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[ERROR] No.33473965 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

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>Welcome back to /srg/, chummer

Shoot Straight
Conserve Ammo
Never Cut a Deal of a Dragon

Old /srg/ is kill, long live /srg/

>> No.33474022

>Dunkelzhan used Life Magic when he arranged his own assassination to sacrifice himself to create the Dragonheart which allowed the re-balancing of mana levels

>use so MUCH blood magic all at once on the sight of the Great Ghost Dance that it caused a mana spike so powerful that in that ONE AREA it created a "Bridge" that allowed the Horrors to show up thousands of years head of schedule. This plain failed
What books did you get this lore from?

>> No.33474051

Damn you, I wanted to make the third SRG in a row

>> No.33474058


>> No.33474145

Previous thread, talking about qualities and issues.

One of my players has alcohol addiction. Another is uncouth. All are relatively new to the game, so I know they weren't gaming the system.

For alcoholism I can figure out ways to use that (resist going overboard when meeting Mr. Johnson, resist stealing alcohol when on stealth-type missions, things like that). Uncouth though... the player in question has no interest in the roleplaying side of the game anyway, and I feel like if I start imposing penalties for social situations he'll just end up having his character not come along whenever talking is part of the scene. What are ways I can have uncouth affect him without it seeming bullshitty?

>> No.33474190

Could have it affect his relationship with any contacts he has, so they aren't willing to go the extra mile for him

>> No.33474204

I posted this over in the other thread, but it was almost kill when I did.

Three of my five players are playing characters who are completely unacquainted with life in the shadows. Our face is a spoiled corp kid barely scraping legal drinking age who's trying to spite daddy for cutting him off, our wizard is a recently laid-off wagemage from a corporate
arcology taking desperate measures to feed her son, and our Technomancer is a teenage girl trying to build herself a college fund.

The last campaign I ran was full of street hardened chummers, gangers, and war veterans, so we took most the uglier aspects of the setting as a part of day-to-day life. These were guys who were used to seeing shootouts, death, and drugs on a regular basis. Not so much this time, though.

With a lot of the crew this time around having no direct experience with the kind of stuff shadowrunning puts you in contact with, I'm considering a lot more composure checks for the grittier stuff.

I'm thinking a "hard" composure test on the first fresh corpse the green members of the crew see, a "very hard" composure test for the first killing they actively witness, and an "extreme" composure test for the first killing they actively commit, with the threshold for each of those decreasing by one for all future rolls each time they pass the composure check.

Is that reasonable? Sould I vary it between players a bit? Maybe bump the checks down a bit for the ex wagemage, since she's probably received some sort of formal training on how to deal with tense situations even though she's never seen combat. At the very least, a middle-class teenage girl should be making some pretty hard tests to keep her composure after realizing she's taken another person's life, right?

>> No.33474216

what? no, the specific shadowrun plotpoints mentioned, not the general bloodmagic stuff

>> No.33474279

Honestly, just because the player doesn't have any interest in playing a social character doesn't mean uncouth isn't still a penalty.

Your character is basically incapable at any social situation, which is a useful thing to be good at even if you aren't the team's talky guy.

>> No.33474289

Trust issues aside, is there anything in the rules that prohibit me from hiring a magician to make a mana lodge for me while I go do things?

>> No.33474322

Absolutely. Maybe the wage mage should be slightly more comfortable around dead bodies, depends on where she worked and what she did before hand

>> No.33474324

Reposting from last thread. Awaiting answers.

In what case can allergy be legitametly used as a negative quality? The best I've got is an allergy, moderate, to bee stings for a Chicago campaign, and the only other one I have (Allergy, moderate, soybeans) seems like either an easy enough thing to ignore for an increase in lifestyle costs (take pills, you'll be fine) or require major attention to food during a Johnson meet (apparently this restaurant prepares their krill paste near the soy processors, take a -4 to all rolls for the next four in game hours).

>> No.33474359

You can use seawater in a Seattle game, sunlight, pollutants, and stuff like gold for electronics.

>> No.33474384

Allergy could be applied to common parts of medical drugs, so standard issues painkilllers and stuff won't work, making DocWagon contracts more expensive and field medicine riskier

>> No.33474451

Even if the wage mage worked in astral security they should probably still make the roll regardless.

Because either a) she hasn't been exposed to the brutality of runs and would fall under thesame heading as the other two FNGs or b) she HAS seen how bloody runs can get from the other side of the fence and now is the one perpetrating such monsterous acts. Either of those should be enough to rattle anyone who isn't the like of a hardened gangbanger or professional merc.

>> No.33474648

Sounds decent, although maybe something AFTER the fact might be better. What you do in the heat of the moment is one thing, but the stress and realisation AFTERWARDS, after the fight is what gives you the shakes and nightmares.

Yeah, uncouth is beyond just inadequate, it's just about auto-fail if they haven't spend a lot of points to the contrary. A guard checking their ID, someone asking them something, intimidation checks sometimes, negociation, etc. Sure, they can sit there and sulk in the van during non-fighting bits, but yeah, it seriously limits the ability of the group to use the player.


Soy's a decent one. Something like gunpowder might be another. Powder burns, etc when you're using firearms being more of a hassle. Maybe something like tear gas, or narcojet? Something that'd normally incapacitate or blind you actually kills you, sort of thing.

Seconding that anon that said sunlight and pollutants, they're great ones for common. Grass is another good one, depending on the setting.

Antibiotic allergies aren't that unheard of in real life, either, and definitely complicate things.

>> No.33474769

That's the thing, I'm stuck because the only way I have to "punish" him for taking the negative quality is to exclude him from the group half the time, which isn't punishing the character, it's punishing the player. The best case scenario is him having to come up with alternate ways to infiltrate than disguises and such (which would actually be pretty cool), the worst case scenario is he's the backup who only shows up when things have only gone to shit.

>> No.33474773


What about Sensitive System? Would that be considered a copout quality for magic focused characters who never plan on getting cyberware?

>> No.33474783

What penalties should I impose for failed checks to make these situations particularly impactful without completely crippling the character? The 4E core book is kind of vague on the effects - it recommends anywhere between the characters freezing up to pissing themselves depending on the situation.

Let's say Corp Kid's silver tongue fails him while trying to charm a sprawl ganger, forcing the group's street samurai to to step in to save him and the kid ends up seeing a ganger take a predator round to the head for the first time. Or let's say the high schooler accidentally gets cornered and is forced to put a few rounds into an ork to save herself.

Should there be mechanical penalties to failing the composure rolls for this stuff, like some sort of temporary status effect or something along those lines, or should I leave it at something like "you throw up" and let them handle the rest through roleplaying?

>> No.33474825

That's dealt with in 5e, at least, where you have to make a Willpower test against threshold 2 every time you'd suffer drain, where failure means +2 to drain value.

Of course, adepts who don't take drain-y powers suffer not from this, so in that case I'd step in as GM and say no.

>> No.33474830

I'd advise against this altogether, unless your players are absolutely okay with it being part of their characters and the game in general - otherwise, rolling not to shit yourself every time you get in combat isn't going to be much fun (as realistic as it may be).

>> No.33474927

They're totally on board for it - they actively expressed interest in playing characters who went through the process of gradually becoming acclimated to the culture of the shadows, and I find it a really interesting concept that I haven't seen played out a lot, so I'm on board for figuring out the best way of making it work.

>> No.33474954


That's the issue with the quality. It's not just an interesting in game complication like being not very good at something, it's a general vigorous fucking of the planning and 'what would a regular human be able to do here' dimensions. He could always pretend to be mute. Or missing vocal chords or something. Depends on you and the player, really. If you think HE can keep it interesting, then it could work, but if he's just taking it for points, I'd probably consider urging him to try other methods. There's a quality that gives you a -1/-2/-3 to social stuff IIRC in one of the books.

Pretty much, although to be fair a single point of 'ware isn't unknown amongst PC mages, and SS basically rules that out. If they never plan on getting any though, then yeah, it's free BP. Same with counter-matrix stuff like that one that makes you more sensitive to BTLs and Black ICE. Even with the BP/karma discount for non-matrix characters it's still basically cost-free.

Something like temporary Combat Paralysis? Reduced initiative. Or a penalty to measured tasks due your nervousness/panic. Maybe LATER when they're confronted with a similar situation they might have to roll to avoid freezing/ducking for cover and staying there.

>> No.33475032

Basically, the uncouth guy should be more or less entirely incapable of having a normal conversation with someone. Small talk is likely to get him into a fight, and god help him if Lone Star ever stops him to ask what he's doing, because it's entirely likely to end with a bounty on his head. Avoiding social situations shouldn't get him out of Uncouth. If it really becomes an issue, consider making him buy off the quality, but if you really want to let him keep it, do it the way the book suggests - make him roll for even the most basic social situations. He should have to work not to tell Mr. Johnson his name is "Fuck off."

>> No.33475117

In that case, go for it! Definitely modify the rolls based on what each character is likely to have been trained for/seen, and the idea of lowering the threshold to simulate gradual 'hardening' of the characters sounds good. Consider not having them make really tough tests in the middle of battle, though - the suggestion that you have them make hard tests later might work, if it's combined with moderate-level tests during battle.

>> No.33475279


Not entirely related to this debacle, but when I made my current character I talked with my GM about my mage using tattoos as spell fetishes.

This might seem like a copout at first, but then he realized (as I expected he would) that any bullet or hell, even blood that damages the tattoo in any way would make it useless, so we actually got a kinda interesting thing of it.

I quote "I enjoy giving my players all the rope they want to hang themselves with".


Semi-related, I don't think social skill use is that important for out of mission interactions or any non-important/non-official ones, but it should be exploited for the kinda comedy potential it has too.

I mean sure, during a run when you're trying to pass off as not suspicious, or trying to blend in, or doing any conversation, it's supposed to serve as an impedement, and if it does that and actually affects the plans or situation of the team because of it, then I'd say the quality is doing its job (and shouldn't be constantly used as ammo against the player even when it's not important). That said, this requires the character has ample interactions to begin with, and doesn't intend on taking the quality and then playing the silent, mostly absent guy who goes along and never says anything.

Our group's hacker has uncouth, and she is absolutely blunt in every social interaction she is involved in, not to mention with the subtlety and sensitivity of a brick. But the character is very confrontational, so this is not something that we get to see only every once in a while, it's always in the front row. Our Fixer knows us, so he's not offended by her absolute lack of tact and disregard for others in her attitute, but in future meets directly with Johnsons that don't know us, I suspect it will bring us some... interesting situations.

>> No.33475432

That sounds (to me, at least) like a perfectly reasonable and potentially hilarious use of Uncouth.

>> No.33475526

In addition to that, could I use the Channeling or Invoking metamagic on an Ally Spirit?

>> No.33475903

The information on Dunkelzahn's Life Magic ritual and his later existence as a Free Spirit can be found in one of those old 2e novels. It think it's one of the ones with Ryan Mercury (the first Drake) in it.

The act of Balancing the Mana Levels at the site of the Great Ghost Dance is performed by the players with the assistance of Harlequin in the 2e adventure "Harlequin's Back", where you do all the work in the Metaplanes while he gets the shit beaten out of him by Shadow-Spirits.

>> No.33475943

Channeling only works when the Spirit is Summoned.
And your GM is a schmuck if he lets you power up an Ally Spirit by Invoking it when you summon it.

>> No.33476237

What's the over/under of the shadowrun MMO coming out on steam actually being good?

>> No.33476766

For the In Debt negative quality, if the debt is payed off in cash fully, does it still need to be bought off with karma?

>> No.33476772

thx. I'm currently Reading the "Shadowplay" shadowrun novel, but I'll get there eventually. Plan on reading through all the adventures too when I get the chance. 20 years of heavy metaplot development is tricky to get completely familiar with

>> No.33476846

It's not specified in the book, but it wouldn't make sense to have to buy it off with both Karma and nuyen - as long as your player's paid the amount borrowed plus the interest, that should be the end of it.

>> No.33476865

Is that an MMO? I thought it was basically Shadowrun Returns: Now With Multiplayer Functionality

>> No.33476987

That's what an MMO is...

MMO stands for "massively multiplayer online"

>> No.33477032

Not the guy you responded to, but there's a difference between playing co-op or deathmatch, and a public, persistent world.

>> No.33477084

Yeah, and I was thinking it was going to be a co-op story game.

>> No.33477101

I don't know anything about what's being talked about so I just assumed it was an actual MMO

>> No.33477197

It's a negative quality, not a free cash and karma quality.

Yes, you have to buy it off, and your gm is within rights by the rule book to enforce a karma payout if you remove the "negative" of a negative quality.

>> No.33477215

RAW you've got to buy it off with Karma and Nuyen.

But if you don't want to pay it off with Karma the GM can convert it into some other form of Negative Quality worth a comparative amount.

Without paying off the quality with Karma it's stupidly overpowered. Unless your GM is the stingiest bastard who has ever lived, in which case the higher level's interest will eat you alive.

You get 5,000 Nuyen and 10 karma for each 7,500 Nuyen you've got to pay off during play.

At its highest level you've got to pay off 45,000 Nuyen, in exchange for 30,000 Nuyen and 60 Karma.

>> No.33477292

So what happens if I pay off the debt but refuse to spend the karma to get rid of it? Interest can't accrue on $0.

>> No.33477326

The GM is within his rights to convert it to another Negative quality worth comparable karma.

Perhaps if he's feeling nice he might decrease the quantity.

>> No.33477380

Honestly, if you're going to make taking the quality that bad, just ban it from your game. It's meant to be a shitty loan, not an eternal debt.

>> No.33477399

I do.

>> No.33477416

>The GM is within his rights to convert it to another Negative quality worth comparable karma.
How could that make sense though? I suddenly develop an addiction to something? The mob wasn't happy with my prompt and polite payment and now I've made an enemy?

>> No.33477424


Honestly, I just let people take In Debt for no points. They want the debt? They can have it. It won't give BP though.

>> No.33477493

Are you going to make me a nova coke addict if I blow my enemy's head off too?

>> No.33477497

Re-read what I said. The rub of it is that if you "shrug off" a negative quality, your gm can ask for the karma owed, because you're working off the NQ.

NQ exchange is a great house rule, but just that.

>> No.33477514

>Are you going to make me a nova coke addict if I blow my enemy's head off too?
Nah, but you are either paying off karma, or are going to get a new enemy related to the old one somehow.

And a big difference between enemy and debt is that it doesn't take almost no effort to get rid of an enemy.

>> No.33477536

Well, that works then. So do I - there's never a good enough reason to allow it. I once offered to let a player take it, on the condition that the local mafioso loanshark would be the type to ask for occasional favors of a potentially extremely dangerous variety from those who owe him. He decided the 20k and extra BP weren't worth it.

Do your players actually take that deal? If so, please fuck with them.

>> No.33477544

Yes, it's going to be random and entirely uncharacteristic every single time your GM switches qualities on you. They elk never talk with you ooc or base choices off your previous interactions.

>> No.33477546

It doesn't make sense, it's a shitty quality.
A really shitty quality.

Though if you're looking for examples.
Perhaps the Cops caught on that you'd been participating in criminal activities, then tie that to your other criminal activities (Wanted).
Another criminal organisation is pissy that you've been interacting with their rivals and kidnaps a friend (Lost Loved One)
Perhaps word gets around that you got deep in debt with the Yaks and you feel sensitive about it (Big Regret)

>> No.33477592

The way I'd rule out the "In Debt" quality?
You've get a set Interest per month upon agreement, as well as those "Under-minimum-amount" and Overdraft charges accruing until you close out the account.

Unfortunately that requires a SIN or getting some decker to clear you out of the system, which requires Karma

The justification is that the Mafia/Bank gets to do whatever the hell they want to a SINless chummer.

>> No.33477651


>Do your players actually take that deal? If so, please fuck with them.

They do and I often do, if they have another quality that links into it.

You took an enemy hacker? Oh dear, your last payment seems to have mysteriously vanished! Better find a way to cough up that cash...

But yeah, not having BP involved just makes it frontloaded cash, as it will in the end cost more to pay off than it gave...but some players REALLY want that Power Foci or pimped up car at game start for a concept.

>> No.33478985

In 4e how well would an extremely agoraphobic hacker work/how could that work? (5e also accepted)

Like, what would someone need to do that, and just plain not leave their apartment

>> No.33479029

Kinda possible in 4e, but don't. No-one likes the hacker who does his own thing from miles away and gets to have his own private adventure while everyone else just sits around and jerks off.

>> No.33479065

The actual books, actually. Those tie-in novels with Ryan Mercury explained a lot of that shit that went down.

>> No.33479081

Was thinking about the concept. They just have the hacker that "joins" them, usually in the form of a drone to provide support stuff. Might be better with a rigger, though.

>> No.33479115

This is possible in 4E, though you shouldn't do it unless it's for a NPC (which it seems to be from your description?). In 5E, Noise pretty much rules it out.

>> No.33479162

>implying noise is hard to get around
brb, stacking a few supercheap datajacks.

>> No.33479165

Whelp. There goes that character concept.

>> No.33479196

Question about noise: Satellite uplink limits your noise penalty to -5. Do you apply noise reduction before or after that?

>> No.33479300

After, I think?

>> No.33479505

That isn't a thing. The person who said it was is a freelancer who had no actual authority to say it and follow ups showed it wasn't true.

>> No.33479556

>> No.33479619

Rly? Where? My googling can only find the semi-confirmations of it being allowed.

>> No.33479731

After, and remember that satellite uplink only limits your _distance_ penalty to -5 (so jamming or whatever else can still increase it)

>> No.33479735

It is somewhere deep on the shadowrun universe forums.

Allowing them to stack is pretty ridiculous on it's face anyway, because it breaks a lot of other cyberware as well as other things like diagonstics (Can you say a +18 dicepool and +6 limit to shooting with logic 6?) to assume same type bonuses endlessly stack.

As others also have pointed out, if you are really going to be super RAW about it and point out nothing says you can't, datajacks don't actually add to your noise reduction anyway. They just give you 1 noise reduction. All other noise reduction sources give bonuses to noise reduction.

>> No.33479839

Also allowing .1 essence and 2k datajacks to allow you to get stacking noise reduction basically means you may as well remove noise from the game.

Considering assuming they stack breaks a major part of matrix balancing that was pushed to force hackers to be closer to the team, and that applying infinite stacking globally breaks a lot of other options, you best should ignore the not at all official ruling.

Seriously, in the "semi official ruling" the guy wasn't actually making a ruling. He just said he thought it didn't really cause any harm, and considering he was completely wrong you should best ignore him.

>> No.33480200

The money you owe goes mysteriously missing and they hold you responsible.

>> No.33480212

good thing I have epubs of all of them. About a dozen books into it at this point

>> No.33480303

The enemy's enemy is now after you. One worth the same amount of points, or a few weak ones. It never goes away without buying it off.

The GM should take you aside after you kill your enemy, congratulate you and then work on how this will negatively affect you in the future, in a way that will give you an equal amount of negative drawbacks.

If you get over an addiction to something or find a miracle cure for an allergy, the same thing happens.

It's a question of balance. Negative Qualities need to either be bought off or replaced with other negative qualities, or you can get a negative amount of karma that will slowly depreciate in future runs until it's bought off that way. It's a question of balancing it off with all the other flaws people take.

>> No.33480448

I played a quadriplegic hacker at one point. You have to play it very careful on the tracing side of things, last thing you want is someone busting down your door when the rest of the team is far, far away. It was a lot of fun, actually.

As for getting your own "minigame" and being out of the situation really relies on your GM. As long as you are actually running matrix overwatch and aren't off doing random shit, you're functionally with your team anyway. Hacking a door from a foot away or over the matrix makes no difference, and if the rest of the team thinks it isn't fair you aren't there to get shot in the face, remind them kindly that they can talk when they have to fight alone against something as strong and unrelenting as Black Ice. Really, if you were the Sam, what would you rather being doing? Running around shooting shit with no worries or standing over a limp hacker just to make sure nobody geeks him while he's in VR?

>> No.33480502

That's what I was thinking of how it works and stuff. While, yes, I am not in present danger with someone holding a gun to my face, I am still in my own form of danger.

And minigame...yeaaah, the DM I wanna run this with is pretty good with the matrix rules and the like.

>> No.33480616

well thats good. With a good dm 4e matrix is every bit as quick and powerful as 5e, but also a LOT more robust. With a bad GM 4e matrix is a giant chore and you should just play 5e.

The player has to put in the effort too, of course. Playing the hacker/decker is not for first time players or the uninvested

>> No.33480675

It actually is a thing. The rules for noise use the sum of all noise reduction.

>> No.33480718

also, make sure to buy taps and access points and such that the team can carry with them incase the site is isolated from the matrix to let you in. Unless your GM is a dick or thinks you're having badwrongfun for being a stay at home hacker, he shouldn't put you in a situation where you absolutely have to be present to hack something with no other alternatives to reaching whatever goal

>> No.33480751

so is having 4 arms and holding a gun in each for maximum recoil compensation in one hand. Doesn't mean you should do it or be allowed to by a competent gm

>> No.33480755

If you want to ruin your own game by listening to the ill informed ramblings of a freelancer who didn't have the authority to actually make the call be my guess.

Other people however are acutely aware that the ruling makes no sense both in the context of the actual rules as a whole and the intent of noise as an obstacle you primarily get around with proximity.

>> No.33480766

Having not played 5e yet?

What is noise? It does not appear to be the same as sound noise, and I am having a bit of trouble figuring out the context.

>> No.33480808

Think static on TV, but for your wifi, that is noise in 5th ed. bullshit excuse to bring back deckers too.

>> No.33480829

my group dropped noise and grids altogether. Let the grognards get upset about long range hackers on their own time, there is no reason a hacker should have to stand beside the razorboys and the mages, with his 3 dice in pistols.

>> No.33480920

That sounds like pure bullshit, I mean I can get having signal strength be a thing, and it already was, but this just seems like trying to force well.

>> No.33480925

More power to you! If that makes sense for your game go for it! I think I would go one step further and say most GMs should be cool and allow hermit concepts to avoid noise better than regular hackers as long as they have some way to interact with meat to not force a subgame.

It just is insanely stupid to say that is the default for a regular hacker in a regular game due to the words of one dude who made a terrible call with no authority besides "I sometimes write for this company."

>> No.33480997

oh I'm not the guy advocating multiple datajacks for noise reduction, My stance on that is this

>> No.33481042

Feel free to run your games how you want, but it's hardly a serious abuse or game breaking to have a few neck plugs. Just sounds like knee-jerk fear-mongering to portray it like it is, or compare it to poor readings like that recoil interpretation.

>> No.33481070

The weird thing is that they pretty much already forced the hacker to go in with the team in 4th, due to the whole mutual signal range thing.

Not to mention that the downside to hacking remotely through the Matrix was that you had to deal with glaciers of IC at the high-security front gate, whereas if you're already on site you usually get in through a peripheral system and so have little if any trouble.

>> No.33481103

It kind of lets you hack at any distance, makes jammers useless, seriously penalizes technomancers both in terms of their lack of noise reduction and their noise causing powers becoming weak, makes riggers amazingly strong and renders program sharing amazing, and breaks the game for reasons >>33480751 pointed out due to the implications of infinite stacking.

It also completely invalidates the entire point of noise.

If you WANT to run it that way it is fine, but lets not perpetuate the idiocy of this as the official ruling.

I think noise is way better than 4e's mutual signal range because not only does it not penalize you for getting good signal, but having more of this edition's signal lets you snipe at people in a hilarious fashion.

>> No.33481123

True, but apparently, having the hacker back in the escape van right next to the building wasn't enough for the gronards that wrote 5th. no sir, they want you in combat alongside the sammies and the adept too, so all of a sudden NOISE!!!

>> No.33481125

I figure there will be times where I'll be forced out the house.

Wont be fun, ic, but could be fun OOC.

And I will definitely make sure to give teammates some stuff to take with them.

>> No.33481247

Noise wasn't to prevent van hacking. Wifi inhibiting paper worked well enough.

The problem is that with strong combat hacking you need to prevent people from effortlessly sniping across town. Furthermore when one player is entirely matrix based in their apartment it is hard to make challenges that involve them without going full minigame mode.

I don't mind remote hacking myself, but I recognize the problems it caused for GMing. The reason old grognards like me complain about the hacking minigame is because it was BAD before 4e. Like you have no idea how bad. Like the official rules were "Everyone else get a pizza" bad.

>> No.33481301

And to add something, honestly with 5e's matrix set up remote hacking isn't even a super huge problem as long as it is somehow forced to only be local to the party and jammers still apply noise. The matrix is now zippy enough and has enough of an effect on regular play that being a technomancer at home is fine if you talk it out before hand and the GM is experienced.

>> No.33481386

Not that guy, but can you give an example of what hacking entailed in those bad old days? I'm kind of curious how it went when it feels like it already takes a while for hacking things.

>> No.33481388

>"everyone else get a pizza"
Man, I could seriously go for pizza right now.
Imma order a pizza.

>> No.33481478

Basically, even though deckers usually HAD to be with you on your run (that wasn't true BTW, mostly that's people who wrote 4th and didn't play 3rd talking out their ass), you'd have "Matrix rounds" while your guy was plugged in and your team would be stuck doing nothing while your Matrix rounds went on, because they didn't happen concurrently with meatspace rounds as it was all happening at computer speeds.
Think how it happens in Shadowrun Returns, but with real life dice rolls, more math, more options, more looking up the rules, more improv, and overall a SHITLOAD more time sunkinto it.

>> No.33481498


The matrix was much more like an actual physical place and ate up more time.

>> No.33481551

Of course, I simply LOVE Resonance Realms and UV Nodes, because all the other players can also take part in the run, but the Hacker/Techno can act like a God in his own small realm blasting down walls with his Attack Program.

>> No.33481666

>the whole mutual signal range thing
you only needed that to hack something directly without going through the matrix, I thought

>> No.33481681

I've only run one actual UV Node adventure, which I happily dubbed "Infinite Nightmare Machine".
Effectively the team was online for a meet and got hacked (without anyone realizing it) by a Dawkins Group guy they had pissed off in Bogota who link-locked them and forced them into a UV Node where he ran them through a huge simulated conspiracy program that began IMMEDIATELY where they were first hacked, designed to make them paranoid, break their willpower, and eventually divulge all their contacts and secrets so the guy could extort their information as a side bonus to driving them crazy.

>> No.33481716

in 4e we always played the matrix and meatspace IP's as equal. That appeared to be what the rules implied. The bonuses you got to your ip for stuff like VR was the "computer speed".

I don't know if we got it right, but it sure worked well. Didn't feel like the hacker got his own minigame when he took his turns with everyone else, he just had different targets

>> No.33481728

That's what I always did too.
It explicitly worked differently in previous editions.

>> No.33481743

I feel a little stupid for needing to ask this, but the wording feels a little too vague to me and I'd just like to make sure.

Do you ever round essence up in 4e? Like if I have an essence of 3.8, can I round that up to 4? Or are you fucked if you drop even one hundredth of a point below a number?

>> No.33481770

You fucked IIRC. Essence don't like being tampered with.

>> No.33481781

You don't round essence.
If you drop even 0.04 Essence (Deltaware Datajack with Cyber-Compatibility), then you're at 5.96, and you've lost a point of Magic.

>> No.33481830

your essence doesn't get rounded, but even 0.01 essence loss is enough to lose 1 res/mag point. 1.01 essence loss makes you lose 2 res/mag, etc etc

>> No.33481863

Admittedly, you can see where they're coming from, with the whole "computers operate well faster than human thought already, so obviously in the future they'll go even faster, meaning that whatever the decker does needs to be on the same timescale", but yeah, in practice it really doesn't work.

Honestly, I've never actually seen a rule claiming that you CAN hack through the matrix in 4e, or what the associated penalties would be. I think at some point they say you can control drones without mutual signal at a disadvantage, and then never elaborate.

And again, if you want to hack through the Matrix, they put a ton of security at the "front door" to the Matrix proper, so it's easier to get in through the janitorial oversight subsystem while already on-site..

>> No.33481890

It actually makes perfect sense to, but you're correct in that mechanically it's not a sound concept.

>> No.33481925

This sketch is eerily familiar to the description of stalker Anna Fang from the mortal engines series . Pretty much exactly how imagined her in my head except glowing green eyes.

>> No.33482463

Never be afraid to ask questions you want the answers to, even if it makes you feel stupid.
EVERYONE is stupid at some point, so why wait to fix the problem?

>> No.33482651

Might be worth it though for cyber eyes, spell sniping is amazing.

>> No.33482772

So when is keep running scheduled for release any way? Does any one know?

>> No.33482829

Eh, you could always just buy an optical imaging scope and use it like an old-timey spyglass. Typically, if you're in a scenario where range (rather than LoS) matters, you aren't in a huge hurry.

>> No.33482867

Tey /srg/. This is a weird question because its the sort of thing that shouldn't come up in any normal campaign but I let things get out of hand and I need your advice.
What kind of defenses would the zurich orbital space station have and what kind of security clearance would be needed to get on it? Since the station is the processing center for the nuyen market and also where all the megacorp CEOs do their biggest business I would assume the most top of the line stuff in the known world, but if a player wanted to do something really stupid in the general proximity of it what specifically should he expect to be run into?

>> No.33482887

It was more because cyber eyes can give you amazing things for the line of sight.

Thermal Vision, Zoom, Low Light, and a bunch of other things I am forgetting at the moment to cheat the line of sight rules.

Even better if you get the cyber eye that can pop out of your head.

>> No.33482947

>> No.33482949

Massive Banks of anti-missile countermeasures.
Maximum Rating Signal Masking for invisibility from Sensors.
The brutal suppression of any information relating to its structure, the people on-board, and its location.

To get on-board you'd probably need the backing of one of The Big 10, and a complete and intensive intensive Background Check.

Its safety is also pretty much the prime objective of GOD, so you'd better be really careful.

>> No.33482960

The highest possibly security ratings for everything imaginable, a small army of security guards from EVERY megacorp all of the highest possible caliber of skill, an unaligned team of security guards loyal only to the Corporate Court itself of equal skill, the headquarters of GOD (thus a nearly unhackable Matrix), discreet security checkpoints that automatically make sure you are who you say you are absolutely everywhere.
Zurich-Orbital isn't just a bank, it's effectively the center of the world economy AND the center of the de-facto world government.

>> No.33483075

>our wizard is a recently laid-off wagemage
That happens?

>> No.33483167

Yeah, mages can get fired too.
They need to break company policy DL bad that there's no choice but to let them go but still have a SIN so you can't just bump them off, fart around instead of doing research with the grant money given, basically proving to be an expensive to maintain but not very profitable financial asset.
There's always someone else out there who wants your job as much as you do and will work harder for it if he sees you aren't lifting your weight, and that goes for mages too.

>> No.33483226

So I'm about to run Shadowrun 4e for the first time.

My group consists of...

A Syrian human woman who acts as the party's driver/rigger and decker, who is unfortunately 30,000 nuyen in debt.

An Oni Street Samurai who is melee spec'd, and is going full weaboo, down to alcoholism and an allergy to soybeans.

An Ork Heavy Weapons Guy who lugs around an assault cannon, not sure about what else he does yet.

And an Elf Occult Investigator whose character took the default from the book and modified it so he could be an elf. Don't know much about the personality of the character, but if the player keeps his habits up, he'll be (or at least try to be) a Big Damn Hero™

This'll be my first time playing the system, and the rigger/decker is the only one with experience in the game. Anything I should know about the system that isn't immediately apparent?

>> No.33483231

The funny thing is that's actually something her player's set up to be a running gag of sorts.

It almost never happens. It's almost unheard of, in fact, since mages are canonically given a bunch of wiggle room that regular employees don't get, but the long story short is she pissed off the wrong people and some rumors got spread that make her basically unemployable on any corporate level.

>> No.33483251

once its out of your head, you can't use it for targeting spells, as per the devs. Also, most of those enhancements you can get on an external optical device... sacrificing magic for that just isn't worth it

>> No.33483260

Officially, it's almost impossible to travel to.

The number of people with security clearance number the handful, while the process of being cleared is so thorough and exacting you can't get within range to hit it with your blast debris without being part of a genuine ZO mission.
The station itself isn't exceptionally large, (it's the NASA freedom space station) but is regularly changing layout and betting updated. Surrounding the station (and it's half dozen dummy stations) are an unaccounted for number of armed killsats.

Matrix-wise, the best hackers have failed to distinguish the real station from the dummy stations, or even crack encryption used for signals.

If you found every potential ZO, and laser'd / missile'd the crap out of all of them simultaneously, you might able to destroy them. Anything more subtle looks doomed to fail.

>> No.33483270

What the hell kind of rumors make a mage universally unemployable?

>> No.33483315

Something REALLY bad presumably
Rapes elf babies in his spare time and sacrifices them to Bealzebub or something so equally horrendous that no corp really wants to deal with that shit and would rather hire a less insane Mage.

>> No.33483330

Her official records on her old SIN say she practices blood magic now

>> No.33483335

>Oni street samurai
There's always one, isn't there?
>Syrian human rigger
I'm actually not even sure of Syria is still a country in the Sixth World, but I applaud the unusual nationality choice.

>> No.33483380

Ouch. That IS a hard rep to get away from.

>> No.33483381

That'll do it! Might also put a convenient bounty on her head, if you're looking for a way to make that campaign even tougher.

>> No.33483390

I don't know either. Honestly I'm not too well versed in the setting, as my main experiences is the video game.

Also, she took Enemy as a negative quality. So now she's got the Mossad hunting her.

>> No.33483429

Then the trick would be in getting invited.

>> No.33483446


Syria is, in fact, still a country in SR!

>> No.33483574

No invites, just clearance. Again, the people with clearance go through enough tests before getting near the station that trying to fake it would leave you a killsat target.

>> No.33483587

>Just finished up tonight's SR game.
>Party street samurai and unofficial leader has a ton of really clever traps set up, from flashbang grenades set up in potential escape vehicles to plain old industrial grease.
>Party mage wearing sombrero to avoid rain because he is weird like that.
>Both the mage and street samurai waiting by the car and traps as a perimeter
>Party adept super athlete, mystic adept ninja, and technomancer go to infiltrate the upper floor of a warehouse front, actually are clever and instead of trying to climb a building in terrible rain just cheerleader it up and use each other's super strength to boost themselves up.
>Mystic Adept sustaining 3 invisibility spells to mask the approach and constantly realizes how hard it is to do anything with a global -6.
>Techno manages to figure out a use for a 15 meter DNI cable.
>Turns off power and cameras during a lightning strike, causing no real suspicion as one of the yakuza guarding the building goes outside alone to check the power.
>Imagine the mystic adept ninja getting an erection over being able to pick the lone guy off like the predator.
>He views it as a chore instead
>Feels bad man.
>Moves behind him to stab him, hits the vitals but is 1 sucess short of a kill.
>Get to dramatically end the session with the guard returning fire and missing super hard before being finished off as the ninja zoops off.
>Next session is going to be Shadowrun meets predator.

Feels good man. Only real problems with the session is that we didn't get to further explore the UST between the Adept and Technomancer that exists only in my own head and the Mystic adept rolled unusually poorly on a roll he would normally be all about and is kinda disappointing.

>> No.33483605

Mossad would be a lot scarier if non-corporate governments had more power, but I imagine they're still dangerous.
Governments aren't really the primary sources of badass special forces or intellgencd networks anymore.

>> No.33483660

A fair point. But governments still have money, who is to say that they can't pay Corp's to send hit squads?

>> No.33483722


I'd only expect a corp hit squad to be acting on behalf of a government if you are dealing with some fucked up politics with a covert intelligence agency involved. They live on that sort of crazy favor trading.

>> No.33483746

Considering that the Tir Ghosts and the Sioux Wildcats are both national special forces and renowned badasses, and considering that the Middle East is still a global hotspot, even a single Mossad agent (which, assuming they're in Seattle, is the most likely case) could definitely be a threat.

I wonder how Israel fared during the Jihad in the Euro Wars.

>> No.33483778


There's always "associated with a hardcore union organizer / socialist organization."

Mage or not, that's the kind of thing that gets you burned and blacklisted by megacorperations.

>> No.33483841

where did you find this map?

>> No.33483880

Sixth World Almanac, the Arabian Caliphate section to be specific.

>> No.33483904

thanks chummer

>> No.33483956

If you're looking for more stuff on the area, Shadows of Asia is (though out of date) a good source, and Euro Wars Antiques has a brief overview of some history.

>> No.33484225


Did one of the dragons just completely fuck over the middle east after one of the arab nations declared magic sacrilege?

>> No.33484310

Don't fuck with Great Dragons, especially Aden.
Dunkelzahn had to give him a Major Artefact just to get him to fucking calm down.

>> No.33484360

Can I make a set of revolver barrel weights a weapon focus so if some motherfucker steps up to my adept I can magical pistol whip them down?

>> No.33484400

Yes, yes you can.

Pistol Whipping isn't going to deal an exceptional amount of damage, and a Weapon Focus only adds dice to your attack when attacking mundane targets.

But it means you can Pistol Whip a Spirit to death.

>> No.33484430

Yep, can only use it for melee though. Take an underbarrel melee weapon, treat damage as a club?

>> No.33484504

Government's have money because they have an ECONOMY, which is filtered through business to generate profit (as all economies are), which means the Corporate Court controls ALL of it, or so much of it that the rest doesn't matter.
It's been said the REAL power nations have is military might; they can spend that money that the Corps control on military assets that they control 100%. That would be why so many nations are so edgy in the Sixth World; the military force card is now the only card they truly control.
The Wildcats and the Ghosts are notably the ONLY national special forces groups that are considered ultra-badass in the global sense.
Then there's SK-Prime, Aegis Cognito, Firewatch, 10,000 Daggers, the Seraphim, the Dawkins Group, the Aztechnology Warrior Orders, Research Unit 13, Delta Bravo, and probably some shit I'm forgetting that shows the vast majority of special forces and intelligence gathering power is in corporate hands.
It's only logical really; huge militaries are for wars, which are not cost-effective methods of generating profit, so reliable intel and special forces work is cheaper but also more effective. Only Aztechnology really breaks this rule, but that's because there's barely any difference between Aztechnology and Aztlan at all.
And I'm not sure the Euro Wars hit the Middle East. When the setting was thought up and really developed I'm sorry to say most of the US just didn't give a flying fuck about the Mideast game designers included; it was home to that one tiny country he fought the Gulf War with for a tiny while.
We didn't even think of it as terrorist central, because the most publicly damaging terrorist attack in US history was by a white extremist from Oaklahoma City.

>> No.33484531

Aden didn't like how many Islamic fundamentalists raged against metahumans and magic in general, so when they called a Jihad he killed Tehran.

>> No.33484648

Oh, fun thing about Aden; it's recently shown that while he's almost certainly a male, and is referred to even by other dragons as male, one of his preferred human shapes is as a woman in well-made grey business suit with a burkha on her head wearing glasses.
He probably takes this shape specifically because it allows him to be "overlooked" in the more deliberately conservative middle eastern countries.

>> No.33484716


Look, I'm going to be honest, I just want to do some Noel Vermillion shit.

>> No.33484753

....be a flat-chested ass-focused barely above jailbait girl?

>> No.33484771


....I'm not saying no, but I was referencing her fighting style.

>> No.33484812

I knew what you ment, I'm just an incureable wiseass.
What they said is true. Also, if you're using 5th Ed get Run and Gun and chog out the Firewatch martial arts style; it's basically Gunkata shit like that

>> No.33484821

Personally, I would have chosen to emulate a gun kata character that more fits the setting...

>> No.33484891

>SK-Prime, Aegis Cognito, Firewatch, 10,000 Daggers, the Seraphim, the Dawkins Group, the Aztechnology Warrior Orders, Research Unit 13, Delta Bravo
Does NeoNet have a specially named spec ops team?

>> No.33484920

I fucking love Gungrave. Those game just ooze style and charm.
Only game where you can be a pseudo-immortal gunzombie having a slow-walk Gunkata duel against a regenerating Gunkata Hitman while JAZZ BATTLE MUSIC plays in the backround.
I can't think of one, but I'll like around. If anything they're more likely to have elite matrix security, considering their specialization.

>> No.33485014

What equipment would corporate security be carrying to notify a spider or a central computer or something of trouble?

A commlink's obvious. Would it be cruel/unrealistic of me to give them biomonitors that auto send a distress signal to a spider if bad shit's detected (jump in heart rate, loss of pulse, etc.)? Maybe it wouldn't set off an alarm and call HTR immediately but would get the spider to ask what's up and/or send in another on-site team to check things out.

Of course if the party just takes out the spider beforehand, only automated alarm systems would work like laser grids or cameras or whatever. Any other ideas?

>> No.33485074

A biomonitor cued to death linked to an auto-dial is reasonable for a very careful facility, but not changes in heart rate or pulse, because a LOT of things can change that.
The biological signs of being in extreme danger and in a state of physical arousal are nearly identical for example; you wouldn't want your security guy to trigger an emergency alert every time he pops a hard on when he sees that fine-ass elven secretary.

>> No.33485143

Fair. I suppose just to avoid penalizing my players for going lethal (I don't see them doing it any other way) I'll give them the option/ability to stop the signal either through hacking or bluffing the spider when he asks what's going on.

>> No.33485185

There's nothing wrong about going lethal, it just needs to be understood by the team that as soon as you start capping guys you're on a timetable; even if you spoof wireless signals, SOMEONE is going to notice something's up most of the time unless it's a factory or some place that has a lot of automation and a lot of ground to keep things isolated.

>> No.33485208

This. Runners carry hardware and consider street samurai important for a reason. Death is a definite option and the caution "Don't slit the throat of every joe blow rent a cop" doesn't mean "Don't be afraid to shoot a dude if required and justifiable"

>> No.33485331

Our team has a pretty strict rule we always follow; on a run (not footwork or investigation or lead-ups to a run, the ACTUAL run) always use equivalent force to what is used against you.
Most security goons aren't worth it; we're badass enough to non-lethally disable them without much effort, so why piss off the target more the needed, right?
But when we encounter hard targets and go loud we go LOUD; maximimal violence and casualties to the enemy force, ensuring they won't be around to make trouble with us during the run.
On-site security is on-site security; they do a lot of shit that's not necessarily of the combat sort.
HRT's and the like have one function; kill all the intruders. So we don't pull punches, and kill the entire HRT right the fuck back, because CLEARLY they're already okay with taking their chances.

>> No.33486153

I'm imagining a cabal of Communist Mages now who only joined because they wanted to quit their own jobs.

Awakened Workers of the World: Unite!

>> No.33486435

The Cryptic Cabal of Communist Practitioners?

>> No.33486715

>try to do the most sensible thing to get something done without killing no one or setting something on fire
>crit glitchs/fail's on 17 out 20 roll's I do
>other player walks in and start doing killing everybody and starts doing things that needs harder rolls
>4-7 hits every time

This just happen to be 2 hours ago I'm not mad at the player but still pissed

>> No.33486970

Just remember... a Magic rating 5 is still REALLY REALLY rare and amazing.

Also, some DMs give .5 essence for free so everyone can have fun with cyber eyes and other assorted shenanigans.

>> No.33486980

To the anon in the previous /srg/ who thought Paladin sprites were actually of use:

What? No, fuck you. Go read the Matrix rules and realize that the majority of the things you'll want to do as a hacker are "literally anything but Matrix combat".

The only time you're doing Matrix combat is if you're trying to beat up someone in the Matrix, or if you're caught by ICE. In the latter case, fucking run away and log/jack out. It is never worth getting into a protracted cybercombat with a program that will come back to life the next time the node reboots (and, more likely than not, most nodes will just reboot the moment an alert goes up and will dump you out anyhow). In the former case, unless it's a special run or something, just go kill the fucker in the meat - or, again, your cover's been blown, throw down any sprite to buy you some time and fucking run.

Basically, all the other sprites you listed can do something special that neither classical hackers nor technomancers can do; meanwhile, Paladins and Tanks are just "more cyberfighty", which, well, any snot-faced scriptkiddy can do with enough agents/a botnet.

>> No.33486981

I played a game of Fantasy Craft... In the entire session, I only rolled three rolls higher than 5. My DM suggested taking the bad luck feats.

>> No.33487000

Sometimes it can be convient to just break the hardware rather than hack it. Also less likely to get marked that way.

>> No.33487012

Chummer, we're talking 4e over here.

>> No.33487460

1 Essence will give you Rating 3 cybereyes, rating 4 Muscle Toner, and Rating 4 Muscle Augmentation, if you buy them all at Delta grade. So you could conceivably have a competent mage who is also inhumanly strong and fast AND can spell-snipe.

Initiative passes might still be a problem but you could probably swap some muscle augmentation for synaptic boosters or something.

>> No.33487539

You know, or just sustain an "Increase Reflexes" Spell.

>> No.33487545


That being said, you can't get deltaware at character creation, right? At least not in 4e?

>> No.33487562

Nope, alphaware is the highest you can start with.

>> No.33487607

Hi all, I'm GMing my first game of 3e this weekend and could use /tg/s advice and tips. Been a player in the same group but taking over GMing a one shot whilst our GM is busy.

I'm relatively happy with the mechanics of meat, magic and facing, less happy with rigging and vehicle chases and v little experience of decking, however our group generally simplifies or passes Matrix work to an NPC.

I've got a choice of 3 different missions for them relatively fleshed out in story and theme but rules light. Is this viable and just winging or should I try and get more TN and stat lines thought out for what they're likely to come up against?

>> No.33487964

So what's the benefit of playing a mystic adept over a mage or adept?

They can't shift their points between mage powers and adept powers on the fly right? Seems like they suck at both jobs.

>> No.33488056

They do kinda suck, however if you play them as an Adept with a little bit of Spellcasting/Summoning then they can reasonably good.

They're also great for reactive Counterspelling.

>> No.33488064

Depends on which edition you're talking about. Our current team's mystic adept is an absolute beast.

>> No.33488094

So given the option with having a super high magic character, would adept, mystic adept, or mage be better?

>> No.33488113

I'm talking about 4e.

>> No.33488123

Depends on what you want to do. Physical work? Spellblasting?
Then yes, mystic adepts are a lousy choice. They get bumped up back to "useful" in 5th Ed again.

>> No.33488133

>you wouldn't want your security guy to trigger an emergency alert every time he pops a hard on when he sees that fine-ass elven secretary.
Sure, but it sort of fits the setting if every employee with a security clearance is required to confirm their status every time their heartrate spikes. Office work in Shadowrun is supposed to be soul-crushing.

Can you imagine having to justify what you're doing to a security guard every time you feel an emotion other than mind-numbing tedium? And don't forget, if you quit your job you lose your corporate SIN. I'm sure HR have a lovely collection of Barrens gangrape trids to show anyone who thinks about looking for alternative employment. And lets not even consider their response to the words like "unionize" or "collective bargaining".

>> No.33488140

Always remember, the sheer insane number of variable party roles and functions means "the best thing for blankity blank" won't really get a great answer unless you tell us EXACTLY what you want your character to do.

>> No.33488146

>Depends on what you want to do. Physical work? Spellblasting?

I'd like to do both. But if we have a cyberwared street samurai, I suppose being an adept would be kinda pointless huh?

>> No.33488164

A lot of megacorps don't really care if less important people, such as office drones quit their jobs, mostly because they're ridiculously replaceable, especially with shit like skillwires.
Hmm. Here's an idea; if you can swing it, make a Combat Mage. You won't have magically enhanced physical skills of course, but you CAN have excellent combat capabilities to mix up with your spellcasting.
Said combat abilities can be everything from melee to ranged support and the like.
Think "Magical Rambo" rather then "robes and spellbooks" and you have a solid idea.

>> No.33488165

There's always room for more than one ass-kicker in the party, especially if you pick different weapons and support skills; if a street sam has heavy guns and heavy armour, consider taking a melee weapon and the stealth to ensure that you can get close to use it.

>> No.33488177

>ridiculously replaceable
Doesn't help the case for "let's make our office more secure, who cares if it makes working here horrible".

>> No.33488186

I personally find that as a mystic adept you don't really need a lot of points in on the magician side in order to still be useful. With a 2/4 split you can maintain a spell that gives you 4 IP in a foci, throw up a invisibility force 4 and go to town.

Since most people, other than mages, have kind of sucky willpower (between 3-5), they will most likely not spot you, though other mages and spirits can be a problem.

But if you decided to throw in some adept powers that helps you resist magic and maybe boost up your agility/strength, you can just charge right at the mage/spirit and knock out the only thing that might be a threat to you.

>> No.33488193

Depends what the sammy is specced for. You don't tend to see Sams built for BOTH melee and ranged, so as an adept you can nab the other area, or do something which only the adept powers allow you to do!

Case in point MysAd bard...Enthralling performance distractions with your music, have music be your magic Geas. Add a side order of facing and you have a character who has a separate niche (The Distraction) and multi roles as the MysAd should (face + magic).

The nice thing about MysAds is they can multi role better than many other classes/archetypes but you have to find something that works in the group

>> No.33488199

should have been "hurt", or something like that. In any case, requiring all employees to have biomonitors for extra security and report all errant emotions sounds entirely plausible. They could install them along with the skillwires, both of which are coming out of the employee's salary and repossessed if the employee quits.

>> No.33488203


Well I'm going True Drake, not sure how that throws in something to the mix.

Don't ask who's the dad.

>> No.33488217

I was more pointing out that most megacorps probably don't care if their wageslaves up and quit so long as they aren't important.
The rest is more not overtaxing your HRT and spider; as someone who's actually WORKED military security, you do NOT want false alarms every five seconds. It irritates your soldiers, your principle, makes everyone edgy, stupid, and less quick to react or care.
It's also a massive security exploit any idiot could use.
....well then who gives a shit what your spells or adept powers are? You can turn into a fucking dragon.
Just be an adept and be done with it to pump your ridiculous dragon stats even higher and if you want to do ranged stuff then BREATHE FIRE on them, sheesh.

>> No.33488245

Isn't having a great dragon as a possible tutor kinda useful though if I were to go mage?

>> No.33488265

Not really.
It's not like your Magic state would increase any faster or anything, you'd just have access to learning pretty much any spell you want, at the exact same costs as anyone else paying for a new spell with a tutor.

>> No.33488297

Christ Above.
I can't think of a single character i've played who would be happy working with a True Drake.

It's worse than working for a Dragon.
You're working with one of their indoctrinated pet dolls.

>> No.33488301

Alright, just gotta figure out how to sacrifice my party to my Father when they try to kill him.

Maybe he will let me buy them off instead of killing them so we can hit the mega corp who hired them.

>> No.33488365

Rest of the party thinks I'm just some exCorp head of security that got fired from my Father's place for gross negligence in defenses when in reality he on payroll to another corp and this fact was "leaked" out.

This was all scheme by my Father to find out who's trying to kill him. Gonna be fun.

>> No.33488416

Ah well, Celedyr is a crafty bastard

>> No.33488438

Good guess but no, not my Father.

I'm a spitting image of my Father's Dragon form while in Draco form.

Hubris you could say, on his part.

>> No.33488600

Is it just me or does Metal Gear Rising: Revenge seem kinda like a pink Mohawk?
Has anyone played that game and is it good?

>> No.33488629

Better Devil May Cry game then the last Devil May Cry game was.
The action to fucking insane, with a surprisingly memorable soundtrack, and you STILL get the usual CODEC chatter filled with endless heavily researched factoids about various subjects and philosophy that marks the series.
It's WAY past Pink Mowhawk though, as you tend to do things like cut tank-sized robots in half and judo-throw metal gear-sized enemies over your shoulder.
Raiden is more of a cyberpunk superhero then a Shadowrunner at this point.
Also, it's not Revenge. It's REVEANGANCE, which is so delightfully cheesy I can't help but love it.

>> No.33488677

Ok, is it worth of 10 €?

>> No.33488714

Sure, in my opinion.

>> No.33489018

Why didn't returns have multiplayer functionality?

And why is decker all but useless in returns?

>> No.33489041

Because it was a crowdfunded RPG game with a focus on making the system work, whereas nearly all multiplayer functionality in non-MMORPG's is pretty much forced on by the producer because multiplayer sells more,

>> No.33489217

I wasn't asking for deathmatch I was just saying was co op too much of a hurdle

Especially since they were gonna make it anyway

>> No.33489432

Because Shadowrun Online isn't actually made by the same people at all. It was started up by guys picked by Catalyst once they saw someone (the SRR guys) was making a product using older edition rules that they had no hand in and got no profits off of.
Moreover, it's quite likely to be a shittier game given how poorly it's crowdfundibg is going compared to SRR. It's a cash-in, pure and simple.

>> No.33489542

>why is decker all but useless in returns?
Because hacking is an out-of-combat ability in a combat-heavy game, and it's completely situational; if you don't have something to hack, then being a hacker is pointless. Hence 4e used wireless hacking as an excuse to make Hacker into a party support role in combat and 5e used wireless bonuses as an excuse to make Hackers less situational and provide constant targets for them.

Whether any of that worked is down to taste.

(Oh, and also, the SRR devs wanted to make sure that you wouldn't get stuck if you didn't bring a Decker, so the most the game can do is make things more difficult/less rewarding; they can't attach a Decking challenge to a critical path objective unless they also require you to have one in the party, therefore the PC can never be the star Decker in a pre-scripted mission.)

>> No.33489704

It's gotta suck trying to balance such a key element of the setting with the actual limitations of gameplay.

>> No.33489816

I found playing as a hacker was nice for two reasons in Dragonfall. One, you don't have to use Blitz. Two, you can easily be far better than Blitz at hacking which is helpful if you don't free APEX.

>> No.33490167

Crap, there's a party member called Blitz? Good I'm only half an hour in because that's what I named my PC. It's like turning up to a party wearing the same outfit as someone else. Or being that one "real life superhero" who didn't realize until after he made his costume that Watchmen already took the name Knight Owl.

Well, there are ways around. As mentioned, I'm only 30min into Dragonfall, but that's got more detailed dialog options (using Astral Perception on Glory if Mage, offering to do the hack in the intro instead of Monika if Decker, etc.). Ultimately though, all of that content will probably never be seen by a significant number of players, so unless you've got an expansive budget* you're likely to cut the cool solo hacking mission concept or solo astral projection mission from your design document in favour of content for everyone. Text is cheap, so that's where most of the diverging content appears.

(*If Bethesda made a Shadowrun game, there'd be an entire ten mission quest line that's completely closed off to non-Deckers. But they've got the budget for that sort of game.)

I'm going to regret asking this but, keeping it spoiler-light as possible, should I play Dragonfall as a Mage or a Decker with a gun? (Also, if Decker, which gun? Rifles?) I did the melee thing for SRR.

>> No.33490266

Mage is good, as the Dietrich isn't.

>> No.33490274


>> No.33490326

OK, so that's a rapper, a superhero and a "superhero". Anyone else?

>> No.33490440


>> No.33490473

Dietrich is fine at his job, buff monkey.

>> No.33490488

Sure, but I think mages should be permahasted blasters. Grenades suck compared to high level AOEs

>> No.33490709

Right, permahasted blaster it is! Now to pick a name; something that implies I'll be geeking people with magic, possibly with a German edge to it, but not Blitz this time.

>> No.33490739


>> No.33490773

Be warned, you're going to feel underpowered as shit until you get your first fire spell. Which doesn't take long, but don't be discouraged.

As a high level mage I would just sit on a ley line and blast people for 25-50 damage flamethrower spells all day.

>> No.33490910

What should I have for my adept centering?

>> No.33491000

I like the idea of cliche ninja hand seals; your GM is going to get a bit put off if your centering method has no drawbacks, so being able to say "if I have at least one hand free, I'm Centered" is a good thing. Obviously not an option if you're using 2h or 2*1h weapons.

>> No.33491107


What does your adept do? Melee? Shooting? Facing ? Or something more off the wall?

Ideally you want something which is appropriate, a bit of an inconvenience and a bit badass

>> No.33491217

Adept weapons expert. Mostly going to be doing shooting. I was thinking maybe kissing his gun. But that would be weird if I tried to use it on any physical skill but shooting.

>> No.33491332

I had an adept who dual wielded revolvers and would spin them Revolver Ocelot style in-between shooting as his centering.


>> No.33491601

>dat first 30 seconds
Dude, seriously?

Also, I guess if you choose that as your centering then you can't use it for, say, running across a wet floor. (Forgive my GMing, but I'm trying to balance something you can do with no disadvantage in combat with my idea >>33491000.)

>> No.33491722

Im mostly doing 2 handed weapons though. I was thinking maybe I could wear a rosary or prayer beads on my off hand, and I could take a free action to move along the necklace on to a new prayer.

>> No.33493352

What's the best way to make Connor from AC3 in shadowrun? Adept or sammy? I was reading run and gun, and saw a tactical tomahawk.

>> No.33493713

Adept, as the native americans are more magical for some reason.

>> No.33494312

So I'm gonna be GMing a 4e game for the first time, and am relatively new. What should I make sure I know going in?

>> No.33494320


Shadowdragon stupidity time!

So, if you issue an Omega Order, despite all setting conventions, it means the end of the world. GOOD TO KNOW EH GUYS?

>> No.33494395

IIRC, tactical tomahawks are a real thing. The US Army has been using them since Vietnam.

>> No.33494423

Someone give this man a list of the overpowered stuff from "War!" etc.

>> No.33494452

There's a whole discussion up-thread of qualities, items, and character concepts you should keep an eye out for because they break games - other than that, mostly just know the system well, because Shadowrun isn't the easiest, rules-wise.

And honestly, just ban War unless you're doing some kind of large-scale mercenary campaign.

>> No.33494631

War! Huh! Good god, y'all! What is it good for?

>> No.33494769

Breaking games in half?
Making longarms pointless?

>> No.33494931


Nigga you lucky if you can get Delta -ever-.

>> No.33494993

Maybe battle rifles should have the same rules as shotguns, where uncompensated recoil is doubled if they're fired on burst-fire or full-auto. In real life, battle rifles were notoriously difficult to control on full auto.

>> No.33495076

Uncompensated recoil really isn't a huge thing if you know how to setup your guns. Gyromounts, for example, add +6 RC.

>> No.33495117


>> No.33495210

Never understood why we named our military hardware after native american shit. It'd be like if germany named their tanks shit like "jude"

>> No.33495295

Because America.

>> No.33495423

Not exactly a fair comparison 'cause Tomahawks are weapons

>> No.33495486

This guy is such a fucking retard.

>> No.33495499

Chinook, Apache, Comanche.

>> No.33495553

And Apaches are not.

>> No.33495715

I stand, sort of, corrected

>> No.33495953


And it's why I post it here. A constant reminder that if you ever see that screen-name online, jump ship.

I just found that TWO people I know, today, have played under him. Nothing but bad shit to say, and one atually screamed (as much as you can, online) in horror.

>> No.33496008


Just for everyone here, want to take apart his argument of why the world wouldn't end at a Double O being issued?

>> No.33496090

What's so bad about him? This sounds like we need some STORYTIME.

>> No.33496097

Yeah, the US just named helicopters after Amerinds or Amerind tribes.

>Black Hawk

>> No.33496198

Holy shit. Any kind of storytiem?

>> No.33496522

I know the guy, I know he's a special kind of special, but I'd love storytime.

Especially from people who played with him.

captcha: acknowledged mapture

>> No.33496689


How about grinding every single game to a stop for HOURS to argue that that's not how it should be, his opinion is right, and yours is wrong?

Keep in mind, I don't know him myself.

>> No.33496746

In Dragonfall you catch flak from your entire team, even Eiger, for turning in the Cyberzombie. Sure, it's a pretty awful thing to do to a person but I always imagined runners were made of sterner stuff. Particularly those that have been running the shadows for years like your team seems to.

Then again, the Johnson also really should have informed the team more clearly what they were smuggling out. Pretty big distinction between stealing tech and stealing people.

>> No.33496747


Like I said, thankfully, I don't know him myself. Nor have I ever gone into it with the two that do. I don't want to trigger PTSD or anything. But it's bad. Bad enough that I just wanted to remind anyone to say away from him. Don't endage. Don't argue. Just pat him on his head and send him away.

>> No.33496778


Sterner stuff doesn't help much when something is so fundamentally soul-raping that you don't even need magic to see it.

If you don't know Shadowrun all that well, it's hard to describe how just....no good Cyberzombies are.

And you may have just enabled someone to make more of them.

>> No.33496836

If you look at him in the astral, your soul starts crying. It's that bad.
And I think Blitz is good with turning it in, although he would prefer keeping it.

>> No.33496882

I fully understand how bad cyberzombies are. Just seems like a typical jaded runner's response would be "out of sight, out of mind" and "no longer my problem".

Although I didn't know about based Blitz' response, for some reason he just had an empty box with a spoke with him afterwards. Then again he also seems the least experienced of the team. Guess he's just naturally amoral.

>> No.33496908

The only person Blitz cares about is that chick who stole all his shit.
Anyone know how the happy ending for that turns out? My game gliched.

>> No.33496967


No, you're still not getting it, if that's your reaction. A cyberzombie is SO much far past that. It doesn't care how messed up or jaded you are, it cuts through all that. This isn't shit you can just shrug off.

>> No.33496982

You can't just say someone is a bag of dicks and not clarify.

>> No.33497259


Go look at his posting on dumpshock. I linked a perfect example of him being the biggest bag of dicks.

>> No.33497263

You're honestly blowing it out of proportion. They give a rating 4 background count in 4e. While that's huge, it isn't enough to cause everyone around them to feel their souls being ripped out. It is the same background count as a old battlefield that is honored, so no mundane people will not be able to see it.

>> No.33497412

There's also the fact that only two of your runners (Glory and Blitz) are lacking in the emotions department, and one (glory) has a reason to be empathetic.

>> No.33497421


Ah, you came in at 4ed? I'm starting to see why you don't get how bad it is, then. Go read the fluff from the prior eds.

>> No.33497457

Or you could start quoting and stop being condescending, because I'm not going to download older editions just so that I can read outdated fluff.

>> No.33497490

>There's also the fact that only two of your runners (Glory and Blitz) are lacking in the emotions department, and one (glory) has a reason to be empathetic.
Glory actually tends to be more moral than Eiger. Eiger usually just wants to follow missions to the letter.

>> No.33497497

It isn't out dated. It all still stands. 4e just had really sucky fluff writers.

Cyberzombies are awful and even the most hardened runner would probably be upset at the concept, but it hardly has an "I must destroy this abomination" aura.

>> No.33497529

>It isn't out dated. It all still stands. 4e just had really sucky fluff writers.
If 4e contradicts it, isn't it outdated?

>> No.33497568

It doesn't contradict it. It just leaves a lot of stuff out, for example aura stains from dark magic.

They are still canon, 5e brought them back because they were kinda important things to just plain old forget about.

>> No.33497601

If it doesn't contradict what I posted, then why did he bring it up? Without quotes I have absolutely no idea what you guys are talking about. As of 4e cyberzombies were bad but not the worst.

>> No.33497612


You are playing a 2ed era game, and are bitching about not knowing the fluff. Not my problem in the least, least of all when you start bitching.

>> No.33497654

It doesn't contradict it because 4e omitted a lot of information and in general did a poor job of painting a good picture of the world. Old information is still relevant.

Though I agree he is being a bit of a tool.

>> No.33497657


Because it doesn't contradict, it just doesn't go far enough in the least.

And if you're too damn lazy to get the book, why, exactly, do you think you have any right to demand more from me?

>> No.33497674

I think I probably got the bad ending, but if you encourage him to go after her, you find out that she's a deep-cover agent and Blitz unintentionally fucks up a five-year operation by pursuing her. Depending on how you console him after the fact, he takes that as the wakeup call he needs to put the past behind him.

>> No.33497715

I'm asking for a lore tidbit that 4e apparently failed to cover without wanting to download an entire previous edition I won't use. No need to be a dick.

>> No.33497716


Ok, wait, wait what?

He pointed out that the other guy was lacking information, then pointed out where to get it. That's being a tool, now? Should I go put on a padded suit?

>> No.33497743

That is the information he imparted yes.

However insulting people who you are trying to help is generally agreed to be tool behavior.

>> No.33497753


Looking into a single fluffheavy book isn't a whole ed. Also, most of the old books are great reads. It's your loss, really. I was only encouraging your to better your knowledge base. Excuse me for that being offensive to you in some way.

>> No.33497777


I think we have vastly, vastly different thoughts on what 'insulting' is, let alone on 4chan of all places.

Are you sure you're in the right place>

>> No.33497779

I don't even know which book. All you've said is previous editions, which got later narrowed to 2e.

>> No.33497791

Some possible reasons cyberzombies are bad news (just my own conjecture):
Theyre fucking expensive. Only the most powerful corporations can create them and it takes powerful mages and lots of tech to make them work. It's highly likely they'll kick down your door, torture you for info and kill you so other corps don't find out.

Shadowrunning is portrayed as having an almost "honor among thieves" type of deal. They're not just a bunch of wetworkers and have standards to a certain degree. If your dealing with cyberzombies it might be only a few steps below from dealing with dragons (we know how most shadowrunners see dragons)

>> No.33497924

How about the both of you just shut the fuck up and stop acting like faggots.

Truth is, one of you is asking a lore question that he doesn't know the answer to, the other is annoyed that you can't look it up, you're not gonna solve this by acting like playground kids, either answer the poor bastards question, or actually point him to where the answer is (As in, the actual books it resides on) instead of just telling him "read old books"

After that, go back to your regularly scheduled SRG.

>> No.33497932

Yeah, that's the bad ending.
Fun to lewd?
>esh_esh's game.jpg

>> No.33497960

Why would you bother with cyberzombies when you could just make really effective combat drones and have them be piloted by riggers or jarhead cyborgs?

>> No.33497976

This guy gets it

>> No.33497988

Cyberzombies are partially magical due to the cybermancy needed to force their spirit to stay attached.

>> No.33497989

That question is asked ICly and the implications are unpleasant.

Mechanically though its because while drones are way cheaper than cyberzombies and you can field hundreds for the upkeep price alone, it is because the flesh is strong.

>> No.33498042

Because Science!

No, seriously, all of the things we have in our modern world came because some smart motherfucker decided to look where people don't expect to find stuff, maybe researching Cyberzombies leads to new medical treatments, ware that is less essence heavy, etc.

>> No.33498047


...ok, yes, that is totally my fault and I'll cop to being a dumbass for that one.

Look up Cybertechnology, FASA 7119. Like I said, it's just a fantastic book all over.

>> No.33498073

Thanks, downloading.

>> No.33498076



Cry more.

>> No.33498086

It would be pretty bad. But not end of the world garbage. It would probably mess up most of the Americas and they might be able to damage the Corporate Court Infrastructure, but it wouldn't be "the world is an irradiated ruin."

Aztlan being the foremost producer of food would have a big impact though, if the Corporate Court went to wart with it and nuclear weapons were involved. Nuclear weapons don't always work anymore, mind you, so it would be hit or miss on what happens if Aztlan tried using them.

Aztlan is a single country in North America. Nuclear weapons don't always work in Shadowrun anymore, and their military stockpile is solely located in Aztlan, so they might be able to fight Zurich Orbital or their neighboring countries and rough them up a bit. They're close to where Ares HQ is, so they would be in trouble in a military encounter.

The world at large though, would be fine. Aztlan would end up balkanized and the entire country would turn into one giant shithole being eaten away by their neighbors.

My 2 cents.

>> No.33498096

On a related question serious ending spoiler about Dragonfall; Why would anyone even think of stopping Dragon AIDS?

>> No.33498116


I think you won't be disapointed. It goes into the whole thing in depth, and the framing story overall shows how and why someone would fall into being a Street Sam.

>> No.33498131

>meticulously planned long-term-strategy spanning five years and more
>some street scum with red hair and chops fucks up the entire plan

Shadowrun in a nutshell.

>> No.33498150


Because shit loves to mutate. BEcause it's dragons right now, doesn't mean it'll be dragons five minutes from now.

>> No.33498163

Because it probably wouldn't even work. The ending implies that Lofwyr had his eyes on the thing the whole damn time.

>> No.33498170


Because if they knew metahumanity did it, why not just say "Fuck it" and make sure everyone dies with them?

>> No.33498173

Because that would be genocide, and nobody deserves that. Not even dragons.

Not all dragons are Lofwyr.

>> No.33498176

Well, even if peeps in SR can be pretty bad, eradicating an entire race is a bit too hitler to fly.

>> No.33498178

Because the genocide of a sapient species is wrong, and also what >>33498150 said.

>> No.33498210


For every Destroyer or Lofwyr there is a big D and party dragon.

>> No.33498222

If you didn't you wouldn't be able to schieve the ultimate goal of every /tg/ shadowrunner:motorboating Hestaby's human form.

And while I'm here, concerning kits/facilities/shops, the book says you have to have one appropriate to what you are working on, automotive, aircraft, etc. My question is would drones count as their own category for this or would they fall under whatever form of locomotion they utilize? A wheeled drone counting as automotive, a flying drone counting as aircraft, a drone sub counting as watercraft and so on.

>> No.33498256

In general kits and such are organized by skill they use. There is nothing fundamentally different from a wheeled drone and a car save one has a brain.

However screwing with the actual drone computer is probably hardware.

>> No.33498275

Is Hestaby's human form known for being especially... attractive?

>> No.33498286

>Not all dragons are Lofwyr.

Lofwyr's not all bad, sure he's a dick but it's not like he's actively antagonistic to metahumanity at large, just the ones that get in his way or try to fuck him over. He's more or less neutral, if nobody ever messed with him he'd be content to just chill in Berlin and let SK make him ridiculous amounts of money.

>> No.33498313

That is my opinion, but at the end of the day he fucking eats people and most people can't get past that.

>> No.33498330

She's a huge attention whore. Yes.

>> No.33498387

>organized by the skill they use

Then where would walker drones and skimmers go?

Supposedly, I've never heard of any dragon capable of shapeshifting in any form of media described as unattractive when they take a humanoid form.

>> No.33498389

Actually scratch that. Now that Hestaby and Big D are gone Lofwyr is probably the last big good dragon left, assuming the Locke and Demosthenes theory is correct. And I am pretty sure it is if SRR is anything to go by.

>> No.33498429

In 5e at least? Automotive, as that also covers walker drones explicitly.

Its not hard information to find. Check the specialties in the mechanical skills.

>> No.33498461

Masaru's pretty friendly to metahumanity.

>> No.33498462

Lofwyr's human form is usually described more as "intimidating".
I'm not sure Lofwyr is anything like "good", but I DO think he knows when he has to put in an effort to savd the world from horrible things.
Lofwyr's self-interest is important to him above all else, but he understands if the world crashes and burns he can't look after said self-interests, so he'll save it.
This makes him marginally wiser then most other megacorps and powerful people, who often just try to exploit the situation.

>> No.33498477

Magic is still poorly understood and not fully explored in 2076 and that's probably not going to change in the foreseeable future. The dragons know more about magic than anyone else in the world. Sure, at present, they may not share it, but if you kill them all, you don't even get the opportunity.

>> No.33498502

>Magic is poorly understood.
No. You can easily go to college to study high end magical theory and there are a lot of known facts about a lot of things. General ignorance doesn't mean squat.
>Not fully explored.

>> No.33498508

Where can I find the Food Fight module for 4e?

>> No.33498563

Playing 4E, I don't think it says, if it does I missed where.

That's probably the best way of describing Lofwyr, he's a chessmaster type who realizes he won't be able to play the game if someone smashes the pieces and burns the board.

>> No.33498597

Masaru's friendly to UNDERDOGS. He likes to fund revolutionaries (especially in his home region of Southeast Asia) and he doesn't seem to like tyrants of any kind and thus tries overthrow government power he considers tyrannical, such as Imperial Japan.
Aden is ALSO "friendly" to Metahumans, since most of his backround manipulation a in the Middle East suggest he tries to increase tolerance of magic and metahumans while decreasing the power of fanatics, but he's still ruthless as hell.
Ghostwalker actually looks after Metahuman interests too (him and Big D were both taught by the previous Loremaster, who espoused that it was dragon's responsibility to do so), but he's NOT friendly about it, doesn't explain his actions, doesn't care if you appreciate them, and is hampered by his very short temper.

>> No.33498603

Like 99% sure that mastery of magic 60 years after the awakening doesn't come close to what it had been in the 4th age. The present day fundamentals of quantum physics are pretty well mapped out but any physicist will tell you there's a ton of shit we don't know it, including things you'd think would be elementary to the field

>> No.33498608

The thing is all dragons are aware of what is eventually coming, but very few seem to actually care. There is something going on there beyond personal interest or else the circle of dragons actively pushing back against the herald spirits would be larger.

I literally just told you where to look. Check out the specialties under the mechanical skills. The specialty for walker drones is anthroform (Though it was changed to walker because they realized most walker drones are not actually anthroforms).

>> No.33498652


Hrm? She's just not got all her goodies anymore, Hest is far from gone.

>> No.33498657

Because then they'd have to cancel wyrm talk.

>> No.33498677

Well yeah. She is explicitly working from the shadows now, but many purposes she is "Gone." One of her most important roles was to be a metahuman friendly dragon voice and to drop huge warnings about dragon politics to metahumanity.

>> No.33498705

Ah, okay then, what about skimmers? Would they qualify as hover and thus fall under automotive?

>> No.33498712

From the dragons' perspective they may not even be particularly assholish and it's just from our point of view that they're dicks. They see humanity like we see ants, right? When was the last time you were nice to a bunch of ants?

>> No.33498732

That Welsh dragon isn't that bad, is he?

>> No.33498769

Aztech called, they are hiring

>> No.33498774

She's trapped in the shadow realm with Sirrug, that's as close to dead as you can get.
When they were creatures with a language oh wait.
Besides, ants are easy to kill, and judging by the fact Firewing is very dead and no other dragon has been dumb enough to go for the burn and loot strategy(except for sirrug, who is now dead for all intents and purposes), humans apparently are not.

>> No.33498785

They see us more as very intelligent dogs.

Which one is that, Celedyr? He seems content to just sit on his ass and surf the matrix all day ,seeing as he's the only dragon capable of doing so.

>> No.33498835


Most dragons recognize humanity as more than mere insects. They have to. Its more like a lack of respect, like really extreme racism.

Very few dragons actually see metahumanity as full on equals. Even the nicer dragons usually have a racist paternalistic view of metahumanity. It is pretty much Big D ,Hestaby, Schwartzkopf, and party dragon who's name I can't remember recognizing humanity has plenty to offer dragonkind besides wealth and servitude, and who don't view humans as infants they need to rule for their own good.

>> No.33498840

It's so much less complicated then you think.
In short; dragons are just like ANY kind of powerful person, in that they spend so much of their time and effort maintaining their own power just so they can find time to pursue whatever interests or goals they have.
You know how human politicians side with energy companies tossing money around to "disprove" global warming even though one day that is SERIOUSLY going to bite us in the ass?
Well dragons aren't much different in the end; the next Scourge is gonna happen in another 2000 years or so, and that's a LONG time, even for them, so they both figure they have enough time to put it off.
Of course that meant the Big D was paying enough attention to notice Aztlan, but hey; the ice caps have been proven to be shrinking WAY faster then normal, and still nobody takes proper steps, so there you go.
They're perfectly capable of politeness.
Celedyr STILL plots and plans to maintain his power and resources like all the others, but he probably sees it as an annoying distraction from developing his true passion, which is Matrix technology. He's just REALLY into computers.

>> No.33498851

Actually, Hestaby was a regular Shadowlands poster before it went down.

>> No.33498892

Yeah but Celedyr is the only dragon that can go VR.

>> No.33498914

Schwartzkopf's a weird case, like Celedyr.
He almost certainly has political or corporate interests, but it's all secondary to his primary "hobby", which is basically teaching people about magic.

>> No.33498948

I have to disagree.

The reason "Don't deal with a Dragon" is a mantra is because dragons play an amazingly long game and it will always come back to bite you. A dragon is the last person you would expect to make long term sacrifices for short term gain. It goes against everything we know about dragons to suggest that. Dragons can easily survive stuff like the horrors, so it isn't like they are even being short sighted. By every account as a species they would be better off without metahumanity mucking things up for them.

The thing is that list isn't about "Having no personal interests in power."

It is a list of dragons who find genuine value in metahumanity, and Schwartzkopf definitely counts.

>> No.33498999

>Dragons can easily survive stuff like the horrors
Ok, dragons are strong, but "easily"? Just no. Horrors and dragons are basically arch-enemies and one of the (if not the) mightiest horror explicitly hunts, kills or gruesomely warps dragons.

>> No.33499002


Wait, WHAT? Where you getting your info, chummer? She's not trapped with Sirrung, at ALL.

>> No.33499004

I'm very curious. Where does the thread image come from? That 5 year old sammy is adorable.

>> No.33499007

Dude, with the Shadowrun games I don`t understand.
There are three things about Shadowrun:
Augment shit
Magic shit
And Hacking shit.

If you can`t put good hacking in your game (that by the way blow pass it`s budget), why even make it a Shadowrun game

>> No.33499039

Hell if I remember. I thought she was thrown in there as a result of the dragon civil war, but I didn't pay much attention and instead filed it under "metaplot faggotry" right next to harliquin.

>> No.33499064

Why? It's not like they get good hacking in the tabletop.

>> No.33499070 [SPOILER] 


>> No.33499089

No, she just got kicked out of Mount Shasta and is kinda in disgrace. Definitely not banished with Sirrurg.

>> No.33499107


Nah, not at all. Stripped of her horde and set to wander about. In some ways, she's a hell of a lot more free then anyone else.

>> No.33499113

Oh, sorry. Got confus.
Why did they even save Sirrug's ass if they were just gonna throw him in the shadow relm anyway?

>> No.33499116 [SPOILER] 

matrix dragon defense force detected

>> No.33499140

Read more Earthdawn stuff; it becomes quite apparent that what dragons are doing NOW is what they were doing THEN in most cases, with some shifts stemming from modern technology.
They all went to sleep for 6000 years of so and then when they woke up they picked up all their old feuds and stupid politics and conflicts with the Immortal Elves IMMEDIATELY where they left off. Some Immortal Elves founded a pair of new elven nations unfriendly to dragons (something they were doing in Earthdawn), Lofwyr started trying to own everything in the world again (only he had more resources to be better at it now), Schwartzkopf started studying magic and teaching again, etc.
Dragons are INCREDIBLY self-absorbed as individuals, so their version of "the long view" is "whatever personally benefits me and promotes my interests the most over the longest period of time".
Their interests are sometimes beneficial to humanity, sometimes not, but it could even be argued that they're MORE selfish then humanity because unlike human beings, who essentially need to cooperate to survive thanks to our many limitations, dragons do NOT.
Easily the most dangerous being in all of the combined settings.

>> No.33499180

>motorboating Hestaby's human form
>human form
chummer pls

>> No.33499182

Yeah. Dragons seem to be just planning to do what they used to do. Exactly my point. So Lofwyr taking action to defend metahumanity probably isn't just pure selfish action or else EVERYONE would be doing it.

>> No.33499201

In case they want to use him later.

>> No.33499202


Because they can let him out if they ever need him.

>> No.33499248

For motorboating you need two things, tits. Being reptiles dragons do not possess tits in their true forms.

>> No.33499264


Also, Draconic Law.

It's kinda a stickler for that sort of thing. You just don't let Humans execute a great if there's a single possible way to not do it. And he'd not done anything bad enough by Dragon Law to deserve death.

>> No.33499272

There is your average burning down orphanages while dancing and smearing baby blood over yourself, and there are cyberzombies. Eiger probably feels for fellow trog, and anyone with astral perception would just cry and want to shoot it dead if they took a look.

>> No.33499295

Lowfyr's just a bit more canny then the others, that's all.
I think Dunklezhan handing over responsibilities as Loremaster to him really woke him up a bit; contrary to what SRR shows us, in canon he had nothing to do whatsoever with stopping the Bug Spirits, and didn't even imply he knew they were showing up. He just didn't care.
I think Dunklezhan saying to him in his will;
>"Dude, so I know we don't ever get along but I acknowledge you're the next-most appropriate guy to be Loremaster. I'm handing over responsibility of our entire species over to you, so don't fuck this up, alright?"
really opened his eyes a bit.

>> No.33499317

Eh. It is all fan conjecture in the end. I read a lot into it because it makes Lofwyr more interesting a character but there is hardly any proof either way.

>> No.33499404

In canon, cyberzombies are more disturbing then anything else the Sixth World has to offer to look at on the astral. Even Bug Spirits.
You're looking at the yawning spiritual void where a man SHOULD be standing, but instead there's this mana-sucking empty man-shaped SPOT that moves and shoots and kills and somewhere in the back of your consciousness you can SEE he's still alive underneath all of that and you know, you KNOW the only thing he wants to do is die already and he CAN'T, all he can do is keep killing everything else and it NEVER STOPS.
Looking at a cyberzombie in the Astral plane is knowing for absolute certain that there ARE fates worse then death, and to Shadowrunners, who spend all their lives living by the seat of their pants and dying young, that is a very disturbing thing to confront.

>> No.33499469

What are some good metamagics to take? I'm thinking of Centering for my first one

>> No.33499548

Centering is a great metamagic.

>> No.33499645

If you're a Binder then Invoking is pretty fucking awesome.

If your GM is big on Investigation then Psychometry is badass.

Your group will love you if you take Shielding

>> No.33499702

This thread is about to be kill, someone post a new thread.
I would but I'm on my phone here.

>> No.33499738

>and judging by the fact Firewing is very dead
I'm relatively ignorant when it comes to lore, but I thought she was potentially alive just fucking off.

>> No.33499791


>> No.33499806

If they were going to do something with that, they would have by now.

>> No.33499829

Well, Dragonfall kind of does.

>> No.33499875

Sure, but that's not cannon

>> No.33500333

>tfw troll mountain waifu not canon

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