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27452442 No.27452442 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

New to roleplaying and not wanting to be That Girl. How many hoops do I need to hop to make a strong female character who isn't domineering or a Janeway?

>> No.27452466

>>27452442

Be Janeway imo.

>> No.27452482
File: 309 KB, 503x850, green_is_best.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452482

None.

This is now musclegirl thread.

>> No.27452483
File: 198 KB, 618x1000, b2a5c81d84e7aa63774f26c82824afde.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452483

>>27452466

Nobody. Likes. Janeway.

>> No.27452492

Depends on the group.

Some groups are shit and you are fucked from the beginning. Otherwise just learn the system and make something in line with the capability of the other players. Don't let them typecast you but work with everybody, it should be fine.

Good luck!

>> No.27452493

Just make a male character and give him tits.

>> No.27452494
File: 133 KB, 728x1070, lteppu_07_00_p.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452494

Teppuu manga. Look it up.

>> No.27452511

>>27452442
Make a male character, then add a "Fe."

Simple, but it works.The way our common media and popular-culture influenced mindsets work, if you start off at "female character" you get to a different place than if you start with "some dude." It's just easier to use it to our advantage than try and fight with it - Besides, if you right a backstory then swap all the genders before you're done, you tend to catch "That Guy"-ish things that you didn't realize you even did.

>> No.27452512
File: 124 KB, 1280x720, jormungand.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452512

>"hey, kid, wanna /ss/?"

>> No.27452517

>>27452442
Could always be the strong, spunky, friendly chick. The fembro.

>> No.27452524

>>27452483
Sorry to break it to you, but Janeway has fans.

>> No.27452533
File: 44 KB, 465x382, sassy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452533

>>27452442
Like this?

>> No.27452538
File: 30 KB, 300x320, delightful.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452538

>>27452442
>>27452466

>> No.27452562

>>27452524
So does G. W. Bush. It doesn't make him good character.

>> No.27452566

>>27452524

Janeway has one fan who is a legendary samefag across the entire internet. I am convinced.

>> No.27452574
File: 1.40 MB, 1415x2119, zombina.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452574

>> No.27452579

>>27452524
I wouldn't call my self a fan, but I thought she was good enough for the show. Inconsistently written in retrospect, yeah, but that's Star Trek for you.

I had waaaay more of a problem with Seven of Nine than Janeway.

>> No.27452583

Don't overcompensate. Your character is going to be someone special, and doesn't have to bellow orders or browbeat people to prove that. Don't be afraid to be assertive in your area of expertise, but defer to others in theirs.

Also, don't steal the spotlight. Let other people have their moments. It's a party, not a one-on-one. But, by the same token, you're entitled to yours too - don't be afraid to shine in your niche.

>> No.27452608

>>27452442
I liked Janeway when I was a child, then as I grew up I realized how inconsistently she was written. I still maintain Voyager is a good series, but at times the writers were clearly on Crystal Meth.

>> No.27452617

>>27452574
>fujoshi self insert zombie character
>can't tell if this is sincerely Euphoric, ironically stupid, sincere yet self-deprecating, or an outsider's parody
>I'll show it to my Fujoshi wife lol

>> No.27452633

>>27452617
I'd fuck that character

>> No.27452644

>>27452494
mah nigga.

>> No.27452649

>>27452633
That doesn't really tell us much since you'd fuck anything that wriggles.

>> No.27452658

>>27452562
I don't recall saying that, I was simply correcting a factually incorrect statement.

>> No.27452669

>>27452579
That's pretty depressing given Seven was one of the two best characters on the show.

>> No.27452681

>>27452494
For reference, Teppu is about the tall girl on the left, the quiet aloof type and not at all the hot-blooded shonen hero type. She naturally excels at everything physical she puts her hands to, and she hates it. She gets into women's MMA because it's the first time she actually has to work at something, and she loves it. The smaller girl is her hot-blooded-shonen-type rival, and Teppu wants to literally beat the smile off her face.

>> No.27452693
File: 59 KB, 666x718, 1206150001656.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452693

>>27452681
>tall girl on the right
Herp

>> No.27452732

Why don't you just make a character, than have it be female, rather than being female first and character second.

>> No.27452737

>>27452442
I'm of the school of thought that a strong character is strong regardless of gender. What you should do is make a GOOD character before you make a GOOD FEMALE character.

>> No.27452745

>>27452512
Mah nigger.

>> No.27452749

>>27452732
That doesn't even make sense, think about what you're saying
but I get what you mean, don't make the fact that she's female her main character trait

>> No.27452770

>>27452562
and no one likes /pol/ in here so GTFO.

>> No.27452776

>>27452749
>doesn't make sense
>understands the message completely

Okay.

>> No.27452783

>>27452737
That said, consider the nature of the setting in order to properly appreciate gender roles so you can make an appropriate character. You may even deal with the tropes involved regarding the setting's rules on gender. Play with them, not necessarily against them.

>> No.27452805

>>27452511
Best advice you can get.
If you go in there thinking "but it has to be a girl", you're not going to make an adventurer, you're not going to make a professional. Everything you do will twist shit by adding "but it has to scream out woman at you".

Like the majority of female action heroines in hollywood movies. If the character really WAS 'strong and independent', she wouldn't be needing to mention/explain/focus/bemoan her gender every other sentence.

She wouldn't need to act in ways that specifically stereotype [not prove, just 'image'] dumb shit like "she wins against guys, BUT SHE'S A GIRL". That doesn't make the character seem badass, that just makes her seem desperate. Like all those mooks the heroine in the scene took down were in the special olympics but dressed up like mercs or whatever. "Yeah, yeah, good job. You killed a bunch of retarded little kids in swat outfits. Real nice there. Aren't you a fucking badass."

Just make the character, and check the m/f box as an afterthought. The rest will follow.

>> No.27452806

>>27452681
I started that some time ago. Don't remember why I stopped.

>> No.27452809

>>27452649
Maybe a lot of things that wriggle but not anything. I wouldn't fuck any of your pets.

>> No.27452841

>>27452806
Because it is translated slower than snails?

>> No.27452852
File: 109 KB, 476x696, Cat_Head.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452852

>>27452809
Well, that's considerate of you.

>> No.27452858

>>27452805
Again, though, as an afterthought, see >>27452783. Your character shouldn't have to stand out because they rail against everything the setting understands about gender.
>Most women of prominence in this city are a priestess because of religious obligations?
>FUCK DAT IMMA MERC FUCK RELIGION YOU CAN'T HOLD ME DOWN
That's not cool.

>> No.27452859
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27452859

>>27452494
She's just batshit insane. Also, incredibly badass. Also hot.

>> No.27452863

>>27452852
>that doujin series
stop please

>> No.27452871

>>27452442
I'm unfamiliar with the term janeway. Care to enlighten me?

>> No.27452875

>>27452841
Probably.

>> No.27452890
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27452890

>>27452871

>> No.27452899
File: 319 KB, 600x849, Gavrill.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452899

>>27452859
If that is your thing ...

>>27452871
I assume you also have no idea who Kirk could be...

>> No.27452919
File: 149 KB, 500x281, sharktits.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27452919

>>27452859

>> No.27452924

>>27452852
What is that even from?

>> No.27452929

>>27452899
lel how do I Spock.
No, but I just kid of never got into Voyager, thus I lack a lasting impression of the characters.

>> No.27452940

>>27452871
Captain Janeway is the main character of Star Trek Voyager. She's argued to be the most controversial of the Star Trek captains, and not just because people argue her character is poorly written.

>> No.27452957

>>27452940
Thank you, but I don't suppose you'd care to tell me why she's so controversial?

>> No.27452964

>>27452957
If I knew, I'd tell you.

>> No.27452976

>>27452924
Cat-Head Imako, I believe. It's porn.

There was another H-manga by the same author with the same characters, that >>27452863 is probably referring to, where the MC ends up having delusions about that girl, his childhood friend, NTRing him in various ways as they start growing apart, before the last chapter reveals that none of it happened, and she's been saving herself for him.

But the oneshot that >>27452852 is much more vanilla.

>> No.27452994

>>27452899
As far as I'm concerned, Star Trek ended after TNG was over.

It's best to forget about the couple of shitty series that have happened since then, much like it's best to forget that Star Wars Episode One happened.

>> No.27452995

>>27452976
Yeah, the initial one is fine, the rest... fine for some people.

>> No.27453002
File: 20 KB, 182x217, Rance Laughs With Sharp Teeth.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453002

>>27452899
You got a problem with tall women?
>>27452919
pic related.

>> No.27453013

>>27452994
>it's best to forget that Star Wars Episode One happened
but muh pod racing

>> No.27453024

>>27452994
Hey fuck you buddy, DS9 was fun. Well, besides the Holodeck Episodes that DIDN'T involve James Bond.

>> No.27453026
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27453026

>>27452929
>>27452994
Actually I was just suspicious of someone attempting to reenact pic related...

>> No.27453040 [SPOILER] 
File: 249 KB, 900x900, noir2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453040

>>27452995
Yeah, I get what you mean...

>> No.27453045

>>27452995
I'm not sure why I actually read the whole thing, but I'm glad I stuck with it to the end.

>> No.27453057

>>27452442
>a strong female character who isn't domineering or a Janeway?
What trait is Janeway typify?

>> No.27453058

>>27453045
kinda sucked that I got to it while the last two chapters were still in moon only

>> No.27453086
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27453086

>>27452483

I kinda like Janeway.

Not as much as Picard or Kirk, but still.

>> No.27453101

Let's make you a character, shall we?

First, why don't we figure out what kind of character this will be. You said a strong character, so I'm thinking some kind of fighter. What kind of fighter will she be? Will she be honorable? Dishonorable? For now, let's go with a fairly pragmatic fighter.

Why is she pragmatic? You've got to explore your character's attitude and link it to her experiences. Was she born into poverty and had to be pragmatic for survival? Was she in the military? Perhaps she's a daughter of merchants who had no tolerance for bullshit. I'm going to go with the merchant aspect.

Now it's time to explore WHY she's out adventuring. Was her family killed by bandits and now she's out for revenge? Is she on a quest to acquire vast wealth? For this character, she will be adventuring to gain fame and by extension increase business opportunities for her family (because why buy from random ass Joe when you can buy from the family of a hero?).

Next we explore her childhood and likes and dislikes. We can likely get a good gauge of her childhood from the information we've came up with previously, but now we expand on it. For instance, the character I've been making grew up as the daughter of merchants. She's a fighter so she may have been a bit of a tomboy or possibly had some kind of military training. It depends on the culture you're going for. The main point of this is to figure out why their personality is like it is. Maybe she's afraid of swimming after almost drowning as a child. It could be that she loves fashion and always wanted to be a princess but was never able for one reason or another. It's up to you.

Finally it's time to explore her culture. Did she grow up in the elven forests and grow up xenophobic against all those not from the forest? Is she from a human village where she rebelled against the idea that women are just good for wives and homemakers? In this instance, I'll go with the idea that she was from a city-state in war.

Continued.

>> No.27453107
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27453107

>>27452493

>not taking away reason and accountability first

>> No.27453108
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27453108

>>27453057

>> No.27453128
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27453128

>>27452493
got it

>> No.27453146

>>27452483
Actually, she might be my second favorite Star Trek captain, though I can see why people would hate her. The key thing is whether you hold her character responsible for dramatic inconsistencies of behavior, or do you just say that it's bad writing? I say that since the other people on the ship aren't shocked by her mood swings and erratic actions, it's clear that the entire universe is inconsistent and not just her. So if you just ignore the extremes, you get the gist of who she is, and I kind of like her. And that's all it really takes to put her in the running for my second favorite captain. I'm not really that fond of most of the captains. They just don't do it for me.

>> No.27453176

>>27453108
Putting Janeway there because of that line seems a bit heavy. I mean she will do whatever she needs to to get her and her crew back home, but she isn't shitting on everyone along the way unless she needs to go keep moving forward.

Definitely Chaotic, probably not Evil.

Of course, if you're just talking about a single line spoken by them, sure.

>> No.27453187

>>27453101
I hit the character limit.


Anyway, back to it. Maybe this city-state had mandatory military service because they were often accosted by other nations wishing to take them over. You have to work with the culture of the area your character will be from.

Once you've done that, you can add or subtract what you need or want from your character so long as it makes sense for their past.

Together we have made a business minded, pragmatic fighter with an eye for fashion, a fear of water, and a generally happy childhood. That's not bad.
TL;DR, figure out why your character would be like they are.

>> No.27453194 [SPOILER] 
File: 47 KB, 332x363, waifu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453194

>>27452442
You need inspiration for a strong female character that isn't just a social justice powerhouse?

>> No.27453200

>>27452841
Well that's why I stopped it

>> No.27453233
File: 30 KB, 500x329, Now_this_is_podracing.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453233

>>27453013
This picture and the pod racing game were the only good things to come out of episode 1

>> No.27453238

>>27453146

An interesting dimension to Janeway is that her writing suffered from the same problems that OP wants to avoid. The writers knew they were portraying the first female captain lead for a Star Trek series and ended up pulling her in too many directions trying to satisfy expectations. She needed to be strong, but not a ballbuster. She needed to be feminine but not incapable and dependent. They wanted to emphasize her motherliness as captain but not compromise her ability to lead. They succeeded and failed at every single one depending on the episode, because they didn't really establish who she was in a definitive sense, only a vague notion of "female captain in tough situation".

That said, she did have some very good moments in the series despite the inconsistent writing.

>> No.27453261

>>27453176
Shit, half the time Janeway won't compromise on Star Fleet goody-goody principles even a little, even when it's necessary, realistically speaking. If we're rating her character on the whole, she's certainly not chaotic. Unless we hold her responsible for her mood changes, but again, I think that's erratic writing.

>> No.27453299

>>27453194
What's compelling about her?

>> No.27453312

>>27453238
Huh. So you think they specifically had trouble with her character? I just sort of figured that the captain was the one who ultimately decided what Voyager was going to do, and depending on the storyline, they needed this to be different things. If somebody else had been captain, THEY would've been all over the place. *Shrug* Maybe it's a combination of both things.

>> No.27453335

Did nobody notice that the OP said "not wanting to be That Girl"? That implies that the OP is female, which is extremely funny because all of the replies have been "Make a dude with tits".

Seriously though, just make a character that you think is strong and/or independent. The more you ham it up or point out "I'M A STRONG FEMALE", the more annoying and bullshit it gets.

>> No.27453357

>>27453299
Not him, but she's strong but human, which is to say: imperfect. Also, her character isn't all about being a girl, or being strong despite being a girl, or girl's take on whatever.

>> No.27453362
File: 13 KB, 250x204, 250px-Bbtits.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453362

>>27452493
>Just make a male character and give him tits.

>> No.27453368

>>27453299
She's strong (physically and emotionally) and independent, but at the same time also human. She doesn't back down from a fight, but isn't invincible by any means. She doesn't like taking orders, but at the same time her refusal to defer to the wisdom of others can and has gotten her into trouble. She wrestles with the responsibilities thrust on her, but also desires the love and companionship of others. TL;DR, Korra is a profoundly human and well-written character, unlike most female characters (which are either useless damsels, social justice paragons, or fema-nazi strawmen).

also she's slowly turning into Darth Vader, so if you're into dramatic alignment-changes

>> No.27453378

>>27453335
The character can be that girl even if the player is a dude, can it not?
We're adressing the character aspect. If OP is a girl and doesn't want to be That Girl in the gaming group, she needs advice and assistance from a different board entirely.

>> No.27453415

>>27453335
>Did nobody notice that the OP said "not wanting to be That Girl"? That implies that the OP is female, which is extremely funny because all of the replies have been "Make a dude with tits".
Yeah. I was noticing that too. Anyway, to address the OP's question: why is even an issue? Don't focus on her femininity. Don't rebel against her femininity. Don't worry about her femininity. Just play an adventurer.

>> No.27453422

It's kind of dependent on the system you're running. You want to build a competent character for the ruleset first before you start adding on personality traits. (my first character was a DnD wizard who I wanted to be sickly but savvy and personable, so I dumped Str and Con in favor of Wis and Cha. Fat lot of good HE was when the adventure started and he died to goddamned rats)

>>27452511
This is sage advice.

Take a character you think is likable, admirable, interesting, (e.g. Luna Lovegood. Elric of Melibone. Ellen Ripley. Mr. Spock.) Figure out what character traits are interesting about them (spacey, tormented, determined, calculating).

Then, apply them to the setting's you're running and extrapolate how those traits would work in the world (How would a universe like Shadowrun's affect Luna Lovegood? If Elric were in a game of Exalted, how would his gloomy, fatalistic outlook work?)

Then, when you run the character, try and display those traits. Don't assume that because a character is flawed that they can still be competent in their role

For instance Shadowrun Luna Lovegood could be a frighteningly competent Decker who breaks ICE like it's nothing and can make a security system kill everyone inside the building, but while she's working she sings songs to the pixies she that she thinks live inside her computer. She's shit as a party face, and the rest of the party NEVER let her pipe up while talking to the Johnson (Shadowrun speak for employer), but she does the job well.

Strong Female Character means Strong Character Who Is Female. And strong doesn't mean they shit lead and butcher armies (though they can). It mean's they're well-rounded and human, rather than a flat, one-note, and uninteresting.

>> No.27453469

>>27453312

Both answers are right, really. The actors from Voyager have made it very clear in interviews how all over the place writing was for their characters. Robert Beltran (Chakotay) in particular suffered from this - just look at how wildly his character changes across seasons. He could be portrayed as a wise Indian mystic or a humorless hardass officer or a rebellious Maquis even in different consecutive episodes. Who they were changed on the goals of the episode, indeed, so there are as many versions of the cast as writers, who did not coordinate with one another concerning the characters.

>> No.27453488

>>27453128
She was by far the Least Awful in that game.

>> No.27453496

Make it a Sleepy or Ky Sahra.
Those two are pretty awesome.

>> No.27453532

>>27453378

The term "That Guy" isn't a character term, but a player term. From that perspective it's safe to assume that "That Girl" is referring to a problematic female player. So saying "Make a dude with tits" seems pretty silly. It's like if you wanted to make a male character and I told you "Make a chick with a dick. No, not futa."

>> No.27453568
File: 30 KB, 563x313, Balalaika.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453568

Theres always this bitch.

>> No.27453591

>>27453532
I think OP is talking about the cultural trappings of being female. Trying to build a character out of the ideas who is a woman before she is a person, if that makes any sense.

The general consensus seems to be "worry about making an interesting person before you start worrying about shit like gender."

Not a bad way to approach character personality, really.

>> No.27453600
File: 423 KB, 1600x1200, Qui-Goncloseup.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453600

>>27453233
What did you say?

>> No.27453603

>>27453488
Let's not turn this into a CoC thread.

>> No.27453604

>>27453568
>bitch

Them's fightan' words.

>> No.27453610
File: 23 KB, 467x700, Molly.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453610

>>27452442
Just make a Molly Millions clone.

>> No.27453630

>>27453591

Fully agreed. I make a character's personality and backstory before I pick things like race and gender, because nothing is worse than being the 500th Dwarf that only cares about ale and mines.

>> No.27453634

>>27453600

I'm really tempted to whip out the Mr. Plinkett Review to explain why Qui-Gon was an atrocious character.

>> No.27453646
File: 24 KB, 450x254, 125097.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453646

>>27453568
Small time!

>> No.27453649

>>27453299
She's perfect and every time she fucks up she ends up being right all along, learning nothing from her fuck-ups

>> No.27453653

>>27453634
Yeah but he was good becuase Liam

>> No.27453655
File: 131 KB, 478x733, Nice Hollystone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453655

>>27453604
She was great as fuck, but she was still a bitch. And I mean that in the best possible way.

And if you want a strong female character who isnt gonna point a gun at yo dick, you can take the other burnwaifu for inspiration. She is also the leader of a gang and shit, too, though she has a much friendlier relationship with the local shota.

>> No.27453662

If I were a girl I would minmax some OP character and make fun of everyone else when they fail. 'You got beat by a grrl' shenanigans.
But if I were a girl I would probably be too stupid to pull it off

>> No.27453678
File: 153 KB, 500x281, Gun slut.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453678

>>27453646
Just about any female character in Black Lagoon would work.

Also this slut from Speedgrapher, though she is sociopathically codependent and cant get off without shoving a gun in someones face.

>> No.27453687

>>27453655
I thought she was second-in-command, with her boyfriend being the leader?

>> No.27453693
File: 1.48 MB, 300x166, 1367282624159.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453693

>>27452442
>wanting to be That Girl
>That Girl

Kid, you already done fucked up.

>> No.27453708

>>27453312
This kind of ties in with the Spock syndrome, where every other episode has Spock confronting his emotions. Normally, you'd think that would make somebody an emotional bitch, but it's clear that doesn't fit in with his character. It's just that the writers want to focus on the particular conflict between reason and emotion to create an interesting story, and so half the plots about the mostly-emotionless character end up being about his emotions.

>> No.27453710

>>27453687
He seemed to be more of a ceremonial leader. She wore the pants in their relationship 90% of the time and did most of the planning and ordering around.

>> No.27453727
File: 94 KB, 1280x720, jormungand-01-koko-smile-awesome-charming.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453727

Put snipers on the roofs and start acting like a cat.
Cats are psychopathic murderers toying with their prey.

>> No.27453739

>>27452770
I actually /pol/, perhaps you are too quick to just go and jump to conclusions?

>> No.27453749
File: 383 KB, 900x1600, 1227589703230.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453749

Generally, you should make a strong character, and gender shouldn't be an issue unless it's legitimately relevant to a situation at hand or the overall setting.

An example of what I think is a strong female character is Vanessa from the King of Fighters series.
>mercenary special agent generally employed by the good guys to root out intelligence
>generally credited as leader of the Agents Team
>ace boxer
>noted for her relative age and experience (she's the oldest woman on the KoF roster)
>still plenty attractive
>drinks beer and loves catalogue shopping
>fun-loving and happy
>believes in living life to the fullest
>still ultimately a professional
>values her comrades
>widow (husband died on the job)
>single mother to a daughter that she loves to death

Vanessa is, in my opinion, a strong character who just so happens to be feminine, especially in regards to her personal life. She's experienced and potent, and her gendre scarcely, if ever, comes up as an issue. In fact, King of Fighters tends to poke fun at her age more than her gender.

>> No.27453755

I make lots of female npc's and villains in my campaigns. One of the guys in my group ended up marrying one of them, I don't know if it was because I did a good job or if he was just a weirdo. I invoke a lot of different things but my favorite character was a thief guildmaster who treated all the denizens like her children and would stop at absolutely nothing to protect them, even though she was harsh in discipline.

>> No.27453768

>>27453630
I think the 'only cares about' think is important there. If ale and mines are a key part of all your world's dwarvish cultures, they it's kind of dissonant to run the one dwarf in existance who is a teetotaler and hates being underground. But when a PC runs a character who is just Drunk Subterranean Scotsman without anything else to note.

For some games, like a good ol' fashioned dungeon crawl, not having a backstory ot personality traits is fine - fun, even. but when that's the only way you can play any RPG ever: that's when it becomes dull

>> No.27453775

>>27453469
>Chakotay
Now there was a terrible character. Not only was he all over the place, but I think I hated each and every place he went.

>> No.27453794
File: 198 KB, 600x800, 2de86568ded50766bd97bbbc3aa0954a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453794

Though most the folk here are going to be going 'omg just make a male character and add tits', if you're up to snuff as a writer, you can totally create a good character with the onset that 'she will be female'.

Just come up with a backstory that works, have her mesh with her backstory, keep her backstory believable, and you'll be fine.

I mean, hot damn, next thing you know people will say you should just play Bretonnian women as if they're men or something. Consider how your character's gender played into his or her upbringing. Consider his/her parents. Consider everything.

Just don't make a character who's 'just a girl'. It's really dumb. Put more thought into it than that.

>> No.27453798

>>27453749
Sorry, what were you saying? I was busy looking at her tits.

>> No.27453805

>>27453768
This is important, extending beyond the issue of gender. Don't be contrarian for no fucking reason.

>> No.27453859

>>27453794
This has been expressed before. A good writer creates a character independent of gender. A really good writer creates a character where gender is still relevant but is not thrust forward as the character's only notable trait, a character written as believable within the frame of a female in the setting.

>> No.27453899

>>27453693
Can you read?

>> No.27453907
File: 94 KB, 560x560, vanessa-badass-falcoon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453907

>>27453798
Understandable, but that doesn't change the issue.

>> No.27453914

>>27453727
>Cats are psychopathic murderers toying with their prey.
So you are going to be that kind of faggot, then.


Honestly the best way to do this is just be your character and make them female. Have it be part of a list of traits, but not totally nonexistent or the sole defining trait.
And don't make some stupid domsniper gets-off-to-killing-people cunt.
Those are just as terrible as any other obnoxious character, but in their own special way.

>> No.27453924

>>27453899

Yes. Read my post again.

>> No.27453935

>>27453805
Being contrarian CAN work, but one needs to be careful.

Elric of Melibone is a good example - his studies and history and thoughtful disposition make him the antithesis of a Melibonean noble, and he is an interesting, fun character to read about (and most likely play)

However, remember to try and fit into the theme of the game. If your game is all about sea-faring and you want to run a bookish scholar who has no interest in being a seafarer, then the character (at every turn) resists the willingness to go to sea, then you're being un-fun to the rest of the group. You can still have that scholar character in some way, but at least be prepared to develop in a way which is sea-relevant (say, taking a knowledge specialty on ship-building and repair)

>> No.27453949

Bayonetta.

Go ahead and try to prove me wrong.

>> No.27453950

>>27453899
I think it's an insult on your gender. Not sure.

>> No.27453968

>>27453949
You gotta elaborate for people who aren't familiar with the character, chief.

>> No.27453976

>>27453924
>>27453950
I'm a dude, and OP said they *don't* want to be That Girl. That other post didn't seem to get that.

>> No.27453981

Look at the female characters from Game of Thrones, one of the few shows that do powerful, believable women without making them "STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMYN WHO DON'T NEED NO MAN!!!" or retarded maniacs (like in most other shows, such as Lost. GOD Kate and Ana Lucia are the biggest bitches...)

>> No.27453990

>>27452994
Sounds like you're a retard because DS9 is fan-fucking-tastic.

>> No.27453993
File: 41 KB, 465x537, !.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27453993

>>27453949
Oh jesus fuck no

>> No.27454031

>>27453981
You didn't read the most recent book, did you.
Cersei and Danerys both dive headfirst into the deep end of the "make their readers want to call them derogatory female names" pool and hit their head on the bottom.

>> No.27454076
File: 1.75 MB, 1920x1200, Bayonetta.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27454076

>>27453968
The sexiest single mother ever.

>> No.27454099

>>27453914
What is that even supposed to mean?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzP8hm16pLY

>> No.27454112

>>27454076
Bayonetta isn't a mother.

>> No.27454120

>>27453990
Agreed, sir

>> No.27454129
File: 52 KB, 700x1024, 1214963592725.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27454129

>>27454076
?

>> No.27454137

>>27454031
You haven't been reading the other books, then?
Cersei started digging into the bedrock a while ago, you know?

>> No.27454160
File: 107 KB, 894x894, waifueyes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27454160

>>27452533

The one time I played a sassy black woman was the most glorious moment of my roleplaying career.

Nobody hunts vampires like Taniqua Cinnabon Janet Brown. Nobody MMM-MMMs away Majesty like Taniqua Cinnabon Janet Brown. She's a strong, independent black woman who don't need no faggoty Edward Cullen.

Also she know how vampires replaced little Michael. Ain't no way he just turned white all the sudden.

>> No.27454163

>>27454112
Technically adopting Yourself From The Past counts.

>> No.27454173

>>27454099
It means exactly what he says. "Psychopathic killer" without any justification behind it is an extraordinarily weak character, male or female. "Psychopathic killer who kills to get his/her rocks off" isn't much better, if at all, and it feels especially hamfisted on a female.
>inb4 Joker

>> No.27454180

>>27454031
By this point all of the female characters have fallen into a moral black hole, except maybe Brienne. To be fair, none of the males are much better.

>> No.27454181

>>27454076
Bayo isn't a mom, what are you on about?

>> No.27454182

>>27454129
Those proportions, what the fuck.

>> No.27454184

>>27454129
MY GOD! Who drew Rule63 of Stretch Armstrong?

>> No.27454209
File: 63 KB, 400x1100, 1217574207111.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27454209

>>27454182
>>27454184
So it's not just me who thought that. Here's a better picture.

>> No.27454224

>>27454209
Yes, much better. Thank you.

>> No.27454240

>>27454209
MY GOD! Suspenders with THAT shirt? Miss, the 1940s called, they say you can keep their fashion sense. they don't want it.

>> No.27454242

>>27454180
Sansa and Arya do have some morals to them as of now.
And the bog devil girl was never particularly challenged in that regard, either.

>> No.27454252
File: 9 KB, 150x189, 150px-Pants.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27454252

>>27454160
So did she only hunt Blackulas, or did she she sometimes dabble in Caucasian vampires?

>> No.27454274

>>27454137
Yeah, but honestly I didn't fault her for any of the stuff she did for power or to protect her children. She was a conniving bitch, but a smart one. I could respect that.

But then she did the stupid fucking naked walk thing and she's just terrible.

>> No.27454276

>>27453739

/pol/iticians are like the undocumented illegals of /tg/. Draw your own conclusions.

>> No.27454403

>>27454274
So the lesbo borderline-rape, alcoholism, incest (with Lancel), cuckoldry, sabotage of national politics, promotion of incompetents and traitors (one of which turned pirate with her flag ship), persecution of innocents and rearmament of the Faith are a-okay?

>> No.27454449
File: 42 KB, 121x149, th_vanessa-xi-jacket.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27454449

>>27454240
She wears a jacket, for what it's worth. And it works, doesn't it?

>> No.27454460

>>27452957
>>27452964

Basically, they three great female characters; a motherly, protective figure who will go to any lengths to protect her crew, a wide-eyed, inexperienced, scientist-captain whose curiosity is infectious, and a pragmatic, tough-as-nails, battle-hardened survivor who can make the tough choices, even if it means leaving people behind; and the writing wasn't consistent or good enough to make them work together.

Oh, and when Seven showed up, she got ersatz mother to an ersatz teenage girl thrown into the mix.

>> No.27455093
File: 143 KB, 461x379, Janeway Eye-Roll.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27455093

>>27452957
Voyager more or less failed. I mean, it was somewhat entertaining, but it certainly wasn't compelling. It was horribly inconsistent, rather unambitious, and generally poorly executed. Janeway, as the captain, is sort of the figurehead for Voyager's failures. And because the writers didn't collaborate very well, and each episode could have a drastically different tone, Janeway, who ultimately made the decisions, came off as mentally unstable as she vacillated from one extreme to the other between episodes. On top of this, Janeway isn't an obvious crowd-pleaser. She's not a spunky and/or sexy young female captain. She doesn't have an action/adventure vitality to her. She isn't a badass. She's got a bit of older mom / younger grandmother vibe going on (I think she was only 40 when the series started, but a bit of a raspy voice and an old-fashioned hairstyle coupled with her demeanor made her seem older). Basically, you have a more ambitious character who demands a higher caliber of writing to pull off well, and that was sadly lacking.

>> No.27455177
File: 181 KB, 654x1015, 1346983275604.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27455177

Another option.

>> No.27455459

>"make a male character and slap tits on it"

I hate this piece of advice. The vast majority of women do not think in the same way as men. What you're creating is a MtF post-op transexual, not a woman.

>> No.27455722

>>27455459
This is only true if the cultural context and physical capabilites play massively into it.
Which cannot be expected to be a given for any fantasy setting.

If you cut out the cultural lense and the differences directly linked to procreational behavior, you gain very similar thought patterns, especially once it's do or die.

Since adventuring is seldomly done by individuals who are much bound by conventions and societies strictures, but more often than not in mortal danger, you can safely assume most concepts work as male and female versions.
Cut out high-strength physical concepts and you can even call them half-way realistic.

In the end you may be right that people think in different modes. But in roleplaying that is irrelevant so long as the outcome of the thought process is the same.

>> No.27455863

>>27455722
This. There's probably a much bigger difference between you and a murder hobo from a Medieval world filled with magic and monsters, than between you and the girls you know. Seeing as people seldom obsess over getting the right level of PTSD for their kill-billies, I don't think we have to obsess over gender differences.

>> No.27455869

>>27452442
Make them a character first and a girl second. Add femininity lightly, and don't try too hard to be badass.

>> No.27455917

>>27452574
>zombie fujoshi

I...I think I have a new fetish.

>> No.27455951

>>27455093
You know what would have been awesome? If they had ditched the traditional Star Trek status quo at the end of the episode and made the story one long narrative of a starship's journey home. So battle damage isn't completely fixed, systems fail, resources run low, etc. The crew would have to barter for alternatives and replace systems with alien ones as failing replicators can't keep up with demand. Power has to be rationed, maybe even see their clothes get worn and even patched up over time.

With this they could have explored the psychological factors. How rooted is the starfleet dogma in the crew, when life isn't all peaches and cream day in and day out, when your friends and family are not a sub-space call away and you're all alone in alien space with no safety net and no clear indication you'll ever get home. What about all the civilians and non-starfleet personnel? Do we see factions form, mutiny, etc.?

>> No.27456008

>>27453368
And /co/ hates her for that.

Nobody actually wants well-written, human characters. They just want the illusion of such.

>> No.27456092

>>27455951
Yeah, that was one of the biggest disappointments. They are put in this desperate situation, lost on the other side of the galaxy with no way to supply themselves and nobody they know to help them. They are crewed by the people from two different ships that had just been fighting each other. So what do they do? They all put on the same uniform, act like one big happy family, refuse to compromise their high-minded principles, and though they constantly make references to needing supplies, they hardly ever seem to be lacking what they need or act like they're in a desperate situation. Their shuttles constantly get destroyed and they magically have new ones the next episodes. They fire many times their allotment of torpedoes. Oh, and they construct a new and better shuttle craft using, one would assume, space magic. I mean, it's Star Trek, so I wasn't expecting grimdark or Battlestar Galactica-level grittiness, but by making light of the difficulties they should've been having, they seriously undermined the integrity of the show.

>> No.27456273

>>27456008
I think it's more people say she's unlikable, especially compared to the previous Avatar.

>> No.27456298

>>27453993

Actually, I hear female gamers consider her empowering. Ridiculously sex-negative landwhale feministas aren't representative of normal female nerds.

Aside from the landwhale part.

And honestly, guys, we're no better. Why don't we all resolve to start lifting?

>> No.27456347

>>27456298

Most feministic men think that anything sexy = sexist. No one even knows what a strong female character even means.
Hint: It's any female that's actually a realistic person.

>> No.27456420

>>27456347
Remember everyone flipping their shit over Dragon Crown's Sorceress?

Even though people pointed out the company has a trend of making their necromancers/"life"-based casters very full and developed as a callout to the image of a fertility goddess?

>> No.27456460

>>27454252

A woman gotta do what a woman gotta do.

>> No.27456466

>>27456420

That's kotaku, it's the same shit, they think sex=sexist. Absolutely no clue what feminism is actually about. Works for women too who just can't get the concept of a female character that hot and powerful.

>> No.27456494

>>27454031

Really? What did Dany do, get angry at one character that a lot of people liked? Because aside from throwing out Mormont, Dany's problem is the same problem the US has in the Middle East, that they have a different culture and resist ours, frequently in a barbaric manner.

Cersei has always been a crazy, incompetent sack of tits being used as a pawn by Varys to fuck things up so badly that the Targaryens can come back.

>> No.27457647

All you have to do is be useful, voice your opinion when something has to give, and don't try to quote the TF2 heavy in a female voice.

>> No.27458029

>>27456008
Korra's characterization in itself is okay, but I wouldn't call LoK well-written as a series. The original Avatar wasn't so hot in that regard either, but it devoted more time to world-building, which in my opinion is the real strength of the franchise.

>> No.27458300

>>27456273

A twelve-to-fourteen-year-old pacifist who was trained by Monks is inherently going to be less bitchy than a girl three to four years older.

>> No.27458328

>>27458029

Pro Bending is amazing though, no matter how you look at it.

>> No.27459413

>>27453362
Exactly, this is the best character ever made

>> No.27460570

>>27452442
Just make a strong character that happens to be female

It is honestly that easy, build the person first then add oh yeah she has tits

>> No.27460766

Also OP, a little humor could go a long way to help your character meld with the party better. Not Sex based, just a simple joke or two, or a humorous observation.

>> No.27462402

>>27452442
>female character
Why not just make male character?

>> No.27462649

>>27453233
That's not true. The movie had an excellent soundtrack.

>> No.27463246

>>27452442
HOW NOT TO BE THAT GUY/GIRL IN 3 EASY STEPS

1. HYGIENE AND SOCIAL
Don't be dirty/smelly and don't be a creep. Talk how everyone talks, walk how everyone walks, don't be rude or brash to the other players or people living in the house you play at. Be kind and courteous.
Wash your teeth and check for bad breath.

If it's your first time, bring a few packs of chips or snacks, and one soda. OR talk to them, see what they do, how they eat/drink during game time, and plan accordingly. Don't forget snacks and mooch off others.

2. RESPECT FOR OTHERS
Be empathic, think about the feelings of other people in your surroundings.
Don't question/pester/rulelawyer the DM in front of his players!
This angers most DMs.
Do it after the game.

Don't insult/pester other players. Don't be a dick to anyone in the house you play in. Don't yell or blast music, don't make a mess (If you do make a mess, offer to clean it up! Don't let a mess go uncleaned! It might be forgotten there and the houseowner might get ants or mold or whatever (personal experience). People won't get angry with you, most of the time, so report a mess right away.)

WHICHEVER YOU DO NOT WANT DONE TO YOU, DO NOT DO UNTO OTHERS!

3. MOST IMPORTANT
PARTY COMPOSITION & GAME FUN

This is the most important thing. FIND A GROUP THAT SUITS YOUR TASTES.
If you game with a group you hate, or a system you dislike, or a game you hate, you will have a shit time.
So, leave.
Don't stay in a Furry game and ruin their fun. You might think you're the hottest shit, but you're a That Guy to them.
Don't come to a Maid RPG game with an Imperial Guardsman character sheet (although that does sound cool. Check with them first).

You must find people you like, games you like and systems you like.
If some dudes are playing Mouse Guard, you fucking love Mouse Guard, but the dudes are utter shit and bad players, skip the game.
Never play with people you hate.

>> No.27463370

>>27453775

The funniest thing was he and the actor playing Janeway apparently fucking hated one another. They could barely stand being in the same room as one another. But those two characters were the closest on the show. so every time they have any kind of heartfelt moment, you can watch knowing in the back of your mind both are cringing internally.

Chakotay was utterly ridiculous though. Its like six centures in the future. Earth is a collectivist utopia where half the population are scientists. So of course, somehow a non-specified religion thats dying out even now has made it intact.


Funny how religion is routinely mocked on star trek and atheism is basically the only way, but apparently Chakotay got to a command position despite holding beliefs in an imaginary friend which is going to clash intensely with the logical nature of his command structure. itd be like if an american aircraft carrier had an openly wiccan first mate who likes to offer remedies to people at random.

But Chakotay gets a free ride basically because people still apparently have white mans guilt and wont take their time out to call him a fucking madman.

Yes Chakotay. I did see your animal guide. he was playing with some of the power couplings in Jefferies tube 17B. Go find him you mad bastard.

>> No.27464583

>>27463370

You know that Chakotay left Star Trek and was a Maquis right?

>> No.27464594

>>27464583

Err the federation*

>> No.27467186

>>27463370

What the hell happened to make them hate each other? Did one of them immolate the other's mother and piss on the ashes?

>> No.27467291

>>27453368
I just don't like the way she's treated, I think the Avatar shouldn't have to rely on the Avatar state or their grotesque levels of bending power to win. Aang didn't put up with that horse shit.

>> No.27467312
File: 458 KB, 760x1140, 29e2edd8c94a880079793d99350bda22.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27467312

Prior to Other M.

>> No.27467323

>>27453368
>At which point I realise I've been watching a tween fantasy show.

Fuck. I'll go back to watching One Piece. At least the characters in there don't waaaaagh every 10 minues.

>> No.27467331
File: 209 KB, 300x581, Blackbat.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27467331

Barring editorial bullshit.

>> No.27467371

>>27463370

>Religion is routinely mocked
I don't think I recall a situation like that.

Closest would be when a confidence trickster in TNG came to an alien world posing as their returning demon queen.

Vulcans for instance have their religion and are fairly unmolested for it, even though Tuvok for one said that he's "having some doubts"

>> No.27467398
File: 89 KB, 1024x707, guardian_of_the_sacred_spirit2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27467398

All the fucking time.

>> No.27467408
File: 127 KB, 895x893, fire_ball_by_xxfenrierxx-d3ah18i.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27467408

>>27452442

http://exploringbelievability.blogspot.hk/2012/04/how-to-write-empowering-female.html

This.

>> No.27467452
File: 1.00 MB, 2000x2845, SVC_2nd_Sheet002b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27467452

>> No.27467469

>>27467408
>http://exploringbelievability.blogspot.hk/2012/04/how-to-write-empowering-female.html

tl;dr write her like a dude.

Can't believe he took an entire page of poorly-written drivel to drive that point.

>> No.27467597

>>27467469
Seconded.
I think I spent longer than I actually spent reading just wondering, post reading, if I had missed something with more depth, or a part where something new was brought to the table.

But no.

Writer her like you would any (male) character.
And I concur.

>> No.27467628

>>27467597
Brevity is the soul of wit. Something that's often misunderstood by poor writers.

>> No.27467682

>>27467398
>Balsa

My fucking nigger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdKiPOkh0K8

>> No.27467692

Write her as a strong, capable female who isn't domineering or a sociopath.

>> No.27467743

>>27467597
Writing her like a male is a decent angle, but it's not fully encompassing of what should be done. Writing her as a character is much better and allows for versatility. A character that still acknowledges their gender in situations where it's relevant is best.

>> No.27467783

>>27467743
>thatsthepoint.jpg

>> No.27467820

>>27467692
For some reason, a bunch of people get in their mind that the only way to take a woman seriously (especially in a world of men) is if they're some degree of psychotic -- especially murderous -- yet still highly capable and able to kill someone at the drop of a hat.

The tryhard's school of character strength and power:
>How fast can my character kill this guy, and with how little effort?

>> No.27467845
File: 35 KB, 450x240, TheSecretofNIMHscreen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
27467845

I read that the problem people have with writers writing "strong female characters" as "men with tits" is that it implies femininity to be weak.

So I guess that a strong female will have to show that traits commonly considered feminine such as sensitivity, empathy and gentleness can be a source of strength. Probably the easiest way is to write her as a mother. Some of my favorite fictional female characters are mothers.

And of course, traits considered feminine vary across cultures, so... I dunno.

>> No.27467861

>>27467820
I know.

Ironically, I find most people relate better to the men I write when I write them in the same way. Or maybe it's just the women who enjoy reading about those men more. Which I find rather creepy.

>> No.27467865

>>27467845
This is all true, and why the point is reiterated that a strong character shouldn't necessarily be divorced from their gender.

>> No.27467884

>>27467861
Wait, write in what way?

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