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[ERROR] No.38008520 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

The last one is going to be falling off the board soon, so here's the new one. Let's take a break from talking about good and evil, and pay attention to the other part of the alignment system we hate.

Have you ever seen a DM make a paladin fall for being non-lawful, rather than non-good? Surely there must be some stories out there about paladins who, when forced to choose, felt it necessary to do what was RIGHT, rather than what was ORDERED, yeah?

>> No.38008591

>>38008520
> Paladin of Torag or Iomadae accept a surrender from a non-evil enemy with sobbing back story
> Suddenly Fall because breaking Oath

would be hilarious if it happen

>> No.38008624

>>38008520
Where do paladins get their powers from? I thought it came from a patron deity like clerics, but another player is telling me that's not true.

>> No.38008737

How can I fuck people up with Monk and/or Druid?

>> No.38008836

>>38008591

>Yes, I accept your surrender
>I will take you to the nearest settlement
>I will see to it that you're given a proper trial and sentencing.
>And when you are found guilty - and I assure you, you will be found guilty - I will watch you hang.
>So you have two choices here; pick up that sword and die now, or hang later.

>> No.38009179

>>38008520
The whole "paladin falling" thing is bullshit and shouldn't exist any more.

>> No.38010657

Rate my barbarian /pfg/

>> No.38010704

>>38010657

>> No.38010743

>>38010657
>>38010704

Amazing damage potential, solid saves, but it just feels like your HP is too low.

>> No.38010769

>>38010657
>Dumb as fuck
>Strong

10/10 Barbarian. Would use him as a pack-mule.

>> No.38010831

>>38010743
>>38010769
SOrta. My con isn't that great, and I went for the +str/+dex belt for more AAOs with come and get me. Not sure how to bring the con up without going above WBL. i'm already at 108,715 out of 108,000 GP. Any suggestions? Drop some AC Items for the +all physical stats belt?

>> No.38010837

>>38010704
Why did you take armor proficiency you already have?

>> No.38010866

>>38010704
8/10
Cons: Low defense, and lacks something that breaks attacks via come and get me
Low Hp
Superstition and no moment of clarity, ignore depending on group composition.
I'm not sold on Furious, but I feel that is mostly personal taste.
Get a weapon chain, locked gauntlet, or a backup weapon, and depending on group comp, consider dr defeating enhancements to your weapon.

>> No.38010868

>>38010837
I didn't. Thats just how it shows all of the "feats" you have. It basically has "fighter: free feat at level 1: _____ proficency"

ALso: note that it has the full "spell sunder" powers, pounce totem powers, and Come and get me as well as Eater of magic. Second chance trait as well. I wanted really good defense vs save or die.

>> No.38010870

>>38010831
>Any suggestions? Drop some AC Items for the +all physical stats belt?

You are entering the point in DnD where AC doesn't matter, immunity to effects is king, and HP should keep you alive for at least one turn.

Buy a Manual of Health +4 or something.

>> No.38010886

>>38010831
Pull a Guts, and convince your DM to let you wield your greatsword one-handed.

>> No.38010920

>>38010866
Also,
>mithral breastplate on a barb
I don't see a reason, as you will still outspeed almost anything, and you are not penalized much for having mid armor.
You spent a feat on armor prof, did you mean to take mith fullplate? That could work.
(note, really, fix those feats)

>> No.38010990

>>38010870
I kinda agree, but being able to block some iterative attacks may help me on the HP front. I probably won't block any primary attacks though. I'm also at my WBL limit. Not sure what I should drop for more con. In a pinch i can get +4 ac, -4 to hit by deactivating reckless abandon, or go all in with a further -4 ac by using come and get me.

>>38010886
I can lift over my head 1.7 tons...You think I could wield a bigger sword? oh well.

>>38010920
dropping the mithril brings my speed down to 30. I also have winged boots and the light armor lets my fly faster

>> No.38010993

Are there Elves still on Sovyrian (which is on the planet Castrovel.)

More specifically, are there *more* Elves in Sovyrian then there are Elves in Golarion? Because on one hand it's suggested Sovyrian is a temporary refuge, while on the other they imply it's an ancient, ancestral homeland and the Elves of Golarion are just a colony.

>> No.38011113

>>38008836
Torag paladin can't accept surrender ever.
> Against my people’s enemies, I will show no mercy. I will not allow their surrender, except when strategy warrants.

>> No.38011131

>>38010657
>>38010704
Just did some math. Getting the +4str/+4dex/+4con item will cost me 20K more gold but give me +2 fort save and +24 HP. I really can't afford that, and I don't want to drop my str or dex bonuses. I might have to wait till level 12 or level 14 to afford them. Things get crazy quick though.

>>38011113
I would think that "not having your next enemy fight tooth and nail to the bitter end because you murder captives" would count as warranted strategy.

>> No.38011156

>>38010990
Make me curious, why can't a flying mount fly in Medium/Heavy Barding but a Humanoid can?

>> No.38011197

>>38011131
No Warranted Strategy would be if you need them alive for infomations or if having the target dead somehow compromise the mission.

Dwarves are hardcore like that.

>> No.38011229

>>38011197
I don't know man. Put someone's back against a wall and they fight a lot fucking harder. Offer them a easy way out and you will take fewer casualties in your victories. Then you can ransom them back or just release them, depending on the situation. Winning hearts and minds wins wars a lot faster than killing them does.

>> No.38011389

>>38008624

In Pathfinder, Paladins receive their divine powers from the universe rewarding their lawful goodness

In Golarion, Paladins receive their divine powers from lawful and/or good deities

hope that helps

>> No.38011466

>>38011113
That is for racial enemies of dwarves, such as drow and elves

>> No.38011490

>>38011466
Well...when the sexy ones surrender you have to rape them first. Then impale them on a blunt stick through the vagina to execute them. They are elves and and dark elves. they deserve it.

>> No.38011566

>>38011490
What the fuck anon? Really?

>> No.38011860

>>38010657
>>38010704
You guys got any suggestions for magic items? I have teh boring standard stuff already, but was thinking of getting some more utility things.

>> No.38012626

I cant decide On what to pick to go with my Holy Inquisitor of Irori. Obviously Inquisitor but im torn between Sacred Fist or Monk. Any opinions?

>> No.38012797

>>38012626

Both. Sacred Fist/Master of Many Styles

>> No.38012839

>>38012797
So just multiclass all 3? Starting lvl 5 do something like 2/2/1?

>> No.38012915

>>38012626
Why are you multiclassing in the first place?

>> No.38012940

>>38012915
I want my Inquisitor to use unarmed

>> No.38013072

>>38012940
Inquisitor of Irori already has improved unarmed strike. Please tell me you're not seriously consider gimping yourself forever for +1 damage from multiclassing.

>> No.38013100

>>38011229

Dwarves don't tend to be the 'hearts and minds' sort.

>> No.38013161

>>38013072
Damn I missed it. Still new so its a bit overwhelming. Is sacred Fist full of redundancies also?

>> No.38013205

>>38011229
no. Dwarf do things easy way.

They hurt you, you hit them until they die. Unless letting them live allows you it more of them. Dwarf hold grudge (they have racial trait called Hatred for a reason) and doesn't forgive.

You're thinking of Sheryn or Sarenrae not Torag. Not all god are the same and if you don't do thing Torag way, you fall.

>> No.38013243

>>38013161
Yes.

Any reason why you can't play Sacred Fist and fluff him as Inquisitor?

>> No.38013260

>>38013205
*Dwarf don't do things the easy way.

>> No.38013281

>>38013243
Wouldn't know how. When you say "fluff" you mean backstory? Take the title but not the class?

>> No.38013385

>>38013281
Basically, call your self an Inquisitor, roleplay a character who performs Inquisitor style duties, root out chaos and disorder, all while having a character build that's all the more viable for the thing you want to do (Unarmed Strikes)

Sacred Fist is the closest thing to Inquisitor, getting 6th level casting. But yeah, Unarmed Strikes are really terrible if you're not playing a class that can boost its damage by a ton.

>> No.38013389

>>38013243

>He'd play a samurai who wasn't a member of the japanese noble caste

disgusting

>> No.38013416

>>38013281
it's both. Class is a game mechanic while title and backstory aren't.

You could be a battle orient Cleric and called yourself Warpriest. A Bard,Rogue or Alchemist can called himself Spymaster.

Anyone who main goal is to eliminate the heresy could be called Inquisitor.

>> No.38013434

>>38013389
> Not playing a short canadian beast totem Barbarian and honor all the samurai code.

>> No.38013440

>>38013434

>playing a barbarian who isn't a non-roman

disgusting

>> No.38013494

>>38013385
>>38013416
Thanks for the tips! Anything I should look at to milti with Sacred Fist or let it rock as-is? I would like to go up the disarm tree if possible

>> No.38013530

>>38013494

Master of Many Styles

>> No.38013535

>>38013494
General rule of thump is that if you can cast spell, you never to multiclass.

>> No.38013628

>>38013535

A good rule of thumb for everyone but sacred fists, who require a dip into master of many styles (I mean, unless you don't want pummeling charge until level 12)

>> No.38013775

>>38013628
That's why you retrain back to Warpriest after level 12.

Also since he is new, you should tell him that he only need 2 level of monk and no further.

>> No.38013870

>>38013775
>>38013628
>retraining
I looked it up. You saying I should take the MMS to start but after level 12 retrain the MMS levels to Warpriest?

>> No.38013971

>>38013870
Sounds like a good plan.

The build starts with 1 level Sacred Fist for pummeling style, then 1 level MoMS for fuse style and pummeling charge. From there on it is advised to grab Dragon Style (you can take another level of MoMS to make that easy), but otherwise you are free to do whatever.

>> No.38014004

>>38009179
Yes, good point, lets strip out the remaining flavour that that class has. Who needs anything other than stats and the ability to kill shit more effectively. Especially when it is apocryphally used to fuck players over.

>> No.38014035

>>38008737

>How can I fuck people up with Monk

Anon, I have some bad news for you...

>or Druid

Look up the "D" in "CoDzilla". Pathfinder deviates from 3.5, but the power level of a druid is still very high.

>> No.38014254

My GM allows me to use simulacrum once (as long as it's not a infinite Wish bullshit).

I want a portable fortress but I can't decide between a simulacrum of Astral Leviathan or Stone Colossus.

Leviathan can fly pretty fast but I needs to find a way to put building on top of it.
Colossus has build-in Keep mode, came with weapon and has better DR and fast healing but it's slow and land-bound, so I'll needs to find a way to increase it speed and find something better than overland flight.

>> No.38014297

>>38011860

Yes. You're obviously an actual threat to any and all NPCs your DM can throw at you.

Obtain this as quickly as possible, and be thankful you have it.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bandages-of-rapid-recovery

>> No.38014313

Are there any good obscure paladin deities?

Imordae or whatever feels like some writers waifu. Generally seems like a poor excuse for a god. Torag is cool I guess but he's a dwarf.

Is there anything like Heironeous?

>> No.38014350

>>38014004
What great flavor, "if I step out of line or if I do anything that can be remotely seen as stepping out of the line, or if the GM doesn't like the player at all, or if the GM and the player disagree on ethics in any fashion, or [literally any other of the shitloads of reasons] a great mystical force can strip me of all my powers and then I'm more useless than a fighter until I can jump through hoops to get my powers back, if ever."

The concept of a paladin does not EVER mandate a fall requirement, and falling is the most boring possible way to punish someone. The only reason this bullshit is still around is because nerds hate change, and any attempts to change lead to "feelings" being used as a bludgeon to preserve a notion that should be shot down.

>> No.38014409

>>38014350
It's to keep paladins righteous. You have a responsibility and a code as a paladin. If you fuck it up you're no longer a paladin. There is no leeway.

If people could just go "lol I kill him, w/e he was a dick to me" and get away with it they wouldn't be paladins anymore.

Consider it like being the face for a big company or something. You got to represent. If you go snort cocaine of hookers that reflects poorly on the company so you get fired. It's simple.

Also fuck you for the whole "nerds hate change" shit. Get the fuck out of here.

>> No.38014421

>>38008520
Paladins don't and shouldn't fall for violating the lawful component of their alignment, tho. Its vitally important that paladins be able to perform chaotic actions when necessary.

This is, of course, different in 1e, where law vs chaos was strikingly more important, and chaotic acts were a bit more extreme.

>> No.38014432

>>38014313
Ragathiel.

>> No.38014446

>>38014409
Paladins falling only belongs when they were fighters+, rather than when they are a fighter- plus a cleric-.

The formula in 4e and 5e, where there are "fallen" variations on the class (blackguard and oathbreaker), is drastically superior -- AS AN OPTION you can swap out the class, but they're not weaker in power.

>> No.38014453

>>38014432
>Ragathiel
OH YEAH, shit nigga I forgot about those ones. Ragathiel is one great fucking paladin diety. Thanks man.

>> No.38014459

>>38014446

Eh, Blackguard seriously suffers from Radiant being a lot harder to resist than Necrotic.

I wouldn't really call it better than the 4e Paladin.

I do agree that falling is not a really sensible mechanic though.

>> No.38014493

>>38014459
Pervasive Light lets them trigger radiant on everything, and blackguard necrotic stuff deals cold+necrotic, not just necrotic. I wouldn't call it better, but it is probably on par with the Cavalier.

Mostly, though, I think of cha dominant blackguard hybrids as packing a mean virtuous strike on behalf of lazylord allies and such. Also sort of nice to be able to add triple charisma to damage every round, quadruple with wrath of the gods, and there's another HoS thing that adds charisma to your damage for the encounter too.

>> No.38014512

>>38014459
In 4e, the Paladin and Blackguard had two different jobs.

The Paladin was the guy who kept everyone on your team alive by making it tough for enemies to want to him them.

The Blackguard is the guy who keeps everyone on your team alive by making all the enemies dead first.

The Blackguard was basically a Striker-variant Paladin. Not as good as other strikers, but was much tankier than most since few strikers had automatic proficiency in plate.

Also, the Necrotic thing isn't very bad, because most of the Blackguard's features that do Necrotic(like Dread Smite) also do Cold damage, so an enemy has to resist both types to benefit from energy resistance.

The Blackguard I had in general is one of the more fun characters I've played during my 4e career.

>> No.38014525

>>38014313
Ragathiel is like an edgier Heironeous.

I think he's pretty cool, but he's definitely edgy as fuck (literally the son of Dis, muh redemption, etc.)
Most of you dorks would lose your damn minds if a player wanted to play a character like that.

>> No.38014540

>>38014493
The Cavalier was just bad. The main reason the Paladin's punishment worked was for two reasons.

1. Feat support
2. Range

There were a lot of feats that added benefits onto the Divine Sanction punishment, and the range meant you didnt' have to worry about enemies moving away from you. This is mainly because the Paladin's punishment damage was a LOT weaker than other's punishments.

The Cavalier has none of that. It uses an aura mechanic without boosting the damage, so enemies have to be next to you to get punished, and since they were different class features, feats that boosted the divine sanction couldn't be used for the Cavalier.

I'm mostly bitter about the Cavalier because Mearls, in his usual infinite wisdom," took mounts away from the Paladins because he thought that would get people to play the Cavalier.

>> No.38014559

>>38014540

>I'm mostly bitter about the Cavalier because Mearls, in his usual infinite wisdom," took mounts away from the Paladins because he thought that would get people to play the Cavalier.

Bwuh? Any paladin can get mounts, including a mighty decent silver dragon at epic; which, incidentally, makes them one of the only kind of defender that can use their mark in a 1 on 1 session with only their native class abilities.

>> No.38014567

>>38014559
Nope, not anymore. Those feats are Cavalier exclusive now.

>> No.38014571

>>38014525
I just wanna roll some dice and blaze through evil with friends. Ragathiel is perfect for that.

>> No.38014581

>>38014567
Are you sure? The dmag didn't think so, and couldn't find any word of it in the updates.

>> No.38014594

>>38014512

Right, I'd forgotten it was also cold.

I still wouldn't call either better. As you said, they were two different classes and I loved the shit out of the base paladin.

>>38014540

You forgot the #3 reason it worked well. It didn't take an actual action to do the punishment itself. It made multi-marking really good for Paladins as they couldn't just threaten everyone, they could make everyone suffer if they broke it.

>> No.38014596

>>38014581
I'll try to look up exactly when that change happened. All I know is that the CharOp boards were kind of irritated when that happened.

>> No.38014610

>>38014594
That was a different anon from me and nobody said the blackguard was better.

>> No.38014616

>>38014409
>It's to keep paladins righteous. You have a responsibility and a code as a paladin. If you fuck it up you're no longer a paladin. There is no leeway.
You know what keeps people righteous? Themselves. You don't need the sword of fucking Damocles hanging over your head. Either literally only paladins are allowed to be righteous, or their righteousness is in fact a complete sham.
>If people could just go "lol I kill him, w/e he was a dick to me" and get away with it they wouldn't be paladins anymore.
That's not significantly different from "lol I kill him, w/e he was a dick to someone else," people do that all the time when they're supposed to be the shiny moral paragons that people aspire to emulate. If a player is being a self-absorbed prick, then they'll pick another class, thus making the fall mechanic useless, or they'll not care, making the fall mechanic useless, or they'll bitch you out, which ruins fun in general. Sure, they'll get tossed out, but if they were an asshole of that caliber, the fall mechanic does nothing. Meanwhile, the fall mechanic DOES negatively impact people who want to play shining moral paragons by effectively neutering any attempt at exploring morality as the player tries to preserve their competence, or having basic disagreements on ethics be objectively enforced by the GM (the universe), leading to horrid arguments.

It's an outdated, shitty mechanic.
>Consider it like being the face for a big company or something. You got to represent. If you go snort cocaine of hookers that reflects poorly on the company so you get fired. It's simple.
Your analogy would work, if CEOs lost their business acumen, all their education, and so forth, essentially reverting to an only marginally more capable version of themselves before they began learning the how tos of business and exploiting the shit out of people.
>Also fuck you for the whole "nerds hate change" shit.
Sorry bud, but it's truth.
>Get the fuck out of here.
nah m8 im good

>> No.38014623

>>38014571
He is absolutely perfect for that.

He also hates sluts, apparently.

>> No.38014629

>>38014610

...holy hell. You are right.

I am so terribly sorry. I completely misinterpreted

>The formula in 4e and 5e, where there are "fallen" variations on the class (blackguard and oathbreaker), is drastically superior

as

>The formula in 4e and 5e, where there are "fallen" variations on the class (blackguard and oathbreaker), ARE drastically superior

I am so very sorry. I got a bit grumpy at nothing. Even more so I got grumpy at someone I was agreeing with 100%.

>> No.38014673

>>38014596
Found it, Dragon Magazine 393.

Apparently it wasn't an exclusive at first, but it got stealth errata'd later.

I'd still houserule that Paladins can grab Summon Celestial Steed at level 6. As-is, Summon Celestial Steed can only be taken as a replacement for another Cavalier power at level 4.

>> No.38014689

>>38014623
Damerrich is also a certified badass for the cold ass killer types.

>> No.38014694

>>38014629
Ahh I see, was a bit confused.

Especially what I enjoyed is the subtle distinctions in meaning: the 3e blackguard is weaker than the vanilla paladin in a lot of ways (drastically less support all around), and although Smite Evil/Good rarely matters, Smite Good is still a lot worse than Smite Evil, just because evil people have to deal with all sorts of evil beasts all the time too (fiends fight all the time, undead attack lifers all the time, mind flayers don't care if you're good or evil, chromatic dragons don't care, etc.).

Even though there's no official rule that says you can go from paladin to blackguard, the fact that it describes cavaliers as turning evil in certain cases, and that cavaliers MUST be certain alignments, and that core-paladins MUST be the alignment of their god, and that some blackguards are known as fallen paladins etc, leads me to think that its obviously intended that sufficiently poorly behaved paladins convert.

Conceptually, blackguards work in 4e because their defender features sloughing off and being replaced by more self-aggrandizing ones still reminds you of a paladin, but they work differently.

But also, I dig how, like fallen paladins in general, they don't -necessarily- have to be evil.

I'm thinking a really nifty story arc might be something like a deva paladin winding up as a revenant blackguard through the course of a campaign. Hardly original, but certainly not something I've done.

>> No.38014701

>>38014313
Damerrich.
Patron of righteous executioners and judges.
He embodies civil responsibility.

Far better than that edgy brat that is Ragathiel.

>> No.38014747

>>38014701
>>38014689
I dunno, guys. Ragathiel's mom is pretty hot. That's gotta count for something, right?

>> No.38014777

>>38014747
I see what you did there.

Also, his father feels pretty much like Darth Vader if you think about it.
>Best city in the multiverse
>Can go there and commerce without fear of having your stuff stolen or getting mugged
>Almost impossible to make a faulty commercial contract if you hire a contract devil and other infernal bureaucrats.
>Cosmopolitan as fuark
>No chaos aligned herp derps.

>> No.38014804

What are some of the best things for a Quigong Monk to pick up?

The list is pretty extensive and I'm not 100% sure on what to pick.

>> No.38014838

>>38014804
Go full Dragonball Z if you can.
Fireball, levitate, stoneskin...

>> No.38014910

>>38014804
What kind of monk are you? You just specialize depend on your style.

>> No.38014929

>>38014804

Ki Leech and Cold Ice Strike are mandatory

Flaming Crow Strike used to be mandatory, but then came along Pummeling Charge and now it has much less usefulness

>> No.38014952

>>38014910

I'm helping a friend test his monk homebrew.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11nq1t2OWtZw1BLaqGgb41-gXosQ5O_GYegSsiQbeX6Q/edit?usp=sharing

So Flaming Crow Strike and Cold Ice Strike are looking no so useful as they are built into it.

I figured if I'm going Kitsune, I might as well go full magical asshole kitsune with Quigong for a few Ki-Spells.

>> No.38015001

>>38014929
>>38014952
Since we're talking about Qinggong monk..

If I exchange Slow Fall for Bark Skin at level 4, they wiykd get Slow Fall at level 6 instead of the progression right?

>> No.38015078

>>38014929
>>38014804

Of 4th level powers, you will get the most out of Bark Skin, True Strike, Scorching Ray, and Mighty Fist of the Earth

Ki Stand and Deny Death are also contenders, while they suck they have a 0 ki cost

Of 6th level powers, only Gaseous Form is a contender

Of 8th level powers, Share Memory is an interesting if not very powerful choice. Poison isn't terrible but it's probably just not good enough. Dragon's Breath if you didn't take Scorching Ray earlier.

10th level = ki leech, your best ki power bar none. Spit Venom and Shadow Step are decent choices but that's it.

12th level is Abundant Step. Shadow Walk is situationally useful but is really just better off being cast by your party's spell caster

Everything above 14th level is complete garbage, with the exception of Flaming Crow Strike and Cold Ice Strike

>> No.38015109

>>38015078

>12th level is Abundant Step. Shadow Walk is situationally useful but is really just better off being cast by your party's spell caster

Yeah...about that.

We don't have a caster. We have a Monk, a Warder and a Harbringer.

>> No.38015146

>>38015109

It's still only useful very situationally

Potentially you can escape a hostile environment by travelling to the plane of shadow (out of the frying pan into the fire usually though), use it as a means of fast travel if you have no way to teleport, and use it to get to other planes if for some reason your DM has a multiplanar adventure and doesn't provide you the tools to go on it

>> No.38015251

>>38015109
> Harbinger
How is it? My GM won't let me play one since I one shotted his self insert at level 3.

>> No.38015267

>>38015251

I have zero clue. Game hasn't started yet.

Looking foward to seeing.

>> No.38015269

>>38015251
Our game hasn't started yet (DM of the game here, not the same anon). I am kind of amused--the harbinger seems like MAXIMUM EDGELORD: the class, but it's entirely possible it won't play out that way.

>> No.38015365

>>38015109
>>38015078
> Shadow Walk is faster than a Warship or Galley

Why is every mundane travel method is so freaking slow in Pathfinder.

>> No.38015430

>>38015365
>Why is mundane inferior to magic or supernatural

I think you answered your own question, anon.

>> No.38015458

>>38015365
Tell me about it.

In one game I was in, we stole a pirate ship and was taking it to a town that looked fairly close on the map.

We got to an island that was like 1/5th of the way between our starting location and the town. Apparently it took us about 3 months to get there, and 2 of those months were spent in a ship chase. By the same pirate ship. Nonstop. We're really damn lucky we stole that pirate ship(something the DM didn't actually plan on us doing), otherwise it would have taken us almost a year to get there on foot.

>> No.38015470

>>38015365
If you really start thinking about movement and speed in Pathfinder, you're bound to give yourself a headache.

>> No.38015479

>>38015458

Ships are slow

They're preferred over land routes because it's hard to get lost if you're not a shit navigator and it's hard to ambush a dude at sea, and you can carry a whole shitload of stuff on them, not because of their speed

>> No.38015492

>>38011113

The subordinate clause "except when strategy warrants" is doing a *LOT* of heavy lifting in that sentence...

>> No.38015514

>>38015251
I've played one for about 3 sessions. It reminds me a bit of a Stalker, with a bunch of neat movement options like flight, teleporting, etc. They have probably one of the best maneuver recovery systems in all of PoW, and at higher levels they almost become SAD with regards to how much they rely on Intelligence.

The exclusive disciplines have a lot of curse effects and such, though I haven't explored them too much.

>> No.38015534

>>38015479
I get that they're slow, but it took us 3 months to get to a place that looked like it was barely 10 miles away.

Not to mention the nonstop 2 month long ship chase.

We've been kinda hesitant to leave the island because of that.

>> No.38015535

What do you think they will do to Summoner in Unchained?

Nerf? Buff? Maybe they will be real 9th caster now instead of trying to disguise it as 6th caster?

>> No.38015558

>>38014689

I read that as 'the weighted swag'

>> No.38015562

>>38015534
Chasing a ship for 2 months is ludicrous, even by PF's laughably anachronistic technological base.

Oceans are big. Unless each and every ship has a diviner on board, all it takes is building a lead of 15-20 miles (maybe 30 tops) and then you're over the horizon, the fleeing ship's mast hidden by the curvature of the world.

This might last a day, 2 at the outside, if the captain has an absolute need to chase down the one ship.

Two months? Your DM needs his scaleometer re-calibrated.

>> No.38015568

>>38014446
Actually, 4e's version of falling was the church having enough of the paladin's shit and sending Avengers after him, possibly backed up by Clerics, Invokers and other Paladins.

>> No.38015616

>>38015562
They were very slowly gaining on us the entire chase, and they had a much better boat than us, so it was never a question of "if we're escaping", but "when they'll eventually give up."

They didn't. They're the ones hunting us on the island. We only lost them because we slipped into a smaller area they couldn't reach, then swam over, snuck on their ship, and basically disabled it.(Our Barbarian smashed the steering mechanisms while my Aegis used it as a distraction to go underwater and smash their rudder).

What irked me about this later though was that an NPC Wizard apparently left and flew back towards our starting point and made it there in a day. It was a higher level Wizard sure, but still.

>> No.38015691

Does somebody have the pdf of Divinity Drive?
I can share the PDFs of the first three modules of Iron Gods, People of the Stars and People of the River.

>> No.38015694

>>38015616
2 months is still ludicrous. A chase like that should barely have lasted days, unless you all sat around with no wind and no other forms of mundane or magical propulsion for five weeks.

>> No.38015733

>>38015558

>> No.38015749

>>38015691
If we're requesting Pdfs, I still haven't read spheres of magic.

>>38015535
"nerf" followed by an expanded spell list that makes up for the loss. Probably only hits synth summoner.

God I just want rogues to be good.

>> No.38015785

>>38015733
I keep my slapping succubus hand strong.

>> No.38015787

>>38015694
I might be exaggerating on the two months, but I know it was at least multiple weeks and took up the majority of our trip from start to island. We haven't even been anywhere plot important yet, and in-game we've left the start almost half a year ago(in-game time), and we're level...11 I think right now? We've gained about 8 levels on this island alone.

>> No.38015897

>>38015787
To be clear (I hope I am?), I'm not riffing on you or your party, your DM just needs a better understanding of age-of-sail ships. Spending weeks at sea in decent weather will get you moving HUNDREDS of miles. Maybe the distance scale was skewed on whatever you were looking at, and instead of 10 miles it was a thousand? I don't know, but when you can move 12-16 knots pretty constantly you'll cover a lot of ground in just one day, much less a week.

And if the pirates had a ship that was actually so much better, as you mentioned, the chase should have ended in hours of in-game time.

Of course I'm also navy-sperging from an overdose of Wooden Ships and Iron Men books, so feel free to ignore.

>> No.38015929

>>38015733


I love you

>> No.38015959

>>38014952
Homebrew author here. Anyone notice any loopholes I need to close up or abuses I need to tone down?

>> No.38015970

>>38015897
I'll doubvle check the scale a bit later and get back to yoiu on that.

>> No.38016065

>>38014313
Well Murlynd has always been my favorite deity for paladins, but I assume you mean in the default Golarion setting?

>> No.38016069

How is mesmerist looking? Is it currently on tier 3?

>> No.38016112

so late last year i got into pathfinder with my ex cos i've always wanted to try it

i got p far into it and apparently wasnt that-guy

only problem is obviously the group fell apart and now im cravin' some pathfinder action

i found roll20 a while ago and have been lookin at shit, but all the LFG shit on there is really fucking weird shit in the pathfinder section, hardcore furry shit or "YOU BEGIN SWIMMING IN FECES AND PISSE"

man i just wanna play pathfinder i dont wanna join some fetish shit

what do

>> No.38016125

>>38015749
The fuck is spheres of magic?

>> No.38016138

>>38016125
Alternative magic system. Instead of arcane/divine and spell lists with concrete spells, you combine "spheres" of magic to form effects.

>> No.38016155

>>38015959

It's for a faggot furry race?

>> No.38016240

Anyone got any archetypes for this grimdark Pathfinder game I'm gonna run, like ones I can recommend to my players? It'll be inspired by Darksouls sorta, so theres that.

>> No.38016253

>>38016069
Usually the tier referenced is something like this, though there is always some debate:

>Tier 1:
Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Witch, Sorcerer (Razmiran Priest/False Priest), Oracle (Paragon Surge/Lunar/Ancient Lorekeeper etc.), Arcanist, Shaman, Psychic
>Tier 2:
Oracle, Sorcerer, Summoner, Magus (Hexcrafter), Bard (Magician), Skald (UMD/Expanded Spell Kenning)
>Tier 3:
Alchemist, Bard, Inquisitor, Magus, Investigator, Warpriest, Paladin (Sacred Servant), Hunter, Skald, Mesmerist, Occultist, Spiritualist, Bloodrager (Monstrous Physique UMD)
>Tier 4:
Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger, Adept, Brawler, Slayer, Fighter (Eldritch Guardian/Lore Warden/Mutation Warrior/Martial Master), Bloodrager, Medium
>Tier 5:
Cavalier, Samurai, Fighter, Gunslinger, Rogue, Ninja, Swashbuckler, Monk (Archetypes - namely Qinggong Monk), Kineticist
>Tier 6:
Aristocrat, Warrior, Commoner, Expert, Monk (Core Only)

With regards to DSP's Psionics, its often:

>Tier 2:
Psion, Wilder
>Tier 3:
Psychic Warrior, Dread, Tactician, Vitalist
>Tier 4:
Soul Knife, Aegis, Cryptic, Marksman


That should answer any questions.

>> No.38016258

>>38014952
The wording on the whole foxfire thing is wonky. Just say you have a supernatural weapon that is ranged, deals this damage, and functions as a ranged weapon for feats and shit. I would move the aoe to later levels. Still a way powerful one level dip.

>> No.38016306

>>38016253
Also known as:
Full progression prepared casters
Full progression spontaneous casters
Not full casters (mud bloods)
Muggles
Shitter muggles

>> No.38016340

>>38016306
Hello Lucius Malfoy, shouldn't you be chasing after police officers and trying to kill some munchkin from another dimension?

>> No.38016393

How do people actually build for combat with investigators? Feels like not taking mutagens cripples it too much, but with mutagens it's just a weaker alchemist that's more on the skillmonkey side, I don't want mutagen alchemist flavor.

>> No.38016540

>>38016393

Investigators are pretty bad

They have spells (inb4 someone whines that they don't) and can abuse int stacking as well as the next guy, but otherwise they'd be rogue tier

>> No.38016550

>>38016393
Replace the mutagen with the cognatogen for crazy mind boosting power.

>> No.38016610

>>38016393
Shortbow? Str build? Dual wielding Rapier?

>> No.38016673

>>38016258
For one level you get a 1d4-damage 30-foot ranged attack that provokes, and can target up to two creatures 15ft apart. And +2 skill points.

That's way powerful?

The AoE doesn't line up with spellcaster AoEs, and it replaces the "improvements" a monk gets at those same levels with Stunning Fist.

The base foxfires ability is basically worded in usual legalese because if it were at all reduced, there would be far too many loopholes or unclear items (like "can I flurry with it" or "how many does it spawn when I use it" or etc.).

>> No.38016735

>>38015616
>while my Aegis used it as a distraction to go underwater and smash their rudder
Aegis once against confirmed for best martial - You are the motherfucking Navy SEAL.

Initiator Aegis archetype when, DSP? I want to have my cake and eat it, too.

>> No.38016796

>>38016673
Its "too powerfull" because its a very front loaded class. Just take the first level in it and then go alchemist or something. Its not actually "powrfull" compared to barbarian. If anything its too weak. Not enough damage, any DR at all...etc.

>> No.38016797

>>38016393

Fencing Grace, slug a Dex Mutagen, Studied Combat, give zero fucks. Beyond that, you might want to look at one of the Investigator guides.

Get good with Studied Combat and you'll probably notice a good boost in combat effectiveness. It's a huge edge over the rogue, and even the Alchemist has trouble matching that boost, although he gets bombs, which give him a different solution.

>>38016253

How's the Occultist work again? I think that and the Kineticist are the only ones my GM is looking at to add at our table at the moment, and while I have some frail hopes left for the Kineticist it's best to look to other options at this point.

>> No.38016847

>>38016796

Couldn't you say the same about Monk in general? It gets stunning fist at the same level, which is really a better ability than a 10ft cone of 1d4 damage.

What would you do on the damage/DR front?

>> No.38016858

>>38014254
Anyone?

>> No.38016873

>>38016847

15 ft cone, sorry.

>> No.38016886

> Mesmerist
> Doesn't get Handle Animal as class skill

There goes my dream of building a circus...

>> No.38016899

>>38016847
pick an element, it now does that damge? pick a second possible element at level 6? choose which element it does before each attack?

>> No.38016996

>>38016873
The cone doesn't come into play until level 4.

>>38016899
The foxfires eventually transition to purely divine damage, like how Flamestrike is "half-fire, half-divine". While it begins as fire, eventually it will become unresistable.

>> No.38016997

>>38016886

Well, you can still hypnotize random NPCs to be your performers if you're into that kind of thing. Apparently the designers assumed that was what you'd think of first.

Well, there's always traits for that stuff.

>> No.38017055

>>38016797
3/4th BAB
2 Good Saves (Fort/Will)
d8 Hit Die
4+Int skills per level
Proficient in all simple/martial weapons and light/medium armor + shields (no tower)
Int based spontaneous caster with 6th level spells
Some class abilities based on UMD/drawing magic circles

Big thing is how you gain spells/class abilities:
>Focus pool
you put points of the pool into implements and they give you access to the spells in that school ie. a doll or skull for necromancy
points can be spent on using school abilities
points can be left in the object for resonant abilities (ie. resistance bonus to saves, familiar with wizard level = 2x points invested)

You can also shift focus points to different implements

>> No.38017338

>>38017055

Ah, right, I remember that one. Lots of book-keeping, but seems like a rewarding class if they don't nerf it for some reason.

Well, it's an INT-based caster, so most likely it will be stronger in the final version. Hopefully the Kineticist's designer is able to get its rear in gear so I'm not trying to talk people out of playing the class when it comes out. My table loves them some Avatar, and I'm really reluctant to run a campaign where one dude's a Kineticist, one dude's a Rogue, and one dude's a fucking Arcanist.

>> No.38017549

>>38013440
Are you suggesting us Canadians are filthy Romans, eh? I'll cover you in syrup and toss you to the beavers, eh?

>> No.38017968

>>38016550
Alchemist/Psion build then?

>> No.38018036

>>38017968
Possibly, or maybe a Mindchemist.

>> No.38018069

>>38018036
I also made this at one point

>Beastmorph/Wild Rager/Feral shifter

>> No.38018142

if you could choose the whole pathfinder party what would you choose and why.

>> No.38018199

>>38018142

Party of 5:

4x Diviner Wizard
1x Spell Sage Wizard

Or some other combination of the two

>> No.38018210

>>38018142
Kobold Swarm fighters

>> No.38018218

>>38018199
And when the enemy starts getting smart and using nondetection, all your diviners are useless.

It wouldn't take long at all for that to happen.

>> No.38018272

>>38018218

>Always go first
>Never fail a roll
>Useless

What?

>> No.38018393

>>38018218
You don't play Divination school Wizards for divination spells. You play them to completely negate the "They can be surprised" weakness of Wizards.

>> No.38018732

>>38016253
Psion is the psionic equivilant to Wizard, right? What makes it T2 when the Wizard is T1? And I don't mean "Are psionics more balanced than Magic?" because we've beat that horse to death in previous threads, I'm asking for any of the specific differences between a Wizard and a Psion that puts the Wizard in a higher tier. I've only slightly dipped into DSP's psionic stuff (still haven't played it yet), and if I remember right the Psion has few powers than a Wizard does spells... Is that the only reason for the lower tier?

>> No.38018734

>>38018142
Aasimar(scion of humanity) Monk(Tetori)/Paladin(Hospitaler/WoHL)/Champion of Irori

Half-Elf Wizard (Either wood school or Spirit Whisperer)/Magaambyan Arcanist

Orc Warlord(bannerman)/Soulknife(warsoul)

Tiefling(Qlippothblooded) Oracle(Heavens, breaker curse)

I think thats a good four-man team.

>> No.38018798

Opinions of the Champion of Irori PrC?

>> No.38018846

>>38018798

It's actually a pretty good prestige class for what it is, unfortunately what it is isn't very good

>> No.38018932

>>38018846
>>38018798
ha, what is the best way to do it?
with pummeling strike, has it gotten any better?

>> No.38019061

>>38018142
Something like
Archivist
heaven's oracle
master summoner
aegis
Clown

>> No.38019072

>>38018932

Pummeling Style did make every unarmed combatant better. Before, I would recommend sohei -> champion so you could flurry with nodachi while wearing light armor or whatever

Hmm, hungry ghost 5/paladin 5/champion 10 might be an ok build, at the very least you can smite as a level 15 paladin against every enemy all day long

>> No.38019094

>>38019072
But Champion abilities tend to rely on unarmed strikes. Plus it scales you movement speed and AC bonus so that would be a shame to lose.

>> No.38019191

>>38019094

All of their abilities that rely on unarmed attacks suck

Their main use is stacking smite and monk flurry on a full BAB class and spending ki points for smite uses

>> No.38019212

>>38019072
>>38019094
I was looking at wearing light brawling armor
going paladin 2 at least, maxing str and cha, anyway to get ki off cha?
maybe dip moms+sacred mountain monk 2 for fuse styles, toughness, get dragon and pummeling

>> No.38019235

>>38019191
so would it be best to go Sensei then, since you don't get those things, but you can now use Wis for attack rolls, and can use your Performance to give it your old stuff to the rest of the party?

>> No.38019406

>>38019235

Sensei is a great archetype but only if you know how to build around its class features

Two amazing things sensei can do is cast true strike on an ally, and at later levels giving your whole party three standard actions

>> No.38019663

Question.
So our GM is making us fight too much devils/demons and I was wondering, if I make a brassknucle or claws made our demons/devil claws would that allow me to ignore their DR? If I'm not mistaken creatures ignore their own DR and that of their kind.

>> No.38019692

>>38019663
No rules for it. Magic tea party time.

>> No.38019723

>>38019692
>No rules for it
So knowing my GM that's a no, thanks.

>> No.38019754

>>38019723
why won't your DM allow it? I mean, if you just rip off one of thier arms and start shanking them with it, it would just make sense.

>> No.38019882

>>38019754
My Gm has kinda a homerule, if there's not rule for it and benefits the players is a no.

>> No.38019928

>>38019882
This kinda sounded bad, I mean benefits in the sense of "I'm straight up ignoring DR 10 just by crafting some shit", if the benefit were minor he would probably say yes.

>> No.38019935

>>38019663
If its just a bunch of devils and demons all day why not invest in a holy weapon? Actually in most regular campaigns holy weapon would probably be pretty good as an all purpose enchantment no?

>> No.38020158

>>38019935
Because there aren't good gods in this setting.

Well, they existed a long time ago, but are afk in the current campaign.

>> No.38020188

I'm making a chaotic neutral alchemist who's rebelling against The Establishment. How hard would it be to make spray paint so I can write messages for the underclass on the sides of buildings telling them to throw off their shackles of oppression?

>> No.38020394

>>38020188
So you are just a bomb throwing anarchist?

>> No.38020523

>>38020188
You could probably just take craft(Painting) and grab some brushes and a can of paint. Now i'm imagining Jet Set Radio with penny-farthing bicycles, a smock, and a set of brushes and a palette.

>>38020158
I suppose in this setting you're not allowed to play paladin or cleric either?

>> No.38020619

>>38020523
>I suppose in this setting you're not allowed to play paladin or cleric either?
No unless I pray to evil gods and the party is good.

But my character is a monk and I'm not thinking into multiclassing.

>> No.38020710

>>38020619
Maybe UMD a wand of align weapon. Its not intrinsically an aligned spell so it should be okay.

>> No.38021918

Hi, I have a question, there was a feat that allowed you to draw and storage equipment and weapons as a free action and hand sleight of hands and quick draw as requirement, do someone remember the name? I'm thinking in picking it for my Swift Hitter Ranger.

>> No.38022892

Sort of an idea I had for trying to balance the caster/melee problem: what if full casters (Lvl 9 spell access) classes advanced by the "slow", half-casters (Lvl 6 spell access) by the "medium" and non-casters (probably including Rangers and Palis) at the "fast" XP rules?

That, along with some mechanical changes (e.g. maybe bringing back something like Concentration checks) might help narrow the gap.

>> No.38023191

Where in Golarion would ooga booga half-elves come from? I want my character to have tattoos and a penchant for nonconsensual sex.

>> No.38023335

>>38023191
Most likely ooga-booga land (Mwangi). Elves have little villages all over the planet, and one country with only elves. Just have your half elf be the child of one of the Mwangi elf village elves.

>> No.38023383

>>38023191
What the fuck is an ooga booga elf?

>> No.38023503

>>38023383
It's an intellectual term for a nigger from a tribal culture, as contrasted by a nigger from "the hood".

>> No.38023781

>>38023503
What race has values that resonate most with Hood and Hip-Hop culture? Which race is the NWA of Golarion?

>> No.38024499

>>38021918
>Swich Hitter
When will they learn

>> No.38024625

So a friend of mine's going to be DMing a game soon and he's allowing homebrew classes. One of the other players has homebrewed an entire class.
Is there anything I should watch out for in the ability list? It doesn't have spellcasting, but it's got a lot of at-will abilities, and 3/4 BAB.

>> No.38024699

>>38023503

There are literally Wild Elves living in the Mwangi Expanse, aka bunga bunga jungle.

There are also Snow Elves living in the Arctic, and ultra-xenophobic Asian Elves in Tian Xia.

>> No.38024707

>>38024625
Kineticists aren't overpowered. they are the opposite, and they have at-wills to boot.

If you have a copy of the homebrew please share it and we'll see how it is.

>> No.38024732

>>38024499

What's wrong with Switch Hitting? When you have Quick Draw it makes it very doable.

>> No.38024785

>>38024732
>What's wrong with Switch Hitting?
It's a trap, you're wasting your feats and magic items in two different sets of weapons also you have to rise Str and Dex instead of just one.

>> No.38025248

>>38023383
Elf with the Negroid template applied

>> No.38025271

>>38024699
Oh...I'm conflicted. I either want to go full bunga bunga half-elf, or Snowy half-elf. Snow elves are my shameful fetish.

I should do more research, maybe ask the other players where they'll be from too.

>> No.38025523

>>38025271
Be ooga booga and use javelins as your primary weapon.

>> No.38026157

>>38025523
What's a good ooga booga weapon for close combat, though, when the time for javelins is over?

>> No.38026546

>>38026157
Macuahuitl if you can make it magic so it's not fragile.

>> No.38026781

You know, I've had this LAWFUL good thing happen to me before.
A GM I played with tried to argue that another player's Paladin would fall in the first session, because we'd agreed to help over throw an evil King. Seriously, this fucker was raising undead armies, trafficking with demons, buying and selling slaves, the works.
And the GM insisted that because the King and his nobles were 'legitimate authority', and so the Paladin was obliged to let them keep ruling, and even defend them.

>> No.38027274

>>38026781
That is a stupid DM and I assume from your use of the past-tense "played" you ran from that train wreck.

>> No.38027356

>>38026781
The only time I saw a paladin fall was when, after we were captured, sell as slaves in a coloseum for gladiatorial purposes, he decided to participate in a fight (it was only for those who wanted) against 20 unarmed slaves (outgame he did it to gain XP) and, even when the combat had to be to death, he tried to explain the GM that he was there to help the slaves, somehow...even after killing them all he insisted that he help them. Srly, picture the scene of a guy trying to explain that he killed 20 unarmed dudes to "help" them, and after you asked how that helped them he just said "well, it just did..."

Funny thing, even the chaotic neutral guy refused to participate in that kind of slaughter fest because it wasn't fair.

>> No.38027390

>>38026781
>Legitimate authority
See, LG doesn't mean he has to follow the Law if the Law isn't good/fair/etc.

I'm so tired of seen peope using LG wrong, almost as tired as seen CN being used as lulrandom.

>> No.38027570

>>38027390
Right. In fact, IIRC that exact point is even called out somewhere in the rules.

>> No.38027640

>>38027390
>LG doesn't mean he has to follow the Law if the Law isn't good/fair/etc

Isn't that the definition of NG though?
LG wouldnt say screw the law and punch peopl. They would find a way around it or try to prove that the law is invalid like Superman vs President Lex Luthor.

>> No.38027641

>>38026781
yep, it so often comes down to arguing interpretations of the alignment system, since there are only general guidelines which will be interpreted differently by each person.

>> No.38027721

>>38027640
if a king is not fufilling his duties to his people, he's not a fit ruler. Thus, overthrowing him to start something new becomes an option. That said, he really should find an heir to support or an opposing nation to aid in conquest; You can't simply throw the whole system into chaos, you need to provide a solution to the problem at hand, in this case the land needing a better ruler.

>> No.38027734

>>38016112
Keep looking, there are plenty of good games on roll20 if you keep an open mind, the only problem is that the gm/player base ratio is so skewed that you will get in to 1/10 games you apply for. The other option is to learn to GM, and you will have people literally lining up to play your game no matter how lazy it is.

Or you know, get some friends.

>> No.38028195

>>38016735
Aegis/warsoul/metaforge? I'd have to look it up when I get home but you might be able to snag the feats that artificially boost your class level and use Metaforge to level aegis and your initiator class

>> No.38028347

I am new to Pathfinder and I am confused about a few rules. Specifically what does it mean by +8/+3, which value do I use on the attack roll?

>> No.38028397

>>38010993
It's more like Sovyrian was a colony of a long forgotten space faring elf civilization that spread to Golorion.

>> No.38028423

>>38014313
Asmodeous, you are the contract keeper.

>> No.38028504

>>38028423

>> No.38028679

>>38028347
+8/+3 means when you take a full round action to make a full attack, you use both. One attack at +8, then another at +3.

>> No.38028739

>>38028679
Oh I see. That clears things up a lot. So if Flurry of Blows or another attack that normally hits twice does a full attack, would the character would hit four times?

>> No.38029129

>>38028739
A 10th level monk can flurry at 8/8/3/3 (instead of their 7/2 normal attack bonus), yes.

Also, they can ATTACK 4 times, not necessarily HIT.
It's important to use the right terminology.

>> No.38029182

>>38008520
Kaelyn the Dove in Mask of the Betrayer is forced from the service of Kelemvor for trying to tear down the Wall of the Faithless.

She fell from a LG Doomguide of Kelemvor to NG Cleric of Illmater.

>> No.38029277

>>38022892
It makes them worse yeah but the game still breaks when they do get the broken spells

>> No.38029340

>>38022892
Isn't that how the old D&D editions handled it?

>> No.38029650

Are monks really that shit in Pathfinder? I'm a new player and GM, pretty much started my experience with tabletop RPGs half a year ago from the position of master, and in my current group I have a catfolk monk.

It's level one for now, so maybe the balance issues haven't yet emerged, but for now he's the character for the most potential for damage, out of the team with warrior, wizard, rogue, cleric and druid.
Does the monk start lagging behind in the next parts of the game? For now his STR bonus means that for his flurry of hits he pretty much gets two assured hits every turn and each of them gets an additional 2 points of damage, which is enormous at Level 1

>> No.38029669

>>38028397

So the Elves of Kyonin are the colony of a colony? Seems fair. I'm just trying to figure out where the Elves are since I'm writing up a hardcore Elven Conqueror that's trying to inject some Warhammer into Pathfinder (specifically, turn the Elves from a race of self-centered cats to something unified) and ruling over a petty little plot of land with a metaphorical handful of Elves isn't the easy way to go about it.

Speaking of said Elven Conqueror, and I know I posted this in the last thread, but is there anything I can add, remove or alter to make this character more optimized? Beyond "keep them saves up" and "immunity is GOD" I have no idea what I'm doing: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=1120441

(I've been toying with the idea of making him a Fighter (Phalanx Warrior), giving him a +5 Tower Shield, and getting a Keen Fauchard he can one-hand like the one in the character image. Probably dumb, but it would give me 52-54 AC and a big damn addition to my Saving Throws.)

>> No.38029693

>>38029650
>Are monks really that shit in Pathfinder? I'm a new player and GM, pretty much started my experience with tabletop RPGs half a year ago from the position of master, and in my current group I have a catfolk monk.

The tricky thing with Monks is they always seem effective on paper, and from time to time appear competent, but begin to lag behind in very big ways once the good spells start coming out and gear's passed around.

>> No.38030821

>>38029650
At level 1, One hit from two-handed Barbarian using Power Attack will do more damage than Monk 2 hits. At the same cost of -2 to attack rolls.

But barbarian get +3 damage from Power Attack and another +2 or +3 from wielding weapon Two-handed.

Which means he do more damage than you while still being able to take Move Action normally.

>> No.38030894

What is the best way to travel to Absalom from my Kingdom in Kingmaker? The most direct way either pass non-French in civil war or Kyonin. Which means me and my flying mounted probably be shot down on sight.

>> No.38030930

>>38030894

Magic seems like the only real way to do it, or taking the long way to Kalsgard.

>> No.38030996

>>38030930
Can't he just travel along the river trade route?

>> No.38031074

>>38030996

Taking you between Galt and Kyonin in the process.

>> No.38031121

>>38031074
>>38031074
They wouldn't risk shooting arrow into each other territory right..?

Is the river not a neutral ground? Can Elves only sail the ship on west side of the river or something?

>> No.38031137

>>38031121

Elves would actually leave you alone and the River Compact (or whatever it's called) means you're safe while sailing down the river.

Get a big fat pleasure barge and sail your way to Absalom.

>> No.38031242

>>38029650

Monk is decent with optimization, but most people don't know how to optimzie monk at all

And of course, classes like barbarian are much, much better with less optimization

>> No.38031450

> Party Monk won't take Pummeling Style
I give up. Maybe they will rebuild once Unchained come out.

>> No.38031576

>>38031450

What is it that makes Pummeling Style so good?

>>38031242

How do you optimize a monk? Beyond multiclassing out?

>> No.38031590

>>38031576
Pummeling style = Helps get past DR since it combines all your attacks in one hit. Also if one hit crits, they all crit.
There's a second feat that allows you to full attack out of a charge, so you have mobility as a monk.

>> No.38031716

>>38031590

Ah, I was pondering because I'm the person playing >>38014952

I'll be doing Divine damage eventually so DR and Resistance won't be so much of an issue.

Any recommendations for feats/items for such a character? I'll admit it's a very odd monk build (Being a non-weapon ranged attacker)

>> No.38031761

>>38031576

Strength as your highest stat
Pummeling Style + Pummeling Charge
Horn of the Criosphinx
Ring of Ki Mastery
Ki Leech
Quicken-SLA True Strike
Ring of Ki Mastery

And of course yeah, multiclassing out

>> No.38031845

>>38018732
Wizards can change what abilities they have every day. That means they have more versatility.

>> No.38031901

>>38031761

You put the Ring of Ki Mastery twice.

>> No.38032520

Do archers want reduce person for the chance to hit, or enlarge person for the damage?

>> No.38032568

>>38032520

Gravity bow

>> No.38033104

>>38024785
You only need 1 feat for melee, and the best ranged option (bows, nigga!) use STR for damage already.

You could also go with something silly like 1 level dip into inspired swash with a class that gets DEX to damage with guns/crossbows. It's quite servicable.

>> No.38033153

>>38031716
The pounce light and the shared crits is still incredibly useful.

As for other build options, you can get quinggong and trade away all the useless BS for cool spell-likes (pretty good tips in this thread a bit back).

>> No.38033210

>>38033153

Yeah, that was my thoughts. It's also very fluffy as the GM is saying that the 'Wis stuff for monk is changed to Cha' also works for anything I sub in via a monk Archtype as it's still monk stuff.

>> No.38034414

>>38033210
Thats.....not that good a change. Running on Cha instead of Wis makes the monk even more MAD as you really don't want to be tanking those will saves.
Seriously, doing that gives them only INT as a potential dump stat and even then that lack of skill points will hurt.

>> No.38034529

>>38034414

Yeah but it's a racial archetype and one that is for a +Cha race rather than a +Wis race.

Also: The attack uses +Cha for damage, rather than +Str. So Str can become a dump stat.

>> No.38034560

Anyone here play Kingmaker?

What happen when you destroyed a house? Will you get 1 or 2 increasr in unrest?

>> No.38034635

>>38008520
>paladin fall for being non-lawful, rather than non-good?

I am somewhat sure the wording for falling has always been something like "knowingly commits an evil act".

Paladins falling outside of that is in the realm of some combination of being That Guy or having That DM.

Doing non-lawful things might get a paladin into shit with his order, the authorities, and his reputation in general, but shouldn't cause a loss of powers unless it outright shifts his alignment out of Lawful. Which, again, shouldn't happen by surprise unless That Guy/DM.

>> No.38034751

>>38034635
thay just one part of the sentence.
> A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the paladin's mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies).

So unlawful act can get him in trouble with his god.

>> No.38035692

>>38032520
If I'm not mistaken enlarge person does jack shit, because the moment the arrow leaves the bow it returns to it's normal size, what you want is >>38032568

>> No.38035712

>>38031242
>Monk is decent with optimization
I hope you mean Monk is still meh as fuck with the fullest of optimizations ever created by men, I mean, there's like a single build that makes monks meh as fuck, each other are still a shitfest.

>>38031761
Yeah, this one, this one is the only that makes monks be some acceptable shit.

>> No.38035753

>>38029129
This, everybody knows flurry of blows doesn't hit ever.

>> No.38035766

>>38029693
>The tricky thing with Monks is they always seem effective on paper
Really? to look effective on paper I need at least 25 point buy.

>> No.38035817

>>38029650
Core monk is shit, as shit as was in 3.5. If you can into hardcore optimization you can make him a one trick pony, but that's it, don't expect more from it.

It also needs pretty good stats, I remember my first monk ever who had 18,18,16,14,12,10, and still was way behind the fighter which's highest stat was a 16 and the next one was a 14.

>> No.38035824

>>38035712

There's actually 7 main monk variants that are decent

Plain monk as in >>38031761, hungry ghost monk, drunken master monk, sohei monk, zen archer monk, sensei monk, and dip for moms monk

Plain/Hungry Ghost/Drunken master are essentially the same though, just with different methods of ki recovery
Zen Archer and Sohei can be the same, but don't have to be
Sensei is a completely different beast
MoMS dip really isn't a monk anymore imo

>> No.38035843

>>38035824
>zen archer monk
I always ignore that because that isn't what I look for a monk, I put that in "archer builds" not "monk" builds.

>> No.38035851

>>38035843

My definition is "build with the majority of its levels in the monk class"

>> No.38035864

>>38026546
Seems neat. They're a third the cost of longswords but do the same shit with the same crit rate, so I could get two of them and still come out ahead, and statistically I probably won't shatter both of them before I can get a Magical as fuck one, right?

>> No.38036676

>>38034560
Not a damn thing. For as far as I can tell, you don't need houses at all except for pre-reqs.

>> No.38036737

>>38036676
This.
Our GM stopped GMing kingsmaker because we maxed the shit out of the town and barely has houses.

>> No.38038078

>>38014297
Seems like a expensive heal? Not sure how that helps.

>> No.38038146

>>38038078
200 GP isn't THAT much, and ability damage is a bitch to deal with at low levels or if you don't have a divine caster in the party.

>> No.38038182

>>38038146
I guess, but when you are level 12 its not usually a problem. restoration is a cheap cast then

>> No.38038345

>>38038078
Now that we are talking about your character again:

This is a chart of the AC needed at each level to give monsters a 10% miss chance against you. In other words, it is the point at which your AC actually starts doing something, and any AC lower than that value might as well be no AC at all.
The chart is based off the median attack roll modifier on the first melee attack for each challenge rating.
CR----AC for 10% Miss
1------6
2------7
3------9
4------10
5------13
6------14
7------16
8------17
9------19
10------20
11------23
12------24
13------25
14------27
15------28.5
16------30
17------33
18------35
19------36
20------35
21------37
22------41.5
23------39
24------40
25------43.5
Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hA61fDAxblBxbRXe236ZUmobf38hkB9d_foo3dEi7N4/pub

Getting the +1s to your ac via magic are nice, but you should probably not pay for the +2. They aren't helping much, especially at level 12

>> No.38038527

Can I make Salve without knowing the magic since it's a wondrous item?

Seems weird how I can make Salve of Second Chance without knowing Reincanetion.

>> No.38038537

>>38038345
I tend to disagree. The +2 from the +1 is really cheap, and that is just the median of the first attack bonus. so at level 12 the median monster's first attack is +22, but the second will be around +17, and the third will be around +12. If I pounce something swole and don't kill it, it will get a full attack back on me. DR6 helps a bit but I want to not take three full swings to the face If i can help it.

>> No.38038581

>>38038527
Yes, it adds +5 to the DC of the spellcraft/craft/profession check to create the item if you don't know the spell in question..

>> No.38038667

>>38038581
well I guess the salve is using material to mimic the spell not spell activation like potion.

Hell, it's even better than the spell because it's only cost 800 to craft (while the spell component is 1000) and you can roll twice once a month.

Time for some suicide reincarnation...

>> No.38038717

>>38038667
Speaking of reincarnation: Is there a way to permanently change your body?

>> No.38038733

>>38038717
The spell Reincarnation?

>> No.38038760

>>38038733
One that doesn't involve two permanent negative levels and that you can control.

>> No.38038815

>>38038717
polymorph and permancy?

>> No.38038852

>>38038815
Not on the list.

>> No.38038889

>>38038852
you can ask the gm, it does say to use gm discretion for other spells

>> No.38038904

>>38038889
well yea, you can always do that. I'm thinking of more "how can you use the rules to get a new body?"

>> No.38038917

>>38038904
Reincarnation.
Seriously.

>> No.38038941

>>38038917
Is that it?

>> No.38038954

Is there any way to apply weapon properties (like Frost, Vorpal, Spell storing, Thundering, etc.) to natural attacks like claws? Any way other than journeying to the top of Mt. Death Zone to get some wizard to cast Wish and hoping the DM doesn't make it backfire and kill you instantly.

>> No.38038960

>>38038941
Yup.

>> No.38038987

>>38038954
amulet of mighty fists

>> No.38038990

>>38035692

Why did the mention of Gravity Bow make me think of a Composite Bow using Androffan technology that is literally a gravity bow.

>> No.38039005

>>38038954
Amulet of Mighty Fists. It only goes up to +5 effective bonus, but you don't need it to have +1 to apply other effects and you can always get permanencied Greater Magic Fang to go with it.

>> No.38039036

>>38038717
Daily Magic Jar + Extend Spell?

>> No.38039047

Are Scarabs of Protection generally a good investment? Or do they become useless at higher levels.

>> No.38039058

>>38038987
>>38039005
thank you based anons

>> No.38039089

>>38039047
I don't think stopping energy drain and death effects ever becomes useless. Pretty expensive considering it has limited charges, though.

>> No.38039120

>>38039047

Spell Resistance 20 is never something to sneeze at, and the other effects it will flat out protect you from are often considered fates worse than death.

I'd buy two.

>> No.38039285

>>38039120
except when your team mates want to buff you

>> No.38039337

>>38039285
what are some decent buffs the caster can put on you at level 8+?

>> No.38039437

>>38039285

>Buffs
>Useful after level 10

>> No.38039472

Rate my Warpriest, /pfg/.

>> No.38039618

>>38039472
im assuming you are going master of many styles+sacred mountain monk 2
then back to warpriest at level 4
this is a basic how to
BAB(0)Flurry(as level 1 monk)1-Warpriest- Pummeling Style, B:Improved unarmed strike, Aura, blessings (minor), Orisons, wis to ac
BAB(0)Flurry(as level 1 monk)2-Master of Many Styles+Sacred Mountain- Pummeling Charge, B: Stunning Fist, wis to ac
BAB(+1)Flurry(as level 2 monk)3-Master of Many Styles+Sacred Mountain- B:Toughness, Dragon Style, B:Dragon Ferocity, +1 Nat Armor saves(+3,+3,+3)
BAB(+2)Flurry(as level 3 monk)4-Warpriest(2)- Fervor 1d6
BAB(+3)Flurry(as level 4 monk)5-Warpriest(3)- Power Attack, Blessed Fortitude (Su)

>> No.38039696

>>38038345
That source links to a necromancer guide.
You sure you got the right thing?

>> No.38039726

>>38039618

yep, that's my build exactly. I felt bad playing a cookie cutter, but when i looked at all the feats avaliable there wasn't much else that seemed viable. Grapple and Archon style seem tempting, but i'm betting they're traps.

I do plan on incorporating the hammer more into my build. Since i'm a dwarf, bounding hammer just seems too much fun. combine that with crusader's flurry and yeah i'm less optimal, but i feel it fits the fluff of my character's backstory as a torag worshipper better.

I figure that by second level my bread and butter will be charge+pummeling flurry, with the 1d8 warhammer as backup when i need a move action that turn, or need to do 1d8 damage ranged and pop a divine favor to mitigate the penalty.

>> No.38039736

>>38039618
>>38039472
also, get quicken blessing for you level 13 feat for your law major blessing, swift action summoning is fun
on the sheet i didnt see bonus traits, if you can, get fate's favored to boost your luck bonuses, as this applies to divine favor, your go to buff when you get fervor

>> No.38039778

>>38039736

Oh yeah, seems i organized it wrong. I had all my traits under my statblock in the Feats and Features box on the first page, but i placed them all behind "Racial Traits:". I'll go fix that now.

>> No.38039794

>>38039618
Don't you need BaB+6 with pummling style? and BaB+12 with pummeling charge?

>> No.38039815

>>38039794

MoMS know best.

>At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat. He does not have to meet the prerequisites of that feat, except the Elemental Fist feat.
>Alternatively, a master of many styles may choose a feat in that style’s feat path (such as Earth Child Topple) as one of these bonus feats if he already has the appropriate style feat (such as Earth Child Style). The master of many styles does not need to meet any other prerequisite of the feat in the style’s feat path.

Also, Pummeling style says "blah blah blah, OR Flurry of Blows"

>> No.38039823

>>38039794
monks dont
and master of many styles lets you bypass requirements
that is why it is a great dip

>> No.38039844

>>38039815
>>38039823
Yeah, but his first level is warpriest and he picked pummeling style with his 1st level feat, how?

>> No.38039847

>>38039778
ah, i see it now
reactionary and fate's favored
pretty good, would be my first two choices too
grab power attack at level 5 and have fun

>> No.38039869

>>38039844
sacred fist lets you count as a monk for feats
as it has flurry

>> No.38039910

>>38039869
I think I starting to understand you need Unarmed Strike and one of these three (bab +6, brawler's flurry, flurry of blows)...sadly my GM, and therefore me, thought you need unarmed strike, BaB+6 and either brawler's flurry or flurry of blows.

>> No.38039911

>>38039869

Sacred Fist doesn't count as monk

>>38039844

Pummeling Style's requirements are

Improved Unarmed Strike

AND

One of the following: base attack bonus +6, brawler's flurry class feature, or flurry of blows class feature.

Sacred Fist has flurry of blows and improved unarmed strike

>> No.38039924

>>38039910
god no
that would be fucking terrible
seriously update your gm, and learn how sentence structure works

>> No.38039942

>>38039911
i meant in that it has flurry for prereqs

>> No.38039948

>>38039924
>and learn how sentence structure works
We are used to "martials can't get nice things" so we always assume the worst.

>> No.38039963

>>38039948
well
there is 2 ways to play monk now, monk dip and go pummeling strike, and zen archer
or go PoW

>> No.38040083

>tfw I like panther style and snake style to imitate Karmic strike from 3.5

>> No.38040108

Bump limit reached here -- When's a good time to make a new thread?

Also can someone explain high level slapfighting to me? What is my AC supposed to look like so I don't get bitch slapped by a dragon at higher levels?

Y'know, assuming the dragon wanted to full round attack me instead of roasting my ass alive, casting spells, etc

>> No.38040183

>>38040108
at high levels, ac stops mattering, non ac defenses matter more
blur, ring of blinking, etc
there is a few ways

>> No.38040334

>>38040108
Dude, I had a 15th level dude with 46 AC and still got hit all the fucking time, at certain level AC means shit.

>> No.38040388

>>38040183

Non AC defenses kind of stop mattering at high levels too, as you should have enough HP/healing potential to tank a full-round attack from damn near anything.

The only thing you should concern yourself with is buying items that will make you immune to the nasty spells a creature can fling at you; fear, compulsion/curses, immobilization, those things.

The worst a Balor can fling at you is 140 damage, that's absolutely nothing in the scheme of things and should especially be nothing when you consider this assumes he's purely targeting one person and a fight should only last 2-3 rounds.

My opinion? don't invest in a Ring of Blinking or a Cloak of Displacement, invest in a Cloak of Resistance +5 and Ring of Freedom of Movement.

>> No.38040444

>>38040183
Is there simply not enough armor to pile on to avoid being dragon'd?

I realize Blur/blinking/etc is the better choice, but is it possible to have AC that high?

Ring of blink = 50% Miss chance. To get a 50% Miss chance on say, an Ancient Red Dragon(CR18)

Melee bite +35 (4d6+21/19–20), 2 claws +35 (2d8+14), 2 wings +33 (2d6+7), tail slap +33 (2d8+21)

+35, +30, +28 (-5 for secondary attacks, IIRC)

Somewhere around 45 AC just for a 50/50 shot. Is that even possible to get?

12 Dex: +1 AC
Fullplate +5 - +14AC
+5 Tower Shield: +9AC
+5 Amulet of Natural Armor +5

That's only 39 AC through expensive items + Shield use.

>>38040334
How'd you get 46 AC?

Basically I'm trying to justify the Unarmored Armor line of feats for my GM.

>> No.38040460

>>38040444

the best way to avoid being dragon'd is to not antagonize a dragon.

>> No.38040572

>>38040444
>How'd you get 46 AC?
Monk/Psywar

+6 from Dex
+6 from Wis
+6 from Wis again thanks to Saint Template
+5 from Natural Armor
+5 from armor enhancement
+5 from Monk's AC
43 AC
And I think I had something else

>> No.38040582

>>38040444

Consider that most high-level monsters have either True Seeing or Blind Fight, which either eliminates that Displacement/Blur percentage entirely or bumps it down to 20%.

The best thing you can possibly do is crank up your HP and make sure you're immune to anything short of direct damage.

Remember: The enemy can hit you for 150+ damage, but you've got 4 other buddies doing the same to it.

>> No.38040606

>>38040444
+3 from dex with mithril full plate, then up to +5 deflection bonus is already AC 46 on top of the things you mentioned(and if you're a paladin using smite, you can potentially get higher deflection bonus against the target of your smite). And I'm sure you can get some more misc bonuses if you really try. Combat expertise is another +4 if you're fighting defensively, etc. So yes, it's POSSIBLE to get AC high enough to matter even at high levels. It just requires a ton of investment.

>> No.38040619

>>38040572
I thought you couldn't get Source to Stat twice?
>>38040582
Blinghtfight/True seeing doesn't work against Blinking cause you're half ethereal.

>> No.38040630

>>38040572
Probably deflection or some shit, I got my sheet somewhere.

>> No.38040636

>>38040619
True seeing makes the miss chance 20% instead of 50%.

>> No.38040679

>>38040619
>>38040636

Point is, Blink is a waste if you're anything but the "hit me Elmo" tank of the group.

>> No.38040738

>>38040619
>I thought you couldn't get Source to Stat twice?
Depends the kind of bonus, saint's is insight, monk's is unnamed, so technically you can stack both, if I'm not mistaken.

>> No.38040794

>>38040738
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=385?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#19247
>Modifiers from ability scores aren't actually bonuses, strictly speaking. If they are, they're untyped bonuses—which means they stack with all other bonuses except themselves. Thus, if you have multiple things that say "Add your Dex modifier to this roll," you only get to add your Dex modifier once.

Can True-seeing get past Mirror Image?

>> No.38041756

>>38010657
What should i do for high level defences? Ring of freedom?

>> No.38042006

>>38041756
scry, fly, save or die

He who strikes first wins

>> No.38042118

>>38040794
james jacobs doesnt understand different bonuses then
anyone with sane knowledge of the system would allow it

>> No.38042204

>>38042118
I'd have to disagree. How many wis to ac could you stack? Or Dex to hit? It'd get insane

>> No.38042462

>>38042204
because otherwise wis to ac is shitty
by RAW, they stack, since they are from different sources,

>> No.38042717

>>38042462
Considering the errata is RAW, no, they don't.

But every DM is well within their rights to (reasonably so) say "That's a fucking stupid rule, and I choose to ignore it."

>>
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