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23755570 No.23755570 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why didn't the emprah bring back STC in the hundreds of years he was active during the great crusade?

>> No.23755588

Yeah, and what happened to all the books on scientific subjects? Were they possessed by daemons too?

>> No.23755643

>>23755588
>implying anyone will read books in the future.

>> No.23755661

>>23755570
There are lots of STCs on Mars. Most of them are seriously fucked up and aren't really that helpful, but the Admech also hoards the good stuff for itself.

>> No.23755669

>>23755643

What about all the knowledgable people? didn't they maybe write this shit down somewhere? Where did they all go?

>> No.23755719

>>23755661
>Most of them are seriously fucked up
That kind of defeats whatever point you were trying to make.
The Emperor should've been able to make a complete STC and spread them around, why didn't he?
>Admech also hoards the good stuff for itself.
Why would the Emperor allow a group like this to exist?

>> No.23755733

>>23755669
They died. Their students are still alive and are now the top dogs of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Problem is, their life extension tech sucks and blows at the same time, so the higher-ups are all insane and paranoid beyond the point that they are much help to anyone other than themselves.

>> No.23755781

>>23755733
>their life extension tech sucks and blows at the same time
Dreadnaughts say otherwise.

>> No.23755818

>>23755588
Pretty much, ya.

>> No.23755843

>>23755719
The point I was trying to make was that there are STCs on Mars. However, the STCs are rarely of much use, as they are more often than not damaged so that little useful information can be salvaged from them. The Emperor himself might have been able to make some decent tech that could rival that sometimes found in STCs, and he kinda did, but everything came falling apart after the Horus Heresy and the damage it left behind. Mars was in a civil war at the time, and many factories and projects were destroyed in the conflict.

The Emperor allowed them to exist because of reasons.

>> No.23755857

>>23755781
Dreadnoughts all steadily go insane or amnesiac, and they spend most of their time dormant to slow down the process. Life extension tech in the 40k universe does work--Eisenhorn was 800 and he was completely normal, except for how fucked he was because he had been shot by a Titan and had his ability to smile surgically removed--but for some reason it seems to drop the ball unless you're an Inquisitor.

>> No.23755869

The Empra is transhumanly intelligent, not perfect. The STC's were probably designed by Dark Ages AI. For all we know, the Empra himself is a "Mk 1 bipedal psychic beacon with self-defense functions" designed by Dark Age AI, instead of an ancient shaman hivemind.

>> No.23755897

It's safe to assume that the Admech intentionally stunted the intellectual community of 40k to consolidate their power. They jealously hoard knowledge, and yet paradoxically forbid invention (except to higher ranking members, or on Inquisitorial commission, etc, like that biologist who made the plague that killed that one hive fleet,) because they believe that all knowledge already exists somewhere in the galaxy or something.

If you're looking for sense, you're looking in the wrong place.

>> No.23755918

>>23755857
I thought he was around 400-500. That seems to be the point where diminishing returns kick in; the Admech might be able to go longer but it's not cheap, easy, to conducive to sanity.

>> No.23755926

>>23755781
No really, the High Lords of Terra and the Admech are stated to be completely mental because they've lived for so long with shitty tech to keep them alive that they really are insaner than most other guys in the galaxy.

>> No.23755952

>>23755643
>>23755669
>implying anyone reads books in 40k

Yes, even the Librarians.

>> No.23755962

>>23755843
There are INCOMPLETE STCs, which are totally different than COMPLETE STCs.
I don't know why you would think that when I talk about the emperor building a STC you think it would be incomplete.
The emperor is a supergenius who has used DAoTech for thousands of years, theres no reason he shouldn't be able to bring it back.

>> No.23755967

The deep infotombs are encrusted with viruses, new and old. Going down prospecting among the server racks is highly dangerous - sometimes you bring something back out and maybe it hijacks the city and needs to be purged from orbit.

So don't go down there unless you're desperate enough to risk losing a city or three.

>> No.23755988

He was busy. Oh and lolchaos.


Daemons ate/fucked/infected most of them.

>> No.23756011

>>23755988
>too busy to enlighten humanity with science

That's like the exact opposite of his stated characterization.

>> No.23756018
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23756018

>>23755570
>Why didn't the emprah bring back STC in the hundreds of years he was active during the great crusade?

Because 40k lore sucks and something like that isn't grimdark enough to make it into the lore.

>> No.23756027

>>23755869
>The Empra is transhumanly intelligent, not perfect
He doesn't need to be perfect to bring back technology that he has used for thousands of years.
>The STC's were probably designed by Dark Ages AI
Even if your fanwank is correct theres no reason the emperor couldn't build Dark Age AI.

>> No.23756035

>>23756018

/thread

Now if only people would remember this, we could maybe have less HAY LOOK I FOUND A PLOT HOLE IN 40K threads.

>> No.23756067

Well in the Horus Heresy books, both Prospero and Mars were fucked up really badly. It's funny, because they were really close to finding the source of knowledge for literally everything on Mars.

>> No.23756068

>>23755897
>If you're looking for sense, you're looking in the wrong place.
This.

>> No.23756069

>>23756035
>/tg/ shouldn't talk about warhammer fluff
fuck off.

>> No.23756089

>>23755570
STC?

>> No.23756106

>>23755962
I said that he did produce some really cool tech, but everybody else just forgot about it all after he became an all-powerful vegetable. And half the guys who were supposed to keep that shit under lock and key rebelled. The Fabricator-General and the Dark Mechanicus grabbed everything they could when they fucked off after the Battle of Terra and did their best to blow up what was left and that hadn't been blown up by the loyalists. There was even an invention that might have unlocked the total sum of all knowledge in the universe, and the loyalists blew it up rather than risk it fall into the hands of the traitors.

>> No.23756115

>>23756089
You could google it in the amount of time it takes to make a stupid post.

>> No.23756123

>>23756027
>Even if your fanwank is correct theres no reason the emperor couldn't build Dark Age AI.
The reason in the fluff is that he didn't want to. He sealed the Vaults of Moravec (forbidding AI research) and built SMs instead of Stone or Iron Men.
>He doesn't need to be perfect to bring back technology that he has used for thousands of years.
No-one understands the totality of everything that goes into an integrated circuit. No one in the world, though there are thousands of engineers who know the details of individual parts perfectly. We use those everyday.

This fits in perfectly with the Admech doctrine and their problems. To apply it backwards to the Emperor also makes sense.

>> No.23756163

>>23756123
No-one is a 50,000 year old psychic genius.

>> No.23756170

>>23756115
You could have answered it in the time it took you to reply.

>> No.23756198

>>23756089
>>23756170
It is Sexy Techpriest Chan, thats why there is OP's pic. It should have pic related.

>> No.23756204

Since the Emperor is immortal, has always occupied positions of influence, and had a vast underground research facility hidden in the Himalayas, you'd have thought he'd have kept at least some STC systems around in a sealed shelter or something.

>> No.23756206

>>23756115
People keep saying that. There is what? A 2 min time different between Anon1 and Anon2. So no not really, Google is probably the exact same effort level, but you can keep browsing /tg/ in the mean time.

>> No.23756218
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23756218

>>23756198
You shouldn't lie about things like that unless you want "More" weeabos in where.

>> No.23756222

>>23756069
>/tg/ shouldn't repeatedly ask questions which all have exactly the same, easily available answer

It's like you're going on /s/ and defending /r/ threads as an integral part of the board.

>> No.23756223

>>23756204
He did keep old tech lying around. He locked it up so that nobody could ever use it.

>> No.23756238

>>23756089
>>23756170
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Standard_Template_Construct_(STC)

>> No.23756255

>>23755781
Dreadnaughts are put on ice for centuries at a time and only trusted to murder things for precisely the reasons he just stated.

>> No.23756261

>>23756223
Are we sure the Emperor isn't Nurgle in disguise?

>> No.23756289

>>23756011
Just read any HH book. His stated characterization in those is Complete Retard.

>> No.23756293

>>23755719
Because he cut a political deal with them to get the factories of Mars in order to supply his great crusade.

>> No.23756296

>>23756261
Honestly, it was probably for the best. You know how retarded people are in the future.

>> No.23756317

>>23756223
>believe that SCIENCE is the only light for mankind
>systematically destroy all religion
>institute yourself as supreme overlord of SCIENCE
>make all the SCIENCE

>oh no one of your science-experiment super clone sons went insane because of space demons
>TIME TO FIGHT A GIANT SPACE WAR
>hide all the technology so only smart people can find it

>notice that the machines you made to make SCIENCE have broken
>decide not to fix them from literally anywhere in the cosmos with your impossible psychic mind god powers
>get stabbed because you chose personal drama with one of your test-tube babies over literally all of humanity
>watch as humanity, deprived of both science and religion, deifies your withered corpse on a throne and force-feeds you an absurd number of people per day

END RESULT: You're a corpse that has destroyed both science and religion, all as a result of your own poor judgement, and now you're forced to eat millions of people a day to keep your dead corpse 1% alive.

>> No.23756328

>>23756293
Why didn't he just conquer them like he did with the techno-barbarians?

>> No.23756331

>>23756289
It's either completely retarded or intentionally setting up a rebellion against himself. The authors can't agree on which it is.

>> No.23756348

>>23756331
>intentionally setting up a rebellion against himself
Thats completely retarded.
There are easier ways to turn yourself into a chaos god.

>> No.23756369 [DELETED] 

>>23756317
The forgot the part where he hid the existence of chaos from everybody because he believed he could fight it on his own.

>> No.23756374

>>23756328
He put time and effort into making the Admech happen. He caged the Dragon on Mars for that purpose. And he would also have had to start over with rebuilding everything there, which would postpone his crusade, and he was having none of that. Or the Admech would just have blown up half the star system.

>> No.23756384

>>23756331
>either completely retarded
>or intentionally setting up a rebellion against himself

So completely retarded either way you slice it, then?

It says something about the nature of 40k that the canon smartest man in the setting is completely retarded.

>> No.23756403
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23756403

>mfw implying he didn't

>> No.23756405

>>23756317
You forgot the part where he hid the existence of chaos from everybody because he believed he could fight it on his own.

>> No.23756408

>>23756374
>He caged the Dragon on Mars for that purpose

For what purpose, exactly? To make his best technologists all crazy, slowly turning into Necrons?

>> No.23756414

>>23756328
Would blow up the factories, cost him troops and give other factions such as the Interex time to stabilize and expand.

>> No.23756432

>>23756414
So he's fine with blowing up factories and wasting tropes on every other planet in the universe except mars?

>> No.23756447

>>23756408
Allegedly it was because he knew back in 1000 AD that there would be a bunch of technologically gifted people on Mars. He imprisoned the Dragon in a remote location on Mars so that it could influence the sapcefuture people into building cool shit without controlling all of them. It currently only controls some Admech guys, and the rest are just insane.

>> No.23756453

>>23756405
In fairness, that bit almost makes sense.

Chaos is fueled by belief, and if no one knows about it or believes in it, it's much weaker and easier to manage. His options were to tell everybody about it and make Chaos strong while raising an army to go in there and slap its shit, if he can, or to use his powers of being the BEST HUMAN EVER MADE and probably the only entity alive that could potentially control all of Chaos to do exactly that, thwarting it or bending it to humanity's gain.

The only way to beat an enemy that gets stronger the more people know about it is by not letting anyone know about it.

>> No.23756489

>>23756089

Don't even come into an Imperium orientated 40k fluff thread if you don't know what an STC is.

I mean what the fuck.

>> No.23756496

>>23756348
Not sure if that's what he's going for, but it seems as if he was trying to make some Primarchs join up with Horus. For example, he gave some very specific instructions to Perturabo that Perty thought odd but still carried out. The consequences of carrying out those instructions was turning Perty over to Horus' camp.

>> No.23756502

>>23756447
>hey, all this SCIENCE stuff I've been doing has been working out fine
>but you know what would be even better? If I grabbed Science-Cthluhu and got him super pissed by beating him up and locking him up forever on Mars so that he'll totally inspire and not at all drive mad all the people on that world

>Yeah. I'm pretty sure I get a gold star sticker for today.

>> No.23756511

>>23756432
>tropes
Alright I need to go to bed.

>> No.23756525

>>23756453
Chaos is fueled by emotion, whether or not you believe in it doesn't fucking matter.

>> No.23756598

>>23756525
I think his Imperial Truth schtick was going for the "keep calm and carry a towel" line of thinking. Basically, be rational and don't freak out over everything, and we'll probably get through this. Chaos reflects the collective emotional state of the creatures inhabiting the galaxy, so, if enough people are just keeping it cool, then the Warp would be a nicer place, maybe.

>> No.23756648

>>23755962
This.

STC's are incomplete.

If the Imperium had a complete STC, they could disband the Imperial Guard, and stick every Space Marine in a Total Annihilation-ish Commander and just use dumb slave-AI's for robots that follow the commands of the Commander.

>> No.23756653

>>23756496
>Not sure if that's what he's going for
Why else would he set up events that would lead to him being fused to the astronomicon and set up as the god of the Imperium if he wasn't planning on ascending to godhood?
The reason purged religion was to get rid of competition.

>> No.23756667

>>23756598
True.

The Warp grows with emotional turmoil.

Remember the Eldar CREATED demons with their psychic waves.

EVERYTHING about Chaos we can thank to prehistoric Eldar crying over their dead loved ones that were killed by Necrons.

>> No.23756697

>>23756598
The Imperial Truth was a lie, it encouraged the belief that there weren't gods and daemons who where looking to fuck up humanity, that they didn't exist.

Not only did the Emperor force people to put their heads in the sand but he was willing to kill anyone who didn't.

Thats the opposite of rational.

>> No.23756736

>>23756653
Kinda makes sense, but it seems it went bad somewhere down the road. He's currently in constant pain and is apparently quite sad to see what's become of humanity. And he actively stamps out worship of himself, so he doesn't really seem to want that, supposing it did him any good. Furthermore, it seems like he intended for Magnus to sit on the Golden Throne and power the Astronomican in his place. It's all one big mess, really.

>> No.23756781

>>23756697
Hey, if enough people just stick to carrying towels then things might turn out okay. I guess he thought that acknowledgement of gods and the like would just turn people away from that and eventually lead to the shit humanity's currently stuck in.

>> No.23756876

>>23756781
>Hey maybe if we say the enemy doesn't exist they won't use their influence in our country to fuck us up
Yeah, that worked great.
>>23756736
I don't see anything in your post about why the big E set himself up, so why did he do it?

>> No.23756920

Why do people instantly assume WITH EMPRAH, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE? Yes, 40k lore has its share of plot holes. Yes, the emprah is a super genius super psychic. That doesn't he can literally do everything, and it certainly doesn't mean he can literally do everything all at once in order to solve every problem ever simultaneously. He was a dude with large but finite capabilities who lived for a large but fininite amount of time. And it turns out that those large but finite capabilities were not sufficient to prevent the total fucking up of everything in that large but finite amount of time he lived.

Maybe he could have pulled an entire STC out of his ass after working on it for who knows how long (or found one, but it's entirely possible no intact one even exists). Maybe not. (Honestly, to suggest "why didn't someone just recreate every piece of human technical knowledge ever and put it into an artificially intelligent database capable of producing and modifying designs for common devices using that knowledge so SCIENCE COULD RULE SUPREME" as a solution is pretty fucking retarded to begin with.) But if he had spent all that time doing that, some of the things he actually did do wouldn't have happened instead. It's not like he took vacations.

>> No.23756924

>>23756876
>I don't see anything in your post about why the big E set himself up, so why did he do it?
No idea. Maybe he thought things would have turned out worse if he didn't, but that's just speculation. As I said, the whole thing is just a mess.

>> No.23757032

>>23756876
You're missing the point. He sought to calm the Warp by promoting an ideology that was supposed to emphasize rationality, as opposed to letting pure emotion rule actions. Yes, he was retarded and the entire thing blew up in his face, but if the alternative was telling the general populace that gods exist, then it might have turned out even worse. People were falling on their knees in reverence of him, so why wouldn't they do the same if they found out about some actual gods? Still, he could at least have told the Primarchs, since shit started getting real with those guys. All in all, it's not very thought through on the part of the writers.

>> No.23757094

>>23756648
>Hey remember when the Men of Iron killed us all and ended the first human empire? Let's do that again!

>> No.23757159

>>23756920
You know technological development is a surety right? Even if it's slow, even if we've lost knowledge, there has never been a time in our history when we haven't had technological development and the more knowledge you have at your disposal the faster the development gets.

But because thats not grimdark enough GM has made it so the Imperium has been losing tech constantly since the heresy(and even before that)

>> No.23757224

>>23757032
You're missing the point, even if the Imperial Truth had calmed the warp it would've lasted long enough to do anything of substance.

When you don't even know what Chaos is and that it's bad, its a easy easy thing to get corrupted by.

>> No.23757252

>>23756920
This. We don't know how knowledgeable the Emperor was in each scientific field. He's a fucking wizard before anything else, he was a warrior then, and a scientist third. We can suppose he knew is shit in genetic, though even that may have been made with the help of a team of experts. In other fields, who the fuck know ?

>> No.23757260

>>23757094
Men of Iron were smart AI, using dumb or non-learning AI isn't a threat.

>> No.23757370

>>23757252
>We don't know how knowledgeable the Emperor was in each scientific field
More knowledgeable than any other human being in history.

>> No.23757415

>>23757094
>>Hey remember when
Actually I don't. First thing the Emperor did after appearing out of a Golden Age of Mankind research facility/bunker that some badland raiders on terra were trying to loot was form a large army, conquer the earth and then systematically destroy all information about the previous eras (last church of terra) before he re-wrote history as he "remembered it".

>> No.23757468

>>23755588
Likely humans phased out paper, and whatever was left was destroyed in the fires of old night

>> No.23757625

>>23757415
>then systematically destroy all information about the previous eras (last church of terra) before he re-wrote history as he "remembered it".
It's for the best, Fearless Leader is best historian.

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