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To start the discussion, what are your rules for non-adult characters? Older characters?

Let's hear your alternatives to the shitty no fun allowed system in place.

>> No.37840650

>inb4 lolis

>> No.37840764

So for some ungodly reason, my DM decided on a 36 point buy game

I have no idea what the fuck he's planning, and I'm scared.

So, help me make a Gunslinger /tg/, starting at level 1

>> No.37840778

Can you use imp unarmed strike with a 1h weapon? for example, a sacred fist with a warhammer? do i have to sheathe the hammer before i can flurry with unarmed strike?

>> No.37841249

I'm building a caster who will eventually be taking Spell Perfection (Fireball) down the line, for wonderful Quickened Sickening Fireballs cast out of 5th level slots. I'm considering taking Spell Focus (Evocation) and perhaps even Great Spell Focus (Evocation) to pump up the DC on it, but I wouldn't want to sink in two extra feats just for one spell.

What are some other Evocation spells on the Sorcerer/Wizard list that that would be useful enough to justify taking Spell Focus? I thought I'd find some without much trouble, and then I realized that a bunch of the good spells are actually Conjuration.

>> No.37841277

Don't be a bitch and make a paladin instead, for stats go in order 16, 12, 14, 10, 12, 18 (add race modifiers after) get a melee weapon and a large shield. Get a light crossbow for backup. Take warrior of the holy light archetype and at 5th level choose weapon imbue. Focus on upping armor class and saves as high as possible. GM cannot stop you with nonsense and has to dedicate to it. You will at least be the last character alive.

>> No.37841384

Sadly we already have a guy that's using almost that exact build, else I'd do it too. Any other cool recommendations thought?

>> No.37841424

How do I effectively pitch Iron Gods to players without spoiling everything cool that they'll discover? Beyond the Player's Guide stuff, what should I say or show them?

>> No.37841467

No. As long as you have a hand free or at least one monk weapon, you can flurry with that hand/weapon. You can't flurry with non monk weapons.

Also, Ia think you can you flurry with your feet?

>> No.37841548


But sacred fist has a different wording for its unarmed strike. it omits
>"A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes."

I need to know if i can attack and flurry with just my left hand while i hold a warhammer in the right. it's mostly for fluff reasons that i even have the warhammer.

>> No.37841937

Scarred witch doctor

>> No.37841949

Got one of those as well

>> No.37842000


>> No.37842007

Hello /pfg/ I am going to build a chelish noble scion. I intended to take the Cheliax version of the Noble Scion feat, House Jeggare to be precise, along side the rich parents trait. I'm not quit sure what base class to take however. The idea however is a young chelish noble girl who lets her cohort (who I will probably make a Hellknight) do most of the fighting, also I thought her branch of the family having a pact with Mammon might be interesting. So yeah can you spare some help for me?

>> No.37842017

What material is available? Because you could go with some PoW stuff to make everyone near you even more durable, just to ensure everyone stays alive.
Or a vitalist, for a more healy version of the same idea.

>> No.37842018

Orc invulnerable barbarian. Dump cha, go str dex con wiz int

>> No.37842080

I was wondering what you guys thought about the crimson assassins and being lawful evil. I have been looking to use the sawtooths at dual wield and this class is based on those exact things. The class seems interesting and if I can play it it would be my first time playing a lawful evil as opposed to lawful good or neutral good. The lawful evil sounds almost harder to play than murder hobo good; you have a code, you don't have problems with killing to advance yourself(everyone does this anyways), and you operate within the law; just seems silly to ban all evil if it's because some players are lolz randumb pillage

>> No.37842090

Well, first off don't take Rich Parents as it is horrible.
Also, what material do you have because a qt Harbinger (focus on Cursed Razor for the demonic pact stuff) with a Warder bodyguard would be a neat as hell dynamic duo.

>> No.37842104

>tfw party so big all the roles are filled and you have no idea what to make

>> No.37842112


>> No.37842119

Only paizo stuff allowed sadly. And I was only going to take Rich Parents for fluff, I know that it isn't that great.

>> No.37842144

Also, her cohort should also be qt.
Just because.

>> No.37842203

I actually intended to make the bodyguard a big scary mute Tiefling who has a real soft spot for his little lady.

>> No.37842214

Well, bard is never a good way to go to aid with Leadership, being Cha based and good support class anyway. Will also mesh well with the social aspect of mobility and get you all the girls....and guys if you want. AT THE SAME TIME!!

>> No.37842220


This Anon has it right, but I would multiclass once in a class that gives reflex saves and abilities that complement your paladin.

>So, help me make a Gunslinger /tg/, starting at level 1

Class: Gunslinger (Buccaneer from Advanced race)

Str: 16
Dex: 13
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 13
Cha: 16

(Assuming unlimited budget, mundane items only)
Weapon: Your start gun + Bastard sword + longsword + shield
Armor: Anything light
Feat: Combat Expertise + Toughness

Skills: Social + Mobility

Strategy: Melee it up. If facing a foe with strong AC but no weak touch AC, get your pistol out.

Upon level up, dabble pallydan for saves or bard for spells/skills. In both cases, go only two levels in. Make sure your bard's 2nd level ability doesn't render a skill you have obsolete.

Sing pirate songs or oratory insults/pirate slang. Get melee feats. Keep gun for enemies you cannot miss with (Dragon, Knight...)

>> No.37842222


All classes from any Paizo material is fair game.

>> No.37842225

.....or HER little lady?

I'll stop pushing this now.

>> No.37842231

Bard sucks.

>> No.37842232

(Also, racial +2 Str)

>> No.37842248

God damn it, what is with all these GMs not allowing 3rd party stuff? Grab Spheres of Magic, Psionics and Path of War and you basically never have to look at Paizo classes again (with the possible exceptions of Paladin and Alchemist)

>> No.37842258

How is the chelish diva archetype? As a cheliax archtype it might fit.
As much as I like tough girls protecting cute girls and the resulting sexual tension, I reall want him to be male so I can name him Mannfred because I like the name.

>> No.37842262

In what way does one of the most versatile classes that is good without being broken 'suck'?

>> No.37842315


I assume you also have the Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter traits to lower the cost of metamagic.

Burning Arc can be nice, a sort of poor man's chain lightning and not too bad for a 2nd level spell. Other evocation spells... yeah, no. Fireball is the best of the bunch, and even that depends on Dazing.

>> No.37842316

Anything you can do, someone else is already doing it better.

>> No.37842324

Ehh, assuming you mean the 'Diva' archetype, I just skimmed it and it seems to trade out a lot of widely useful stuff for a load of not as good and highly situational stuff, so.....

Also, fair enough. I can't argue with Mannfred, he sounds like a cool guy already.

>> No.37842351


Don't go Gunslinger. Go Savage Technologist Barbarian.

>> No.37842352

Well normal bard it is then? And yeah Mannfred is going to be a cool guy.

>> No.37842355

So you're basically making a human version of count Varian and Radovan?

>> No.37842358

All of them at the same time? The Bard was never best at anything, but he is always good at SOMETHING appropriate for the situation.

>> No.37842388

Court Bard could be good, though less reliable but it does fit the theme you are going with. It does focus more on debuffing rather than buffing though, so keep that in mind.

>> No.37842392

...And here I thought I was being creative.

>> No.37842411

As we have all learned; no concept is original. Whatever you have thought of has been done somewhere else before.
The real trick is to take that tried old concept and make it interesting and fun to play.

>> No.37842420

Ah that sounds just perfect. Almost exactly what I was looking for.
I will make it fun. At least I hope.

>> No.37842539

>I will make it fun
Oh, you'll have fun. If you don't you'll be losing a kneecap.

>> No.37842554

Yes, sir!

>> No.37842557

Magical Lineage yes, Wayang Spellhunter, no. It's a regional trait, and my character isn't from that region. I took Reactionary instead, which has stacked nicely with Improved Initiative and been generally nice to have.

Anyway, it's a shame that there aren't many worthwhile Evocation spells. I looked over the whole list of them and I only saw a couple others that I'd be particularly glad to have a boosted DC on. Well, considering that, I'm in the market for a couple other good feats for a sorcerer. Since I'm already stacking up on a few metamagic feats to qualify for Spell Perfection, I was sort of considering taking Spontaneous Metafocus a couple times, so that could be an option. Aside from that... Additional Traits to get a couple more useful traits I guess, or I could pick up Spell Focus (Conjuration) instead and follow up with Augment Summoning.

Any other ideas for good sorcerer feats?

>> No.37842698

Improved familiar.

>> No.37842872

In a way. Varian is also a Jeggare, but he's a half elf and about to hit his middle age. Radovan is his rogue/monk bodyguard. Varian is a sorcerer and quite wealthy (being a Chelish count) and quite stuck up when he's around people who aren't Radovan.

It's not bad to build off of a concept that someone else has already used, and Varian-Radovan are my favourite characters from the Pathfinder novels. If you can make it work, go for it.

>> No.37842921

>To start the discussion, what are your rules for non-adult characters?
I do absolutely nothing mechanically, and I won't try to fuck the player over roleplay wise.
>Older characters?
I do absolutely nothing mechanically, and I won't try to fuck the player over roleplay wise.

>> No.37843038


I started a level 1 campaign not long ago and one of my players insisted on making an edgelord lone wolf range rambo who spent sixty years in the woods. He didn't put a single point into knowledge nature. 60 years in the woods with 0 experience.

He immediately caught dysentery from drinking contaminated water and got all pissy and wanted to reroll his character because his special snowflake character drank clearly dirty water and he didn't like him being vulnerable like that.

>> No.37843081

That's a good way of figuring. For my campaign I'm thinking, if people are really wanting to play old/young characters we'll talk through it first, but I had in mind: for each age class you go up, physical stats go down by one, mental stats go up by one. For younger characters, just reduce them by one size class where appropriate, otherwise don't bother changing things.

I've seen people who feel that playing anyhting other than a character in their prime of adulthood should be severely penalized.

>> No.37843197

I like playing characters a little over the hill, in all honesty.

>> No.37843387

>Player says he's gonna make a Paladin
>"Is he going to be a tortured soul on the path of redemption?" One asked
>Nay! Said the player
>"Is he going to be a cleave and smite determinator?" Another asked
>Nu uh! Said the player
>"Is he going to be a stick up the ass arbiter of the law?" The last person cried
>NO! The player declared
>"So what is he going to be?!" The three asked

>He's going to be the classic "bright-eyed comely youth with a sword, vaguely empty head and a heart full of good intentions and wanderlust!"

I'm going to fucking love this character.

>> No.37843500

That's my favorite kind of paladin. Starry-eyed and well-meaning.

It makes them even better when they realize being the hammer of the good and just means they need to serious the fuck up when the time is right.

>> No.37843612

Any [Force] spell is decent; Toppling is one of the best metamagics ever - and that includes DMM: Persist.

I recommend Improved Familiar for a (Sage) Mauler Inevitable.

>> No.37844004

Yeah, actually, Toppling Spell is already on my feat list- it makes Magic Missile worth taking in my mind, and I'm sure there will be some other spells I could use with it later.

As for Improved Familiar, I don't actually have a familiar because I'm not using one of the bloodlines that grants one inb4 why the fuck aren't you dumbass. However, I actually kind of made a decision on my own; I think I will go with Spell Focus (Conjuration) and then later on Augment Summoning. I guess I could take the new feats for gaining a familiar, but I'll probably be doing that at later levels if ever.

The bloodline I AM using is Deep Earth, but just a while ago I realized I could use Bedrock instead which is part of why I decided to go with the summoning feats (Bedrock Arcana = summons have DR/Adamantine). A bunch of other useful spells also being Conjuration is an added plus. But it brings up another question for me. Which Summon Monster spells should I take? It kind of feels like taking all of them be wasting some spells known, so I was thinking maybe I'd skip some of them, although I don't know which ones those would be.

>> No.37844346

36 point buy?

Go Synthesist: 7, 8, 8, 18, 18, 16.

>> No.37844377

I recommend
but I'm not very experienced in this sort of stuff.

>16 CHA
At least put it in INT.

>> No.37844393


8 con? the gm will go out of his way to catch the summoner when they're not fused.

>> No.37844407


The absolute best is when they're serious, dashing and brave when shit gets real, but otherwise they have a simple, almost naive outlook on life and morality.

especially when some attractive young lass grows enamored with his perky paladin butt and starts putting the moves on him.

Cute awkward wooing is best wooing.

>> No.37844433

Doesn't always work out so well.
My naive, youthful paladin fell in love with a travelling bard.

She turned out to be the BBNG.

>> No.37844456

>Not being elf/half-elf/not!warforged/Tiefling 12
>Not casting Summon Eidolon/Dimension Door
>Not posting a watch
But I agree; my favorite tactic is to have the Summoner's CON higher than the Eidolon's.

>> No.37844596


Ah; right. For some reason I was thinking summoners were int casters.

I was assuming you get around sleeping, as mentioned.

But I suppose a decent CON doesn't hurt your HP.

How about 7,7,14,14,18,18?

>> No.37844960


higher con just gives the eidolon more temporary hitpoints.

>> No.37845036

You don't like having more hitpoints as a frontliner?

You get to choose which damage goes to you and which goes to your eidolon, so when the eidolon goes down, odds are you'll have like 10 HP or less remaining.

>> No.37845170

>You don't like having more hitpoints as a frontliner?

i was advocating putting points in con.

>You get to choose which damage goes to you and which goes to your eidolon, so when the eidolon goes down, odds are you'll have like 10 HP or less remaining.

Yep, you're a power ranger who gets their shit wrecked at that point.

>> No.37845323

Enjoy having a miserable 16 str (or 14 if you want to pounce) with a 36 point buy

>> No.37845486

>What is ability increase, multiple natural attacks, improved damage, improved natural attack feat, large/huge size.
I'll be fine, thanks.

>> No.37845521

Actually, when you activate your Eidolon, your hit points are recalculated with its CON score. If you have a higher CON than it, you regain health when your Eidolon disperses - enough to get out of the negatives and escape.

>> No.37845587

Um. No? You add your eidolon's HP to your own HP as temporary bonus hp & any time you take damage you get to choose whether it comes from your HP or the Bonus.

This means if you're getting 6/lv from summoner, and 6/lv from eidolon, when fused, you add them together, for a total of 12hp/lv.

You can come out of the fusion with 1hp remaining if you like; you might want to give yourself more than that so you can try to GTFO better; but you'd be stupid to bun through all your eidolon HP first, leaving your own at full.

>> No.37846589

just say "Conan vs War of the Worlds"

or have them watch this movie No i can't find the full thing. sorry

>> No.37846681


>> No.37847100

So I'm making a Pistolero and I'm really worried about the viability of something I'm trying in regards to Two Weapon Fighting as a gunslinger is the fact that I'm unsure how reloading as a free action actually works with it.

The books say you need a free hand to reload your weapon, but if you've managed to reduce your reloading time to a "free" action while dual wielding, how does that work?

>> No.37847252

So my DM has made the mistake of allowing me to create a few spells that I homebrew myself, since my necromancer is starting to get up there in levels.

I have some spells obviously, but I'm curious if anyone here has any fun spells they've created. I do a lot of sneaking and debuffing, if that gives you any ideas.

Here's a few I've taken from other sources:
L1 - Lock Gaze - You compel the target to only look at you for the duration of the spell.

L5 - Skinner's Box - Target is sickened when seeing a trigger

L5 - Cigotuvi’s Embrace - turns corpses into temporary AC & SH.
The corpses slowly slough off over time & when the player is hit or blocks an attack.

L6 - Unwilling Shield - Subject shares wounds you receive.

L1 - Negative Reaction - Targeted creature may not positively influence anyone.

>> No.37847383


those are all really lame.

>> No.37847421

Then outdo me then, show me what a not "really lame" spell is, man.
I didn't want to just show up with a bunch of extremely overpowered spells.

>> No.37847457


>I didn't want to just show up with a bunch of extremely overpowered spells.

So you spoilering "mistake" was just a lame attempt at being quirky?

Go ask reddit.

>> No.37847553

Look at 3.X and 3pp spells.

>> No.37847653

My group is currently lvl 12. We're introducing a couple of new players. One wants to be a "whip cleric" and the other is going Fighter and prestige classing into Hellknight Commander.

They're replacing an archery focused Ranger, and a more experienced Cleric. I am playing a Zen Archer, and my buddy is playing a Witch. We both know how to actually play the game and avoid trap options, judging by what the new guys like, they don't.

I think they're going to die, a lot.

>> No.37847709


>zen archer

>we both know how to play

>> No.37847743

Zen Archer is a perfectly legitimate archetype if you want to take the easier path to making a half-decent archer Monk.

The Sohei stuff is more convoluted and doesn't just hand you everything you need.

>> No.37847780


Just saying, anyone who plays a monk can't talk down to new players.

>> No.37847815

At least he can optimize a monk well enough to bump him up to T4.

>> No.37847835

Zen Archer removes the monks MADness, and inability to flurry regularly. I can focus on one stat for my offense and defense, have great saves, and consistently deal damage.

You don't know shit.

>> No.37847840


every monk archetype is tier 4. wow, you bested a commoner. gg.

>> No.37847861


i bet it's endless entertainment to say "i shoot my bow" as well.

>> No.37847880

I played a Zen Archer once, it was pretty fun. Unless you're one of those fags who thinks anyone who playing anything but T1 classes are foolish plebs, you'd see it doesn't really matter as long as you're having fun.

And, unlike the un-archetyped and not-splatbook heavy Monk, the Zen Archer is quite good at combat stuff, with some passable low-level out-of-combat utility (more if you add Quingong).

Is Monk a fantastic class? No. Is it unplayable, especially considering some of the stronger archetypes available? Absolutely not.

>> No.37847956

If I'd said I was playing a core monk, he'd have a point. But he's the first person I've seen to think the Zen Archer isn't a good martial option.

>> No.37847963

Commoner is Tier 6, with normal Monk.
Fighter is Tier 5.

Some Monk Archetypes are Tier 5.

>> No.37847990


moms might be tier 5 only because war priest makes it useful.

>> No.37848057

My point is:

Baseline Monk is Tier 6.
Some monk arhetype combinations are still T6.
Some are T5.
And a couple are T4.

Zen archer is one of the better Monk Archetypes.

>> No.37848127


It's the only good one, and it's hardly a monk.

>> No.37848265

Sohei can be build petty good.

And yes; they're hardly "Monks".

If someone wants to play a monk in one of my games, I typically suggest they use ranger, druid, oracle, or magus; depending on their tastes. I happily give the ranger an unarmed combat style if desired, and I make most of the eastern weapons martial rather than arbitrarily exotic.

BAM. Done.

>> No.37848382

What's the best combat choice for an Investigator? Standard DEX build with rapier/cane sword? Is there a way to make ranged combat viable for them?

>> No.37848578

Should I make a point buy system base on class tier?

tier 1 get 10-15 point buy while tier 5 get 25-30?

That would help at all?

>> No.37848606

Im a level 6 Human Juju Oracle.
All I wanna do is raise undead.
What can I do to raise undead better?

my feats:
>undead master
>improved channel
>spell specialization

>> No.37848651

Not really; stats aren't the problem. Its that the shitty tiers dont have the same kinds of options as the good tiers.

>> No.37848680

Because you can already use any part of yourself as unarmed strike. So that part is redundant.

Druid kung-fu dinosaur headbutting is a thing.

>> No.37848736

I'll go ahead and say that Pummeling charge alone bumps the unarmed monk up a tier (well, not up from t4, obviously). It fixes some of their most glaring issues: the lack of mobility, DR fucking them over, shitty crit chance on unarmed strikes... all that's gone, and they can get it pretty soon too.

>> No.37848790

You still need a free hand. Most obvious solutions are having a third appendage, or picking up the gun twirling feat (which lets you resheat as free, enabling to resheat a weapon while reloading).

>> No.37848798

Inspired Shortbow with Ranged Study feat. It will take you like 7 level before you can get it online though.

Other than that... TWF Rapier with Effortless Lace or Strength-base Natural Weapon is a good choice.

>> No.37848907

Yep. Pummeling charge would take a stock monk out of T6 and into T5.

Not sure if it would meet the prereqs to be in T4 though.

>> No.37848940

Ive always had an idea for an Alchemist who was Jekyll/Hyde in reverse: a small, timid man who creates an elixir that turns him into some fusion of FMA's Armstrong and He-Man. Is this possible as an Alchemist?

>> No.37848966

That's regular Jekyll/Hide

>> No.37848987

I don't think it would go up to T4. Monk still doesn't have enough utility.

>> No.37849008

I guess natural weapons would come from taking Mutagen or something similar.

I looked over the Steel Hound archetype, since I like the idea of a ranged investigator, but it seems like a really poor idea that won't really hold its own in a fight.

>> No.37849051

Well, I neat more in terms of attitude. Jekyll was a nice guy, Hyde was a monster. This would be the opposite : an amoral self-centered brainiac who becomes a guilless, bombastic tower of masculinity.

>> No.37849112

Hate to tell you this, but some of those are already spells. Whatever source you took them from wasn't too original


Unwilling Shield sounds familiar to me too, but I'm not positive if it already exists or not. In any case, I've done work on inventing new spells too, so I'll share a few too.

Frigid Downpour (7th) - Creates a storm of cold water that deals cold damage every round and staggers. Wide radius.
Force Bomb (7th) - Basically a sticky bomb that blows up a round after casting for force damage. If you spend a minute casting it, you get a stronger version that does an effective job of taking the side out of a building.

Charon's Blade (4th) - Shitty spell that makes a weapon potentially kill someone on a nat 20. I remember not liking it when I made it.
Death Burst (5th) - 3 damage/caster level to target, 1/caster level to those within 20 ft, negative energy.

Sky Crash (5th) - Turns the air above someone's head into rocks that promptly fall, dealing damage and knocking the target prone. If the target is flying, they also fall to the ground.

I had a few others done, but then Paizo went and made actual versions of those spells. I also have a handful of ideas for spells that I haven't had a chance to actually design yet.

>> No.37849113

T4 doesn't require any utility, it requires you to be one of the best at your role, while still being a one-trick pony, or to have a bunch of utility while still being outclassed by lots of better classes. who do the same thing as you.

>> No.37849213


No monk can do pummeling charge before level 12. Pummeling charge at 2 is just a sacred fist with moms dip. The best a monk can do is a non-flurry version of a pummeling charge build.

>> No.37849413


I love this concept.

>I hesitate to use the mutagen. The things it could unleash in me...
>What, you turn into a horrible slavering monster or something?
>Worse. I turn into a bodybuilder who thinks he's a paladin.

>> No.37849498


>> No.37849600

The main problem is that you can't enchanted firearm with inspired property and you have feat tax for firearm on top of feat tax for ranged study.

>> No.37849644

Look at all the other T4 class. They still capable of some specialize utility.

Ranger, Paladin, Bloodrager have spell.
Barbarian can fly or sunder spell.
Slayer has skills

>> No.37849804

Does anyone have the Iron Giant story? The one that is the forgeborn wizard?

>> No.37849915

That's true. T4 is a bit more flexible in PF than it was in 3.5.

>> No.37850411

Hey, /pfg/, I need your assistance.

My GM's allowing the Martial Training feats from Path of War, but I don't really know a lot about the maneuver system and so can't help explain it to the other players or know how to use it myself. Can anyone explain it to me or link me to some place the system is laid out so I can figure it out?

>> No.37850562


>No monk can do pummeling charge before level 12

u wot m8, they can take the feat normally at level 9

>> No.37850603

Yo Tg, got some a few questions. I'm trying to make a sorta Dark souls like campaign, any sorta monsters from bestiaries you can recomend to give that boss feel, or like overwhelming feel? Cause I know sure as shit skeletons are gonna get their asses kicked unless i pile them on them.

Note: Probs gonna be 4 players, and Clerics, Warpriests, and Pally's heal stuff heals for d4's instead of d6's

>> No.37850621


you know how many times the monk has died before that on average? Three.

>> No.37850632


Admittedly, average deaths in the first couple levels are disproportionately high.

Rusty Dagger Shanktown is a bitch.

>> No.37850634


[citation needed]

>> No.37850650


that doesn't sound fun at all.

>> No.37850654

>I'm trying to make a sorta Dark souls like campaign

Take the rat.

Make it advanced.

Make it undead or diseased.

Make it HUGE.

Add swarms it can summon by scratching it's mangy fur for a standard action and you've got a proper rendition of the Royal Rat Authority.

>> No.37850662


>> No.37850668

Master of many Styles Monk two levels, then go brawler for the rest, you take pummeling Style, Pummeling Charge, and Dragon style.

Enjoy your level 3 unarmed fighter that can pummeling charge through difficult terrain and allies.

>> No.37850686


But then you're a brawler

Warpriest > Monk > Brawler

>> No.37850694

wow okay thanks... actually that's pretty damn great.

I used a system in this that sorta gives the dark souls feel of one death isn't your only chance, but left the fear of death still in.

All my players have at least more than one life, but how many they have, they don't know. So they could have 4 lives but only think that they have 1 more before real death.

So I can throw some shit that's strong at them, they can run or fight it like men. And Die.

>> No.37850703


Yeah, that's what i am saying. The only use for monk is as a dip for moms. Zen archer if want to be a one trick ranged class.

>> No.37850708

Okay, so I was looking at halflings and I realized they have a racial feat called Risky Striker that's basically Power Attack (except not multiplied by 1.5 for 2-handing). It also stacks with Power Attack. Damage-wise, how does this stack up? Does a halfling barbarian with Risky Striker and Power Attack match/exceed the average DPR of a medium-sized barbarian with just Power Attack, or are the smaller damage die and STR penalty too much to overcome?

I just want to be a very angry short person who kicks a surprising amount of ass. Height puns drive him to rage. They might even be why he became a barbarian to begin with. No one is sure because he uppercuts them in the crotch whenever the topic is brought up while screaming "GODDAMNED BAKERS!"

Got you covered, mate.

>> No.37850739

Sorry then, same thing, but instead of brawler, go sacred fist Warpriest. Enjoy your level 3 warpreist that can do all that shit with a pummeling charge.

>> No.37850747


>against creatures two or more size categories larger than you

its shit

>> No.37850748


But dark souls isn't a hard game, not challenge wise. It's just memorization of patterns and a lot of cheap kills thrown at you until you learn where they are.

That's not going to work for tabletop. Not unless your friends are all retarded.

>> No.37850759

Ah, damn it. I just looked at the feat a second time and realized the damage bonus from Risky Striker only applies on things at least TWO size categories bigger than you. On the other hand, Large-size or larger isn't that uncommon... Still wish it applied to all creatures larger than you. It also means you can't try to offset your small size penalties with Enlarge Person, but if I wanted to be Medium I'd have just rolled up a human or half-orc in the first place.

>> No.37850760

>I just want to be a very angry short person who kicks a surprising amount of ass. Height puns drive him to rage. They might even be why he became a barbarian to begin with. No one is sure because he uppercuts them in the crotch whenever the topic is brought up while screaming "GODDAMNED BAKERS!"

Isn't vegeta a tired enough trope without another le quirky oc donut steel?

>> No.37850763

>be small sized
>nearly fucking everything is large or bigger after a few levels

It's the same reason Big Game Hunter is legit.

>> No.37850784

>That's not going to work for tabletop. Not unless your friends are all retarded.

What if he just aims to emulate the themes and copy a boss or four?

Like, Dark Souls lore is pretty damn spiffy for a campaign, and some of the bosses (Ornstein and Smough, Royal Rat Authority, The Pursuer and a couple others) would make for great BBEGs.

>> No.37850790

Monk can cover that with quinggong. Quinggong takes them from T6 to T5, pummeling charge makes them good enough at fighting for T4.

>> No.37850795


nah, I'd rather build around wild flanking

>> No.37850802

What I'm talking about is the challenge that's there for a first time player, one who doesn't just rage quit, combined with the atmosphere is what i'm trying to achieve.


Yes thank you that's what I'm trying to do. Maybe not even exactly copy so much as emulate bosses.

>> No.37850812


>> No.37850855


>be me a few years back
>run game based on Dark Souls
>it turns into Dark Souls 2 instead
>mfw koopa castle mario bullshit

>> No.37850973


Dark souls in table top would play out more like the edge of tomorrow, where the party is stuck in a time loop and they can't leave until they beat the dungeon, but when they all die the dungeon respawns. it's full of deadly bullshit but they're slowly learning how to get through it.

But they've been stuck for over a millennia now.

>> No.37851020

>Maybe not even exactly copy so much as emulate bosses.

A large or huge humanoid with a weapon. It attacks in a completely predictable pattern that it never strays from.

There, 90% of DS bosses. Is that really so interesting?

>> No.37851035


they just have to be mediocre shits for 90% of most campaigns to get that far.

>> No.37851040

That's why I said I'm trying to get it kinda like dark souls but not exactly, cause I don't want them to lose the fear of death. They're all kinda new players (A year and a half experience) and they haven't had some gm come down and just destory the idea of unique characters, so I want to keep that fear of death in them.


By the way this is not a fucking dick measuring contest to see who likes Darksouls and who doesn't. I'm simply asking for monsters that look like the bosses in it and can be a fucking challenge for someone two or three CR's lower than them.

>> No.37851086


The undead animated armor enemies would probably work, I'd imagine, particularly the Large ones.

>> No.37851095

Yeah, no, first few levels everyone is shit, later quinggong can bark skin and scorching ray, or do whatever shenanigans other archetypes let them.

>> No.37851114


that's not true. sacred fist 1 moms 2 can get pummeling charge by second level. Most classes can fuck shit up from an early level and only get meaner. Monk just doesn't do anything.

>> No.37851149

That's a pretty good first boss for them actually. Giant or Phantom Lancer that is, the others can easily be mooks.

>> No.37851155

I've never actually played Dark Souls sadly, but this picture has always reminded me of it. I'm not sure why, but maybe it's the sort of thing you're looking for?

>> No.37851157


What you actually want for inspiration is Castlevania

>> No.37851158

>That's why I said I'm trying to get it kinda like dark souls but not exactly, cause I don't want them to lose the fear of death. They're all kinda new players (A year and a half experience) and they haven't had some gm come down and just destory the idea of unique characters, so I want to keep that fear of death in them.

You do know you're supposed to be telling a happy story with your friends, right?

>By the way this is not a fucking dick measuring contest to see who likes Darksouls and who doesn't. I'm simply asking for monsters that look like the bosses in it and can be a fucking challenge for someone two or three CR's lower than them.

Well obviously since you don't know shit about DS besides that it's popular. Ornstien and smough would be good antagonists? the suits of armor with no dialogue?

jeez. Maybe you should try being original, but you'd probably find that harder than demon's souls.

>> No.37851173


That's Demon's Souls. The series has really tanked since then.

>> No.37851180

I need to make a dragon lair. My group slayed an old dragon and turned it into a map... Now they're gonig to its lair.

What should they find? inb4 treasure
What should they encounter?

It was a chromatic old white dragon.

>> No.37851199

Here's a sample monk build:

dorf monk (drunken master), 20 pb

str 16 +3
dex 12 +1
con 17 +3
int 10 +0
wis 16 +3
cha 5 -3


l 1 pummeling style
m 1 deflect arrows
m 2 dodge
m 2 toughness
l 3 power attack
l 5 fast drinker
m 6 throw anything
l 7 horn of the criosphinx
l 9 pummeling charge
m10 medusa's wrath
l11 deep drinker
l13 dimensional agility
m14 spring attack
l15 dimensional assault
l17 anything
m18 snatch arrows
l19 anything

monk powers

l 4 scorching ray, ki arrow, or mighty fist of the earth
l 5 drunken strength
l 7 wholeness of body
l11 drunken courage
l12 abundant step
l13 drunken resilience
l15 blood crow strike or cold ice strike
l17 blood crow strike or cold ice strike
l19 firewater breath
l20 anything


craft brew

key equipment

ring of ki mastery
amulet of mighty fists

>> No.37851222


It says here that white dragons live in the arctic.

So your party finds their own wintery tomb.

>> No.37851233


Actually, swap out throw anything at level 6 for horn of the criosphinx and take furious focus at level 7

>> No.37851236

I've played all the souls games and beaten all of them. The lead up is the interactions they'll have with various NPCs, I never suggested the no talking creatures being BBEG's, just Bosses. Theres a difference between the two.

And yes, I needed something like that for my campaign, thanks for the image, but I'm mostly looking for early tier stuff right now, nothing late game planning yet.

>> No.37851237


That said, I do feel like when people are saying "Like Dark Souls", a big part of that is atmosphere, which I don't feel that a party-based game is going to emulate as well. You can create some great atmosphere, but it's not going to be the same feel as being alone in a world that's falling apart as I understand Dark Souls is. Like >>37851157 says, you might be more successful going for a castlevania-style sorta thing, where the magic and the party doesn't undermine the feel of it all and you can make fuller use of the bestiary.

>> No.37851241


5 charisma? top lel. Can you even function as a person like that?

>> No.37851242

Chromatic White dragon

The lair is at the top of a split mountain.

>> No.37851256

He also only gains 1 attack from it, that's going to kinda suck since he gave up BAB for multiclassing and it ate up all his bonus feats.

>> No.37851260

I see your point there, but I'm trying to give an almost separation of the party with my own personal mechanics and such. Im really just trying to test this to see if my players like it and if they do I'll continue from there, if not, not that much work lost, can throw it away.

>> No.37851272

Yes, it's called the average 4chan user.

>> No.37851286


>chromatic white dragon

Oh thanks for the clarification i thought it was a bronze white dragon.

The lair is at the top of a split mountain.

In the planet's arctic circle, or it's not in an arctic mountain, the damn thing's habitat.

So how did anyone even know it was there? Who was it hurting, thousands of miles from any decent settlement? How did the players trek there? How are they going to recover any loot from the side of a mountain at 60 below zero?

That's an interesting challenge, alright.

>> No.37851291


sacred fist actually requires a moms dip for its bonus feats to function

>> No.37851306


Only gains 1 attack from what?

>> No.37851334

What? Sacred Fist has its own Flurry progression that works the same as normal Monk Flurry. You get extra attacks a little slower because of the level dip, but it's still wildly better than a base Monk.

That's actually not true. There's nothing stopping you from grabbing an extra style with your first bonus feat (like Dragon Style) and just switching between the two, and then grabbing later feats in the line (Pummeling Charge and Dragon Ferocity, in this case) with the later bonus feats.

>> No.37851374


But that's completely shit

>> No.37851408


charge, flurry and 2x str bonus to damage at third level is shit?

>> No.37851417

Ah, so it is from the series, then. Good to know.

>> No.37851430


You can't do that as a single classes warpriest

>> No.37851468


Try to keep up, sport. We're saying SF/MoMs is the only real monk build.

>> No.37851502


>Me: sacred fist actually requires moms dip
>Them: that's not actually true
>Me: it is if you don't want to suck
>You: We're saying sacred fists requires moms dip

I think you should keep up

>> No.37851511

You can't use them at the same time, but you can definitely make use of more than once style. Pummeling Style/Charge doesn't do you much good if you can't even get to the enemy due to difficult terrain, so switching to Dragon Style and then back next turn.

If you start a campaign at level 11 or higher, full Sacred Fist is straight up better than MoMS 1-2/SF X.

>> No.37851529

Yeah no son you're wrong. MoMs can use two or more styles at once.

>At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once.

>> No.37851538


I didn't say that. Not everyone is the same person on not-reddit.

>> No.37851562


>I didn't say the thing in the post that was written by me

>> No.37851581

MoMS can, straight Warpriest can't.

Straight Warpriest is a better build if you are past the point where you could get Quicken Blessing, but the MoMS dip is better for lower levels.

>> No.37851589


But I didn't write that post. is 4chan too hard for you to understand either?

>> No.37851656


I don't know who *you* are, but there is only one poster referred to as "you" in the post >>37851502 and it is in reference to the poster of post >>37851468 who is most certainly the poster of that post, since it is their post

is english too hard for you to understand?

>> No.37851690


You really are a jackass.

The mountain is considered remote because no one fucking climbs it. The dragon was hunting a group of travelers who attacked it while it was eating, but mistook the party for them.

Instead of helping me you're being a cunt.

>> No.37851696


Wow man, let it go. You gotta stop being triggered so easily. I'll concede this argument to you before you start hurting yourself, okay? Just take deep breaths.

>> No.37851741


>> No.37851761


There are no white metallic dragons, so why do you feel this omnipresent need to state the obvious that it's a chromatic (colors) white (color) dragon?

I'm helping you by pointing out the flaws in your story as a 5 year old could just as easily do because of how flawed it is.

Not my fault you think you can stick a certain kind of dragon wherever you please but insist on keeping to the technical naming definitions.

>The dragon was hunting a group of travelers who attacked it while it was eating, but mistook the party for them.

Why would anyone ever attack a dragon? Are they suicidal? How did the party kill the dragon? It landed and allowed them to? Because any smart dragon would only come as close to the ground as it's breath weapon range.

>> No.37851780


Redditors have a really bad habit of refuging in meme spouting whenever they can't get their way by simple assertions.

>> No.37851791

Yes. I landed and let them kill it.

>> No.37851809


Let me guess, you were re-enacting skyrim at that point? You're the guy who wants to make dark souls into a campaign as well?

>> No.37851826

You're fucking stupid.

>> No.37851847

Nah man thats me, different anon, but seriously >>37851761
why the fuck did you make the dragon land. WHY WOULD A DRAGON EVER FUCKING LAND.

>> No.37851865


Gotta eat and sleep sometime

>> No.37851866

Whoops im a retard, wrong person, i meant >>37851791

>> No.37851896


>mfw I realize how disgusting fighting a dragon could be

I don't wanna be that magical realm guy, but a dragon could conceivably fly by an enemy castle or whatever every day and let the diseases in its excrement kill its enemies for it

>> No.37851897

Why would it land in combat then?

>> No.37851915


They're magic, non magical dolphins can swim half-asleep. Food is likely to be a non-issue for a magic dragon that lives where there is no abundant food source. Shithead could just teleport to the nearest walled-mart and stock up then teleport back. No need to fly below the clouds where annoying insects can toss wood at you.

I blame shitty videogames for this particular lack of imagination.

>> No.37851916


Bard juggler would also potentially allow this. It's a strange archetype.

>> No.37851934


Now i kind of want to make a kingdom that's in the flight path of a large roost of dragons and it has an economy based on the export of said alchemical manure.

>> No.37851958


Got a little update on this character.

Specifically, what deity would he worship? For maximum swoon and teenage heartthrob I'm thinking Shelyn, but there might be others out there that fit the bill for a very young, very handsome and very damn naive Paladin.

>> No.37851976

Kill yourself in real life and learn.

>> No.37851977


Why not dragon scales, dragon cults and dragon nobility?

>> No.37851990


You're making Carrot Ironfounderson. Just roll with it.


>> No.37852025


>I make shit up

>> No.37852057

I, personally, dock no more that 2 points from the physical stats and add 2 to Charisma (In Pathfinder, at least). I know that sacrifices realism, but I think playability is infinitely more important than realism.

>> No.37852070

Sharks swim sleeping, dragons ain't need to land. Hell they just need to breath weapon shit then eat the corpses, only time need to land is to gather loot, and put loot in hoard.

>> No.37852099


Ah yeah i forgot white dragons are retards. Even a great wyrm can't cast at 7th level.

Most other dragons though, aside from the teleportation, it applies.

>> No.37852102


Name one source that says dragons in D&D can fly while sleeping

>> No.37852105

I'm trying to get a friend into Pathfinder but we only have us to play with. This person has never played a tabletop before and while I've DM'd for a long time I've never only had one player.
>arrived on the frontier of a port town >determined to set up a cabin in the woods with their wolf companion.
>Got drunk at tavern during the first night there and wrangled way into working for peasant, watching grain silo from goblin raider
>Finds goblins second night, decides to confront them non-violently (holyfuckthissurprisedme)
>Goblins are emaciated, haven't been able to eat as their old chief was slain and replaced with a Troll
>Decides to go kill Troll with help of the local border patrolman and wolf and one goblin.

Not sure how this is gonna turn out, it'll be the first combat. I'm afraid combat will get dry without me adding in an NPC for the PC to be with. Or I'm afraid that the Ranger will just not have enough utility to do much, kind of makes me want to load them up with magical options.

Anyone have any advice or experiences?

>> No.37852115


Name one that says it cannot.

And what is the point of this? The humans won't have to rest? The dragon will have no magical means of extending its endurance?

>> No.37852128


>Anyone have any advice

Stay away from Pathfinder

>> No.37852137

Give the player a bunch of NPC party members.

Whatever you do, don't let him go in by himself or with only one ally. Game's not balanced for that.

>> No.37852224

Yes, yes. Don't you have a quest thread to be fapping over?

>> No.37852279

Water and air are different mediums

>> No.37852301

>>37852137 They are a lv3 Ranger, not sure how to stat the boarder watchman, the wolf companion I don't think is going to be much help as far as up front damage or damage absorption. They still have a day and I made it clear that the troll would not be easy so maybe I'll suggest they find another companion. Or maybe I'll slay them and try to do basic RPG instead. ricefield.jpg
Stay away from Pathfinder because it's not good for one PC games or stay away because it's not a good system? I've been considering trying out basic RPG for something like this but I haven't been able to yet.

>> No.37852356

Make the border watchman a fighter or something. Doesn't really matter.

Also, a lot of people don't like Pathfinder because it almost actively discourages roleplaying to the point where most people's characters aren't really "characters". They're "builds."

Also, Pathfinder is pretty entry-tier.

>> No.37852364


Pathfinder is a bad system, recommended only for 3.5 holdovers who haven't converted to another, better system

It's definitely not a system for new players

>> No.37852416

>Stay away from Pathfinder because it's not good for one PC games or stay away because it's not a good system? I've been considering trying out basic RPG for something like this but I haven't been able to yet.

Yes to both.

It can be kinda alright for a solo system if you go ridiculous with Gestalt and he gets like, a squad to control.

>> No.37852434

Not that anon, but it's a bit of both. If you're already considering trying a different game, it doesn't hurt to give it a shot and see which you prefer.

>> No.37852626

Hey are staves worth using? Them seem absolute shit.

>> No.37852629

Question with Path of War:

Is taking Martial Training to get manuevers generally a good use of feats? Any classes that do particularly well doing that? I could sorta see a TWF Ranger really really wanting to try poaching as much of Thrashing Dragon as he can get his paws on...

>> No.37852667



>> No.37852674

They are some of the best things you can get. Fighters are good since they can get the most, and it's a really big step up from your standard combat feat.

I wonder how good would brawlers centered around using their martial flexibility be with them.

>> No.37852688

only if you have a way to daily fully recharge or use other easy renewable resource for it

>> No.37852699

Staff Magus loves em.

>> No.37852713

As a Wizard, it seems like a better idea to just get a set of wands than a staff. The staff requires you to burn prepared spell slots for the day to restore its charges, but why the hell would I want to do that if I could just go get a wand?

>> No.37852753

Dragon arent flying via magic. You have perfect manueverbility if you fly by magic.

>> No.37852754


I was thinking they might be kickass for giving an Eldritch Guardian some more goodies if I roll one up, good to hear it's worth it.

Broken Blade is probably pretty fucking sweet for Brawlers, although for my GM's sake I'd probably make that one of my permanent feats and grab simpler shit with Flexibility.

>> No.37852894

Retrieving the correct wand in combat require a few action, especially after they nerf Handy Haversack...

But generally, you are right. Staff is bad. Unless you're a specific build like Razmiran priest sorcerer that cheese via Craft Staves .

>> No.37852920

I keep my wands strapped to a belt across my character's chest. It takes a move action at most, which I'm willing to accept since I don't have quick draw.

>> No.37852965

Good for you. If I do that my sadist GM will try to fireball/ alchemist's fire me to destroy all the wand

>> No.37853014

Fireballs and alchemist fire in Pathfinder don't damage your items. Unless you roll a 1.

>Unless the descriptive text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). (Core Rulebook, page 217)

Sounds like your DM is just a cunt.

>> No.37853034


But they could cast spells and use them to fly.

>> No.37853171

They usually don't have fly spell.

>> No.37853270


The spell lists are just suggestions.

>> No.37854098

Is it wrong that that's almost exactly how I anti-paladin? Naive, wanderlust filled, bright eye'd murder machine? Takes slaves but treats her property nice? Spends more of her gold on outfits and slaves then on equipment. All she wants to do is become a queen/hero?

>> No.37854230

some gm's just arent familiar with third party materials and are leery of things they dont understand into their game.

>> No.37854286

pretty wrong. you can't even be naive as antipaladin.

Everything you do have to has ulterior movement and it
s all about yourself. For example, you treats slaves nicely because you wanted to train them and sell them at a higher price later or maybe you just like to slowly corrupt them and slowly influencing them toward evil.

Any altruist act and you're ex-antipaladin.

>> No.37854464

>Name one that says it cannot.
I don't care one way or another about this particular topic, but I hate that mindset of "It's not listed in the rules that _______ can't _______ therefore it can!"

The rulebooks also don't say that a halfling can't create a fireball spell by farting, but you don't see fireball farting haflings now do you?

>> No.37854480


For a raging halfling, I suggest a Savage Technologist with a Sling Staff. Risky Striker + Big Game Hunter + Large Target ahoy! Also, don't forget that a sling staff is in the Thrown weapons group, so Quick Draw should apply for iteratives, but not everyone is down with that.

>> No.37854664

Unfortunately you're right. I usually house rule that Paladins are only allowed to not be evil and anti-paladins are not allowed to be good. Because that's infinitely more interesting. But by RAW, you are absolutely correct.

>> No.37854733

Isn't Sleeping = Helpless condition?
You can act while being helpless. So it can't act or attempt fly skill check and plummet down.

>> No.37854749

*can't act.

>> No.37855401

> Pretending to be other class
> Every damn time other players read my sheet and now trying to find a fault for everything I act

Why they do dis ;_;

>> No.37855576

>fluff reasons


>> No.37855591

Chelish Diva is rad as shit. You can frighten things like a pro, wear heavy armor, and generally be an arrogant, stuck-up little slut.

>> No.37855610

Perfect. We can talk general character concepts, have movie night, and then talk some character specifics. I need to give them their assigned reading this week.

>> No.37855636

Hello, new gm here, I've recently went through the beginnersbox adventure with my group, Im gonna start running rise of the runelords next. I was thinking about adding a sidestory to this and the idea is something like this:
They meet a strange man in the Woods, he offers them a potion each, if the drink the potion the Will gain red eyes and a minor mutation. The man disappears, leaving the players wondering WHO the man was.

The man is a demon or something, wanting to turn the group into hos own demon army of sorts.

Now my question is, Will a mutation ruin the game, and is this stupid?

>> No.37855641

Gun Magic. It's the same reason high enough level action stars don't ever seem to reload often enough, Anon.

>> No.37855643


Why would you want to be a Gunslinger? They kinda suck...

>But muh guns with touch attacks in their first range increment

Yeah. And firing provokes, standard action to reload each barrel, limited attacks due to limited barrels, potentially uncommon ammo, misfire explosions... I mean they are cool and all, but to actually focus on using them actively in combat... eh?

>But muh rapid reload

Wow, so it's now a move action. Per barrel. So you're basically down to the following:

>Move to position, fire
>Reload, fire
>Move to new position, reload
>Fire, reload
>Fire, move
>Reload, fire

Unless you're really skilled at getting in and filing through ranks so you can nail all that touch ac, you're not really doing anything a Ranger couldn't do. Only with the Ranger, you get the benefit of some spells, a companion, and free combat style feats. Oh, and traps.

If you really want to, do this:

>Dip Gunslinger1
>This gets you Firearm Proficiency without the Feat, Grit which replenishes according to proper rules and not just once at the start of the day (Amateur Gunslinger), and a single Deed.
>Do not take Gunslinger as your Favored Class. Just take either the HP or SP for it.
>Go Ranger19
>BAB is the same (High progression) so you're crossover won't be affected
>Both get High Fort, High Ref, Low Will
>Your Will will be off by a point since you are extending the 0, but by 20th Level you'd still be at 6. I suggest taking Iron Will for that +2 bump, which you should do anyway
>On the plus side, F/R will be +1 higher
>At 1st Level for Gunslinger they are +2/+2
>At 2nd Level for Gunslinger they are +3/+3
>But you're going 1st Level for Ranger, which is again a +2/+2
>And adding +2/+2 to your preexisting +2/+2 makes that a +4/+4
>So at 20th ECL, you should have the following: BAB +20/+15/+10/+5 with a Fort +13, Ref +13, Will +8 (Assuming you took Ironwill, otherwise +6)
>Grit, Deed, Firearm Proficiency, Spells, Animal Companion, Traps, & Combat Style
>You're welcome

>> No.37855685

You forgot Alchemical Cartridge that every Gunslinger is using.

Dip 1 level isn't even good because it isn't not netting you Dex to damage.

>> No.37855700


Also word of advice: If you're gonna be the kind of guy who gets in nice and close just to pull off a shot, than back the fuck out... you may want to invest in Parting Shot, which allows you to make a ranged attack while withdrawing

Normally it's a FRA to Withdraw, which provokes. But I'm a little fuzzy on whether or not being within a threatened area and then stepping out of it also provokes. I believe it does, but I'm not sure.

The issue here is that if you have to be within your first range increment to nail that touch ac, to move away for your next shot, you may be provoking. I'm sure there are ways around this problem, but I'm not really certain of them.

>> No.37855772

>Big Bad Nookie Girl

>> No.37855793

Ranger can't do free bleed or spend 1 grit point to do Con Bleed.

They don't get Musket/Pistol Training. Dex to damage and other nice bonus like Fast Musket or Up close and Deadly .

>> No.37855797


You want to go Master Chemist so your mutagen gets its own personality and alignment. Be a CN douchebag alchemist, with the mutagen personality of a LG fighter for LOVE and JUSTICE!

>> No.37855824

Big bad neutral girl

>> No.37855871

Are there any doll monsters in pathfinder? What about a doll swarm?

>> No.37856087

soulbound doll and guardian doll is what my googlefu came up with.

Maybe just add construct trait to monster and make them tiny/swarm? tiny swarm of construct chicken dolls etc.

>> No.37856513

Need ideas for new character personality.
Probably going to be a Sorcerer, throw me anything that sound fun so I can mash it up all together!

>> No.37856656

Although not necessarily a doll, animated objects can be most any sort of object. So that includes dolls.


>> No.37856860

I remember animated tank in RoW.
They should make more stuff like that.

>> No.37856929

You treat them well because they are tools, and well treated tools are better than broken tools.

You help people because being liked is better (for you) than being hated.

But you are not above doing something really horrendeous to instill fear and respect in case someone misunderstands your motives and takes you for a noble pansy hero.

>> No.37856953

Shota mage looking to get rid of his powers so his parents will take him back.

>> No.37856984

thats actually depressing.

>Why can't They love me?
>Why am I a freak?

He's basically an X-men character

>> No.37857005

Maneuvers are good, but being a class that gets them naturally is better than spending the feats. Why do you want to be a ranger?

>> No.37857125

How about a Wizard (Spirit Binder) who's familiar is the soul of her husband. The lowered mental stats is representative of the fact that she could never fully bring him back at her current level of power.

>> No.37857131

On the up-side, mutagenic fighter grabs you basically everything you want from the fighter class in 2 levels, so you could mix fighter and brawler. Your pet would even get IUS and any feats you grab as well.

>> No.37857244


Yes. I'd really like to forgo the typical sacred fist build for one with crusaders flurry and bounding hammer. But it will be sub pat compared to pummeling style unarmed flurry.

Does a non monk need both hands to do a flurry of blows with just his free hand?

>> No.37857422

How do i do a slayer? I can't seem to find any guides on it.

>> No.37857493

>animate objects is a bard, cleric, and witch spell
>permanancy is a wiz/sorc spell


>> No.37857695


you're not playing league of legends, munchkin.

>> No.37857728

Check Ranger guides. It's pretty much the same class, but with Sneak Attack instead of magic.

>> No.37857758


Make the mutation some minor useful thing but potentially signs of something more worrying, and your players should have an interesting decision before them of if they should be trying to find out more about how the potions were made or trying to figure out how to go back to normal.

You can then go on to use "mutations" to add subtly wrong things to future encounters, like monsters that aren't normally magical picking up the Sorcerer Creature template from the Monster Codex (It's on the PRD if you don't have it), with the abyssal bloodline, obviously. Monsters with demonic strength and magic should be an immediate red flag something bad's going down, and you can let your BBEG make his presence felt through the corruption seeping into the setting as the PCs figure out what's going on and draw closer to facing him again.

>> No.37857778


Soulbound dolls for small ones, Soulbound Mannequins for human-sized dollies, Soulbound shell for human sized doll with wizard powers. As someone else mentioned, Animated Objects can also be dolls.

They're fantastic thematic minions for vampire bosses, in my experience.

>> No.37857792


Not so much interested as being a ranger in particular as the GM mentioned he was looking at Path of War and was allowing Martial Training, which makes me think he's still mulling over just letting us use the whole damn book and the classes therein. If that's the case, I'm just considering what classes get the most bang for their buck feating into maneuvers.

>> No.37857818

Fighters, because all they have are feats, so they might as well get something actually good from them.

The baseline Initiator classes are the best Iniators, though, because they can go all the way to 9th level maneuvers, while anyone using Martial Training is only going to get 6th level maneuvers.

>> No.37857838

Define Slayer.

>Warhammer Fantasy

Wild stalker (Archetype)
Rage of the Wild (Ex): At 4th level, a wild stalker gains the rage ability as the barbarian class feature, but its barbarian level is considered to be his ranger level –3. This ability replaces hunter's bond.


Two-Handed Weapon: If the ranger selects two-handed weapon style, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Cleave, Power Attack, Pushing Assault, and Shield of Swings. At 6th level, he adds Furious Focus and Great Cleave to the list. At 10th level, he adds Dreadful Carnage and Improved Sunder to the list.

But I would go Ranger (Guide) 1 / Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) X

>> No.37857921

If you can use the PoW2 Play test material, you should unleash you inner edge and play a Harbinger with trading away primal fury for Scarlet throne.
Level 3 with a scythe and you can be doing 5d4+4d6+1.5str in a single round with just a bit of set up.

If you cant, there is some alternative class features that went up earlier that gives you up to 6th level maneuvers without burning a ton of feats for certain classes.

>> No.37858033


Scarlet Throne does sound really fucking cool as a style...I'm tempted to try making a character that picks up either that or Veiled Moon for teleporty shit.

>> No.37858065

Oh Scarlet Zweihander Stance, I miss you so.

>> No.37858270


Make the whitest white mage that has ever lived.

No weapons, only spells, healing and love.

Thick, white strands of sticky love.

>> No.37858304

Are they ropey strands?

Will the kid be a little shota Woolie, just for laughs?

>> No.37858361

>Are they ropey strands?

Absolutely, coming out in generous pulses of healing energy that leave you smelling like old milk and pennies.

Personally I'd make the Cleric somewhere in the 17-19 range. You want him young, but too young and the DM/Players might not want to put him in hilariously sexual situations.

>> No.37858457 [SPOILER] 


Now we just need the right character portrait

>> No.37858938

Eh, isn't Crusader's Flurry Sacred Fist pretty cost-effective? Or have amulets and shit gotten into the price range of magic weapons now?

>> No.37859015


Well i plan on taking the pummeling charge combo as my main source of damage. I cannot use pummeling style on weapon flurries so it will limit the damage i can output. I don't want this to be my only consideration, however. But if i have to use a move action to sheathe my hammer when i need to do a large attack i'll just be putting the group in danger for some fluff.

I can see keeping a warhammer for tossing it at people and using it to overcome DR, since i'm not sure how the DR works on sacred fist unarmed strike progression, but i don't want to have it just for that. It seems like a warpriest of torag, even a sacred fist, would venerate his hammer.

>> No.37859070

So far its been more along the lines of her gaining social status and showing off. Slaves are like any other property and being able to have the best looking slaves means your even more wealthy and lavish. All of her actions are selfish and self indulgent. If helping yourself just so happens to help another so be it. She just has really low int and wis. Honestly it helps to remove some of the infighting between players in a evil campaign when your character isn't greedly grabbing magic items and is hording gems, jewelry and rings cause she's more interested in looking the part of royalty then having some dumb glowy bow.

>> No.37859168

Can't you just use your hand and one of your two feet or head? Improved Unarmed Strike definitely allows kicks. You could hold the weapon in one hand the whole time and still have loads of other limbs to satisfy whatever inane two-weapon fighting bullshit the rules require.

>> No.37859257


The monk version specifically says elbows, knees, kicks, etc. But the sacred fist version omits that, saying to only treat the damage like the monk ability, so i have no idea if i can punch or flurry with my free hand and other limbs while holding a warhammer.

I would think it'd be something like trying to grapple without free hands, imposing an attack roll penalty, but i cannot find any rules for this. The last thing i want to do is make the argument "but the rules don't say i can't"

>> No.37859307

"Unarmed Strike" is an attack you can make with any part of your body. So, yes, you can kick, punch, etc with a free hand. They specifically allow Flurry to be made with a single weapon (which Unarmed Strike is).

That said, there's really no point in running around with a Warhammer in hand that you 90% of the time never intend to use. Especially when you can just have it hang from your belt and never be more than a move action away.

>> No.37859347

>"Unarmed Strike" is an attack you can make with any part of your body.

I'm not questioning your integrity, but do you have that in writing?

>That said, there's really no point in running around with a Warhammer in hand that you 90% of the time never intend to use.

If i don't make concessions to fluff i'll feel like a min maxer.

>Especially when you can just have it hang from your belt and never be more than a move action away.

But then i couldn't use pummeling charge flurry as a full round action when i really need it. I guess i am a minmaxer.

>> No.37859385

Wouldn't be able to Pummeling Charge Flurry with the Warhammer, anyway. It's specifically unarmed strikes only.

The bit about Unarmed Strike is from a FAQ or errata somewhere, iirc, but I don't have time to look it up right now.

>> No.37859451

What are the best styles to combine for a Master of Many Styles/Hungry Ghost/Quingong monk?

Pummeling + Janni + Dragon seems to be the obvious part. But then what? Jabbing, for the monk's version of rend? Panther, for the counterattacks? I'm stumped.

>> No.37859520


>> No.37859574

Wait, int gets retroactive skill point bonuses?
So if I take two levels with a +5 int modifier, I get ten skillpoints total (plus class).
If I then take the next level with a +6 int modifier, I get 18 skillpoints total?

>> No.37859636


No yeah i get that. I could still flurry with the hammer using crusader's flurry, just not add up the blows with pummeling style. Like i said, the hammer is mostly there to stick with fluff, mitigate DR, hit a tiny bit harder when i can't flurry, and to throw when a shuriken won't adequately get the point across. I've scoured the d20pfsrd for any mention of how unarmed strike works when you have a hand full but i've not turned up anything.


Grabbing, Archon, Snake.

>> No.37859690

Yep, it's one of the big changes from 3.5 Paizo made to enhance the vigor of INT-based caster classes.

>> No.37859817


wait what? if i take a class with int+2 and then multiclass to one with int+4, do i get two additional skill ranks for first level? if i then go back to the +2 class what happens?

>> No.37859868

Nerd, it's JUST bonus skill points, not base skill points. Chill the fuck out. It's just an incentive for getting more intelligence as you progress through the game, I.E. an incentive for being a Wizard.

>> No.37859909


What made you assume i was emotionally compromised? I was just asking for clarification.

>> No.37859922

But... Wizards don't need that incentive. Their spells are already more than enough incentive.
Wizards don't even need skill points, they have level 3 spells that entirely supplant the skill system and any class that relies on them.
That's literally why rogues are so awful.
Why would they make wizards be both good at being wizards and at being skill monkeys?

>> No.37859962

Never said it was a good idea, son. Just said that they did it.

>> No.37859969


Paizo's not exactly subtle about its wizard-boner.

Hell, look at the ACG. The Arcanist is almost literally a wizard who mugged a sorcerer in a dark alley and stole all his nice things, with the side bonus that his archetypes also filched class abilities from the Magus and the Summoner.

>> No.37860040


>> No.37860061

I actually like the Arcanist as concept. But let's just say they overdid it a bit.

>> No.37860081

Daily reminder that the Wizard is better at mugging people in alleys than the rogue is.
An alley is almost certainly going to be dimly lit.
Guess which class feature doesn't work in dim light. Did you guess sneak attack?
Guess which class feature does work in dim light? Did you guess any of the wizards' dozens of spells that could be used to mug people?

>> No.37860097


>synthesis summoner

>hey guise, you know what'd be cool? Power Rangers, with no drawbacks.

>won't it break the game?


>> No.37860110

It does have a drawback though. Normal summoner gets to break the action economy.

>> No.37860115


does that apply even if you have darkvision?

>> No.37860186


The funny thing is that the Synthesist is actually the nicest Summoner because it has normal action economy instead of being a caster with a built-in martial buddy that takes two actions every turn.

People don't like it just 'cause it's not even PRETENDING it's not overshadowing the poor fighter.

>> No.37860212

Yeah Synthesist is probably one of the least broken summoner options.

>> No.37860225


Admittedly, it's still a very powerful option if you know what you're doing, but it's not as "fuck you" as the baseline summoner or Master Summoner, the class that seems to exist to give the GM and the rest of the party the middle finger.

>> No.37860375

You don't even need a party as Summoner or Master Summoner. You can just conjure one up.

>> No.37860628

As a devout Cleric of the Pallid Princess, what's the best way to keep Goodly types and Paladins from harshing on my vibe while I get my hedonistical pleasure on?

>> No.37860645


Make up some ludicrous hippy bullshit that only an idiot would accept.

Like "They can't tell you how to live"

>> No.37860670

Dude half that shit's cut in the side.
Chunks of sentence are missing everywhere.
You suck at cropping.

>> No.37860797

Because you care about the caster level or the save DC of the spell and you have enough downtime that you can recharge it occasionally without hindering your adventuring? I mean, they're still expensive for what they do, generally speaking, but just being able to use your own intelligence score and caster level instead of using the minimums makes them better than wands with any spell for which you care about either.

>> No.37860911

When you take a level in the 2+int you will get two plus your intelligence modifier. When you take a level in 4+int you will get four plus your intelligence modifier.

>> No.37860920

>dat goddess
>dat exposed pelvis

I'd hit it

>> No.37860965


Oh. is that all. Well duh. It was phrased much more convolutedly than was necessary.

>> No.37861062

When your Intelligence increases, it will be as if you always had that much intelligence.

Thus, if you were a 16 int Cleric (heaven forbid,) and you were not a human, you would have 5 skill points per level, right? 2 base plus 3 bonus.

But one day, because she thought you were cute, Sarenrae came down from on high and blessed you with two additional Intelligence, bringing you to a total of 18 intelligence.

Now, you have 6 skill points per level, but most importantly, you retroactively have an extra skill point for every level you took before the one you're on now, too.

>> No.37861086


Yeah, i only found that out working with sCoreForge, so i guess it wouldn't be intuitive.

>> No.37861122

It doesn't help that in 3.5 (many players last game before Pathfinder,) it most certainly didn't work like that, iirc.

>> No.37861323


I wonder how many people don't know that they get bonus spells if their wis or int score is high enough.

>> No.37861355

Doubt it's very many, considering how it's explicitly stated in each class' spells' description.
Whereas the retroactive skillpoints is something that's apparently quite easy to miss.

>> No.37861374

>dislike druid fluff
>shapeshifter ranger and beastmorph alchemist not quite what I'm after
>discover synthesist
>think I've finally found a way to covertly satisfy my deviant transformation fetish in the game
>DM tells me it's not allowed because it's broken as fuck

>> No.37861407


I had a person who thought "bonus spell" meant "pick anything from any list"

>> No.37861425


Like druid isn't broken.

>> No.37861430

Of course it's broken as fuck. It's like, 2/3 as powerful as a Druid.

The only answer in this case is to make that druid. Make that druid as powerful as you fucking can, and occasionally make happy quips about how much better this bonus or that bonus and all of your spellcasting are compared to the synthesist.

>I'm pretty happy with this druid, actually. I couldn't do all that natural spell stuff as a T-Rex with Eidolons, but this guy just rapes faces.
>I'm a boomkin AND a melee DPS AND tank!

>> No.37861519


It's harder for a synthesist to use enlarge person as well. Doesn't wildshape automatically do it?

>> No.37861661

Not sure but sounds about right.

Either way it's actually quite disturbingly consistent: The more balanced something is, the more viciously it gets accused of imbalance - always in direct comparison to utterly fucked up shit - by those who refuse to accept even the possibility of full-casters not being the most supreme entity on-high, and pure martials not being sludge stomped down in their prime by a Blue Slime on its very first adventure.

Over what, a decade and a half now? It's been utterly systematic: If it's Tier 3/4 but not in the original PHB, you drown it in vitriol until its grandparents retroactively choke to death on the semen of the wizards.

>> No.37861689

Oh, ok, I got redirected here from elsewhere.
I'm new to /tg/.

No lie. Sorry for being awful.
Never played DnD before. I was going to create a kobold archer in a new campaign with a friend.

Tips, ideas, etc?

>> No.37861735

Use a class that gets casting. I like bard archers, but paladins and inquisitors are a ton of fun too. I'd recommend you stay away from the ranger, it's pretty shit, but whatever you do, don't make it a rogue or a fighter.

>> No.37861759

You already lost me.

>> No.37861766


Bolt Ace?

>> No.37861773

>game balance is the only thing in that post that anyone took issue with
Never change, /tg/.

>> No.37861793

Don't make your archer a class that can't cast spells.
It's a common trap.
Fighter and rogue both seem like the "obvious" best classes for it, but they're both awful. Avoid them at all costs.

>> No.37861803

Go for the Inquisitor class. It's not super simple, but it's less complicated than using a computer, and it can do archer stuff, spell stuff, and skill stuff, which is nice (it means you'll almost always get to participate in nearly any problem or scenario.)

Plus you get cool religious flavor.

>> No.37861831


Ok, Dumb question:
I thought ranger/hunter were classes...?

Or are they not?

>> No.37861857


We ignore the inconsequential.

>> No.37861913

Ranger is indeed a class, but it's kind of bland and a bit weak.

You'll have more fun with a bard or an inquisitor, trust us.

>> No.37862005

Interesting info!
Could you tell me more about both of them, so I can make an informed decision?

>> No.37862032

Well, balance WAS what was thrown in the guy's face by his GM to stop him from playing what he wanted to try out.

Not because it was too powerful, but because he'd heard from someone who'd heard from someone who read on the internet that someone had told him they'd read about it being really broken.

>> No.37862080


Why kobold?

>> No.37862094

Because they are cute :3

>> No.37862102

And also because fuck being an elf.

>> No.37862165

Inquisitor is kind of like a more ranged/utilitarian not-paladin. They get judgements and lots of magic/team supports, but aren't as good as mainline combatants.

Bards are one of those classes that can suck or rock depending on how you build it. A well built bard (I like the Archeologist for this) is basically Redmage+, with tons of magical ability, tons of versatility, luck bonuses, combat capabilities, pretty much everything short of "oh and he lobs fireballs" (battlefield control's no problem though).

Well built bards are like "Adventurer the class"

Another option - though since it's technically psionic and third party (DSP stuff is well balanced, solid and generally with fun mechanics, this being probably their finest work IMO) is the Aegis. Aegis is "Metroidvania character" the class, amazingly versatile, and every single Martial class' absolute best multiclassing friend. You'll find anything short of Full Casting (but you can do some serious shenanigans by making power-stones - these are basically psi scrolls - reusable by integrating them to your Aegis) and Weapon Training/Accuracy-Bonuses on this class. Mobility, survivability, utility are top-notch and only eclipsed by "use divination to know exactly which spells to memorize tomorrow" arrangements. There's a bit of debate as to whether they're shining around the top of Tier 4 or a moderate Tier 3, which for what's basically a "martial and 1/4 of a partial caster" type class is downright abnormal for Pathfinder class design.

>> No.37862186


How do you intend to roleplay that?

>> No.37862283

You're asking a different anon.

If you ask me:
Kobolds generally don't like people other than kobolds, normally, yes?

Green kobolds live in forests, am I wrong?
If I'm not mistaken, the green kobolds are the most "tolerant"?

>> No.37862373

Speaking of summoners
anyone got any neat homebrew evolutions?
gm said i can propose a few for him to look over, but im not terrible inventive, please help
also, I am using a synthesist summoner, so if that helps

>> No.37862394


As i recall, kobolds in pathfinder are all psychotic little despots trying to make themselves look like or be like dragons because of one past glory they had.

Basically, kobolds are americans.

>> No.37862444


>> No.37862454


The ability to change into a car or an airplane? This is what i'll be basing my synthesist on if i ever get a chance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E_lsdOFoMM

>> No.37862506


>Americans are weak, craven, and seethe with a festering resentment for the rest of the world, especially members of races that seem stronger, smarter, or superior to them in any way. They proudly claim kinship to wolves, but beneath all the bluster, the comparison to their glorious cousins leaves kobolds with a profound sense of inadequacy. Though they are hardworking, clever, and blessed with a natural talent for mechanical devices and mining, they spend their days nursing grudges and hatreds instead of celebrating their own gifts

>> No.37862563


So yeah, I was thinking of making him a bitter, angry little fuck that lives in a cabin in the woods.

>> No.37862600

i was thinking more on the magical scale than technology
homebrew feats and the like that would aid a summoner would be nice too
mainly looking for evolutions though

>> No.37862837

Am I the only one who really wants the jewel of everlasting gold? A shame you can't steal it.

>> No.37862840


Does he mail bombs to places that would subvert the rights of dragonkind?

>> No.37862910

Do dead porcupines count?

>> No.37862927


Sort of. He should be named Kaczyn.

>> No.37862963

I'm still not 100% certain on the class.

What about gunslinger can you tell me?

>> No.37862977

Bullshit. Ranger makes an perfectly good archer as well. It's literally the class built for it.

>> No.37862987

Gunslingers are bad. Well more like Guns are bad. But yeah

>> No.37862992


Evolution: Wheels. Base speed 60ft
Evolution: Jet engine. Base flight speed 120ft.

Wheels could exist on a magic creature, and squid have jets of sorts. It's magic. neither of us have any responsibilities to verisimilitude.

>> No.37863016


I hear it's not very good, due to reloading being a chore. I've always wanted to try a Holy Gun Elmer Fudd though. I'm hunting wumpertingers, hehehehehe.

>> No.37863034


How do traps work?

Specifically. Used in combat? Out of combat? Are they thrown? Placed at the user's feet?

>> No.37863057

It might not fit your idea of "bitter, angry little fuck that lives in a cabin in the woods" as well as you'd like, but kobolds really better lend themselves to casters because of their racial stat adjustments. You could pull off a really grumpy wizard or angry sorcerer pretty easily, although I dunno if that's what you're interested in. Kind of a big step away from gunslinger.

>> No.37863117

Built out of combat. Their effectiveness depends on your GM. You should be able to build them to get food reliably, and probably capture people unused to the wilds as well, but beyond that it's up to your GM. In my old group our ranger set up explosive traps when they were expecting an ambush, and I let his mines be pretty effective against the first wave of mooks. In my current group, the GM waved our bard's trapped cave entrance away with a "they see your trigger and don't step on it. Roll initiative".

>> No.37863129

Just feeling things out at the moment.

Ranger - ?

>> No.37863218


Beartraps work like beartraps. You hide them in things that people are likely to step in or put their hands in. So shallow pools of water, mud, and treasure piles.

Just copy what the vietnamese did. They were very koboldy about it.

Look at this. Imagine how much that would suck to fall into. It'd probably cost less than an SP to make as well.

>> No.37863224

Hey I have been playing Pathfinder for about a month and I was looking at the Mist Child racial for Changelings, Is a concealment build viable? How the fuck does concealment even work? I would pick up spells like Obscuring Mist and use that to make myself harder to hit right?

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