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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6253603 No.6253603 [Reply] [Original]

Hundreds of billions of dollars spent and over a hundred years of research, but the mechanism of cancer is still unknown. What would you say is the problem?

>> No.6253635

> the mechanism of cancer is still unknown
no it isn't. We know a great deal about how cancer develops and progresses. The problem is how to effectively prevent/combat it without destroying the rest of the body.

>> No.6253655

>>6253603
we know tons about cancer, wtf are you talking about

>> No.6253672

>>6253603
>but the mechanism of cancer is still unknown.

I believe the root causes of something like 90% of all cancers afflicting humans have been identified at this point (be it chemical exposure, viral, genetic or something else). The hard part is applying that knowledge to treating the cancers.

>> No.6253676

>>6253655
>>6253635
No we don't. We are literally at a loss as to why, between two nearly identical people, one gets cancer and dies at 47 and the other lives a full life.

>> No.6253678

>>6253672
Yeah but say two people get a dose of radiation that gives them 100% chance of cancer within 20 years.

One might get the cancer, and the other doesn't. WHY?

>> No.6253679

>>6253678
>100% chance of cancer
>doesn't get cancer
must have been a 99.999...% chance

>> No.6253713

>>6253676
Because mutations are a stochastic (i.e. random) process. A cell becomes cancerous if it accumulates a certain set of mutations, and additionally it must survive your immune system long enough to multiply and form tumors.

Your lifestyle, genetics, etc thus determine your *probability* of getting cancer, but whether or not you actually get it will be random.

>> No.6253715

>>6253676
You clearly know jack shit. That would be true of say, Type 1 diabetes or alzheimer's, but not cancer

>> No.6253992

>>6253679
LEL

>> No.6254081

>>6253603
Says a person that thinks that cancer is a single disease with a single cause and should therefore have a single cure.

>> No.6254419

Medical researchers generally agree that at least 90% of cancers are due to environmental factors. Now, most carcinogens do not affect DNA directly so they need some sort of mechanism to affect the cell and damage DNA. Now, can any of you tell me what is the actual causal relationship between the contact with a carcinogen and the eventual simultaneous development of gene checking mechanisms failures, anti-growth signals failures and cell aging failures? Because any of those individually would result in cell death so "accelerated mutation rates" is a ridiculous explanation.

>> No.6254498

>>6253713
I see.

Do ants get cancer? Or polar bears? Or worms?

Why would those genetic mutations affect more humans than other species?

>> No.6254500

>>6254498
*random genetic mutations

>> No.6254506

I've seen multiple claims and studies about THC causing apoptosis in most forms of cancer. Is this true or bullshit?

>> No.6254519

>>6254419
Yeah, some viruses cause cancers, so it's not one specific disease.

>> No.6254527

>>6254498
>more humans
since we can do things which us a higher chance of cancer.

Eat some food which is terrible for body? Who gives a shit, it tastes great. Fast forward 30 years HOLY FUCK WHY DO I HAVE STOMACH/COLON CANCER.

Animals also do get cancer, but they usually don't do as much shit that can cause cancers as humans do.

>> No.6254563

We need to use more money.

>> No.6255130
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6255130

>>6253603

Tycoonists are the problem.

"No profit in a cure."

Roughly 13,028,000 in the US have been diagnosed with some form of cancer.

Chemotherapy roughly costs $10,500 a month.
Individuals go through chemotherapy from 4-18 months even longer, but let's be generous here and go with 4 months of chemo.

$45,598,000,000 Gross Profit a month.

Plus they have no competitors, and they are really the only ones doing any of the research.

>> No.6255153

>>6253678

I'm almost positive that a dose of radiation that would guarantee cancer in the next decade or so would probably kill you within a couple of days from poisoning. What type of radiation are we talking here?

>> No.6256229

>>6253603
There will never be something as the "cure" of cancer. Or do you think that it is also possible to move objects with the power of your mind, if it was researched?

>> No.6256290

>>6255130
This. As cynical as it is, it's true.

>> No.6256299
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6256299

>>6254081

What this guy said

>> No.6256377

>>6256229
What are you talking about? If you stop aging in a cell, you can do the opposite.

The issue is figuring out how to spread the antitoxin/cell destroyer to the cancer cells alone.

>> No.6256380
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6256380

>What would you say is the problem?

Fucking slimy, vicious Jew doctors.

>> No.6256520

>>6256299
So cancer is like a cold but way more serious?

>> No.6256583

>>6254498
The amount of people confusing their own lack of knowledge or understanding with insightfulness is astounding.

>> No.6256713

Cancer is very ancient mechanism to grow tissue. Think about fungal spores, mold, etc.
Its like Plan B for cells experiencing stress/damage. Its your own tissue so its hard to mount immune response to cancers.
Cancer industry is huge, they don't need any form of cure because cancer is extremely profitable in every case.

>> No.6256807

>>6254498
>ancers are due to environmental factors. Now, most carcinogens do not affect DNA directly so they need some sort of mechanism to affect the cell and damage DNA. Now, can any of you tell me what is the actual causal relationship between the contact with a carcinogen and the eventual simultaneous development of gene checking mechanisms failures, anti-growth signals failures and cell aging failures? Because any of those individually would result in cell death s
We live longer basically, cancer is the accumulation of multiple mutations in host DNA. there is also other reasons however.

>> No.6256821

>>6256377
not quite, if you stopped aging of the cell you'd get a lot more issues.... cells will accumulate DNA damage in protoonco genes => cancer

>> No.6257004 [DELETED] 
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6257004

The only cause of Cancer is the severe lack of Oxygenation which result in the metabolic shift from oxidative phosphorylation to altered glycolysis. The highly Acidic environment then causes specific damages to DNA and cell functioning. It fits with all the risk factors:
Smoking
Fills the respiratory system with dirt which prevents oxygen exchange
Obesity
Fat accumulation stops normal circulation of oxygen
Aging
Reduces arterial oxygen saturation
Etc.
Also, you can simply observe in your own laboratory that all cells with severe hypoxia become cancerous.
You're Welcome
t. Nobel Prize winning scientist.

>> No.6257024
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6257024

The only cause of Cancer is the severe lack of cellular Oxygenation which results in the metabolic shift from oxidative phosphorylation to altered glycolysis. The highly Acidic environment then causes specific damages to DNA and cell functioning. It fits with all the risk factors:
Smoking
Fills the respiratory system with dirt which prevents oxygen exchange
Obesity
Fat accumulation stops normal circulation of oxygen
Aging
Reduces arterial oxygen saturation
Etc.
Also, you can simply observe in your own laboratory that all cells with severe hypoxia become cancerous.
You're Welcome
t. Nobel Prize winning scientist.

>> No.6257809

>>6254498
The only animal I've heard of that does not get cancer is the naked mole rat. You can't even induce cancer in the little buggers.

>> No.6257878

>>6257809
the last i read the naked mole rats have a sugar that builds up between their cells, something they use to allow long term fasting, that leaves space between them for white cells to get in and fight. So, their cells turn cancerious same as anyones but it never gets out of hand like in other animals; never gets large enough to detect.
Heres a layman level link.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/06/naked-mole-rat-cancer/

>> No.6257935
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6257935

>>6253603
>>6253676
OP OBVIOUSLY ISN'T FROM THE SMARTEST CHART BUT THE QUESTION IS WHY WE STILL DON'T HAVE IT ALL FIGURED OUT WITH MONEY

>> No.6257942

>>6257024
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor_hypoxia
This means that when the tumour gets too large it won't be able to get a sufficient amount of oxygen to all of its cells. If I understand correctly, a severe lack of oxygen doesn't lead to the creation of a cancer cell, but if it occurs to pre-existing cancer cells it will change their phenotype.

>> No.6257945

>>6253678
>my theory doesn't fit reality
>WHAT IS WRONG WITH REALITY???

evidently it's not 100% if there are exceptiosn

>> No.6257957

>>6253603
>What would you say is the problem?
Part of the problem is being able to examine the inner workings of a living thing without killing it, therefore destroying the very thing you're trying to examine.

>> No.6258016

>>6257942
You should've just read the article, it says:
"With decreases in the rate of mitochondrial oxidation, lactate and protons begin to accumulate. Interestingly, high levels of glycolysis and the production of lactate, as shown in hypoxic tumor cells, is hallmark of cancer cells even in the presence of oxygen."

Actually the cure of cancer has already been discovered:
"The chemical dichloroacetic acid (DCA), which promotes respiration and the activity of mitochondria, has been shown to kill cancer cells in vitro and in some animal models.[9] The body often kills damaged cells by apoptosis, a mechanism of self-destruction that involves mitochondria, but this mechanism fails in cancer cells where the mitochondria are shut down. The reactivation of mitochondria in cancer cells restarts their apoptosis program.[10] "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_hypothesis

>> No.6258081 [DELETED] 

>>6258016
Do you have the article link? That's really interesting. I start my cancer biology module next term, or the term after that (I'm not too sure). Thanks for clearing that up though.

>> No.6258106

>>6258016
>>6257024

You said lack of cellular oxygenation causes cancer, then you say mitochondrial oxidation is similar between cancer cells with and without sufficient oxygenation.

And DCA isn't necessarily the cure because human and animal models can vary significantly, and it doesn't say DCA reactivates mitochondria, only that it promotes respiration and activity of mitochondria (which we would assume are still functioning).

>You should've just read the article
You should have read the "article", instead of just copying and pasting without understanding.

>> No.6258210

>>6255130
This. OP, you answered yourself.

>> No.6259089

>>6258210

6255130 here.

Yeah Hi anon, news flash I'm not OP...

>> No.6259220

>>6253603
going to the doctor at the wrong time

>> No.6259230

>>6253603

> Why would you cure something that makes you tons of money through treatment?

Get a load of this. There is no cure to cancer for the same reason there is no cure/prevention of acne, there is to much money to be made through drawn out treatment.

>> No.6259245

>>6253715
Dude, eating wheat causes Alzheimer's, duh. And Statins.

>> No.6259254

>>6256807
Why don't trees get cancer?

>> No.6259255

>>6256520
Not at all.

>> No.6259256

>>6259230
but there totally is a cure for acne. It's called washing your face.

>> No.6259262 [DELETED] 

signed long)group_info->blocks[i]);eed to divert funds into something more profitable since cancer is looking to be incurable

>> No.6259265
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6259265

>>6259256
If you're not going to be serious then why say something at all?

>> No.6259268

If we're to progress, we ultimately need to divert funds into something more profitable since cancer is looking to be incurable

>> No.6259283
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6259283

>>6257024
>>6258016
>Wikipedia as source

>> No.6259284

>>6259268
It's more likely that the "cure" for cancer is going to be some sort of perpetual treatment by nanobots in our bloodstream.

>> No.6259286

>>6259283
go back to middle school

>> No.6259290

Death cures all cancers. I think that will be the preferred solution when national health care starts running out of resources.

>> No.6259296

>>6253603
You will never find the cure killing the cells in your body, only homeopathic medicine and natural alternatives will cure it.

>> No.6259300

My Dad has the beginning stages of Colon cancer

He eats healthy, is really /fit/, etc.

Why without the factors of environment would he have it?

He has worked construction for about 22 years though.

>> No.6259318

>Cancer is the cure to life and the cure to death

>> No.6259319

>>6255130
But then, the CEO of a pharma company could get cancer, or his daughter could get cancer, or his wife. Unless they're somehow keeping a cure secret, they're just as much affected by it as the rest of us.

>> No.6259326

>>6259319
>Unless they're somehow keeping a cure secret
You are beginning to understand.

>> No.6259331

>>6259296
lol this is what people really belive

>> No.6259333

>>6259300
>He has worked construction for about 22 years though.

Sounds like he's be inserting asbestos into his rectum and beyond.

>> No.6259341

>>6259326
Well you'd have to pay off an awful lot of people. Let's say you cure your daughter, but then her best friend or fiance gets cancer. "Oh hey I know a guy who can get you the cure!" Or let's say the physician says "This violates my oath to withhold the cure from the entire world."

>> No.6259347

>>6259333
We tracked down is work history and such over a few months and ruled that out as a possibility.

>> No.6259350

>>6259331
There is a reason in he first place we have so much cancer lately and its because everything we consume are pure chemicals, nothing it's natural.

Same goes with medicine, it will cure nothing with those toxic vaccines and drugs, people are beginning to realize this and the sooner medschools teach about natural alternatives and homeopathic medicine the better.

>> No.6259353

>>6253713
Sooo, epigenetics?

>> No.6259355

>>6259353

>epigenetics

there we go again with the bullshit

>> No.6259360

>>6259355
Explain why is bullshit.

>> No.6259366

>>6259355
Why?

>> No.6259385

>>6259355
Dismissing things as "bullshit" is even less in the spirit of science than being casually interested in an eccentric, unproven theory such as epigenetics. Tsk tsk.

>> No.6259389

>>6259385
>unproven theory

Y-you can just say hypothesis, anon-kun

>> No.6259396

Viral cancers are fucking creepy. Viruses can infect a person with cancer, grab the cancer-causing DNA segment, integrate it into their own genetic information, spread into more people and insert the cancer-causing gene into infected cells, causing cancer. This gives the virus more cells to infect and reproduce in.

There's so many different ways to get cancer.

I'm a particular fan of research that involves tagging cancerous cells for immune system attacks. I don't have the paper on hand, but I recall the treatment reducing cancer masses and being effective where standard chemo therapy was useless.

>> No.6259411

>>6259385
>>6259389
>Implying you can prove a hypothesis or theory
Isn't that one of the main points of the scientific method?

>> No.6259417

>>6259411
lol ya. You can only support it or disprove it.

>> No.6259552
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6259552

>>6259254

>tfw they do

>> No.6259555
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6259555

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Rife

Anyone hear about the Rife Beam?
Just another example of government corruption and lobbyists. (Drug companies.)

>>>/pol/

>> No.6259558

>>6257024

Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice – now for humans.

Said to increase intracellular communications with the mitochondria and the nucleus.

I feel it is very relevant to what the
>Nobel Prize winning scientist
is saying...

>> No.6259562

>>6259558

Link?

Capcha: deficits xcuresp

>> No.6259563

>>6259319

ho there captain obvious

>> No.6259564

>>6259562
>>6259558

Mi dispiace.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/nov/28/scientists-reverse-ageing-mice-humans

>> No.6259572

>>6257024

How about radiation? How does that come into play?

At it's roots, cancer is a cell going through mitosis incorrectly. Apparently oxygen has a large role in cancer period.

How does radiation effect oxygen transfer between cells?

>> No.6259601

>>6253603
cancertutor.org

>> No.6259618

>>6259555
the only anon who got the correct answer.

>why don't we have a cure for cancer?
muh big evil pharma companies!

>> No.6260566

>>6259300

Has he ever smoked in his past?
Have his eating habits always been what they are currently?
What exactly are his eating habits? Does he ingest a considerable amount of meat?
Has he worked in the presence of radiography?

>> No.6261282

>>6259618

He's not wrong though lol.
As cynical as it is, it's true.

>> No.6261299

>>6254498

Animals don't really live long enough to get cancer.

Also much less carcinogenic life styles then us. Wouldn't be surprised if rates are increasing near civilised areas though.

>> No.6261301

>>6255130

Some companies give away free disease vaccines to poor countries though.

(Unless that is their cover)

>> No.6261307

>>6257024

>doesnt know about oxidative damage

>> No.6261311

>>6259268

You realize we've made huge progressions in understanding and treating cancers right?

>> No.6261370

>>6253603
Identifying cancer cells as such and developing a system that can discriminate against those cells and render them harmless by preventing replication.
Congrats, the whole problem

>> No.6261374

>>6253678
>100% chance of cancer
You don't understand probability

>> No.6261387

>>6256377
>There will never be something as the "cure" of cancer.
Anon was right in this. Its like saying there'd be a cure for lost limbs(of course prosthetics and replacements, but the condition would still exist.)
Also this.

>> No.6261394

>>6257024
>The only cause of Cancer is the severe lack of cellular Oxygenation
Please shut the fuck up.
Oxidization(if this is what you even meant) is not the only means of damaging a cell's DNA replication sequences(what causes cancer)

>> No.6261395

>>6253676

>we

You mean you

>> No.6261397

>>6253678
>One might get the cancer, and the other doesn't. WHY?

Because you just made up that scenario?

>> No.6261398
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6261398

why it isn't psoriasis described as a form of cancer??

Pls just try to give us chemo for fucks sake. we hate this dammit dust

>> No.6261416

>>6261398
because its pathology doesn't include mutation to DNA, mostly. also it doesn't metastasize like cancer does.

take your Humira and chillax, bro.

>> No.6261424

>>6261398
I have great insurance, but they're lame about biologicals for psoriasis. Retail is 40k, they'd charge me 13k, per year. I found a drug called amlexanox. It stops itching completely if you take it 3x per day. It's FDA approved, and a TNF-alpha inhibitor like the biologicals, but its not domestically available in tablet form. You can get it from Japan for ~$180 month for Sol-fa tablets, through Mimaki. You can get the raw powder from China for ~$30 a month through suppliers on Alibaba. You need to take it mixed with something fatty, like peanut butter, or it will give you bad diarrhea.

>> No.6261429

>>6261424
>>6261398

Oh, and don't drink or take acetaminophen with it. My liver enzymes were scary high because I did both during the first month. They improved aftewards.

>> No.6261497

There are many mechanisms at work that can lead to many different kinds of cancer. Some types of cancer are curable with early diagnosis. My dad had very early prostate cancer, so he got rid of his prostate and no more cancer. Surgery of that kind is not a minor thing, but we know how to do it. Expect to see medical science steadily develop treatments for different types of cancer until only the toughest and most advanced cases are lethal.

>> No.6261635

>>6253603
You're a tad late my friend. They've identified the mutation that causes cancer by giving variables of DNA to a game community (I forget which game, because I read the article a few months ago) and after months of combinations of DNA strands, the community successfully identified the core cause of cancer.
Go look up the articles about it. Can't remember what it's called, but I'm sure you'll find something.

>> No.6261648

a partial explanation is the war on drugs repressed cannabis research, in Tel Aviv a lot of interesting research is happening showing CBD's contribution to cancer immunity

>> No.6261665

Is cancer caused by aneuploidy or mutation?

http://www.nature.com/scitable/content/on-the-road-to-cancer-aneuploidy-and-14018989