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30869503 No.30869503 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Which is the WORST adventure path by Paizo and why?

Gonna say Jade Regent.

>> No.30869524
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30869524

I have to agree, Jade Regent is terrible.

>> No.30869553

>which is the smelliest turd in the cesspool?

What an engaging conversation. Do continue.

>> No.30869558

>>30869553
Quality post anon.

>> No.30869565
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30869565

>>30869503
> tfw you will fug a half-elf.

>> No.30869569

Depends. some were written during beta testing.

>> No.30869580

>>30869569
How does that change OP's question at all? How does it 'depend'?

>> No.30869613

I keep hearing king maker is the best, is that true?

>> No.30869627

>>30869613

It is solid. If put some effort of your own into it it becomes excellent.

>> No.30869638

>>30869613
IMO, Rise of the Runelords is still the best. Kingmaker is fragmented and the kingdom building rules are fairly shit. It's nice in that it encourages your players to involve themselves, I guess, but honestly this should be happening anyway.

>> No.30869639

>>30869613
I really like the concept behind Kingmaker, but they managed to make the kingdom rules such a headache that my players and I just got bored and frustrated with it. It was actually the module that made me finally give up 3.5/Pathfinder.

>> No.30869711

Second Darkness is god-awful. Hurrdurr we so ebil look at our ebil AP hurrr fetishes.

>> No.30869829

>>30869503
>>30869524

As someone who has never played Jade Regent, what's so bad about it?

I only have experience with Wrath of the Righteous. I played some Carrion Crown but had to drop, but from what I hear the main antagonist in that is ass retarded. Council of Thieves I hear is kinda bait and switch but I dunno.

>> No.30869849

The kingdom rules for Kingmaker do take some learning, but once your group has it down it's a pretty fun subsystem to play with. It helps a lot to divide up the workload among players and GM as well. For instance, the GM adds up all the kingdom bonuses and penalties using an excel spreadsheet so we can figure/change them quickly and know where the bonuses are from, the treasurer tracks build point spending and earning month to month so there's a record of that, someone decides where to place buildings in cities and tracks that on maps, someone maps the whole kingdom as you explore it (same person as the city mapper for us.) So far development strategy and building planning has mostly been the 2 players that understand the system best/are into it the most with the others requesting certain things for reasons besides the bonuses they give like a library for doing research or a jail to hold prisoners or something better than a tavern to hold government meetings in.

It takes a motivated player base and the freedom to wander around the skeleton of the adventure path rather than doing only what's in it to get the most out of Kingmaker. If your party doesn't enjoy spending entire sessions debating law, conducting diplomacy, playing a kingdom development minigame, and setting policy for a fledgling new Kingdom it's probably not gonna be for you.

>> No.30869855

>>30869849
Oh, actual play thread for anyone that might be interested. http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?705699-Pathfinder-Kingmaker-in-Eberron

>> No.30869873

>>30869829
It's got a really bad subsystem for running your caravan and a lot of NPCs who have this whole Bioware-esque relationship mechanic going on.

I'd probably enjoy it more with a self-interested non-Good party because the basic assumed plot is kind of rubbish as well.

>> No.30870081

Shaelulu is a romancable option in Jade Regent tho, isn't she?

>> No.30870548

>>30869829
The entire second book has you trying to find one guy who can help you navigate the Crown of the World. And you keep getting tips on where to find them, and he's never there. It's 4 levels of "Sorry Mario, your Princess is in another castle..."

>> No.30871378

I think it's all been downhill since Rise of the Runelords, mostly because Paizo is locked down by "we really like 0/1st ed D&D" "we want to make epic adventures" and "but we need to make them all different!". You can only do the world-saving thing so many times before it becomes repetitive and you can only change the formula so far before it sucks.

>> No.30872050

>>30869711
Is way of the wicked any better?

>> No.30872146

>>30871378
Really if PF would put out a good hexcrawl that would be killer, and probably do a lot for their setting too.

The travel/kingdom-building adventures basically want to be that, but feel they have to stick to set paths and final threats.

>> No.30872518

>>30869613
I was actually going to jump into this thread to call Kingmaker the worst Paizo AP. The freeform found and run your own nation sandbox is a good premise for a campaign. It's a terrible idea for a published adventure path written by a company afraid of player agency.

The plot happens out of nowhere. In early modules, this takes the form of an owlbear wrecking your new capital with the players having no chance to prevent this, mitigate the effects, or even know in advance. It just happens, some number of blocks of your capitol are destroyed, no save.

In later modules, this takes the form of the BBEG suddenly appearing in the last module despite being virtually absent from the previous modules. She is present, but not in a way that's visible to the players. In fact, the module writers go out of their way to make it so the players cannot find out about her. For example, in the second module, the party finds a ring made of the BBEG's hair. This is what happens if you try to scry or something with the ring:

> Although fashioned from Nyrissa’s hair, using this ring as an aid in scrying the nymph is a poor choice—if the ring is used in this or any similar manner (such as to create a simulacrum), the ring instead explodes into a blast of lightning. This destroys the ring, counters the scrying (or other) effect, and inflicts 6d6 points of electricity damage in a 20-foot-burst (DC 15 Reflex halves).

Issues with the plot aside, the half-baked rules for hexploration, kingdom building, and mass combat are just awful. The kingdom building rules in particular are a mess of way too many small numbers being added together. These rules take what should be cool (exploring untamed wilderness! ruling a growing nation! fighting a war!) and turns it into a boring, tedious mess.

There's also the fact that whoever wrote the first module is apparently a tad rape-obsessed. Literally every female character in the first module has rape in her backstory.

>> No.30872643

>>30872518
>Literally every female character in the first module has rape in her backstory.
This can't be true.

>> No.30872699

>>30872643
To be fair, there's only like two female NPCs in the whole module. So it doesn't take much.

>> No.30872711

>>30872643
It's really not. Actually, it'd be more accurate to say there's almost no rape at all...because there are almost no women.
There's a trader's wife who gets no backstory, there's a bandit woman who got her position of authority in a gang by killing a couple bandits who wanted to rape her, and that's about it.

What I hated more about Kingmaker was that, as >>30872518 said, the villain in the AP-as-written is a non-entity for 9/10 of the story. The most she really does is jump into bed with every other villain. When she finally does start doing shit in the last segment of the AP, it's way too little too late.

Makes me glad the kingdom-building rules were rereleased in Ultimate Campaign, now nobody has to feel the need to buy Kingmaker to use them. That's all it could really boast anyway.

>> No.30872714

>>30872643
There are literally two female characters in first module - trading post owner's wife with no backstory, and bandit ringleader who's likely to be dead in five rounds after being seen. She have some kind of dark (and edgy) past, but I don't remember any rape, nor is she raped in front of players, nor they are likely to know about it, unless party wizard is obsessed with casting speak with dead on everyone party kills and asking if they ever were raped.
As a side note, what's the point of backstories 90% of parties would never hear?

>> No.30872732

>>30872711
Sadly I think the ones in UC are still kinda shit.

>> No.30872765

>>30869873
When I ran Jade Regent, I dumped both of those from the start. It ended up going fairly well, for a while.
Granted, it still took a lot of modifying to actually be something decent. And yes, that doesn't change the fact that it's pretty badly written.

>> No.30872774

>>30872699
Here are the two NPCS in question and the relevant quotes from the module:

Kressle, NE human ranger

> When her parents were killed after an ambush on a road, Kressle fled north from Mivon and into the Greenbelt. She managed to make her way through the dangerous region with a bit of luck, only to be caught by a group of the Stag Lord’s men. When two of them lost hands and fingers to her axes, their thoughts turned from rape to escape, and she followed the maimed and frightened bandits right up to the Stag Lord’s fort.
> "Stolen Lands", p. 29--30

Svetlana, NG human expert

> The bandits’ first visit was 3 months ago—they threatened to burn down the trading post and abduct Svetlana for their own amusements back at their camp if the Levetons didn’t agree to hand over all of the furs and trade goods they’d accumulated over the past month from hunters and trappers.
> "Stolen Lands", p. 10

>> No.30872783

>>30869873
So it's bad because of one minor feature about dating NPCs that you don't even need to use?

>> No.30872788

>>30870081
Yes, but I honestly preferred Kelda.
And it wasn't really a waifu kind of appreciation, but Ameiko actually kinda grew on me, but that was pretty much how the GM ran her.

>> No.30872808

>>30872774
>bandits threatening to rape women
Jesus christ, how horrifying. We should notify feminists that someone dared to print "rape" immediately!

>> No.30872824

>>30872808
^this^
It is medieval fantasy and they are bandits. If their firsts thoughts when coming across women are not of rape I would be somewhat surprised.

>> No.30872857

>>30872808
Not him, but the point isn't 'Oh god they talk about raping women! Alert the press!'

The issue is that there are: only two female NPCs, only one of them is more than briefly relevant, and both get the rape threat. It's unnecessary, meh-tier writing. I don't know how many fleshed out male NPCs there are since I haven't played it myself. If there aren't any or more than a few, then the first issue isn't an issue, it's just yet again meh-tier writing. If there's a lot, then it's dumb-ish writing.

>> No.30872868

>>30872824
How about ransom? Having that as their first thought would take a smarter bandit than average, but it'd avoid taking it into magical realm territory, especially if it's a PC they've captured/confronted.

>> No.30872874

So how's the Curse of the Crimson Throne? Our group is starting it next week, and I've heard some worrisome rumors. Should I be prepared?

>> No.30872891

>>30872868
Rape first, ransom later. Kind of how it works.

>> No.30872914

>>30872824
>>30872868
>>30872891
Every now and then you might get one who only wants to murder.

>> No.30872933

>>30872857
Well nobody really gets that much fleshing out in the AP book, but that's more the fault of the medium.
The one with the greatest amount of backstory is the main villain of the adventure, and he's barely in it until the PCs go after him at the end.
Oddly enough, now that I think of it, Kingmaker always was kind of a sausage fest. Bad writing or not, there's barely any women even mentioned, except for the "mastermind" of the whole AP, and she doesn't do shit to earn the role of climactic final battle of the whole campaign.
Not to mention that her backstory's utter fucking crap--slept with the wrong guy, got her heart torn out for it, took it badly. Somehow trying to take over the PCs' kingdom is her revenge.

>> No.30872956

>>30872914
The ones who think about murder first are probably still doing it for some kind of sexual gratification, it just so happens that they are achieving it through murder because they are sicker than the average bandit. But at the end of the day it always comes down to sexual gratification through violence.

>> No.30872978

>>30872933
It's like Nyrissa, those two broads from the first part, a nereid, some rulers wife and a bard who's manipulating him. Also a naga, I guess.

>> No.30872986

>>30872874
Tell your GM to take the "interactive cinematics" and remove the latter part. The formative parts of the AP run on them, and unless he's willing to let the PCs have more agency, it's going to be terrible.
Actually, the AP-as-written is built to run on PCs being bystanders in their own story while not-Zorro does all the heroics early on. Also, obvious BBEG is obvious.

>> No.30872990

>>30869503
I pulled various bits out of Jade Regent to use for a Tian Xia game. I liked the Forest of the Kami and the spirit encounters, the idea of the "pagoda of evil bad shit", and the concept of the Five Thunders and the Jade Regent's machinations.

>players all inadvertently wind up playing some sort of demi-human
>The Five Thunders escaped the pagoda-prison, conspire to put the half-oni Jade Regent on the throne
>he starts disseminating anti-demi-human (demi-humans being categorized under the broad term "yokai", along with elemental spirits/other mystical Japanese hoojeedoo) propaganda throughout the kingdom, creating both open hostility between the races and a weakening of the Kami's powers
>the Kami start feeding dream-quests to various yokai to bring them together to punch the Jade Regent in the dick
>for added anime schtick they're guided by a kitsune goddess who appears as a white skinned child with red eyes/markings dressed as a shrine maiden with a magic mirror

It was a pretty wildly successful game made better by the fact that all the players were down for some good ol' fashioned Japanese mythology anime.

>> No.30873019

>>30872978
Don't forget the brothel-running lesbian cleric and the centaurs. It's rather telling about Kingmaker when the most attractive and best-written ladies in the whole thing are the fucking centaurs.
I also remember there being some rebel leader girl who looked kind of cool, but she had less than a paragraph in Book 5, so too little too late.

>> No.30873029

>>30872978
You forgot the cultists of the CE hag god Gyronna from the second module. When listing female characters in Kingmaker, you shouldn't forget the "adulterous wives, embittered prostitutes, and suprned lovers" ("Rivers Run Red", p. 12).

>> No.30873036

>>30872714
>As a side note, what's the point of backstories 90% of parties would never hear?
Plot hooks for those who go off the rails.

>> No.30873037

>>30872990
Sounds pretty fun times.

>> No.30873044

>>30873029
Not gonna bitch too much longer about it, but seriously. Kingmaker guys much have been going through a pretty bad break-up or divorce or some shit.

>> No.30873125

>>30873036
Judging by this thread, /tg/ never go off the rails when playing APs. Or ever. Or ever play.

>> No.30873139

>>30873125
Honestly, I actually think I'd enjoy Legacy of Fire or, god help me, Curse of the Crimson Throne.
But, forever GM, what can you do?

>> No.30873154

>>30873125
What's the point of going off rails when playing AP, though? It's the rails that you're paying for in the first place.

>> No.30873314
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30873314

>>30869503
My group played Jade Regent, and it was pretty good, until OOC drama and slightly incompetent GM ruined it. Once we got rid of the fucking caravan mechanics, things went much better, and the adventures were fun. We're a very RP-heavy group, as well, so the Relationship mechanics were just a sort of guideline and an excuse to get some extra bonuses.

My biggest complaint is at Longthews' house. We're a party of good people, and had no reason to suspect that his guards were aware of his plans, so instead of going in guns blazing, we went for a more nonlethal approach. The servants were let go, and the guards were knocked out instead of killed. When we were finished, though, SHIT HIT THE FAN.

The infamy mechanic of that adventure path causes bad things to happen to you if you don't keep a low profile. Apparently, letting the guards and servants live caused our infamy to SKYROCKET.

One after another, we got sniped at, poisoned, ambushed by a golem, attacked by ninjas, nothing was safe! We were run ragged, exhausted, and one of us died, because we were merciful.

And the DM bitched we were being murderhobos afterward. Like, "No shit, we're murderhobos. Not being paranoid murderhobos almost got us killed."

Pic related: Poorly shopped character portrait for my aasimar paladin. He ended up taking possession of Suishen and was going to get his armor glamered to look like stylish clothes later on, so he'd stand out less. I didn't think that through, though, considering he's got a fucking halo, but I thought it would be cool. He also banged Shalelu.

>> No.30873979

>>30869503
From what I understand, the next to last book of Second Darkness doesn't function at all.

>> No.30874063

>>30873979
How come?

>> No.30874627

>>30872933
Kingmaker should really be a big wilderness exploration deal.

Have the intro come in with multiple ways to get whatever writ is giving you the authority to found a kingdom. Keep the bandits, the bandit leader has one of these writs. You could also steal one from this other place. It's rumoured some guy who died in this place had one. And if you do good things for this nation they'll give you one.

Then just have a huge exploration uniting all sorts of groups across the kingdom.

>> No.30874865

>>30874627
You know what could've been neat? If rather than making it an adventure path they just gave you solid Kingdom Building rules and then made a bunch of Dungeons & Dragons Gazetteer-esque things to go with it - build up a neat world for them to conquer and let the groups play in the sandbox.

>> No.30875500

If you fuck Ameiko you're fucking James Jacobs.

>> No.30875604

>>30875500
Who do I have to fuck to fuck SKR?

>> No.30875618

>>30869503
What's so bad about Jade Regent? My group is going to play it after we finish Wrath of The Righteous.

>> No.30875798

>>30875604

He's off the company so just call him up and hire him to suck your dick.

>> No.30875869

Running through Legacy of Fire now. Anything specific I need to watch out for? The moldbearer died already due to overuse of shadow hand maneuvers and I cut a few dungeons short to keep interest. On the other hand, I added a whole subplot about demon blooded elite gnolls because they were chewing through things too fast.
Goddamn survivor path psychic warriors.

>> No.30875900

>>30875869
>due to overuse of shadow hand maneuvers
Nigger are you saying you let somebody play a swordsage from ToB?

>> No.30875944

>>30875900
Well, I mean, not that guy, but what's the alternative? Making them play a fucking Monk?

>oh god you're actually good at your job!

>> No.30875954

>>30875900
Yes?
Had to mess with a few of the maneuvers, but mostly he was staying away from Setting Sun so I didn't have to mess with the CMB side of it.
Still doesn't save you when you try and "1v1 me faggot" the boss and his lieutenants by teleporting up three floors.
It was very fitting for the character, though.

>> No.30875981

>>30875954
You are a good GM.
That's all.

>> No.30876001

Jade Regent is one of the better ones out there, what you talking about.

It's better than Shattered Star and Serpent's Skull, at least.

Reign of Winter is still better.

>> No.30876047

>>30872808
That isn't the issue and you know it. I don't give a single fuck if somebody is using rape as a literary device because I can tell the difference between an imaginary narrative and real life.

What I do care about, however, is sprinkling rape on every NPC in a misguided attempt to make them interesting or tragic. It's silly and cringeworthy at best.

>> No.30876058

>>30875500

Not to mention that you will always be compared to her first boyfriend, and come up short.

>> No.30876107

>>30872857

You're in the middle of nowhere with nothing but you and a bunch of other foul-minded dudes to keep company.

You see a hole, you're going to fuck it, *especially* when no one seems to give a rats ass about you, the people who do send a constant stream of easily dispatched/captured adventurers (who tend to include attractive young women) and your Lord only asks for a constant stream of liquor as tribute.

>> No.30876118

>>30876047
Now I'm picturing a 'Rape Shaker' to sprinkle over text with.
Along with a 'Dead Family' shaker and a 'Tragic Dead Mentor' shaker.

Let's not forget the 'Evil Brother' shaker.

>> No.30876166

>>30876118
>not playing the Evil Brother

>> No.30876171

I've done Skull & Shackles. You don't save the world, and you can play total dickbags in it.

We did it as an evil group. Was loads of edgy fun.

>> No.30876179

>>30875981
>You are a good GM.
>That's all.
qft

>> No.30876203

>>30869613
>I keep hearing king maker is the best, is that true?

The adventures themselves are pretty good overall. Kingdom building is pretty shite even with the patches and expansions they put out. If you go into it for the hexcrawl, skip the shitty kingdom system and just handwave it to work at speed of plot it's pretty great.

For my money the Carrion Crown AP is prolly the best overall, even if it contains alot of filler. But that is true of all the AP's. Lot's of throwaway fights that only exists for XP grind. But I feel there is a great gothic horror fantasy feel that really easily comes to the forefront with only alittle work.

>> No.30876222

>>30876058

You mean Jacobs' first boyfriend.

>> No.30876236

Why do people hate Jade Regent? It's easily one of my favorites story-wise.

Yes, the Caravan system sucks. Either don't use it, or rewrite it to be much more robust and complex and useful like I did.

Yes, there are large chunks where you either handwave the travel time or have to make up stuff to fill the time between two points. Or you can do what I did and fit some short modules in there and run side-treks in all the cities they pass along the way.

But from a plot and character standpoint it's actually one of the better ones.

Curse of the Crimson Throne is also great.

Runelords is...eh, it's basic. I don't love, but I do really like the second book.

>> No.30876253

>>30876236
#1 answering your own question post today

>> No.30876288

>>30876001
What's wrong with Serpent's Skull? It looks kinda neat.

>> No.30876325

>>30876171
I hear it's better if you skip a lot of the first part, especially since most players are pretty resistant to being press-ganged.

>> No.30876351

>>30876171
I was irritated by the class recommendations for this one.

>> No.30876359

>>30876203
I wanted to like Carrion Crown, but the entire tone of the first book where a lot of the fights were "haunted shirt", and I didn't like the episodic nature, where every book was a self-contained horror movie without any ties to eachother.

>>30876253
The Caravan system isn't inherently tied to the game, and when I had it run without the system involved at all, it wasn't any worse.

But when I run it, I give players full control. The Caravan system is now a full-blown trade and economy simulator, where they can use their wagon-train as a profit machine by buying goods in one city and selling them for profit in another, as well as having them use the NPCs and a real map to plot out their own travel path so they can stop in the places they want to or avoid the ones they don't. And with some very easy-to-tack-on side content, all of the large stretches of time between two major plot points that would otherwise need to be handwaved because they have no content in them can be made into seamless additions to the game.

But honestly, if you're judging an AP negatively by whether or not it needs to have the GM change things to make it playable, then all APs are shit.

And if that's your position, what the fuck is the point of posting?

>> No.30876363

>>30876058
>>30876222

Reminds me of the time we finally got to the end of Jade Regent; after all the fanfare, we got a little bit of epilogue.

To skip the pleasantries and get right to the point, the guy who pursued Ameiko got fucked over pretty hard; he got her warmed up enough to accept marriage, but never managed to make her actually come to terms with her first love. He thought he got it all; an empire, money and power, a waifu, everything seemed to go as planned.

She cried out his name on their wedding night.

>> No.30876380

>>30876351

What were they?

>> No.30876409

>>30876288

The game starts with a shipwreck on a semi-abandoned island, the few non-hostile NPCs are pretty boring, and the pacing is horrible (and the crumb trail is stale.)

>> No.30876414

>>30876359
>But honestly, if you're judging an AP negatively by whether or not it needs to have the GM change things to make it playable, then all APs are shit.
Hey, you said it.

>> No.30876425

>>30876363
That seems like the GM fucking with him.

>TFW I will never get to finish Jade Regent because it's impossible to find a DM to take over the campaign for us and the one who tried to was the shittiest DM ever

I just wanted to get my asian waifu on...

>> No.30876461

>>30876414

Fixing the caravan and romance system is as simple as a 2 minute conversation with your DM that no one would really find fault with.

It's not like we're re-inventing the wheel here.

>> No.30876465

>>30876414
Some of them are absolute dogshit. Some of them have unenjoyable parts. A few of them have enough good content to merit running. All of them need DM fixing on a per-group basis.

Every single homebrew you've ever written or played in is just as shitty.

Campaigns are never very good, by definition.

>> No.30876469

>>30876363

Hopefully he sold her into slavery after usurping the throne

>> No.30876505
File: 37 KB, 577x435, I must rape.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30876505

>>30876166
>not playing the Rapist

>> No.30876527

>>30876465
>Every single homebrew you've ever written or played in is just as shitty.

Sure, but I don't get paid to make my homebrew campaigns.

>> No.30876536

>>30876469

He got kind of sullen about it before some other players (me included) chirped up and explained that having Ameiko's love doesn't actually matter, considering he's the *Emperor* and thus able to basically get his pick of the Empire's hottest women for mistresses.

>> No.30876537

>>30876469
But the whole premise of the Adventure Path is that you need to be of the right bloodline to sit the stupid Jade Throne.

>> No.30876554
File: 177 KB, 850x708, Smite Evil.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30876554

Which adventure path lets a player character score the most booty? Consent is unimportant, same with biological sex and gender. I'm talking booty quantity here.

>> No.30876560

>>30876527
I'm not sure what relevance that has to anything.

>> No.30876601

>>30876537
No, there's actually a specific part that says how the players would be next in line if Ameiko died, since there's no bloodline (Technically there's a sister in Westcrown, but she doesn't matter) to take the throne, the Scions would be next in line.

>> No.30876621

>>30876554

If the qualoity doesnt matter then any AP is fine

>> No.30876625

>>30876537
>But the whole premise of the Adventure Path is that you need to be of the right bloodline to sit the stupid Jade Throne.

Getting that amulet thingy at the end of Book 1 basically alters your bloodline to the point where you're considered an heir to the throne.

>>30876554

Technically Skulls and Shackles or Kingmaker, but that's only because you're able to build brothels and have access to a constant stream of booty.

If you're asking for named characters, then... I'd say Jade Regent, since you can technically bang the main NPCs due to simultaneous Relationship Point accruing.

Beyond that, I'd say Reign of Winter. Between the widow, the Centauress and Greta, there's enough ass to go around.

>> No.30876643

>>30876554
Skulls and Shackles, probably, since pirates.

Possibly Jade Regent if you DM lets you visit towns along your route and have some fun in them. Plus the NPCs.

>> No.30876667

>>30876601
Or you could fuck Ameiko, get her pregnant and once the child is born off her and put your child on the throne and rule through them as your puppet.

>> No.30876670

>>30876118
>Now I'm picturing a 'Rape Shaker' to sprinkle over text with.

What is Cthulhutech?

>> No.30876708

>>30876560

I'm saying I'm not a professional. Paizo theoretically is, therefore they should be held to a higher standard than any homebrew.

I don't see why Paizo should get a pass on having shitty mechanics/poorly planned adventure paths when it's their job to make adventure paths.

>> No.30876714

>>30876667
That's a thing too, I suppose.

Personally, I'm for tapping dat, but some people may not be.

>> No.30876715

>>30876601

What if say Ameiko would mysteriously vanish and the next day I'd have a tiefling slave girl slut who obeys my only command and totally isn't a polymorphed and mindfucked ameiko

>> No.30876752

>>30876715
Playing with yourself must be fun.

>> No.30876754

>>30876469

Beats the time the party bard (who had a thing for Shalelu) walked in on the Elf getting mounted by the barbarian. They were facing away from him, but the barbarian noticed. Since he didn't know the bard had a crush on Shalelu, he just grinned and gave a thumbs up before continuing.

The DM felt bad about that one, and made up for it with the bard becoming the hot item of basically every available woman in Ordu-Aganhei (the city you go to in Book 4.)

>> No.30876756

>>30876601
Soo...why they don't kill her right from the start then?

>> No.30876773

>>30876708
What does "get a pass" mean?

If someone takes the adventure, changes some things so it runs better, and then plays through it, they're "giving a pass" to a company?

You're like a child trying to throw a fit until no one plays things you don't like.

>> No.30876791

>>30876756

They need her to trigger Brinewall.

And then there's the sentient sword who would be more than a little pissed if he found out Ameiko died (you get him in Book 2.)

Best bet if you're insistent is Book 3, where you're in Arctic Land.

>> No.30876799

>>30876756
Why would you do that?

Do you not like asian sluts?

>> No.30876815

>>30876773
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect awesome campaigns from professional writers, is all.

>> No.30876846

>>30876756
Why would they?

>> No.30876857

>>30876799

>Ameiko
>Girl with a Romance Score of 40 where Shalelu is 35
>Slut

Eh, she doesn't seem like the type to partake in casual sex, even if she *is* a bard.

>> No.30876866

>>30876815
It's not unreasonable, but that's different than throwing a tantrum when people like things you don't.

People who run Paizo APs have moved beyond the "I wish this was completely perfect so I could consider playing it" and have decided to do the job of a DM and putting in a little elbow grease to make it into an actual game their players will enjoy.

>> No.30876952

>>30876643
>>30876625
Cool, I'll look into Skulls and Shackles, Jade Regent, Kingmaker, and Reign of Winter to recommend to the DM if he insists on an adventure path for next time. No reason I can't have a booty quest instead of some boring dungeoneering quest.

I'd even settle for exploring dungeons for booty.

>> No.30876962

>>30876857
Bah, scores. Anyone with decent Cha can have her in a few sessions.

Unfortunately, my character made to romance her via childhood friendship, had a Cha of 10, and the game didn't last long enough to actually do it.

>> No.30876988

>>30876952
Don't run Kingmaker. It's legitimately the worst thing ever written.

Zero content hexcrawl bullshit. If I wanted nothing but handwaving I would go watch a mime.

>> No.30877016

>>30876988
>Zero content hexcrawl bullshit.
Hexcrawls are the opposite of zero content.

>> No.30877031

>>30876799
The thing is that as long as she's alive someone might get the bright idea to get rid of you and marry her himself. With her out of the picture the gold-diggers are going to come for your dick. It's just much tidier.

>> No.30877061

>>30877016
>We explore this hexagon.
>Roll to see what you find
>Oh it's a cave
>No, there's no map, here's a generic cave map
>Inside is...ogres, I guess.
>Rinse and repeat until you find the bandit you're looking for.
>This is the entire book.

>> No.30877079

>>30877031
>With her out of the picture the gold-diggers are going to come for your dick. It's just much tidier.

Only works if you make a big fucking fanfare that you're heading to Minkai to take the diadem and become a big-dick Emperor on his big-dick Jade Throne.

Which is the opposite of what you want to do until Book 4-5, and by then you're not really in a position to sit around and discuss which slender Asian maid you want to mount.

>> No.30877082

>>30877061
That's a terrible hexcrawl, but a good hexcrawl isn't zero content.

It's literally just a huge chain of hooks and material.

>> No.30877084

>>30876866

Not that guy, but

>DM's job is to fix the product they paid for

No.
Not ever.

>> No.30877087

>>30876866
Lots of the complaints in this thread alone have been that the writing isn't very good and that the plots can get pretty dumb. Demanding professionalism is a far cry from demanding perfection.

>> No.30877114

>>30876754
That's pretty rough. The Bard should've killed the filthy cur. Shattered his mind and body, old school.

>> No.30877116

>>30877084
>paid for

No one pays for RPG books.

Who the fuck would ever do that?

>> No.30877123

>>30876952
>No reason I can't have a booty quest instead of some boring dungeoneering quest.

Just go right out and say you want a little more PC-NPC interaction (wink wink nudge nudge) for the next AP and I guarantee the DM will make them far more available, if not named NPCs than DM-creations.

>> No.30877127

>>30877087
Unfortunately, Paizo fans don't seem to understand that or actively rail against wanting their dev team to act professionally.

Fucking SKR.

>> No.30877142

>>30877116

I tend to buy RPG books that I like. Maybe that's just me.

>> No.30877150
File: 640 KB, 461x746, 1395009364487.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30877150

>>30877079
>you're not really in a position to sit around and discuss which slender Asian maid you want to mount.


Is this really part of the module, Anon?

>> No.30877156

>>30876962
>Bah, scores. Anyone with decent Cha can have her in a few sessions.

The scores are bullshit to the extent that getting to 40 Romance by Book 5, even if you give her every gift and do every "Ameiko will remember this" event, is almost entirely up to the roll of the dice.

>> No.30877171

>>30877116
The people who Paizo sells products to? They are a company after all.

>> No.30877190

>>30877114

The barbarian legitimately had no idea, and the bard had no idea the barbarian was courting her while they went out hunting (and that wasn't even their first coupling.)

>> No.30877203

>>30877127
Yeah, no, you're confusing two completely different things. Paizo's published adventuers are not the same as their rules.

And who gives a fuck? So some people look at the plots and say "this is cool", and some look at them and say "this is shit". How do you come to your seemingly objective analysis of which to accept?

You don't want to run them? Fine, but PLEASE invite me to sit in on your next game so I can give you every reason why it's shit. I'd be happy to do it, free of charge.

>> No.30877220

>>30877079
>Which is the opposite of what you want to do until Book 4-5
How come? You'd think that people would flock to you if you are going to be the next emperor.

>> No.30877221

>>30877082
Kingmaker isn't a good hexcrawl.

>> No.30877240

>>30877171
Everyone who has ever bought a product that is freely availible on the internet for no money is a retard.

That goes triple for the people who defend their purchase.

>> No.30877266

>>30877203
But the difference is that that anon is not a professional writer and game designer, of course his material is going to be shit.

>> No.30877269

>>30877150

Nope, and considering the situation in Book 5-6 you're not really going to find a quiet moment to do so.

Made doubly awkward since all of the daughters of Minkai's movers and shakers were kidnapped and held for ransom by the Jade Regent, meaning the only time you'll FIND time to sit down and discuss marriage is after the dust has settled.

The only time I can see a proper sit-down for marriage proposals occur is either in Kalsgard or the Crown of the World (not so much a formal arrangement as it would be a "I did what?" Moment) or *maybe* Book 5 when you're recruiting for the army (marry the daughter of a Ninja clan leader?)

>> No.30877285

>>30877240
I'm just saying that obviously enough people buy Paizo's products since they haven't gone bankrupt, is all.

>> No.30877300

>>30877082
Let me break down APs for you;

The usual AP goes like
>Intro scene
>Encounter
>Quest 1
>Quest 2
>Dungeon
>Boss fight

And over the process of that, each encounter and quest has a fairly well-defined setting, a map to go with, and specific goals.

Kingmaker goes like this
>Intro
>Dropped into the wilderness
>Handed huge hex map
>"Bandit is somewhere on this map, find him."
>Every square has pre-defined encounters and locations in it. But none of them have maps.
>Finding the dude you're looking for is random.
>The end.

>> No.30877306

>>30877220

The Five Storms *really* want to kill you, and the only thing standing between you and their armies is anonymity.

Hell, a Resistance Event in Book 6 involves you jumping up on stage and presenting Ameiko as the heir, and that's supposed to be a huge thing instead of a "oh, she's here already? Wowzers."

If you want fresh pussy begging to be your wife from all corners of the world, play Kingmaker.

>> No.30877324

>>30877300
>"Bandit is somewhere on this map, find him."

You're forgetting the important bit!

>"Bandit is somewhere on this map, find him."
>You find bandit at level 2
>"You need more resources and experience to return here!"

>> No.30877387

>>30877324
I don't remember that part, but that's because I never played it. I did read the first book, because players were asking me to run it, and I came to the conclusion that I just don't feel like running Random Encounter: The Adventure Path, where every week I have to compile a bunch of generic maps just to fit what the players might do.

That, and the entire first book was just "Make shit up until the book is over".

>> No.30877442

>>30877387
>I don't remember that part, but that's because I never played it.

I thought the bandit you were referencing was the Stag Lord, and accidentally coming across his fortress makes for an unpleasant experience at low levels.

>> No.30877512

>>30877306
Ehh, I might just as well come clean. Bioware has soured me so deeply that now whenever a game presents me with an Obvious Love Interest, I do my damnedest to treat them as badly as possible. Stabbing the intended waifu in the first encounter just feels cathartic, because I'm not letting some greasy game designer decide who or if my character is going to fall in love.

>> No.30877529

>>30876554
I am DMing a Skull and Shackles game. They are working on turning their ship into a floating brothel, and plan on adding a brothel to their base of operations. Every time the PCs capture any enemy sailors, they ask how many are female.

Now they are considering some male prostitutes to diversify their brothel and make more money

>> No.30877556

I found it pretty hilarious when I realised that jade regent had ripped off the relationship mechanics from dragon age. I mean, it's just so dumb. The whole point of that kind of mechanic in a computer games is that it's a lesser stand-in for actual role-playing. actually writing it up for use in a tabletop game is just so fucking backwards.

>> No.30877626

>>30877512
I don't like Jade Regent, but the waifu romancing is voluntary, you pick who you want your character to bang the shit out of.

At least, that's what I remember. It's been a while, honestly.

>> No.30877675

>>30877626

Why SHOULDN'T it be voluntary? Hell, any romances I do in a game tend to be with other PCs, if at all.

>> No.30877677

>>30869503

Well, as far as story starting, both the Mwangi campaign and the Shackles campaign get derailed immediately immediately if you detect poison.

And one of my players always uses it. And forvsome reason the writers don't consider what happens when a PC prevents the ship from consuming poisoned meals and is an elf who is immune to sleep spells

>> No.30877707

>>30877675
Well, >>30877512 was implying it wasn't.

>> No.30877749

>>30877675

The Jade Regent romances are completely voluntary, more often than not you'll just be close compatriots.

>> No.30877829

>>30877190
Yeah, but it's a bard. Bards are creatures of raw emotion and untamed Creative and Destructive energy. He should've shattered them both apart in a fit of mad spell-wrath, maybe a sonic boom from a man scorned, ya dig?

>> No.30877866

>>30877529
That sounds pretty based. Why did it take them so long to diversify their holdings, though? Do they lack business sense?

>> No.30877899

>>30877829
That's hurtful and racist stereotype, anon. Some of my best friends are bards and they are well-mannered and productive members of society.

>> No.30877985

>>30875954
This is why I just scowl at my players until they agree not to play a class with free access to teleportation.

Every single time, EVERY SINGLE TIME, they will teleport ahead of the party, into the room where the boss is hanging out, and then get themselves turned into a fine red mist before they can teleport out again.

'Scouting ahead' does not mean 'teleport into the centre of the room and make no effort to conceal your presence'

>> No.30878186

>>30876001
That one ended... uh. Derailed as all fuck for me.

On the other hand my players had a frickin blast after they turned it into Madsen Rape Assault, Violent Hotchkiss Inferno.

>The Aegis as an unholy cross between the Alteisen and a Stuka
>Father Mulcahy, devout believer in Jesus Khorne, our loving lord and savior.
>"Legend of Kage; Representative of the Rising Sun and chosen demonstrator of the gleaming soul sword of Most Glorious Nippon" (he loved introducing himself. Samurai/Soulknife btw)
Engineering Corps Unit 271: A single spellslinger and his double-headed eagle familiar

Seriously I have no idea what the fuck happened or at what point everything just slipped away, but it ended up quite awesome.

>> No.30879308

>>30878186
shit like this is why I play p&p RPGs. Bravo to your group

>> No.30879963

>>30877116
APs are usually bought.

>> No.30880528

>>30877829
>bards

>killing barbarians

BIDF please go

>> No.30880853
File: 2 KB, 187x147, 1284841274899.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30880853

>>30877899
>bards
>well-mannered
>productive

>> No.30881423

>>30872050
I'm actually running it right now. It's pretty good. Has some great ways to introduce undead to your Players. It's pretty open ended as well if you want to do your own thing with it.

>> No.30881666

>>30880528
>Bards
>Killing Barbarians
It's more likely than you think. Assuming the Bard player is competent, at least.

>> No.30881699

>>30881666
Satan knows what he's talking about. Bards > Barbarians in Caster Edition

>> No.30882324

So can I take it by a process of elimination that the Pathfinder APs not discussed so far are at least more or less the better ones? Stuff like Shackles, Winter, Wrath, etc...?

>> No.30883257

I'll do a pro then a con on each
RotR: Perhaps the most 'classic' in feel. Basically little to take the players from book 1 to 2.
CotCT: Great RP possibilities. Sadly, the story sort of drags...
SD: Drow and elven conspiracies! Sort of dichotomous from where you were (helping/running a casino) to where you go (delving into a deep cavern miles below to stop the drow).
LoF: Like CotCT, has some good RP possibilities if done right. Problem: you basically can't find anyone wanting to play this.
CoT: Some of the greatest NPCs if done right. Few GMs can handle this as written, requiring a lot of problems if not handled right.
KM: Hex adventure, kingdom building and war! Villains from no where and shitty kingdom building rules.
SS: Deal with ancient evils. You basically have no reason to...
CC: Dark, gothic horror of undead magic. Sort of hamfisted about how it does this.
JR: Journey to the West in an AP (only you go North, then East). Shit caravan rules and everyone wants to play ninja/samurai weeaboo bullshit and bang Ameiko so they can be emperor or Shalelu because she's an elf.
S&S: Pirate adventure on the high seas! Requires a lot of reading and prep for the GM, a lot since the PCs can run off and do stupid shit way earlier than the AP as written calls for.
ShS: Travel around in Adventureland (Varisia) seeking the pieces of an ancient artifact! You are basically playing Dungeon Crawl: The Game.
RoW: Stop Baba Yaga's daughter from making a new ice age and fight Rasputin! Sadly, this is heavily railroaded because the characters are Geased almost right off to do so.
WotR: Take on demons crusader style and gain mythic (epic) tiers! Basically, mythic rules make you fucking crazy, either playing as a character or running as GM.
MM: Too new, but hey, dark skinned elf and slave husbando from what I hear...

>> No.30883688

>>30882324

Personally, my big three are Rise of the Runelords, Reign of Winter and Jade Regent.

>> No.30883714

I was DMing Jade Regent but yesterday the party wiped to six unarmed skeletons.
I want to move on to a more straightforward system because my players are dumbasses and pathfinder isn't that forgiving but half of them are bad at learning new systems and the other half have had bad experiences with other systems and find them less enjoyable than TPKfinder.

>> No.30883745

>>30883257
>Bang Ameiko to become the Emperor
>You literally can become the Emperor anyway because of the magic macguffin and can just ignore Ameiko

>> No.30883890

Best APs: Runelords, Crimson Throne, Jade Regent, Shattered Star, Reign of Winter
Worst APs: Serpent's Skull (what a fucking joke and a half), Skull and Shackles (just run Razor Coast if you want Pirates of the Fucking Caribbean, you're not railroaded for two damn adventures in Implausible Pirateland), Carrion Crown (ha ha how do I design coherent campaign guys), Kingmaker (BBEG? What's tha-- oh wait)
>>30873979
>>30874063
It functions IF your players are willing to deal with the Elves and their stupid endless bullshit.
If you want to run Second Darkness it's best to heavily modify the first few adventures so that the players are elven operatives from the start. Doesn't really make much sense otherwise.
>>30876203
Carrion Crown is ass, they even admitted that they fucked up by not introducing the villain early enough.
Also it was supposed to be called "Charnel Crown" which actually makes sense but they're fucking retarded and spend every single day getting high rather than doing any sort of real work, how they produce any sort of decent material I'll never know.
>>30882324
>Wrath of the Righteous
Only good if you modify it to work without the Mythic rules, because they are -terrible-.

>> No.30883979

>>30883257
>You are basically playing Dungeon Crawl: The Game.
Yeah, but the dungeons are all really, really good so who cares?
Fuck, you go to Kaer Maga, which is basically the Material Plane equivalent of Sigil. You can accidentally end up in the cloned body of Runelord Sorshen, in a dungeon full of people pretending to be Runelord Sorshen. You go to the DREAMLANDS OF LENG.
It's amazing.

>> No.30884000

>>30883714
It is practically impossible to get wiped in PF unless you're being retarded, the system is designed to favor the players...

>> No.30886410

Curse of the Crimson Throne is actually very good.

I've been having a great time running it, and the 2nd book is really, really good. The problem is, I'm not good enough to run a big, bustling city that has lots of stuff going on. It kind of kills a lot of the parts that are about...walking around a city.

And since I despise handwaving, going across the city from place to place means needing dozens of things players can see every time they go somewhere.

But other than that, it's good.

>> No.30886619

>>30886410
I had a problem with the timescale and logistics of some events.
That and the Queen is a really obvious BBEG and some players might have the brilliant idea of trying to assassinate her before she gains her 19 Bard levels, which... worries me.
Also, while Scarwall is a great fucking dungeon, leaving Korvosa seems... wrong, somehow.
I wish it'd get a reprint like RotR did, but hurrrr money money money

>> No.30886884

>>30886619
Yeah, I agree, it could use a reprint/overhaul.

Honestly, my players just finished with the second book (literally ended our last session rolling the DC to craft the cure) and their conclusion was "The Queen is probs evil, but we can easily see how she can just deny any connection or knowledge of the Docs so it's a moot point right now". I haven't seen a group who would go out of their way to derail the adventure right out of the gate, much like I've never seen a group say "Fuck Ameiko, we kill her first session." No one does that.

I haven't gotten around to Scarwall, but it looks intimidating. I want to like dungeon crawls, but I dislike when certain things get so monotonous people just start skipping over things because it happens so often.

But Escape from Old Korvosa looks pretty cool. Lots of flavor in the Arkona bits.

>> No.30887104

>>30886619
>>30886884

I've had a lot of the same problems running it recently. I tend to do sandbox games anyway, so what I've decided is to scrap books 4 and 5 and their related content, and reintroduce Serithtial in a way that keeps the drama focused on Korvosa. As of right now (book 2) it looks like my party is about to try to depose Ileosa soon anyway (and honestly, any GM that has read CotCT has probably foreseen this kind of early situation), so in case they pull it off I feel like it'd be rather easy and natural to have Lorthact, Serignatto or the cult of Kazavon pulling the queen's strings.

>> No.30887152

>>30887104
Trying to depose Ileosa in Book 2 means you get thousands of people killed, unless you somehow broke the plot and cured the plague halfway through.

>> No.30887238

>>30887152

You might say my party has very twisted priorities. But I'm willing to run with it if that's what they want, since I love seeing things run off the rails almost as much as they do.

>> No.30887648

>>30883745
Once one opens the warding box, all players in the room at that point are magically made scions of the royal house, not the immediate heirs. Now if you want, an evil player could bump off Ameiko or if in some way they die anyway (shit happens), then they can be made heirs.

At least, that's how I read it. But yeah, ran it once and tried to coordinate the group, and one guy who had her as his sister still wanted to bang her (wincest, I know, but still).

>> No.30888336

>>30886884
>But Escape from Old Korvosa looks pretty cool. Lots of flavor in the Arkona bits.
Rakshasa are damn cool villains, they need more love.

>> No.30888350

>>30888336
Yeah, the major problem is, from what I gather, them fighting to the death. It removes a lot of mystery from them.

>> No.30888353

>>30888350
Could always work around that, I guess.

>> No.30888376

>>30888353
No, no you can't. How do you do that when the party is supposed to storm the mansion of an entire family of Rakshasa and fight...all of them? Just have them leave when they hit 1/3 HP?

>> No.30888378
File: 25 KB, 209x400, sawdick.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30888378

>>30872914

We never said that this wasn't the case.

But what about murder by dick? After an unfortunate encounter with a freshreaver I had some warforged implants and it is the only way I can love myself ;_;

>> No.30888433

>>30884000

We almost got wiped in Rise of the Runelords by being retards. Ended up fighting Barl or however you spell his name, 2 lamias and something else I believe. Party rolled initiative, magus argued for us to hang back so he could haste us. We listened to him, too a fireball early and had to pop a symbol of healing. From there on in it was crits, tripped barb having his wisdom cucumbered, ek healer failing to hit anything then getting splattered after saving the rogue, and the rogue and paladin standing at single digit hp with the magus just finally pushing Barl over by like 3 damage which was really lucky due to the magus rolling high damage when he needed it (cause quite frankly, average would have left barl alive and he woulda fucked the paladin and rogue leaving only the magus).

>> No.30888471

>>30883890
Whats so bad about the mythic rules?
I'm running wrath of the righteous now and the group is about one game away from laying siege to drezen. I have not found anything wrong with mythic rules aside from the fact that it makes players fucking powerful.

>> No.30888753

>>30872783
Idunno how you read, but the guy pointed three things
1)caravan running
2)romance
3)overall plot
as bad.
Which adds up to pretty much entirety of the module.

>> No.30889127

>>30876359
>But honestly, if you're judging an AP negatively by whether or not it needs to have the GM change things to make it playable, then all APs are shit.
Yes, that IS the criteria.
How much extra effort would a GM need to put in it to make it fun and playable. That amount of effort equals the amount of badly done shit in the AP. The more of it, the worse the AP.

Looking it from other point. You want to run a campaign. AP is a product that provides you with ready material with a theme that you want ("Kingdom-building!" "Pirates!" "Undead stirring!" etc)
The amount of stuff that you can take straight out of the book and play with minimal modification determines how much bang you got for your buck. If that amount is small, it's a bad AP.

>> No.30889132

>>30869503
Second Darkness hands down objectively the worst.

>> No.30889197

>>30869503

I personally dislike Council of Thieves, because you spend all of the first module building up a badass resistance group: However, they have no part to play in any of the modules to follow.

The second module TELLS YOU THAT.

>> No.30889210

>>30869873

>running your caravan

Never use any rules but Magical Society: Silk Road. Of course then your players will become obsessed with trading and forget that terrible AP altogether for more gold and the finer things.

>> No.30889235

>>30889132
Why?

>> No.30889241

>>30889197
Christ, is there even a good reason for that?

>> No.30889272

>>30877061
Really? The way I figured after reading KM's first module is that if you want and pull off the tracking rolls (or capture and interrogation), you can pretty much go straight Trading Post - Forest Camp - Bandit Fortress.
And then level grind on the hexcrawl before part 2 happens.

>> No.30889445
File: 397 KB, 750x868, Seoni.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30889445

So which PF NPC would you bang if you could only pick one

>> No.30889677
File: 606 KB, 1280x1810, Feiya.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30889677

>>30889445
Feiya

>> No.30889700

>>30889677

wild shaped or normal

>> No.30889804
File: 83 KB, 571x1000, Space Amiri.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30889804

>>30889445
Space Amiri

>> No.30889830

>>30889804

sauce? also moar?

>> No.30889854
File: 138 KB, 846x1500, Barbarian.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30889854

>>30889830
Tragically, I have no more Space Amiri. It's from...I think GM's handbook by Paizo, though I can't recall. Whichever spent time talking about changing up your setting's tech and stuff like that, and mentioned putting a sci-fi slant on things.

But yeah, probably Amiri..

>> No.30889889
File: 221 KB, 1680x1120, PZO1117-RageWitch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30889889

>>30889700
Normal. Although if she will insist...

>> No.30889941

>>30889854

Do you have any space Seoni?

>> No.30889981
File: 615 KB, 1680x1147, holidaycard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30889981

>> No.30890142

My group ran Jade Regent, I only came in after they got across the world, and I had to basically engineer a reason for my character to join up. Once that was done, my Inquisitor/Ninja of Shelyn, dedicated painter and seamstress, who had a blood oath to protect and assist the true heir to the Jade Throne, followed the group. The party was suspicious of me, but I was lawful good, and I passed their meager tests.

The real problem came from the group being -WAY- too powerful for the AP, despite the GM beefing stuff up, they'd all built incredibly dangerous characters, and some people would never get to participate in the battles.

Then the GM introduced his rules for ninjas and shadowclones.... I made a point of breaking that one over my knee, to get it back to normal.

He basically made shadowclones work like this:They have your stats, your feats, your class features, your skill ranks, no magic items, and 1/4 your hp. So I bought Outflank, Seize the moment, Paired Opportunist, Combat Reflexes, and Gang up. He also made keen and improved crit stack, so I have improved crit: katana, and two keen katanas. I naturally had Two weapon fighting, because duh, ninja.

Long story short, I did more than 2,000 points of damage to the thing in the bottom of the tower in the Forest of Spirits, before I had actually spent all my attacks of opportunity. The GM changed the rule and made me switch two of those teamwork feats.

>> No.30890145

>>30889854
>>30889981
>>30889889

No idea what it is about Paizo girls.

>> No.30890187
File: 78 KB, 367x611, cbc9Cups1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30890187

>>30890145
Art style? There's a very specific artist for Pathfinder stuff.

>> No.30890193

>>30889197

Wow, really? That sounds like a waste. They use the same author for the whole path, right?

>> No.30890333

Kingmaker is a great adventure path if you ignore the kingbuilding rules and just narrative it instead and enhance the main villains involvement/making it into a constant mystery the players will scratch their heads over.

You also require a group that just wants to randomly fuck around, and that takes plenty of initiative on their own. I did not have this kind of group, so it was not really a good adventure path, as the players couldn't make interesting shit happen with their kingdom if their life depended on it.

>> No.30890534

>>30890187

They use a lot of different artists. WAR is pretty shit tbh

>> No.30890656

>>30890193
They never do at Paizo.

>> No.30890689

>>30890193
That leads us to what is quite possibly the biggest underlying problem with Paizo adventure paths: a lack of cohesion between parts.
The authors don't seem to be communicating with each other, or with the artists, a lot of the time. It's rare, but sometimes you get a situation where characters change race, class, or even backstory between books.

>> No.30890697

>>30890656
>>30890689

That's absolutely ridiculous. You'd think a big concern between multi-part storylines would be a sense of basic fucking continuity.

>> No.30890708

>>30890689
>It's rare, but sometimes you get a situation where characters change race, class, or even backstory between books.

Saouce?

>> No.30891104

>>30890142
>He basically made shadowclones work like this:They have your stats, your feats, your class features, your skill ranks, no magic items, and 1/4 your hp. So I bought Outflank, Seize the moment, Paired Opportunist, Combat Reflexes, and Gang up. He also made keen and improved crit stack, so I have improved crit: katana, and two keen katanas. I naturally had Two weapon fighting, because duh, ninja.
Damn, man. Body Outside Body was bad enough when it was a 7th level Wu Jen spell that created 1/5CL clones that can't cast spells.

Combine with Archmage to give 'em BoB as a SLA for fun and Kage Bunshin. And Psion/Psychic Theurge or Crusader/Jade Phoenix Mage so they can actually do stuff. Man, I fukkin love the Wu Jen.

>> No.30891360

>>30891104
Wu Jen into Jade Phoenix Mage was mad sexy, Anon. Such fun...

>> No.30894254

>>30888471
Martials get things that they should have always had and casters get things that make them even more ridiculous.
If you aren't noticing this disparity, you're not playing with an Archmage or a Hierophant.

>> No.30894315

>>30890193
>>30889197
Second module was written by SKR, by the way.
The real way to run CoT is to have your characters play Pathfinders trying to restore the lodge, which forms a big part of the AP anyway. Then you get involved in the Westcrown politics stuff almost by accident, but being responsible guild members, well....

>> No.30894325

>>30894315
>Second module was written by SKR, by the way.

The kiss of death.

>> No.30894332

>>30890534
I remember when people loved Wayne Reynolds.
Then he started working for Paizo, /tg/'s #1 most hated company.
What a mistake that was.

>> No.30894415

>>30894332
I haven't seen anyone else complain about him recently. Also, people have opinions about art styles. I find Reynolds okay, and PF subpar. Shit doesn't have much relevance to each other.

>> No.30894526

>>30890708
It's not often, but once in a while you notice something. Doesn't even have to be major, but it's a strong sign that something is rotten at Paizo.

Best example I can remember is Legacy of Fire part 1, the cleric in a caravan is described as a redheaded halfling. Two pages later, there's artwork of an old white-haired guy.

Plus, the idea of Jade Regent kinda bothered me when I started reading up on Minkai. The wiki page hadn't been edited to reflect the AP yet, so it still talked about how the people loved the Regent while the nobility thought he was a dick, and the throne was called (I think) the Sakura throne instead of Jade throne--a little weaboo, but seemed more appropriate to not-Japan.

>> No.30894544

>>30894526

I guess Shaelulu changes appearance quite drastically, but that could just be the artists not thinking

>> No.30894573

>>30894544
Well, sometimes it's a force for good. They made her look less freakish, then they took it a step further and posed her a little less like a hooker.

>> No.30894574

Either Jade Regent or Kingmaker. The idea behind each was good, but the execution was not so good.

Rise of the Runelords is still probably the best adventure series ever released by Paizo, including the old days of Shackled City. Karzoug was an absolute baller of a bad guy, the NPCs had character without being oppressive, and I don't think any of the adventures had weak subplots or villains except maaaaybe the Stone Giants one, and that was just because it was an homage to an older adventure that had a boring premise. Hook Mountain Massacre and The Skinsaw Murders were both fucking amazing.

>> No.30894592

>>30894573

I kinda looked the angular original face because I didn't think a crazy guerilla leader needed to be pretty. Then JR came out and she was suddenly this elf amazon with shapely tits and all just in time for the romance system. Just felt kinda lame, yannow?

>> No.30894609

>>30894325
It's more that during this particular era (CoT/KM/SS) they were having production problems... Jade Regent was supposed to come out much earlier, but was replaced with the obviously-rushed and poorly-designed Serpent's Skull.

>> No.30894614

>>30894592
Yeah, I can see that, kinda.

>> No.30894722

>>30894592
The first depiction was radically different from all to fallow. Sort of brown, green haired elf with ears the size of 747 wings and an axe to grind with some bugbear.

Then she became a svelt white girl, but she still had that absolutely murderous look of passiveness on her face.

Then we got her appearance in Skyfall or whatever the one with the meteor was, her eyes are now solid black and she looks like a serial killer.

Then we get to Jade Regent and she lost all of the menace, got more of a boring, buxom look. The latest incarnation (OP pic) looks a lot more in line with the earlier depictions. That is a woman who survived Rise of the Runelords, Second Darkness, and all of the other bullshit that the PCs presumably pulled her through in those adventures.

>> No.30894751

>>30894722
She still looks a bit pretty for my tastes, but I do think we can all agree that it is much better than the last one.

>> No.30894845

>>30894722
The best part is, she was a ranger with Favored Enemy: Goblins who was over 1st level, and she's like 80 years old. That means that fighting goblins was clearly her life's obsession.

"Come on Shalelu, we're going to solve the Skinsaw Murders!"
"Is the Skinsaw a tribe of goblins?"

"Come on Shalelu, we've got to save Hook Mountain!"
"Are there goblins there?"

"Come on Shalelu, we need to deal with the Runeforge."
"Does it forge goblins?"

"Come on Shalelu, we've got to go to the lost city of Xin Shalast!"
"Is it a goblin city?"

"Come on Shalelu, let's go fight Karzoug!"
"Is he a goblin?"

>> No.30895225

>>30894845
Why would Shalelu be involved with the campaign past the first book? Even having her in Thistletop is just handing the fights over.

>> No.30895382

>>30895225
She figures to a degree in Hook Mountain Massacre, where her step-father is leading a beleaguered group of rangers against some ogres. She's prime Cohort material by that point.

>> No.30895633
File: 63 KB, 778x1212, Shalelu JR.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30895633

>>30894722

This is from JR I believe?

>> No.30895764

>>30895633
That's the one.

>> No.30895802

>>30894845
>>30895633
Both the OP pic and your pic are from JR.

>> No.30895830

>>30895633
It'd be a decent picture if it wasn't an already established character with a very different feel and if she didn't have goddamn double Ds and a boob window. Seriously. Isn't she a ruthless, pragmatic elf? I don't think their species is known for their mammary size (outside of porn and Japan, that is).

>> No.30895850

>>30895802
Christ. Now that's what I'd call a tonal clash.

>> No.30895899

>>30895850
One is the cover art, the other interior art.
So yeah.

>> No.30895953

>>30894845

And then they say no, she gets grumpy, but goes along anyway.

Because the power of friendship!

>> No.30895991
File: 6 KB, 280x350, 1395087944399.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30895991

>Looking through Jade Regent book 1
>Notice Koya has a relationship score
>mfw

>> No.30896043

>>30895830
>if she didn't have goddamn double Ds and a boob window. Seriously. Isn't she a ruthless, pragmatic elf? I don't think their species is known for their mammary size (outside of porn and Japan, that is).

I guess they wanted to make her more appealing as a relationship option by making her the big-breasted badass.

Which is silly because her super-svelte green-haired look was infinitely more attractive and Ameiko already had the whole "chesty fiery lass" thing down.

>> No.30896087

>>30895991

Not only that, but she has a Romance score.

She's the easiest lay in the AP.

I'm still disappointed they didn't give Kelda Oxgutter a Relationship score, I want me some strong Nord woman.

>> No.30896088

>>30889854
I like using barbarian pic related whenever paizofags go all 'muh realism'.
This chick mugged cloud and stole his sword. That's about as unrealistic as you can get.

>> No.30896146

>>30894325
Ghostwalk was made by SKR and Monte Cook. It's... surprisingly good. Even when the crunch breaks down, the fluff is good enough that you're willing to deal with it.
>>30894332
I still like Wayne. The game may suck, but the art is nice.

>> No.30896157

>>30896088

I've always wanted to get a Strongman to wield some giant weapon and see how it works out. You know, the kind of guys who flip kegs over walls for fun, or drag airplanes with their nipples for giggles. Put him in a ridiculously large suit of armor wielding a 40 lb. greatsword and just see how long it takes to tire.

>> No.30896178
File: 113 KB, 800x297, nostalgia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30896178

>>30894845
Replace Nazi with goblin and you're set.

>> No.30896231

>>30896157
Quickly. Very quickly.

>> No.30896245

>>30896146
Probably more Monte Cooke than SKR. Cooke's fluff was always fine.

>> No.30896285

>>30896157
Strongmen are good at lifting things, but lifting is a slow process that involves using all the muscles in your body. You use your legs, your core, your arms, your back, etc. all in sync. It's slow, so there's no fighting inertia, really.

Swinging a sword is a very different thing, it's not a slow motion. It's jerk response that requires you to throw large bursts of strength very quickly. Since it's quick, most of the energy you expend will go into overcoming the weapon's inertia, and you'd get tired very quickly.

>> No.30896323

>>30896088
When do Paizofags ever go "muh realism?" It's a D&D derivative. You can't seriously advocate for realism in a game with monk missiles, peasant railguns, wizards, and flumphs.

>> No.30896350

>>30896323
>When do Paizofags ever go "muh realism?"

It's the go-to argument on the Paizo forums whenever someone complains about the martial classes getting shat on.

Even by the makers themselves.

>> No.30896502

>>30896157
Even if he could lift it, it would be very impractical to use.
At that size, anything you use will be absurdly slow.
Best to just go for a military pick, cuz at least that'll be slow and lethal.

>> No.30896539

>>30896323
Hardly a Paizo thing. 2e-3.5e

>> No.30896571

>>30896245
Yeah. Loved planescape so much.
>>30896323
It's an excuse for making things suck
>longbows are faster than crossbows because muh realism
If we're going realism, I want an arblast made out of solid steel with a draw weight of five thousand pounds. Those things are more lethal than most modern day pistols.

>> No.30896607

>>30896539
2e had spelljammer, which was about as unrealistic as you could get.
Also, as a 3aboo, I think realism in fantasy is a terrible excuse for bad balancing.

>> No.30896682

>>30896502

Interesting. I mean with a weapon like the 'buster sword' (which a guy who makes physical replicas of measures at 54 lbs.) it seems difficult, but a small guy wielding a 30 lb weapon seems to wield it alright. Not great in the sense of speed, but fuckall possible damage. It really is just a matter of getting that much metal in motion though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdo4yVm6KJo&list=PL94959BEA7932D30A

>> No.30896759

>>30896682
The damage from the sword wouldn't be as much as you'd think because of the large cutting edge. It might as well be a bludgeoning weapon, as most of its damage will come from crushing the victim between it and the ground.

>> No.30897074

>>30896043

But her appeal is that she's NOT the big-boobed badass!

>> No.30897428

Gonna join in and say Jade Regent. Stupid core concept, marketed with optional systems that suck.

>> No.30897725

>>30896087
They did. I think the errata for her and Ulf (tracker guy) is still up on the Paizo forums for free download.

>> No.30899311

>>30897428
There's no way it's worse than Second Darkness or Serpent's Skull. I don't think you're familiar with either.
It's also much more conceptually consistent than, say, Council of Thieves or Carrion Crown.

>> No.30899351

>>30897074

Why would you not want a big-boobed badass? Are you gay?

>> No.30900021

I reckon the results here are probably skewed a bit. The reason so many are saying kingmaker and jade regent is because they are not necessarily the worst, but are perhaps the most disappointing. They have instant appeal in their base concepts but are ruined by shitty execution, whereas other, perhaps worse APs were less interesting from the start, so they don't stick in the mind as much. People are also less likely to have even played the APs with less interesting hooks.

>> No.30900047

Just curious, but has anyone else here played Wrath of the Righteous? My group just hit book 4, and I'm wondering if people have been having the same experience as we have.

>> No.30900075

>>30900047
It's shit.

>> No.30900157

>>30900075

Why do you say that? I've been enjoying it so far, some interparty IC and OOC conflicts notwithstanding. Admittedly, we kinda broke the hell out of the adventure. I'll admit book 2 was kinda lame with all the downtime and book 1 could have moved faster, but we've had fun beating the shit out of things in book 3, and are about to go full Saint's Row in book 4...which according to our GM we weren't supposed to do, but he says it makes far more sense than what the book suggests.

>> No.30903734

Shalelu > Ameiko

>> No.30904686

>>30889854
I love Amiri. In art within APs and stuff she's always either wrecking dudes or about to wreck dudes.

>> No.30904851

Age of Worms. Nuff Sed.

>> No.30906617

>>30900021
True, but it also has a lot to do with how the GM runs an AP that makes it good or bad. I keep hearing how people enjoyed Curse of the Crimson Throne, despite it technically having some of the worst writing and the most reliance on railroading.

>> No.30907032

>>30895633
What a terribly done illustration.

>> No.30908526

>>30869503
Kingmaker a shit.

Kingdom ruling mechanics a tougher encounter than the god damn Dancing Lady.

I run sections of APs for small groups and the actual AP for my real group. I don't pull punches in the small groups to see how the writing is and see if I need to fix things. My small groups have never survived the Dancing Lady.

Strangely enough they've all had tremendous success against that little fucker in Rise of the Runelords which nearly destroyed my real group twice.

>> No.30908815

>>30906617
CotCR has easily the most interesting/compelling NPCs not in JR or RoW.

>> No.30908841

>>30906617
CoCT is not really that poorly written. It needs a lot of fleshing out in some areas, and a lot of DM skill to be able to really run a living city, but the actual plots are really interesting. The second book is very, very good, I just finished it.

I wish I could translate my experience into a second attempt so I know what needs to be fixed, but I don't really want to start it again. But I'd totally play through it for a great DM that could do the city better than I did.

>> No.30909834

>>30883979

One of my players triggered the Sorshen Clone trap. The look on his face as he went slack-jawed as he died was priceless...and then, a few minutes later, I started doing an impression of his PC's voice. When he figured out what happened, he went from slack jawed to pale. I couldn't stop laughing. Yeah, the entire thing has been dungeon crawling but goddamn it's been fun delving into dungeons so far. Can't wait for the finale.

>> No.30909915

>>30909834
>Sorshen Clone trap
that was great in my group. person that triggered it was a rogue that was pretty much trying to hide from her then ex guildmates in magnimar and had to stay covered head to toe basically non stop to avoid being picked up by either the underworld or legit guards, so when she got a new body she took her old one and collected the bounty on her own head

>> No.30910998
File: 112 KB, 557x1000, Amiri.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30910998

>>30904686
What about when she's just finished wrecking some dudes, and she's enjoying a moment of well-earned sitting?

>> No.30911076
File: 163 KB, 1680x940, Amiri & Sajan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30911076

>>30904686
I think it's hilarious that she's so often depicted in battles alongside the poor little monk boy. Must be embarrassing.

>> No.30911133

>>30909834
>One of my players triggered the Sorshen Clone trap.

What the fuck is the Sorshen Clone trap

>> No.30911282

>>30872857
There are two NAMED female NPC's. Generic bandits could be either. Other than Kressle, the named bandits are all male. The area where the AP takes place is heavy with the idea that women do 'traditional' women things, not soldiering, banditry, etc. The Kellid barbarians and civilized folk have that attitude... but I'm sure that just opens a different can of worms.

I'm not trying to defend the AP. I'm running it and made significant changes to it addressing many of the issues I've seen posted here and elsewhere. But having one woman (in the WHOLE AP) defend herself from rape and another vaguely threatened with it shouldn't be cited as an issue.

There are a couple of gay bandits clearly indicated, brothels (the PC's could build one or more!), clearly implied sexual relationships between <gasp> unmarried adults, barbarians kidnapping girls (and not touching them), etc. You can find issues wherever you want to look for them if you're so inclined... And this is not a truth confined to AP's...

>> No.30911289
File: 100 KB, 1680x1132, Opener.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30911289

>>30911076
>trying to trip a dragon

I guess Sajan's dump stat of choice was INT

>> No.30911331

>>30911282
>The area where the AP takes place is heavy with the idea that women do 'traditional' women things, not soldiering, banditry, etc.
The circumstances that lead to banditry generally preclude venues of "traditional things", for both genders.
So women that got into harsh circumstances may be bandits as well as men.
(Although there is a consequence of waving a pussy in front of a pussy-starved crowd of outlaws)

>The Kellid barbarians and civilized folk have that attitude... but I'm sure that just opens a different can of worms.
Yes, it is a can of worms.

>I'm not trying to defend the AP. I'm running it and made significant changes to it addressing many of the issues I've seen posted here and elsewhere. But having one woman (in the WHOLE AP) defend herself from rape and another vaguely threatened with it shouldn't be cited as an issue.
The issue is not SJW "how dare they propagate rape culture by including references to rape in there!"
The issue is that sprinkling rape around (see >>30876118 ) is the cliche of dreary writing.

>> No.30911532
File: 128 KB, 529x900, Sorshen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
30911532

>Sorshen

Rise of the Runelords best fap

>> No.30911708

>>30909834
Is the quality of the dungeons really that high? From what I've seen as of yet, paizo often remarkedly displays their non existant knowledge of the game quite a lot in their games.
Most encounters seem to be one "CR-appropiate" guy, which is bullshit because any half-optimized group will get wreck those encounters. Same for the "it's CR X, but with a big bunch of X-4 creatures!", which again, is no challenge for half optimized PCs.

>> No.30911725

>>30911289
>it is funny because it is true

>> No.30913573

>>30911282
>I'm running it and made significant changes to it addressing many of the issues I've seen posted here and elsewhere.
Post them please? Haven't found anything good except Dudemeister's changes on the net.

>> No.30914679

>>30911289
that doesn't look like a trip.
it looks like the monk broken the leg it was kicking.
looks more like sunder than trip

>> No.30914838

>>30914679
Which also doesn't work.

Also, allowing people to Sunder natural weapons sets a horrid precedent. An Unarmed Strike is a natural weapon, y'know.
>I Sunder the Monk

>> No.30914901

>>30914838
You'd have to sunder each part of his body, because he can make unarmed strike with evere piece of it.

>> No.30914906

>>30914838
>Monk breaks

>> No.30914924

>>30914838
Ouch, that'd be quite painful, because then he'd be broken, but still would have lost no HP.
So he could be at full HP but be unable to do anything (barring greater sunder).

Oh wait, that's just the usual monk.

>> No.30914990

>>30911133

In one of the rooms of the Lady's Light, the party can find a clone backup of Runelord Sorshen in a trapped sarcophagus. The trap was originally meant to kill whoever activated it, but age causes it to malfunction and instead, the person slain is transferred into the clone body.

King Xin freaks out if he sees "Sorshen" later in the adventure and it has plenty of implications if you end up running Rise of the Runelords, Waking Rune or Crimson Throne afterwards.

>> No.30915030

>>30914990
>and it has plenty of implications if you end up running Rise of the Runelords, Waking Rune or Crimson Throne afterwards.
>running more than one AP in the "same" golarion
How? I mean, quite often there goes so much shit down, you'd have to rewrite the other APs completely.
Plus at the end of each AP there is some uber evil released or awakend to let the campaign continue to lvl 20

>> No.30915060

>>30914901
While you can make an Unarmed Strike with any part of the body, I'm going to point towards staves and other two-ended weapons and tell you that his Unarmed Strike is still just one thing.

>>30914924
>Sunder
>You can attempt to sunder an item held or worn by your opponent in place of a melee attack. If you do not have the Improved Sunder feat, or a similar ability, attempting to sunder an item provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.

>If your attack is successful, you deal damage to the item normally. Damage that exceeds the object's Hardness is subtracted from its hit points. If an object has equal to or less than half its total hit points remaining, it gains the broken condition. If the damage you deal would reduce the object to less than 0 hit points, you can choose to destroy it. If you do not choose to destroy it, the object is left with only 1 hit point and the broken condition.


>Broken
>Items that have taken damage in excess of half their total hit points gain the broken condition, meaning they are less effective at their designated task. The broken condition has the following effects, depending upon the item.
> If the item is a weapon, any attacks made with the item suffer a –2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Such weapons only score a critical hit on a natural 20 and only deal ×2 damage on a confirmed critical hit.

So you can either debuff absolutely anyone or just outright kill them, I guess.

This doesn't work because you can only target objects with Sunder, but that's why I said that it's a bad idea to houserule and allow your players to Sunder dragonclaws.

>> No.30915103

>>30914838
Aren't there actual rules for targetting body parts in an attempt to cripple someone?

>> No.30915113

>>30915060
But you would just destroy the natural attack/unarmed strike in question, not the creature itself

>> No.30915173

>>30915030

Yeah, ShS already presumes that CotCT and RotRL have taken place, but I've known several GMs who've done this, and I'd say these three APs are much better overall if adapted into a coherent campaign. It definitely takes some work, but since on average about 2-3 books per Paizo AP are forgettable and can be dropped, it's not an insurmountable challenge and a lot more rewarding than any individual line if done well.

I've been making statblocks of the other runelords for the day I can run a 'real' Rise of the Runelords game. mfw all Paizo wants to write for lately are mummies and robots.

>> No.30915220

>>30915173
But if those two APs have taken place before Shattered Star, then it would mean that two lvl 15-20 groups are running around in Gorarion and I think at the end of CotCT some crazy ass rape dragon comes back to fuck up everyones day.
Why a group of lvl 1 guys then suddenly make any impact is beyond me.

>> No.30915231

>>30915173
wrath of the righteous has a runelord lich statted out and trapped in baphomet's maze

>> No.30915244

>>30877677

...are you talking about the rum, in Skull and Shackles? The rum isn't poisoned, it's just toxic, and everyone knows it is. I'm not sure what else you could be referring to. Also, anyone who actually plays the rum as-is is an idiot, because what the fuck, making a fort save for con damage *every night* is absurd.

>> No.30915294

>>30915244
>because what the fuck, making a fort save for con damage *every night* is absurd.
And here's the crux. This is obviously quite a bad idea to implement into a campaign, so why is it even there in the first place?

>> No.30915331

>>30915220
from city of locusts

remember, we at Paizo make no assumptions
about when most Adventure Paths, including this one,
begin in relationship to any others. Future Adventure Paths
and products published by us will continue to assume that
the Worldwound is still open, that Deskari and Areelu
are still plotting, and that the crusaders are still traveling
north to bolster Mendev's borders. The time may come
when we might decide to do a sequel of sorts to Wrath of
the Righteous ... but for now, that time is a long way off.


so unless it's stated flat out in ShS that the others have happened then you can officially assume they haven't

>> No.30915411

>>30914838
Unarmed Strikes aren't natural weapons in PF. They use their own rules now, which is why they had to errata the Amulet of Druid Attacks so much.
>>30914901
Unarmed Strikes can no longer be made with ANY part of your body, either.

>> No.30915435

>>30911708

Generally the encounters feel like they're level appropriate. They maybe having a little bit of an easier time though by now because I slotted in Seven Swords of Sin, and they're on a quest to retrieve and either awaken or seal the powers of each of the swords while also hunting for the Sihedron shards.

as far as I remember, most of the encounters that involve one guy are usually fair. The end boss of bok two is supposed to be stupidly overpowered unless you take steps to disprove her identity She's a demon that also thinks the Runelord Sorshen.

>>30915173
>>30915030

While not with the same group, I have run RofRL and CotCT. I was absolutely delighted when the Gray Maidens returned in ShS. It feels much more like a coherent campaign if it's run in that order.

>> No.30915449

>>30915220
Personally, I'd rewrite the events of ShS to overlap with RotRL and CotCT in order to focus on one party. Off the top of my head: investigating Ileosa's plans leads to the Lady's Light and the revelation of a much greater threat beneath Castle Korvosa. Ileosa's use of the Everdawn Pool disturbs Sorshen's sleep, and the success or failure of her ritual starts a chain reaction that stirs the other Runelords. Karzoug wakes up first and sets off the advanced plot of RotRL, and immediately knows he needs to find and kill Sorshen before she wakes up and clobbers him, bringing the action to Korvosa (rather than Sandpoint). The other Runelords start to waken as the action progresses, threatening to plunge Varisia into a massive war, so the PCs can choose to take them on individually or reconstruct the Sihedron to fight them. Doing so, of course, awakens King Xin, and things take off in all sorts of ways from there.

>>30915231
That's like the only reason I bought that book; it was otherwise a dreary distraction from fighting the Worldwound and Deskari, in my opinion.

>> No.30915450

>>30915244
>>30877677
The oil of taggit bits are backstory and as a result players are not allowed to take actions while you're explaining it.

>> No.30915472

>>30915331
It is indeed stated flat out that those two campaigns have already happened, having been carried out by different groups of adventurers.

>> No.30915475

>>30873019
>>30873044
Wasn't some of Kingmaker written by Ed Greenwood, of Forgotten Realms fame?

>> No.30915483

>>30915435
What's your groups system mastery like? Do they play optimized characters?
Are the encounters actually interesting or just beatsticks?

>> No.30915571

>>30911708
>Most encounters seem to be one "CR-appropiate" guy, which is bullshit because any half-optimized group will get wreck those encounters.
Are they using the recommended 25 point buy?

>> No.30915587

>>30915475
That would explain a lot.

>> No.30915599

>>30915113
>But you would just destroy the natural attack/unarmed strike in question, not the creature itself
That's what I'm saying - not only does the Natural Attack not have HP on its own, but even though you can make an Unarmed Strike with any part of your body you only have one Unarmed Strike.
You don't need someone to cast one of those Natural Attack boosting spells on you once for every fist, do you?

>> No.30915612

>>30915571
I thought the recommended pb for APs is 15?
I do know that PFS has 20.

>> No.30915614

>>30911708

By their own admission, Paizo doesn't design characters with optimized characters in mind. Their policy is to make the encounters accessible to the average group, and leave GMs to judge whether they need to adapt the challenge to their players.

>> No.30915645

>>30915614

*doesn't design encounters, my bad. I'm more willing to criticize Paizo for their limited awareness of their own game mechanics than some of the philosophy behind encounters.

>> No.30915737

>>30915612
Oh, I'm thinking in 3.5 still.
25 point buy in 3.5 is 15 point buy in PF.

>> No.30915803

>>30915483

My party is actually a pretty weird grab bag of characters, mainly cause I actually encouraged them to take things outside of Core/Advanced classes. One is a Malefactor (third party class based on debuffs), one is a Shadow Fade (Multiclass Archtype Rogue/Summoner), One is a Savant (Kobold Magazine #18, later updated in New Paths Compendium), and the last is a Cavailer (traded out for a MCA Monk/Paladin). IMO the encounters become a lot more interesting the further into the campaign you go. What should have been a standard fight between a squad of Gray Maidens and the party actually turned into an interesting roleplay opportunity - the Savant had been the player who tripped the Sorshen Clone trap, so she was able to bluff her way though the encounter, claiming that she was taking her newly gained prizes to her bed chambers and that no one was to disturb her.
Suspecting that she might be a fake, they asked if she had brought magic shields - the question is a trap, the maidens never asked Sorshen of anything of the sort. Our Savant continued to play Sorshen to a T, though, immediately dismissing the question and claiming that "No one asks anything of me, I never promised anything to someone so lowly." It was awesome.

>> No.30915842

>>30915737
Ah ok. Yeah, even with the shitty 15 pb you can easily crush most encounters, but >>30915614
pointed out that they make most encounters easy.


>>30915803
>IMO the encounters become a lot more interesting the further into the campaign you go.
So the first few books are mainly beatsticks and then when it starts with casters it gets harder?

>> No.30915857

>>30915472
>>30915331

Book 2 literally says that the Gray Maidens were banished after the queen was defeated by adventurers, and Book 6 also confirms that Karzoug is indeed dead after adventurers killed him as well. That's why it'd be really odd to run them out of order.

>> No.30917247

I know I'm late to the party, but which AP is the shortest to run? My friends and I are thinking of playing tabletop this weekend for a good 12 session, is there an AP that can be run in that amount of time? It'd probably be with 3-4 players.

>> No.30917375

>>30917247
Considering Adventure Paths, by definition, are sets of modules that are designed to take a party from levels 1-20 (well, 17ish), the answer would be no.

>> No.30917413

>>30917375
I think Council of Thieves ends around 13 or so, but it's also one of the worse made ones.

>> No.30917514

My group is doing rise of the runelords now, and it seems decently good. GM is kinda meh though.

>> No.30917747

>>30917514

I've found RotRL to be the most entertaining/least off-putting all around because it was written before Golarion was established as a setting, and so adheres to the cliched, but tested, design of "defeat awakened evil" heroic fantasy adventure. The kind of thing that D&D does best. Curse of the Crimson Throne, as well, to a large extent.

Later adventure paths became more high concept and either fell flat on their premise or couldn't justify themselves with good writing or design, depending on your perspective. Adventures benefit from neat hooks, but Paizo's T-shirt-style adventure theming can be heavily hit or miss (see: Legacy of Fire "1001 Golarion Nights", Skull & Shackles "HERE BE PIRATES" and Iron Gods "SCIENCE!"). Any of them have the potential to be good in the hands of a creative GM and supportive players, but Paizo doesn't always make it easy.

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