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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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[ERROR] No.35134216 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why are tabletop games a modern invention?

What was stopping something like D&D from happening a hundred or even 800 years ago? Literacy rates notwithstanding.

>> No.35134239

In before Little Wars.

>> No.35134265

>>35134216
>Tabletop a modern invention

Dude, it's proven that Romans already played chess (or a game similar to it)

Also all the grown ups had too much to do during the day than sit around a table playing Caverns and Cobolds. And the little ones didn't need to, since they could all play with their imagination

>> No.35134310

>>35134216
Do you mean tabletop board games or RPGs with pen and paper and little else?

>> No.35134312

>>35134265
I wasn't referring to Chess, or checkers, or backgammon. Though those would count as a tabletop game.

I meant something like 40K or D&D. Has there been an incarnation of anything similar beforehand? I refuse to believe that adults wanting to play childrens games is a new invention.

>> No.35134326

>>35134216
Literacy. Rules require simplicity or writing down, so despite your inb4 its not easy for the GAmes to develop. Sure, there was role-playing, and you had games like chess and Saxon chess, but these were simple oral tradition.

>> No.35134331

>>35134312
Again, Little Wars. And the decades of miniatures that followed it.

>> No.35134349

>>35134216
Because they were too busy slaying Dragons, Giants, cyclops and gods too be pretending about doing aforementioned acts.

>> No.35134367

>>35134331
That's still 1913, that's still fairly recent.

Was there any sort of established codex in say, the 1800s?

>> No.35134775

>>35134216

Because back in ye olden days, LARP simply was much more popular.

>> No.35134838

>>35134216
Many small towns couldn't afford a proper dicesmith to create the dice they needed to play. Without dice, no /tg/.

>> No.35134865

When you really cook them down to their essencem gladiatorial fights were the first big LARP events in recorded history.

They were after all basically fat dudes in fantasy armour pretending to be representatives of dead cultures.

>> No.35135164

Chess is certainly the best example of a long-lived game, and in a sense it is an abstracted war game. The same could be said of go, or even card games. The thing is that in an era before standardisation, literacy, mass production and consumerism, for a game to thrive it needed both rules and pieces that were relatively straightforward. The wealthy might have been able to devote the time and money to coming up with something, but until the modern era there was no real market for tabletop gaming which could have been carved out.

>> No.35135745

>>35134216
Far less people in the "have spare money and free time" sector?
And the ones that had those had other forms of entertainment. Like good food, alcohol, company, sex, hunting, travelling etc.

>> No.35136271

>>35134216
More importantly: If we invent time travel and introduce medieval peasants to RPGs (let's just say we also teach them how to read or something), how does history change?

>> No.35136287

>>35134838
Sorry, but there are systems that use cards as the random mechanic.

>> No.35136308

Tabletop games are not a modern invention.

>> No.35136379

>>35136271
Peasants don't have time to play rpg's, teaching them to read would have impact but rpg's wouldn't really change anything

>> No.35136401

>>35136308
This.
China was playinh card games in the 800s and dominoes and other games before that.

>> No.35136427

>>35136401
The early Chinese card games even had pictures of heroes from books on them. They were literally character cards.

>> No.35136433

>>35134367
Because until recent history people were more preoccupied with not fucking dying than playing with miniatures.

>> No.35136462

>>35134216

No electric lights means no basement dwellers.

>> No.35136489

>>35134367
Little Wars wasn't the first wargame, just the first one marketed to children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsspiel_%28wargame%29

>> No.35136499

>>35134216
Primarily that up until the ~ the last 80 years, people were far too busy doing ball-bustingly hard labour to bother with much recreation.

You would be genuinely amazed at how much stuff in life is now heavily automated or machine assisted... and if it's not we've outsourced it to poor as shit countries where we pay people less than 12$ a month to do our hard as fuck work for us.

>> No.35136527

>>35136499
Oh, and wars. Wars have been major killers of recreation.

>> No.35136824

They were faffing about roleplaying in ~400 BC. See "Atellan Farce". They even had classes! Sort of. Mean Guy, Fat Guy, Greedy Clown, Agile Guy and Old Guy!

Sure, it was technically improvisational theatre, but still.

>> No.35136861

>>35134216
C'mon OP, do a little looking around. Gygax didn't invent anything, He's just a time traveler.

http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/551072

>> No.35138103

>>35134216
travel, free time
they couldn't afford weekly games that took a whole day
not to mention people were retarded by today's standards

>> No.35138120

>>35138103
No they weren't retarded.

>> No.35138358

>>35134239
That's a funny read

>> No.35138515

>>35134216
Because measurement wasn't standardized and precise enough to bother yet?

>> No.35138625

I wonder if there were Roman That Guy's

>> No.35138719

>>35138625
>I wonder if there were Roman That Guy's

>> No.35138975

>>35138625
Secundus
http://www.pompeiana.org/resources/ancient/graffiti%20from%20pompeii.htm

>> No.35139053

>>35136427
Seconded. From what I heard, early Chinese cards were illustrated as heroes from the Water Margin books. There are 108 heroes, so you can say that it was a collectible card game.

>> No.35139058

>>35138975
>>35138719
Not really what I meant

>> No.35142658

>>35138719
>>35138975
What about Nero? He even has a fucking neckbeard.

>> No.35143040

>>35138975

It should be noted that "Secundus" was more a title than a name, like "Junior." It designated the second, non-inheriting son. Who was frequently a wild child since he didn't have to worry as much about The Family Name and all.

>>35134216

I seem to recall somewhere that the Bronte sisters had a game they played together, in which they built a fictional history of a sort of fantasy kingdom through its major characters.

The roots of RPGs run pretty deep, IMO, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are far older sources we don't know about.
It wasn't until Victorian times that people started taking games seriously enough to write the rules down in books with any regularity. Prior to that, our knowledge gets kind of spotty, a lot like the fossil record -- llike we have plenty of records about X, but only some pieces of Y and Z, and merely vague hints at other games that existed.

>> No.35146184

>>35134312
> 40k and D&D are children's games

> I wasn't referring to chess, I meant something like early 40k

4/10 hotglue a goat-porn-only oculus rift to your head.

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