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[ERROR] No.27311968 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Do you ever play feminine characters, /tg/?

Not just a female/trap/androgynys character but one that is also feminine in behavior.

For example, butch burn-the-heretics paladin woman is not feminine, but kind-hearted soft prirestess girl is.

I ask because a lot of people I met who crossplay are acting very male with their characters, and from what I read on here it seems somewhat common.

anyway let's talk

>> No.27312010

It depends greatly on your definition of feminine.

>> No.27312031

>>27312010

It really doesn't, though. There is an actual definition of the word.

>> No.27312032

I played a healy priest elf, does that count?

>> No.27312039

>>27311968
> butch burn-the-heretics paladin woman is not feminine, but kind-hearted soft prirestess girl is.

Your superficiality makes me facepalm. Airs and graces is not a feminine behaviour.

>> No.27312050

>>27312039

See >>27312031. It is, in fact, literally the definition of feminine behavior.

>> No.27312054

>>27312031
>physical characteristics
>opinions

>> No.27312063

>>27312054

>Greentext
>No really if I repeat muh feels and that it's all opinions enough that means word definitions can be twisted to whatever I want them to mean!

>>>/lgbt/

>> No.27312069

>>27312050
Basing your character on stereotypes is the best way to become a "that guy".

>> No.27312070

>>27312031
>having qualities stereotypical of the female gender
>stereotypical

Well there you go.

>> No.27312071

>>27312010
This. You can still maintain femininity whilst burning the blasphemers. Though one may have to act in a martial and therefore traditionally masculine manner if you're actively fighting things, outside of that narrow window a character can have their own personality which may be whatever archetype you fancy.

Concepts of gender do not necessarily have to be mutually exclusive.

Though to answer your question OP, yes, feminine character are something I play, simply because I find the range of emotions that can be expressed from that standpoint more diverse and therefore more interesting to play. At least for me.

>> No.27312075

>has /tg/ ever pretended to be a girl

How's your first day on the board, OP?

>> No.27312080

>>27312069

Funny, and here I thought basing a character on how much of a unique special snowflake you are was in fact the best way to become a "that guy."

>> No.27312085

>>27311968
I literally play females in online RP for the very reason that I can play out my feminine (per the definition) personality without getting the issues that a male character gets for doing just that.

>> No.27312087

>>27312063
You really have no real life experience and you think that dictionary will explain you in synonyms the full meaning literally?
Are you about 14 or smth?

>> No.27312089

>>27312075

>not reading the OP

>> No.27312099

>>27312087

Why don't you go ahead and give us the "real" definition of words since our damn dirty dictionaries are so passe then, friend?

>> No.27312101

>>27312070
Seeing as we're on 4chan, that would preclude "caring" and "nurturing" being feminine qualities.

>> No.27312108

>>27311968

Occasionally?

Using that definition, one of my current characters qualifies more than not, though male, and one of my female characters used to qualify.

>> No.27312112

no argument over semantics, please. everyone's definition is different

just discuss the topic

>> No.27312121

>>27312112
Hear hear.
I never play feminine or even female characters. I just don't feel I could do it justice.

>> No.27312129

>>27312089
Butch burn-the-heretics paladin women are a minority among /tg/'s battle princess paladin women. They always have been. The only times anyone posts about playing non-feminine women on /tg/ are when they're going "Look at me guys! I played a girl character that wasn't girly! Aren't I just an awesome roleplayer? Subverting those stereotypes and all."

>> No.27312134

>>27312112
>no argument over semantics, please. everyone's definition is different

>The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems. Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum. They stay inside their little ponds, leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large. The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh. No one is invalidated, but nobody is right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKl6WjfDqYA

>> No.27312147

>>27312099
picrelated
> Grammar of or denoting a gender of nouns and adjectives, conventionally regarded as female.

>For example, butch burn-the-heretics paladin woman is not feminine, but kind-hearted soft prirestess girl is.
And it shows, how much your understanding of nouns and adjectives, conventionally regarded as female is poor and gullible.
If you gonna make such a female character it will be absolutely banal shit.

>> No.27312155

>>27312147
Shit, that everyone hates in games.

>> No.27312163

Succubi count?

>> No.27312168

Currently playing a female mage, always bitching about long journeys, buying a lot of cosmetics stuff, and LITERALLY shocking every person who disagree with me (i'm playing her batshit insane, one time i bitched so much about not wanting to enter a swamp our fighter had to carry me).

My group is still cool with the char, mainly because she's cool when not pissed off, and also because she crafted almost all the equipment they are wearing.

>> No.27312183

>>27311968
Yes, I actually have.
Was a barbarian/synthesist.
She was a noble woman who had some training in magic.
When wounded or enraged she used the synthesist form and having no memory of it.

>> No.27312184

>>27312163

>succubi cuts hair, starts dressing in overalls and becomes a greasemonkey mechanic

>> No.27312188

>>27312134
"Femininity" is a social construct.

Until we can get a healthy mono-culture going that defies and unmakes sub-cultures before they can produce their own constructs, the best we can do is "feminine according to ______".

Which OP provided, so that solves that, and talk of what "truly" constitutes "femininity" and whether any particular definition is useful is tangential to the topic.

According to OP's definition, do you play feminine characters?

>> No.27312191

>>27312168
>being feminine means buying cosmetics and being a bitch, right?
Worst shit ever.
Would throw that bitch into the swamp.

>> No.27312200

>>27312188

Yeah, I like to play masculine female characters and feminine male characters. I like the difference in reactions that switching the gender roles provoke in players and DMs.

Of course, I also spend my free time imagining them grinding against each other like a little boy smashing barbie dolls together. We're on /tg/, after all.

>> No.27312204

>>27312191
That's the point, i wanted to playher as annoying and cliche as possible.

>> No.27312207

>>27312200

Oh it's YOU again.

>> No.27312211

>>27311968
Its hard not to be "male" in your characters, because male is traditionally powerful, aggressive, dominant and ambitious. A "feminine" character would be passive, submissive and wouldn't do jack shit

>> No.27312218

>>27312207

I've never posted about this on /tg/ before, but I'm sure there's many like me around.

>> No.27312235 [DELETED] 

>>27312188
>"Femininity" is a social construct. Until we can get a healthy mono-culture going that defies and unmakes sub-cultures before they can produce their own construct

>>>/lgbt/
>>>/tumblr/
>>>/reddit/
>>>/twitter/
>>>/somethingawful/
>>>/SRS/
>>>/g/
>>>/e/
>>>/t/
>>>/t/
>>>/h/
>>>/e/
>>>/f/
>>>/u/
>>>/ck/
>>>/out/

>> No.27312254

>/tg/ wants to be the little girl

What fucking news.

>> No.27312269

>>27312188
Well no, gender is a social construct.

Femininity is pretty well defined, it's stereotypical female attributes and behaviour. Just like masculinity is stereotypical male behaviour (read: being physically strong, aggressive,not showing emotion, etc).

>> No.27312278

>>27312269

Stereotypes are social constructs.

>A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.

Conceptions, opinions and images all exist within and depend entirely on the culture in which they were created.

>> No.27312280

>>27312235
>"fun" is a social construct

>> No.27312288

>>27312269

>gender is a social construct

>>>/tumblr/

>> No.27312293

>>27312031
>says definition
>posts synonyms

>> No.27312304

>>27312280

No, fun is a buzzword.

>> No.27312305

>>27312280

>"4chan" is a social construct

>> No.27312311

Away with you. If you want to discuss the definitions of words, /lgbt/ is right there.

Stay on topic and stay /tg/ related.

>> No.27312313

>>27312269
In Saxon culture that would be the character of a sulky boy.

If you showed emotion it was because you gave a damn about something and that was good. If you were needlessly aggressive you were a liability. Physical strength was an advantage but duty and loyalty were greater virtues.

Beowulf was the Saxon manly man.

The original story, not that abortion of a CGI movie.

>> No.27312320

>>27312278
okay.jpg

Then femininity is the traditional stereotype for female behaviour. I don't see why you have a problem with this definition. In a society where women are physically weaker and the bearer of children I don't see why they would be different to the stereotypes found in an historical medieval society.

>> No.27312327

I flip a coin for gender and go with the result. The only thing that changes is if the GM decides to go with sexism in the game.

>> No.27312349

So what exactly is wrong with social constructs?

>> No.27312362

>>27312349

STOP FEEEDING THE TROLLS FFS

>> No.27312369

>>27312069
Dude, the word femenine means that. Women don't need to be like that, but a femenine actitude means that, as a masculine actitude means "having qualities traditionally ascribed to men, as strength and boldness", which most of us don't have.

>> No.27312373

>>27312320

I don't have a problem with your definition. I do have a problem with your incorrect use of the term "stereotype". "Being physically weaker" and "bearing children" aren't stereotypes, they're traits. Stereotypes are sets of assumptions about personality, behavior, etc that are derived from those traits. For instance, "being the bearer of children" may translate into "having responsibility for children once they're born" and thus a stereotype about what a mother's supposed to be like (stern or kind, caring or distant, nurturing or withholding, etc). This is important, because as evident in this thread, people confuse traits with the culturally significant interpretations of these traits all the time.

>> No.27312384

>>27312349

Nothing, I don't know what the fuss is about. People arguing against the term seem to think that "social construct" means "not real" or something. It just means there's a significant social component to the way a phenomenon develops in society. It's pretty self-evident stuff.

>> No.27312452

>>27312235
What the fuck is your problem, you raging imbecile? Perhaps you should visit those places yourself, since the post you're replying to is a request to quit bitching about definitions and get back to the original topic.

So maybe quit bitching about tangential shit and engage with the discussion, or go enjoy that shit at one of the many lovely places your post references.

>> No.27312477

>>27312452

No, you see, someone mentioned social constructs and that means they're evil transgender jew feminazi libruls from tumblr srs shitlord space. A great illustration of stereotypes in action, by the way.

>> No.27312507

>>27312031

I must avoid that definition, for if I accept those qualities to be feminine, I must accept that women are inferior.

I do not want to be sexist.

>> No.27312508

>>27312477
I Blame Obamas drone death panels removing burgers from our guns

>> No.27312531

>>27312507
Feminine != female.

That's kind of the whole point of the thread.

>> No.27312653

Whenever I hear people talk about social constructs I get the urge to make a golem/warforged diplomat. Sort of like C3PO.

>> No.27312657

ANYWAY

I don't think a lot of games /tg/ plays are especially good for fostering kindness and nurture from characters. Frankly, I think most RPGs don't.

This often makes it seem that very few characters would exhibit those qualities, despite that under other circumstances many of them certainly would.

People are adaptable, and will shape themselves to their situation. Change the context enough, OP, and most of the male characters, as well as female, will be exhibiting kindness and engaged in nurture.

>> No.27312762

>>27312304
buzzwords are a social construct

>> No.27312783

>>27312653

"I have an extensive database of stereotypes, norms and traditional values for over 5000 societies."

>> No.27312796

I played a warforged cleric, who was a pacifist, a extreme romantic (think pepe lepieu but with no sex drive) and a great love of silk fashion to boot.

>> No.27312818

>>27312653

"Loading privilege check routine. Scanning... privilege unchecked. Commence verbal correction subroutines."

>> No.27312834

I'm gonna be playing a fairly generic fighter with low CHA soon. I don't think that I can really make feminine work there. In general, part of the problem is that in a lot of good (even mainstream!) fantasy that are lauded for their good female characters, the women act like dudes with an occasional aside regarding their vagina.

>> No.27312836

>>27312101
they are feminine qualities

>>27312108
same here, my priest is actually quite feminine, even though he is male and not at all attractive

>> No.27312842

Timid and socially awkward Shallya priestess inspired by Fluttershy from MLP.
Awful character concept.

>> No.27312860

>>27311968
I don't think it *is* possible for a man to assume the psychology of a woman. It's a quantum leap that just won't happen. The same thing is true of women roleplaying men, they just come off as women with men's powers and vice-versa.

All genderswap roleplaying is an exercise in seeing what you could and would do with the opposite sexes strengths, without the opposite sexes' wants and priorities.

>> No.27312865

>>27312039
I think you're being deliberately obtuse.

>> No.27312873

>>27312860
I've been told I write female PoV porn pretty well and that takes something of an altered mindset. I think most of the differences between the genders have been communicated, and you can at least emulate those in realistic magnitudes.

>> No.27312877

>>27312860

Assuming the psychology of robots, aliens, elves, dragons and other fictional creatures is perfectly fine, though. Even though their psychology must by definition be even further a leap.

According to you, it should be impossible to roleplay anything other than an exact copy of yourself. Fortunately, there's this thing called "imagination", you may have heard of it once.

>> No.27312880

>>27312369
No, it doesn't. But considering how often a thread about women appears on /tg/, I'm fairly sure you're just a troll.

There's a small, but incredibly vocal group of women haters on /tg/ who keep threads like this alive.

>> No.27312887

I've played a very motherly, protective Changeling before. Actually, her thing was that she was so focused on watching over others as a result of her time in the hedge that she became a very withdrawn, distant person as a result. The only way you could really tell that she cared about others was how much she'd sacrifice for their happiness.

>> No.27312901

>>27312860
there are people who do it very well by using empathy, understanding and imagination

>> No.27312918

>>27312880
you are literally arguing that a word means something other than its dictionary definition with the op who said he used the dictionary definition


you have some odd issues if you cant take a step back and look at this situation rationally

>> No.27312919

>>27312873
The first key thing here is emulate. A man will never be able to truly, accurately portray a woman, beyond increasingly less-superficial but still hollow emulations. Which is almost fine until you hit the second point: Are you saying you have written PoV for RPs, or just in general? Because it's much easier to write a character with a different psychology to yourself than actually act and react as one yourself in a simulation.

>>27312877
>implying it's possible to do any of those things

>> No.27312925

>>27312919

No true scotsman fallacy, argument worthless.

>> No.27312931

>>27312901
Writing a character who has different values and such to yourself is not the same as RPing one.

>> No.27312935

>>27312919
i disagree with you

we may be different from each other but that does not mean we are inconceivable to each other like you are implying

>> No.27312941

>>27312925
Meaningless point, meaningless fallacy, not even any specific point made, argument worthless.

>> No.27312942

>>27312919
You're just argumentative so I'm not going to carry on a conversation with you.

>> No.27312954

>>27312919
>implying any man or woman is a certain way simply because of their sex
by the way there's this thing called empathy it's pretty cool

>> No.27312956

>>27312941
>>27312942
Hah, almost called it. Yeah, you're a cunt.

>> No.27312961

>>27312935
Are you reading my point properly? Of course we are conceivable to each other, otherwise how could I have made the point in the first place? I'm saying that a man will never be able to accurately RP a woman, there's a difference.

>> No.27312965

>>27312184
>whyboner.png

Well fuck, guess I'll get to writing that for smut sunday, cheers anon.

>> No.27312968

>>27312919

So you're saying roleplaying games are worthless because nobody can "really" roleplay? Even though they may have fun trying to assume a different personality or role?

You sound really really dull. What the fuck does it matter if you ABSOLUTELY 100% don't capture your dwarf's personality? Or your cyborg assassin? Or your vampire? Or your dragon?

The point is you try, and you have fun doing it.

>> No.27312976

>>27312942
That is stupidest thing I have ever read over several years of browsing 4chan.

>> No.27312977

>>27312965
>Well fuck, guess I'll get to writing that for smut sunday, cheers anon.

>assuming I haven't already started writing it

Haw.

>> No.27312979

>>27312919
>A man will never be able to truly, accurately portray a woman, beyond increasingly less-superficial but still hollow emulations
Why?
Why can't he "truly, accurately" portray a woman?
Why are these emulations "increasingly hollow"?
Under that same logic as above, can a woman portray a different woman in a "true, accurate" manner beyond increasingly less-superficial but still hollow emulations?

>> No.27312980

>>27312961
no, there isnt a difference

if a man can conceive how a woman thinks then he is potentially capable of RPing a woman accurately

>> No.27312982

>>27312961

If you hold them to impossible standards of "accurately", then sure. It's exactly like saying that a computer program will never be able to "accurately" emulate a human, even Turing-compatible ones.

>> No.27312991

>>27312965
Ah shit, I gotta get on my next chapter tonight. Lesbians and voyeurism or humiliation? Decisions decisions.

>>27312976
Glad I could make your day. I'm not going to discuss it with you if you care more about the nature of the discussion than the subject itself.

>> No.27312992

>>27312954
But a large part of what people are is defined by their sex. Are you genuinely arguing against that?

Empathy =/= actually being someone else. Nice try.

>> No.27312994

>>27312977

Is the succubus doing the dressing up and stuff to seduce a gearhead or is she just a genuine nerd about engines?

>> No.27313004

>>27312956
I don't even know who you're calling a cunt here.

>> No.27313006

>>27312992
>actually being someone else

Role playing doesn't mean "being someone else". It's, you know, PLAYING a ROLE. Emulation.

>> No.27313007

>>27312977
>>27312965

YOU GUYS BETTER FUCKING DELIVER ON THIS

>> No.27313008

>>27312992
RPing is also =/= being someone else

durr

>> No.27313020

>>27313007
Still typing away at my story of the bored hot inqusitioner that had a boy fap for her amussment to prove he's pure, so it might be a week or so, but will deliver anon.

>>27312977
Want to mud wrestle about it?

>> No.27313022

>>27312968
>So you're saying roleplaying games are worthless because nobody can "really" roleplay?

Not even close to what I'm saying. People's own personality will shine through whatever avatar they make for themselves, even when they make their character make decisions they themselves never would. Play your half-dwarf half-dragonkin cyborg ninja, that sounds fecking awesome. Just remember that you are making its decisions, not it.

>> No.27313023

>>27312887
Hm. That is actually a male stereotype.
The emotionally stunted badass dad.
The guy you never liked much till he sacrifices himself for you.
Only example coming to mind would be Bruce Willis in Armageddon.

>> No.27313025

>>27312992
You mean, there's a large part of what some people do because of cultural constraints and mores due to their sex.

>> No.27313027

>>27313007
Yo question for a succubi fan: an enchantress could feasibly hire one to go after someone for her, right? I might have one in my chapter 2 or 3.

>> No.27313028

>>27312994

My idea was she's spent a few centuries seducing people to the cause of evil and slowly started to become really tired of it. She needed a change of pace! And then she discovers how absolutely fascinating engineering is. The Abyss doesn't like things as structured and orderly as mechanicisms, so they would be largely anathema to her, and that's why it's so fascinating. It's kind of like a lawyer who quits and buys a Harley Davidson after 20 years in the business.

>> No.27313031

>>27311968
My role models is Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman bow to no one. The most feminine thing I can do is wearing a tiara while strangling men.
I might be biased.

>> No.27313033

>>27313023

It's also a stereotype of British upperclass mothers.

>> No.27313035

>>27312965
All of my want anon, you have no god damned idea

>> No.27313040

>>27313022
but that doesnt stop someone from accurately RPing a character fundamentally different in some way (like, say, penis vs vagina between the legs)

>> No.27313051

>>27313033
And American. Fuck, it's just a standard "parenting" stereotype, the only difference really comes down to what sort of sacrifice.

>> No.27313055

>>27312979
Because a man's desires and emotionality are in certain aspects at complete odds with a womans. They go about fulfilling their desires in completely different ways

Men can RP each other, because even if they are opposed on superficial issues they still ultimately share the same psyche, or underlying spirit. If they had each other's short term goals, skillset and knowledge, they'd go about the task the same way. Same for women. Adults can also rp children, even though children are different to adults, because every adult was once a child and can remember what it once was like. No man has ever been a woman before, and vice versa. The best people from other genders can do is guess, better and better.

>> No.27313062

I played a low combat Warlord as a Nobleman's daughter. I played her as a face of the party, using her social status to boost our charisma encounter. She mainly commanded others in battle and rarely jumped into the fray as she didn't want to dirty her gown with blood, nor was she particular adept at actual fighting.

I dunno what you guys define as feminine, but I played her pretty straight and never got shit from my party for being cartoonish or the like.

>> No.27313064

>>27313055
Not really.

>> No.27313065

>>27313055

Ok, I'll bite. What aspects and which ways? It's impossible to discuss when you're being vague like that.

>> No.27313073

>>27313055
>Because a man's desires and emotionality are in certain aspects at complete odds with a womans. They go about fulfilling their desires in completely different ways
and by listening and being empathetic to the reasoning behind that, you can accurately RP a character who is different from yourself in that specific way

>underlying spirit
whatthefuckamireadin.bmp

>> No.27313074

>>27313055
My experience is that pretty much everyone is abysmal at roleplaying children even half decently.

Met a lot of people who are great at crossplaying one direction or the other, though.

>> No.27313076

>>27313020
>Want to mud wrestle about it?

Are you a hot chick?

>> No.27313080

>>27313064
>>27313065
>>27313073
>>27313074
You don't HAVE to respond to someone who clearly doesn't even give a shit what they're arguing about.

>> No.27313081

>>27312980
I know a lot of people who think that's true, but just knowing how women think, feel and such is not enough to actually go through those motions. I'm not saying every man will make a total hackjob of RPing effemininity, I'm saying at some level the character will ultimately be acting like a man because men don't know how not to, even if they understand how others do.

You can understand the mechanics that go into throwing a ball without being able to even pick one up.

>> No.27313082

>>27313076

If the person you're talking to can pass the fem-Turing test, does it matter?

>> No.27313087

>>27312982
Seeing as that's true, I'm glad to see we're on the same page here.

>> No.27313091

>>27313055
men and women arent fundamentally different, we are different by degrees of the same things and *usually* our upbringing further makes us different

every woman has the exact same mechanism in her brain that makes a man masculine, she just isnt as predisposed to use it and her upbringing likely didnt get her to use it either

>> No.27313093

>>27313076
>Girls

Havent /tg/ teached you anything anon? Go into the ERP thread and learn that on here, we can be anything with pretend.

>> No.27313097

So what do people want out of the greasemonkey succubus story?

This is the setup I'm working from.

>>27313028

>> No.27313102

>>27313087

Oh, you're one of those people. Right, been nice chatting with you, but I gotta go do something that's not a complete waste of my time now.

>> No.27313105

>>27313097
baby grease imps

>> No.27313107

>>27312991
>You make a point
>I make a counterpoint
>Ye-yeah, well YOU'RE JUST A ARGUMENTAL PERSON SO NYAH
>That's stupid
>You care about the nature of the argument more than it's content!

>> No.27313112

>>27313006
Which is entirely my point? That it's an emulation, and that empathy or not it doesn't work like that?

>> No.27313122

>>27313025
People like you are the reason /pol/ exists.

>> No.27313126

>>27313028
>>27313097
I'm digging it anon, all I ask is that she has shortish hair that's my fetish

>> No.27313127

>>27313055
Well, then, you've covered the first question and third question.
What about the second regarding "all these emulations are hollow"?

And, another, question, then. Instead of asking about what specific parts of an RP isn't appropriately woman-like in motive and thought:

if someone was RPing over the internet as a woman, how would you tell if the player were female or not? Or, if someone was RPing as a male, how would you tell if the player was male?

And, what does it mean when you misjudge, and one person who you thought was a female character turns out to be male?

Would it be just an "increasingly hollow" emulation of a woman if you can't tell the difference the roleplay between a man RPing a woman and a woman RPing a woman?

>> No.27313130

>>27313097
Strikes me as too cliched in practice. I'd rather you not go into how she got into the "greasemonkey" thing so much. Don't spare the details of the present, but the past isn't so important in a story like this.

>>27313107
You're not denying that you don't give a shit about what you're "discussing."

>> No.27313131

>>27313112
no, you said that empathy is not being someone else, which implies you need to become someone else to RP someone else

get fucked troll

>> No.27313132

>>27313040
So you can portray a futanari, congrats. Are you missing the point that's more difference between a man and a woman than the physical?

>> No.27313134

>>27313112

You claimed emulation wasn't enough to accurately roleplay a person of the opposite gender. Now you're admitting roleplaying is the same as emulation, rendering your point moot.

>> No.27313140

>>27313132
see
>>27313091

>> No.27313143

>>27313097
Thats a cool setup, (other guy typing at it here), probably not going to make anything advanced like that myself, going along the lines of a Succubus that does not really get into the whole seduction part just like doing greasemonkey stuff becouse tech geek - might write some light fluff about the world or something since TG loves it more then the consensual sex in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation

>> No.27313151

>>27313130
>I'd rather you not go into how she got into the "greasemonkey" thing so much.

But that's the interesting part!

>> No.27313155 [DELETED] 

Did you know global rule 6 apparently lets people get banned for shitposting?

It's pretty awesome.

Since that's pretty much all this thread is.

http://www.4chan.org/bans

>> No.27313163

>>27313081
> I'm saying at some level the character will ultimately be acting like a man because men don't know how not to, even if they understand how others do.
If it's accurate enough for the purposes of a male RPing a female that it's indistinguishable from a female RPing a female to outside observers, what makes it an "untrue, inaccurate" portrayal?

You don't need a 100% accurate portrayal, as there's no 100% ideal female and differences between individual females to actually play off things that aren't apparently "exactly female" as differences between females.

>> No.27313169

>>27313151
Maybe in your planning. I'd say what she's dealing with presently is more important than how she got there. Especially so if you're writing it for the smut thread. I'm just saying I don't think there's a way to make a backstory for her compelling enough to be worth spending too much of your few thousand words on, not that she can't have one.

>> No.27313176

>>27312836
No, on 4chan, stereotypical female qualities are the exact opposite of caring and nurturing. They're malicious, destructive, selfish, and a number of other things.
Ergo, in a 4chan context, those are feminine qualities.

>> No.27313178

>>27313163
>there's no 100% ideal female
this is what makes his arguments the most moot, and proves that people can RP the opposite gender perfectly if they are good and driven enough

>> No.27313181

>OP asks good question about how /tg/ roleplays
>uses word feminine to describe general female attitude
>/tg/ is afraid of potential sexism
>"Stahp OP. Why you so sexist. Women are exactly like men just without penises."
smh

>> No.27313182

>>27313064
Yes, really.
>>27313065
It's not that vague if we're all on the same page about stuff like this. Seeing as we aren't, let's go over this.

Men are active, women are passive. That's obvious.

Men are classical optimists and women classical pessimists. That's not what people mean when they use the terms today.

A classic optimist essentially boils their world down to a couple of desirable things, activities or events, and pursues them. Without those things, life is boring, pointless and worthless.

A classical pessimist assesses a few things as being bad or dangerous, and bends their efforts around squashing them. Life is fine so long as those things never rear their heads.

Men thusly chase a few things that they want, while women continually maintain a happy state free of the few things they dislike.

That's the skinny of it. You can give me specific examples and I'll talk you through it if you have any difficulties.

Essentially, those points are the ones that men and women have the hardest point wrapping their heads around, more than any crude physical point like genitals and the ilk. Look at all the classical complaints made by the genders against each other, and you'll see they all eventually boil down to "She's never satisfied/always complaining/demanding!" vs. "He only ever thinks about/does X!".

>> No.27313194

>>27313176
Yes. By /pol/ standards, almost all adventurers are hyper-feminine.

Let's not bring them into this already distasteful discourse.

>> No.27313198

>>27313073
Again, what part of understanding something not being the same as able to do it don't you understand? I empathise with dogs, but does that mean I can properly RP one? (you know, that's actually a good question, but the answer's probably no).

You're reading english.

>> No.27313201

>>27313155
>The quality of posts is extremely important to this community. Contributors are encouraged to provide high-quality images and informative comments.

Shitposting is highly subjective. We're doing more than just "lol did u tka him to da bar?"

We're actually having a discussion on roleplaying, so if you find it questionable, report the thread or specific posts in the thread and hide it instead of backseat moderating.

>> No.27313209

>>27313074
'Chu talking bout Willis? All you have to do is think back to that point in your life when boys/girls were icky, you were blown away by Power Rangers, adults were freakin' giants and the sky was the limit.

You'd have to, I dunno, lack internal empathy or something to have trouble with that.

>> No.27313210

>>27313182
[citation needed]

>> No.27313214

>>27313182
>Men are active, women are passive. That's obvious.
No, it's not. I've known a shitload of women that were more active than a shitload of men I know.

>Men are classical optimists and women classical pessimists. That's not what people mean when they use the terms today.
No, they're not, because too many exceptions again exist.

>Men thusly chase a few things that they want, while women continually maintain a happy state free of the few things they dislike.

>Essentially, those points are the ones that men and women have the hardest point wrapping their heads around, more than any crude physical point like genitals and the ilk. Look at all the classical complaints made by the genders against each other, and you'll see they all eventually boil down to "She's never satisfied/always complaining/demanding!" vs. "He only ever thinks about/does X!".

So, basically, all you are is rooted in stereotype. I thought you were actually trying to discuss an intelligent idea I was disagreeing with. What a disappointment.

>> No.27313217

>>27313143

Is she going to have a dick or have some transgendered adventures?

>> No.27313219

>>27313209
>lack internal empathy
If you haven't realized you're talking to an autistic person yet, you're new around this part of the internet.

>> No.27313220

>>27313182

As I expected, each of your supposed essential points is just standard "men are from mars, women are from venus" shit that can be demolished easily with counterexamples from ethnography, history and anthropology. Those aren't essential qualities, they're just pervasive stereotypes, and those are the most superficial elements of a gender ideal. Contrary to your point, they're the easiest to portray "accurately", since if I'm playing into common stereotypes when narrating, the audience will fill in any gaps in my narration with the stereotype.

>> No.27313221

>>27313091
We are fundamentally different. That is an undisputable fact. If you're going to go clean tumblr here, I'm not certain I'll waste any time arguing this.

This thing here >>27313102 as well.

>> No.27313227

Yes. It's easier to play a woman if you are one IRL.

Here's my contribution to this thread. It's been very helpful to me when making realistic characters.

part 1 http://fantasy-faction.com/2011/fantasy-gender-stereotypes

part 2 http://fantasy-faction.com/2011/writing-fantasy-gender-stereotypes-part-two-writing-the-opposite-gender

part 3 http://fantasy-faction.com/2012/writing-fantasy-gender-stereotypes-part-three-alphas-betas-and-losers-oh-my

>> No.27313229

>>27313198
If you understood a dog well enough, which is probably impossible because of barriers that don't exist between men and women (men and women can talk anything out if they put their minds to it, a dog can't really explain to a human about all the nuances of something like a dog's sense of smell or emotion) and empathised with it, then YES, you could accurately RP a dog.

>> No.27313231

Yeah I play feminine characters sometimes. My male ranger in my current campaign is actually very feminine to the point that the others assume he is as gay as a handbag full of rainbows. He's actually straight; he just happens to be feminine.

>> No.27313234

My blood elven Ranger in World of Warcraft (I know) is an old, butch woman, more akin to to a sergeant hartman with pointy ears

But she's also a mother and she has soft spots for anything family-related

>> No.27313237

>>27313209
Or, you know, be like most human beings and not remember when you were that young/remember it with the nostalgia goggles on.

>> No.27313241

>>27313130
Because why would I have to? There's no evidence beyond a baseless accusation, which I had the decency to humour in spite of its churlish.

I'm not even certain why "not giving a shit about the discussion", or the subject matter or whatever the hell you're blathering about, bears any relevance at all.

>> No.27313244

>>27313217
Those threads have actually been lacking in that. I'm scared to put it in my setting since I want to continue it for a few stories, though. And once you throw TG into a setting, all bets are off for the other shit you have planned.

>>27313241
autism

>> No.27313250

>>27313234
>World of Warcraft

People still RP in that?

>> No.27313258

>>27313074
I kind of agree now that you mention it. It seems like accurately RPing children of either gender would be a lot harder than RPing an adult of the opposite gender.

>> No.27313272

>>27313241
because if you are just talking for the sake of something like coming out on top or having a laugh instead of for the sake of getting to the bottom of the issue you are just ruining the discussion for everyone else and should get out

>> No.27313278

>>27313250

Of course. When you've been playing the same characters in the same world for 7 years, it's kinda hard to let go.

>> No.27313285

>>27313234

>blood elf woman

>butch

What.

No. Seriously. What.

>> No.27313290

>>27313244
>Those threads have actually been lacking in that. I'm scared to put it in my setting since I want to continue it for a few stories, though. And once you throw TG into a setting, all bets are off for the other shit you have planned.

I don't follow what you're saying. Can you explain?

And no, I don't mean "lol bcuz this is my fetish". I am genuinely curious as well.

>> No.27313292

>>27313278
funny, i think letting go would be the easiest thing to do

holding on for that long would be hard

>> No.27313304

>>27313127
The emulations will naturally be hollow because a man cannot actually feel like a woman. Men and women can feel the same feelings in their elemental form (sadness, joy, rage etc.) but the reasons why differ on certain levels. Some of them are sliding scales - everyone enjoys sex, ice cream and so on - but there are absolute disctinctions both within around those feelings that at the most extreme cause completely different feelings in a man and woman. The process is different.

Good question! I'd start by assessing the way they'd respond to my statements. Men tend to take the literal words very head on, break by break, while women rather react to the entire statement, and to the sentiment they've derived from the whole. Men are more interested in the exact logical crunch of points while woman, funnily enough, care more about the emotional direct of a debate. This is especially obvious when you view a pair of anons fighting over the internet; You can see whether its two men or two women. (Two women don't fight in quite the same way)

A misjudgement is, like in any other moment in life, an oppurtunity to laugh and reevaluate. See what you missed on the first run through.

As to that last statement, it just doesn't happen.

>> No.27313310

>>27313131
You're calling me a troll with your level of reading comprehension? I'm speechless.

>> No.27313318

>>27313304
>but the reasons why differ on certain levels
no they dont

>there are absolute disctinctions
no there arent

>The process is different.
not on a fundamental level

>> No.27313319

>>27313285

> Bad-mouthed due to never learning Common properly
> Hard, aggressive attitude due to being a bitter mess that lived through several wars and genocides
> Short hair due to military background and not wanting it in her face when sniping around
> Variable sense of hygiene, used to work in deserts and jungles
> Eyepatch over one eye. She actually lost it once and had it replaced with a prosthetic one, but she keeps the eyepatch for the reputation
> She's actually short and flat-chested

Gee I don't know

>>27313292

The hardest part is always letting go

>> No.27313320

>>27313290
Not really. I don't have much to back it up, but once you throw futa or gender TF in, things always seem to ramp up in absurdity beyond that. My settings are generally not super-serious from the start, so it'd be hard to handle those issues seriously. Plus, once one chick has a dick it's sort of expected that another will at some point.

>> No.27313322

>>27313278
How do you even RP in there - aint the chat box like limited to 60 words or something? Or are you using a voice chat and then the game like some sort of game board?

>>27311968
Ontopic: No, generally not - I am a rather poor RP:er still, at the moment I am trying my best at becoming good at just doing a male character - besides, I can't really pull of an good enough female voice without people laughing, perhaps something for the future however.

>>27313217
Probably not, aiming at a one-shot silly thing a few chapters at most.

>> No.27313326

>>27313134
I never came close to doing the former point.

>>27313140
I hadn't read that post when I made that post. You people make your posts ridiculously quickly, and people tell me I'm a lightning typist.

>> No.27313335

>>27313322

Well, it works like any text-only roleplaying, only augmented visually by the game.

>> No.27313337

>>27313163
>If it's accurate enough for the purposes of a male RPing a female
Which it never will be, and at no point was said or implied as such.

>>27313210
Spend time around both sexes.

>> No.27313339

>>27313322
Sadly, most people in text-based roleplaying situations tend to just post a sentence or two at a time. At least, the places I've been the last fifteen years.

Mostly RPI MUDs, admittedly. Also the game I run online.

>> No.27313341

>>27313326
youre typing pretty slowly

>I never came close to doing the former point.
this entire argument is going on because everyone who reads what you write believes you are making that point

which is reasonable to do, seeing how thats what you are saying (even if you arent thinking it)

>> No.27313348

>>27313319
>> Bad-mouthed due to never learning Common properly
>> Hard, aggressive attitude due to being a bitter mess that lived through several wars and genocides
>> Short hair due to military background and not wanting it in her face when sniping around
>> Variable sense of hygiene, used to work in deserts and jungles
>> Eyepatch over one eye. She actually lost it once and had it replaced with a prosthetic one, but she keeps the eyepatch for the reputation
>> She's actually short and flat-chested

Blood elves are magic-addicted dainty barbie girls (and ken dolls) who live in a magical fairytale land.

Not saying your special unique snowflake isn't fun and all, but definitely not a blood elf.

>> No.27313354

>>27313337
>Spend time around both sexes.
I do. A lot. I disagree with you completely. You are seeing fundamental differences which just aren't there. I assume it's because of magical thinking or something, because you aren't providing any kind of evidence whatsoever.

>> No.27313366

>>27313214
I don't think you understand how activity and passivity works. Being outgoing =/= active, being rooted in one domain =/= passive. Many men come across as passive because they act as guards or similar load-bearing jobs, but the crux of the work is always active in any case. Some rogueish women come of as active as well, but their generalist, maintained activity conveys passivity. Some men and women do skirt the middle of this point, but for every one there is another man absolutely hyperactive and vice-versa.

What exceptions? Are you actually going to deal with my points or aren't you? Dismissing my points as "stereotypes" is not disproving them in any way. I thought you were actually trying to discuss an intelligent idea I was disagreeing with. What a disappointment.

(See how obnoxious that is? Knock it the fuck off.)

>> No.27313367

>>27313320

I'm not sure what setting you're talking about. When I write fapfics I always use out-of-the-box settings (D&D for instance) because it's so much easier to have every assumption about the world already answerable by "Go read the DMG". Saves you so much time.

As for TF/TG, that's only a problem if introduced in an ongoing narrative where you don't think it belongs. If it's one-shots with new characters constantly I don't see the issue.

Also I have no idea who you are or what you've written since I don't normally follow the writefag threads ((since they split them up into "normal" and "fapfic" which was asinine))

>> No.27313370

>>27313320
>>27313290
Basically what it boils down to for me is that I'm scared of it getting out of control. Like, what proportion of the population has a dick at any given time? Once you shift that off the 50/50 range, how far do you shift it? How often do I bring those characters up to represent that? It's really hard to keep those things in check so I try to avoid it in longer settings. Super-fetishy pieces in general usually work better standalone, I think.

>>27313339
In real-time ones like WoW, yeah definitely.

>> No.27313388

>>27313348

> You can't do that peaceful city-dweller orc trader, all orcs are ugly barbarians living in clans
> You can't do a remorseful undead, all undeads are tainted to their very core and want only the death of all living
> You can't do a neutral demon character, all demons are loyal evil and serve their hellish masters

I don't know man. I know my character is a unique snowflake, but I don't really think you're very open-minded here, especially when the setting has space blue Buddhist demons from Poland that are actually the same race as demons.

>> No.27313396

>>27313219
>autism = lack of internal empathy
What the solid fuck.
>>27313220
I haven't even touched that book, this is based entirely from my own observations of men and women. So far, it's worked, and I can deal with people of all genders much better than I could before. Dismiss them as stereotypes I'm only loosely aware of (that book probably pins men and women as active and passive, like what I posted and everything else, right?) all you like. It's not a counterargument.

>> No.27313404

>>27313339
>>27313335
Hah, fair enough then. Sounds like its a bit limited then? But, I guess using the visual aspects you can convey whats happening? Otherwise it would seem a bit slow with two blokes stairing at each other for five seperate posts cramming out content.

>> No.27313415

>>27313229
>and empathised with it
Will you stop posting this like it means anything whatsoever? All the empathy in the world won't help you, and it's entirely possible to roleplay someone you don't empathise with, like a nuts terrorist or a christian paladin.

>> No.27313419

>>27313354
This.
I met a lot of women and no two were alike.
Same for the male population.
Most stereotypical behavior stemmed from things clearly outside sex or gender.

>>27313366
That is outright delusional.
You define women as ultimately passive, then come up with a definition of passive that dismisses activity as superficial.
Your logic is circular.

>> No.27313425

>>27313237
>implying most human beings are like this.
If you can't remember your own childhood, with all its ups and downs, it's pains and joys and everything different and the same about it and your adult life, you're an automaton with artificial memories.

>> No.27313431

>>27313404
Not terribly fond of MMO RP for partly that reason. I prefer MUDs of various flavors for my text-based RP when I can't do online tabletop.

Way too hikki for real life tabletop.

>> No.27313432

>>27313404

It is limited, but you can make it work somehow. It's immersive to explore a visible landscape, real dungeons, to have real duels, etc.

>> No.27313436

>>27313244
>austism
There we go. Thank you for playing! Be sure to pay a visit to /b/, or maybe exotic /v/, sometime soon! We're sure you'll enjoy it!

>> No.27313448

>>27313272
. . . I know? That's why it's important to have people who don't care for the discussion, who only care for the facts and not who wins?

>> No.27313452

>>27313425
Suddenly, my life makes sense. Thank you, random anon, for enlightening me as to my origins and why I'm always miserable.

Now to find my power off switch or, failing that, an EMP so that I might never again sully this perfect board with my objectively wrong opinions.

>> No.27313455

>>27313388

Yeah but none of those are as drastic as a blood elf becoming coarse. Their whole culture is about centuries-old refinement. Even Sylvanas who is fucking dead and rotting is still a pretty princess who dresses fancy and behaves like nobility. Even the Farstriders are super-pretty and fancy.

>> No.27313457

>>27313396
>this is based entirely from my own observations of men and women. So far, it's worked

if you do something stupid and it works, it was still stupid to do

i once saw a math student do pic related, and he got the correct result

you are saying there are intrinsic, fundamental differences between men and women and thats why they behave differently on a basic level

but you are NOT explaining why nonintrinsic, nonfundamental differences couldnt be to blame for the different behaviour

>> No.27313473

>>27313367
Well even with a DnD setting all rolled up for us, you control how the things inside that box are handled. You can definitely make a more grimdarky DnD world, or a lighthearted one. Or at least make it appear that way through the stories you tell, if you really want to get philosophical. I suppose you can do really serious pieces with futanari and genderswapping and whatever else, but that's just not how I enjoy those fetishes. Even with art on /d/, I'd take them more cartoony than "realistic" (not in regards to size or subject matter, just in the way it's drawn.) I guess it's personal preference but, on top of keeping balance, I really just don't trust myself to keep them in check if I follow the same characters for a while (as you mentioned, and I said in the post that came like 10 seconds after yours.)

>> No.27313475

>>27313055
Eh i made a good job of attempting to be a man for a while, convinced a lot of people too. Pretty sure i can roleplay one.

>> No.27313476

>>27313432
Hrm, well interesting I guess - guess it happens on RP realms? But where? - Peaked my interest now.

>>27313431
Try online voice chats - its a step up towards RL.

>> No.27313478

I don't think that the genteel, coy, coquettish "soft touch" associated with femininity really makes much sense for murder hobos. Behaviorally speaking, you probably have more in common with the woman who lives next door to you than you would a *male* adventurer (and that's not even considering the alienness of an elf or dwarf). So unless you obsess over accurately depicting the psychology of a person who lives a life of slaughter in a land of monsters, the gender thing shouldn't be a stumbling block.

>> No.27313481

>>27313318
Meh. I've given my reasons. My life's experiences disagree with yours. Counter my points or just accept it and go about your affairs. See who's understanding rings true at the end.

>> No.27313486

>>27313481
>who's

>> No.27313502

>>27313478
Of course, that all assumes you play a fantasy-based game with at least semi-regular combat, but statistically speaking, you probably do. And even if you don't, you most likely play a non-fantasy-based game with at least semi-regular combat.

>> No.27313504

>>27313481
i get what you are saying, you are saying there are fundamental differences and they explain the different behaviour

but you still didnt explain why the more reasonable explanation cant be the case; why cant nonfundamental differences be to blame?

>> No.27313509

>>27313455

Not everyone can be a noble living in a princess' castle. There's got to be cooks, stablehands for all those fancy mounts, footsoldiers for the army and a lot of other stuff that can't just be done by an autonomous magic broom. The character is from that stock and comes from an old family of ranchers living near Zul'Aman.

She's not coarse like a grizzly bear. She's still an elf, she doesn't shave her beard daily or anything. The fate of her people just served as a huge reality-check for her, sometimes you gotta spend less time putting on makeup and more time whiping up the youngsters in shape, you know?

She's also bi and still sexy as fuck when she tries, she just doesn't care at all most of the time.

>> No.27313521

>>27313476

World of Warcraft has dedicated roleplaying realms yes.

>> No.27313524

>>27313341
No I'm not. My mother is a secretary, has been doing it since words per minute was a job requirement (which it may still be, I haven't looked into it) and she was impressed at my natural typing skills. Bear in mind I'm responding to several people here, coming up with a response for each statement made while a whole group responds to my each and every point and I suppose it actually makes sense.

Those people have difficulty reading, or understanding written word. Including you, it would appear.

It's difficult for men and women to write each other as fictional characters.

It's difficult to merely emulate the actions, thoughts and feeling pattern (note: NOT the feelings, the way they develop feelings) of the opposite gender in RP.

It's impossible to actually bona-fide think, feel and prioritise like the opposite gender, including in RP.

That there is my entire point and has been my entire point throughout this discussion. Misrepresentations or not, that's all it's ever been.

>> No.27313532

>>27313509

Your post reminds me, yesterday there was a thread where we briefly discussed a female blood elf mage becoming a shaman and slowly warming up to the "dirty, grubby" life of skimpy outfits, talking to rocks and smoking weed.

It was a fun discussion while it lasted.

>> No.27313542

>>27313473

I understand what you're saying. Trust me, I wasn't slamming your writing preferences. In fact I think they're perfectly good, and it's good you have firm rules for yourself.

>> No.27313545

>>27313354
I can only think you don't spend enough, or enough time actually closely. Have you not seen how much men are more confrontational than women? Have you not seen the differences in the two gender's approach to dealing with problems? (eg impassionate discrete solution vs. emotional crusade) You aren't seeing fundamental differences which just are there. I assume it's because of magical thinking or something, because you aren't providing any kind of evidence whatsoever.

(I will continue to parrot your own obnoxiousness as long as you are so)

>> No.27313548

>>27313524
compared to pretty much anyone ive seen in a similar discussion on 4chan, you are very slow

you might just take a long time to read or think about what you will write, but your replies are a LOT slower than most people

but thats ok, i dont really mind, its not something to hold against a person

see the backlog of posts you didnt read yet for a response to the content part of your post

>> No.27313563

>>27313545
Two wrongs don't make a right, broheim.

Also, your personal sample of the human population isn't the entirety of the human population.

Neither is the other guy's, but hypothesis can only be disproved, not proved, so when one experience states there is more variety than your experience, it is logical that your experience isn't the only experience possible.

Just accept that not every man and woman falls within your limited worldview.

>> No.27313564

>>27313545
Of COURSE men are in general more confrontational than women. Yes, I've seen the direct solution and the emotional crusade.

But guess what. I've seen those things from both genders, not just one for each. It might be rarer and more subdued when it happens on the "wrong" gender, but the EXACT thing does happen on both genders.

Which proves that there are no fundamental differences.

>> No.27313566

>>27313419
No, it really isn't. Passive is passive, active is active. The conscious focus of the task is more meaningful than whether you stand around a whole lot or move everywhere. We're talking child's logic here. You're outright delusional.

(Obnoxious count the third)

>> No.27313576

>>27313452
You're welcome, creepy individual who thinks it's inhuman and robotic to remember your own fucking childhood. Jesus, where you actually molested or something?

>> No.27313578

>>27313566
>count the third
That one wasn't me. And when I do it I'm not doing it to annoy you, you know. I'm being perfectly serious.

>> No.27313582

>>27313475
People see what they expect to see.
Though it is generally easier to pass for a man.
Very small, beardless men are by no means uncommon while tall, bulky women are a rarity at best. Not to mention the need to deal with facial hair. Even if you manage t stay smooth 'round the cheeks, razor cuts are hard to explain. Same for voice. Male-aligned clothing being more baggy and concealing helps, too.

Once you pass a perfunctory optical once-over, you are safely inside one of two boxes and things will be interpreted accordingly.
You are not hysterical, you are an idiot. You are not on your period, you are being a jerk.
You are not a woman, you are a rather small guy who happens to be either not very hairy or well-shaven.

Effectively you could get away with just about anything that does not necessarily contradict the initial assumption. To a degree, naturally.

>> No.27313583

>>27313564

I guess that depends on your definition of "fundamental"? It looks like there is an essential difference, at least, and that there is no problem with pointing it out as a result.

>> No.27313586

>>27313457
I knew someone was going to come up with some blithe bullshit like that. By that notion, how do you know your own attitude towards gender isn't stupid and you've just been getting lucky? Let's stay away from retarded avenues.

>> No.27313591

>>27313576
Probably. I don't remember, though.

Try asking a random person on the street how their brain and thought processes differed when they were five and see how accurate it is compared to an actual five year old.

>> No.27313593

>>27313475
What, you mean in real life? Props to you for your acting I suppose, how did you do it?

>> No.27313595

>>27313586
how is it a retarded avenue? because it literally defeats your argument completely?

>> No.27313604

>>27313486
The typo that ended the world.

>> No.27313605

>>27313542
I know. I just like talking about writing fun things. Especially when I'm procrastinating writing something boring for uni.

>> No.27313616

Could we maybe make a writefag thread to discuss instead? Because this argument in this one is really drowning us out.

>> No.27313624

>>27313504
Because they are consistent across all men and women. That has been the point all along.

>>27313548
This is plain old spurious. I've found myself making half the damn comments in 4chan threads before because everyone else took so long to reply. I have filled 2 A4 sheets in paragraphs of writing. Admittedly, I don't have to wait a minute before each paragraph goes through and I'm allowed to type a second number.

Incidentally, why is it taking so long to allow a second post now? It used to be only 15-30 seconds for a followup post, what's going on?

>> No.27313626

>>27313586
occams razor

we are both giving sufficient explanations for why men and women behave differently

except you have a big additional theory crammed in there for no reason

>> No.27313664

>>27313624
Try reading the news post in giant bold text atop the page.

Still waiting on a response to >>27313563

>> No.27313667

>>27313563
What wrongs? What rights?

Every single last man and woman I have ever observed, everything I have ever read about men and women, everything ever that didn't come from a nuts feminist or tumblrite or an anonymous over the internet lines up with my understanding of sex and gender. The simple consistent patterns of active, classically optimist men vs. passive, classically pessimist/standardist women is clear wherever I look. The last point you make can be better applied to my fellow interlocutors than myself.

>> No.27313679

>>27313667
>What wrongs?
>(I will continue to parrot your own obnoxiousness as long as you are so)

Also it only takes one piece of contradictory evidence to prove a hypothesis wrong. Form a new one that includes the new evidence.

i.e. people are people, not cookie cutter copies.

>> No.27313684

>>27313624
>Because they are consistent across all men and women. That has been the point all along.

ok, ill choose to ignore your claim to omniscience for the sake of continuing a rational discussion

you still didnt provide a sufficient reason for believing the differences in behavior dont come from common mental traits interpreted differently (which is more reasonable and in line with modern science) and instead come from something fundamentally different

you keep repeating that they do, but you arent explaining why they are a better explanation than the simpler one which still explains everything

>> No.27313691

>>27313509
>>27313388
>>27313319
>>27313234

I... I'm sorry anon. But thinking about your character is giving me a boner. Not even the strangest boner, this one is perfectly explainable.

>> No.27313698

>>27313564
>Of COURSE men are in general more confrontational than women. Yes, I've seen the direct solution and the emotional crusade.
Then you've seen a good 50% of my point, or least two solid pieces of evidence that is repeatable wherever you go.
>But guess what. I've seen those things from both genders, not just one for each. It might be rarer and more subdued when it happens on the "wrong" gender, but the EXACT thing does happen on both genders.
But it never lasts. No man ever remains, in this case, emotionally crusadey for ever, but he will always be confrontational (unless he's immature in some capacity) and no woman remains, for this instance, confrontational but (very meek, subdued and abused women aside) are always crusadey. It doesn't have to flair to the surface, the fact that it does so readily while the other is a temporary and non-guaranteed state at best says which one is rooted deep in the gender's psyche and which is a learnt, unnatural behaviour.

Which proves that there are fundamental differences.

(hue)

>> No.27313699

>>27313691
he did say she was supposed to be sexy

nothing to apologize for

>> No.27313714

>>27313578
I don't care, it's still an incredibly obnoxious piece of rhetoric. Seriousness is also irrelevant, though good for the purposes of laughs.

>> No.27313717

>>27313699
I'm detecting strong concentrations of MG Goldshire ITT.

>> No.27313730

>>27313591
Stupid example. Ask the average person to talk about what they remember from when they were five and you'd pick up on the same trends underneath it all. Not remember anything is not the same as not remembering somethings.

In any case, I actually pity your own like of awareness of your youth, or your entire life if this is a trolling attempt.

>> No.27313735

>>27313698
>But it never lasts.

In either case. Women will not be emotional crusaders forever and men will not always be confrontational. Some men can spend almost all of their time confrontational because they are comfortable that way, but sooner or later they come down.

>immature
>opinions

I'm sorry anon. We aren't going to get anywhere here. I know I'm right but I can't reach you; I'm sure you feel the same way about me.

Let's just end it and have a nice day.

>> No.27313736

>>27313566
So, you are calling females passive why?
You define all avenues of female activity as fundamentally passive but give no reason beyond the observation.
When physical activity does not define your 'activity' term, what does?

You going from expectations and generalizations without looking back to see if there is a factual foundation.
The sheer impression of passivity and pessimism can be logically explained by gender, as opposed to sex.
If you are economically dependent, home-bound and in charge of finances, you are bound to worry more than someone who works physically and thus takes their mind off such things, having someone worry who is not physically exhausted.
If you are dependent, you are pressed into a passive role.

This falls apart the second you do the same job, have the same income, play the same role.

All around that is no more than cultural perception and the statistical difference testosterone makes in aggression.

>> No.27313737

>>27312184
>>27312977
Does anyone mind if I post up the thing I wrote already? I wasn't really looking at the later posts when I wrote it, so it's a fair bit different to what they asked for, but hey, writefaggotry

>> No.27313743

>>27313737
Go for it dood. I'm procrastinating over here; fuel my fire.

>> No.27313745

>>27313737

Make a new thread, this one will likely be purged.

>> No.27313746

>>27313595
Because it fails to even relate to the argument?
>>27313626
Because your theory fails to account for why the differences are so pervasive across all humanity, why they're so consistent, deep and irremovable? The razor's in my hand. The theory, in the same sense as gravity and evolution, stands.

>> No.27313749

I played what was essentially a noblewoman once. She had servants (mind controlled ones sure), rode in a carriage everywhere because walking was beneath her, treated the party like peons (because they were just servants she hadn't mind controlled into complete obedience yet) and spent most of her time and money playing politics and buying clothes to better put on airs so she could continue to better play politics. She was one of my favorite characters. She wasn't any different on the outside than your typical wealthy woman, but on the inside she was utterly determined to dominate everyone and everything.

In the end she won though. Elsa always wins in the end.

>> No.27313753

>>27313737
just post it, anyone who could mind has way less than no sense of humor

>> No.27313755

>>27313699

Well what fuels my boner is >traditionally pretty girlygirl race >short hair, flat chest, one eye, filthy, foul-mouthed

Hnnnngh

>> No.27313757

>>27313664
I'll admit I glazed over that, thanks. I hadn't read this post by the point I made that post, chill yer tits.

>> No.27313765

>>27313746
my theory doesnt fail, it explains it perfectly, if you want to ignore it then fine, continue on with your delusions

>> No.27313779

>>27313745

Not only that, it's close to autosage

>> No.27313782

>>27313730
Not trolling. Every kid character I've ever roleplayed either acted exactly like an adult or like a toddler (baby talk, etc) despite roleplaying ~12 years old.

Fifteen years of roleplay, there's been -maybe- one or two that wasn't one of the above.

>> No.27313787

>>27313737
>>27313743
"You're probably wondering about the overalls and the wrench, right?"

The succubus seemed distracted as she adjusted the rig. Delicate yet callused fingertips play over the gleaming metal, pulling up the wrench with her tail as she tightens the clasp.

"Mm."

"Well, it's an affectation, really. I started it.. twenty, thirty years ago? There was a man... well, there's always a man, or a boy, or.. something male, anyway. Anyway, he- Oh, hang on a second-" A pause, as she stands on tiptoes, tugging on something within the machine's guts, reaching past oily gears to pull something back into position. Her solid workboots resting back on the unsteady footing.

>> No.27313795

>>27313787
Just go ahead and pastebin it for us. 1 minute post timers are killer.

>> No.27313799

>>27313679
That's there wrong, not mine. I am literally rubbing their nose it. If some snatches something off of you, it's not wrong to snatch it back.

Leaping from what I've said to "ORL PEEPS BE SAME YA" is quite staggering.

>> No.27313800

>>27313787
"He loved mechanical gadgets, that's what." She wiped clean her fingers on the overalls without looking down, a long greasy smear down the baggy denim materials, letting out a sigh. "Oh, how I wanted to be played with just like those toys of his, have his powerful hands turn me on just like those machines, taken on the workroom floor and controlled by him... -and harvest bits of his seed, of course.. I am a succubus, after all, right?"

"Mm."

She rocked back on her heels, the edges of them digging into the man's thighs slightly as she climbed down off him.

"My seduction didn't work. It was frustrating, let me tell you. But he wasn't interested in just fucking- well, he was, but he never treated me the same way. Sure, it was fun, used like that on the bonnet of a car, or behind the generator, pounded with each thrum of the turbine-" She stopped momentarily, leaning against the casing of the machine as she tucked some of the loose hair back again with a hairclip. Lost in memories. And then she reached out, pulled the switch on the side of it.

"Mmmm-! Mmmm!"

>> No.27313809

>>27313755
>>27313691

Uh ... Thanks, I guess? She's got white/silver-ish hair if that rocks your box.

Won't provide pictures because fuck giving potentially personal information.

>> No.27313812

>>27313809
>Won't provide pictures because fuck giving potentially personal information.

>a screenshot with no name or server information

>personal information

Don't be a dick, dude. Just post the damn pic.

>> No.27313813

>>27313800
"Still comfortable? Now, where was I... Ah, right, the outfit. -I wanted to know what sort of passion he used on his toys, his work. So I watched him. And after a while, after he told me off for trying to get in his pants in the middle of a job, I started helping him out a bit. It was difficult, let me tell you. Seducing, teasing, fucking, all that kind of thing is as easy as sin for us. But this - this was hard. And I wanted it at the time more than anything."

The machine rumbled, bits chugging away in a powerful shaking movement. She grinned at it, checking the controls. Turning it up a notch.
"You know how it goes - I wasn't love with him. Oh, no. I just wanted to have him. So I learned from him. From others, too. And - well, sexy clothing is fun and all, and so is long hair. But when it gets sucked into gears and gets torn off, or when half of it almost pulls off your scalp? Not f-. Ok, the first isn't fun when there's no-one there to take advantage of your sudden disrobement."

Speaking of which - slowly, she started to unzip the front of those coveralls, sliding the wrench back into a front pocket.
"So, this sort of outfit. And shorter hair. And I fell in love with... this, y'know?" Her hand encomapssing the workshop around her, scattered tools and machinery and who-knows what about the place. As she sat in his lap, leaning forwards a tad.

Underneath the coveralls, she wore nothing.

>> No.27313814

/tg/ needs to overanalyze so neckbeards can argue as if what they know about such a malleable subject is concrete in its correctness. Most of /tg/ has learned about femininity from the internet so such arguments are to be taken with a pile of salt.

Even mine,

What is and what is perceived as feminine will vary. Even the definition leaves the final measure up to the perceiver.

>> No.27313817

>>27313735
>In either case. Women will not be emotional crusaders forever and men will not always be confrontational.
Wrongarino. You're just wrong, that's how men and women are.

You're literally throwing the towel in over that? Men who shy away from confrontation with anything that both opposes them and isn't going to get them killed are immature. If that's a sticking point for you then I guess part we must.

>> No.27313823

>>27313799
You appear to be one of those people I've heard about.

The people that are either trolling or literally cannot see their own hypocrisy.

If it's the former, then not continuing this conversation will prevent you from continuing your filthy hobby.

If it's the latter, I suggest seeing a therapist about that. I'm not a therapist, so I'll be exiting this discussion with you regardless.

>> No.27313824

>>27313813
"Mm-mmmmm......"

"And, finally, I had found that I was actually making things, and enjoying it. And I hardly noticed when he had gone, as I built more things, dabbled, made my own projects. It's fun! I love doing it! And quite a lot of the people around here... well, some might disapprove, but others have... well, let's just say some of the other girls volunteer to test out my machines, eh?" And she had unzipped fully, and shifted forwards as she sank down, feeling the faint buzz and thrust of the rig vicariously, each movement transmitted upwards into her as she let out a light moan. Oily coveralls clinking with tools and her callused fingertips against him and pale pure skin underneath meeting him there, trapped and helpless.

"W-well, then. Enough about my rambling. How about we find out together what this baby can do, eh?" And with that, with a dirty little smile, she leaned into him, and twisted the dial all the way to full.

>> No.27313831

>>27313812

> What is Google search by image linking to guild forums and shit

>> No.27313833

>>27313586
You've put yourself in a tough position. By allowing yourself to use anecdotal evidence, your personal experiences, as a means of determining absolute truths about human nature, you open the door for other people to use personal experience to refute it, because ANY exception means it is not absolute.

This ends with you in the unenviable position of telling people they don't have, or are wrong about their experiences because they contradict yours, while others can confidently remark that your conclusions are not adequately supported.

>> No.27313837

>>27313824
>>27313813
>>27313800
>>27313787

Not bad. Not really my cup of tea, but not bad as a starter.

>> No.27313839

>>27313787
>>27313800
>>27313813
>>27313824
http://pastebin.com/5etUCwHX

Pastebinned, etc, that's all I've done. Thought it'd be a good place to end at.

>> No.27313856

>>27313809

Gotta agree with

>>27313812


Just crop the pic up and post it. You can't tease us this much and then blueballs us.

>> No.27313860

>>27313839
I like the storytelling method more than the dialogue. I was entertained but my dick is just like "eeh" about the whole thing.

>> No.27313864

>>27313736
The key focus of their activity, the conscious element that defines the real work of their jobs, hobbies and such, is passive. They maintain something, they keep up a state of X so that Y list of things occurs on time and Z list doesn't. Their are active components, and some rare jobs have more active components than passive, but the commanding component is passive. Always. Go from there.

>You going from expectations and generalizations without looking back to see if there is a factual foundation.
Well that's an assumption and a half.
>The sheer impression of passivity and pessimism can be logically explained by gender, as opposed to sex.
Homosexuals aside, gender is sex. Go back to tumblr right now if you disagree. There's literally no argument here.
>If you are economically dependent, home-bound and in charge of finances, you are bound to worry more than someone who works physically and thus takes their mind off such things, having someone worry who is not physically exhausted.
I assume you are discussing the classic domestic family dynamic that has existed throughout and across all human culture for as far back as can be assessed and is only slightly subverted now, at a time of gender strife like no other? Why do you think men and women are naturally pushed into these roles? Why do you think men and women naturally move into, if not consciously leap into these roles headfirst? Is it possible because they're biologically, metabolically and psychologically suited to them?

>> No.27313869

>>27313824
>>27313813
>>27313800
>>27313787
Thank you anon, writefaggotry is always appreciated and in my opinion so are short haired mechanics

>> No.27313875

>>27313765
It does fail, and I have explained why in contrast to your own deficiencies in this realm. If you want to ignore it then fine, continue on with your delusions.

(heagh)

>> No.27313882

>>27313782
God, I do not envy your circle of friends. Do all these people take their examples from Homestuck or what?

>> No.27313883

>>27313817
When you speak in absolutes, you tend to prove you're an asshole.

>> No.27313885

>>27313860

My only real problem was that it felt like there was still more emphasis on the succubus part than the mechanid part. Maybe that's just my waifuism speaking.

>> No.27313888

>>27313823
You appear to be one of those people I've heard about.

The people that are either trolling or literally cannot see their own hypocrisy.

If it's the former, then not continuing this conversation will prevent you from continuing your filthy hobby.

If it's the latter, I suggest seeing a therapist about that. I'm not a therapist, so I'll be exiting this discussion with you regardless.

(There are records for twattish behaviour and you are OBLITERATING THEM BRAH)

>> No.27313890

>>27313856
>>27313831

I'm at work right now, will provide if the thread is still alive when back home in two hours

>> No.27313904

>>27313885
Yeah, some more physical description would have done a lot. Like I said earlier, the prompt here looked like it leaned more towards painting a picture than telling a story.

>> No.27313906

>>27313885
Yeah, possibly. I wanted to make it "Mechanic, who's also incidentally a succubus" but I suspect I might have overdid the second aspect a bit.

>> No.27313914

>>27313882
That's what you get for getting most of your roleplay from text-based online roleplaying on MUDs and such. I wouldn't call them friends. Just people I have to roleplay with.

>> No.27313918

>>27313833
There's nothing tough about it. When someone posed how I developed my understanding of gender, I told them the truth, which is based on my own experiences and insight. What else would there be? Turns out, it's the basis for everyone elses. SHOCK AND HORROR! The only resolution to this conversation has been, for the longest time, to go away and live and see who's gist was more meaningful at the end of it.

There's only so much explaining you can do over a medium like this. When a disagreement comes down to points as fundamental as these, either party can simply not take the other party's word for it. Everyone knows this, and everyone with sense does not care. Hence why the statement was meaningless, pithy bullshit.

>> No.27313923

>>27313888
Cool. Call Guinness, would you? I'm sure they'll want a witness.

>> No.27313925

>>27313906

It was a good effort for such a quickly-written story, though.

But yeah, it was more like "succubus who's into sexy cosplay".

>> No.27313929

>>27313888
You're both twats.

>> No.27313931

>>27313883
There are absolutes. They exist. What are you afraid of?

>>27313914
Yeah, my only advice to meet more people in person. People who themselves meet more people in person. I'm not trying to be a smug bastard, it's genuinely something that has to happen at some point, and it's eye-opening.

>> No.27313938

>>27313906
Most of my problem with that aspect was that we all KNOW how succubi work. And you brought it up, like, three times in a pretty short story. If those were talking about her grease-stained hands I think it might have done a lot more.

>> No.27313942

>>27313923
I'm on it, ma'am.

>> No.27313948

>>27313929
You're a worse twat for judging people on the providence of one part of one observed argument.

>> No.27313949

>>27313931
I'm not trying to be an edgy bastard, but people honest-to-gods are not worth the trouble. They're all assholes or have such horribly different life goals to my own (re: PARTY ALL THE TIME DOOD, WHY ARE YOU NOT BANGING ALL THE HOS) that I just can't be bothered.

>> No.27313952

>>27313864
>sex and gender is the same thing
Discussion over.
You lose.

>> No.27313958

>>27313949
>I'm not trying to be an edgy bastard

>> No.27313963

>>27313938
>>27313925

Yeah. I think it's mainly because that image of a succubus mechanic popped into my head, and then I was working out *why* a succubus would be a mechanic. And that's how it rolled.

I'll leave others to do more descriptive renderings, I think, though.

>> No.27313970

>>27313948
Right back at ya, Twatty O'Twatster

>> No.27313972

>>27313949
Eh, I know that feel champ, but there are diamond out in that rough. I got forcibly shoved into it at a certain point in my adolescence, and as reluctant as I was - and as much of a shite time I had sometimes - I cannot deny that it was worth it, if only for the knowledge and skills. There are always some people worth the while, even if you see them very rarely you stick to them.

Fuck, that was schmaltzy, but also very true.

>> No.27313977

>>27313963

I think my mental image of "succubus mechanic" just got stuck on kaylee from Firefly. As a succubus, but still with the same personality.

>> No.27313987

>>27313952
You're playing a different game to me, of course you'd think that.

>> No.27313989

>>27313987
autism

>> No.27313995

>>27313977
It's certainly where I got the idea of her bedded down right beside a big throbbing engine from.

>> No.27314001

There are absolutes but not when you are discussing a concept. Concepts are malleable. They change from culture to culture, due to the passage of time, due to socio-economic pressures, or based on the tightness of the perceiver's underwear.

Don't be a dumbass.

>> No.27314003

>>27313952
In some languages there are no separate words for sex and gender and cultures that have more than one gender.

Keep your ethnocentrism to yourself

>> No.27314016

>>27313989
Aaaaand the thread finally perished.

>> No.27314018

>>27314003
My native language is among those.
I assumed we could stay within the confines of the English language and terminology, though.

>> No.27314019

Sounds so... Oh... Fuck... Gotta change my pants.

>> No.27314023

>>27312269
Gender is the levels of femininity and masculinity, sex is the physical sex of the person.

Fuck what gender studies has done to my profession.

>> No.27314029

>>27314016
autism

>> No.27314397 [DELETED] 

Assburger

>> No.27314415

>>27313749
This character is kinda like the one I'm playing right now. While she is quite feminene, doting over children she has picked up or had, dressing pretty, and providing care for those in need, she is extremely domineering (extremely matriarchal).
While her goal is to spread love and warmth across the universe it entails spreading HER love and warmth across the galaxy, even if this means converting species into rabbit hybrids (don't ask) for her to control.
While enterprising it is normally in the name of passivity...i openly preach the ideals of passive income to my party (real estate and casinos being my current ventures)...
Lastly I don't know where this would fall into place but she is an unabashed slut, she likes sex probably more then she should, but she also has a soft spot for children and does care immensely for them.

>> No.27314580

>>27313234
>>27313691
>>27313809
>>27313856
>>27313890

Delivering

>> No.27314658

>>27314580

hnnngh

>> No.27314770

>>27314580
>>27314658

> tfw troll girlfriend

You can now sperg out I don't gave much fucks.

>> No.27314861

>>27312163
>>27312184

Succubuses

>> No.27314898

>>27314861
I thought the English language's official stance on the plural of Latin words was "I don't give a shit, do whatever you want" ?

>> No.27314947

>>27314770
>>27314580

10/10 would fuck

>> No.27315442

>>27314861
>Succubuses
Most dictionaries seem to disagree with you, as does my spell-check. (And even the ones that list succubuses also list succubi, so none of them agree with your correction.)

Only succubi:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/succubus
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/succubus
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/succubus
http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/succubus

Either succubuses or succubi:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/succubus
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/succubus

>> No.27316824

>>27313746
>ecause your theory fails to account for why the differences are so pervasive across all humanity, why they're so consistent, deep and irremovable?
[citation needed]

>>
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