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[ERROR] No.37513444 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

How do you envision a typical dragon hoard?

A recent thread brought it to my attention that given the numbers in the PHB and MM, a D&D style dragon's hoard probably doesn't contain all that much gold, or rather the fact that one ton of gold, or 100,000 gp, would be a cube less than two feet on all sides, much less than the typical fantasy depictions of mountains of gold (or at least a pile big enough for a dragon to sleep on)

So when you or your DM describes a dragon's hoard, what do you think of?


Alternatively, dragon thread

>> No.37513508

>>37513444
I think of mountains of gold, but that is not a dragon's true wealth, at least, not a dragon that makes Tzeentch look like a armchair general. The true wealth in that kind of dragon's hoard is the age old plans and contingencies, that allow the dragon to dick over an entire country with but a single gesture

>> No.37513845

>>37513444
A vast pile of gold, gems, armor, weapons and other valuables. The actual in-game value of a hoard is often impressive enough, but falls far short of what one often imagines.

Personally, I'm also a fan of having dragons in a more "esoteric guardian" role, at least the intelligent ones. Beasts hoard shiny gold and the leftovers of fallen, would-be slayers. Intellectuals keep ancient secrets and powerful blessings.

>> No.37514195

Well, wealth, gold coins, jewelry, equipment, etc.
Although I'd personally go for broader terms of wealth.

>> No.37514277

>>37513444
A horde of dragons

>> No.37514322

A giant bed of precious metals, and probably piles of precious gems.

I personally think Dragons like gold coins because they're soft enough that they mold to the Dragon's shape when they lay down in a pile.

>> No.37514704

>>37513444
>So when you or your DM describes a dragon's hoard, what do you think of?
You are seriously tempting me to post the hoard of dildos...

>> No.37514736

>>37514704
Gotcha covered

Is it bad this is the only one of those hoard pics I've saved?

>> No.37514740

A triple a negacorp.

>> No.37514797

>>37514736
Fast and solid, yo. More dragon hoards incoming.

>> No.37514844

>>37514797
This is more up my alley...

>> No.37514947

>>37513444
I don't expect coins to be 100% gold. 10% would be plenty.

There should also be silver, gems, armor, jewelry, weapons and other artifacts.

Occasionally prisoners, literature and/or statuary.

>> No.37515030

>>37513444
Pretty small, depending on how common dragons are.

If gold is similarly valuable in a fantasy setting as in the real world, it needs to be at least in the same ballpark when it comes to how rare it is.

A hoard the size of Hobbit-movie-Smaug's hordee, which is pretty outrageously big, is, depending on what institutes measurement you use, somewhere between the size of "All the gold in the world" and "Several times all the gold in the world"

In most settings, walking off with as much gold and gems as you can carry is gonna set you up for life, so it doesn't HAVE to be some kind of Ducktales gold-vault to be impressive.

>> No.37516001

>>37513444
Dragons in my pure fantasy setting will basically hoard ANYTHING that they see value in. Especially beautiful things, but they will also horde powerful things too, even individuals who fit either (or better yet, both) of these criteria.

But their greed and powerlust make them incompatible with society at large, and thus they operate as leaders of crime syndicates, masters of raiding hordes, as pirate lords, and generally other forms of leaders of outlaw organizations.

Their hordes can be basically anything, and often are. Exquisite, hidden, palatial fortresses filled with some of the strongest guards, the most beautiful people, ancient magical items, potions, priceless artwork, luxurious beddings, the list goes on and on.

So a dragons horde is unlikely to be piles of gold per-say, but they're likely to LIVE IN their hoard and be surrounded by everything it contains and revel in it. Though it's not uncommon for dragons to toss craploads of gold, silver, and copper/bronze coins on their beds (along with other things) and sleep on them like that)

Helps they're also not that big, on all fours they average six to eight feet from foot to head, on their hind legs they stand a bit more impressive ten to twelve feet. (just don't assume they're weak either)

>> No.37517270

>>37513444
Think it varies in character with various dragons.

One in a game I ran had a city state and everyone in it- but especially the palace, her actually gold-and-jewels hoard, and a collection of weapons and standards she had a hobbyist's interest in. She was a fan of heraldry, if only so she could properly insult the nobility cowering beneath her.

Another had most of his hoard tied up in a secret organization of informants and an assassin cult he'd fostered to worship and serve him. Oh, of course he had a nice bed, and a sweet hidden palace, but he was a fan of putting most of it to work.

Same thing with a more metallic (as opposed to chromatic) streak was one who lived an alter-ego life as a wealthy merchant with spies and traders across the region serving him, managing various enterprises with magic. (Easier to do when you can cast sending a couple of times a day.) He was the only one who lived in a humanoid form mostly so that he could raise his daughter but he was fairly sociable for a dragon, so it might not all have been noble.

>> No.37519062

I've always thought scrooge mcduck dragons were silly, because a dragon can't do anything with coins. Ever seen a dragon in a shop? Also they can't even pick them up with their huge claws. I can see them taking trophies, because they're so vain, a sort of museum of fallen foes, but coins are too common for dragons to care about in my opinion.

>> No.37519134

Like the famed sword of a fallen hero, a relic from a great temple, or the crown jewel of a town they razed. Some middleweight merchant's pocketchange isn't going to make the most powerful mortal race sleep better at night.

>> No.37519723

>>37519062
>Also they can't even pick them up with their huge claws.
I just want to point out, all dragons in the monster manual have dex 10 no matter the age category, that means that no matter how big they get, a dragon can manipulate objects just as good as the average person can, so by RAW a dragon and a person can use the same pen and paper to write stuff down without any difficulty

>> No.37520331

>>37519723
Any dragon that isn't equipped with the item that lets your stat count as higher for the purpose of stat damage [for dex] doesn't deserve the name.

>> No.37521105

>>37519723

>as if dragons care about RAW

It's not that their dex isn't good enough, it's that human coins are the wrong size category for anything but a hatchling.

>> No.37521418

>>37519062
Just a thought, what if a dragon hoard is mostly pebbles or gravel enchanted to look like wealth to look more intimidating? It doesn't remove the impact of there being a ton of stuff to sift through, but it makes post-slaughter looting a little easier.

Tangent, but are there any good estimates on just how much gold was in Jackson's Hobbit's Erebor? It felt like more gold coins than had ever been minted irl.

>> No.37522331

A carefully maintained collection of coins, indexed and sorted by age, culture of origin, approximate value, size, weight, place of minting, or however he feels like storing them based on whim and whimsy.
He in fact spends most of his time re sorting his existing collection, or sorting through recent acquisitions.
So much so that he has taken to sending adventurers who might otherwise seek to slay him on coin hunting expeditions.
He goes raiding once every few centuries to refill his yet-to-be-indexed pile, but other then that keep to himself for the most part.
That's how I dragon... Or rather that's how I want to dragon but wont because I don't have a group to play tabletop RPG'S with.

>> No.37524193

a shapeless bed of gold coins, fused together by dragonfire; in which torn spellbooks, weapons and jewels are crusted in. A dragon knows instinctively that a Black Lotus is treasure, but he lacks the skill to keep it near mint.

>> No.37524488

a gigantic mound of hipster shit

>> No.37524835

>>37524488
>a gigantic mound of hipster shit
What? Does this dragon have a scat fetish?

>> No.37524880

>>37519062
They're glorified magpies. It's not the value they care about, they just like shiny things - gold especially.

>> No.37525175

>>37513444

1. That calculation was wrong, since gold coins don't contain 100% gold
2. 100,000 gp was not the standard MASS of a dragon hoard, but the minimum VALUE for a dragons hoard to work in a divine ritual

>> No.37525206

>>37525175
It's not about the precise value or volume of the hoard, it's to illustrate the fact that the standard D&D-values of treasure don't add up to nearly enough to make a bed of gold for a dragon.

>> No.37525451

>>37516001
Well, medievals portrayed dragons about that size. I like them a bit bigger usually.

>>37517270
Dragon worship isn't seen often enough.

>>37519062
European dragons were or wyrms embodied greed among other things.

>>37525206
>>37525175 said it wasn't the standard but the minimum.

>> No.37525645

>>37525451
> >>37525175 said it wasn't the standard but the minimum.

Which still misses the point. Dragons in 3.5 have triple standard treasure, so a CR 20 dragon would have a hoard worth about 240 000gp. That is still insufficient to make a very good bed of gold for the dragon by orders of magnitude given that said dragon would be gargantuan or colossal.

But again, the point isn't in the precise values.

>> No.37525701

>>37525645
I guess I never assumed it was all gold, I thought there would be plenty of silver and copper in there. Like if half that hordes value was in copper pieces it would be 12 million copper pieces, plus 120k gp.

Or more likely millions of copper and silver pieces, and somewhere over 100k gold.

>> No.37525815

>>37525701
You could inflate the volume by a factor of 50 and it would still be only about 1000 cubic feet(assuming a hoard worth 240000gp for a CR 20 dragon)... which may SOUND impressive, but once you start considering that the said dragon would be minimum of 32' long(probably closer to 64' in some cases), it would be still be spread quite thin. And when you ask people to picture a dragon's hoard, I don't think many of them come up with something mostly silver and copper with barely enough gold to coat it.

And that's not even taking into account that since we're talking about D&D dragons, it should probably be assumed that much of the value is tied up in magic items(some of which the dragon might even be using) and other things worth more than their weight in gold.

>> No.37525851

>>37513444
Mostly the armor and weapons of those who failed to kill it, along with the bones of what it's been eating. There are also chests scattered about that it stole.

My dragons like being reminded that nothing can kill them, once they're large enough to have a hoard that is, not that they're rich.

>> No.37526106

>>37513444
Unless the GM describes it otherwise, I imagine a dragon's hoard as the typical mound of coins, jewels, treasures, and so on.

I don't know how I would describe a given dragon's hoard if I were the GM. I'd probably make something up that feels right. Of cousre, that's only if I was GMing a generic mishmash fantasy game, like D&D.

If I were to have to include dragons in a setting of my own, I'd have them designed to guard a "hoard" of sorts, which could be a specific place, a rare artifact, or some quantity of resource.

>> No.37527167

Fucking Christ someone just repost the short story that anon wrote about the dragon who had to eat her kobold lover as part of her hoard and then broke into Dragon Heaven to retrieve him.

I'm STILL teary-eyed over that.

>> No.37527354

>>37527167
>had to eat her kobold lover
what.

>> No.37527439

>>37527354
We had a hoard thread earlier this week about the implications of living creatures being part of your hoard if you are considered to "own" them.

One anon wrote a rather touching short story about a dragoness who knew she'd have to eat her lover eventually but held off on it until he was going to die of old age anyway and they both agreed to it. In the end, he made her promise to find him after she became a goddess.

Long story short, he went to dragon heaven and she followed him there to retrieve him as per their promise. Maybe someone saved it? I'm on my phone atm or I would find it...

>> No.37527468

>>37527439
why does he have to eat her though. I don't understand.

>> No.37527545

>>37527468
Probably because the weird yandere "Now we'll always be together" thing.

>> No.37527570

>>37527468
>the implications of living creatures being part of your hoard if you are considered to "own" them.
>Reading comprehension, what is it?
She ate HIM, ya dingus. And we were discussing what intrinsic value people as property could have in a hoard since people, like gold, are intrinsically worthless unless given value.

He was her most valued possession and therefore part of the valuables she needed to sacrifice to fuel the ritual.

If anything, they had no guarantees that she could retrieve him from whatever afterlife he went to, even after she ascended and that's a much bigger sacrifice than the gold she could replace easily after becoming a goddess.

>> No.37527688

>>37527545
Not at all. He was going to die of old age anyway and she had spent most of her hoard trying to extend his life. That didn't work so they both agreed that she might as well ascend before he died of natural causes.

>> No.37527694

>>37527570
>She ate HIM, ya dingus
Your pronouns were very confusing. Also, you didn't mention any kind of ritual sacrifice ever, she was just like "dragon had to eat their kobold, so sad!"

>> No.37527751

Man, I don't know. A big pile of gems and gold and shit works. It can seriously be enough to sustain an adventuring party in complete opulence for the rest of their lives and their descendents. It's okay for it to be enough to acquire a substantial nation. There's enough things that big piles of gold just can't buy.

>> No.37527902

>>37527694
>eat her kobold lover as part of her hoard
>the implications of living creatures being part of your hoard if you are considered to "own" them.
I dunno, anon, that's pretty unambiguous in a thread about the dragon ascendant ritual (eating your hoard in a ritual to become a god ).

As for pronouns, I can see how that might be confusing but it really just requires more careful reading.

>> No.37527969

>>37527902
>in a thread about the dragon ascendant ritual (eating your hoard in a ritual to become a god ).
I wasn't in that thread, how would I know that?

>> No.37528065

>>37527969
Because my preface mentioned that that was what the thread was about? The only reason I included the preface at all was to show that that thread and this one were related (although tangentially).

Mostly they're related because a Dragon has to eat their entire hoard to become a god and the hoard has to have a minimum value of 100,000GP for the ritual to work. Doesn't matter if the hoard is 1 x 10^20 ( somehow), they have to eat it all.

Hopefully that makes it clearer.

>> No.37528173

>>37528065
Not the anon you're replying to, but where did you preface it? Since honestly I was as confused as they were until you explained it to them.

>> No.37528233

>>37528173
Not that anon, but I was in the thread earlier this week. Good stuff.

>> No.37528419

>>37521418
Forget coins, its at a minimum several dozen times more gold than has ever been mined period. Probably hundreds of times more.

>> No.37528522

This shows how much gold has been mined in history.

Even if you assume a packing efficiency of 10% all the gold there has ever been cannot even come close to Erebor in the film. It *might* cover the hoard in the book given coins do not pack with perfect efficiency and there is lots of silver and random items in there.

http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/conversation-with-smaug-tolkien.jpg

>> No.37529791

>>37513444
I imagine it's more than just gold coins. Probably also statues, sculptures, paintings and other works of art with a high value.

This is because I don't see dragons as just greedy assholes who go out looking for money. I imagine them as being worshipped as living gods by some more primitive races/tribes (kobolds would fit well) and thus recieving all kinds of sacrifices from their followers, which of course would take on other forms than just goldpieces.

>> No.37530460

I like the idea of dragons appreciating objects for their aesthetic qualities instead of their actual monetary value.

>> No.37530507

>>37527354
>>37527468
>>37527545
There is a class in the draconomicon where at the end the dragon is now a god but BEFORE it can take any levels, it has to eat it's hoard worth at least 100,000 gp and it has to eat the whole thing, it can't save even a single cp.

One anon pointed out that in addition to gold, jewels, and magic items, a "hoard" can include stuff like land, people or really anything the dragon regards as theirs.

So if she regarded her lover as part of the hoard?
Well she'd have to eat him for godhood along with everything else of hers

>>37527969
>>37528173
Gotta agree with these two, there was nothing to point them to the ritual or that last thread

>> No.37530594

>>37529791
>>37530460
There was a thread a little while ago here about alternative dragon hordes (is that where the dildos and panties pics came from?), and the conclusion was basically these, that gold and gems are only so valuable and the real worth would be priceless pieces of art. I remember someone saying a cool idea for a horde would be an enormous library, full of one of a kind biographies of forgotten heroes, the history books of civilizations dead for ten thousand years, the spellbooks of legendary wizards, etc. To avoid damage to the books and shelves, the dragon could have magically/genetically/whatever modified its breath weapon to be a jet of carbon monoxide or some other deadly but noncorrosive gas.

>> No.37531148

>>37530594
>To avoid damage to the books and shelves, the dragon could have magically/genetically/whatever modified its breath weapon to be a jet of carbon monoxide or some other deadly but noncorrosive gas.
Or considering that these "books" are tens of thousands of years old, they could perhaps also just be stone tablets. Imagine that, stone tablets with the spells of some of the earliest wizards whose legendary power shaped the world, spells that are now commonly thought of as myths by the most esteemed academics.

Stone tablets would give the impression that they're even older, while also solving the breath problem.

>> No.37531306

>>37531148
That right there is probably worth at least a few thousand gold.

Easier to eat than 100k gold coins.

>> No.37531352

>>37531148
How about "books" with covers of steel pages of paper-thin bronze? Good combination of immunity to breath, resistance to age, and maintaining the feel of a library full of books.

>> No.37531470

>>37531352
Somebody had their dwarves have something like that - gold plates on the walls of the lord's halls and library, filled with knowledge.

There was a fair bit of crap in with that idea too, but I liked it

>> No.37531501

>>37531306
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking about the implications of one of those dragons like >>37516001 or >>37517270 wanting to go for godhood


Though >>37514736 gives a fun mental image, doubt she'd be "eating" most of them with her mouth

>> No.37531553

>>37531501
To be fair, mine was just using the cult as a means of keeping his 'family' blindly loyal and easy to control.

Though being a dragon, he'd probably have eventually decided to take it seriously as he got older.

>> No.37531618

>>37531553
Honestly for a fairly amoral dragon (or at least one that doesn't care about "mortals"), setting up a guild, spy network, kingdom, or any other organization as it's hoard would be a easy way to get the necessary net worth for the ritual, just gotta make sure it knows where everything is so nothing slips through the cracks

>> No.37531879

>>37527167
Couldn't find one so I made it

>> No.37532330

>>37513444
The only reason dragons have hoards is because Smaug had one, and the only reason Smaug had one is because some dwarves somewhere amassed an ungodly huge amount of it in one spot, and Smaug was the last big firebreathing dragon alive to come and take it, so he did. Also, he had help from Sauron (the BBEG).

In D&D, their reason for having treasure is basically that "it's shiny".

If anything, they should have treasure so that they can better manipulate little humanoids like us, or else take human form and buy magic shit for themselves to use.

...which brings me around to thinking that they hoard it somewhere safe and secluded (like a cave) before using it.

Anyway, it doesn't need to be big enough for the dragon to sleep on it. It's appearance depends on the dragon's personality; some might just lump it all into one pile, others might organize it into stacks or something. Some might have several smaller hoards spread out.

It can be composed of whatever is considered valuable to people in the world in question; so it could be a giant pile of money and gems (mostly coppers and silvers), or a giant pile of furs and bones and meat (in a prehistory setting). Whatever.

It doesn't need to be a giant mountain of gold.

>> No.37532423

>>37532330
>The only reason dragons have hoards is because Smaug had one,
stopped reading

>> No.37532712

>>37532330
Are you kidding?

Dragons have hoards because Fafnir and the dragon Beowulf killed had hoards in Germanic myth. And they symbolise greed and evil in Medieval Christian belief.

Given Tolkien was an Anglo-Saxon Scholar and translated Beowulf its easy to see where he got the idea. Just like the Dwarven names are straight from the Norse myths.

>> No.37533008

>>37532712
you shut your educated mouth

>> No.37534466

>>37533008
Never and you cannot stop me.

Also I wish more dragons went down the cult route. Hell I could easily see races such as reptilians seeing dragons as angels, demigods or avatars of their gods.

You just know some dragons would love to spend all day basking in the sun being fed whole pigs by sexy lizard girls.

>> No.37534522

>>37531306
Just how much is the sun worth, anyway?

>> No.37534567

>>37534466
I know some humans that would love to spend all day basking in the sun being fed bacon by sexy lizard girls

>> No.37534650

>>37534466
Damn straight.

>> No.37534675

>>37534522
Priceless. It's worth more than the grand total of all life in our planet and on it.

Not to mention the other planers and all the minerals and shit.

>> No.37534735

>>37534650
Well drawn. Who's the artist?

>> No.37534804

>>37534650
Well met, Argonian.

>> No.37534933

>>37534735
Haven't a clue in the world. Just posting the more appealing parts of my scalefolk/dragonkin folder.

But really, that's the dream, right? Reign over a tribe of lizardfolk as god-ruler, bangin' anyone you want and eventually waited on hand and fo- er, claw, by sexy halfbreed daughters? Or sons, if that's more your speed.

>> No.37534978

>>37534675
That ascension ritual must be a real pain when your hoard doesn't have a defined gp value.

>> No.37534988

Dragons are master shape shifters.

The reason everyone went on and on about dragons dying out and going extinct was not what it seemed.

Dragons don't control the banking industry. They are the banking industry.

Those gold hoards are the gold reserves of kingdoms, empires and some of the larger trading companies.

Now dragons don't come roaring down from the mountains as fire and death to put the dread of mortality into the lesser people. Now they come leisurely walking with bailiffs and accountants to put the dread of audits into lesser businessmen.

Those kingdoms where there is a dragon in the heraldry of the royal family are often dragons. Their hoard is the kingdom. They grew board with gold.

>> No.37535198

>>37534466
>You just know some dragons would love to spend all day basking in the sun being fed whole pigs by sexy lizard girls.
Could put a nice spin of sacrifices, tribes trying to buy themselves back from their dragon god so they won't get eaten when it goes for godhood

>>37534522
>>37534675
>Clam the sun as her hoard
>Finds a way to eat the sun
>Becomes new sun goddess
>Everyone must behold her glory as she flys across the sky everyday

>>37534933
Just don't get too attached, you want actual godhood you're gonna have to eat all of that

>>37534978
Eh, it's at least 100,000 gp right?

>> No.37535389

>>37534466
>You just know some dragons would love to spend all day basking in the sun being fed whole pigs by sexy lizard girls.
I may do that, have most dragons in lands full of lizard people rule over them as cults, probably have it vaguely Aztec like so the "god" eating them to achieve godhood doesn't come out of nowhere

>> No.37535489

>>37535198
If that picture is to scale then becoming a sun goddess would probably be a step down. At that size and with that much sunlight, she could have entire civilizations develop on her body and not even notice.

>> No.37535635

>>37535489
>Dragoness becomes sun goddess
>Wants to go up a few divine ranks
>Clams stars as her hoard
>Realizes world will die if she goes and gets those stars
>Some of her stuff is there
>Wait, that's part of her hoard to then
>Eats world
>Uses god powers to recreate it in a demiplane inside her to take it with her

>> No.37535795

>>37514277
What system?

>> No.37535820

>>37534650
Goddamn I want to eat argonian pussy

>> No.37535901

>>37534466
That also happens to the dragons I described >>37516001

>>37531501
And you better believe they try for godhood. Those that don't in my setting are secure in the belief they ARE gods already.

>>37528522
Maybe that's why a fantasy setting my switch out from a gold based economy: because even assuming there's ten times that much gold in the setting, the dragons are still hoarding it all.

>> No.37536078

>>37534988
boring

>> No.37536110

>>37535198
>eat all of it
Just keep it going.
And eventually, when you get old enough that you aren't quite as virile and fecund as you once were, don't quite have the same urges, your descendants start to die off (being only part dragon,) and your worshipers begin to get disillusioned with your increasing lethargy...

That's how you know it's time.

>> No.37536126

>>37527439
>dragoness

That's as dumb as saying "giantess."

Dragon is not a title, it's a state of being (unless you're a Dragonlord) so therefore she's a dragon that happens to be female.

Also kobolds are boring, would've been much more interesting if her prized possession was something that's actually valuable, like an Elf or Human.

>> No.37536231

>>37536126
So lionesses don't exist?

>> No.37536437

>>37536110
I think according to the draconomicon, dragons just get bigger with age, they die of starvation rather than old age

>>37536126
>dragoness
It is a technically correct way of referring to females of certain species

>> No.37536491

>>37536231

I knew someone would say that.

Lioness works a tiny bit differently because there are notable differences between the female lion and a male lion, mostly how back in the good old days people got all sorts of aroused by lions (given their symbol as royalty) which led to people using the traditional nobility ends for them (Countess, Duchess, Count, Duke, Lion, Lioness) and, to a lesser but still significant extent, making a big distinction between female and male lions so when someone says "I have a lion on my heraldry" people know what they're talking about.

Dragoness, much like Giantess, does nothing but sound like people trying to sound classy in topics that almost never turn out to be classy.

>> No.37536649

>>37536491
And they didn't about dragons? Guess someone should of told Henry VII

>> No.37536651

>>37536437
>It is a technically correct way of referring to females of certain species

Actually the correct term for a female dragon is Drakaina, which is the feminine form of the Greek word Drakon meaning "She-Dragon."

Dragoness is, at best, a lazy way to differentiate between a male or female dragon, which is amusing when you consider you could differentiate them by using "he/she."

>> No.37536678

>>37536491
>>37536649
>>37536651
Google says it's grammatically correct when referring to distinctively female nouns, particularly nouns that end in -er or -or though it's falling out of use in american english,

On a semi related note, apparently things like devouress or dwelleress used to be common words

>> No.37536695

>>37536651
>correct term

Ya'll are being silly. This is fiction.

>> No.37536721

>>37536678
>particularly nouns that end in -er or -or though it's falling out of use in american english,

I didn't know dragon or Giant ended in -er or -or.

>> No.37536736

>>37536721
>particularly
Reading comprehension isn't your strong point I take it

>> No.37536832

>>37536736

It's a dying word ending that's very uncommon in words that don't end in -er or -or.

There's absolutely no reason to try and push "dragoness" when it doesn't really make sense for the noun unless you're *really really insistent* on using it, and if you are that's... Kind of weird, really.

It doesn't help how every time I see a post that insists on it being "dragoness" or "giantess" it's usually in relation to smut/vore.

>> No.37536913

>>37536832
Meh, I like it cause it's less awkward than putting female dragon

Like saying mare instead of female horse

>> No.37536975

>>37536832
In other words it's a completely valid word form but you are a faggot who doesn't like it so you're going to sperg. Good to know. Read something other than the Internet. You may learn dome new words.

>> No.37537052

>>37536437
According to what I recall, dragons don't enter senescence (old age decline) usually, though occasionally they do for a few centuries at the end. (after millenia of life)

They don't get old and weak; every day of age proceeds to make a dragon more powerful, tougher, deadlier, and generally more sexy- for a dragon, what's sex appeal other than power?
They do stop being fertile/virile/otherwise interested in natural reproduction eventually though, maybe 2/3rds of the way through their natural life.

>> No.37537095

>>37536913
>Like saying mare instead of female horse

Brah I'm perfectly fine with saying mare instead of female horse because yeah, female horse sounds awkward as fuck. Same with saying "female fox" instead of "vixen" or "female dog" instead of "bitch."

But dragons, they don't feel like these creatures that *need* distinct gender-specific names (Drakaina is already taken by that creepy Pathfinder pregnancy monster anyway.) A dragon is a dragon, and discovering the gender of one shouldn't change how you view one beyond what pronoun to use.

That's why dragoness irks me, it feels like someone trying really hard to make it a game-changer that the big mean dragon is actually a female, which while that certainly can happen (eggs and shape-shifting for example) almost every iteration I've seen that used it ends with someone getting shoved up the vagina, or insisting on a character to mate/get eaten by the still-dragon lady.

It's a word that feels unnecessary that has quickly become associated with smut, is what I'm saying.

>>37536975

Just because it's a valid word form does not mean it's acceptable for common use.

"Verily, thine drapes are most fine, m'lady" is a valid sentence, but try saying it outside of a Shakespearean play without people giving you strange looks.

>> No.37537180

>>37537095
>Just because it's a valid word form does not mean it's acceptable for common use.
The difference between using one word and using a entire sentence of them.

It's like saying you have fine drapes. See people still know what it means. It's like saying he-dragon and she-dragon. Heir or heiress. Baron, or baroness. In other words you are just a sperg faggot with no higher grammatical learning.

>> No.37537196

>>37537052
>They do stop being fertile/virile/otherwise interested in natural reproduction eventually though, maybe 2/3rds of the way through their natural life.
There are probably ways around that for a massive magic power lizard

>>37537095
>It's a word that feels unnecessary that has quickly become associated with smut, is what I'm saying.
I get what you're saying, though it still feels like a valid word for me in the same way lioness or duchess does, plus -ess is sorta regal and dragons have that same feeling for me, like they should be regarded like you would nobility unless you want trouble

>> No.37537389

>>37537180
>The difference between using one word and using a entire sentence of them.

Okay, let me rephrase.

"How are you doing today, milady?"

>>37537196
>plus -ess is sorta regal and dragons have that same feeling for me

I've always got that feel from dragons too and I can see where you're coming from... I don't know, I guess our ideas diverge where I see dragons as being these gender-neutral powerhouses rather than conforming to traditional gender pronouns. A female dragon is every bit as voracious, cunning, cruel and mighty as a male dragon, so to differentiate between the two any more than "okay it's a she, not a he" feels odd.

>> No.37537478

>>37537389
>so to differentiate between the two any more than "okay it's a she, not a he" feels odd.
That is literally all it does and yet you go out of your way to be a douche about it.

>How are you doing today, milady

Correct you can use it. But it's more along the lines of saying maam.

>> No.37537493

>>37537389
>I've always got that feel from dragons too and I can see where you're coming from
Yeah, half the reason I like the term is that it seems like most dragons would see themselves are royalty so being respectful like that would be a good idea

>A female dragon is every bit as voracious, cunning, cruel and mighty as a male dragon, so to differentiate between the two any more than "okay it's a she, not a he" feels odd.
And calling it the male term when you have a female one seems like a bad idea in this case

>> No.37537737

>>37537196
>There are probably ways around that for a massive magic power lizard
Certainly. But if they no longer care, why bother with them?

>> No.37537784

>>37537737
I thought it was, they stop being fertile not no longer care about it

>> No.37537996

>>37537784
Do old women stop caring about whether you call them a man or not? No.

>> No.37538139

>>37537996
No I meant, they don't stop caring about sex/reproduction, they just stop being fertile

>> No.37538188

>>37538139
Fair enough.

>> No.37538575

>>37536110
I doubt if a dragon wants godhood it want to eat it's hoard when it's smallest

>> No.37538711

>>37538575
Whatever you're trying to say there, you're wrong.

>> No.37538789

>>37538711
God ritual requires the dragon to eat all it's hoard but the hoard must be at least 100,000gp, I'm saying a dragon probably doesn't want to get rid of most of it's wealth before it goes for godhood

>> No.37538941

>>37513444
My personal favorite way to present a dragon's hoard is for it to be eclectic. Sure, there are mountains of gold, plenty of jewels, ancient scepters and swords, etc. But there are also things that don't seem to fit the concept of "wealth." Maybe a handkerchief, a ring barely worth the gold it's made of, a dress that's been damaged and repaired a thousand times, or a single copper coin seemingly in a place of reverence.

A dragon should want to hoard valuable things, but not just things of fiscal value. Taking the entire contents of a merchant's vault is certainly capturing something of value. Without that revenue, the merchant's business will fail and he'll have to start over from square one, maybe less if he still owes taxes on some of that gold. But is all that gold really more valuable than the last copper coin of a starving homeless man or the wedding ring of widower who refuses to remarry and whose wife, dead and buried, still wears the other ring. The merchant's loss would certainly be great, but that measly coin is all the money the homeless man has in the entire world. The merchant still knows people in the business who may help him recover, but that ring is the widower's most valuable possession, and without it he has nothing of his late wife but memories.

A dragon's hoard should be a collection of history, but it should also be an archive of every person that dragon has ever robbed.

>> No.37540675

>>37538941
I think it's more likely to be how the dragon values it, not how who they took if from values it, (unless it was a hated foe or a very sadistic dragon)

>> No.37540864

>>37538941
>a homeless man's only copper coin
Eh. Just sounds edgy.

>> No.37541099

>>37540864
Yeah, that sorta thing makes the dragon look like a simple (and pointlessly cruel) bully at best, a dragon is more like to value due to how it sees it, not how who he took it from sees it

>> No.37541245

>>37540864
Perhaps there are dragons that hoard edgyness.

>> No.37541306

>>37538789
why not? with godhood it has all the time and power to rebuild and go larger, or find people in the not owning of things

>> No.37541401

>>37541306
I just assume most dragons for the sake of pride if nothing else would want to gorge themselves on everything they've amassed when they begin to propel themselves into godhood rather than force themselves to give up a good chunk of their hoard (and they'd honestly, truly, have to believe what they gave up isn't part of their hoard anymore)

I just don't see most dragons tolerating their hoard getting cut down that much

>> No.37541665

>>37515030
Considering Smaug's horde was the entire work of a legendary Dorf Fort, the size is not outrageous.
However I refuse to watch the movies so I do not know how it was depicted there.

>> No.37541880

>>37535635
New fetish acquired

>> No.37542110

>>37541245

>> No.37542115

>>37541880
You may like the last thread
Particularly from here on
https://archive.moe/tg/thread/37392796/#q37444758

>> No.37542134

>>37540864
>>37541245
>>37538941
Maybe the dragon took it during his teenage emo phase.

>A dragon's hoard should be a collection of history
Not only a history of the world, but a history of the dragon's own beliefs throughout time.

>> No.37542186

>>37513444
Usually a lot of fucking sheep and the shepherds to watch the flock. Or whatever that dragon's favoured reliable food is.

>younger or unambitious dragons in the setting are often associated with the usual piles of gold and treasure
>but that's due to banks and treasuries paying them room and board to just sit on the money so teleporting mages and thieves don't get bright ideas

>> No.37542649

>>37541665

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYOJZm0FXPw

>> No.37545003

>>37542115
>Steel dragon achieves godhood
>uses space-warping magic to cover its scales in microscopic human settlements
>the dragon just loves humans and human cities, and wants to be near as many as possible
>after a few centuries there are more people living on the dragon than living in the rest of the universe

>> No.37545171

>>37545003
>Humans living on the dragon
>Not the dragon becoming a new universe specifically for humans

>> No.37545326

a dragon is pretty much able to march at a kingdom and breathe fire at everyone in its way until its gets what it wants from them.

that's not how you do it, though. it's meaner, cleverer, more magical, and long lived enough to take a nap and wait for everyone it hates to die of old age. a dragon can conceivably acquire all the riches of a civilization by fucking waiting.

the otherworldly amount of riches it takes to sleep in is just an otherworldly amount of riches. when you said "more money than every human in the world" you were not at the high end of the scale.

>> No.37546412 [SPOILER] 

>>37545171
Definitions get a little fuzzy at that level, but I imagine a dragon would still want to be a dragon, and a steel dragon would still want a form that lets it interact with people at a one to one level.

>you finally think to ask if there's a special meaning to the markings on her scales
>she conjures up a magnifying glass and invites you to see for yourself
>tiny landscapes filled with tiny people

>> No.37546485

When I was a kid I once played an adventure where me and my friends were warped into a Dragon's "hoard" which was a city full of creatures and humans and golems and lots of wealth and magic items and such, which were probably other things the dragon had trapped or threw in there over the years, and no one knew they had been trapped or what had happened to them, they just went on with their lives.

That was cool

>our faces when we stepped out of the inn and we were no longer in the town we entered

>> No.37547407

>>37546412
>I imagine a dragon would still want to be a dragon, and a steel dragon would still want a form that lets it interact with people
It can still be a dragon just massive one with a plane inside it
And gods have avatars don't they?

>> No.37547680

>>37534650
Anum-La is mai waifu

>> No.37547798

>>37513444
The hoard is not just a personal wealth but rather a "national treasure". It is shared within the clan as the symbol of longevity and greatness.
The larger the hoard grows, the stronger their "nation" is.

>> No.37548156

>>37547798
Didn't even read that all the way, and I started imagining Nicholas Cage as a dragon

>> No.37548165

>>37546412
That kinda seems like a bad idea to me, like a random murderhobo hits her with an ax or a fireball it probably won't hurt her but how many of her little people would it kill?
Not to mention if she rolls over in her sleep or something

Just keeping them inside her seems like a better idea to me

>> No.37548770 [SPOILER] 

>>37548165
I see a problem with that
>Hey human, you have served me faithfully for years, I made a paradise like demiplane and I'm looking for people to inhabit it
>This is the portal get in
>What? Is something the matter? Hop in, you've earned it
>...
>Eat you? No, it's a portal I swear, I just put the demiplane in the safest place I could think of
>...
>...
>I AM YOUR GODDESS GET YOUR DELICIOUS ASS IN MY BELLY
*Inside*
Huh, guess she was telling the truth...

>> No.37549384

>>37548165
For a being with divine ranks I don't think it would be difficult to maintain a forcefield just above her scales. When the body is literally made of divine energy, cutting through the outer shell is no easier or harder than cutting all the way to the core.

>> No.37549427

>>37514844
Forget the hoard of sex toys, this dragon is my nigga.

>> No.37549583

>>37548770
I don't know if this is worse or better than having to go "spelunking" to get to the portal

>>37549384
Still seems like an unnecessary risk, gods can be hurt in D&D, and there are some very nasty things that hate gods
Plus the deeper in they are the more of the dragon goddess has to be cut through to harm them so even if something can get through, it'll still take a bit before they can hurt any of her humans

>> No.37549825

I used to think of dragons as valuing gemstones more than gold. I read a thing once where they were described as having soft, sticky bellies, and that they lay on their treasure hoard partly to create an armored layer of gold and gemstones over this weak point in their otherwise nigh-impenetrable scaly skin. Since gold is a soft metal, I imagined gemstones, especially the harder ones, as being more valuable. But this is probably based on some dumb ideas I had as a child. Over time, I've gone more to the idea of them just habitually hoarding valuables. I think, however, it's always fun to consider types of dragon outside of the European drakes. Perhaps a quetzalcoatl-like dragon may hoard the bones of sacrifices, or maybe a little farther north the dragons could treasure wampum, or maybe a burrowing dragon of some sort may hoard gold and other metals in an ore state.

Although, I still like the idea of dragons hoarding simply as a way to armor themselves. Perhaps in a modern/future setting, the dragons could hoard high-tech armor plates and things like that. Maybe a future dragon's hoard would look like a warehouse of sci-fi technology, and dragons would clad themselves in the latest of armor technology, strap jet engines to themselves, etc. just to be stronger, faster, and harder to kill. Not because they even actually plan on attacking anyone, but simply because it's habitual to them. They'd visit the grocery in body armor, carry stinger missile launchers wherever they went, and generally act paranoid all over the place simply because that's what dragons do.

>> No.37549962

>>37549583
A god's also got to advertise and for most people it's a better sales pitch than "paradise is in my belly, no really it is".

>> No.37550561

>>37528522
As far as I know, Middle Earth is flat (or used to be untill Eru made it round), which means that it probably didn't undergo differentiation of hevay elements Earth underwent shortly after formation (when elements heavier than the bulk composition of the still molten Earth, including iron and any treace elements that particion into iron sank into the center of the Earth), so they could have a lot more gold than we have.

Fun fact: all gold on the surface of the planet (and in the crust and probably in the mantle as well) has come to Earth via meteorites, which can contain small amounts of gold. All the original gold has sunked into the center of the Erath and is therefore inaccessible.

>> No.37550624

>>37549962
In the last thread the dragon goddess got around that problem why not telling folks where it is

>> No.37550736

>>37536651
Drakaina, in PF at least, refers to a completely diffierent mosnter, though. It's the constantly pregnant demon (demoness?) thing that impregnates people with her spawn, alien style (complete with them bursting out of the victim's chest).

>>37536678
devouress (or eateress) is the word for succubus in my native language. Not really used for anything else, and not really used as such all that often these dasy eighter.

>> No.37550764

>>37536651
Drakaina, in PF at least, refers to a completely diffierent mosnter, though. It's the constantly pregnant demon (demoness?) thing that impregnates people with her spawn, alien style (complete with them bursting out of the victim's chest).

>>37536678
devouress (or eateress) is the word for succubus in my native language. Not really used for anything else, and not really used as such all that often these days eighter.

>> No.37551840

>>37532712
Cool. Didn't know this.

>> No.37551968

>>37545326
If only there was a longer dragon themed "chose your own adventure" like choice of dragon.

>> No.37552054

Maybe it's a little cliche, but I always do picture the mountains of glittering gold and silver with the occasional dotting gem of ruby, emerald and sapphire, pearls strung and crowns, scepters and the like. A cave, torches about the sides and faces given by the dragon's underlings, most the cave even furnished by these same folk- although long gone and enjoyed. Lo, this is for a dragon of immense wealth, prestige, and might, something corrupt and noble, the epitome of greed and power bound the naturalistic beauty of flight and grace. Indeed it would be a wonder to take in, and a glorious bounty to claim, and while stereotypical as it may be, that's the true beauty in it all.

>tl;dr stereotypical dragon lair

>> No.37552165

>>37552054
Its funny because out of the two dragons with hoards from myth and the big one from fantasy that inspired all this only one had a cave. And he put the gold in there before his greed literally turned him into a dragon.

>> No.37552463

>>37550624

Don't you guys think you're getting a little too deep into the smut?

I mean, dragon-vore has become so endemic to the creature that any thread featuring dragons will inevitably result in someone trying to discuss a totally-real or totally-cool scenario involving someone shoving someone else somewhere they don't belong.

It happened with Minotaur Civilization, it happened with that dumb Succubus-turned-Goddess, and it's even happening (albeit slowly) with Elves.

>> No.37552628

>>37552463
Elves were the first newfag, we're just coming full circle now

>> No.37552667

>>37552463
Wait, elves? Must've missed that one. But for what purpose? I mean dragon-vore does make sense since dragons are big monsters that often eat people. And with succubi it sort of makes sence since they eat souls, and going from eating people's souls to eating people in't a huge lep of logic. But elf-vore? Why the hell would that be a thing.

Oh, wait. Because /tg/ is full of pervs.

>> No.37552683

>>37552463
>Minotaur Civilization
Elaborate

>> No.37552740

>>37552683
Cowsmen and females. Take a wild guess.

>> No.37552779

>>37550624
Mind you in said thread she also sent them there while rampaging and devouring her entire "hoard" (namely her cult, temples, and everything else she owned) repeating the ritual that granted her divinity to increase it

>>37552667
>Wait, elves?
Dwarf fortress, elves are cannibals in there

>> No.37552787

>>37531879
No nat 1 roll to save against crying like a little bitch.

I'm disappointed.

>> No.37552806

>>37552683
It was both the one of the best and one of the worst things /tg/ ever made. It is hated and loved for the same reasons by different people.

Personally I quite liked The Hoover Lands.

>> No.37552814

>>37552740
I want details, or a link, that'll do too

>> No.37552946

>>37552814
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/26425217/#p26433198

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/26463769/

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/27100104/

>> No.37552963

>>37552667

It's not Elves being into vore, it's the association that Elves = Sluts and Rape-bait.

For the longest time that was what they were seen as, but gradually times have changed and more people seem to be turned off by the idea. It happened with Minotaur Civ and it happened with that Succubus, it's going to happen to Dragon-Vore/"Spelunking."

Probably not though, since the vast majority of people deep into that are furries and we know how *they* handle people questioning their fetishes.

>>37552814

Once upon a time /tg/ posited the question; how do we make a cool Minotaur based civilization? Initially things turned out great as people discussed the implications of a massive herbivore society...

... Until someone brought up the apparent need to discuss what characteristics they valued for fertility, whereupon everyone pounced on the idea that lactation - specifically, how much/quality of breastmilk - was what they valued. Entire threads devolved into discussing increasingly elaborate rituals based around exchanging breast milk, or breast feeding mates, or a multitude of other things until some anons sat back and pointed out the Civilization was a retarded smut fest, and so it died.

That's kind of how I feel for every dragon thread that gets posted, since they *always* devolve into vore or anthro-on-human action.

>> No.37553163

>>37552963
>... Until someone brought up the apparent need to discuss what characteristics they valued for fertility, whereupon everyone pounced on the idea that lactation - specifically, how much/quality of breastmilk - was what they valued. Entire threads devolved into discussing increasingly elaborate rituals based around exchanging breast milk, or breast feeding mates, or a multitude of other things until some anons sat back and pointed out the Civilization was a retarded smut fest, and so it died.
Just about breast milk?
Not as fun, lewd and fetish stuff isn't as fun as it can be when it's the whole thing, it's a garnish or ingredient you add in to make !!fun!!

>> No.37553266

>>37552963
I don't know. We did pretty good on the bank of draco yesterday.

>> No.37555336

>>37552963
Its just a phase
A couple years ago there were constant dragonfucking threads, then they died off for the most part, now vore/spelunking in in vogue
Eventually enough people will get tired of it and it'll fade away again

>> No.37556788

>>37513444
I read a Wonder Woman comic where dragons ate treasure to increase their power and have always liked that idea. Sort of like the godhood ritual idea but just for basic substance.

>> No.37556846

>>37556788
Well, that is what happens when a dragon gets older. It gets more powerful. Full stop. Stronger, tougher, deadlier, sexier, more intelligent, more charismatic, everything. (Dex stays the same.)

>> No.37557140

>>37519723
>that means that

no, it really doesn't.

>> No.37557231

What is a human were to use the dragon god hood ritual? I'm sure I could find some small items that equal up to around 100k gold and make them my horde. Then eat them.

Would ascend to god hood then?

Luke what is a single diamond worth? Do I haveto have the entire horde Insideme at one time?

>> No.37557261

>>37557231
Damn autocorrect, and damn 4chan taking three minutes to post

>> No.37557380

>>37557231
You'd probably die.

But I mean, I'd kinda assume magical rituals for dragons are tailored based on the participant being, you know, a dragon. Maybe if you were a halfdragon or dragonblooded sorcerer of sufficient power?

A hoard probably doesn't have similar meaning to a human. But at the end of the day, the real issue is how magic works in your setting.

>> No.37557438

>>37557140
I'm pretty sure it does, larger creatures take a penalty to dex to represent them having trouble manipulating smaller objects but all dragons keep theirs at 10 no matter the size

>>37557231
The prestige class has
>Race: Any true dragon.
>Base Attack Bonus: +30.
>Feats: Draconic Knowledge, Fast Healing, Great Fortitude, Improved Speed, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes.
Requirements in addition to eating the hoard, if you can meet them then sure, why not?

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