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[ERROR] No.36952176 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So is it true Seoni was originally a man who transformed himself into a white-haired chick with magic?

Given the weird shit Paizo put in their official products it wouldn't surprise me if that were true.

>> No.36952192

no shes a gypsy and has gypsy magic sorcery no joke

>> No.36952212

is it really that strange in a world with magic, monsters, meddling gods, UFOs, and other planes of existence?

>> No.36952238

>and if you think genderqueers are strange, consider it's a game about vampires

>> No.36952256

>a game where you can KILL GODS

>> No.36952333


I know if I had magic that could turn me into a 10/10 chick I'd go for it.

>> No.36952354

Why don't the gypsies around here look so good?

>> No.36952474

They're mundane gypsies

>> No.36952589


Depends, does she have a dick or not?

>> No.36952607

With that outfit? Doubt it, otherwise everyone would know it.

>> No.36952622

I don't think so, but about 60% of the female non demonic NPC's in the wrath of the righteous were formerly male lesbians who liked to fuck lesbians. And this had absolutely nothing to do with plot or character development at all, it was just there as background info which nobody would find out except the GM. bravo paizo

>> No.36952625

You know.

You have a point there.

I'm like 90% hetero, and I'd be completely OK with shiftchanging to a 10/10 chick if I could.

Just because I could. Because wizard.

I mean, what's the point of wizardry if you won't break, at the very least, social mores? In the end, you are betting for PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER, being too much of a prude/wuss to start changing your own body sounds like being a spineless coward to me.

>> No.36952636

Because americans think gypsies look like Esmeralda from the hunchback of notre dame and not homeless people with the personal hygiene of a sewer rat?

>> No.36952641

to be fair that sounds like the sort of thing the characters would find out stupid all the same but its not just the dm who will know

>> No.36952666

That's insulting to rats. They wash themselves six times a day, making them the cleanest rodents.

>> No.36952679

To be fair, she does dress like a man who turned himself into a woman would dress.

By which I mean to say she looks like a slut.

>> No.36952683

Wrath of the Righteous AP has an NPC that was born male & took an elixir to become female for his/her girlfriend. Mebbe that's what your thinking of?

>> No.36952717

This. I'd be someone I'd fuck, if I could.
Also relentless shlicking at the mirror.

>> No.36952747

This was the most common use of magic in Norse legends.
Well, that, and transforming yourself into a wolf bitch for similar purposes.

>> No.36952757

You mean 25%. Another 25% are "No, silly, I'm really 200 years old, I only look 16!"

>> No.36952758

Sewer rats, on the other hand, live in sewers and wash themselves with filthy, sewer covered hands.

Also, what does a gypsy yell when drowning in a river?
"help, I don't know how to wash myself!"

>> No.36952777

Or a mare.

>> No.36952806

Actually, it sounds like someone who is fine if not proud of his body, unlike the psychically deranged individual.

>> No.36952822




>This was the most common use of magic in Norse legends.
>Well, that, and transforming yourself into a wolf bitch for similar purposes.

No it wasn't. Loki turned into a mare once and there are vague allusions to other gods changing into female form, but nothing concrete.

>> No.36952823

>psychically deranged individual

yeah, those are the worst. they usually make your head explode or teek sharp objects into you.

>> No.36952828


Or burn down the school on prom night.

>> No.36952844


You see and when Necromancers follow that same line of thought, they are called evil and monstrous.

Fuck the bigoted queersexual normativity we live in.

>> No.36952859

>With that outfit? Doubt it, otherwise everyone would know it.

She could be good at tucking.

>> No.36952871 [DELETED] 

I wouldn't blame him. I might knock his choice, though. White hair, all that useless flesh? Terrible.

Everyone knows shapeshifting magic should be a one way ticket to loliville.

>> No.36952903


No, Seoni's a woman. Her character sheet outright states her history.

I'll note, however, that with actual magic, all those weird gender-confused people would be less of an issue. At the very least, they'd get far less sympathy.

> "Oh, you're a woman in a man's body? Here's a potion of Gender Change!"
> "What's that? It isn't all you thought it'd be cracked up to be? Wow, you're a literal faggot, aren't you?"

Seriously, say goodbye to gender-identity problems!

>> No.36952906

Because gypsies are to Romani as niggers are to black people: The worst aspects turned up to 11, ruining things for the rest of us.

Romani girls can be hot as hell (they tend to run between "south Italian" to "Northern Indian" in general looks) and fuck like tigers. That said, they can also go from zero to bitch in a blink of an eye.

>> No.36952913

No one's THAT good.

>> No.36952924

makes sense

>> No.36952927


Bag of holding cock-holster.

>> No.36952933

I'm not talking about their myths. I'm talking about how accusations of using magic to turn into a woman and have sex with dudes were so rampant, that it was specifically noted as one of the examples of fighting words. If you used magic, it was assumed the first thing you'd do was regularly transform yourself into a woman to experience the pleasure of being comed inside.

>> No.36952941

citation needed
not because i dont belive you but because i would like to read more into this

>> No.36952964

Unless they are female necromancers, then they can use their power to maintain eternal beauty.

Yes, I know it was a joke on your part. No one loves beautiful men though, only beautiful women.

>> No.36952968

Fucking gypo clown comming to shit up the thread
do you have any cute single sisters?

>> No.36952995

>not coming from a family of at least 10 juvenile delinquents

Just don't bring anything you value to the date.

>> No.36953022


Considering that mainstream media is chock full of beautiful Vampire men, while there is only a handful of female Necromancer, I wonder what your definition of beautiful men is.

>> No.36953040


I know it's wikipedia, but Sinfyoetli's scolding of Gudmund is a good example, what with calling him a witch who used illusions and said that he pregnant with puppies

The thing is, it's more that magic was a woman's thing, so a man who practiced magic dressed as a woman, and possibly had sex with men, as part of the rituals. Because of the whole "it's magic" thing, they were considered to actually become women. Apparently, animal rituals were involved in this too with the whole "becoming a pregnant animal" thing.

>> No.36953046


This is true. And all the "nordic spellcasters" that populate the internet forget that doing magic, for a man, is considered the epitome of faggotry.

>> No.36953056 [DELETED] 

Forgot my pic...

>> No.36953102

eh i dont mind wikipedia at all you just look at there sources thanks anon

>> No.36953220

>Hunting deities are usually female in indo-european polytheistic religions. Odin is a hunting god
>Magic is for women in Norse culture. Odin knows all the magic
>Valkyries are female deities that guide the souls of the dead to the afterlife, Odin also guides souls of the dead to the afterlife.

Odin/Wodan confirmed for reverse trap.

>> No.36953236

oh shit your right

>> No.36953256

oh shit

so that beard is FAKE

>> No.36953260


I have seen a comic about this but it's pretty damn NSFW

>> No.36953267

your allowed to link to it

>> No.36953273


Here's the kicker boys:
Germanic and Norse warriors liked to refer to themselves as Odinborn/Wodanborn

as in born from odin.

They knew. they fucking knew.

>> No.36953274


They most likely didn't imply any actual sex-changing was happening. Just that a guy practicing magic was a faggot who "took it like a woman" (IE had sex with dudes).

>> No.36953276

also that reminds me i have not checks oglaf in a while

>> No.36953284

holy shit

>> No.36953293

*checked oglaf

>> No.36953394


>Odin is actually a QT trickster goddess who dresses up as a ragged old one-eyed motherfucker

Wellp, new headcanon acquired.

>> No.36953430


>> No.36953455

it doesn't go anywhere, we're digging a hole and saying it was there the whole time.

>> No.36953466

>Female Vikings are buried with weapons
>Yet it was a rare thing to actually encounter female warriors on the battlefield

>> No.36953487


Didn't they have the thing that if no menfolk were around they were supposed to pick up the sword and defend hearth and home?

Granted, nobody was fucking insane enough to counter-attack the Vikings, but...

">All right, Lord Hastings. The Vikings are raping and pillaging our lands again."
>"Yes, but that means there's none of them back home."
>"Are you thinking what I'm thinking?"

>> No.36953490

No. MtF Trans slot already filled by the Shaman iconic (They tend to have 1 of each like how Bi-female slot was filled by Merisiel and Lesbian by Kyra).

The real question is whether Damiel a FtM.

>> No.36953517

I need to check what battle it was, but after some muslim victory (I think it might have been Turks attacking a castle with a heavy Varangian population) on stripping the dead of their armour many were found to be women. So it wasn't just a theoretical thing.

>> No.36953563

How is Odin a god of hunting? I'm a Scandinavian who's pretty into asatru and I have never heard of that association before. If I were to pick a norse god of hunting I'd say I'll and while he did rule in Odins stead for a decade he is not Odin.

That said both thor and Odin has gone in drag before an loki has shapeshifted into females several times. Furthermore magic (seidr) in norse mythology was a very feminine thing so Odin and loki as magic users were seen as intrinsically feminine, so I'd be very open to odin and loki switching genders as they see fit.

>> No.36953614

>How is Odin a god of hunting?

Well he isn't, Odin is the God of magic, war and death. However in his role as death god he was the leader of the wild hunt in some regions of europe.

>> No.36953617


Loki also accuses Odin specifically of turning female in the Lokasenna, as well as plenty of other accusations of perversity aimed at the gods in general.

>> No.36953641

Well it's debated how much basis it has in reality but there must be a reason the term shield maiden originated in norse sagas. There's also songs like Stolt Signhild in which Signhild defends her brother against his seven enemies, so yes I think it's safe to say if shits on fire norse women were expected to take up arms.

>> No.36953646

>full of beautiful Vampire fags

>> No.36953686

I wouldn't be surprized if there's a kind of magic you could apply to the body part, like enchanting your cock/pussy so it could swap between cock and pussy at will

>> No.36953696

Don't let the name of the wild hunt deceive you I think it's more comparable to the Greek Bachanalia, that is a traveling party in which hunting was just a minor aspect. If you remember the elven parties in the woods from the hobbit book I believe that was heavily inspired by the wild hunt. The wild hunt was also heavily tied to the norse yule tradition.

I think it's more as his aspect as king of the gods that he was the leader of the wild hunt than as his role as god of death.

>> No.36953702


Just use a Thong of Holding.

>> No.36953714

Man the lokesenna is such a great story, revealing all the gods' dirty laundry

>> No.36953722

But then you don't get to pick between a pussy and a cock when you fuck

>> No.36953740

Why would you use your magic to turn yourself into a woman when you can turn into musclebound hercules, shoving a huge dick into helpless monstergirl? While being a full caster.

>> No.36953753

Better idea for an adventurer who wants to trap it up,
A pair of cock rings enchanted with gate
Slip one on your cock and you won't have a bulge cause you left your cock at home

>> No.36953757

That seems like a good idea until the rogue steals your cock and decides she can put it to better use than you ever could

>> No.36953783

>Cock thief at large
>An infamous criminal wanted throughout the lands for breaking into people's houses, slipping on an enchanted cock ring and stealing their cocks for her personal use
I could see the wanted posters now

This is your new BBEG
Wat do?

>> No.36953790

>Romani girls can be hot as hell

Nice try, they're at best 6/10, usually 4/10.

>and fuck like tigers.

They're mostly talk.

>That said, they can also go from zero to bitch in a blink of an eye.

It's more like, they can occasionally go back to zero and remain in the bitch zone most of the time.

Shouldn't you be out pickpocketing?

>> No.36953800 [DELETED] 

>useless flesh
That's not useless flesh, it signalizes her reproductive fitness.

>> No.36953901

Actually, a plot for my last game was my wizard losing a cock. The cock-thief was a pretty barmaid, serving a warlock. She was actually a golem.
It was pretty fun.

>> No.36953912 [DELETED] 

Useless. Flesh.

>> No.36954222

Odin was always a strange one

>> No.36954368

If that's true, who's the gay-male and who's the bi-male?

>> No.36954434

The cavalier and the fighter respectively I think.

>> No.36954469

I thought that was like 1 character?

>> No.36954480

>they are called evil and monstrous.
There called Evil Monstrous because 9/10 they use their power to kill other people and take shit over.

No one would care if people just animated zombies en masse to jerk off to massive orgies.

>> No.36954618

Loki outright said he was a faggot.

>> No.36954672

>a rare thing to actually encounter female warriors on the battlefield

Sure, it was easy to tell the difference between "woman" and "beardless youth" when you closely examined the armor-clad motherfucker hacking at you with an axe.

>> No.36954713

there was one you overly dramatic nancy

>> No.36954740 [DELETED] 

Lolicons are useless flesh.

>> No.36954857

That potion costs like 1,000 gold, though, so most people who wanted it would still be fucked. Even low-level adventurers would be loath to part with that much gold just so one party member could resolve some personal issues. So most people who would be making and using the potion are nobility, and they wouldn't be using it to become what they feel like inside, but to increase the range of profitable political marriages. Suddenly you can marry anyone off to anyone and produce heirs!

>> No.36954906

Now I want to play a flamboyantly gay nordic spellcaster.

>> No.36954989


It is a good adventuring goal tho, raise 1K gold to get a vagina.

>> No.36955030

Just try explaining that to the party's accountant. "Okay, let's see... we could get a Wand of Cure Light Wounds so none of us die... or we could get this asshole a vagina. Show of hands?"

>> No.36955054

>"Well look at that, the vote is almost unanimous. Sorry, but it looks like you're going to have to become a woman the old fashioned way."

>> No.36955061

Not reveal yet but it's speculate to be Alian or Ezren (gay) and Seltyiel (Bi/Pan)

>> No.36955126

Your party forces you to "re-invest" your loot back into the party? You're getting scammed, mate

>> No.36955165

No, he's making a wise investment choice.

>> No.36955202

>I'm like 90% hetero, and I'd be completely OK with shiftchanging to a 10/10 chick if I could.
Even if it was permanent? Or at least made switching back to male be only ever a temporary thing?

>(They tend to have 1 of each like how Bi-female slot was filled by Merisiel and Lesbian by Kyra
Isn't that disgustingly tokenistic?

>> No.36955230

Not that guy, but yes. Ultimately I don't have a ton of attachment to this particular machine, and the idea of getting to experience a whole new set of biological parameters seems interesting. There's shit I could do as a female, especially an attractive female, that is not possible for me as a male.

Admittedly, I'd also be down for Deus Ex style robot arms. I'm really very unattached to the human form as a whole.

>> No.36955261

I'm pretty sure one of designers pretty much forced everyone to agree to the 3:1 female to male Iconic ratio. So yes.

>> No.36955267

>like you're going to have to become a woman the old fashioned way."
>the old fashioned way

post something more creative than crossdressing.

>> No.36955274

That's how we did it, Anon. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

Only exceptions we made were an allowance to each person for smallish trinkets and the like. It's how my character kept a comb to give to the qt necromancer.

>> No.36955276

It involves a sharp blade.

>> No.36955295

>From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
Your party was a communist commune?

>> No.36955303

not him but
>Even if it was permanent?

>Or at least made switching back to male be only ever a temporary thing?
Almost certainly, a yes if I can turn into males other than my old self

Spamming reincarnate?

>> No.36955306

Communism works when it's 10 or less people, all of whom like and trust each other. It's applying it on an administrative level where things go to shit.

>> No.36955313

Fucking Rose Bailey.

That shit is just too on the fucking nose.

>> No.36955317

>all of whom like and trust each other
And who have the same goals. It won't work when one wants to travel the world and another wants to stay at home, and the cost of rent and airfare needs to be figured out.

>> No.36955336

Why would an adventurer want to stay home? Isn't that why they're called ADVENTURErs?

>> No.36955341

>And who have the same goals.
You can get away with different but compatible goals too.

>> No.36955353

My lawful good paladin/abjurant champion and the lawful neutral busty necromancer convinced everyone else to going along with such a model. We all had the same quest, after all, and only a knave would oppose an orderly, just disposition of wealth.

>> No.36955357

>caring about genders
>not caring about becoming somekind of horrible monstrosity that paralyzes everyone who gazes upon you so you could steal their shit.

>> No.36955388

Dunno if it's been mentioned yet, but there technically is a transgender PF iconic: Shadra, the dwarven shaman. Basically took alchemical "draughts" (Hormones) to go MtF. Author for her backstory is an MtF, and also wants several of the current iconics to be made canon bi and/or gay.

inb4 slippery slope

>> No.36955420

>and also wants several of the current iconics to be made canon bi and/or gay
I sound like the biggest asshole right now, but seriously? Can't they just make NEW charecters? That's almost like going back and rewriting all of shakespere's plays to include gays and transexuals because they weren't diverse enough. Like, it doesn't help that the author is MtF as well. It just seems like they want to push it onto everyone.

>> No.36955421

>non-Evil Necromancer
Hilarious. But I resent the notion that everyone getting a fair share is inherently lawful. I can easily a chaotic band of equal individuals splitting the loot evenly, though they might be a little more unorganized about getting the right items to the right people.

>> No.36955438

>I'm pretty sure one of designers pretty much forced everyone to agree to the 3:1 female to male Iconic ratio. So yes.

...? Hang on...

Okay, just counted all the classes and alternate classes from the Player's Guide, Advanced Player's Guide, Advanced Class Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat.

In total there are 16 females and 15 males. So, no, there is not a 3:1 gender gap in Pathfinder iconics. It is slightly in favor of females over males, but only by one, and since there's an uneven number of classes that pretty much HAD to happen.

For those who care...

Player's Guide
>Male: Lem, Valeros, Sajan, Harsk, and Ezren.
>Female: Amiri, Kyra, Lini, Seelah, Merisiel, and Seroni

Advanced Player's Guide
>Male: Damiel, Alain, Balazar
>Female: Imrijka, Alahazra, Feiya

Ultimate Magic/Ultimate Combat
>Male: Seltyiel, Hayato
>Female: Lirianne, Reiko

Advanced Class Guide
>Male: Crowe, Quinn, Hakon, Zadim
>Female: Enora, Kess, Adowyn, Shardra, Jirelle

>> No.36955443

>there technically is a transgender PF iconic: Shadra, the dwarven shaman
Paizo promised there was an iconic for each of LGB and T ages ago, so there needs to be another trans iconic for them to have kept their word, out of the originals.

>Basically took alchemical "draughts" (Hormones) to go MtF.
When there's no rules for such droughts and she could have just saved up for an elixir of sex shift.

This means she hasn't got a female body, but a feminized male body, presumably including penis.

>Author for her backstory is an MtF
I didn't know that. I just assumed she was big into socjuc. I shouldn't be surprised I guess.

>> No.36955461

As much as I approve of having LGBT characters, being gay myself, this feels forced. Changing established characters' sexuality is just lazy writing.
>alchemical "draughts"
>basically herbs
This is just like Dragon Age tumblr headcanon.

>> No.36955473


Actually, there is a new Potion that allows you to change Gender. It's basically a Belt of Gender Change in potion form, and it's a permanent, non-magical effect.

She'd be 100% female.

>> No.36955478


Basically. They want their setting to be "all-inclusive". Some of the older modules handle stuff like gay relationships and magical genderswaps really tactfully, and then we get shit like the first adventure to the Wrath of the Righteous, where the first two major NPCs are lesbians in love with one of them being a magical genderswap, and it's seriously shoved to the forefront to show how neat and progressive they are.

That author's headcanon apparently has Ezren and Seltyiel as at least bi if not gay, and Kyra as definitely gay.

>> No.36955489


I don't see the problem. At a sufficiently high level, 1000 gold is peanuts. When enemies start to show up with magical weapons and armor, you make cartloads of gold.

Unless you really wanted a vagina NOW NOW NOW, you just need to get to, say, Level 6 to 8. Then it's reasonably affordable.

>> No.36955491


Yeah, the author for Shadra's backstory made it up on the fly so that there was some sort of rules basis for the genderswap.

>> No.36955505

Not sure why s/he bothered, permanent gender swapping has been part of D&D since at least the Tomb of Horrors. Plus wherever the original Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity debuted.

Would it really have been so hard for the author to have just had Shardra acquire the Girdle? Seems much more efficient.

>> No.36955511


I don't actually mind, because it's less fucking creepy than actual transsexuals, who look like freaks. Like, as long as they're the gender they want to be, I seriously can't see the problem. It's the people who are in-between, or...aren't...that are messed-up.


Apparently it's no longer politically-correct for genderswapping to be a curse.

>> No.36955523


Honestly, MtF characters being complete swaps doesn't actually seem inclusive to me.

You can't do that shit IRL, and if you could, you would be enforcing a gender binary, and by definition, not helping people like you figure out a viable option, as they would just assume you are whatever sex you present yourself as.

>> No.36955535

Or, you know, until there's a dimensional event of some sort and you wind up bleeding to death from a wound that's on another plane in a cock that no longer exists.

>> No.36955560


It's actually very inclusive, because - in real life - the ultimate goal of a 'woman in a man's body' is to become an actual woman. Being stuck as a mutilated man, to be blunt, is not a desirable outcome. (Unless the person just wants attention for his plight.)

Gender is, in fact, binary. The only reason why we even have transsexuals is because we can't actually make a man into a woman or a woman into a man. With magic that can instantly and harmlessly polymorph someone into their desired gender, there's no need for a viable option 'in between' - There's male and female, and you get to pick the one you want.

>> No.36955596


Gender is not binary, unless you are implying the male "made of scruff" (which I is) and the fancy/dandy whatever the fuck dude are the same thing.

In fact, we aren't even getting into historical different culture expressions of gender.

This is why I like the 3e Exalted FtM who hasn't had the work done yet, but will flay you if you refer to him using female pronouns.

>> No.36955607

>Apparently it's no longer politically-correct for genderswapping to be a curse.

It's pretty well a curse if you're comfortable with your birth-gender and are forced into another against your will, like the majority of people in the world.

Agreed. Well, unless you actually do want both, or neither. Even still, give a spellcaster a few days of tinkering with a spell or magic item or somesuch and they can probably whip something up for that, too.

Magic. The cause of, and solution to, all of Golarion's problems.

>> No.36955608


I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

>> No.36955616

>the male made of scruff and the dandy dude are the same thing

These are both valid expressions of Latino machismo, actually.

Maybe you're the asshole for telling someone flamboyant they can't be a 'real man'.

>> No.36955628

>This is why I like the 3e Exalted FtM who hasn't had the work done yet, but will flay you if you refer to him using female pronouns.
Nah nah, everyone gets one warning when they meet. Which is a lot more patient than the rest of his culture.

>> No.36955630

LN necromancer and LG abjurant Champion paladin were both members of the Wee Jas police, dedicated to ruining the fun of unscrupulous folks resurrecting dead people willy nilly.

I always assumed part of being Chaotic was being a selfish jerk. Wouldn't the strongest one, realizing that he or she was the strongest, just wallop the other ones and take a bigger share, like an uncouth savage? Your proposition would only work if they were all pretty much equal in girth.

>> No.36955631

>never play pathfinder, ever, thought 3.5 was baby's first game
>never look into the setting
>FanEXPO 2014
>Pathfinder Society room
>low level one shot game
>"Well it should be fun if it's before the level where caster edition kicks in"
>(which I was correct about, for the record)
>pick up sheet for barbarian
>read back story
>"Fucking shit, that's some tryhard special snowflake shit right there."
>Scratch out the back story and all the other shit, write up a stereotypical manly man from the savage north
>(and switch out the giant's bastard sword for a giant's dwarven battleaxe, because fuck yeah axes)
>no one at the table was a cunt, so we all had a good time
>never think of that back story again until this thread
>MFW I realized that what I had originally thought was merely special snowflake bullshit was actually SJW fuckery
Bloody hell.

>> No.36955632

>liking Prince Diamond
go die, pleb

>> No.36955640

I think what he's saying is that sex and gender don't mean exactly the same thing. It gets dismissed as a tumblrism, but look in the dictionary. Gender has almost nothing to do with sex organs or chromosomes or whatever, it's how society treats you/you treat it. Sex is binary, obviously.

>> No.36955660

>Not sure why s/he bothered, permanent gender swapping has been part of D&D
Because she doesn't want a genderswapped character. She wants a transitioning character. A magical "you're a cisgirl now" isn't good enough for this backstory.

>> No.36955666


I'm not.

I'm saying that those just show the gender isn't a binary cut and dried thing.

>> No.36955669

I'll have to look it up, but I think in D&D its explicitly said a few times portal cuts can't happen, doesn't say what does, though a third party book does have an NPC that had a portal cut off while he was half way through, it cut him in half but both halfs still functioned fine and he could control them independently

>> No.36955676

>You can't do that shit IRL
It's a game, you dumb faggot. What you can or can't do IRL is irrelevant

>> No.36955683

>When there's no rules for such droughts and she could have just saved up for an elixir of sex shift.
>Actually, there is a new Potion that allows you to change Gender.
Confirmed for, a) not reading the story you're talking about, b) not reading the author's comments on said story, c) not reading the post you're replying to, and d) not reading the post it's replying to.

>> No.36955686

Except in that context it... kind of is. Both of these guys are trying to be 'manly'. They have different concepts of what constitutes 'manly' but both of them are expressing themselves in masculine ways.

>> No.36955688


well. not techinically, but for at least 80% (pulling number out of ass) it is.

Intersexed is a thing.

Unless you think the X and Y chromosomes the end all be all for sex, at which point I will tell you that there are cases where the body goes, naw, I'm not following that generic code for reasons.

>> No.36955693


Oh come on, that trope's at least as old as the bullshit you wrote up. Boudicca? Atalanta? Freyja?

Not everything is SJW, Anon.

>> No.36955706

Being chaotic doesn't stop you from respecting the golden rule, especially when it seems to benefit you and those you rely on.

>> No.36955710

I was just thinking that your gated cockrings probably go through the astral plane, meaning part of your penis is in the astral plane, and there are some pretty nasty things living there.

>> No.36955712


Y'know, having read Amiri's backstory, this is kind of all starting to click together now.

>> No.36955715

Ooh, and I forgot my favorite example, since they were my favorite civilization in Age of Empires - Zenobia, Queen of Palmyra.

>> No.36955716

Not everything is, but Paizo is.

>> No.36955728


>Oh come on, that trope's at least as old as the bullshit you wrote up. Boudicca? Atalanta? Freyja?


It's real... read this.

>> No.36955734

>at least 80%
>pulling number out of ass
Why do this? Why make up a number and then say it's made up?

>lots of people
>most people
>the majority
What's wrong with being truthful?

>> No.36955737

So you can live your life following a Rule like that, even when your Chaotic-Aligned?

What makes Chaos Chaotic, then, if they can have ordered philosophical views on life like it's no big thing?

>> No.36955745

>mfw when "her brothers were both intimidated by her ferocity and enthralled by her beauty" Was in the backstory of the character on Paizo's rundown of characters

>> No.36955747

Gate doesn't work that way, think portal

>> No.36955749


Being Chaotic doesn't make you a schizoid automatically, as far as I am aware.

>> No.36955751

Just a reminder that no game's canon setting is actually good and will always have the motivations and world views of people who are not your group, and you should only use it when setting is irrelevant to your test game or you haven't prepared your own yet.

>> No.36955752

I think Paizo is just looking to make a buck and we're deluding ourselves if we think otherwise. They're not wrong to do so, either; they're a company, their first and final goal is to turn a profit in whatever legal way they can.

I can understand the idea of wanting to have a transitioning character that transitioning real-life people can empathize with...but for those of us who've played D&D for more than, like, a week, mostly Shardra just comes across as putting a lot more effort into her actions than is necessary.

It's the equivalent of a high-level adventurer setting up this really complicated series of traps to kill an ordinary rat instead of just stabbing it with his sword or casting Magic Missile at the damn thing.

>> No.36955754

>tfw you will never cum inside Zenobia

>> No.36955755

Boudicca was a warrior queen who lost it after getting literally raped by Romans (or maybe it was her daughters who got raped....unimportant detail). Atalanta just wanted to stay single. Freyja was a cool warrior chick who was often just another one of the guys.

The PF barb's tribe is literally patriarch strawmen, and she slaughtered them all after being 'oppressed' for too long. Tell me that's not SJW fuckery.

>> No.36955761

>caring about Paizo's lore
>reading Paizo's lore

Why do you guys torture yourselves?

>> No.36955770

No, I've read it. My point is that nothing in Amiri's backstory comes across as being in any way different from the hundreds of woman warrior stories I've read from throughout the world, both fantastical (Freyja) and real-life (Boudicca). It's not an SJW moment, it's a classic trope as old as time and Amiri is simply the latest iteration of it.

>> No.36955779

Moral flexibility.

>> No.36955787


because it makes clear what I think is the majority at the least, and that I could be wrong in either direction.

Majority could be anything >50%. If the majority of people won't stab you when you go outside and it's 51%, I would stay still the fuck in. If it's 99.9%, I go the fuck out.

Both are majorities.

>> No.36955790

Think about Amiri's smash the patriarchy backstory and compare/contrast with Kostchtchie.

Note that they're both barbaric northerners.


Paizo gave him a similar theme back in 3.5 in Dragon Magazine too, so this perspective isn't new for them.

>> No.36955795

>The PF barb's tribe is literally patriarch strawmen, and she slaughtered them all after being 'oppressed' for too long. Tell me that's not SJW fuckery.
Sounds like you got triggered!

>> No.36955801

>her brothers
>enthralled by her beauty

>> No.36955814

Chaotic people follow rules because they coincide with their moral compass, or because out of all the shitty rules they find one they like and decide "yeah see, I wouldn't be so hard on the system if they had more like this", or because they know they can't get away with breaking that rule without suffering for it (Chaotic does not need to be stupid, after all).

>> No.36955817


>let them into our hobby, they said
>whats the worst that can happen, they said

>> No.36955820

>The PF barb's tribe is literally patriarch strawmen, and she slaughtered them all after being 'oppressed' for too long. Tell me that's not SJW fuckery.

It's not SJW fuckery. If anything it sounds like someone took Conan's backstory and Valeria's backstory and mixed the two together. Let me tell you something - Robert E. Howard was NOT a social justice warrior by ANY definition of the term.

>> No.36955826

I never met one person in a PF game I played in who knew who any of these characters were outside of maybe their names.

Paizo probably knows most players couldn't give a shit about their world, and stick 'progressive' things in there so more people can feel included and they can have more idiots buying their shit.

RPGs tend to attract strange people, anyhow.

>> No.36955836

>be beautiful healer girl
>have handsome adventurer brother
>go adventuring with him
>he only carries one tent, because he needs his strength
>too weak to carry a second one myself
>he only carries one bedroll too
>after every town, he tells me how much gold he saved by not rending a second room or bed
>and by not paying for a visit by a local wench
>we move somewhere nobody knows we're related

>> No.36955848

>because they coincide with their moral compass

But how does their moral compass work, if it's not structured by some kind of internal rules, you get me?

>> No.36955851

Jesus Christ, it's like they set him up as the physical embodiment of the big bad patriarchy just so that their precious little STRONK WOMYN snowflake could strike him down in the epic levels.

>> No.36955858

Dude, again, this isn't new. We've had characters like this floating around in literature for hundreds of years. Thousands, even.

>> No.36955865


>> No.36955869

Crap like this is the trade-off you make for being able to have 4 arms at level 1, access to alchemy guns and goblins that are wonderful.

It's keeping the wraethulhu and the 3.5 seperate in game that matters.

>> No.36955872

Sufficiently complex order is indistinguishable from chaos.

>> No.36955874

Gut feelings of right and wrong

>> No.36955878


Chaos has rules.

Otherwise rolling a d20 would get you a natural e every so often.

or not. It's unclear.

>> No.36955896

This is why I can't rp Chaotic characters that aren't caricature madmen or insane zealots. Proper, moral folks just gotta be Neutral or Lawful. It just makes sense.

>> No.36955898

>Conan's backstory


There's a comic and shit. They need lore.

And none of Seoni's involves transgender content. dunno what the fuck the op's on. Probably a cock.

>> No.36955899 [DELETED] 

It's scientific.

>> No.36955900

Altruism and selfishness. There's not a conscious ruleset there; "doing X makes me happy" means they'll prefer it to other things, and "doing X makes me uncomfortable" means they will prioritize other things over it. CG people help people because they like seeing other people be happy and they like feeling good about helping people. CE people hurt others because it gets what they want and they don't give a shit about the suffering of others. CN are selfish like CE people, but also have the instinct-driven stigma of not liking the idea of killing people or hurting them unless they feel like they have to.

>> No.36955908

All frost giants are described like that a bit. The wiki article is nothing, you can read much more in his Dragon Mag writeup, his Fiendish Codex writeup, and his various writeups in Pathfinder supplements about demon lords, which that wiki is paraphrasing.

Reign of Winter has similar theme too, and features witch queen Baba Yaga, who made him a demon, and her matriarchal queendom.

It also has a literal misogyny demon. Like how if you're wrathful your soul becomes a vrock, and if you're lustful it becomes a succubus, and if you're a prideful warlord you become a marilith? Well, there's an ice themed demon that misogynistic souls get turned into, as their cosmic punishment.

>> No.36955928

That just means you personally would be better represented as a Lawful character, not that Chaotic doesn't work with real people.

>> No.36955933

Oh really? We've had gods of misogyny other than Yahweh?

I don't recall which story Valeria comes from, but Conan left because of wanderlust and the Cimmerians, from how Conan treated Belit, are the sort to be cool with strong women. Also, as a realm of might makes right, Hyboria is quite egalitarian in it's own way.

>> No.36955939

Prejudice is only such a big deal if it's against a group that's losing. In a setting where all the women are in power, misogyny would be seen the way misandry is in our world - as something generally not worth worrying about.

>> No.36955941

Does it work for misandrists too?

>> No.36955953

Evil as defined by D&D is closer to sadism i.e. actively enjoying causing suffering. Selfishness is more a neutral trait

>> No.36955964

Easy bruv. The guy probably just watched a movie or two and doesn't know better because he saw one scene where Conan was bred with a slave girl.

>> No.36955984

The barbarian warrior backstory of Conan mixed with the need to overcome the misogyny of her peers of Valeria from the Conan story "Red Nails." Or perhaps Bêlit from "Queen of the Black Coast" if you prefer, but Valeria feels more likely.

>> No.36955990

I know what I'm playing next campaign regardless of system or setting

>> No.36956001

So you (In real life, you, not your characters) are a Lawful Faggot. Got it.

>> No.36956003

The point still stands, though. Chaotic people are dictated by their instincts that create morality or the lack thereof, not the codes built on those (a)moral principles.

>> No.36956005


Best Girl

>> No.36956012

Geez, even that scene made him look respectful of women because he waited until the slave was calm and stopped resisting before he deployed the cock.

>> No.36956016

But anon, women are oppressed. Didn't you read about Amiri's tribe and frost giant culture?

I'm not sure I agree with you equating the situation in the fantasy setting with the situation in the real world. Whether women in Golarion are more or less oppressed than men on Earth is a debate I don't think we should get into.

Maybe a later supplement will have a new misandry demon.

>> No.36956024

I'd probably be Lawful, myself - I've got a big buy-in on concepts like civic responsibility and the social contract, and I think it's important that we have rules both to restrain our more sinister urges and to provide examples of forthright behavior. I've always found Buddhism and Confucianism really compelling (even if I don't agree with all their tenets)

I get a kick out of playing Chaotic Neutral types, though, guys who, ultimately, have their own standards and do what feels right to them at the time. A lot of times they're outsiders to the local culture, and they tend to reflect my main concern about legal structures - that, by and large, the Law makes sweeping decisions about people without recourse to their personal experiences or situation, which can sometimes lead to unintentional cruelty.

>> No.36956043


Yeah, but this goes out the window when magic exists and allows you to pick your gender.

You want to be a woman, while you're a man? Sure, you can be a woman. You're a woman who wants to be a man? Presto!

I'm saying that you won't get the 'I identify as a woman' or "I identify as a man" problem as much, because immediate and relatively easy alternatives exist. There's no point in transitioning characters, because they can effectively and harmlessly become their preferred gender.

The minus side is that they're not going to get special treatment or pity for that, of course. And I get the feeling that drama is what most of them really want.

> "I've wanted to be a woman all my life!"
> "Cool, you're a woman now."

>> No.36956059

>maybe a later supplement will have a new misandry demonn

HA! Yeah, good one. That implies that soshul jushtiz in any way involves equality you silly bugger.

>> No.36956077

It's got to be less. One tribe of humans and one subrace of giants are all they could get away with as far as anything that might be seen as an inconvenience to women. Presumably drow and gnolls are still matriarchal on Golarion, so that's already a wash, not even considering the majority of cultures on Golarion that have been explicitly described as completely equal and laissez-faire as fare as sex stuff is concerned.

>> No.36956079

>Oh really? We've had gods of misogyny other than Yahweh?

The entire pre-Helenization Roman pantheon springs immediately to mind.

Valeria is from "Red Nails," Howard's final Conan story before he committed suicide (and often considered one of his best). We are introduced to Valeria as she is fleeing from a war camp somewhere south of Stygia. She had been a mercenary there but, when a man made advances on her and tried to rape her, she killed him a lot. She knew that the majority of the men in the camp wouldn't care about her cause of self-defense so she chose to flee instead.

>Hyboria is quite egalitarian in it's own way.

Not really, no more so than actual history. Skill with a sword tends to be more important than the gender of whoever's wielding it, but more out of fear that the woman with a sword might split open the skull of any man who tries to force her into her "rightful" place - not out of any genuine belief that she *actually* deserves respect.

From Zingara to Hyrkania, Asgard to Stygia, women are very much in a subservient role to men.

>> No.36956088

>And I get the feeling that drama is what most of them really want.
The ones on tumblr do, yeah. The trans at my table? She's just glad we're still her friends and don't talk about it.

>> No.36956091


Because I like the Runelords stuff. D:

>> No.36956094

I just don't see the point. Gender and sexuality have always been the least important part of character creation. Hell, in the Player Handbook you don't even have a step that says "Choose Your Gender" usually, you just pick a race and get rolling.

>> No.36956095

I'll have to reread Red Nails, but I don't think she went full slaughtermode. I do think, however, that she and Bêlit should be held up as examples of strong female characters for other writers to follow. And yes, Bêlit was the best girl.

>> No.36956101

What was it like knowing her through her transition? How did you and the group take it, and how did she handle it socially?

>> No.36956111

Make it a mighty warrior girl and her weak healer brother and it's perfect

>> No.36956113

Drow, gnolls, any monster born from Lamashtu, those four-armed aliens who got stranded on Golarion, and a few others yeah.

>> No.36956116


>> No.36956131

That only works for me if she's a reverse trap and he's a trap.

>> No.36956133

>LN necromancer and LG abjurant Champion paladin were both members of the Wee Jas police, dedicated to ruining the fun of unscrupulous folks resurrecting dead people willy nilly.
That sounds fun. My DM had a game where Necromancers were basically a bureaucracy, and my one friend played a LN Necromancer who was just trying to do his job and possibly qualify for Lichdom when he retired.

>> No.36956146

Eh, I prefered Valeria. Bêlit was neat and all but she didn't ever really do all that much fighting; at least, Howard didn't see fit to treat us to any.

Valeria on the other hand is portrayed as being very skilled with a sword in numerous scenes. Not as good as Conan, but then he's the star of the show, and otherwise Valeria is inestimably someone you don't want to be on the bad side of.

>I'll have to reread Red Nails, but I don't think she went full slaughtermode.

She didn't, no; that's where elements of Conan come in. If some Aesir or Vanir had ever tried to rape Conan, I'm pretty sure multiple heads would roll.

>> No.36956152

Nah, dude, you're thinking too small.
First, you create a clone of yourself, then you change its gender. Then you fuck your clone like crazy.
Then you absorb the clone-thing back, and you gain both the memories of you fucking yourself and how it feels like to be fucking yourself.

>> No.36956153

>more out of fear that the woman with a sword might split open the skull of any man who tries to force her into her "rightful" place - not out of any genuine belief that she *actually* deserves respect
In actual history, no one really qualified for deserving respect unless they had some manner of power. Those who didn't were always subject to those who did, man or woman. Slavery was often the fate of those who could not beat back aggressors.

>> No.36956172

As is typical, filk has beat you to it.


>> No.36956173

We did what we've always done. If there was a problem or she needed to talk to us about it, we did so. Otherwise it didn't matter because as it turns out most people don't sit around talking about gender without a good reason to do so.

She was very quiet about the whole affair, still is, apparently didn't have any family trouble but changed jobs to prevent the possibility of an issue with some of her old co-workers.

>> No.36956181


What I'm saying is that if the trans at your table could have become a full woman via magic, it would have been less painful and agonizing for her. Magic genderswaps would solve a lot of sexuality problems, and it would also take away the idealized view people have of the opposite gender.

A lot of would-be transsexuals think that become a woman will solve all their problems, and they can never really become a woman anyway. But magic polymorphing spells make you, in fact, a woman - So you get the genuine experience and find out that it's not all it's cracked up to be.

>> No.36956186

So it's established that, as a whole, women in Golarion aren't losing. So hating women is like hating left-handed people, or people who pronounce it "expresso," or some other group that's not losing. It's not a serious enough matter to warrant its own circle of hell.

>> No.36956197

No, hating people who pronounce it "expresso" is perfectly valid.

>> No.36956200

>The trans at my table?

Cannibalism is wrong, m80

>> No.36956219

Considering what James Jacobs is like and that he's like the chief creative officer at Paizo, I'm surprised there's not MORE transgender and strong womyn stuff.

>> No.36956222

How can it be wrong when it tastes so right?

>> No.36956229

But it's not a hate crime, because we haven't disenfranchised the people who pronounce it "expresso" or enslaved them or rounded them up into death camps. Yet.

>> No.36956232

>I learned Norse legend through marvel and pop culture
If you say so bro

>> No.36956241

We have Wikipedia.

>> No.36956246

>The entire pre-Helenization Roman pantheon springs immediately to mind.
Not too familiar with them, but I suspect that much like the Greek pantheon they are universally complete assholes.

>We are introduced to Valeria as she is fleeing from a war camp somewhere south of Stygia. She had been a mercenary there but, when a man made advances on her and tried to rape her, she killed him a lot. She knew that the majority of the men in the camp wouldn't care about her cause of self-defense so she chose to flee instead.
Stygia's completely evil anyways and almost everyone's xenophobic, though. A foreign mercenary defending himself when attacked over the result of a gambling game would find himself fleeing just like Valeria.

>Skill with a sword tends to be more important than the gender of whoever's wielding it, but more out of fear that the woman with a sword might split open the skull of any man who tries to force her into her "rightful" place - not out of any genuine belief that she *actually* deserves respect.
Even if the individuals who respect the woman are rare (the respect of Bêlit's crew for her being the exception rather than the rule), it is better to be feared and hated than just hated. Also, you'd get the same problem from being a foreign man.

>> No.36956248

Nah, I get what you mean. In my friend's case she's happy with the new her, but given she was in it for her and actively minimized the drama surrounding the transition I think she'd have loved it if there was a way to instantly shift by magic and have it not be an issue. She just plays natural females though, none of that "MY CHARACTER HAS SUFFERED THROUGH THIS" bullshit.

Hell, I like being a man and I'd probably keep a few genderswap potions in my cupboard.

>> No.36956250

What is he like?
Considering all those Matriarchies, I think it's fair to say that in that particular setting, they're winning. So more like hating right-handed people.

>> No.36956264

Can we?

>> No.36956280

Trannies and femdom are his fetishes.

>> No.36956290

It might be difficult. It's not like a race or genetics. They can switch to the right way at any time, then switch back in private or when we think we've got them all.

>> No.36956291


And he always plays female PC's, so he probably has a massive TG fetish himself.

>> No.36956304


You can still get drama, you just have to approach it differently.

> I, Turvek the Barbarian, want to be the pretty lady
> But while I fear not death or monsters, I fear the shame this will bring upon my brothers. They may not understand
> So I will go out into the world as a mighty adventurer, I will travel far away from this land and leave only tales of greatness in my wake so that none will be ashamed of me
> And then, when I have found a place where the name of my tribe has no meaning, the epic of Turvek the Mighty will end in mystery
> and the life of Tuvie the Curvy will begin

>> No.36956306

True. Then there's the "forgivable" cases where people know it's not pronounced that way, but lack the linguistic ability to say it that way without concentrated effort for some reason.

>> No.36956310

Maybe he just knows better than to put his magical realm in the canon?
>pic related

>> No.36956333

>not Turvie the Curvie

>> No.36956363

As I recall, due to the number of CIS characters it makes sense to start to create characters that cater to other demographics.

That's the real boon of fags, trans and sjw's. tap that market and you can milk them dry for every penny and they will thank you for it and blame someone else.

For example, I help run a lgbt RPG night at a local club, it helps a lot of them socialise peacefully without chavs and cunts making fun of them, yet as one of the treasurers I use part of their admin/membership fees to help fund a local conversion therapy group. I'd probably get done if I was found out.

>> No.36956397

Man, I wish I could meet a halfway decent looking transwoman. I'd totally ask her out, pre-op or not.

>> No.36956402

True, high-level adventurers can do it. But common folk can't do it because they'll never see that much money in their whole lives and might not even be able to afford to leave home and go shopping. And nobles can't do it because they have to be whatever sex is most politically useful, not what they want to be. One day your dad will just come into your room with some dude and be like, "This is our most powerful neighbor. Here's a potion. I need grandchildren. Resolve this shit however you have to."

>> No.36956427

split the potion with him 50/50?

>> No.36956438

>worth of cosmic punishment in a pre-modern setting

Who okays this idiotic bullshit? Didn't Paizo also say expecting women to obey their husbands makes a deity lawful evil?

>> No.36956440

>Bêlit was neat and all but she didn't ever really do all that much fighting; at least, Howard didn't see fit to treat us to any.
She controlled a large crew of big scary black men and she didn't do it with her pussy. There's no way she wasn't a deadly warrior. Also, she did fight in some comics from the 70s.

>If some Aesir or Vanir had ever tried to rape Conan, I'm pretty sure multiple heads would roll.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the Understatement of the Year 2014.

You could probably say the same for most Cimmerian, but we're talking about a violent culture that appreciates warrior women here. I mean, for fuck's sake, Conan was literally born on a battlefield. The PF barb's tribe, on the other hand, was made fun of for having a warrior woman at all and wanted to kill her for that. Completely different stories.

>> No.36956460

>Here's a potion. I need grandchildren.
Adoption it is.

>> No.36956474 [SPOILER] 

Dammit, I read that in this voice.

>> No.36956505

>not being a strong man and carrying two tents and two bedrolls
>not giving your cute, loyal sister her own tent for privacy whenever she wants it

It's not like you can't just visit her tent anyway, plebeians. To deny her a luxury purely to slake your lusts is pretty pathetic, especially since having two tents doesn't even prevent you from having these congresses.

For shame, /tg/. For shame.

>> No.36956517

That's one of the ones they got right, though I would say that the reverse would also be Lawful Evil. Expecting spouses to consider each other equal partners is certainly Lawful Good, maybe Lawful Neutral too.

>> No.36956523


It's not really a punishment, actually. If you're an Evil guy, you WANT to become a demon when you die. If you don't, you're prey. Like, you want to be an especially bad-ass demon, or count on not dying at all, because the afterlife you get is not pretty.

Also, Kostchtchie isn't bad, he just hates women because Baba Yaga enslaved and mutilated him. Dude's pissed.

>> No.36956525

It depends on the wording of their vows. Most marriages are supposed to be for life, at least in theory, so even an amicable divorce or separation would be considered a chaotic act.

>> No.36956550

>Most marriages are supposed to be for life, at least in theory, so even an amicable divorce or separation would be considered a chaotic act.
Er, how was that relevant to what I was saying.

>> No.36956572

Just another thing where you have to check the wording on the vows, I guess. But none of the marriage vows I've heard used specify who's going to be in charge. Claiming supremacy in a relationship could be lawful good if that's what the other party agreed to. Neither law nor good demand that everything be a democracy.

>> No.36956588

No. Lots of cousins. They would tear you apart.

Funny that. My mom is the odd one out because she only had my brother and I. Thats a catholic thing though, not Rom.

In the Eddas, Odin spent time as a woman in his quest to know all things. Took a husband, had children, lived a full human life, and returned to godhood.

>Implying you know any Romani women.
>Implying you've ever gotten laid by anyone.
>Implying I am a thieving gypsy.

0/10. I bought those children fair and square!

>> No.36956636

Yeah, but I think that Good prefers that you view your partner as another living being with its own thoughts and opinions and that you consider how your decisions and orders will make them feel.

You can be Lawful Good and still do BDSM, right?

>> No.36956648

As long as that's what your partner wants and would enjoy, I don't see why not. There are lots of obligations and power structures in a Lawful Good character's life, and as long as they're working towards the happiness of the people involved, that's just fine.

>> No.36956667

>got right

No, they got it completely wrong. Shoving modern morals into a pre-modern setting is silly. It is not even remotely evil for a god in an Ancient or Medieval setting to expect the wife to obey the husband unless you want to say everything and everyone before the suffragette movement was objectively evil. And I really hope nobody is actually that stereotypically extremist.

>> No.36956675

Subjugating another human being against their will is pretty fuckin' evil, mate.

>> No.36956680

You got a point about modern morals, but did you read the rest of the post? Not that it would counter your point, I just want to know if you did.

>> No.36956691

Sure, and you can also be a lawful good autocrat. Considering the wishes of your subjects is not the same as doing what they wish all the time. A king, spouse, or parent might do what's best for their people while also making them mad as hell.

>> No.36956705

That is not even slightly incompatible with 'traditional' gender roles.

And people who think BDSM is evil are usually extremists of one end of the spectrum or the other.

>> No.36956711


Then all Kings are evil.

>> No.36956722

Then if I have the misfortune of playing D&D or Pathfinder with a group with no one I really like in it, I'm going to play a Paladin with Leadership, and one of his followers will be his wife and his sub, just to fuck with their heads. Am I THATGUY?

>> No.36956723

The moral standards one is held to are probably higher when you have objective forces of Good hanging around who will probably pipe up in some way when you're systematically being a prick. The situation in a magical fantasy land is subtly different from that on historical Earth, is all I want to note.

>> No.36956730

No, there is a lawful evil deity who expects women to obey their husbands, which is distinctly not the same thing at all.

>> No.36956738

Why isn't there a setting where men are oppressed because women manipulate them to do everything they want, because it is considered unmanly otherwise?

A setting social norms are heavily skewed in favor of women as women have figured out that it is the easiest way to get what they want.

>men have to pay for everything to prove they are gentlemen
>men have to fight and die to defend women to prove they are "real men"
>husbands are not allowed to expect their wives do anything as it is oppression
>men are expected to follow everything a woman says because it is considered "respectful"

So tired of cliched "men are oppressing women! they rape women all the time! those evil, evil men!" settings.

>> No.36956744

How is that relevant to my point?

In medieval Europe you were expected to obey your husband but the Church had the policy that you had to willingly agree to marry the guy.

Yeah I read it, I don't think one being good means the other has to be evil. Ancient cultures considered the gods who required such things good.

>> No.36956745

If you have their best wishes in mind, it's okay for there to be authority in a relationship.

However, that DOES require that they have a voice, even if it's not always heeded.

>> No.36956749

You'd only be That Fella if your Mount was your wife and sub.

>> No.36956753

>That is not even slightly incompatible with 'traditional' gender roles.
And I never implied that. What I was trying to get across is that if you were good, you'd take your spouse's feelings into consideration even if they had to do anything you said. Good king versus tyrant, you know what I'm saying?

>> No.36956763

Suppose that your subjects are evil as shit. Would subjugating them and forcing them to stop doing evil shit not be for the greater good? A lot of modern takes on Arthurian legend handle this question. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8f9PytRCU0

>> No.36956770

Because we play these games to ESCAPE reality, not to SIMULATE it.

>> No.36956776

Certainly you can, friend.

>> No.36956778

how are you escaping reality by having a stereotypical "men are evil rapists!" setting?

>> No.36956780

You had more choice of who to marry in the middle ages than who your king was if nothing else.

I don't consider one partner being dominant or this being a cultural expectation 'systematic prickishness'. And plenty of D&D settings included deities from real world pantheons who you can worship and are considered good or neutral in the system.

>> No.36956794

You have to understand that the Greater Good has no bearing on your individual moralistic Good, especially not when Good is an objective force.

You are answering Evil with Evil. That's fucking Evil.

It's not a very complex setting.

>> No.36956796

I don't play in such settings for similar reasons.

>> No.36956800

She looks like the mage in that one Incase comic where she summons a demon to have sex with.

>> No.36956807

So just letting people do whatever they want is always good? Then why go adventuring? Killing a monster is, in a sense, exercising a certain authority over that monster.

>> No.36956811

Blue Rose RPG.

>> No.36956819

>implying it's just not another case of the most powerful deciding what's right and what's wrong for everyone else brought up to the divine level

>> No.36956836

Didn't say that.

Just, you have to take the Optimus Prime approach to this shit.

It's okay to resist evil personally, but freedom is the right of all sentient beings. And that includes the freedom to act like an asshole. All you can do is act in accordance with morality and altruism - using evil to fight evil is never justified. You can't be good AND be the Oppressor. That shit just doesn't fly.

>> No.36956844


You misunderstand, I commented on shoving modern morality in fantasy setting inspired by pre modern societies.

The way pre modern societies work is completely unethical by our standards and you can't just change their morals, but keep the immoral(by today standard) system of government in place and ignore it. The laws of pre modern society oriented themselves after their "morality", change them and their society becomes dysfunctional and nonsensical.

>You had more choice of who to marry in the middle ages than who your king was if nothing else.

No you don't, your family decided that.

>> No.36956846

>forcing people to not do evil stuff is evil

How? If that is true then law enforcement is impossible.

>> No.36956860

Freedom doesn't mean there can't be consequences.

>> No.36956864

Law enforcement doesn't force people not to do evil stuff, or there wouldn't be people doing evil shit.

It sets rules and penalties for what happens when you DO evil.

Establishing consequences for actions is not an infringement on free will. You can still do the thing, you just have to live with the consequences.

>> No.36956869

Only if you were a noble or a well off commoner, the vast majority of people could and did marry whoever they wanted. Often without a priest there before that became necessary which caused numerous headaches with divorces and such. And officially the church could not make you marry anybody no matter who you were.

>> No.36956887

That's... exactly my argument.

Lawful Good can have a code and endeavor to enforce it. But literally subjugating people and removing their freedom to choose is Evil, even if you're forcing them to only choose Good. It's like, you can't just jam a Helm of Opposite Alignment on a fucker and call it a day. You set up a system by which good is rewarded and evil is punished, and then you let people work that shit out for themselves.

>> No.36956889

That's a stupid motto, he's a stupid robot for saying it, and you're an even stupider human for liking him. "freedom" is one of those words that's become so vague as to have lost all meaning.

How is one to resist evil, even on a personal level, if we accept the panglossian idea that everyone else knows best and shouldn't be corrected? And if we apply that reasoning to others, why not to ourselves? If others have the right to do evil, why don't I have that same tight?

>> No.36956933

He's using the saying totally out of context.

Considerign Optimus Prime was fighting against a megolmaniac monster who wanted to subjugate the universe, the way Optimus Prime used the quote was pretty specific, and did not include "freedom to be an asshole."

Optimus Prime was Neutral good. Order and law were all good and fine, until the point order and law started becoming oppressive and heavy handed, at which point Optimus said, "Noooo, that's not right either," and handed the government it's ass for being a bunch of assholes.

>> No.36956945

That's not what he's saying you idiot.

Freedom is the right of all sentient beings; That's simple, and is a personal motto that he himself fights for.

If he WANTED to, he could be evil. However, evil - as defined by Transformers - is a force that is always trying to subjugate. It is a force of tyranny and tight control.

He fights against whatever shitlords come about and try to oppress, destroy, and generally fuck around because THAT IS HIS RIGHT as a free person. And that's the point - Yeah, you have the right to act like an asshole and the freedom to be evil, but you'd better fucking believe that other people exist who are going to take your ass to town for it.

Everyone has the right to do what they will, and that includes acting altruistically and morally right. Optimus is a strong enough person to inspire others to also fight for good, not because they want to oppress evil or take away rights but because they believe that it's the right thing to do.

>> No.36956946

women don't actually think like this

>> No.36956958

Maybe, maybe not, but it's fun to pretend.

>> No.36956963

so...you don't play in pretty much all fantasy settings?

>> No.36956976

>so a man who practiced magic dressed as a woman, and possibly had sex with men, as part of the rituals.
>dressed as a woman
So that is why wizards wear robes. Effeminate attire is needed for more powerful magic. Of course the wizards desire to be taken seriously and remove some more of the frilly elements probably reduces the magic somewhat.
A flamboyant wizard is a deadly wizard

>> No.36957060

It's a contradiction in terms. A right is something that others are morally obligated to provide. If what you're saying is true, he believes there are no rights.

>> No.36957064

>It's like, you can't just jam a Helm of Opposite Alignment on a fucker and call it a day.

Says who?

>> No.36957145

I like TG and maledom. I wonder how different Pathfinder would look if I was in his place.

Well he's put a magical realm in...

>> No.36957229

>A right is something that others are morally obligated to provide

No, they're just not allowed to restrict you from it. Like, the right to free speech doesn't require anyone else provide you the means to speak or do it for you, they just have to get out of the way while you spew whatever comes to mind, even if it's dumb or is shit they don't wanna hear.

>> No.36957232

But the fewer tents he carries the more other equipment he can carry. It's not like she needs privacy anyway, since you're adventuring together, and it's probably safer to keeper her close at hand, for her protection and yours, since she's a healer.

>> No.36957245

I escape those unpleasant realities by playing female PCs.

>> No.36957253

Lamentations of the Flame Princess has a place for you.

>> No.36957271

>We've had gods of misogyny other than Yahweh?


Link to the comic?

>Do this deliberately, separate your penis and hide it while keeping it functional

>> No.36957303

And does the right to a vote or a fair trial mean that people can just step aside and hope that shit happens magically on its own? No. Every right enjoyed by one person can also be seen as a responsibility imposed on everyone else.

Doing good also means taking away freedom. Someone who fights evil is obviously not also behaving as though the freedom to be evil were that person's right. Your robot is bad and you should feel bad. They needed to come up with something vague and inoffensive enough to sell a lot of toys, so they did.

>> No.36957305

These are literally the same guy, I'm pretty sure. Two different interpretations of the guy, maybe.

>> No.36957307

>Do this deliberately, separate your penis and hide it while keeping it functional

Someone has found and stolen it. Unless you obey their orders, they'll throw it in a volcano.

>> No.36957319

>Someone who fights evil is obviously not also behaving as though the freedom to be evil were that person's right
Why not? He's letting that guy choose to do evil things. He is then, himself, as an individual, choosing to oppose that guy's evil actions.

Just because the evil guy isn't SUCCESSFUL doesn't mean he wasn't evil.

>> No.36957342

A lot of religious figures have been interpreted in contradictory ways, to the extent that you could call them different beings. Early Christian Jesus, Gnostic Jesus, Medieval Jesus, Muslim Prophet Jesus, and English-speaking Gospel-of-Wealth Git-r-Dun American Jesus are all very different Jesi.

>> No.36957409

You cold interpret it the other way, too. An evil oppressor might not not forbid others from being good as long as their actions don't successfully resist him. Going from "freedom is the right of all sentient beings" cannot lead to "these particular people must be stopped" without adding additional premises. The only real way to respect everyone else's freedom is to kill yourself; that way you're not interfering.

>> No.36957442

Good God, my dick was not prepared to read that.

>> No.36957473

>Link to the comic?
Seconding this request. Got a URL?

>> No.36957562

>I use part of their admin/membership fees to help fund a local conversion therapy group.
For what purpose?

>> No.36957631

>You'd only be That Fella if your Mount was your wife and sub.

Okay, wait. What if your paladin mount was also your wife in a horse costume she was forced to wear, complete with bridle and shit?

>> No.36957644


That's a boy.

>> No.36957709

I dunno, looks pretty feminine to me.

>> No.36957738

that doesn't make sense. by that definition anything you are legally allowed to do is a "right".

so i have the "right" to walk around and give everyone the finger on the street because it's totally legal.

>> No.36957810

>Someone post a link to the comic and we can see for ourselves.

>> No.36957859

That's not what greentext is for, newfriend.

>> No.36957871

>Seriously, post the URL. Doesn't matter if it's a witch summoning up some kind of demonic tentacle monster or a sorcerous's apprentice sneaking his teacher's tome's article on "succubi" post it anyway.

>> No.36957900

Huh? Who are you quoting?

>> No.36957970

There's a sci-fic story i read a long time ago that dealt with rights.

Classic scenario : evil dictatorial earth wants to exert control over the independant mining colonies so they invade.

The protagonists are the captain of a small mining ship and his XO that is on the way home when they find a terran warship guarding one of the beacons that the invading leets needs to navigate to the mining colonies.

Over the course of the story, the protagonists argues with the new member of the crew (the engineer) over whether or not to do something. The protagonists argue that they need to figure out a way to take out the beacon, the engineer refuses, saying that it is sucidal and they have no obligation to risk their lives to do so. The protagonists express disbelief that he isn't willing to help fight.

The engineer then takes over most of the ship's controls and locks himself in the engineering bay and the protagonists suspect he might be a spy. Ultimately, the engineer finds a way to overload the beacon from a safe distance and taking out the warship with it. The protagonists celebrate and tell the engineer they were wrong about him and that he was willing to stand up and fight for their rights after all.

The engineer then reveals that the only reason he did that was because he thought it was the simplest way to resolve the situation and that he doesn't believe in "rights". I can't remember the exact argument but it left a deep impression on me...essentially it was that everyone always insists they have rights, the terrans insist they have the right to govern the mining colonies while the colonies insist they have the right to independence. Ultimately, rights are irrelevant unless they can be enforced because morals are subjective. Saying that you are fighting for your rights is as good as saying nothing, you can fight for your life, money, all those are tangible things, but rights are just an illusion that people comfort themselves.

>> No.36957974


Here you go, you lazy cunts.

>> No.36957987

Sounds a lot like Red Faction.

>> No.36958001

the story was released at least a decade before red faction came out. it was a really really old story.

>> No.36958009


>> No.36958027

>>I bought those children fair and square

>> No.36958076

>Do this deliberately, separate your penis and hide it while keeping it functional

>Arrange so it "accidentally" ends up in the possession of that rival female adventurer/seductress you have a lot of sexual tension with
>She refuses to give it back and teases you about it being her favorite play thing
>Feel everything she uses it for

>> No.36958123

Sounds like a typical Friday night, Anon

>> No.36958332

Oh InCase, why do you try so hard to make me gay? Why are you succeeding?

>> No.36958444

I don't think it's very gay if they're that cute, Anon.

At most, you're the gay equivalent of a tiefling (bisexuals are Cambions, and anything more fiendish is getting pretty gay. Balors are the Master Queens, captains of the homosexual hordes)

>> No.36959095

Seems simple enough to me....Beat his bitch ass and force the potion down his throat. I fail to see the problem.

>> No.36959813

thing is a rich old noble can still...ahem...start a family...with a pliant young trophy wife, with less shame than the rumour among the plebs that his son is now pregnant to the neighboring kingdoms excuse for a noble brat...

>> No.36959819

Bi master race

>> No.36960239


Even if theres a dick or pussy down there I would fuck it

>> No.36960669

>even if
>dick or pussy
You expect neither?

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