to Terra and given some Imperial Fists jobs. The former, with respect, just doesn't cut it. As for the defence of Terra? I think their job could be assigned to the Silver Cataphracts without losing much at all.
2. The Scions of Europa. This is pretty much the same problem, but Kleisthenes' sons also blur into Hektor's. Getting one of those two operational is bad enough without trying to write two Greco-Roman Legions that are really prominent. We just don't need them, not when the Stone Men could be fortifying Terra instead.
3. The Entombed. They are a narrative dead end. There's nothing for them to do after the Heresy, save for lose their concept. I'm not sure how conscious Golgothos-anon is of this problem, but his hostility to the project moving on from the Heresy appears to reflect the problem - once we were done with the Siege of Terra and moving on, what would be left for him to do? I don't see any reason why the ideas couldn't be recycled in the form of a Successor or Doomed Chapter of another Legion.
4. The Horns of Ruin. I don't think this one needs to be strongly argued. Vetrovnak's project could be fallout from the Legion Wars.
5. The Bloodbound. We really don't need another tribal close combat Legion.
6. The Gorgers. No matter whose project they are, to finish them would be an almost total rewrite.

(I'll go on to corollaries and consequences in a fresh post.)

>> No.38575889

>>38575710
>LCK
Although this is a somewhat lousy thing to do to the guy, I would ask him to work his ideas into the Scale Bearers. Simply replacing Tiran with Camaxtli is not going to break the Legion and making the Sors more peripheral would probably strengthen them.

>Thirteenth Legion
I'd rename them "The Justicars" and establish their major role in the Great Crusade as counter-insurgency. This supports the spygames feel without the need for extravagant assumptions about extra-Imperial cloak-and-dagger mischief. Their first contact with Chaos could come about through their bread-and-butter. Note that the Justicars would be the ones to raze Lazarus - but Uriel would be the first to express his regrets to Aubrey, e.g. "I was only following the Emperor's Truth. Isn't that what we all stand for?"

>Thunder Kings
I'd "even out" their traitor theme by exporting Sacred Band-led insurrections through most of the Loyalist Legions. Not only does this put the TKs back into play for more fun with the Black Augurs, it cuts down on the need for an Isstvan equivalent and establishes why the Fifth are so highly-regarded at the end of the Heresy - they're the only Legion whose loyalty never came into doubt.

>> No.38576136

>>38575889
I suppose if it happens to most of the Loyalists, Brennus wouldn't really need to be placed on eternal penitent crusade. I mean, not unless he's the only one who owns up to it.

>> No.38576303

>>38576136
Yeah, definitely. All the stuff about getting rid of Legions (in the narrative) was a sign that we needed to get rid of Legions (in the project).

>> No.38576570

Guys, this is really cool. I've been lurking a bit but IDK how I can contribute. It all seems so damn *big* and overwhelming.

I have some fluff chapters that I could shove in as later Founding successors, make up some more Guard units, a (later) Inquisitor or two.

tl;dr where would you suggest someone who just got on board with the Hektor Heresy start?

>> No.38576609

>>38576570
To start with Hektor Heresy? Read the timeline.

Then find a Legion you want to make a warband of or successor chapter.

Write it up, post in pastebin in thread, receive input.
Or, come up with a cool idea for a world, have them contribute IA to the war effort, talk to people to add them to conflicts. They feature prominently in any of the big ass battles we have, from Istvaan to Terra!

>> No.38576646

>>38576570
Probably Imperial Army/Guard. While the two are a bit different, the information on the AU formations is digestible and 40kwiki's article on the IA isn't that long (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army).

>> No.38576706

>>38576609
>tfw Alex won't pay attention to me
>tfw not even sanding off Pallas Eugenesis' page is enough
>tfw not even suggesting cuts to the number of Legions will do

>> No.38576712

>>38575710
So, I think I should mention my concept for the Doctrine of Rosskar's Bastards. The Silver Cataphracts idea is that they have an elite fleet. Not the biggest, but five huge ass ships that form the backbone, supported by other huge ass ships(I'm not good at Voidship Classes). Not big in number, but formidable. The 'elite' of the Legion serves aboard these vessels, while the regular marines work on transports and landers, fighting on the ground. So they aren't a Navy Legion, but their elite Navy is where they draw strength.

Would this make Alexandri the Emperor's Praetorian?

What happens to Kleisty? Who's Hektor's bro?...shit. Holy fuck. I just got it. Arelex. Hmm, now for the sacrificial lamb...

Arelex or Darius as Sanguinous could work too.

I'm not totally for ALL of these cuts. I'd say we could cut the Horns and Scions without any fuss. Then cut the Gorgers and Silver Cataphracts :D I keed but also not really.

>>38576706
Shush.

>> No.38576756

>>38576303
>>38575710
I can agree with cutting the Crusaders, but apart from that I'm gonna wait to hear more from others, especially those with active (or at least semi-active) writers.

>>38576570
Read through the wiki pages, familiarize yourself with the major players, maybe throw out a non-Legion proposal.

>>38576712
Hey, yeah, I was just thinking about the Praetorian bit. If Alexandri has five huge Phalanx-esque ships, he'd be pretty good for the job. I mean, he can have at least one or two at Terra.

>> No.38576800

>>38576712
>elite fleet
>tfw Fifth Legion even has elite fleet rules for BFG

>Would this make Alexandri the Emperor's Praetorian?
Yes, though Onyx is the one entrusted with the defence of Terra.

>What happens to Kleisty?
Major character in the Heralds of Hektor. He works just fine being the most prominent Herald who stays true to the Imperium.

>sacrifical lamb
Might not be necessary, because strict parallels aren't always a good idea.

>> No.38576824

>>38576706
Pallas Eugenesis's cruelty is played up, and I like it.

>>38576756
>Phalanx sized

Dude the Phalanx is big enough to be a planetoid. It rivals an Ark Mechanicus. FIVE OF THEM TO ONE LEGION? FIVE OF THOSE EXISTING?

No, nononono.

I just thought of an extension of Alexandri's pragmatic doctrine of blowing up worlds that don't comply on the spot unless there is something worth fighting over. If they can win the Naval war, they don't care about the ground.

>>38576800
>Void Angels have an elite fleet
Give me.
Some.
Thing.

>Loyalist Traitors
You're going to spike Arelex again. And others.

>Might not be necessary, because strict parallels aren't always a good idea.
Then something must be introduced to fill the dramatic void.

>> No.38576928

>>38576824
>Give me.
>Some.
>Thing.
>tfw I made you the Emperor's Praetorian

>Loyalist Traitors
I don't want there to be Loyalist Chapters descended from Traitors. The OU Traitor Legions all had Loyalist among them. My proposal is simply that newKleisthenes fights and dies to defend the Imperium from his gene-sire. He wins no laurels, no reward, no legacy. He simply does what is right.

IMO, this makes him more awesome.

>dramatic void
Building Terra up as a big deal certainly has to happen, but perhaps not as a fateful duel between the Emperor and the Warmaster. The Cult Legions unleashing Hell on Earth could certainly be built up as an alternative crisis that requires an immense sacrifice from the Emperor.

>> No.38576931

>>38576824
No, not phalanx sized. Just kinda LIKE that. Big unique vessels, with huge amounts of firepower. Enough to Exterminatus a planet on it's own, if that's not too much.

>> No.38577030

>>38576928
>I made you the Emperor's Praetorian
Something that I never wanted and doesn't help the problem that is my blandest Legion under my care.

>Kleisty and his ilk dying an inglorious death
I think everyone can agree to that.

Also, you realize this is both more aggressive and ambitious than the changes I wanted, that you endlessly fought against, correct?

And that because it's coming from you people might just up and leave thinking you're taking the project from the hands of the people?

This is not what I'm thinking, but what others will say, and might cause the project to implode. Let's just agree on the Legions that can go without a fight or broken hearts, Bloodbound, Horns of Ruin, Gorgers, Scions of Europa, Silver Cataphracts no I joke is funny I know I make joke again repeatedly in the future.

>> No.38577131

>>38577030
You realise that with the Crusaders gone you could make the Silver Cataphracts the based Siberian Guards Shock Tank Army they were born to be, right?

>what others will say
I do not demand that this happens. I am merely making a proposal in the open, without any attempt to win over a faction to my cause ahead of time. If people want to say no to it because I put the idea forward, so be it.

>> No.38577133

>>38575710
Okay dude, I saw you fight for the Entombed not to be in the Stone Men before, so what gives? What CHANGED?

>> No.38577189

>>38577131
>Being able to fully take the Soviet doctrine as it was but in 40k's Legionary Wars

Please don't tempt me motherfucker.

The Crusaders have content, and are in the History.
I'd have to do a ton of writing, but it wouldn't be just me.
It'd be others. The purpose of cuts is to lessen the burden, not add to it.
I also feel like it's a kick in the teeth to Thomas who probably can't even defend himself for a long while coming. I'd pretty much steal his shtick just to slap Russia over it too.

Anyways, I gotta go to bed. I'll be on early then be busy.

>> No.38577358

>>38577133
I realised that I had made a mistake and I'm trying to correct it.

>>38577189
Thomas Gaudin hardly exists as a character. Take a look at
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Thomas_Gaudin
And bear in mind that the Great Crusade section is copypasta from the Imperial Fists.
There's also copypasta at:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Crusaders
and apart from that most of the content is the Sacred Band that I wrote.

I don't have anything against Thomas, but he really hasn't been involved in the project. Two more links:
http://1d4chan.org/index.php?title=The_Crusaders&offset=&limit=250&action=history
If you scroll right down to the end of the page, after my edits, the Captain's edits, edits I made anon to add in the Nova Defenders, you'll see Thomas' most recent stuff. Here's what the page looks like without anyone else's contributions:
http://1d4chan.org/index.php?title=The_Crusaders&oldid=242860

>> No.38577412

>>38577358
Oh, wait, that's a little unfair, Thomas seems to have had a second IP he used. He did write the youth section for Thomas Gaudin and expanded on the Tactics and Overview of Legion X. It's still pretty minimal. There are (many!) Successors with more.

>> No.38577938

>>38576570
Anon here, I have an Imperial Army submission. Tried something a little different and tripfagging from here on out.

http://pastebin.com/1iNPWANr

The Skoptsi Redeemers.
(The Redeemers' religious zeal and odd fanaticism would translate well into a 'fallen' Imperial Army unit. They're cultists waiting to happen, basically.)

>> No.38578101

>>38577938
Hmm. I don't want to discourage you, but this doesn't quite fit into the Atheistic tenets of the Great Crusade era. We could squeeze them in if one of the Traitor Legions pacifies Skoptsi really late - like the last few years of the Great Crusade, right before the rebellion of the Hektor Heresy begins - and doesn't enforce Compliance on them. Would that work OK for you?

>> No.38578130

>>38578101

Sure. Again, as I started writing them I realized they were shaping up to be Cultists. And I saw that there looked to be none of those made yet on the Wiki, so I kept rolling with it.

>> No.38578171

>>38578130
OK. We'll have to see which of the Legions makes most sense. If I was going to guess, I'd say the Black Augurs (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Black_Augurs) with their post-Nikaea "fuck the police" attitude would do this sort of thing, but the anons working on other Legions might want to stick their hands up.

>> No.38580165

Abyssal Reavers anon quite rightly wanted the Chapter put on the Galaxy page, but there isn't really a good set-up for that. I've implemented a temporary solution, but ultimately we'll need Segmentum pages in order to organise the project's growing content.

>> No.38580439

why are we back to cuts as a solution?

they didn't help last time

>> No.38580595

>>38580439
>why are we back to cuts as a solution?
>they didn't help last time
Last time, the problem explained was "bloat" and "too many Legions". I recall a major objection to the current state of the project being raised was that on-lookers kept asking "why are there so many Legions". (One might fairly reply to that, "Why not?") Worse, the discussion of cuts was carried out in the back rooms and other motives were definitely in play. The move failed because it was (rightly) seen as manipulative.

I am proposing cuts mainly to reduce the writing that needs to be done before the Heresy period can be called "generally complete" and the way opened to laying out the Reformation. Five of the Legions identified still require a lot of development just to get up to a "bare bones" status (general history mapped out, organisation and culture explained, Primarch's biography established). The last is singled out to cut simply because they don't fit any other period and I believe that they would lose their essential character if that problem was overcome. (I'm offering this as an explanation of the thinking behind >>38575710, not a replacement.)

>> No.38580611

>>38575889
>Camaxtli leads the Scale Bearers
I see where you are coming from and acknowledge that this is an attempt to cut the fat from the project while keeping the most developed portions and working from there. However, the re-write is coming along. Camaxtli's page is effectively done and can only improve with input and tweaking.

At this point I am about to work on the newGorger legion itself which will fully flesh out what the legion is. Certainly it's incomplete but at the very least being worked on now. If the group still doesn't like the idea when the legion page is done I'll scrap the whole thing.

>> No.38580657

>>38580595
see that seems reasonable, given the fear over how it was handled last time yet it wouldn't save us time overall as it would require significant rewriting to pretty much every major aspect we have spent the last 3-4 months hashing out.
twice already dammit

last time the 2 legions that were actually cut had active anons and had a fair amount of content (KoJ more on the drawing board of 2 anons than on the wiki but that was still potential content)

you and others wrote up content for the 2 legion who were most in need of actual cutting last time around: the Eyes and the SK
why would you do that only to cut more now?

we should have just cut those 2 legions and maybe 2 more at most by this point.

its getting silly if the answer to every question is "cuts!"

And even sillier if we give a damn about what other people think of what we write
"thats too many legions"
"so what?!"

we may as well cut the project then as its preventing us from getting on with real life, right?

We lose what we have been creating only to force us onto the next step
where we will probably start to lose steam like some of us have now
and what then?
yet more cuts?

>> No.38580748

>>38575710
Hold the phone a moment.

So here's what I'm getting from this:

You were pissed at Uriel because way back in thread 1 he was trying to keep it at 20 Legions before it was decided, "screw it, there's some good ideas being kicked around, let's make it 30."

Then when Alexandri was trying to get support and help (good intentions, bad execution, sorry, dude), you showed him support in the holdfast fiasco.

When he went public and there was a huge backlash, you verbally chided him for everything, and renounced his ideas saying you never gave them support.

Now you're advocating cutting the number of Legions back down again. Though you did support it a while ago, too, I have to admit.

Please, clarify on this subject. I'm being a dick and I know it, but I would like to know what exactly is the train of thought here.

>> No.38580839

>>38580657
>it would require significant rewriting to pretty much every major aspect we have spent the last 3-4 months hashing out.
No, it wouldn't. The span of the re-writes is actually pretty limited. Most of the writing in which Thomas Gaudin features is plagiarised, so it has to be re-written anyway. Kleisthenes barely gets a mention off his own page. Golgothos is linked to other Primarchs, but mainly on his page. The three Chaos Legions on the block are very isolated in the fluff.

>last time
I think that the last round of cuts was carried out in an extremely counter-productive manner.

As for the two Legions most in need of cutting, I don't agree with your assessment. I have tried to get the Scions and the Crusaders worked up, and both are extremely bland ideas. The Sand Keepers and Eyes of the Emperor are better concepts and their development since Alex's cuts reflects that superiority.

>its getting silly if the answer to every question is "cuts!"
Yes, it is. But we're nowhere near that point, so why say a thing like that?

>>38580748
>Uriel in thread 1
I think that he behaved like a dictator at that point. Proposing something to the thread is not a dictate. I'm comfortable that I'm being consistent on this point.

>When he went public and there was a huge backlash, you verbally chided him for everything, and renounced his ideas saying you never gave them support.
No, I didn't. I did write this (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/37533853/#37553388), but that's not the same thing. I also wrote (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/37533853/#37556006 and >>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/37533853/#37556218) when the terms of the agreement started spinning away from what I remembered seeing on IRC. In particular, the remark:
>I think an open discussion is more likely to inspire trust.
is relevant to this situation. I think you expressed similar sentiments in that thread when you said that you didn't like politics, backstabbing, or being used.

>> No.38580908

>>38580748
>>38580839
As for the question of "cut or not cut", I don't have any long-standing principle. My view on why to cut now is laid out in >>38580595. Simply put, there is an awful lot of writing to get through just to get a genuine foundation for the Heresy campaign, and it's not particularly fun, glorious stuff. If it was one anon, one Legion, that wouldn't be so bad, but there are basically just a couple of people tidying up the abandoned legacy stuff.

And sadly, the vision of getting great new anons in to finish those Legions has turned out to be a mirage, as is clear from the current state of the Bloodbound.

>>38580611
>Camaxtli's page is effectively done and can only improve with input and tweaking.
Come on, be objective. You don't have anything on Camaxtli's fate in the Heresy. If you're writing him as a Chaos Primarch, establishing and explaining his fall is absolutely essential.

Now, as for the proposal, if you were to transplant Camaxtli into Tiran's place as a Loyalist Primarch at the head of the Scale Bearers, you would only have to cut four sentences. I realise that the effect on your notes would be rather greater, but I don't think my proposal involves totally junking your ideas.

>> No.38580935

>>38580839
>>it would require significant rewriting to pretty much every major aspect we have spent the last 3-4 months hashing out.
>No, it wouldn't.
So the Heresy itself, many of the battles, Terra, all, and several ideas for the post-scouring stuff would be.

The EZ would need more rewrites too

>last time
how it was carried out is moot here
the point i made is that the cuts that were made there were stupid

the 2 most in need of cutting were not cut because you decided to protect them and essentially blocked that going through

yet now you want to cut several legions, some of which have active anons that you don't like or haven't gotten on with previously

>bland ideas
you essentially wrote the Ultramarines

>The Sand Keepers and Eyes of the Emperor are better concepts
says you
who wrote them no less

>so why say a thing like that?
because you made a "joke" about being a tyrant
then moved ahead with said "joke" as a real proposal despite literally 0 support for it

but lets look at facts
you have lead the charge on several legions being cut in the past
from Rook North to the inactive legions from thread 1

>Uriel
>Behaved like a dictator
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

*YOU* call him a dictator?
You are closer to that label than he

I vaguely recall him actually saying he shouldn't lead the project and stepping aside too
he is a vocal and tiresome argumentative anon who needs to shut up and write more, but he was never a tyrant

>When he went public and there was a huge backlash, you verbally chided him for everything, and renounced his ideas saying you never gave them support.
is actually pretty accurate
spin it how you like, you chose your words carefully enough as you always do
but i dont think Alex wouldnt have gone ahead without your support

>>38580908
>as is clear from the current state of the Bloodbound
largely due to you being unbelievably toxic to new anons
even actively telling them to stop wasting your time and implying they leave

>> No.38580950

>>38580908
Ah, so you have read it. You are absolutely right.

My point is that I simply haven't written his fall yet, and more specifically am actually following your advice on Camaxtli's discussion page.

>Heresy Leave it blank. You can fairly cite the upheaval in the general conception as a reason for not proceeding.

I assume 'general conception' refers to the main thread? If the issue is a lack of foreshadowing, I can add more writing. But did not at this time for brevity's sake.

>>38580935
Interesting.

>> No.38580989

>>38580935
That posting style looks quite distinctive, but if you don't want to reveal who you are I suppose you can carry on skulking in the shadows like a coward.

That said, I find it particularly funny to be accused of choosing my words carefully! The implication that I drove away the Bloodbound-anon would be a good joke, but perhaps you really mean that? Do you have anything to back that up? A thread in which both of us posted would be a good start!

>> No.38581044

>>38580839
>>38580989
>open discussion
Yes. If he wants to remain anonymous for whatever reason, let him. Calling him a coward because he doesn't necessarily want to cause backlash from others on account of what he's saying is understandable. I'm open about my statements because, well, I don't care. I've been on this project long enough that most people have pretty much already made up their minds about me, and if putting my questions forward is something that turns people toxic, than it's not my problem.

That being said, open discussion was exactly what I had in mind about that question. And, no, Alex wouldn't have moved forward with his ideas unless he thought you had his back. What I saw on IRC followed suit in those thoughts.

>> No.38581113

>>38580950
>your advice on Camaxtli's discussion page.
That advice is from a month ago when I thought you had a few days to get him into shape on pain of being turfed out.

>>38581044
I was about as involved in Holdfast as you were, but Alex decided to clown around and pretend that I was the dark lord. Vetrovnak testified to the former (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/37533853/#37563672 >>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/37533853/#37563736)

Now, I think you had the right to say, "Hold on, I'm not comfortable where this is going," when things came out in the thread. I did much the same thing.

>> No.38581119

>>38576570
Write all your ideas, any new blood is welcome. Then post them on here for critique, more grammar, spelling, and sentence structure than anything, and approval.

>> No.38581139

>>38580989
>That posting style looks quite distinctive, but if you don't want to reveal who you are I suppose you can carry on skulking in the shadows like a coward.
And you can continue ignoring and deflecting with toxic bullshit and continue pushing your ideas as ideas everyone agrees with while making those who disagree with you out to be villains

>The implication that I drove away the Bloodbound-anon
when did i mention bloodbound anon?
Do you need sleep or coffee or something?

see why i don't want to post with my name?
You've gone after me personally already rather than answer the points i raised

>>38580950
>Interesting.
how was that interesting?

>> No.38581145

>>38576824
Bro, what is your deal with the Cataphracts? The Hektor Heresy Legions' combat doctrines are predominantly amalgamations of the OU Legions. Admittedly this is more the case for some Legions over others like the Steel Marshalls, but there's still a lot to take inspiration from in the OU if you really need it.

>> No.38581208

>>38581139
>You've gone after me personally already rather than answer the points i raised
In this, I have only followed suit. You haven't discussed whether the rationale for cutting those Legions is sound, but instead want to divert the discussion to Holdfast, attack my character, and lionize Uriel-anon.

Still, I like your jokes. This one is very good:

>when did i mention bloodbound anon?
A: >>38580935
>>as is clear from the current state of the Bloodbound
>largely due to you being unbelievably toxic to new anons

>> No.38581210

>>38581139
Actually, your sentence structure does imply that he caused Bloodbound specifically to leave.

>>38581113
Alex came to me about it, I told him I wasn't exactly comfortable with everything, but understood what he was saying, and sat down and watched several people discussing the future of what was going to be my and Uriel's Legion. To include yourself on that. My brief exposure was most of what made me rant. And a comment of "You need Uriel to play ball for this to work." That was, specifically, you. Now, maybe I missed a whole lot of conversation where you lectured Alexandri on the dangers of posting out of publicity that I DIDN'T see, but I can't make that judgement. Lots of mistakes were made when that went down. I'm not trying to host blame on anybody, I'm trying to figure out your train of thought between thread 1 and now.

>> No.38581310

>>38581210
>I'm trying to figure out your train of thought between thread 1 and now.
I wasn't in thread 1. I have referenced it. The issue there was that *people* were being told to move along because Uriel believed that there was no place for them. I've never done that, not even in Kill Bambi. (You'll recall, perhaps, that in that thread I called for converting Legions that were problematic into Chapters, and I've largely made good on that.)

In Holdfast, I went along with things because Alex was talking about getting rid of the CoA and at the time I had no constructive suggestions for them - the project was "worth the price of admission". As soon as that was removed, I cut my ties with the Holdfast proposal and wanted to reconsider the cuts being mooted. The only ones that I didn't stall were the cuts levelled at Legions in the hands of other anons - those guys agreed to ditch the Legions, so I wasn't exactly in a position to stop them.

I've spent the time I bought at the end of Holdfast going over the abandoned Legions and trying to complete, rather than re-write, them. I've also been thinking about the CoA and I think the proposal in >>38575889 is in good faith in that it expands, rather than detracts from, the basic ideas that Uriel-anon has pitched.

Does that clear things up?

>> No.38581462

>>38581310
Yes, it does. Thank you

>> No.38581490

>You haven't discussed whether the rationale for cutting those Legions is sound
>yet it wouldn't save us time overall as it would require significant rewriting to pretty much every major aspect we have spent the last 3-4 months hashing out.
>the Heresy itself, many of the battles, Terra, and several ideas for the post-scouring stuff would be.
>The EZ would need more rewrites too
>yet now you want to cut several legions, some of which have active anons

economically the benefits don't outweigh the disadvantages by much
it will be the third time we have to rehash the heresy battles from beginning to end.

>but instead want to divert the discussion to Holdfast,
I had and have no interest in discussing that
but it is somewhat relevant and i made a few remarks about it in context of these new "proposed" cuts.
It was not a discussion point.
and i had no idea it was called Holdfast
that seems unnecessary

>attack my character
i said you are more a dictator than uriel was.
neither of you are saints and neither of you are dictators

>lionize Uriel-anon.
you demonized him
i'm not lionizing him by countering that
its pretty clear he's difficult to work with

>>38581208
>>38581210
>Actually, your sentence structure does imply that he caused Bloodbound specifically to leave.
thats my mistake
I meant to copy more than that

Bloodbound anon left us for unknown reasons
but you have chased off, or more accurately, contributed to the leaving of other anons
its no secret you are caustic though
so some of that is to be expected, maybe even needed.
but you contribute to the lack of new anons showing up to take legions over

>> No.38581599

>>38576712
>>38576824
Aight cyka, there's two ways to fix your issue:
1. Your problem is a little bitch. It's not a question of "if", it's a question of "when." Look at both the AU and the OU Legions, realize the massive amounts of copypasta going on, and carve up the Legion Doctrines into the frankenstein you want the way everyone else did.
2. You want the SC to be Russian Death Guard? Have them be Russian Death Guard! You want the ballest fleet? Have the ballest fleet! The VA have a sentence at the bottom of their page saying they have a dope fleet, but yours can be the dopest no problem. The SC can be all your previous ideas combined, and even more if you want. Do what you want.

Fuck Chechnya. Be the butterfly.

>> No.38581681

>>38581599
The absolute worst thing you can have in this AU, which I think I have to remind people is for-fun, is a "baby" that you either dislike, or are otherwise disappointed in what they could've been.
Have fun.

>> No.38581704

>>38581490
>we have to rehash the heresy battles from beginning to end.
There's still a huge amount of plagiarised content on the timeline that has to be gotten rid of. Beyond that, fuck all has actually been written.

>you have chased off, or more accurately, contributed to the leaving of other anons
This is a myth clung to by old hands who have had clashes with me. I'm actually the most likely to greet new contributors and endeavour to help them. Problems typically arise when my advice is ignored and I'm expected to keep on helping.

Let's look at an example of this in action. Take the case of "Dave the Specky". He showed up here:
>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/35119508/#35131059
and my responses in that thread tried to lay out the general situation: submitting a Primarch was a lot of work and I didn't expect it to go well. He opened up with an idea that he thought was bad and it got torn down by others.
When Dave came back in the next thread (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/35144820/#35150859) I was the only one who took the time to read his stuff. I did think it was problematic, but the verdict
>It's a cute idea and a I appreciate the references, but you haven't made them fit into 40k.
is not exactly "get out of my thread". Other anons ignored the conversation and I ended up with Dave by telling him (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/35144820/#35156515)
>If you want to write up another draft and come back to us, I'll definitely read it.
Dave came back with his draft in the same thread (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/35144820/#35173317)
Alexandri actually replied to Dave (admittedly saying that the idea didn't have many merits), but for whatever reason the anon felt that a discussion with me was more likely to be fruitful...

>> No.38581849

>>38581490
>>38581704
(cont)
I laid out the issues I saw and even mentioned what I liked, then cautioned good old Dave that (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/35144820/#35174394)
>Please understand that even if the narrative wasn't a problem these guys would be very unlikely to be included for the reasons Alexandri laid out above. I'm giving you detailed advice to help with future projects, not because I really think this one can be salvaged.

He seemed to take that to heart and put away the Crimson Hammers, only to come back with the Saracens (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/35144820/#35179020)
and got told pretty sharply by Arelex and Lore that mechanized warfare was already taken.

Next thread, Dave wanted to try pitching the Saracens to me, hoping for a better response. I was losing patience, so (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/35185984/#35189802) got a short shrift:
>Your draft still mentions Crimson Hammers. I feel like you're wasting my time at the moment.
Which for a lot of people would be a sign that maybe bugging Lumey with your drafts wasn't a good idea. Dave did not take the "hint" and kept on pointing me at his work. Now, I want to stress that if I'd done what everyone else did and just ignored the guy and treated him like he was completely worthless, he never would have gotten to this point. But he did and he asked me to look at his work again (without much alteration, in >>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/35185984/#35196464)
And he got told that he was getting on my nerves and needed to work up a more serious proposal. Or as I said at the time:
>Honestly not sure if you're trolling at this point. General advice: If you are trolling, you're putting way too much work into it. If you're not, I suggest thinking these drafts through before writing them.

At this point, the hallowed protectors of new anons swooped in to chide me for my harshness. Dave came back later for a final word (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/36274157/#36347429)

>> No.38581874

>>38581704
There's still a huge amount of plagiarised content on the timeline that has to be gotten rid of. Beyond that, fuck all has actually been written.

What did you expect? This... Whatever it is, is straight up a copypasta of the OU with different Primarchs and Not!Legions. Plus, a great majority of namefags and anons have dropped off and have left their infant submissions as essentially obstacles now that have to be written around of.

Honestly, before we even keep going with the Timeline and the individual campaigns and stuff, we should at the very least get the Legions straightened out completely. The ones who still have people writing for them should be left alone, but those left to die should get cannibalized by everyone else.

>> No.38581891

>>38581704
> I'm actually the most likely to greet new contributors and endeavour to help them.
thats very true

believe it or not, that bit about you chasing people off wasnt a dig.
Just pointing out that you contribute to the tone of the thread as people often defer to you and you have an authority here regardless of whether you believe it or like it.

>There's still a huge amount of plagiarised content on the timeline that has to be gotten rid of. Beyond that, fuck all has actually been written.
true enough
but it needs to be written then, right?
Cutting would prevent the need to write it, but it comes with costs too.
If the group came to a concensus on what happened where and with who, changing it once more will not help people who are spinning their wheels as it will mean yet more rewrites which won't get done

You've done a lot of writing thank god you have so much free time and the enthusiasm to keep going and thats helped move things along
but others need to write too
thats the issue
its not that things need cutting
its a case of morale and enthusiasm
of agency
people need to be motivated into writing again
which will likely take some compromise and patience but will be far more worth it in the end

>> No.38581999

>>38581849
Oh, one more reference to Dave, because this thread is really telling. He comes in to talk IA (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/36417778/#36433098) and largely gets ignored. This is his last project post in the archives (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/36417778/#36510623):
>What happened to Lumey?

New people don't get chased off. They get frozen out.

>>38581874
>Honestly, before we even keep going with the Timeline and the individual campaigns and stuff, we should at the very least get the Legions straightened out completely. The ones who still have people writing for them should be left alone, but those left to die should get cannibalized by everyone else.
Totally agree, that's the intent behind >>38575710 and >>38575889.

>>38581891
>that bit about you chasing people off wasnt a dig.
But it was a self-serving falsehood.

>Group consensus
If you're talking about the Uriel-led consensus while I was away, I don't feel any need to be bound by it. There are other returning anons in the same position. Quite simply, we have the right to challenge the old ideas and suggest something new. And as I intend to do that anyway, we might as well get the (reduced roster of) Legions worked up first, then look at the Heresy campaign again.

>people need to be motivated into writing again
Voidy already said it (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/38511770/#38561735):
>Go back a little ways to December through January when Lumey wasn't here and look at how little work got done. From anyone. It kinda stagnated because no one was inciting productive discussion.

>> No.38582047

>>38581999
>If you're talking about the Uriel-led consensus while I was away, I don't feel any need to be bound by it.
so if its led by someone else other than you its a problem?
or is it just specifically about Uriel?

>> No.38582068

>>38582047
>so if its led by someone else other than you its a problem?
No, but if it happened while I was away I wasn't part of the consensus.

>> No.38582081

>>38582068
other people have left and the project moved on while they weren't here.
they didn't get a say then but they had to deal with it

what makes you special?

>> No.38582107

>>38582081
>what makes you special?
Nothing. Only a few minutes ago, I wrote that
>There are other returning anons in the same position. Quite simply, we have the right to challenge the old ideas and suggest something new.

>> No.38582143

>>38582107
you missed the point

if other anons have left and came back and tried changing things you would tell them to live with it

but whatever you dont entertain other peoples points of view let alone ever accept you could be wrong

so have it your way
im done

>> No.38582195

>>38582143
>if other anons have left and came back and tried changing things you would tell them to live with it
This is totally unfair. If I'd actually done that, then you'd have the right to call me a hypocrite. But I haven't, and my usual way of dealing with people is not to tell them that they can't differ, but to very firmly state how I differ with them. If (for example) Sargon came back and said he thought the Barrow Lords got an unfair shake and he really wants us to read over his expanded draft, I would look at the document and say what I thought was wrong with it.

>> No.38582202 [SPOILER] 

>>38582143
Are... Are you leaving?

Please don't go, man.

>> No.38582220

>>38582202
Dammit, that picture was supposed to be on the post I was working on before. Oh, well.

>> No.38582308

>167th Gethsemane Rifles, "The Killing Jesters"
>Planet of Origin
Gethsemane
>Commander
Alam Quinn, Aryotta
>Specialisations: Urban Warfare, Psychological Warfare, Close Combat fighting

The 167th are the rejected military force of Gethsemane. After their integration, their tithes based on population exceeded the number of willing volunteers on the planet. As the underhive areas teemed with gangs, criminals, and vagabonds, the newly instated Lord Governor decided to kill two birds with one stone. He enacted a draft, cleaning out many of the seedier parts of his world, sending them to Imperial Army training to become a new Regiment, the 167th. Maintaining standard discipline within the troops proved to be problematic. Fights broke out constantly. Underground gambling dens appeared and grew faster than high command could bring them down. Fraternization was rampant.

To move further problems under the rug, Aryotta Quinn, promoted to the planetary rank of Alam by the Iron Rangers, was placed in charge. While she was unable to quell the issues, she did turn them into a means of controlling troops, improving morale, and training them. Fighting between soldiers was allowed and encouraged, so long as it was under controlled circumstances. Gambling and fraternization was overlooked, so long as it followed certain unwritten rules. Their first encounter proved that their zeal for breaking regulations and unruly nature proved them to be a rather formidable force on the battlefield, as they moved forward and fought with a ferocity and tenacity rarely seen in unmodified humans.

>> No.38582325

>>38582195
im not talking about new anons trying to submit things

with that you are very good and people have a huge misconception of you.

I mean for example when people take hiatus, like merrill, or arelex or uriel, for work or any reason, when they come back they just have to work with what the group agreed to.

and you aren't a hypocrite on it, as nothing got written up. But it took a month just to get everyone on the same page, not everyone was happy about every aspect, but thats what compromise is.
Not everyone was happy about the cutting legions, yet that went through despite half the group not being for it.

The only point i'm actually making here is that when people leave they aren't a part of the concensus and we've not gone back and changed everything because they weren't happy about it when they returned.
They had to deal with it.

and in the wake of Holdfast or whatever, people are still rewriting or adjusting to the cutting of the 2 legions that were cut.
Cuts now will just undo the last 1-2 months "work" on rewriting and not help with the core problem - motivation to write.

I hope that was clearer and you are seeing my point more clearly.
Now i am out.

>>38582202
not leaving
just not much point in continuing the argument.
it'll probably happen anyway so i'm just wasting my time here.

So i'm leaving the argument and getting some air

>> No.38582421

>>38582308
These guys are definitely cool and should go on the wiki. The only thing I'd change is
>He enacted a draft, cleaning out many of the seedier parts of his world, sending them to Imperial Army training to become a new Regiment, the 167th.
A Hive World probably has a criminal underclass measured in the tens or hundreds of millions, so there should be a lot more regiments like the 167th. But that's OK, the IR need a lot of regiments like the 167th. I recommend saying that these are the best of the Gethsemane Rifles regiments raised in this manner and maybe throwing around a couple of other unit numbers and names as being also rather good.

>>38582325
>when people take hiatus, like merrill, or arelex or uriel, for work or any reason, when they come back they just have to work with what the group agreed to.
No, they don't. If they want to challenge it, they can. Anyone who has been pushing the "suck it up" line is a fucking asshole.

>and in the wake of Holdfast or whatever, people are still rewriting or adjusting to the cutting of the 2 legions that were cut.
>Cuts now will just undo the last 1-2 months "work" on rewriting
I pay pretty close attention to changes on the wiki and most of what's been done in the last six weeks has nothing to do with the Holdfast cuts. (To be honest, the only things that come to mind are the changes I made to the templates and index pages.)

I mean, if I'm wrong, by all means point me to the work that would be invalidated.

>> No.38582519

>>38582421
Still writing things out, too. Had to take the dog out.

>> No.38582559

>>38582325
Go do that. I think it would be best if everybody calmed down for a bit.

>Lumey, that goes for you too.

>> No.38582616

>>38582308
The favored weapons of the regiment were reflections of their methods of combat. Flamers, grenade launchers, meltaguns, shotguns, and carbines filled the armories. They were quick and brutal, navigating city streets and buildings destroyed by artillery as if they were their own. Few humans could withstand their assaults, and they always appeared from somewhere unexpected to annihilate their foes in short, brutal bursts.

Their successes were largely ignored by the Gethsemane command. They were given little to no commondations for their efforts and conquests. Other, prouder Regiments either refused to work with them or treated them as inferior. This, in turn, led to a complex within the Regiment. They considered it a large joke pulled by command. They were good at their job, but had no illusions on how the Lord Governor would react to hearing they had been eliminated. Their name derives itself from the self-awareness of the status of the unit mixed with their pride in their abilities.

>> No.38583340

>>38582616
>Alam Aryotta Quinn
Aryotta was born in the undercity of the primary hive of Gethsemane. She learned the rule of law was that one either became a member of a gang or spent life running from them. She preferred the former option. At an early age, she started selling narcotics and playing the stronger gangs in her area against each other. She developed her operation, selling more and more with each passing week. A few short years later and she was one of the youngest people on the planet to be running a cartel. Her secret was neither violence (which she was very capable at) nor threats (threatening someone only works if they think they can't win), but instead on her ability to judge people. She learned to fight when people expected her to run, and run when they expected a fight. She learned to attack without mercy. That fear, respect, and love were all different espressions of the same face. She built a clientele that spread throughout the hive, some she directly supplied, some through various chains of proxies. But few illicit substances, rumors, or contraband product was not touched by her organisation.

When the Iron Rangers first investigated the planet, it did not take them long to discover tendrils of her operation. Within hours they had traced it to its source. During diplomatic negotiations, Milwyr Cwyn were sent planetside, and a second set of negotiations had been initiated with Quinn. As diplomacy was failing with the planet's leadership, Quinn's network was getting fresh supplies of weapons, armor, and explosives. People she trusted were trained under watchful Astartes eyes, who then trained their people. within days they had weapons and troops distributed across the planet's surface.

>> No.38583679

>>38583340
>cont
As fighting broke out, her communications network and ability to read and understand her opponents came into play again, being able to swiftly take territory and simultaneously recruit more people to the cause. Within a week, few supporters of the old regime remained.

During the changing of command, Merrill awarded her with the title of "Aram," a high-level planetary officer title, for her dedication and service to the Emperor.

After the new government took office, Merrill's promotion quickly found itself to be problematic. Almost all the officers were of noble birth. The majority of the military considered her promotion to be a mistake at best, and spitting on their traditions at worst. The phrase "You can take a rat out of the gutter, but you can never take the gutter out of the rat" followed her. Her career and specialty in fighting only reinforced the phrase.

Her commission to the 167th was performed to shuttle her away from the rest of the officers. Being the first regiment formed of the undercity scum, it was only fitting to put her in command. If she turned them into a respectable fighting unit, all the better. If the regiment was lost in combat, it was no real loss.

In combat, the ability to read and judge her opponents was her greatest asset. She always stayed on the offensive, and always attacked wherever the enemy least expected. Counter-offenses always resulted in striking nothing but vacant fighting positions or were simply bait for a trap. Her knack became legendary amongst many, and she was tested several times for psychic potential. When the division amongst the Imperium came, she (and her regiment) followed the person who never doubted in her ability: Rogerius Merrill.

>> No.38583685

So I want to preface this by saying that I've been incredibly busy lately which is why I haven't been around and doing much. All that will calm down in the next two weeks and I should have time to work on finishing up the bringers and the Orks. I'm always lurking though.

>>38575710
This here is a great idea. It's bold and it's just what we need. I have often remarked that the Scions could get cut easily, but was always met with "but hektor" and am glad that the wind is blowing the other way. The BB and Gorgers have been total anomie, despite LCKs efforts, and getting rid of them would probably be best. I like the Entombed, but I agree with all the points that you've made on them. The horns never interested me and the crusaders are generic enough to be maintained in pieces of other legions. That's what I think on this in brief.

As for the whole other argument between Lumey and anon(s?) about a bunch of stuff which includes how new and absent anons are handled, Lumey's persona as editor in chief (an oft misunderstood, but wholely necessary role that he had burdened almost entirely by himself), and all that:

This project has been moving in a fucking circle. We have six anons on either side of the canoe rowing us round and round because every time we make some progress, the reactionaries edit it to death. There's a lot of bloat that needs streamlining and a cohesive narrative that would benefit from cuts that everyone seems to forget. It's easy for me, largely because the bringers weren't originally mine, to see my work as part of the larger whole and to bend it in order to fit. It isn't personal, its about making something decent and edible, right now we have too much going on and its slows things down.

>> No.38584419

At the DMV, bored beyond belief. Can people post their opinion on Phracts being in the Crusaders shoes?

>> No.38584591 [SPOILER] 

>>38584419
No, but I've got great news for you...

>> No.38585370

Reposting earlier IA submission.

http://pastebin.com/1iNPWANr

>Skoptsi 'Redeemers'
>Planet of Origin
Skoptsi Prime
>Commander
Colonel Mishah Petrob

Specialisations: Assault infantry (they're zealots turned into an army; and thus a work in progress)

Lumey, further up-thread, said the Redeemers need an Astartes Legion to be liberated by just prior to the Heresy. He suggested the Black Augurs-- either way the Redeemers are going to have to avoid conflict with the Imperial Creed until they swear themselves to the Ruinous Powers.

Please read and critique

>> No.38585400

>>38584419
So its been finalized then? The Crusaders, Scions, HoR's, BB, Gorgers, and Entombed have been gutted?

>Can people post their opinion on Phracts being in the Crusaders shoes?

Boo. The Mastodontii always did the rape-train doctrine better than the Crusaders, bonus points for style too. The Lions Rampant, don't have a Combat Doctrine on their page but I remember hearing that they were our version of the White Scars, specializing in Fast Attack. Though that is true for the Void Angels as well.

There's not much to cobble from the Crusaders' remains honestly. They're pretty much the Imperial Fists.

>> No.38585617

>>38585370
The "big regiments" thing is very unusual for the IA, who usually just crammed 3,000 warriors on a ship and called it a regiment. You could go a couple of ways on this. Perhaps the Redeemers' faith and the elites' indifference make for more crammed ships and somewhat larger outfits? (This is a cult to Nurgle waiting to happen, of course.)

Also, given that Skoptsi can probably tithe a few regiments a year, you might want to look at Petrob as the CO of the 1st (or other designated) Skoptsi Redeemers, a prominent regiment representative of the general type.

>> No.38586094

>>38585400
>So its been finalized then? The Crusaders, Scions, HoR's, BB, Gorgers, and Entombed have been gutted?
I don't think anyone's said that. At the very least Arelex and Uriel should have a chance to say their respective pieces. I'm actually a little surprised that Uriel hasn't chipped in, unless he stopped by and felt that "Hiding"-anon was making his points as well as he could.

>> No.38586115

>>38585400
Mastodontii are a column of armor unsupported going forward. This would be a Combined Arms assault with tanks leading the way.

The Lions Rampant is all about the bikes, Slaaneshi British Bikers.

>There's not much to cobble from the Crusaders' remains honestly. They're pretty much the Imperial Fists.

Because somebody decided they'd be.

>> No.38586227

>>38586115
I thought they were going to be the Wehrmacht Marines in a strange fusion of the third reich and the medieval crusaders
>fiefdom with knightly attributes but a nazi twist
>fuedalism and medieval themes combined with fascist and natsoc rhetoric
>turbo rapid-combined-arms

>> No.38586312

>>38586227
I think that's more impression made or talked about than what Gaudin put down on their page. When he was around for the painting he seemed to have the Crusaders only use tanks, no combined arms Wehrmacht goodness.

>> No.38586319

>>38584419
Lets go down the list of Legion Combat Doctrines so you can see what's been taken.

War Scribes- Logistics and Archeotech.

Sons of Fire- Yo dawg I herd you like fire so we put fire in your fire so you can fire while you fire.
Fire.

Void Angels- Fast Attack everything, literally the blitzkrieg. Night Lord's torture and display, but its cool 'cause we're the good guys, seriously, we're the goodest guys.

Lions Rampant- Fast Attack, that's it.

Life Bringers- "Wouldn't it be ironic if--"
"Yes, it would be." Chemical Warfare.

Children of Armok- Alpha Legion/CIA.

Black Augurs- Sneaky Psykers.

Eternal Zealots- Luna Wolves' command decapitation tactics.

Sand Keepers- Bruh.

Eyes of the Emperor- Snipers, Scouts, and artillery.

Iron Rangers- No longer on their page for some reason, but guerrilla warfare. Raven Guard/Viet Cong/Celts for flavor.

Thunder Kings- Logistics, something about chariots, only a single independent clause is spared for their supposed preference for close combat.

Mastodontii- Train going into too-small tunnel.gif But with armoured columns.

Scale Bearers- Oh my god these guys are Fast Attack too. Also dinosaurs. Salamanders.

Steel Marshals- "Hey, you know all those fuckheug walls and towers you built." "Yeah?"
"I don't give a shit." Combat engineers to 11.

Stone Men- "Imma nuke the fuck outta these guys from orbit, then I'm gonna drop your ass in the mile deep craters I just left all over the place." "Onyx, please."

>> No.38586364

>>38586312
I just think nazi marines are a cool and unique idea
add feudal knights/crusaders and you have a winning combo

>> No.38586454

>>38586319
>Void Angels- Fast Attack everything, literally the blitzkrieg. Night Lord's torture and display, but its cool 'cause we're the good guys, seriously, we're the goodest guys.
What's your sauce for this one?

>> No.38586460

>>38586115
>This would be a Combined Arms assault with tanks leading the way.

Yup, that's the blitzkrieg. If you go this route, you have to mention the Legion's air force. Seriously though, no one else uses their air force? Foh realzies?

>> No.38586542

>>38586319
>War Scribes- Logistics and Archeotech.
You forgot their fuckhuge navy.

>VA
>Fast Attack
What.

>Black Augurs- Sneaky Psykers.
They fight in melee, close combat is their preference, how can they be 'sneaky'?

>>38586460
Everyone uses their airforce. A Legion's doctrine is more preference than anything. Mastodontii still have excellent infantry, the Iron Rangers can fight symmetrically, the Life Bringers can fight without any chemicals just fine.

>> No.38586590

>>38586454
As a Legion
>The essential part of the Legion's doctrine is the role of military friction. Unlike other fighting organisations, the Fifth do not attempt to bring order to the battlefield but instead seek to overwhelm the enemy's ability to co-ordinate their forces. Once the opposition has been turned into an incoherent mass by the tempo of the battle, Gaspard Lumey taught the Legion to press home their advantage to destroy their enemy and make an example of them.

As a Chapter
>However, they generally prefer to destabilise their enemies using infiltrators. Against enemies who know fear, the advance troops kill targets of opportunity and leave the bodies in the open so that the enemy may know what awaits them, but their main role is to sow confusion in the rear.

The blitzkrieg I think is the most well-known form of maneuver warfare. Which explains my word choice.

>> No.38586693

>>38586460
most space marine land/air units serve the purpose of bringing more space marines to the fight
like, when are you ACTUALLY going to see a bunch of thunderbolts owned by a single chapter?
chances are they're valkyries

>> No.38586697

>>38586590
I think the blitzkrieg is the only reasonable bit there. "Fast Attack everything" and "torture and display" are the claims that were totally unsubstantiated. Your second quote only says that their scouts kill the enemy when they find them and don't hide the bodies, while the Fifth specifically base themselves on Tactical squads throughout their history.

>> No.38586735

>>38586542
>War Scribes- Logistics and Archeotech.
>You forgot their fuckhuge navy.
You are correct. I apologize.

>VA
>Fast Attack
>What.
Fast Attack=Attacking quickly, that's what Maneuver Warfare is all about.

>Black Augurs- Sneaky Psykers.
>They fight in melee, close combat is their preference, how can they be 'sneaky'?
The Black Augurs generally specialize in sneak attacks and ambushes, where they can put their precognitive abilities to best use.

That's copypasta'd from their page, sneakiness doesn't preclude close combat. Lions can be sneaky too you know.

>Everyone uses their airforce. A Legion's doctrine is more preference than anything. Mastodontii still have excellent infantry, the Iron Rangers can fight symmetrically, the Life Bringers can fight without any chemicals just fine.

I understand, it's just that no one even spares a sentence or two for their air force.

>> No.38586784

>>38586697
the void angels were always supposed to be terror/intimidation vlad the impaler style
I have no idea where the fast attack is coming from

>> No.38586856

>>38586784
>the void angels were always supposed to be terror/intimidation vlad the impaler style
Err. They were supposed to be terror/intimidation French Revolution style, but I was asked to tone that down when they pushed from Space Wolves francais to Ultramarines.

And I did that, because this is a group project and my initial ideas did not fit in with those of the rest of the group.

>> No.38586894

>>38586697
>"Fast Attack everything" and "torture and display" are the claims that were totally unsubstantiated.

To me at least, Fast Attack is exactly what it means: attacking quickly, rapidly attacking, whatever way you wanna cut it. If that's incorrect please correct me.

>>38586784
See, I'm not the only one who thinks they're the scary, intimidating dudes.

>while the Fifth specifically base themselves on Tactical squads throughout their history.
That is true. You put a lot of time and energy into their Organization and Special Units and it was unfair of me to just brush them off to the side.

>> No.38586916

>>38586894
We use Fast Attack as in the table top terms. It pretty much means use of bikes and aircraft.

>> No.38586959

>>38586364
Nazi marines with Crusader Knight house? Yes please. Can they have Knights Teutonic helmets too?

>> No.38587028

>>38586916
Ah, I get it now, thank you.

>> No.38587308

>>38568439
>1.
Seems a sensible move
but not the serving at his will
having her be Hektors adjutant would be preventing her from being a strong female character

>2.
I don't believe there was any beside some sentences you can read into

>3
not sure about that leaning on against

>4
not really my call
but something i need to abide by myself

>5
hmm I thought over what Lumey told me yesterday and I think her being seen in a mixed light - she is ranking people, so people she deems as beasts, or those who don't like the being ranked Aubrey's insecurity? she'd have mixed relations with.
Her political savvy wouldn't need to be direct, she has allies to work through and has her own skills to leverage to those who aren't with her or against her.

more on her, politics, and vis-a-vis Uriel later though

>one reference, Hektor, who adores the woman.
Add Uriel to that too, but again same as above

>>38568851
IA regiments for the IR?

seem cool

Gethsemane from the bible?

>>38568929
>probably the most horrible thing that any character in the project has said.
Lumey said
>I would prefer not to discuss Uriel Starikov.
That may be the harshest thing, considering Lumey made time for everyone else.

>I'm sorry I've been so damn slack it's like I hardly do anything around here geez
yeah you're holding up the project man get it together!

>>38569062
>stable partner
hardly seems necessary for a functionally immortal super soldier/general

Queen would be wrong though.
As would Empress.
Princess is more accurate
but there are other options

>>38569762
I'm annoyed that I can't figure them out
especially 2

>>38569862
are the SK not merged down into the SoF librarium now?

>> No.38587443

>>38587308
No, they are not. Check out the SK page and Darius's page. Really good work has been put on there.

>> No.38587486

>>38587308
Hello again! Much has been proposed in your absence and we would very much like your input.

Specifically, this >>38575710

>> No.38587580

>>38586856
If the Void Angels aren't terror troops, can the SC be? I know Vlad wasn't Russian but it could still be cool.

>> No.38587606

>>38568188
Heya guys, anything needed from me?

>> No.38587616

>>38587580
Of course that's not all they'll be, but it could be one of their "things".

>> No.38587653

>>38587606
If you could chip in on >>38575710 and perhaps >>38575889, that would be a big help.

>> No.38587654

>>38587580
>>38587616
I always meant for the SC to have a bad rep for being callous and ruthless, but now I'm rethinking all of even with this new protection of Terra status. So, maybe?

>> No.38587671

>>38587606
Yes. Your soul. Also, your input and thoughts.

>> No.38587723

>>38587671
Phones near dead. When I'm home

>> No.38587741

>>38587654
Regarding Terra, my suggestion is that Onyx gets recalled to defend the world proper. He's an expert in fortification and a good stand-up fellow.

Alexandri is tapped by the Emperor to fight the Traitors, because the Loyalists of the interior (Stone Men, Cataphracts, War Scribes, and Sand Keepers) need his determination and ruthlessness to survive the Heresy until reinforcements arrive from the periphery. This necessary appointment sets the stage for crisis at the end of the Scouring.

>> No.38587761

432nd Panter Armored Cavalry Regiment, "Platzhaltern"
Commander: Oberst Lukr, Hans
Specialisation: Rapid armor deployment, combined arms

Pante is an industrialised world, producing numerous mechanised Regiments for the Imperium. The 432nd Armored Cavalry is one such, and is equally lauded and disparaged. While they have a track record of excellent victories across the galaxy in the name of the Imperium, many believe that their commander achieves victory in a manner that takes too many risks. Gambling may be a way for many officers to pass the time, but it is not something that should be done on the battlefield.

The 432nd works by sending out Scouts on bio-engineered and augmented steeds to seek and report enemy locations and movements. This is followed by moving fast armored vehicles and transports to quickly penetrate enemy lines and attack them from the rear using a combined force of armor and heavy infantry to bring their enemies down. Conflicts fought in this method are quick and decisive, with the strategy giving way to quickly take territory from their enemies. While that basic framework is used by many Regiments on Pante, Oberst Lukr usually takes it several steps further. He pushes his men and vehicles to their absolute limits, believing the key to victory lies purely in momentum and firepower. Though effective, he is often chided for leaving his flanks and supply lines vulnerable.

In his past dealings, his methods have worked fairly well with the Iron Rangers, benefiting from their reports of the enemy to assault faster and more efficiently while the troops and equipment Merrill lends him have always proven themselves more than capable of handling his tactics. Lukr has often joked about Astartes being the only thing that could keep up with him.

>> No.38587869

Added the Skoptsi Redeemers to the wiki for an Imperial Army regiment.

>>38587761
I dig this.

>> No.38587889

>>38571566
so Jeron is essentially notEldrad?
in terms of role
And the Craftworld is on a strange mission to save humanity?
>Uriels plans
This would have to be late in the GC for Uriel to even have plans relating to chaos.
And as I'm going to explain in a bit, Uriel is pretty much tricked by TZ.
He does make plans though, and reading the fates is a bit iffy, so maybe thats what he sees...
Could be amusing for him to see Aubrey as the villain, and approaches Uriel as the only other primarch inclined to talk with xenos.
Although that would involve a lot of tense standoffs and Uriel ultimately ignoring him, not just because he's fallen, but because his vendetta against the eldar.

>Uriel
He would have to find that out fighting them, which makes this a bit far fetched as Uriel wouldn't leave any alive...
Maybe through corsair touts he gets info on Arkendar. Or TZ warns him...

>Sons of Fire spend the rest of the Crusade recovering, and even garners the attention of Inferox to Khorne.
Oh look at those flamey dude, they seem coo- oh wait no never mind, they haven't done anything cool in ages!

>This act allows Khorne to reach out... Inferox repulsed, and sent reeling
Wait Khorne reaches out to Inferox, before Aubrey or Hektor recruit him?

That seems a bit risky - the gods have pieces in play at this point - Uriel and Aubrey at the minimum.
Getting involved directly before the gods chosen apostle does his thing is risk with no gain.

Also Infy should get K's notice earlier. He's a violent dude when he wants to be...

>Jeron
why isn't he with the craftworld?
Where the heck is he?

How are their survivors?

>>38573200
not apeshit
that isn't a good image
but he'd deal with them with cunning brutality

>>38574169
>I wanted to show Uriel's cunning
not without merit

if someone knows your secrets you have 2 options
1- risk drawing attention to it by dealing with it yourself
2- misleading others into doing it for you - which is risky incase they find your secret

>continued

>> No.38587934

>>38587308
>Gethsemane
Yup. It's why I used Israeli rank for their Commander

What you got on the references?

>>38575710
Figure I'll actually weigh in here. I don't know exactly where we stand on everything right now, and would like us to have a clear picture of what we do before we start making more cuts. I get that a lot of these guys are missing bits off the wiki, but I'd rather take stock of what we do have, what we need them to have, and what they're already involved in. Just taking Gaudin and Kleisthenes out would force us to completely rewrite a fuckton of Terra.

>> No.38587948

so, anybody have any thoughts on the Neolithian/Core/Atalantos/maybe more worlds blanda up and prepare for a big secession after the heresy, in a way of saying "we're tired of this shit?"
obviously it doesn't work in the end, but considering a ton of the legions are obliterated they may still be a huge threat for the time being

>> No.38587960

>>38586697
IIRC, that's the very early versions of the Void Angels, before you restructured them into the Spiritual Lieges, and had an actual Terror Tactics focus. Maybe he's somehow dug up some of that from your older work, or maybe it's still implied underneath the new.

Side note, I see a lot of arguing and discussion in this thread, and I don't really have the stomach for arguments because fuck it, it's a goddamned Monday and Daylight Savings is the devil and Hitler.

If there's anything you need my opinion on though, give me a list and I'll take a look at it.

>> No.38587998

>>38587948
Very much not Arelex's modus operandi, very much the Atalantos Worlds are still recovering from the Burning Crusade for centuries, if not millennia. They *do* eventually recover, but it's not quickly.

>> No.38588007

>>38587948
There are many namefags here now that haven't been for some time, restating your proposal can only help at this point.

>> No.38588098

>>38587934
>rewrite a fuckton of Terra.
OK, let's look at it. http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Hektor_Heresy#Sol_Campaign

I think the Saturn bit is OK, but I'm not sure. At any rate, it would not be affected by the cuts. The write-up for Terra is plagiarised, so it has to be re-written.

You're right that we should take stock, but the reality is that the wiki has very little writing on the Heresy campaign that wasn't stolen from Forge World.

>> No.38588174

>>38587960
>IIRC, that's the very early versions of the Void Angels, before you restructured them into the Spiritual Lieges, and had an actual Terror Tactics focus. Maybe he's somehow dug up some of that from your older work, or maybe it's still implied underneath the new.
I inferred from snatches throughout their History and Organization and Doctrine.

>Side note, I see a lot of arguing and discussion in this thread, and I don't really have the stomach for arguments because fuck it, it's a goddamned Monday and Daylight Savings is the devil and Hitler.
Well, I must say this thread has been one of the least argumentative in some time. So I'll have to disagree with you on that.

>If there's anything you need my opinion on though, give me a list and I'll take a look at it.
Your input on this proposal please >>38575710

>> No.38588212

>>38587761
>Oberst Hans Lukr
Born to the wealthy noble house Lukr, Hans grew bored of the idle life and joined the military as soon as he was able. He needed adventure and excitement, and assumed military life would provide it. He was promoted quickly for his intelligence, cunning, and skill.

When the Imperium found Pante, the planet saw the gap in technology and the benefits of Imperial enlightenment. They quickly surrendered. Though tithes were required, the current military members were given a choice by the planetary governor: they could join the Imperial Army at their current rank, with many promotions available, or they could retire. Lukr had no intention on becoming sedentary, and the ability to conquer the stars was the adventure of a lifetime, so he joined immediately.

He is well liked as a fellow officer and soldier amongst the Imperial forces, as he is always friendly and cordial. There are 3 things he always carries on his person, a bottle of amasec, his gilded and perfumed lho sticks, and his family's archaeotech pistol. He spends his downtime playing cards, joking, and gambling with his fellow officers, but is pleasant and respectful to the enlisted, and makes time to spend with his troops. Despite his opulant behavior and lifestyle, in combat he leads from the front, and lives as his men do. Aside from his standard 3 items, he lives with no additional comforts in a battlefield.

>> No.38588213

>>38587948
>>38587998
Then it could be just the Neothilian and Core Worlds. To sidetrack, has anyone heard of what Bulwark-anon is doing?

>> No.38588272

>>38575710
oh hell.

>1.
i want them to stay
but they are terminal at this point

>2.
A shame but I don't think I'm against it. I liked Aubreys proposal for them, the byzantines were interesting as heck...

>3.
Woah now.
This...
This seems a bit much.
I haven't looked on the wiki in a bit, and following Golgy's last thoughts seems like it wasn't a direction that was going to work.
But they worked in the past as the struggling chapter with a small cadre of successors all resigned to die at the EoT.

Plus, Golgy is active. Why are we contemplating taking away an active anons legion?
He can be stubborn, but you aren't cutting me...quickly checks following posts
If he agrees I wouldn't argue, but this strikes me as a bad precedent, and bad form.
Plus the Entombed are kind of cool.

>4.
Sad to see these go.
It will mean the only siege legion we have is the Marshals.
Which would impact Terra considerably (Heralds may be very good, but they aren't going to outdo the masters of a field)

Maybe something to consider.

>5. & 6.
Did i miss something in thread where we undid the whole "merge the Bound and Gorgers" thing?
What does that mean for LCK?
Same argument for Golgy applies here.

If these *are* cut them just give the blank slate to LCK to fill up and keep Golgy.

We cut 4 legion, no active anons are fucked over or pushed out, and LCK can write without having to run things past Alex/Lumey or whoever before running it to the thread/wiki.
That seems fair.

>>38575889
>LCK for SB
hmm if he's okay with it, okay... i guess...
But keeping Golgy and doing this would leave one traitor legion slot open.

>Thirteenth
Well thats interesting, but I have my own proposal to post in a bit

Also
>The kids raze lazarus?
I don't know how i feel about that really.
My gut is against it to be quite honest, but i'll think it over

>TK's
I'm against that, personally.

>continued

>> No.38588305

>>38587889
A lot of your questions are answered in the continuation of that post.

>but he'd deal with them with cunning brutality
Or perhaps, with brutal kunning?

>> No.38588322

>>38588098
Okay, I think that's an everybody's fault issue, though. we had a lot going on in the thread, as well as the series of events.

Does anybody have those?

>> No.38588353

>>38587998
fair enough
>>38588007
okay
>right after the heresy
>the Neolithians are devastated, but still remain very cohesive due to Onyx's influence
>they're mad as hell. Their representative primarch is dead, their legion is gone, and their homeworld is destroyed.
>general nationalist/anti-imperial influence spreads, hastened by the lack of imperial governance
>alliances are made with similar/nearby sectors like the core worlds
>armies are raised and the central-north of the galaxy starts to become worryingly independent and powerful
>this includes forge worlds, mining worlds, and many other important resources
>this perhaps leads into the birth of the ecclesiarchy?

>> No.38588411

>>38588272
>no active anons are fucked over
Bear in mind that completing the tale of the Heresy and opening up the Reformation, etc. is going to fuck over Golgothos, because it means the Entombed story is over. From what he's said in opposition to "finishing the project", I think he's well aware of that, but what's the alternative?

>> No.38588511

>>38581113
During the same point in time that you yourself said the call for a cut was unnecessary. I'll have to find that on the archives.

>>38583685
welp.

-----

Alright. Does anyone have a problem with the concept of bloodthirsty, ritualistic, Aztecest marines as a warband? Lumey actually suggested this (though on IRC), but I am wondering if there is room for that now.

What else is there to work on?

>> No.38588525

>>38588272
>1.
>but they are terminal at this point
Barely on life-support. Like Lumey said, they've been running on donations for a while now.

>2. I can't even remember their namefag its been so long. (Is their an acronym for "it has"?)

>3. Yeah, even if they die out that doesn't mean Golgothos wouldn't have anything to do, there's a ton of stuff he could write.

>4. Were they a siege Legion? Like the Scions its been a while since anything was done with them.

>5. & 6. Please don't cut, at least not while LCK's not here and can't defend his stuff.
>inb4 kill them in front of him

>But keeping Golgy and doing this would leave one traitor legion slot open.
Oh? That sounds interesting.

>> No.38588562

>>38588511
The proposal hasn't passed, the namefags have barely looked it over. Vote for no cut of the BloodGorgers.

>> No.38588582

>>38588511
I certainly did call for a halt on cuts, as acknowledged in >>38581310.

Scale Bearers could really use an overhaul to avoid being one-note. There's not much more than a "skin" there.

>> No.38588595

>>38588411

What if the Entombed *expect to die*, but they're still around millennia after the Heresy, just understength?

The Wiki says they're at 10,000 post-Heresy; that's still like 10 Chapters. Add to that
>>They have long suffered from a genetic flaw which makes their geneseed difficult to recover from fallen battle brothers
which says it's difficult, but not impossible.

Why don't the Entombed, who do the cybernetic thing already, cozy up to the Adeptus Mechanicus and spend lots of time trying to figure out how to save their gene-seed?

>> No.38588619

>>38588411
Just because the Entombed's story is over doesn't mean Golgothos can't or won't contribute any longer. He could write up gallons of stuff. We don't know.

>> No.38588624

>>38588582
I wish we still had Tiran around...

I miss that guy.

>> No.38588664

>>38588595
You'll have to ask Golgothos about that. That'd be a pretty big rewrite on his and others parts though.

>> No.38588668

>>38588562
Agreed.

>>38588582
So, you would not have given that advice if you had thought I had more time? Please note I have had classes in the meantime.

>> No.38588711

>>38588664

I'm just snowballing. New anon who lurked a bit, trying to help out and get involved.

>> No.38588718

>>38582519
So it was you who let them out!

>> No.38588764

>>38588711
Snowballing is good, helping out is great, and getting involved is excellent.
For everything else there's Mastercard.

>> No.38588782

>>38588718

>> No.38588796

>>38576800
>>38576712
>Would this make Alexandri the Emperor's Praetorian?
>yes
Wait why?
Wouldn't Roman be the obvious choice?

He's the best swordsman, now potentially the ONLYmaster of siege, and is the only other serious candidate for Warmaster than H himself.

Surely he would be the praetorian, and Alex would be the acting praetorian?

>>38576800
>>What happens to Kleisty?
>Major character in the Heralds of Hektor.
so does Aubrey still take him out?

>>38577030
>my blandest Legion
stop it.
the Phracts are good. They have room for improvement.
>ALL OF US DO.
You're veering into madness with this.
They aren't bland, they just aren't screaming pyromaniacs or cannibals or whatever.
Relax, for your own health, and theirs.

>>38581599
>>38581681
you don't cease to amaze me Z-man

>>38582616
>>38583340
>>38583679

this is cool

Bit miffed its what i came up with for Annastasya Key's background, with some differences.
But thats a lot more than I've written for Anna lol

>>38585370
>either way the Redeemers are going to have to avoid conflict with the Imperial Creed until they swear themselves to the Ruinous Powers.

The Children of Armok (name change pending)
teh Iron Rangers and the Black Augurs all seem decent choices for that. All are more or less apathetic to the rule of law, so would probably allow the lack of ImpCreed, albeit in different ways with different ramifications.

Also,
>Conquered by negotiation
is right up Uriel Starikovs alley, but not something he alone does


also,
>Owing to cultish origins, they obey commands without question, throwing themselves into any battle with nary a protest.
Is literally Uriels jam for his IA flavor of the week.
But would be cool to see the Black Augurs deal with IA/humans...

>>38586959
>yes please
seconded
Teutons of something?

>>38586959
jesus do we need more knights right now?
IA are wanting far more than Knights
which aren't even cool

>> No.38588838

>>38588668
>So, you would not have given that advice if you had thought I had more time?
That's right. I thought you were being treated extremely harshly and if I couldn't block the imposition of a deadline then the next best thing was to help you pass it.

>> No.38588899

>>38588796

Well they're on the wiki now, and I listed Black Augurs Legion, but if the CoA or the Iron Rangers prove a better fit it can always be edited.

>> No.38588924

>>38588796
>Annastasya Key
I have no idea who that is.
Is she on the wiki?
Care to figure things out so we can make them two different people? I do want Quinn to be an active combatant, it's just not her #1 ability.

>> No.38588939

>>38588796
>Why Alexandri as Praetorian?
For sake of the narrative. AoR is going to sell the marine companies he has to buy hours for the Loyalist cause, lubricating his war machine with a river of IA blood and after the dust settles there's a real question about whether he'll relinquish power.

Roman's character just doesn't have the same possibilities.

>> No.38588975

FWIW, I like the Silver Cataphracts and would love to see them stay.

>> No.38589110

>>38588899
for the record, IR are not the negotiating type. That's what their Iterators are for.

>> No.38589114

>>38588975
They're a good Legion, but Alexandri is having a hard time with what he wants them to be in terms of the way they fight. Like this guy >>38581599 says they should be whatever he wants them to be.

He should also look at this I think. >>38586319

>> No.38589195

Alright, catching a nap. I'll be back later to finish up the 42nd Mobile Infantry really? nobody made THAT connection yet?

>> No.38589259

>>38589195

>> No.38589269

But Alex, I seriously think they should be a tank legion.

>>38575710
>Crusaders
I can agree here.

>Scions
Ditto.

>Entombed
I like the Entombed, so I'm against that.

>Horns, Bloodbound, and Gorgers
I'm not big on traitors, so I don't have an opinion here.
>>38588975
Who are you?
>>38589195
I know it! I know it!

>> No.38589279

>>38587741
>He's an expert in fortification
since when?

how far behind is my wiki reading jesus

>>38587934
>What you got on the references?
nothing else
I'm drawing blanks.
the panzer one is bugging me too

>>38587934
>Figure I'll actually weigh in here. I don't know exactly where we stand on everything right now, and would like us to have a clear picture of what we do before we start making more cuts. I get that a lot of these guys are missing bits off the wiki, but I'd rather take stock of what we do have, what we need them to have, and what they're already involved in. Just taking Gaudin and Kleisthenes out would force us to completely rewrite a fuckton of Terra.
>
>This is a very wise move
>

>>38588305
you picked up my reference
Uriel is not really Khork in disguise...

>>38588322
the stuff we hashed out in thread for the opening and closing battles of the heresy?

>>38588353
I..
I actually think this has something.
It's quite common for chaos post civil war, and this would show that.

>>38588411
>but what's the alternative?
good question, and he can be as stubborn as me.

But his old ideas worked more or less didn't they?

The ones where they got curbstomped in the heresy, then went a bit weird and obsessive over the EoT, but were always just too small a force to really make a difference on their own.
Becoming more of a defensive vanguard against BC's and incursions.

>>38588562
>BloodGorgers.
that... is actually a pretty good name...

>>38588619
but that doesnt justify cutting what we do have.
The Scale Bearers have no active anon...
Although don't cut them, they're tied to Merrills fluff

>>38588718
>>38588764
i detect a brit, or someone who grew up in the 90's-early00's

>>38588899
Its cool, I like what you have, although skopti sounds finnish, which always makes me chuckle.

>> No.38589323

>>38589259
Come on, you apes! You wanna live forever?

Dan Daly is a Markian.

>> No.38589395

>>38589269
Anon who contributed an IA regiment (and wants to contribute more) who decided to tripfag

>> No.38589424

>>38589395
Oo, what delectable regiment would that be?

>> No.38589435

>>38589279
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Stone_Men#Legion_Tactics_and_Strategy
>They are also adept at fortifying and defending stationary positions.

>Golgothos' old ideas worked
OK, but do you really think you're going to be able to push him back to them? Because there is no chance he'll listen to me. We'd also be telling Golgothos that his Legion is perma-insignificant.

And that sounds like fucking him over.

>> No.38589453

>>38589259
Yes. Most definitely Yes.
THE BOOK, NOT THAT ABORTION OF A FILM. MAY PAUL VERHOEVEN BE SENT TO THE SPECIAL HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY FOR RUINING A MASTERPIECE OF SCIENCE FICTION

/rant

Anyways, as I already posted, the chick's name is from Harley Quinn. Merrill will not be her Mistah J. Not now, not ever.The name "The Killing Jesters" comes from the graphic novel with the Joker's origin story, "The Killing Joke."

Lastly, the show Space: Above and Beyond was about a unit called the Wildcards. Pop Platzhaltern into google translate.

The motto on the picture is an intentionally misspelled German translation for "Read it and weep."

>> No.38589484

>>38589424
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Skoptsi_Redeemers

>> No.38589559

>>38589453
Hey, hey, HEY! Hey! Hey!

I liked the movie. Not the sequels though.
>>38589484
Nice.

>> No.38589595

>>38588924
>Annastasya Key
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Children_of_Armok#Non-Astartes_Notables
She's someone i wrote, and had writefag plans for, but need to get legion and primarch stuff done before i can get to that, and distractions like work have kept me from expanding her more.

I'm up for figuring things out sure. The main similarity is they're both young female characters who grew up in hives, lead gangs and got into the GC.

>>38588939
>and after the dust settles there's a real question about whether he'll relinquish power.
that actually sold me.
But it seems weird Roman isn't the praetorian, and his absence requires a new choice, naturally being Alex.

>Roman's character just doesn't have the same possibilities.
Agreed, but he is unloved by empy to be passed over for the 2 roles he was cut out for...

>>38589110
I don't know, the IR negotiation might involve more knives at throats, but thats just how they haggle...

>>38589435
>OK, but do you really think you're going to be able to push him back to them?
I hope so.
Maybe.
I'll have to give it a go.

>We'd also be telling Golgothos that his Legion is perma-insignificant.
>And that sounds like fucking him over.

Well, some legions are.
I mean the VA sit out nearly the entire heresy, and only come into the story at the scouring.
And a few others don't play major roles in the fighting or anything.
The 13th aren't a major part of it really, although I have some stuff to work on/consider still.

And we still have the post heresy stuff to work with where they can become more important.
Although it does appeal to the theme of death they have to fade out of significance...
I don't know.
I'll talk with him when I next see him.

>> No.38589796

>>38589595
>The Void Angels are perma-insignificant
>So are the Thirteenth.

Dude. Are you feeling OK?

>> No.38589891

>>38589595
>Annastasya/Aryotta
Alright, I'll mull some stuff over and change her name at least. I think with some characterisation, we can differentiate the two enough to not need any changes. I did want it to be shown that she STARTS by forming a gang, and by the time the IR arrive it's more of a cartel.

That being said, there are other changes that can be made to the setting and whatnot that would give them a bit more separation. My only big thing is that I LIKE the name Gethsemane, and it's kinda stuck as a Hive world (look it up, it's OU canon)

>IR negotiation
That's their bartering system. Give us what we want, and we let you live...

That being said, they DO negotiate with some people, but it's more of a "do you like who's in charge? No? Think you could do a better job? Here's some guns and training, follow our instructions and we'll take them all out."

>> No.38589911

And, with that, I'm out fellas. seriously this time. later.

>> No.38589952

>>38589279
>but that doesnt justify cutting what we do have.
The Scale Bearers have no active anon...
Although don't cut them, they're tied to Merrills fluff

I was actually supporting not cutting the Entombed out.

>> No.38589967

fuck i'm losing steam and getting distracted
BACK TO SCHEDULE

>PALLAS
So as mentioned above, Pallas's ranking of people would probably provoke some reactions among some of the primarchs, so she wouldn't be universally loved, but her skills mean she holds influence.
Influence that when paired with Hektors ear, can translate into real power, especially with Hektors access to the War Council.

So she's a political operator not unlike Claire Underwood, but with her own style and personality as Lumey has laid out etc they are a decent fit anyway

>Her and Uriel
I think like Merrill suggested, they'd get on, but more as friendly rivals.
Sometimes they'd compete against eachothers agendas in the war council or wherever, and other times they'd work together.
I think they might have a mutual respect, and enjoy each others company, but not trust the other for a second.
Maybe thats too much, I don't know if its a good idea or not.
But the idea struck me.
If its a go I'd write a quote for Pallas from Uriel or something.

>>38589796
>Dude. Are you feeling OK?
Ha! I don't know anymore to be honest.

But I meant for the duration of the Heresy, the VA aren't involved - they get exiled and sit it out til the aftermath of Terra more or less.
The Thirteenth start stuff then kind of slink about like cowards, although their loyalists get a bit scrapped up in ol' Perfidiae or whatever it might get called now.

The Entombed would be no different, they would be insignificant more or less post heresy, but their sacrifices would lend them some clout, and eventually they would be healed.

-Actually.
If they have bad geneseed, what if before the heresy Pallas helps them more or less fix it so they build up their numbers and produce a surplus, stockpiling it or whatever, then post Heresy, it mutates badly and becomes what it is currently - bad
So they have a small stockpile to rebuild, then have the geneseed issues later down the line?

Something for Golgy to think on right?

>> No.38590046

>>38589967
>Claire Underwood
Or Cleopatra, the real one, not the historically revised one.

House of Cards ain't everything man. Unless you're just using it as a modern example. And Spawn is garbage.

>> No.38590076

>>38575710
>crusaders
can be cut, can be reworked, doesn't really matter to me
>scions
what's wrong with them?
>entombed
nope.jpg
>horns
FUCK YOU THEY'RE MY RIVALFUS
>bloodbound/gorgers
just combine them or remove them and move on

>> No.38590093

>>38568188
Wait, I'm gonna be the only Siege master left?

Shiiit. I remember the first thread was all Siege masters.

>reading proposals now

>> No.38590186

>>38575710
>1
I'm not TOO unokay with this.
>2
Isn't Kleisthenes our Sanguinius?
>3
Not okay with this for reasons others have said in the thread
>4, 5. 6
Unsure how I feel about these.

>> No.38590215

>>38589967
Look, you said that the alternative to cutting the Entombed down to a doomed Chapter * was to go back to Golgothos' earlier ideas and have the Entombed too small to do anything on their own.

That's permanent insignificance. He didn't like that and wanted the Legion to get a glorious send-off. You're saying that you can railroad the guy into going back on months of development - maybe - and that this is might be the alternative. No promises.

You can see why I don't find that satisfactory.

*: I would make them the Stone Men's 3rd Chapter and keep the bio-weapon doom, with only their Terminators and Dreadnoughts limping back to warn the Loyalists before throwing themselves into the jaws of Hektor's armies to avoid spreading contagion.

>>38590076
>What's wrong with the Scions?
They don't have significant content. To the extent that they do, they're sharing tropes with the Heralds.

>>38590093
>I'm gonna be the only Siege master left?
No, Uriel's confused. Onyx would still be a master of defensive siegework and likely at least one of the Traitors would get sieges added to their skill set. (Inferox, Tollund, perhaps Hektor are the most likely candidates.)

>> No.38590284

>>38590076
>crusaders
They should be broken down for parts for other Legions.

>scions
>what's wrong with them?
Much like the crusaders they've been on life support for a while.

>entombed
>nope.jpg
I agree

>horns
I heard rumors that they were going to be rebuilt but nothing seemed to come of that, not yet at least.

>bloodbound/gorgers
LCK is on it and they're not getting cut.

>>38590093
>Wait, I'm gonna be the only Siege master left?

Yours was the only Siege Legion for some time, you're just realizing this now?

>reading proposals now
Your soul is still required.

>> No.38590303

I say we keep the Entombed, and the Horns of Ruin, so now we have 20 Legions.

We can think of something to talk to Golgothos about, as now the issue is in the minds of the community.

The Horns I'm fighting for because when Vetro didn't have her migraines, but life stuff, she told me IRC all her plans for the Horns. And they are worth giving her more time to get herself together to write again. I'll even write them for her if she'll have me. They're damn good, damn fine.

>> No.38590339

>>38590284
I didn't realize.

And I'm keeping my soul.

>>38590215
Fair enough.

>>38590303
This would be fine.

>> No.38590376

>>38590303
>I say we keep the Entombed, and the Horns of Ruin, so now we have 20 Legions.
I'm for this, but LCK is still doing the BloodGorgers and they shouldn't be cut either.

>> No.38590378

>>38590303
Furthermore, the new Kranios is PERFECT for hating Onyx. He's a rebel at heart, a person who loves question and defying authority, and a free spirit who seeks to solve problems with liberal application of both SCIENCE and EXPLOSIONS.

Think how easily a person like him would DESPISE a person like Onyx.

>> No.38590518

>>38590376
Hmm.

Lumey, can you bring up a list of the 18 Legions with their numerations in a list please?

>> No.38590538

>>38590378
I don't know anything about the new Horns, but I was gonna have an Order of Marshals and Chapter? of Horns be part of the pacification of Reichmar IV, each one starting on opposite poles. The old Horns were ATTACK DESTROY ENSLAVE iirc while the Marshals would Marshal. Once they got close the two commanders would nearly come to blows over each others tactics, ie "You limp-wristed Marshals!" vs "You rampaging crazy Horns!". It'd be the Reichmar forces fleeing to the Marshal side where possible, and the only thing stopping it going full retard was the arrival of Hektor?/Higher Commander.

>> No.38590565

>>38590518
No. I don't understand the question.

>> No.38590572

>>38590378
does he still want to blow everything up?

>> No.38590611

>>38590572
>tfw your rival is either getting cut or rewritten

>> No.38590618

>>38589952
I know.
I am too.
I just didn't want someone to get the bright idea from what i said and cut the SB instead.

>>38590046
>House of Cards ain't everything
Lies
but seriously, i rewatched it all the other week so its fresh in my mind.
And its a popular pop culture reference people can infer what i mean from.
Cleopatra works too, but thats more complicated as there are more interpretations for people to follow
History doesnt have just one interpretation. Made my short career, and was the bane of my life simultaneously

>Spawn
He's wasted potential.
The movie was shit.
Good voice actor for the tv series though.

>>38590215
>You can see why I don't find that satisfactory.
I agree
but cutting him, while he's absent no less, is going to cause problems too.

I can try to talk to him, as can others.

And I'm not suggesting they be insignificant.
They were small but not completely insignificant way back when.

Its a compromise. The ultimate goal is to cut the bloat and help us move on.
Its going to involve lots of rewriting anyway.
Golgo wouldn't be getting singled out, he'd be in the same boat as most of us.

Regardless, while he is stubborn, he's agreed to rewrites before.
There will be *some* middle ground
I hope

==

I've gotta sleep now, running on fumes right now. So i'll have more tomorrow

>> No.38590628

Alrighty, if the proposal >>38575710 passes with the amendments that the Entombed, HoR, and BloodGorgers are not be cut we would be left with:

Heralds of Hektor (Traitor)
War Scribes (Loyalist)
Sons of Fire (Traitor)
Void Angels (Loyalist)
The Entombed (Loyalist)
Lions Rampant (Traitor)
Life Bringers (Traitor)
Children of [Redacted] (¿Traitor?)
Black Augurs (Traitor)
Eternal Zealots (Traitor)
BloodGorgers (Traitor)
Sand Keepers (Loyalist)
Eyes of the Emperor (Loyalist)
Iron Rangers (Traitor)
Thunder Kings (Loyalist)
Silver Cataphracts (Loyalist)
Mastodontii (Traitor)
Scale Bearers (Loyalist)
Steel Marshalls (Loyalist)
Stone Men (Loyalist)
Horns of Ruin (Traitor)

21 Legions, 10 Loyalists, 11 Traitors

>> No.38590663

>>38590628
I have zero enthusiasm for contributing to that.

>> No.38590665

>>38590572
>>38590611
I just said he loves to tear shit down with tech and explosives.

>> No.38590710

>>38590611
Who is Lumey's rival?

>>38590572
>He's a rebel at heart, a person who loves question and defying authority, and a free spirit who seeks to solve problems with liberal application of both SCIENCE and EXPLOSIONS.

I think he still likes blowing stuff up.

>> No.38590712

Based on the combat doctrines I have seen, it would be really simple to describe the blood/gorger (Crimson Teeth's) combat doctrine

Synchronized assault: Think guys riding Jet bikes and jumping out of Caestuses while assault marines burst out of the trees, or drive forward with modified rhinos? (No open top, but you can assault out of it)

>> No.38590732

>>38590628
Well, if people are strongly for keeping the Entombed that's cool, but we're either going to have to add another loyal legion (terrible idea) or cut another traitor. I vote for the latter, and I vote for the Bloorgers.

>> No.38590779

>>38590663
Technically, you contributed half of that.

>> No.38590784

>>38590732

Welp >>38590712

>> No.38590806

>>38590663

>> No.38590845

>>38590732
>>38590784
Actually, I'll amend that and say that I just vote for cutting another traitor legion and have no strong opinions on which.

>> No.38590929

>>38590845
The cut Traitor Legion can always be turned into a post-heresy CSM Warband...

>> No.38590935

Here's my counter-proposal to still cut to eighteen:

Heralds of Hektor (Traitor)
War Scribes (Loyalist)
Sons of Fire (Traitor)
Void Angels (Loyalist)
The Entombed (Loyalist)
Lions Rampant (Traitor)
Life Bringers (Traitor)
Children of [Redacted] (¿Traitor?)
Black Augurs (Traitor)
Eternal Zealots (Traitor)
BloodGorgers (Traitor)
Sand Keepers (Loyalist)
Eyes of the Emperor (Loyalist)
Iron Rangers (Traitor)
Thunder Kings (Loyalist)
Silver Cataphracts (Loyalist)
Steel Marshalls (Loyalist)
Stone Men (Loyalist)

In other words, relative to my original, we get rid of the Mastodontii in order to keep LCK's Legion and lose the Scale Bearers for sake of the Entombed. I think this is weaker than my original because it holds any progress on the Heresy hostage to:

1. LCK finishing an entirely new Legion.
2. Working through necessary changes to the Entombed so that they can be an enduring and significant part of the setting rather than a briefly twinkling snowflake. (We're not under any illusion that the Terminator and Dreadnought Legion who found the Imperial Cult are anything else, right?)

>>38590779
No, I contributed nothing to fucking over the proposal.

>>38590806
Does that mean you're hitting the keyboard, friend anon? What's on the drawing board?

>> No.38590988

>>38590628
Legion I: Heralds of Hektor (Traitor)
Legion II: War Scribes (Loyalist)
Legion III: Sons of Fire (Traitor)
Legion IV: Steel Marshalls (Loyalist)
Legion V: Void Angels (Loyalist)
Legion VI: The Entombed (Loyalist)
Legion VII: Eyes of the Emperor (Loyalist)
Legion VIII: Children of [Redacted] (¿Traitor?)
Legion IX: Lions Rampant (Traitor)
Legion X: Eternal Zealots (Traitor)
Legion XI: Thunder Kings (Loyalist/Traitor)
Legion XII: Life Bringers (Traitor)
Legion XIII: Iron Rangers (Traitor)
Legion XIV: Black Augurs (Traitor)
Legion XV: Silver Cataphracts (Loyalist)
Legion XVI: Mastodontii (Traitor)
Legion XVII: Scale Bearers (Loyalist)
Legion XVIII: Sand Keepers (Loyalist)
Legion XIX: Stone Men (Loyalist)
Legion XX: Horns of Ruin (Traitor)

10 Loyalists, 10 Traitors.

>> No.38590997

>>38590518

This post has the post-proposal, which hasn't been decided yet, Legions in order >>38590628

>> No.38591001

>>38590732
>>38590784
>>38590845
>>38590929
>>38590935
I am working on the legion page right now, at the moment it is called the Blood Maw, but the name will be changed later.

I think we decided Crimson Teeth, Alex? Also, that they would come to be known as the 'Emperor's Teeth' by their enemies?

>> No.38591037

>>38590929
Yeah. This is a standard assumption for removed Legions. The Infernals, Mechanist Warriors, The Saracens, The Waste Walkers, and the Nova Defenders all originated as ideas for Legions.

>> No.38591067

>>38590997
That proposal is garbage.

>> No.38591114

>>38590935
>>38590988
We could cut the Horns rather than the Mastodontii. I say cut the Entombed and let Golgothos write something else. The Entombed are in his mind for other settings and places and he never truly had them set in one place, at least that's what he told me. He just turned his idea for a Chapter into one for a Legion, he already used them in other forms before this.

>> No.38591164

>>38591001
I think waiting for your work is going to be bearable and there is other stuff to clean up while you're doing it. The Entombed are a much bigger problem.

>>38591114
>We could cut the Horns rather than the Mastodontii.
It is only possible to cut the Horns once.

>> No.38591168

>>38590988
is that the order they were found, or the numeration?

Because the numerations are wrong according to wiki entries...

>> No.38591179

Suggestion: We cut all the legions, because the Yaotls take Terra in M23 and the whole 40k thing never happens.

>> No.38591239

>>38591037
>>38591067
I know it's been said before, but ultimately the main reason the OU had 18 Legions were sales. We don't have to worry about that. In all reality, there is no need for us to have any holes whatsoever. Saying "so people can write up their own Legions" is a moot point. If we leave the project to newcomers, or new people come on, and they have excellent ideas or want to make their own "lost" legions, we can allow that. Or future authors can allow it.

>> No.38591245

>>38591179
Not my least-favourite proposal in this thread.

>> No.38591283

>>38591164
Look at: >>38590988

You must allow compromise to happen. Compromise says we keep the Entombed and LCK's Crimson Teeth.

I understand you don't want compromise itself to deride us from the point, but if you want anything to happen we must go this route.

>> No.38591293

>>38591179
Counter-proposal: zero legions, and this is an all-IA heresy.

>> No.38591348

>>38590935
I'm actually for cutting the Scale Bearers, but the Mastodontii? Who will be the Tank Legion then? And they're cool too. (pun not intended, but I'll take it)

But they haven't been touched in a while so much as I like them, I actually agree with them getting the axe.

>>38591114
Weren't you just defending the HoRs? Cutting the Entombed? If Golgy is cool with it so he could still have a Legion post-heresy I'll support it.

>> No.38591368

>>38591239
I'm not making a fetish of 18. I would actually cut further if it was feasible (e.g. remove Hektor and have Aubrey lead the Heresy.

>>38591283
>You must allow compromise to happen. Compromise says we keep the Entombed and LCK's Crimson Teeth.
Look at >>38590935, specifically these lines
>The Entombed (Loyalist)
>BloodGorgers (Traitor)

If this going to be a replay of the "break up the Void Angels" thread, just tell me now and I'll leave.

>>38591293
Combo-breaker proposal: all-Sororitas Heresy.

>> No.38591410

>>38591348
>Mastodontii? Who will be the Tank Legion then?
Lions Rampant and Silver Cataphracts. In the former case this is hardly a change.

>> No.38591414

>>38591368
Fuck it, in M23, Andromeda eats the Milky Way, everybody dies.

>> No.38591453

>>38591368
>Combo-breaker proposal: all-Sororitas Heresy.

In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future there is only...

HAWT GIRL ON GIRL ACTION

>> No.38591458

>>38591348
Just bring Fury into the 30th Millennium and we'll have a five-man legion.
>>38591368
Mechanicus Heresy: we get as many legions as we want, but they have to fight either the Imperium or the Mechanicum, who have their own Mechanicus Marines.

>> No.38591479

>>38591168
The numerations are correct for if that proposal passes. We're discussing changes, in part to the wiki entries themselves.

>> No.38591508

>>38591368
>I would actually cut further
>>38591348
>Cutting the Entombed
> cutting the Scale Bearers
>cutting
>CUTTING

Legion I: Heralds of Hektor (Traitor)
Legion II: War Scribes (Loyalist)
Legion III: Sons of Fire (Traitor)
Legion IV: Steel Marshalls (Loyalist)
Legion V: Void Angels (Loyalist)
Legion VI:
Legion VII: Eyes of the Emperor (Loyalist)
Legion VIII: Children of [Redacted] (¿Traitor?)
Legion IX: Lions Rampant (Traitor)
Legion X: Eternal Zealots (Traitor)
Legion XI: Thunder Kings (Loyalist/Traitor)
Legion XII: Life Bringers (Traitor)
Legion XIII: Iron Rangers (Traitor)
Legion XIV: Black Augurs (Traitor)
Legion XV: Silver Cataphracts (Loyalist)
Legion XVI:
Legion XVII:
Legion XVIII: Sand Keepers (Loyalist)
Legion XIX: Stone Men (Loyalist)
Legion XX:

8 Loyalists, 8 Traitors.

>> No.38591541

>>38591508
That's gross. Why cut at all if it is just making more work?

>> No.38591568

>>38591368
I would actually cut further if it was feasible (e.g. remove Hektor and have Aubrey lead the Heresy.)

The only way that could possibly work was if you changed his name to Haubrey.

Or you could go balls-to-the-walls and change the whole thing to the Aubrey Apostasy.

>> No.38591592

>>38591508
At that point we'd might as well start over. See: >>38591458

>> No.38591603

>>38591508
keep the horns and one more loyalist legion, and we've got a deal

>> No.38591626

>>38591479
cutting legions makes sense
but arbitrarily throwing off numerations is stupid

at least preserve the legions who had numbers in the 1-20 range with their numeration...

>> No.38591645

>>38591458
Battletech Heresy: Rather than go into the Twilight of the Clans and the Blakist Jihad, we divert at the end of the Tukayyid Truce. Clan Smoke Jaguar launches a to-the-minute assault on Terra and seizes the planet for a few days before Victor Steiner-Davion's SLDF relief force throws them back with heavy casualties. The other invading clans begin pushing forward, but with some difficulties due to the increased strength of the Inner Sphere militaries. Meanwhile, on the Clan Homeworlds, Clan Smoke Jaguar is proclaimed (toothless) ilClan and dispatches the remaining Home Crusaders to the Inner Sphere...

>> No.38591666

>>38591508
>>38591592
>>38591603
Just to lobby an extremist stance, a ten Legion Heresy.

Legion I: War Scribes (Loyalist)
Legion II: Sons of Fire (Traitor)
Legion III: Steel Marshals (Loyalist)
Legion IV: Eternal Zealots (Traitor)
Legion V: Void Angels (Loyalist)
Legion VI: Life Bringers (Traitor)
Legion VII: Sand Keepers (Loyalist)
Legion VIII: Children of [Redacted] (¿Traitor?)
Legion IX: Lions Rampant (Traitor)
Legion X: Stone Men (Loyalist)

>> No.38591667

>>38591645
Wasn't expecting that.

>> No.38591670

>>38591508
Would also remove the Heralds of Hektor and the Eyes of the Emperor.

>> No.38591673

>>38591645
my black knight!

>> No.38591692

>>38591645
You said a lot of words I don't understand.

>> No.38591697

>>38591508
>>Cutting the Entombed
Only if Golgy wanted it so he could have a Legion that survives into Post-Heresy.

> cutting the Scale Bearers
Unfortunately, Tiran's no longer with us. Aside from either LCK or Fundie, I can't remember, who wrote up a Successor for them, they haven't been touched. Not even cuddled.

Same goes for the Mastodontii really.

Now if anybody wants to take those Legions as their own, then I'll 1v1 Rust anyone who'll try to cut them. But they've been left to die, so we should at least eat their corpses.

>> No.38591718

>>38591666
The only proposal with legitimacy:
a 1 legion heresy

>Legion XIII Children of [Redacted] (¿Traitor?)

There is ONLY Uriel!

>> No.38591735

>>38591568
>>38591592
>Start over
>More work
Not really, that's just all the cuts applied at once. Think of it like those awful employee evals where you basically apply for the job you already have.
The legions cut taken together have as much as any of the other legion pages on their own, so the amount of work would be minimal.

>>38591697
This is the real point. You guys want to keep them, but what gets done? Nothing, not a fucking thing

>> No.38591737

>>38591697
I want to write for the Mastodontii after SC and SoF. I kept pinging ideas off their anon for ages who was in charge of them and he pretty much used all of it too.

>> No.38591746

>>38591666
Madness? This is Sparta!

>> No.38591754

>>38591666
Legion I: Sons of Astarte.

>> No.38591813

>>38591697
What would working on defunct Legions entail?

Presumably you'd have to write them such that they're in the right place at the right time during major events in the Heresy, correct?

>> No.38591819

>>38591735
>This is the real point. You guys want to keep them, but what gets done? Nothing, not a fucking thing

So...Are you now in favor of cutting them?

>>38591737
Aha! Inferoxandri Otztal.

>> No.38591903

>>38591754
But who is Astarte?
inb4 then who was phone?

>> No.38591933

>>38591735
Don't think of it as more work. Think of it as... A chance for improvement.

>> No.38591962

Merrill finds an abandoned ship and kills everyone in their sleep.

total legions: 1

>> No.38591964

>>38591903
Mesopotamian goddess of war.

>> No.38591985

So with all the thoughts on the proposal I think I'll detail out my thoughts on all the deliberations and let people consider it. Blood is pumping, my heart is pounding, and my will to write in this has never been more invigorated. My work on the SoF is nearly done, I have a new idea how to tear into the SC with a new vigor. The Burning Crusade will be written down with a vigor as I will also work my hardest on the War in Sol myself since the SC are going to be major players. I want to pick up the Mastodontii, I'll write the Horns myself if I have to, and I'd love it if LCK could save what he worked on for a warband with Camaxtli being the father to a Space Marine who would become the leader of a warband in the Mastodontii. That warband would be full Aztec themes out the wazoo. This all is in tune with my proposal here: >>38590988

I also want to write about Pallas Eugenesis various lovely experiments who serve her in the Heresy, about the Transhuman Cohort which is her personal body guards, the IA which fight on the War in Sol, the Chapters and Warbands that play a role elsewhere.

So, I'll do it. I will write the majority of what we need and be the glue to pull it all together. Welcome to Alexandri Heresy people.


>>38591819
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1cAG2G1hg81

>> No.38591988

>>38591819
I'm in favor of progress. I want to move forward with the heresy and I think that making cuts might help. The primary reason for the cuts is because these legions' owners died and there was barely any work put in compared to the ones that never get put on the block.

>>38591813
You'd need to have ideas and then write them out and be liked by others, basically. Bring us something substantial if you have an idea, if it's good then its put in.

>> No.38592054

Dafuq?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxD_CAatY-8&t=89

>> No.38592077

>>38591964
I actually did not know that. You really do learn something new everyday!

>>38591985
>>38591985
>mfw

>>38591988
>I'm in favor of progress. I want to move forward with the heresy and I think that making cuts might help. The primary reason for the cuts is because these legions' owners died and there was barely any work put in compared to the ones that never get put on the block.
Exactly.

>>38591813
Write and write and write, and then post it here.

>> No.38592153

Motherfuckers.

We need more legions.

I want to make a legion with a wyvern-styled gryphon.

Also

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Q307Sbu4I9

>> No.38592176

>>38591813
It's a tonne of work. You not only have to work over any existing tie-ins, you'd have to become familiar with all of the other Legions so that development doesn't end up cloning someone else's efforts.

>>38591985
Curb your enthusiasm. What are you going to do with the Entombed? Rely on Uriel to sort things out with Golgothos-anon? Re-write them yourself? Get someone else to re-write them?

>> No.38592201

>>38592054
Why did I watch that? Why did I watch all of it? Why am I watching it again? I do not know, no one may ever know. But it has happened, and the world will no longer be the same.

>> No.38592240

>>38592153
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1lMEzOAOSwF

>>38592201
Prolly the same reason I did.

>> No.38592283

Additional suggestion: Instead of cutting we bring back every legion proposed, including alternate names and colour schemes of existing legions. That way you can fanfic for as long as your little hearts can take!

>> No.38592309

>>38592283
slashfic incoming

>> No.38592321

>>38592283
Nah. We should also include all of the OU Legions and Chapters (made into Legions) and all of /tg/'s other homebrew Legions and Chapters (again, made into Legions).

That would cause MAXIMUM FUN.

>> No.38592335

>>38592240
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Fu9y8pQIb3

>>38592283
Or.
Perhaps not.

>>38592321
Are we missing a fear legion btw?

>> No.38592338

>>38591813
>>38592176
>It's a tonne of work.
Whale, not really. Dew to the small amount of content the Scale Bearers page currently has, you actually have a lot of leeway.

> You not only have to work over any existing tie-ins, you'd have to become familiar with all of the other Legions so that development doesn't end up cloning someone else's efforts.

When your fleshing out the Scale Bearers themselves, even just skimming over the other Legion's pages is good enough. However, when you wanna try your hand at the big campaigns and stuff, well obviously you'd have to work with the others.

>> No.38592387

Alright, on a serious note....
I have no idea what the hell is going on anymore.
Seriously, this has escalated straight into clusterfuck. It's not a monkeyfuck yet, so that's good. But, still.
So let's take a minute to consolidate:
What are everybody's issues with the proposition?

>> No.38592394

>>38592335
>Are we missing a fear legion btw?
If you mean terror tactics like the OU Night Lords, that used to be the Void Angel's wheelhouse. Now, Inferoxandri is tentatively looking at that possiblility from afar with a gleam in his eyes.

>> No.38592441

>>38592176
>Curb your enthusiasm
I am literally watching that show right now! And no, my enthusiasm shan't be curbed!

>> No.38592447

Ok fuckers.

role call.

We need an exact list of what each legion does.

If we can find a gap, we will plug it.

I have a fucking cornucopia of ideas to do it with.

For reference.
Eternal Zealots: Close Combat, Morale Breaking, Medicae.

>> No.38592449

>>38592387
Besides cutting the Entombed, none. Then again, we COULD cut the Entombed.

Best to wait for GG though.

>> No.38592469

>>38592335
http://vocaroo.com/i/s16p2GF4CuJw

>> No.38592491

>>38592387
>What are everybody's issues with the proposition?
Whale, there are different propositions floating around. Lumey has one, Inferoxandri has one, and even Dark Eldar has one, though I'm not sure about that.

>> No.38592495

>>38592447
If the outcome of this thread is more Legions, I will quit and try to take Alex and DEGuy with me.

>> No.38592549

>>38592495
Don't be that way.

Although I would follow.

>> No.38592559

>>38592495
Well fiiiine, I'll make my own Hektor Heresy, with blackjack and snake hookers.

If anything we can give some less loved legions more relevance.

A lot more relevance.

>> No.38592576

>>38592447

>>38586319
tl:dr of all the current Legions', no proposal, Combat Doctrine.

With corrections to the Void Angels and Black Augurs:

Void Angels-Maneuver Warfare, similar, but not limited to the blitzkrieg.

Black Augurs- Ambush Psykers.

>> No.38592581

>>38592495
I'd follow you to hell and back, you dashing stud

>> No.38592607

>>38592581
You treasonous whore!

>> No.38592610

>>38592576
Also the War Scribes' fuckheug navy.

>> No.38592627

>>38592549
I would love to be more chill about it, but responding to "let's simplify the project so we can get through the Hektor Heresy" with "moar Legions?" just goes beyond what I can accept. I don't mind the proposal being shot down, but I have no enthusiasm for heading in the other direction.

>> No.38592630

In all honesty, I don't mind Alex's suggestion. It keeps the Entombed, cuts the inactive ones, etc.

I would like to give LCK a chance to write up his legion before we give him the axe, though it might unbalance things.

>> No.38592692

Come home from class to do my customary ctrl+F of "Golgothos" and "Entombed" and this is my face.

This seems to be founded on a misapprehension about both the Entombed, and about me as a writer.

>3. The Entombed. They are a narrative dead end. There's nothing for them to do after the Heresy, save for lose their concept. I'm not sure how conscious Golgothos-anon is of this problem, but his hostility to the project moving on from the Heresy appears to reflect the problem - once we were done with the Siege of Terra and moving on, what would be left for him to do? I don't see any reason why the ideas couldn't be recycled in the form of a Successor or Doomed Chapter of another Legion.

This derives from Lumey and others seeing a primary problem: The Entombed are irrelevant after the Heresy. That's a misapprehension. In the current model I'm working on, which I think is good in general, is that the Entombed -DO NOT EXIST- after the Heresy. In previous models, they were irrelevant after the heresy -BY DESIGN-

Anyway I've mostly just skimmed the thread but I'm here now to discuss stuff.

>> No.38592745

>>38592630
If you're OK with Alex's proposal at >>38590988, why not also remove the Inactive Scale Bearers and Mastodontii?

>> No.38592752

>>38592627
I don't think Aubrey wants to make more Legions so much as he wants to expand the remaining ones. However, since we haven't even divvied up the remains of whichever Legions we can all agree should get cut we shouldn't get "not chill".

>> No.38592755

>>38592692
Also
>but his hostility to the project moving on from the Heresy appears to reflect the problem
I've never held or voiced this opinion, and if you think I have you misread me. Quite the contrary, I've been ITCHING for this project to move on from the heresy.

>> No.38592783

Man, we need those voting pie charts.

>> No.38592831

>>38592783
I could make a strawpoll. Except everyone has their own opinions. So it's not really voting is it?

>> No.38592840

>>38592745
Mostly because the only really interesting stuff the IR do is intrinsically tied TO the SB, and I like them.

Mastodontii are an interesting concept who should be worked on more.

>> No.38592841

>>38592783
They don't help.

>>38592692
I honestly hate cutting things, but you're a keeper, Golgothos.

>> No.38592870

>>38592755
They all look so similar, but I'm sure if you held them and studied them you would find that they are actually different. Now as to the speculation that they may have come from different people, whale, I don't think that nonsense even deserves the dignity of a response.

>> No.38592891

>>38592630
>>38592745
>>38592755
Let's try a formal vote for once. Vote for your option by linking to this post. I'll abstain and count.

Option A: Lumey's Original Plan.
>>38575710

Option B: Alex's Plan:
>>38590988

Option C: Lumey's Second Plan:
>>38590935

>> No.38592915

>>38592841
>>38592831
>>38592692
You know it was prophesied that one day, the lost namefags would return to save us from ourselves.

>> No.38592949

>>38592891
I'm abstaining. I don't feel I'm properly informed in the matter, and still say we should consolidate what information we do have, and what would need to be redone with the proposed changes before moving forward

>> No.38592962

>>38592891
None of the above? I can't tell at a glance who was cut from Alex's plan

>> No.38592977

>>38592755
You've certainly expressed hostility towards "completion" and "progress", and stated that spitballing on the thread is just as good as content on the wiki. As I've misinterpreted that, I apologise, but I think it's an error in good faith.

>>38592840
Yeah, but you haven't developed them. I got flayed for the Eyes of the Emperor only being a "prop" of the Void Angels and I actually added to their page to the extent that they were independent of the Fifth. So - are you going to work on the Scale Bearers, or is that someone else's job? Whose?

>> No.38592981

>>38592915
Every now and then I find a Webway Cafe that has WarpNet. Then Dark Eldar show up and the whole place goes to shit.

>> No.38592982

Right everyone, I'm going to pitch my ideas for the War in Sol and the Battle of Terra, and how this Heresy comes together. It might take a while.

>>38592745
I'm writing the Mastodontii.

It will be done. I've had ideas for ages, I was just waiting to see if absolutely no one wanted to defile that corpse.

>>38592692
>>38592755
Golgy, I have an idea for you. Hear me out now, I'll be posting it in the shit I've been working on for a while now. It gets EVERYTHING you wanted and more, but it'd most likely KILL Ostium. Now, I know that's a bullet to bite, but I want to have you at the Battle of Terra doing some of the most badass actions of the campaign being in the forefront of everything.

And, this will leave a way for the Entombed Chapter to trickle back into the setting. HEAR ME OUT NOW, I'imma start posting.

>>38592891
B

>>38592962
Crusaders, Bloodbound, Gorgers, Scions of Europa.

It's Lumey's plan A with Entombed and Horns. I'm willing to swap Horns for BloodGorgers.

>> No.38593008

>>38592977
Didn't we just put LCK forward? I'd be willing to give it a looksee and try and come up with some stuff.

>> No.38593036

>>38592962
>I can't tell at a glance who was cut from Alex's plan
The Crusaders, Scions of Europa, Bloodbound, and Gorgers.

>> No.38593048

>>38593008
I suggested that but he wasn't interested.

>> No.38593059

>>38592962
Gorgers, Bloodbound, Crusaders, and Scions.

In any case. B. But maybe with Gorgers/Bloudbound instead of Horns as much as I like the Horns.

>>38592915
Hey man, I've never been lost. I'm always watching.

>> No.38593086

>>38593048
Fine, hold on, I'll check it out for a moment. I can put my IA Regiments on hold if flushing the SB out takes priority.

>> No.38593101

>>38592982
>I was just waiting to see if absolutely no one wanted to defile that corpse.
Bruhristarchus, Walgrun and his boys have been defiling the Mastodontii this whole time.

>> No.38593132

>>38592387
I don't like the idea of cutting any legions that aren't super unimportant

>> No.38593144

>>38593059
>Hey man, I've never been lost. I'm always watching.
By the Emperor!

>> No.38593151

>>38592891
I can accept B(LCK variation).

>> No.38593153

I don't even understand why the Entombed are on the chopping block.

>> No.38593168

>>38593101
You mean adding to them?

>>38593153
Then read what Lumey's said.

>> No.38593174

>>38592977
>You've certainly expressed hostility towards "completion" and "progress", and stated that spitballing on the thread is just as good as content on the wiki. As I've misinterpreted that, I apologise, but I think it's an error in good faith.
I've expressed opposition to the notion that we should finish and package up (and some anons even seem to treat it as something they'll publish) as opposed to just a fun creative writing community

>>38592982
> It gets EVERYTHING you wanted and more, but it'd most likely KILL Ostium. Now, I know that's a bullet to bite, but I want to have you at the Battle of Terra doing some of the most badass actions of the campaign being in the forefront of everything.
I'd probably be OK with that, although I'm always hesitant to lose cool stuff people have written. I'll totally hear you out.

>And, this will leave a way for the Entombed Chapter to trickle back into the setting. HEAR ME OUT NOW, I'imma start posting.
I'm not so sure about that. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the Entombed's role as The Dead Legion is their primary legacy.

>Crusaders, Bloodbound, Gorgers, Scions of Europa.
I don't understand everybody's problem with the Gorgers. I still don't know anything about the Scions of Europa, and the Crusaders are cool, especially with their new red'n'black nazi paint scheme.

>>38592891
I stand by my vote of "none of the above." In general I'm opposed to cutting legions unless there's a seriously good reason to.

>> No.38593186

>>38593132
>I don't like the idea of cutting any legions that aren't super unimportant.

I'm sorry, I can't quite wrap my head around that statement. Would you kindly rephrase it?

>> No.38593206

>>38593186
He doesn't like the idea of cutting any legions that aren't super unimportant. What's not to get?

>> No.38593207

>>38593048
>reading the wiki
Oh...
Oh dear god...
Oh, god...
Yeah. This will take some time and effort. I'm willing to give it a shot. You still have that new Legion format on your talk page?

>> No.38593220

>>38593168
The Lions are treading on the Mastodontii pretty hard. Both are Traitor armoured Legions, but the Lions are far better-developed.

>> No.38593258

>>38593059
>>38592982
>>38593151
So three votes for Alex's plan
>>38590988
with the amendment that the BBorgers be cut instead of the HoR.

>>38593174
One vote for what will now be
>Option D: Cut nothing
As well as a suspected vote for the same here >>38593132

None for the others and
>>38592949
One Abstention

>> No.38593282

>>38593258
Meant to say, the HoR be cut instead of the BBorgers.

>> No.38593285

>>38593220
What. WHAT?

Why have the Lions gone from Bikers to Tankers?

At any rate, I was planning on having some Daemon engine razing, ritualistic calling, daemon possessed, daemon infused, good times with the Legion coming to use the warp as a weapon and tool in several ways.

>> No.38593289

>>38593168
>You mean adding to them?
Vitamin D

>>38593174
>I don't understand everybody's problem with the Gorgers. I still don't know anything about the Scions of Europa, and the Crusaders are cool, especially with their new red'n'black nazi paint scheme.

The Gorgers/Bloodbound are currently being worked on by LCK, I don't want to see them axed as well.

You know nothing (Jon Snow) about the Scions of Europa because there is nothing to know, they've been a donation Legion for a long time.

The Crusaders are likewise a Donation Legion and their page doesn't even reflect their new scheme because Gaudin-anon is never here. He doesn't wrte anymore either.

>> No.38593322

>>38593258
Cutting the Scale Bearers I can get because they've been untouched for so long, though a better solution is fleshing them out
Cutting the Mastodontii is the same deal, they need to be fleshed out, not cut.

Cutting the BBorgers is confusing to me and I don't understand people's problems with them.

Cutting the Crusaders is fucking absurd what the fuck

Cutting the Scions is OK with me because like I said I still don't know what the fuck they are and I've even read their wiki page

>> No.38593328

>>38593285
Yeah, what the fuck? Since when are the Lions not bikers? When was this discussed?

>>38593168
I just don't understand how they're a narrative dead end.

>> No.38593338

>>38593174
>just a fun creative writing community
Well, you wrote (and these are the exact words
>Fuck the project. Fuck completion. Fuck being accessible to new readers. Fuck having a coherent canon. Write what you want, and enjoy doing it, everything else is bullshit.
Now, that might be a fun writing community, but I think it's a real outlier in terms of project views.

>>38593285
>Why have the Lions gone from Bikers to Tankers?
They were never bikers. The original military concept for them was British Armoured Divisions. That's why they have a character called Basil Heart.

>> No.38593365

>>38593086

Merrill, email in email field. I'd be willing to try and help out with the Scale Bearers.

If they're important to your fluff (and if you're the last guy to work on them) we should put our heads together.

>> No.38593379

>>38593285
>Lions Rampant
>British nobility
>Basil Hart
a British tank man

>not bikers

you were under the wrong allusions about that friend

still, a big difference from blitzkrieg...

>> No.38593403

>>38593328
>Since when are the Lions not bikers? When was this discussed?
Since always? Here's their page from September:
http://1d4chan.org/index.php?title=Lions_Rampant&oldid=243052#Legion_Organization

>> No.38593415

>>38593285
>>38593328

I likewise share your outrage, they were always the Bikers to me. Even the Legion boxes thingy has them down as Fast Attack.

>> No.38593468

>>38593415
Yeah, that's what I was going by.

>>38593403
I see that now, but that didn't really seem reflected to me in their discussions here on the thread.

In any case, it would be a simple enough fix to make them bikers rather than tankers so they don't step on the Mastodontii wouldn't it?

>> No.38593474

>>38593403
Whataguan?! So not only there is no Biker Legion? There hasn't been for some time? So is that concept then free to be cannibalized?

>> No.38593485

>>38593365
Find me on Skype Jaeger_Wolf

>> No.38593520

>>38593474
>there is no Biker Legion
The Scale Bearers are bikers.

Am I the only one who reads the wiki?

>> No.38593539

This is like the French Revolution man!

>> No.38593559

>>38593539
complete with Emperor Golgothos coming in to reinstate the status quo with the backing of the reactionaries

>> No.38593571

>>38593539

>> No.38593574

>>38593539
Which one?

>> No.38593616

>>38593520
They haven't been touched in months. They're dead in the water, and the only reason they were brought to the chopping block now was to officialize their death. But now it looks like the new Tripfag and Merrill are gonna bring them back so whateves.

>> No.38593620

>>38593520
The Scale Bearers are yeah. But I think they should be cut to some extent. a) they're loyalist and b) don't need to share that many traits with the Chaos ones. I mean, the White Scars share biker space with any number of legion warbands don't they?

>>38593539
The terror must be around the corner.

>> No.38593658

>>38593574
The one that ended with the aristocracy's heads in baskets. The only one.

>> No.38593664

>>38593520
I did know that.

It's post heresy as they get broken up into chapters and sors become a scarcity.

>> No.38593694

>>38593539
>Monsieur Brennus looks out from the basement

Has somebody won yet, or am I going to have to risk getting shot?

>>38592891
Abstaining. The only ones I can really get behind cutting at this time are the Crusaders, unless Thomas comes back. And yes, I know I'm kind of scarce, but I have done stuff lately.

>>38586319
>Thunder Kings
*sigh* I guess that's accurate...clearly I need to flesh that out more.

>> No.38593729

>>38593468
>it would be a simple enough fix to make them bikers rather than tankers so they don't step on the Mastodontii wouldn't it?
Why would we force Wayward to change his concept when there's nobody at the helm of the Mastodontii?

>>38593616
Hey, I would have had them cut, but I'm not dictator.

>>38593620
>warbands
I don't think anyone is stopping bikers here.

>>38593664
>It's post heresy as they get broken up into chapters and sors become a scarcity.
From the page you just fucking read:
>The Scale Bearers' main focus, that of mounted warfare, is a tradition that began with the larger-than-usual contingent of bikes the Legion was granted from Terra, in the days when they were called the Imperial Riders.

>> No.38593740

>>38593620
>The Scale Bearers are yeah. But I think they should be cut to some extent. a) they're loyalist and b) don't need to share that many traits with the Chaos ones. I mean, the White Scars share biker space with any number of legion warbands don't they?

It's chaotic right now, but the Crusaders are pretty much dead. Both the Lions and the Mastodontii do their schtick better. If we cut the Scale Bearers the Loyalists won't have any Armour Legions.

>> No.38593751

>>38593658
There's also the July Revolution and the June Revolution, the latter being the climax of Les Miserables.

>> No.38593792

>>38593729
You wound me.

>> No.38593796

>>38593740
>If we cut the Scale Bearers the Loyalists won't have any Armour Legions.
Except the Cataphracts. Giving them the Soviet "Deep Battle" doctrine would help Alex's woes.

>> No.38593798

>>38593751
Ah yes, those. Whale, we were talking about the BEST French Revolution.

>> No.38593813

>>38593740
The Scale Bearers aren't an armour legion. Lumey just said that. They're a bike legion.

>>38593729
Alex claims he's at the head. I suppose you're right. I just feel like both the Mastondontii and the Lions are strong concepts with enough work in them to not be cut.

>> No.38593833

>>38593798
The June revolution?

>> No.38593835

>>38593813
>Cutting the Lions

THEN WHO'S THE SLAANESHI LEGION GODDAMMIT

>> No.38593848

>>38593796
>Except the Cataphracts. Giving them the Soviet "Deep Battle" doctrine would help Alex's woes.

The Cataphracts' Doctrine is whatever Alex decides it is, I don't like the idea of "giving" him the scraps of Dead Legions.

>> No.38593861

>>38593835
We're not getting back into that.

I literally just said they won't be cut.

>> No.38593875

>>38593835
>Cutting the Lions
The Lions aren't on the chopping block.

>> No.38593892

>>38593796
>>38593848
I, for one, think the Mad Cats should be a tank legion. It's just too perfect.

>> No.38593899

>>38593792
>>38593813
Come on. It's not fair to tell Wayward that he has to make way for Alex's ideas.

If we cut the Mastodontii based on this, I don't mind ditching either the Eyes or the Sand Keepers. SKs are probably the less interesting, even if they have more work on them.

>>38593848
Skim up thread, you'll see that this is not an idea being imposed on the guy.

>> No.38593900

>>38593835
Yeah, the Mastodontii are, whale were on the chopping block. Frankly, no one knows where anybody else is.

>> No.38593929

>>38593892
>Mad Cats should be a tank legion
>Not an omnimech Galaxy
Freebirth, please.

>> No.38593938

>>38593900
Whale?

>> No.38593953

>>38593892
>I, for one, think the Mad Cats should be a tank legion. It's just too perfect.

It would fit their name nicely as whale, yes?

>>>38593899
>Skim up thread, you'll see that this is not an idea being imposed on the guy.

I see now, sorry for being pissy.

>> No.38593965

>>38593929
TIMBER WOLF BEST MECH.

>> No.38593975

>>38593796
It does seem Alex is really starting to hate the Catas, except for the fleet idea he had earlier. I don't think he wants to be the tank battle guy.

>>38593835
Not gonna happen, I don't think.

Also, read your yesterday updates to the SoF, from the way you're working it you seem to be enjoying them. I guess I can support cutting the Cataphracts if you really wanna drop them. But I still think you should just let em sit and go gung-ho into the Sons.

>> No.38593978

>>38593796
>>38593848
>>38593892
>>38593929
>I don't like giving him the scraps of dead Legions
Where the hell does this belief come from? I already HAVE the remains of Dead Legions, look at the WASTE WALKERS.

Besides the point, I like this idea. I wanted this idea originally, but the Cataphracts were meant to be siege specialists...then people told me to lose the siege, and then I got stuck in this limbo where they were 'pragmatic attrition'.

>>38593899
STOP SUGGESTED CUTS THAT MAKE NO SENSE

JESUS CHRIST, EVERYONE LOVES THE SK AND THE EYES HAVE A REASON TO STAY

IF WE CUT THEM THEN WE'D HAVE TO CUT TRAITORS, WHICH ONLY AMPLIFIES OUR PROBLEM

>>38593953
Stop. Saying. Whale.

>> No.38593983

>>38593899
I'm not asking for Wayward to stand aside. When was he last on? I must have missed him. I'd just rather neither go. But that doesn't really work.

So I suppose the Mastodontii have to go even if they are really appealing conceptually.

But I'm not totally sure where giving tanks to Alex comes in from that.

>> No.38593995

>>38593938
Yes, I have been exchanging "whale" for "well" in numerous posts. It is a superior word.

>> No.38594023

>>38593965
I think the Night Gyr and Nova Cat are pretty sick, but the TWolf is the brand standardbearer.

>>38593978
>IF WE CUT THEM THEN WE'D HAVE TO CUT TRAITORS, WHICH ONLY AMPLIFIES OUR PROBLEM
I was suggesting ditching one of the two alongside the Mastodontii.

>> No.38594040

>>38593978
Whale you need to calm down.

>> No.38594050

>>38594023
Except you seem to be ignoring the fact people want less cuts, not more. Pushing it will only make them even less receptive.

>> No.38594054

>>38593953
What whale? I don't understand this simile!
>>38593978
>I like this idea.
I know, right? I can guess why.

>> No.38594056

>hey guys let's cut XYZ
>massive fucking clusterfuck ensues
>a few weeks months later
>hey guys let's cut XYZ
>massive fucking clusterfuck ensues

the wheel keeps on turnin

>> No.38594086

>>38594050
I'm not sure about that. One of the prevalent responses was "don't cut things that have active anons". Although you've revealed that you had plans for the Mastodontii, they seemed to rely on the Lions not staking out similar turf.

Warbands, right? Warbands are cool.

>> No.38594095

>>38594056
We must break the wheel.

Cuts finally have to be made or else this goes no where. Cutting things is the normal way ideas are streamlined and universes are made more cohesive.

>> No.38594096

>>38594056
It is a beautiful wheel nonethless. Plus, this thread is by far the most productive, at least in terms of discussion, in a very long time.

>> No.38594112

>>38594095
>Cuts finally have to be made or else this goes no where. Cutting things is the normal way ideas are streamlined and universes are made more cohesive.
Except for, you know, adding.

>> No.38594116

>>38594056
What else are we supposed to do with abandoned legions?

>> No.38594133

>>38594116
un-abandon them?

>> No.38594150

>>38594116
Golgothos doesn't care if we have a coherent canon.

>> No.38594153

>>38594086
My ideas for the Mastodontii and why I like the Mastodontii will not work as a warband. I have no desire to write the Mastodontii Warband.

I'd much rather change the Lions Rampant to bikers because I talked to Wayward multiple times, referencing the biker stuff, and I think he was going to edit them to emulate that but never got the chance.

>> No.38594159

>>38594133
They're abandoned because nobody wants t work on them.

>> No.38594181

>>38594116

Some of those abandoned Legions had the history made out before abandonment. The Scale Bearers history is 'get ambushed by Iron Rangers and spend the rest of the Heresy understrength and fighting for their lives'.

No offense, but I don't see how that makes them a 'dead Legion'. Might as well say the Loyalist Legions (Void Angels, etc) stuck on the edge of the Galaxy by Hektor are now 'dead Legions' because they're not at the Siege of Terra.

>> No.38594182

>>38594112
>Adding
>Streamlining
Bro-sephine please.

>> No.38594188

>>38593978
Oh! I thought you disliked the tank idea. Well, if you want to go with it, please do.

>>38594133
I suppose some people could take on Multiple legions. After all, Lumey worked up the Eyes when they were on the verge of being replaced. But we'd need people to actually want to do it.


I'm going to make a new thread, we kinda need one.

>> No.38594189

>>38594150
This is accurate.

>> No.38594199

>>38594159
I'll take over pretty much anything
don't expect me to hold back, though

>> No.38594219

>>38594153
Wayward last checked in on the 3rd of March (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/38375943/#38425012) and has been working on the Lions Rampant recently (http://1d4chan.org/index.php?title=Lions_Rampant&action=history) When did you have these conversations?

>>38594181
We're talking about abandonment by the writer and the end of content being developed for the Legion.

>> No.38594245

>>38594219
During Holdfast.

>> No.38594254

>>38594112
So what you're telling me is this.

>Things have issues that need to be addressed
>Forget the issues, just add more stuff

Unless your point is actually

>There are gaping holes in both our story and our legions
>Fill in the legions so the story holes get even fucking bigger

>>38594159
This.

It's either legions that anons float through once a month to remind people not to touch, dead ideas that don't hold water on close inspection so everyone is too busy to deal with them, legions whose idea has just been pushed around a bunch and never has anything done with them, or legions where no one wants to work on them simply because they're too busy doing other project work.

>>38594189
Oh boy I hate you.

>> No.38594261

>>38594199
>don't expect me to hold back, though
Would you still be willing to compromise if even a plurality of the group asked you to?

>> No.38594281

>>38594232
New Thread here

>> No.38594282

>>38594261
oh, of course

>> No.38594294

>>38594254
>>Things have issues that need to be addressed
citation needed

>> No.38594313

>>38594189

>> No.38594341

>>38594245
That was about six weeks ago. He's done quite a lot of writing since. I think it's safe to say that he's had a chance to incorporate the ideas. Either you had a miscommunication or Wayward has thought better of the idea.

>>38594261
Onyx is a #1 Top Bloke. I just want to save his delicious creative juices for basting the Sisters of Battle.

IYKWIMAITYD.

>> No.38594396

This was an excellent thread. Let's keep it up you guys!

>> No.38594431

>>38594341
>IYKWIMAITYD

>> No.38594512

>>38588174
>>38575710
Naps. Wonderful, sometimes. Sometimes you just feel like you've been hit with a 2x4.

Much discussion in the thread after I fell asleep, so sorry if anything I say here is redundant or already decided.

In general, I still really like the idea of more Legions than in canon, but just like internet RPG groups, no one makes the commitment to stick around. So it's time for people to lose some Legions, and if they come back, bummer.

1: Crusaders can go.

2: Scions can go, although I did like them.

3: Entombed can go, although it's public record that Golgothos and I do not get along, and therefore my opinion is biased and almost certainly not worth considering.

4: Horns I like, if only because they're one of the few genuinely assholish Legions we have. They're poorly fleshed out, but they have some potential. But, I also don't feel like writing for them, so if no one wants them, cut em.

5: Bloodbound came in at some point. I saw some art for them and became interested, then the art stopped and I stopped paying attention to them. I have no real opinion on them, which *prooobably* means that I'm more in favor of cutting than not cutting.

6: I could not care less about the Gorgers. You're right, there's a lot of baggage left over from Nathanog, and their themes are questionably useful.

So that's that. And at time of posting there's 224 posts in this thread I haven't read, so there's almost CERTAINLY decisions I don't know about that were made while I was asleep.

So if these opinions/votes are redundant, feel free to discard them.

>> No.38594603

>>38593965
Nigger my Blood Asp will fight you.

>>38593929
hhehehehheh

>>
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