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[ERROR] No.36364320 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Flames of War DataGrog full of Scans & Shit!:
---Includes our Late War Leviathan rules!
Grog Official Briefings of Flames of War Brifeings and shit!:

Current /tg/ fan projects Grog may or may not have had something to do with! - Noob Guide &FAQ, and a Podcast
Quick Guide on all present FOW Books, maybe written by Grog!:

Archive of all known Grog Tracts regarding Panzers PDFs: http://www.mediafire.com/folder/nyvobnlg12hoz/Panzer_Tracts

Grog-War-II Osprey's, Other Grog games, and Reference Grogs
and, for Vietnam.

--Guybrarian Notes on how amazing Grog is!:
--Assembling the Open Fire Shermans - http://theminikingdom,b_l_o_g_s_p_o_t,com/2013/01/flames-of-war-open-fire-shermanfixes.html


Grog PODCAST NOW! We Got Tha Funk!
No Grog edition... Is sad...
First episode is out! https://soundcloud.com/panzerfunk/the-first-edition

Battlefront announces that Grog is amazing, and something about their Digital thing:

>> No.36364498

this could also be "fuck all this snow" edition....

>> No.36364518

Or "Oh god, Grog's drunk again..." edition.

>> No.36364897

1 beer..you had one beer when we wen tout tonight!

>> No.36364967

Cheap date?

>> No.36364987

I had more when I got home!

>> No.36365003

>all those Grog references throughout the pasta...

this is not drunkenness...

this is madness!

>> No.36365475


>> No.36366072

>Flames of War:God Fucking Dammit Grog its gonna take forever to edit that shit out of the next edition Edition

>> No.36366508

Alright, continuing from last thread's question I had, a couple people said Brit tanks are shit.

How shit are we talking here? Not the best but still playable shit, or "oh god youre going to get destroyed" shit? The cromwells don't look too bad. I mainly want them because they're ugly as sin, covered in rivets, and not really all that practical, which is my fetish with tanks.

I also found a PDF list for taking a Churchill company, but it has hilariously limited options and I don't think it would do well. I guess if I ever want to get my Churchill on I could always just try that later on though.

I did just find the Desert Rats lorried rifle company in Overlord, which I'm taking a look at now. Guess I could run that too since I doubt New Zealanders look all that different. I'm banging together lists right now while I figure out what I would need roughly to make a solid list that would be fun to paint.

>> No.36366832

Okay so listen up, I'm about to drop some truth. Typically British Armour is in fact: Shit. It has next to no mobility because of Semi Indirect Bombardment. Medium Armour Companies have no goddamn armour at all. Shermans are Front Armour Six. The only way you'll get a save is at long range and then usually on a Six. You don't get Flamethrowers, or breakthrough guns, so you'll need infantry to remove other infantry.

The Firefly is a Tank Killer beyond compare, it's AT-15 and rerolls failed to hit rolls if it stood still. The Challenger A30 gets the Battlefront treatment and gets Rate of Fire three rather than two.

Now for some Downsides:

GUNTANK, MOTHERFUCKING GUNTANK EXISTS SOLELY TO SCREW YOU OVER. On a Five Plus, the hits have to go onto the Fireflies first. Which means if that there's a good third of the time where your squadron will be left impotent and toothless with only 75mm Shermans to take on the prowling Cats.
Did I mention the lack of Breakthrough guns and flamethrowers? Because it really stings coming back to the British after playing factions that can access them or playing Early War where they're rare.
Semi Indirect Fire seems like the best idea doesn't it? Camp behind this hill, and shoot at them, First off it doesn't activate unless they're beyond the Long Range mark, which brings us to our second fuck you. Veterans now get hit on Five Plus, so if they're concealed and Gone to Ground, you can't hit them at all. In practice this leaves your squadrons immobile and just waiting for return fire that's longer ranged than yours.

In terms of Sherman armour, you get a selection of choices, you can take the various Overlord Companies, at the risk of being only AT 14, it's a little less awful than it used to be, when it was only AT 13. Mostly in Confident Trained with a few CVs scattered into the mix. Guards Armoured can reroll their platoon and company Motivation checks, so bear that in mind.


>> No.36366838

Some british tanks are nuff. Others are very good. The Churchill companies are very solid. Cromwells are expensive, yes, but can be very powerful.

Most people cry "shit" because you either get them RV Desert rats or as hellishly expensive pseudo-recce units. If you actually know how to work within that to your advantage they do great.

Really, It's the Sherman companies that are harder to work since, y'know, guntaking fireflies is easy. Unless you take one of the lists that lets you put your FFs in a separate platoon. That works.

The only truly masochistic British Tank list is Airborne Armoured Recce, and even then I think someone here's made that work.

>I also found a PDF list for taking a Churchill company,
...why would you *need* a .pdf list? There's perfectly good Churchill Companies in both Overlord and Road to Rome, with excellent support options. My Preference is for the RtR one, but the Overlord list is very good too.

>> No.36367151

>there's Churchill lists in road to Rome and Overlord

Well huh, look at that. Thanks, time to do more reading.

To Virus, yeah no way in hell I'm taking Shermans if I can help it. Right now I'm just wanting Cromwells and Churchills and any of the other home made abominations the Brots managed to cobble together before they hit the beaches on D-Day. I don't really know much about Brot tank design so I'm pretty much looking at anything that's odd or different.

I'm about to go to bed, but I'll post a list or two tomorrow after I've had more time to see what each list has.

>> No.36367171

Then you've got your Market Garden Squadron Choices. Guards Armoured and 11th Armoured, Double Firefly territory and Confident Veteran, Guards Armoured bring Platoon Debus to the table as well, which improves their Tank Rider's Saves.
These are hellishly expensive, a single platoon will run you towards Five hundred points. If you're brave, take JOE Vandeleur. He replaces Semi Indirect fire with Guns Left! Which gives you rerolls at Short Range if you moved.

The Canadians are pretty middle of the road, trading out British Bulldog for Woodsmen and Assault Troops. Then there's the Canadian Armoured Recce Squadron. Stealth Shermans. They get the Eyes And Ears and Cautious Movement rules. 455 points per Squadron, they are expensive, and their advantages go away the second they start shooting. But they're a lot stronger vanilla Sherman Companies.

In Italy, you get more choices, Waaaaaay more options. The 6th Armoured, and South African Armoured can bring platoons of 76mm Shermans, the New Zealanders can bring out an unusual Platoon structure which brings two normal Shermans and a Late Firefly, but can upgrade to a 105mm Sherman, I personally think the New Zealanders are some of the better British Sherman Armour you can get, it solves your breakthrough gun lack, and the platoon is reasonably cheap at only 290 points.
Italian British Shermans can get a lot of 105s

Cromwell Forces are a little better than Shermans. Cromwells in Normandy are the RV Desert Rats with the Cautious Not Stupid Rule. They come in Squadrons of three Cromwells and a early Firefly. It's a lot better, leave the Firefly somewhere good and let it snipe, then run the faster moving Cromwells out smack the side armour. In Holland they upgrade to the Challenger A30, do the same thing, but enjoy three shots.

Churchill Forces don't really differ much between Italy and France. Bring Crocodiles if you hate having Friends. Enjoy the fact that your Churchill VII have front armour 13.

>> No.36367313

I think Spamming New Zealand Late Armoured Squadrons could actually work quite well in the new Points limit.
For 980 points, you can bring in four Late Fireflies, and four 105mm Shermans and you've still got more points to spend.

British Support is a bit of a Mixed bag. Typhoons suffer from not having bombs, but they're cheaper for not having Flying Tank.

25pdr batteries are not game winners, you can split the batteries up to fire two smoke bombardments or HE bombardments per turn. They don't have the same killing power that 105 gun tubes have. You can get Heavy Mortars, but without a Staff team, they're a little worse.

British Infantry are getting better as they get better access to Armoured Transports, Bring a platoon for holding an Objective or for clearing up a objective.

SP AT squadrons are rubbish frankly. 3" Guns aren't powerful enough for late war, and Achilles do not have Semi Indirect Bombardment which would make them pretty great.

So TL:DR. Take Cromwells. If you want British Shermans, take New Zealanders, Canadian Recce.

>> No.36367379

>and Achilles do not have Semi Indirect Bombardment which would make them pretty great.
Perhaps, but they're also the only reeeally heavy AT a RtR Chruchill company has access too, outside of air. And they're not awful in that role; since they have a swarm of tough-ass Churchills keeping attention focused away from them. Or Crocs.

>> No.36367448

Crocodiles are fucking wonderful, even with V3's Nerf to the Flamethrower rules and their deployment rules. They used to be able to kill tanks with their flamethrowers. You send three Front Armour 13 tanks marching up towards their most important platoon, and then your opponent shits himself. Hell, move them at the double, you can afford to not give a shit, you're immune to the FlaK 88, the PaK 40, the KwK 42 at long range, and you get a good save against the KwK 43.

Downside: 510 points for three CV, or 395 CT, and it robs you of Night Attack if you're infantry. But you weren't getting it as a Churchill Company anyway, so it gives you Auto Attack as a direct upgrade rather than arguable sidegrade. Also they're only top armour one because of the Fuel Trailer and the modifications so artillery is a threat. Cover their flanks is the most important thing you can really do with them.

>> No.36367579

Think of Churchills as Tigers that trade Sheer gunpower for a big-ass price discount, and the potential to get much better armour - Churchill VIIs have FA13, one point shy of a Porsche KT.

As far as the two lists go:
Overlord Chruchills:
-Cheaper (only come CT),
-*much* cheaper support,
-Gets AA and Breaching Groups (AVsRE) as support options

-Only CT
-Guards option locks out Churchill VIIs
-Grab-bag platoon composition very vulnerable to Guntaking

RtR Churchills:
-CV core units
-Excellent homogenous core options, including Church III/IVs with 6pdr(late) guns
-AOP gets access to Dixie Air support
-Can take Sherman Vs instead of Churchills in Core platoons as a low-cost alternative

-Expensive core platoons (CV only)
-Very Expensive Support
-Completely lacks AAA support

So yeah. They have their pros and cons. RtR lists will be very small and elite, whereas Overlord lists will have more numbers and support but be more vulnerable to getting selectively fucked up.

Both lists lack really heavy AT - the best you get is Achilles. Though RtR Churchills with late 6pdrs have a very respectable RoF3 AT11 gun, and shred medium tanks in brawls.
You will rely heavily on infantry or crocs in both lists to deal with enemy infantry.

>> No.36368041

>You don't get flamethrowers or Breakthrough guns
What about Wasps, Crocodiles, AVsRE, Sherman IBs and Priests?

>> No.36368078

>Also they're only top armour one because of the Fuel Trailer and the modifications so artillery is a threat.
In which book? Overlord, Market Garden and RtR all list them as Top Armour 2.

>> No.36368098

Oh, and of course Pioneers.

>> No.36368146

This is probably just a relic of Tank Aces but I fucking love the 300pt Churchill IV(late) platoon. Nine shots of AT11 breaks things and your armour stats make you reasonable at assaulting infantry anyway.

>> No.36368220

Wasps and Crocodiles are rarer than you expect. Overlord Armour can't take Wasps, Only infantry Carrier platoons can take Wasps.

AVsRE have a four inch range, is not okay. Sherman IBs are Italy only, and I addressed that in the Italy section. Priests are only available to the Independent Armoured Squadron, and I'm not a fan of that organisation. And British Pioneers are a joke.

No, Churchill Crocs are Top Armour One, unless it's been Lessons from the Front-ed.

>> No.36368237

Crocs are To 1. All other Churchills are Top 2.

>> No.36368339

>British Support is a bit of a Mixed bag. Typhoons suffer from not having bombs, but they're cheaper for not having Flying Tank.

I'd just like to amend that British LW Airsupport in Italy/Road to Rome lacks Typhoons, and instead has Spitfires and Kittyhawks with MGs and Bombs.
And Hurricanes with Rockets too I guess.

>> No.36368346

Huh, fowlists's arsenal is garbage, apparently.

>> No.36368356

FowLists has numerous arsenal errors, yeah. Take a look at what they rate the AT of Italian 65/17 guns, for instance.

It's very good for a quick way of throwing together rough lists, but it doesn't beat reading the actual books. Or scans of the actual books.

>> No.36368457

That's an AA gun mounted on a Panther chassis

>> No.36368465

And is in our LWL rulebook.

>> No.36370072

>> No.36371273

>Brit tanks

well at least its consolation that BattleFronts blatant 'MUH FLAVA' hamstringing isn't just applied to soviets...

>> No.36371297

>your whole rant

true, but the real horror comes in the fact British lists seem deceptively homogenous, then you notice that this lists lacks X, that list lacks Y, and so on...so, you can rely upon a support choice being there if you want it.

take recon with any and all brit tank forces.

also, why bitch about the Typhoon when it has ROCKETS? unless your dice absolutely hate you, hitting on a 3+ having AT6 v. TA, and a 3+ Firepower make them a very good weapon in any hands. sure, you have a 33% margin of failure, but you can take all comers...

i played Cromwells once, and i loved it. you have to use terrain, and use that speed. knife fight them in the rear, give them 2 choices. also, we can disengage now, and use cautious movement, so, that makes those better.

i'd say: if Brit Armor is your choice take your Sherman lists from Market Garden, take VanDeLeur and Tiffies. I'd bet on Churchhills or Cromwells instead, and i do think the Irish have a list that allows 4 Cromwells per platoon, or was it 5 combat platoons?...either way, it's sick. also HQ CS platoon never gets put in reserve, and it moves just as fast, and can smoke something.

Virus, which other Brit tanks do you like?

>> No.36371315

>can't rely upon a support choice being there

ahem, my error!

>> No.36371386

The Irish don't get any Cromwells.

>> No.36371446

> also HQ CS platoon never gets put in reserve, and it moves just as fast, and can smoke something.
Why does it not get put in reserve?

>> No.36371486

isn't there a seperate Irish hussar list in italy?

or is that the old PDF: it was an alternate, not a primary list

counts as HQ. those have the option of placing when HQ units do, amirite?
otherwise, i have a cheating player on m'hands....

>> No.36371505

Nice write up Virus, you should paste that into the noob guide.

>> No.36371526

>counts as HQ. those have the option of placing when HQ units do, amirite?
>otherwise, i have a cheating player on m'hands...
I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, sorry.

The HQ Support Platoon is just a regular platoon and follows all the normal rules for any other platoon. If you have HQ CS tanks then you can either deploy them and count them as one of your platoons for the purposes of up to half on; or you can stick them in reserves in which case you have no 2iC until they come on.

>> No.36371848


This. They're not a platoon in their own right, as such. They either get combat attached out to another platoon, in which case they're part of that platoon, or they form a NEW platoon with the 2iC, in which case they're still a platoon. Reserves rules don't really get changed much one way or another.

>> No.36371977

And since they're tanks, they can't be combat attached.

>> No.36371978

>They're not a platoon in their own right, as such. They either get combat attached out to another platoon, in which case they're part of that platoon,
Except that Tanks can't combat attach so if you're taking that option you're taking them as a three tank platoon lead by the 2iC.

>> No.36372103


I never understood this...

would it even be that OP if it was allowed?

>> No.36372178

I think it's a historical thing rather than an overpowered thing.

>> No.36372264

i LOVED adding the 2 CS tanks to a platoon, and then tossing in a CiC

6 Brit tanks with are-roll to morale? yes please!

>> No.36372372

so, an update on GIRL und PANZER: Flames of War:

the movie is pushed back to Summer 2015. so, i can't release the sucker until then, due to my desire to add the Chi-Ha Tan school. however, things that have hit the shelves since then are adding to the pot...

The new GUP: Ribbon Warrior series has just begun, only 2 episodes deep: it has already given us a new game format (Tankatholon) a new Warrior character who..oddly, has no HS to back her up, and we now have a new Bonple HS leader character: she's a gallivanting arrogant ass with no morals and plenty of style, Yaika. see pic, it's related.

also: Sanders can LL an M22 Locust for the purpose of Tankatholon play

i am going to follow the series to get good rules for the schools, although i think the title character will rarely see play since it's just her, her driver, and her tank...i can't imagine their entire set up would be more than 180pts...even if i soaked it in rules...

>> No.36372467

Alright got a basic 7th armored squadron list thrown together. Not too worried about being uber competitive with this, that's what my assault pancakes are for. Wanted to stick with 7th armored units wherever possible, so if some choices seemed weird that's why.

Desert Rats Armored Squadron 1900pts

1iC and 2iC Cromwell IV w/ Cromwell ARV- 180

X3 Cromwell IV, Challenger (early) - 375

X3 Cromwell IV, Firefly - 360

X3 Stuart V w/ AA MG - 145

Lorried Rifle platoon w/ trucks - 145

Armored recce squadron X3 Cromwell IV -275

SP Artillery X4 Sexton with OP Sherman, transports - 245

Limited Typhoon support - 170

1895pts, 6 platoons, all Reluctant Veteran.

Also, quick question. You can buy trucks for the lorries rifles, but you can only buy two. Now, I might be wrong, but each truck can only carry 4 teams right? But the platoon has 9 stands. So how on earth would you even use the damn things? Wait for someone to kick the bucket so you can mount up, or am I just being an idiot here?

>> No.36372533

>Also, quick question. You can buy trucks for the lorries rifles, but you can only buy two. Now, I might be wrong, but each truck can only carry 4 teams right? But the platoon has 9 stands. So how on earth would you even use the damn things? Wait for someone to kick the bucket so you can mount up, or am I just being an idiot here?
6 teams per transport, not 4.

>> No.36372689

>6, not 4

Thanks, I'm an idiot.

That's some serious clown car action goin on right there

>> No.36372763

>That's some serious clown car action goin on right there
Especially since tank teams can be used as transports as well (tank riders, and all that)... and recce jeeps (and/or universal carriers) are classified as tank teams.

>> No.36372796

Tanks can only carry like 3 teams though.

Transport jeeps towing 6 pounders that have been combat attached to a Para platoon, on the other hand...

>> No.36373713

>the movie is pushed back to Summer 2015. so, i can't release the sucker until then, due to my desire to add the Chi-Ha Tan school
Just add Chi-Ha Tan in Summer 2015.

>> No.36374309

Lucky for you, I took the time to save the original, first! See? I'm not a complete bastard!

Flames of War SCANS database (Fully Updated. Including Barbarossa!):
---Includes our Late War Leviathan rules!
Official Flames of War Free Briefings:

Current /tg/ fan projects - Noob Guide &FAQ, and a Podcast
Quick Guide on all present FOW Books:

Archive of all known Panzer Tracts PDFs: http://www.mediafire.com/folder/nyvobnlg12hoz/Panzer_Tracts

WWII Osprey's, Other Wargames, and Reference Books
and, for Vietnam. I could slip this sentence in anywhere and no one would ever know.

--Guybrarian Notes:
--Assembling the Open Fire Shermans - http://theminikingdom,b_l_o_g_s_p_o_t,com/2013/01/flames-of-war-open-fire-shermanfixes.html


WE PODCAST NOW! We Got Tha Funk!
First episode is out! https://soundcloud.com/panzerfunk/the-first-edition

Battlefront announces Flames of War Digital:

>> No.36374391

> I could slip this sentence in anywhere and no one would ever know

>> No.36374438

I never said I "fixed" it...

On a side note, Breakthrough Assault does confirm that the new Fate of a Nation book has removed Ta'A from Jordanians, gave them Semi-Indirect Fire, and made all of their lists (even tanks) Always Defend!

>> No.36375103

>I could slip this sentence in and no one would ever know

[moustache twirling and snickering intensifies]

>> No.36375133


did they make Israel less 'master-race' and make the isherman more expensive?

>> No.36375160

>those Jordanian rules

Muh dick

>> No.36375839

~weeps tears of joy~

ok...this is both great and horrid.

great that they have fixed Jordan, horrid because now I have no reason NOT to collect a Jordanian army

>> No.36375880

The love of somewhat oddball armies like the Jordanians and Hungarians always amuses me.

>> No.36375912

well..I do have a hungarian army as well.....

>> No.36376321

>I have no reason not to collect a Jordanian army

Same here. I expect much suffering in my wallet's future.

Wonder what made them change their mind, if this is true of course.

>> No.36376501

Oh yes. I've been saying this for a while, the British need a serious price slash for their Sherman armoured forces. Being whipped by Soviet T-34/85s is but a little bit painful.

I'm not knocking the Typhoon, I'm just still biased against it from V2. In V2 it went, call for Air Support, check how many planes have turned up, and someone's always pinched your Airplane die into the bargain too. Then Range in, then hit them with your weapons, then they get to save, and then roll firepower. There was a lot that could go wrong and that was before AA support could be factored in.
It's a good asset to have, but then I started Night Fighting as British Infantry and they dropped to completely useless.

In other eras, I don't really play much Armour, I got some reasonable results including a pair of Matilda IIs to bolster my Indian Infantry, but that was before Barbarossa stuck it's metaphorical cock into the Meta. Now I'm probably not going to play British Infantry for fear of coming up against a Barbarossa companies that promise to be so much better armed and armoured than anything we can spit out.

Stuart Armoured Companies used to be crazy go nuts in Early War, but again, pre-Barbarossa.

How are we defining Irish? Because there's the Irish Guards, who get all the Cromwells.

I cut my teeth with British Armour, and left so many of those squadrons burning and bleeding across many a table. It's not forgiving, the Cromwell forces are still hugely better, leave your Firefly/Challenger behind, let it snipe, and then go hunting.

British Infantry are pretty great now though, for some reason Battlefront's giving a lot of the newer Companies Armoured Transports despite them being kinda rare.

>> No.36376529


With your criteria there is no good list outside Pattons 7th armored (it has armor, breaktrough guns). Problem is that UK armor rapes Pattons 7th armored. With smoke and Semi Indirect fire there is practically nothing standing after a few rounds except jumbos.


The british trained armor in overlord is very powerful. Adding in the breaching group, the Swiss army knife composition of the armored platoons, It is not as good vs infantry as american 7th armored or Soviets but it is very effective against them. The thing I think is that the british infantry is better for open tournaments. Infantry always attacking on the night can totally decide the outcome before even dice are rolled (example when they attack an tank company in counter attack).

>> No.36376578

>Irish Guards Cromwells
Which book has those?

>> No.36376672


Plus Night Attack has the possibility to be a hilarious Fuck You to the usual crowd of Auto-Attack Armoured Companies. RAW:
>A player commanding a British Infantry Company may elect to make a Night Attack in Missions that do not use the Meeting Engagement Rule, if you do so the game starts at Night and uses the Dawn rules on page 273.
>When Making a Night Attack, the Company has the always attack special rule, and all British platoons containing only infantry teams can use the spearhead special rule.

If you take Rules As Written, and especially as there's never really been any errata for this, even if you're not attacking in the mission, you can force the enemy to attack you at Night. So hey Spearheading Panzer IV/Sherman XL Turbo Supreme, Eat this sack of cocks.

Unless you're playing on a 40k table with a few hills on your side, Semi Indirect Bombardment is so rare to actually use, because a smart opponent simply hides his tanks away until within short range. Can't actually hit what you can't actually see.
Plus again, Guntank, 33% of the time, his return fire eliminates your tank killers, or, he drops smoke on your Shermans, and now you can't shoot at all.

Market Garden. They're the Armoured Recce Squadron under the Guards.

>> No.36376782

>If you take Rules As Written, and especially as there's never really been any errata for this, even if you're not attacking in the mission, you can force the enemy to attack you at Night.
Except there has been errata for this, and it doesn't work.

Also, the Armoured Recce Squadron under the Guards is the Welsh.

>> No.36376875

Damn it I always get that one wrong, then if I'm still not an idiot, the Irish Guards are just a Guards Armoured Squadron.
Well, I am wrong twice today. They hid it down in the rule book changes. So disregard all of >>36376672

>> No.36376913

It's super easy to remember, because the Irish Guards use blue symbols and blue is the colour of Ireland.

>> No.36376925

>a smart opponent
A smart opponent wins with nothing but 3 kubelwagens. That argument isn't convincing.

About terrain, well I won 2 tournaments this year with my EW czech panzer list and it has 88s in it. Long range engagements do frequently happen. The trick to use is that one always gets to place some of the objectives. A good idea is to put them in places where one can build good fire lines to objectives, or to vulnerable units.

Also I think you kind of overvalue the gun tank rule. One of the best tank lists right now, Pattons 7th armored is susceptible to gun tank, but does really fine in competition. It is ok to hate british armor, but it is not a shit company to play.

>> No.36376986

They're still 'master-race'. Just a lot less of an auto-win against the Jordanians. Or so it would seem.

UAR is still the tank-spam horde of doom, and can even take fuck-huge fortified infantry with Quality of Quantity.

>> No.36377065

>Unless you're playing on a 40k table with a few hills on your side, Semi Indirect Bombardment is so rare to actually use,

For standard Shermans. The only time it's hard to get a Firefly or AC-30 into a good position with more than 16" of LoS, is when you're playing on a Stalingrad table where ever road is 12" in legnth.

>> No.36377248


wait...wouldn't that make Jordanians basically like brits in terms of uselessness of semi-indirect? especially considering they will be going up against vet Israel


what about IShermans? I recall they were way undercosted

>> No.36378154

>wait...wouldn't that make Jordanians basically like brits in terms of uselessness of semi-indirect? especially considering they will be going up against vet Israel

Well you're on defense automatically... So it means opening volleys will be great at long range. But the thing to remember about Semi Indirect is statistically speaking it makes your long-range shots *nearly* as good as your short range shots (re-rolled 5+ comes out to a 55% chance to succeed, compared to 50% for a 4+). Except for when you need to hit Dug-In, Gone-To-Ground Veterans, but being Defender means that in most missions they won't be able to happily sit back with a 7+ to be hit.

>what about IShermans? I recall they were way undercosted
No word yet. But considering the amount of backlash on them, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a readjustment to their cost. Apparently the T-34/85 spam army of ridicilulous proportions is no longer possible with the UAR, though.

>> No.36378444

The concern with the iShermans is that there was a podcast in which Phil (I think it was Phil) said that there were almost as many complaints about it being undercosted as overcosted. So they knew it needed some playtesting, but they weren't sure in which direction it'd go.

>> No.36378556


>believing and/or caring what phil says


>t-34/85 spam

ive never heard of this as a problem army before

>> No.36378563

>Israeli Players:
>"Clearly I can't bring enough IShermans to auto-win! I must have more! They are overcosted!"

>> No.36378645

It's a reasonable concern because if Phil doesn't agree, it won't happen.

It doesn't sound like Phil disagreed, but it was noncommittal enough that they might not go down in cost.

>> No.36378869

The UAR in FoaN could give you a good ass-whooping by spamming 41x T-34/85s, and still have plenty of points left over for each one to have a .50cal AA MG! The total for this comes out to mere 1010pts, In a 1500pt game, you could throw down said 41x T-34/85s, 6x SU-100s, 6 PT-76s led by a BTR-50PK, and 2 ZSU-57-2 AA Tanks. This comes out to a total of 1425. So either you can say "fuck all" to the remaining 75pts, or you can drop an SU-100 and add an infantry platoon to the PT-76s, giving you several more BTR-50PKs.

>> No.36379838


im guessing t-34/85s armour and conscript rating isn't enough to offset this?

>> No.36380061

Generally, no it wasn't. Sure they die quickly, but 11 IShermas aren't going to stop 54 tanks running at them full-speed. Who cares if the UAR needs a 5s to hit them when they move right up next to the shermans... You'll still have 20 something shots, and every hit is highly likely to kill a sherman.

>> No.36380936

you wake up in Kuban, East Ukraine.

>> No.36381053

I find the nearest Journalist and stick with them, hoping that any of the lost Russian Airborne troops don't kill us.

>> No.36381072




>> No.36381505


>> No.36381673

Flames of War: Kievan Krisis

Donetsk Republic:
+BUK anti-air missiles that disappear after you fire them.

Ukrainian National Guard:
+Loses all morale checks if battle is at Mariupol.
+if you have not won by turn 4 you lose, as everyone loses interest, doesn't want to get shot, and goes home.

Azov Battalion:
+"For the Reich" special rule

Russian Paratroopers:

>> No.36381824

>Ukrainian National Guard:+Loses all morale checks if battle is at Mariupol.+if you have not won by turn 4 you lose, as everyone loses interest, doesn't want to get shot, and goes home.

How about instead, roll a die at the start of every turn. If the result is a 6, a ceasefire is called and both teams must redeploy with their remaining forces and all their available reserves.

>> No.36382216

Now make some FoW: Ferguson rules.

>> No.36382709

EW Red army strelk vs SS

>> No.36382726


and all the soviets can use is unarmed teams

>> No.36382776


>> No.36382816


gee I didn't know the protesters all had a gun each!

>> No.36383042

Not everyone in an MG team has one MG each either

>> No.36383139


I think he's being sarcastic silly...

>> No.36383141

They're Americans so statistically speaking they do.

>> No.36385522

Thanks for all the help with the Brit list questions guys. I've got a lot better idea of what I'll be looking for come black Friday. The Warstore usually has a good sale and I plan on hitting that up like I did last year. Also hitting Forged in Battle with an order since you can apparently order Panther F turrets from them for 75p if you ask nicely. Odds are I'll never get to run LWL and Panther F's, but dammit I'll be ready if that ever becomes popular.

Hope you guys are getting time to do hobby stuff. I'm visiting family and about all I can really do is crunch lists and read while listening to my grandparents try to pretend they're not stuck a few decades back when it comes to dealing with anyone other than white folk. Gotta say that grandma can cook up some mean biscuits n gravy though

>> No.36387182


God no. Same as EW soviets. You can drown the enemy and there's sweet fuck all they can do about it, half of the time.

>> No.36387626


>> No.36388488


That was my interview with him at Flamescon I did for /tgFoW/. Nice to see people still remember it.

>> No.36388913

We're super appreciative of that by the way. It provided some interesting tidbits of information. Problem is there may be a legal issue in using it for the Podcast.

Von Pedant, hows the Computer?

>> No.36389195

How to Soviet Tankovy?

>> No.36389203

Perfectly fine comrade! Now don't bring it up again unless you want all of us to end up in shitstorm gulag.

>> No.36389255


>MFW I win with Soviet Tankovy

>> No.36389291


Efficient combinations of your forces, and an understanding that you're going to take casualties. Pick a point, focus your force. That's what Soviets do very well. Don't play like a German. Don't fiddle, smash. You're not pissing about turn to turn. You're planning over the course of a game.

You can include infantry if you want, but they're not always essentially. Infiltrate's an incredible thing to have on your side. SU-122s are great for their cost. Have some of the high AT AFVs about but don't go nuts, your mediums are great most of the time. And respect your arty.

>> No.36389296

It's on goddamn life support. I had to open the back and have spliced my power cable directly into the PSU just so it'll work. Desperately scavenging data.

It's messy.

>> No.36389373

that looks unsafe

>> No.36389488


You misspelled 'awesome'.

>> No.36389535


you both misspelled 'impractical'

>> No.36390071


you all misspelled 'doraemon'

>> No.36390136

No time-traveling robotic cats allowed here, only Chen.

>> No.36390260


German 654. Schwere Panzerjager (Ruhr Pocket)
Tank Company, from Bridge at Remagen, page 55

Compulsory 654. Schwere Panzerjagerkompanie HQ (p.56) - CinC Jagdpanther, 2iC Jagdpanther (420 pts)

Compulsory 654. Schwere Panzerjager Platoon (p.56) - Command Jagdpanther, Jagdpanther (420 pts)

654. Schwere Panzerjager Platoon (p.56) - Command Jagdpanther (210 pts)

512. Schwere Panzerjager Platoon (2. Kompanie) (p.49) - Command Jagdtiger (270 pts)
- Replace Command Jagdtiger with Otto Carius Jagdtiger (RV) (85 pts)

Volkssturm Platoon (p.74) - Command Panzerfaust Rifle, 8x Panzerfaust Rifle (105 pts)
- Replace one Panzerfaust Rifle with MG08/15 LMG (-5 pts)

Volkssturm Platoon (p.74) - Command Panzerfaust Rifle, 6x Panzerfaust Rifle (85 pts)
- Replace one Panzerfaust Rifle with MG08/15 LMG (-5 pts)

Trained Volks Light Artillery Battery (p.75) - Command SMG, Staff, 2x Observer Rifle, 6x 10.5cm leFH18/40 howitzer (195 pts)

>> No.36390474

uhm, not Irish Guards, HUSSARS.

used to be in one of the Italy books, forgot which

>> No.36390495

being like Brits is better than being like non-horde Soviets

>> No.36390542

Erm... I don't think there were ANY Cromwells in Italy. And the only Irish I can remember from there is the North Irish Horse, with Churchills and Shermans...

>> No.36392529

Is there a release date for new FoaN yet?

>> No.36392986

Supposedly it was going to be in November, but the month is almost over.

Battlefront's release dates are NEVER accurate.

My guess would be late December or early in the New Year.

>> No.36393053

Any educated guess what the plasticrelease for december will be?

>> No.36393084

You mean the January 2016 release right?

>> No.36393085

I would guess either Jagd/Panthers or American Tank Destroyers

>> No.36393098

>problem is there may be a legal issue on using it for the podcast

Why? Didn't the guy mention he was recording it for a podcast when he interviewed Phil? I don't see what the problem would be. Is there some sort of Australian law I don't know about or something?

>> No.36393143

If BF was an Aussie Cunt company than Photoscanfag might actually be able to get GWR. They're a Kiwi company instead.

>> No.36393269

Why they released a new plasticbox every month since january this year

>> No.36393290

It's a bad joke about delayed release dates.

>> No.36393384

Yes to both

Then january 2015 "Der Untergäng" - Battle for Berlin, with veteran soviets and soviet plastic infantry

>> No.36393402

>veteran soviets

>> No.36393417

I honestly hope that they will NOT release plastic soviet infantry, at least not for a while yet... I'm already neck deep in unfinished armies.

>> No.36395742

>> No.36395849

My hesitant prediction for the Berlin book will be "Hero Strelkovy" (a.k.a. Udarny with Hero Support Choices), "Hero IS-2 Tankovy" (a.k.a. A bag of dicks), and a complete copy-paste of DM's Hero Tankovy but with improvised-armor bedspring upgrades for +10pts a tank.

>> No.36395870

Oh, and then 6 unique and interesting German lists, unlike anything found in any other book.
Totally not bitter

>> No.36396652

I found the remagen german list very cool and usefull

>not bitter

>> No.36396967

Eh? Remagen had good lists for Yanks and Krauts.

DM is the point of contention since the Kampfgruppes were cool, but all bar one of the Soviet lists were either junk or nothing new.

>> No.36397150


I'd like to see a redone "Storm Group" with the option to take integral support weapons/direct fire artillery in the rifle/smg companies. Maybe faustnika teams again for all of your man-portable bunker-busting needs.

Maybe some special rules to reflect that it's the last big push and these are the hard bastards who are going to storm the Reichstag and get revenge for Mother Russia (platoon or company motivation bonus or something). Call it "Lair of the Fascist Viper" or "Red Banners Over the Reichstag" or something.

Also loads o' flamethrowers, as usual.

Hey, I can dream.

>> No.36397238

You can bet the French SS volunteers will get a super-special list. Because muh crusade against Bolshevism.

>> No.36397355

Well, there's never been any doubt a force as batshit insane as SS-Charlemagne would get a list.

It's always been a matter of when.

>> No.36397391

This. Those guys were really hard bastards.

Did anyone of those survived after they surrendered?

>> No.36397446

For the Germans a Volkssturmlist would be cool. Fanatic SS guys, reluctant Wehrmacht rests

Oh and some cool fortified list for the battle at the Selower Hohen

>> No.36397465

If I'm reading wikipedia right(and wikipedia is right), only a few survived including one time commander Fenet.

"Reduced to approximately thirty able men, most members of the Sturmbataillon had been captured or escaped Berlin on their own, or in small groups. Most of those who made it to France were denounced and sent to Allied prisons and camps. For example, Fenet was sentenced to 20 years of forced labour, but was released from prison in 1959. Others were shot upon capture by the French authorities. General Philip Leclerc, the French divisional commander who had served under the Americans, was presented with a defiant group of 11-12 captured Charlemagne Division men.[11] The Free French General immediately asked them why they wore a German uniform, to which one of them replied by asking the General why he wore an American one (the Free French wore modified US army uniforms). The group of French Waffen-SS men was later executed without any form of military tribunal procedure.[12]"

>> No.36397611

Anyone else think tank escorts should act more like schurzen do? Don't get me wrong, double swings in assault is cool, but their job was to hold ground and protect the tanks.

>> No.36398158


I think Tank Escorts in general worked a lot better in V2, except that they shouldn't have counted as living or dead teams. But yeah, the Tank Escorts should give some sort of defense to a vehicle, especially against man-portable AT assets. 1 shitty defensive fire dice does fucking nothing. The least they could have done was count it as a full extra MG, so vehicles without MGs (i.e. Assault Guns) could get 3 defensive fire dice out of it.

>> No.36399165

Don't forget that communist russians are some kind of lesser for of human because of muuuuuuuh purges

>> No.36399607

can i get a rule check /tg/
>American master list
>Airbourne list
>pure paratroops, no gliders
>Pathfinders join board first
my question is: does anyone else have to? Other than pathfinders can i have a completely empty board? i understand that i have to make remount checks in order to mount any vehicles or guns i drop in.
>i lied i have a second question
what do i do about ambushing units? They are not revealed until "triggered" and are declared pre game to be ambushers, but do they have to make the same reinforce checks too right? (assuming they are also paratroopers)((which they are))

>> No.36400055

What are you talking about?

You follow the deployment rules for whatever mission you are playing.

Paratroopers are no different than any other army.

Unless you are specifically playing a para-drop scenario, but I don't think that was ever updated for Version 3 of the main rules.

>> No.36400154

The attacking player in the Aerial Assault mission doesn't get any ambushes so I have no idea what your second question is asking about. And, I don't think you can get any tanks in Aerial Assault outside of maybe some British Airlanding Tetrarchs?

>> No.36400601


If we don't already have them there then we probably want to get all the free PDFs into the scan archive before BF pulls them all.

>> No.36400643

Not tanks, Anon probably means other vehicles that have to be mounted like arty and tshit like that. There was a 2nd Ed rule about having to drop the crew and gun seperate, i have no idea if that was updated for 3

>> No.36400863

Anon is probably thinking of the rule where the defender starts with his vehicles bailed out since his post seems to imply he's very confused on the matter.

Anyway, vehicles are all going to be Glider platoons so they come on from reserve and can only come on after all the Parachute platoons come on. Same with guns - they're almost all gonna be Glider platoons anyway.

In fact, I have literally no idea what his first question is about since the mission clearly states that you don't deploy any troops on the board and they walk (or, in the case of British Airlanding, crash) onto the board turn one.

>> No.36400905

What mission are you playing?

>> No.36400978

Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing where it says that existing free pdfs are gonna disappear.

This seems to be typical Official Forum bitching. This time it looks like they're bitching about how lists that will be released only to BF's FoW App are going to be handled at tournaments.

I don't see anything about current pdfs being pulled from their free status.

>> No.36402707

Looks like someone's done a preview review of the new fate of a nation book


>> No.36402949

Thanks a bloody lot Battlefront. I bought an extra panther to make up the numbers for a Squadron, and they sent me a M-10 instead!

>> No.36403044



>> No.36404063

So how does this list rate?

>> No.36404324

Reluctant on everything might be annoying to deal with, but it looks like you have pretty much all of your bases covered.

Although I worry that the single Super Pershing will be insufficient if you come up against a large number of German Kitties.

>> No.36404448

To be fair though, people go into Reluctant or Conscript lists, knowing they'll have suck morale or the worst skilled troops possible.

>> No.36404551

Those cheeky bastards! You should complain to them!
Too bad they wouldn't get it...

>> No.36405645

Might be overkill with 6 Priests. At the same time, your Assault Guns are very vulnerable as only 2 strong... Aside from that, I think it has everything it needs, and then some.

>> No.36406047

>it's happening!

>> No.36407789

That is a panther! In a disguised form!
Believe me!

>> No.36407809

It's the Leopantherd from Bridge Too Far!

>> No.36407877


>> No.36407956


I know that the joke has something to do with the large turret on the left panther, but I don't know what it is

>> No.36407969

What Joke? They sent me a blasted M-10 when I asked for a Panther Ausf. G

>> No.36407972

[sp]Germans disguised some of their Panthers as M10s around the Battle of the Bulge to confuse Americans.[/sp]

>> No.36407997

1. It is like Mötorhead ...the points look more evil
2. The original title of the movie "The Downfall" ist "Der Untergang". This way you bypass copyrightproblems

>> No.36408052

but randomly adding umlauts on words in a language that accually uses umlauts is ridiculusly retarded

>> No.36408062

also it's motörhead

>> No.36408111

ITT: No fun allowed

>> No.36408182

Acting retarded isn't really my cup of tea

You go ahead but personally I can't stand grammatical stupidity.

>> No.36408246


>> No.36409703

yeah yeah, next thing you'll tell me is that this isn't an M7 priest either. It even has an American soldier on it.

on an unrelated note, I'm really glad I wasn't in the battle of the Bulge. I don't know shit about baseball and I would have been shot as a German spy in a heartbeat.

>> No.36410185

Hey what color are Cromwells supposed to be? I know they were meant to be olive drab, but i always see them portrayed in a different shade as American tanks. Sometimes darker and bluer, other times more brown. So confused.

>> No.36410321

British OD was different from Yankee OD. Also, the paint job on a Tank is gonna be hugely variable based off of weathering, fading, dirt, poor quality repaints in the field, etc.

You'll also get cases where eg a museum has done an inaccurate paint job years ago and not changed it yet, and then others have copied them such that you end up with multiple different shades based on the whims of people repainting museum exhibits etc. The most famous example of this being Bovington's blue caunter camo.

>> No.36411330

>best Panther platoon evar!

best explanation i can give is that yank drab was a brown-purple combo that faded to a brownish-olive. the Brit drab was a dull olive brown that faded to a sort of mud color...

that really came off the top of my head, i'll attach a Vallejo PDF...

>> No.36412287

Just call it Götterdämmerung and reserve Downfall for an eventual What-If? Pacific theatre book.

>> No.36412700


"[MacArthur] also recommended that the [Commonwealth] corps should be organized along the lines of a US corps, should use only US equipment and logistics, and should train in the US for six months before deployment; these suggestions were accepted."

I really question why people think MacArthur is so great. That just seem like a bad waste of resources.

>> No.36412800


He was a fucking moron. The Pacific campaign won in spite of him.

>> No.36413268

Don't get me wrong, the yanks fought hard in the Pacific. But I feel like you would have had to really put some effort into losing against the japs. Didn't really seem like they had any offensive capability.

>> No.36413495

>Didn't really seem like they had any offensive capability.
They did at the start of the war. 6 Fleet Carriers(Akagi, Kaga, Souryuu, Hiryuu, Shoukaku, and Zuikaku) and 4 light carriers (Houshou(though she was mainly used to train pilots), Ryuujou, Shouhou, and Zuihou) make for a powerful force. The biggest problem for the Japs was that they could not replace their loses in ships and pilots easily like the Americans could.

>> No.36413512

>Don't get me wrong, the yanks fought hard in the Pacific. But I feel like you would have had to really put some effort into losing against the japs. Didn't really seem like they had any offensive capability.

Manchuria, China, Malaya, Indonesia, Philippines, various Islands, Ichi Go.

read more.

>> No.36413529

Warship production.

>> No.36414745

The Japanese had huge logistical problems. They weren’t fully industrialized; I remember reading that one of Mitsubishi’s factories producing the Zero used an ox cart to move the wings to the place where they’d be attached to the fuselage. In the Pacific, they had to build airstrips by hand whereas we had bulldozers. Their tank designs stagnated because they couldn’t build ships, planes, and tanks with the resources they had. They could move hundreds of thousands of soldiers across islands, but they couldn’t ship them the food they needed. It’s crazy just how far they got.

>> No.36415711

Japan in WW2 is a prime example as to why logistics win wars. Germany is an example as to why logistics win out against overengineering.

>> No.36415903

Apparently we’re getting a box that has three full plastic T-34 models and then three resin obr. 1940 turrets and three resin obr. 1941 turrets. You can’t switch between the two because the kits only have one large hatch, which both of those turrets used. But you can still assemble the later turrets that we’re all familiar with. It’s not much cheaper than the MW/LW kit and only has three instead of five, but it seems fair enough.

>> No.36416017


That is just way too simplified. You could not take on the yanks, soviets and britain in the 40s with an army of trucks and warehouses. The germans did not have the resources to fight at that scale.

>> No.36416225

If you can keep a war short, you can win without great logistics. It worked against France. But the distances in the USSR were too great for Germany's supply train. It really killed them on that front. I don't think even had enough gasoline to make it any deeper than they got.

>> No.36417497

>That is just way too simplified. You could not take on the yanks, soviets and britain in the 40s with an army of trucks and warehouses. The germans did not have the resources to fight at that scale.


I'm so glad you suit being a junior infantry officer.

>> No.36419932

>> No.36420532

I'm apopleptic with rage

>> No.36420571

Couldn't you just say it was painted for North Afrika? Wouldn't be too far off.

>> No.36420611

Far too rational for this place.

>> No.36420919

been in the sun and dusty, perfectly rational for dunkelgelb to look like that.

>> No.36421033

From re-reading the thread, that's what it was suppsoed to be - a DAK Panzer on one of the countless Gelbbraun shades.

And yet that one guy *still* got psychotically autismal about it.

>> No.36421361

Special dice tins are going the way of the dodo bird. Better grab whatever ones you think you might want now before they're gone. Good news is they're 50% off...


>> No.36421645

I ordered my Italian Dice months ago Battlefront, where are they?

>> No.36421969

my italian 47/32 AT guns are finally coming in, but it seems the LW CIL list is not. It's not like the RSI list has reasonable scope for 1900pts.

>> No.36422272

The gruppo esplorante is pretty solid at 1900, especially with the ibscene smount of cheap pak43s they can pack in.

>> No.36422316

>Far too rational for this place.

FoWtg is significantly more rational than the official forums.


I must be missing something... Is it the color, the hatch, spokes on the wheel? Why would that tank be worthy of a rivet-counting sperglord shitstorm?

>> No.36422388

There's no such thing as an obscene amount of Pak43s.
The tank itself.
The response.

>> No.36422398


I believe it was the colour that set people off...

>> No.36422783

Again with that lazy truism.

>> No.36422898

The real horror only sets in once you realise all the Ciclisti Platoons are recce teams.

>> No.36422991

I thought that said Fortress Europe for a moment there and I was like mentally six sentences into an angry tirade.

>> No.36423015


Assuming the enemy is also incapable and fighting in a very small area. France was a quick campaign because the French couldn't find their asses with both hands, and the Germans had strategic surprise and a far more experienced military at the time.

>> No.36423021

>that archived thread

Wow... It's bee quite a while since I've seen that much nerd-rage over over something so insignificant.

>> No.36423072

Hey guys, the warstore has a bunch of flames stuff on sale for 30% off right now. May not be worth it for Europe and upsidedownland, but they have very cheap shipping in the states.

>PSC isn't on sale though.

>> No.36423198

being of europeland is suffering

>> No.36423564

i get paid on friday...i have other things to buy....


>> No.36423756

got PayPal? They do a PayPal credit thing where you can pay installments interest free for 6 months if you spend over $100. I may or may not have justified dropping over $300 because of that

In other news, I'm the proud owner of an entire new 7th Armoured Division Cromwell army. That's going to be one heavy fucking box considering everything in it is resin and metal except the PSC Brit infantry. I couldn't help it, they even had the British Cromwell company box at $60 off, and it came with literally everything I was wanting.

Just about the only thing keeping me from getting a Jordanian army is I have no idea what the new list looks like (and yes, all the Jordan stuff is 30% off or more too).

>> No.36425319

How many tanks are in the new T-34 box?

>> No.36425342

3. As can clearly be seen.

>> No.36425428

Art imitates life.

>> No.36425612


12, moron. Did you even look at the box?

>> No.36425636

Bicycle. Bicycle. Bicycle. I want to ride my...

>> No.36426833

To answer a question I posed several threads ago :
Camo before Quickshade is definitely incorrect and the pattern is impossible to make out. Repainting the pattern after the Quickshade might lead to it drawing the eye to the camo too much but that's no tragedy.

>> No.36427289

source, ffs? i love hearing old wargamer stories!

>> No.36427448

That's from Armored Thunderbolt by Steven Zaloga.

>> No.36428217

So played my first ever Late War game last night as we had our Thanksgiving Throwdown at the LGS. Italians v. Americans, 1900 points, some reinforcements as our Grand Commanders saw fit.

Game went pretty well and was fairly evenly balanced for a while. My mortars were killing infantry left and right(surprisingly), but one of my infantry platoons got steamrolled by tanks and assaults(seriously, how do you guys manage with platoons of only 6 stands?) and my arty did some good work. Had some PaK40's which took out a few Shermans, but they eventually got overrun. Ambushed a platoon of 3 Panthers who got two rounds of shooting before my least favorite rule in the entire game came into play: tank destroyer ambush. FUCK. THAT. RULE. Seriously, fucking AT13 guns that just get to pop out of jeeps? Shit's annoying and way too good in my opinion.

Anyway; turn five saw the turning point in favor of the allies. All three of my Panther's died(one took a shot in the side from a Wolverine, one took a front shot and I rolled a 1 for armor, the third failed the morale check), the last of PaKs got wiped off the table, my mortars got assaulted, my other Infantry platoon went down to the last two Shermans, both my 88's(who once again failed to hit ANYTHING) got dropped and at the end of turn 7 or so we called it because it literally became impossible for me to win.

Still, despite the stupid fucking Wolverines, I had fun. Having so few infantry stands seems kind of shitty. Between two rifle platoons I had a grand 12 stands, and once they got MG fire or assaulted they went down with ease. I sort of thought Veterans were supposed to be retarded hard to take down. My mortar platoon was my MVP without a doubt, and my LVP was the 88's. Yeah they were shooting Vets at long range, but over the course of 5 turns of shooting 6 shots between them they never once rolled a hit. I had three rounds of shooting them into a Sherman's side armor and they failed miserably.

Still; fun game.

>> No.36428525


>only 2 infantry platoons at 1900 points
Well there's your problem. Take some pioneers. 10 bases of FUCK YOU is always good for a defensive line. Plus flamethrowers are a beautiful tool for going on the offensive. A few mortars for smoke, and you're golden.

>vets hard to take down
From shooting while dug in, yeah. You basically have to assault them.

>> No.36428610

Are french in flames of war?

>> No.36428623


yes early war as their own army and mid-late war as an American equipped force (possibly also german equipped frenchmen in berlin?)

>> No.36428930

Well I was working with what I had available model wise, too.

I should have started further back, but my secondary objective demanded I get up the table as quickly as possible. My primary was simple enough, but with no turn limit my opponent had the ability to pick me apart bit by bit until I just about had nothing that could hurt his tanks and he auto-won essentially. I think if there had been a "hold this until the end of turn 5" then the game would have gone better for me, but then again those 560 points worth of Panthers not dying in a single salvo would have helped too.

I don't think I'll be running Late War Italians again, though. Just weren't as fun as the crazy early and mid war shit. I'll totally be doing Hungarians and Finns, though, in late still.

>> No.36428991

I thought the US-equipped Free French were a Late War army.

>> No.36429022

it sounds like your opponent knew what to do, and that you had horrid luck trying to out-pace him.

i recommend some vet recon to try and out-space those tank destroyers and other ambushes...

>> No.36429046


>and mid-late war as an American equipped force

...I think he said that

>> No.36429096

My mind read "mid-late war" as Mid-War.

>> No.36429207


Tank Destroyers are really OP but since everyone plays americans it somehow passes under the radar. Late war M10s could go up to a 150 points at least. Top armor should be atleast ten points per vechicle. And don't get me started on the Towed Tank Destroyers.

>> No.36429230


no worries

though I wonder if they were updated in a book (or had their pdf brought up to par)

>> No.36429284

They're available in Road to Rome (close to as recent as it gets), and their pdf on the homepage seems to be up to par as well.

>> No.36429387


It's a WW2 game. Abso-fucking-lutely the French are in it.

>started further back
Don't be so certain. Often times it's useful to be able to fall back a few times and still contest the objective.
Fuck Yes. Best army.

They're not OP. They're expensive, fragile, and damn near useless against infantry. They're good to have, but after the nerfs, and particularly considering that they usually just turn up as a single platoon, they're fine.

>> No.36429676

I'm thinking of doing 2eme DB for my late war force for FoW, either a Compagnie de Chars de Combat or the armored infantry based on the Republican Spanish 9th company.

Are they an alright choice or am I going to be struggling against Fritz's armor?

>> No.36429735


It's feasible. A little bland, but totally doable.

>> No.36430255

I've been thinking about it, too. You're effectively "Americans with French rules". You get stuff like Infantry that dig in really well, and can deal a shit ton of defensive fire dice if set up right. But all your Shermans are 75mm ones with the odd 76mm M4A3 in as a gun tank. Everything is Vet though, so you got that going for you.

>> No.36430289

The funny thing is, without the US tank destroyer rules, they're fucking worthless. Look at how many Soviet and Brit players will take US TDs? Next to none. US TDs are only worth taking in US lists.

>> No.36430477


The 75mm Shermans is what makes me hesitate.

>> No.36430757

I've seen Brit players take their version of the M10 that has a 17pdr.

>> No.36430849

Oh, and for context it's not really a "wargamer" story? It's about the war games the US Army used in ~1940 to practice their doctrine and equipment and stuff.

>> No.36430859


Why? They're similar but cheaper to Panzer 4s, and they always make a decent showing.

>> No.36430974

plus they have 50. Cals and smoke, which are pretty damn handy in their own right.

>> No.36430986

>my least favorite rule in the entire game came into play: tank destroyer ambush. FUCK. THAT. RULE. Seriously, fucking AT13 guns that just get to pop out of jeeps? Shit's annoying and way too good in my opinion.
You should just play around it.

Seriously, it's a powerful mechanic when you just sit there and let him do it but if you use your recce well and/or successfully engage the jeeps it's not so nasty. Plus, they are paying extra (370 for 4 M10 3" USTDs vs 290 for 4 M10 3" Royal Artillery) for the mechanic which puts a lot of points into a flimsy platoon that relies on its powerful alpha strike to do anything of note.

>taking only twelve stands of combat platoon infantry at 1900pts
Fucking hell, even a Grenadierkompanie gets fourteen. With platoons that small you should seriously be considering multiple platoons, large support platoons of infantry and/or combat attaching to bulk up numbers to reasonable sizes.

>> No.36431021


Much like aircraft, their value lies as much in how they affect your opponent's movement as in what they actually kill. Stick 'em in some concealing terrain back from the front line with a decent field of fire and they can be golden as your opponent manoeuvres to avoid them.

>> No.36431470

The list I was using has no access to recon as far as I can see.

The problem with the M10 thing is that even if you blow up the jeeps the TD's still show up. And he was able to keep the jeeps back in cover and out of LoS until he had pushed through my front line and then rolled up, popped out the M10's and wasted three Panthers in two rounds of shooting. My Panthers got one shot off at them and did nothing due to horrible rolling. It just sucks because the jeeps are small and easy to hide which makes getting to them before they get to prime placement a bitch and a half on a properly dense table. I think if my 88's had been able to take out that Sherman I could have moved my other infantry platoon over to cover the other flank and left my arty, 88's and PaKs to clean up his Shermans.

Demolisher platoon is only 6 stands. It's also 100 points cheaper than a Falschrimpoineer platoon. I wanted to ensure I had proper AT in my list because I just knew those fucking Shermans would be there.

>> No.36431517


Oh, Itallians, right.

Yeah, you get what you pay for. Motherfuckers, thy name is FJP.

>> No.36431689

Agreed. FJP are some of the nastiest bastards the germans can get, and they are worth it. why not spend up for them?

there are times when i think "this is the theme option" or "it's cheaper to bring X instead"
then you loose like a bitch, and you start really weighing the quality of how you spend points...

>> No.36431895

>The list I was using has no access to recon as far as I can see.
Then by choosing that list you're actively choosing to make yourself weaker to USTDs. If the counter to USTDs is recon and you pick one of the few lists with no recon you don't really have grounds to complain about USTDs beating you since you decided to let USTDs beat you when you decided to take that briefing.
>The problem with the M10 thing is that even if you blow up the jeeps the TD's still show up.
Okay, but they're reorganizing so you get a turn to shoot at them and 4/2/0 vehicles don't last long under pressure.

>Demolisher platoon is only 6 stands. It's also 100 points cheaper than a Falschrimpoineer platoon. I wanted to ensure I had proper AT in my list because I just knew those fucking Shermans would be there.
It kinda looks like this didn't pay off and that you may have been better with the FJP? Like, it seems as if you've perhaps sacrificed too much to get those AT guns on the table.

>> No.36432530

>The list I was using has no access to recon as far as I can see.

Yeah, well, that's Paracadutisti for you. It's pretty much the worst LW italian list.

All the other LW italian lists have access to recce. Ciclisti, motociclisti, armoured cars.

Hell, the gruppo esplorante's combat platoons are composed entirely of Recce teams, and have cheap and excellent AT support.

>> No.36432627

Yea, just look at that list >>36422388

4 platoons with recce teams, 8 PaK43s, 2 arty platoons, Pioneers, HMGs, 10 total platoons. Looks like the best LW Italian list possible to me.

>> No.36432921

Ideally it could stand to make the arty 100/17s and use the points to get a PSV.

>> No.36433031

>I don't think I'll be running Late War Italians again, though.

At risk of sounding rude; i'm just going to put this out there - you didn't play LW Italians. It looks for all the world like you just took a giant expensive blob of German support with a bit of Italian infantry as backup.

You want wacky and fun like EW/MW? Run a list that isn't 90% German allies like Fanteria or Esplorante.

>> No.36433404

>They're not OP. They're expensive, fragile, and damn near useless against infantry. They're good to have, but after the nerfs, and particularly considering that they usually just turn up as a single platoon, they're fine.

With top armor they are not useless against infantry as they can take improvised armor and fight in assaults like veteran tanks. Also if you think a 0.5cal and a fp3+ gun is useless against infantry I don't know what to tell you. It is not that they break the game just like Carius costing 25 points instead of 100 would not break the game. They are way too good for what you pay for them right now and are among the key components in the massive dominance of american lists in open competitions.

>The funny thing is, without the US tank destroyer rules, they're fucking worthless. Look at how many Soviet and Brit players will take US TDs?

You mean you have never seen Marders in play? Because I find them pretty common.

>> No.36433458


3 veteran panthers can't cost 560 points if you can get 4 veteran M10s with US TD rules for 405 points. They need to fix this.

>> No.36433571

>You mean you have never seen Marders in play? Because I find them pretty common.
Marders live and die by their Stormtrooper roll. Do you know of any non-german TDs that have Stormtrooper?

3 veteran panthers can't cost 560 points if you can get 4 veteran M10s with US TD rules for 405 points. They need to fix this.
You're telling me that something that is more or less immune to non-dedicated AT assets should not be more expensive than something that is in dire straights from a drive-by recce patrol?

>> No.36433590

Mission tactics, stormtrooper, higher armor values, etc all contribute to the higher points value.

>> No.36433610

Not to mention Wide Tracks, allowing them to scoot around in cover that much more easily...

>> No.36433684

>Marders live and die by their Stormtrooper roll.
Only if you're a scrub who relies on a crutch to perform.

>> No.36434135

Marders, with Stormtroop, are not Wolverines or Hellcats.

And even amongst Soviet players, you're more likely to see SU-85s or SU-76s before you'll see a LendLease M10.

>> No.36434181

Why can't they cost 560pts when 4 M10s cost 405pts?

>> No.36434258


about the only time taking lendlease wouldn't be better than going Russia-made...

>> No.36434562

Wouldn't quite be the case if T-34/85s kept their wide tracks, or if Fast Tank was actually worth having.

>> No.36434670

T-34 Tankovy has been perfectly fine since the RBr revision.

>> No.36434714

Try the magical Gruppo Esplorante list above, it's hilariously stupid and effective at the same time.

>> No.36435349

So, I'm looking at putting together an Indian Recce Squadron and trying to decide which armor support option to take - Churchills, American armor, or British 76mm. Kinda leaning toward Churchil,s, but Stuarts or 76mm Shermans sound fun too.

>> No.36435408

Losing smoke would hurt, though and the LeFHs are his only source for it.

>> No.36435532

what do you feel you need? Churchills would bully medium tanks really well but 76mm Shermans would be better for killing heavier tanks.

>> No.36435571

Churchill III/IV Lates for general support and wrecking mediums

76s (brit or yank) for anti-heavy duty.

Stuarts are a bit hit-or-miss, but are at least cheap.

>> No.36435576

Except for the part where they made Matildas so stupidly cheap that it's become the go-to spam option.

I'm not saying T-34 doesn't work now, just that it'd be nice if they didn't penalize the 85 by removing it's Wide Tracks, and made Fast Tank worth the extra points you spend to get it.

>> No.36435611

Either, really. I coUld take heavy armored cars to shoot mediums, but that'd make them rather fragile. I think I want to go with Churchills just for the super Britishness.

>> No.36435653

And Matildas can't kill anything either, and despite TA2 aren't spectacular assaulters like you'd assume.

They were popular for one brief round of US tournaments, and people then immediately stopped giving a shit about them in favour of things with actual guns.

The new cheap heavy meta has been utterly punishing to the few holdouts that stuck with them, too.

Matilda spam hasn't been a thing for ages.

>> No.36435695

Well, duh. The only thing more obnoxious than Matilda spam, is Reluctant Trained Jagdtiggers led by captain laser. Still, you are far more likely to see a shit ton of Matildas, over a T-34 horde. Especially when the Matildas have access to 10 SU-100s. That's even leas fucking historical than Tank Escorts on IS-85s.

>> No.36435754


IS-85s cant take TEs you dolt...

>> No.36435764

>Still, you are far more likely to see a shit ton of Matildas, over a T-34 horde
Everything i've seen indicates that T-34s are more common. Everyone I saw who tried Matilda spam got rid of it in disgust after it proved a flop in practice compared to theory, whereas It's ar are day I see a Soviet player without T-34s of some kind.

I suspect we're influenced by our local metas in perception though.

>> No.36435944

>Tank Escorts on IS-85s
IS-85s can't take tank escorts. Only IS-2s can.

>> No.36436018

Your criteria of strength against non dedicated at asset is of no use. Plenty of things that kill panthers are cheap and common in late war. And any recce that can kill m10s from the front can kill panthers from the side. M10s cannot die before they are deployed from deep strike. They are more survivable, snooty and cheap.

>> No.36436188

Recce "kills" the M10s by preventing a favourable decloak, not by shooting them.

>> No.36436264

trying to save some prepainted terrain

right is before
left is after

>> No.36436273

And you have actually done that? Prevented a decloak completely and annihilating them?

>> No.36436336

You dun good

>> No.36436422

Very few US players round here and those that do don't run USTDs, so no.

>> No.36436539

Oh. What do you get to play against most? I use veteran m10s in my lw US rifle all the time. They punch way too far above their weight and my dream of running a company of them without needing to apologize looks slim.

>> No.36436664

Does google Play allow more than one app with the same name?


>> No.36436846

in Labamba man's defense: you can also handle USTD's by assault. however, they had better be damn close to those security sections.

i think he implied that. "ahistorical"

>> No.36436949

useless anecdote tiem

>November, 1931. First three BT-2 tanks, designed and produced in Kharkiv, were allowed to participate in a military parade on the Red Square in Moscow. One of them caught fire.

>> No.36436967

>not the gif
What the fuck man?

>> No.36436971

that was supposed to be a gif

>> No.36436984


huh didn't quite catch that

but then again who really tends to read that much into soviet bitching?

>> No.36437020

>Don't worry comrade, is feature!
>Is defense mechanism for protecting against racist infantry!

>> No.36437106

>racist infantry
my schürtzen have been obliterated

>> No.36437267

You guys, I have someone you should meet... He's the point!

>> No.36437268



kek I think you meant fascist comaraden

>> No.36437296 [DELETED] 


hey did you here about that guy...who was a lame faggot its you btw

>> No.36437306


Are those burned tankers smoking on the ground behind that tank?

>> No.36437345

What's the matter, mad that you have no reading comprehension?

>> No.36437358


whats the matter...mad you chose the shitty faction?

>> No.36437383

I play Italians(EW and MW), Germans(all eras), and Brits(EW and MW) actually, but nice try.

>> No.36437543


then why do you give a shit about ahistorical soviet armies?

leave the bitching to players who have already invested themselves financially and emotionally into soviets...

>> No.36437557

holy shit I think so. Damn, never noticed that

>> No.36437593

Because I'm not >>36435695 retard, I just like making fun of you.

>> No.36437618


well then go fuck yourself shitcunt

>> No.36437788


" ....LOVE IS IN THE AIR!!!!! "

>> No.36437816


dayum dat revolver

>> No.36437832

if my 1iC is a tonk, can he join a platoon in reserve or must he deploy?
>assuming the scenario uses reserves

>> No.36438173

why would you want to screw yourself that way? it's usually better to have as many elements on the table as you can

>> No.36438574

I am sure you can imagine a scenario where this is preferable.

So does anybody know?

>> No.36438951

i dunno, wanting the major outflank with a fuck-ton of loaded dice?

reserves is unreliable, moreso than planes
>>new thread

>> No.36441388

At the last German open the best three were soviets with mat spam

>> No.36441426


Much better, the left stuff looks good.

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