/tg/ - Traditional Games

Any game (expect Inquisitor) from GW is better than 40k

Because you'll never find more than one other player.

one of GWs beter ones (along side space hulk, blood bowl, and space crusade).

>>20495778
because it doesn't give GW money.

GW loves money so they don't advertise that game.

I haven't played in ages. Are Necrons still overpowered?

>>20495797

Yup.

>>20495797
as much as they should be.

i think imperium still is pretty awesome and nids still blow at spess combat

>>20495797
Necrons! Where you can table the other guy and STILL lose.

>>20495807
this is true.

that is their only weakness take out the big fucking ship you will win no matter what happens.

>>20495797
Last I checked, yes. But Orks got a pdf update from the independent guys managing Specialist Games now, and it makes them much more playable. Though still not 'top-tier', it does make playing against them more than an exercise in target priority.

>>20495815
Playing Necrons effectively is all about doing as much damage as you can (with your ludicrous rules and ships), and knowing when to disengage what ships, and knowing when you should be Bracing.

>>20495797
Only if you're not playing with VP. If you are, good luck winning when a single cruiser destroyed gives like, over 500 VP to the opponent. Heaven forbot you lose your Tombship; 1500 VP to your opponent. As well, iirc there's a rule about forced withdrawal if you take too many losses (which, at 1500 point game is like, losing 1 cruiser) so if you're not careful you can still lose automatically even if you take half the enemy fleet down with you.

>>20495818
Cool. As it happens I tried to scratchbuild/convert an Ork fleet. Maybe I'll get back to it in a few months. Or finish my DE fleet instead.

>>20495832
i know that. gotta love disengage.

well i took out all your ships. bye

>>20495833
Maybe I suck at BFG, but in my experience even the VP adjust could not rebalance this. They would just run circles around my ships raping everything.

>>20495833
Yes but you have to be a fucking idiot to just lose a cruiser in one round, without bothering to Brace it and get your 2+ BFI. Oh sure, your armor drops... but big fucking deal when the real threatening weapons are all mitigating your armor anyways. And even against firepower batteries, a 4+ armor with a 2+ BFI still beats a 6+ armor. (To those who don't know how BFG's armor system works, the armor rating of a ship, e.g. 6+, represents what your opponent's firepower needs to roll to potentially damage you).

>>20495778
Because you buy the starter box and that's all you need to basically play the game.

BFG works just as well whether you're controlling a vast battlefleet or just a single ship so there's no incentive to buy more. I mean yeah the other fleets are nice but even 4 Imperial cruisers versus 4 Chaos cruisers is a perfectly serviceable game.

Necrons should be updated to reflect the loss of their inertialess drives.

guaranteed responses

>>20495884

We've just been doing 1 battleship and 4 cruisers each. And it's still awesome.

>>20495874
Oh, I'm not saying that it's EASY to take down one of their cruisers or anything. I'm just saying that Necrons aren't as overpowered as a lot of people seem to think they are.

I really want to play BFG, but, alas, I'm a poor student who can't justify it.

>>20495868
No... You don't. For all the "Hurr I lost one necron ship, tabled you, and lost" arguments, the fact remains that a solid Necron player will easily keep his orders held back for BFI unless he needs to zoom to your unprotected backside. And he'll know how to mitigate his incoming damage and disengage ships before they get destroyed. It's not like the Necron fleet is brittle and fragile... Eldar with their 2+ holofield and right-shift against Firepower Batteries are fucking annoying as hell, but any hits against them and they crumble to dust or explode with a critical (4+). Necron ships are still tough as nails, with stupid amounts of firepower. The VPs adjustment is to give other fleets a chance against what is pretty much an undercosted and vastly superior foe. It's not impossible to beat them, but it's bloody fucking tough without the VP modifiers

>>20495874
bracing gives a 8% chance to take damage as opposed to the normal 16% when they aren't braced.

basically a giant fuck you to everything.

they are hard as hell to take down, they pack a punch and if they do go down they give the opponents a huge lead.

>>20495915
Vassal.

>>20495915

It's possibly the cheapest game GW have made. As >>20495884 said, a few cruisers vs a few cruisers is a perfectly serviceable game.

>>20495928
it's like 20 dollars for 2 cruisers and you can customize them to whatever you want and have a short fun game with someone else

ITT: Guys still playing with GW's rules

>>20495908
No, they're not really overpowered. Just excessively brutal. You can certainly win against them, but they were a fleet that was pretty much designed to rape the Eldar. And the Eldar were (and still are to a degree) the fleet that nobody has a right to bitch about it's failings, considering they take half the rules of the game and throw them out to make up their own.

>>20495940

Why wouldn't we? It's probably the best ruleset GW have ever made.

>>20495915
down load free rules and scratch build ships from your bits box. (or if you want to play DE then get a box of helions and you done)

>>20495925
Against Firepower, yes... it drops it to an 8% chance to mitigate the damage. But the real kicker is that it gives you that 2+ to mitigate pretty much anything that nullifies your armor. Perfect for hits against armor-cracking Lances.

New player here:

How the fuck do you tell the ships apart? I'm looking at the variant cruisers, and they ALL LOOK THE FUCKING SAME.

>>20495946
i was told epic was the best ruleset.
but i can't be sure cause i never read it or played it

>>20495946
Indeed, BFG is extremely good for Imperium vs Chaos. Anything else is a fucking clusterfuck of madness and stupidity.

>>20495930
>>20495928
Very well, you've convinced me.

>>20495998

Make sure you have someone to play with. Next to no-one still plays BFG.

>>20495961
Weapon fits, these being STC cruisers it's a matter of what weapons are on which hardpoints.

>>20495940
They're affected by rules creep and such but a game using just rulebook fleets is one of the most satisfying games I've played. Oh for the time when GW could write a one book game because they fucking nailed it here.

>>20495965
Epic is definitely the best, and in many ways the most balanced. It also portrays warfare in 40k the best, and reigns in Space Marines to do what they actually are supposed to do in fluff (surgical-knife strike force).

Gothic is however a very well written ruleset, but has some balance issues. Most notably was in it's initial release. Orks were long considered the 'e-z victory' fleet that nobody really had a problem against. While Eldar started off as the troll-tier fleet. Some erratas, additions to fleets, inclusion of things like Roks and Space Hulks, and the latest PDF rules errata, fixed most of that over time. Necrons also gave Eldar a troll-tier fleet to loathe. But the Orks got a lot in the way of points adjustment, ship and fleet customization, clan representation, and 4 Battleships + a Heavy Cruiser.

>>20495998
Or you can buy a ship and cast it. Avoid having to pay 20 bucks for a fucking cruiser each time you want something.

>>20496011
The Armada expansion, and the Errata PDF available off the Specialist Games forum, fix a lot of the later imbalances. Hell it makes Orks worth playing.

>>20496038
Funnily enough I know, last night I downloaded all the free documents. Now that the game is near enough done I'm considering buying a small fleet of each race and some scenery just for game nights.

Imperium
> Balanced fleet
Chaos
> Balanced fleet
Orkz
> HEY LET'S MAKE EVERYTHING RANDOM WITH SHIT RULES! Went better once GW understood that no, 2D6 battery should not be priced like 12 battery.
Eldar
> So, here are the rules. I don't play with them. Also, do you have long range battery? No? Okay, I win.
Necron
> Hey, I'm like Eldar but less. I only exist to troll Eldars and show that GW can do piss-ugly starships too.
Tau
> Give me paper and pencil, I don't have enough tokens for all my ordnance. Now, roll for anal circumference.
Tyranids
> Implying I'm playing and not rolling to see what my fleet does.

>>20496102
I know that feel. I've considered dusting off and polishing up my Ork fleet and adding to it now that they're a decent part of the game. But few (if any) play BFG in my area. Though Firestorm Armada is picking up in popularity.

>>20496143
I have a fair old Chaos fleet but I think spending the money on a new balanced fleet is better than shoehorning my main fleet in. My ultimate goal is that each fleet should be balanced enough that you can just grab one and go.

>>20495833
This is the second time I've heard this "forced to disengage" thing mentioned for Necrons, but I can't find any reference to it.

>>20496140
>Tau
Was that forgeworld or GW fleets?

>>20496296
GW. Forgeworld's fleet is more about Ion cannons and Railguns.

>>20496323
It also looks a hell of a lot better than GW's pewter fleet.

Well this is a coincidence. I read through the rules yesterday and decided that I probably need to start playing BFG. Only problem is I have to somehow sell my friends on it. I think I'm going to explain how it will be cool to work it into 40K campaigns, or something.

I've got some questions for you guys. First of all, how many ships do I need for a decent army? What's the equivalent of 1000-1500p in 40K?
Secondly, is it possible to buy the starter box or is that out of print? I can't find it on GW:s site.

>>20497157
There is no minimum but I'd suggest at least three cruisers, one escort squadron and a battleship if you want one. Cruisers are sold in boxes of two so add more if you fancy, they're also the most fun class of ship.

>>20497157
You might be able to find the starter set on e-bay, but good luck with that. Your best bet is get the rulebook and update PDFs online, then get your hands on the ship models.

Fleet size varies a bit, but 1500 and 2k are standard 'decent sized' games. The addition of something like a Battleship eats up ALOT of points, usually around 400-ish, with better ones eating up even more (*cough* battlebarge). Meanwhile Frigats tend to be between 20pts to 70pts a ship, based upon the frigate and the race.

Overall estimate is average fleet tends to be between 8 to 30 ships, with high end for something like swarms of ramships, and the low end being cruiser-spam.

>>20497200
>>20497220
Cool. Thanks. So if I and my friends get a Battleship, 3-4 Cruisers and a few smaller ships we're set, I guess. I've got all the rules already.

It's a shame that they don't sell the starter set still. I would have loved some tokens and stuff like that.

>>20497266
Yeah that should be fine, see if you can track down an old White Dwarf article written in semi-fluff about tactics, it makes a good introduction to how to actually play the game rather than just follow the rules.

Escort wise you may need more or less squadrons but I only really used one since Chaos get an escort speed cruiser that's good for running interference.

I've got about 4 Cruisers and 12 Cobra escorts and 6 Swords. I have never played a game...

>>20497369

Thats a lot of escorts. I'd run a list like that if I had the models.

>>20497369

I've read all about BFG online, and I'm always checking out the models on Ebay, but there's no game shops in my area and nobody I know plays. I'd love to find some people to play BFG with. Sounds far more appealing to me (I love the ships) than 40k.

>>20497220

Escorts are between 20-70 points? How would someone fair if they fielded like, 20-40 of them as their fleet in a 2000 point game? I'm thinking a mass of fast moving Cobras and Firestorms.

>>20497701

All it takes is one hit to destroy most escorts...that said i've seen it done to good effect. It just takes ages to move them all and not have them collide with each other. Ork ram ships in huge numbers is something i've wanted to do for a long time.

>>20498335

True, but wouldn't they be fast enough to evade most enemy torpedos while launching massive volleys of their own? Plus I'm thinking small lanceboats like Firestorms could pack enough punch while being mobile to hit the enemy.

I don't know really. I really wish I could play a game. Is there any sort of video game equivilent of BFG?

>>20496140
Tyranid instinctive behaviour is no problem to deal with. You use Hiveships to get around it which are our biggest toughest ships that we can take as many as we want of.

>>20497701
If you want to do an escort horde you'd probably be better looking at the Nids. They have some of the most (if not the most) point efficient ships in terms of fire power.

Really cheap too. GW does have proper BFG models for nids, but most gamers convert from 40k nid plastics. A single box of gaunts can be made into 30+ escort ships without much trouble.

>>20498335
>It just takes ages to move them all and not have them collide with each other.

ships can freely move and shoot "through" other ships (friend or foe)

>WHY DID NO-ONE TELL ME THIS GAME WAS SO GOOD.
Because all40kallthetime

I do love BFG.

Going to be dumping the core fleets, just in case someone can make use of them.

>>20503992
thank you kind anon

Played AM. Funny to have all sips so badasses, that rip Eldar sips in the British flag. But, agnes nids or orks it is some problem in stile "They have to sips for each my one!"

>>20504016
>>20503992
Wow. Imp ships are tiny. Thats a change

Sorry. Slightly distracted while I'm doing this.

Anyone want Necrons/space marines/random gubbinz too?

>>20504101

Sure.

Random gubbinz.

>>20504162
>>20504154
>>20504145
Got Tau?

Oh yeah, and Tau. They're a thing too.

That's the last one I got. Hope someone makes use of them.

There was a Vassal module for it but virtually no one was ever on it.

>>20504178


Thank you Anon, I might get into BFG

>>20504145
>>20503982
>>20503992
>>20504016
>>20504101
>>20504130

For refernce with these if you print them out they should be on 30mm or 60mm round bases (same as GW's small and large flying bases in 40k) Most ships are on the 30mm, large ships with 10+ HP and 3+ shields go on 60mm basses (Pretty much just Battleships and Grand Cruisers.)

>>20504178
>>20504162
>>20504154
>>20504145
>>20503982
>>20503992
>>20504016
>>20504101
>>20504130

For refernce with these if you print them out they should be on 30mm or 60mm round bases (same as GW's small and large flying bases in 40k) Most ships are on the 30mm, large ships with 10+ HP and 3+ shields go on 60mm basses (Pretty much just Battleships and Grand Cruisers.)

Guys I want to mix BFG with Epic, Space hulk and other game systems including the FF RPGs.
How do I go about this?

>>20504191
Glad they did someone some good. I play Tau in 40k, so I cut them out and put them on spare flying bases.


I would like to know if anyone else shares my feelings that the Eldar were kind of ruined in BFG? It seems that if they're techno-gods and so advanced like they're said to be in lore, they ought to have tougher and better ships, not just be a port of their 'glass cannon' ground forces.

>>20504202
Ah. Thanks.

>>20504178

I FUCKING LOVE YOU ANON. Seriously I am hugging you right now. You are a wonderful person and you smell lovely.

Do you have Dark Eldar or Nids Anon? I think they are the only ones missing besides the new Mechanicus ships.

>>20504251
Thank you. You are one of the many wonderful people on /tg/ I'm glad to a do a favor for.

>>20504269
I'm afraid I don't, but I might (maybe) be able to get them. Not tonight, I desperately need sleep, but if this thread is around in twelve hours, I think I can probably get them up.

For everyone crying about overpowered nids: try to use ordance. Braced necron ship is nothing but a bombardment ground. And surprisingly necrons don't have any bonuses to hit & run or boarding, so they will scream like bitches when your boarding crews will spread destruction through their ancient ships.

>>20504541
>overpowered necrons
speedfix

>>20504500

Thanks Anon. No pressure. I was only asking in case you had them but forgot. You have already done more than enough to earn reprieve.

And I am still hugging you. So if you are a little warmer tonight you know why.

>>20504269
I... might have... ?
Is this one of them?

>>20505268

That was the only one I had...

>>20505268 Yeah, dark eldars have only two ship classes, but they can play with their equipment.

For everyone who wants to play BFG over vassal, join the goddamn EOT campaign. Most of the players literally never read a single page of neither the BFG rulebook nor the 40K rulebook before the whole thing started.

Forum, battle reports and shit here:
http://eot.grognarnia.org/discussions
4chan thread here:
>>20501677

The IRC is
server: irc.thisisnotatrueending.com
channel: EOT

If you don't know shit about vassal, IEC, BFG or 40k, ask and someone will point you towards where to learn.

>>20504183
From what I gathered, most of the people who use it are either playing the capaign or they hung out on vassal, saw us play and joined in after asking some questions.

>>20499165
> Is there any sort of video game equivilent of BFG?
Once upon a time work was started on a Homeworld 2 mod.

>>20506093
There is also a mod for star wars: empire at war.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VE_nV-5Svc

>>20506093
homeworld 2 has some great mods out there.

>>20506243
This is bullshit. Because star wars: empire at war is an absolutely shit, not a game.
There were one god like BFG mod for Sins Of A Solar Empire.Entrenchmen. But, with all thats game updates it became unplayable. And all problem is in graphics. It just don't show new models. It looks like all fleets turn on shadowfileds. And the worst, during building time all models work normal.

>>20506340
Empire at War was alright. Heck I'd reinstall it if it worked on my pc =( I think the problems it suffered from were the AI and the fact that the battles got a bit repetitive after a while. But Homeworld is the only true space RTS for me. Damn it i need to get gameranger working again =(

>>20506340

I enjoyed Skirmish mode in Empire at War, never played anything else.

But the benefits to doing BFG in that system is that it allows the Planet Killer to actually kill planets.
Plus you could then do a mod for the ground combat sections that turn it into Epic Armageddon.

>>20506340
>This is bullshit. Because star wars: empire at war is an absolutely shit, not a game.

You can't form sentences and you can't form an opinion.

You are less than a person.

You are detritus, scum accumulating at the bottom of peoples' feet.

Empire at War is a great idea with middling execution. This does not make it 'shit'. It's the best way to pretend to be a High Lord of Terra waging war on Chaos-infected traitors.

a nice system would be something like empire at war for map, homeworld for spees battles and DoW for obvious reasons. All in 1 game of course.

>>20506478
Yea? And see, how goddamn BIG battleships shoot each other from a distant of pistol range?
Fuck you, and this bullshit.
Star wars is too stupid for Warhammer 40K. And empire at war is the worst game for BFG mod. It gameplay is horrible, and mechanics absolutely sucks.
Best game for BFG mod is Homeworld. May be Sins Of A Solar Empire. It at least has normal tactics.

>>20506637
>Star wars is too stupid for Warhammer 40K.
Even as a 40k fanboy this made me laugh.
I love the setting to death but even I can see how retarded it is.

>>20506637
>how goddamn BIG battleships shoot each other from a distant of pistol range?
Wait, are we talking about Star Wars or 40k in this sentence?
They both do that.

>>20506690
Not really, no. At least they get the distance involved in space fighting right.

Pic related, macrocannon shells take a half an hour to reach their targets. Also, yes, imperial macrocannons are railguns that also use anti gravity technology.

>>20506743
Well, it's a bit schizophrenic, sometimes they get the ranges right and sometimes they ram the enemy ship.

>>20506637
The point of Empire at War is that it has ground and space battles. That's why it's good.

If you judge a product that provides a range of features by only one of those features (and potentially the worst feature) you're going to get an unrealistic judgement of that product.

Warhammer 40k has been waiting for an Empire at War style game for years now. One day it will happen. And it shall be a glorious day.

And you are just scumtime. You are soooooo scum. Don't even bother spewing out any more scum about how things I like are bad.

>>20506743
So does the weapons barrel move into the airlock when it fires?

Always thought it would be cool to do a campaign involving both Battlefleet Gothic and Epic/40k.

>>20506765
It actually makes sense in context. Especially when you take imperial navy ships who use armoured prows - they can withstand the fire and get close enough to ram the fuck out of you and then send in the stormtroopers to finish the job.

Generally speaking, when ramming does happen in 40k, it's either a group of ships made for that exact puirpose or they need to use some kind of dickery and just as planned to get close enough to ram.

I know from BFG that pulling off a ram is fucking difficult, but pulling off a boarding action isn't, if you have the right ships for it.

>>20506791
>So does the weapons barrel move into the airlock when it fires?
I dunno, probably. Either that or pic related.

>Always thought it would be cool to do a campaign involving both Battlefleet Gothic and Epic/40k.
It's not like there's one going on right now or something.
Oh, wait
>>20505965

>>20506806
Well, to board another ship, you just have to be near them and teleporters, boarding pods, and landing shuttles will do the rest for you, but a ramming action means you have to actually hit them with a massive, poorly maneuvering missile.

>>20506766
If they did it in such horrible way, it will be the last 40K game ever. Idea looks god. BUT! If planet assault is a single battle, land operation has scale of Final Liberation company! It's impossible to put it both in one game in full scale. And do you want to play in so strange game, were month war company compressed in one skirmish site battle?

>>20506743

Not really canon, but cool nonetheless.

>warspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres andwarspheres and