[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 278 KB, 432x432, davinci_transhuman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4948084 No.4948084 [Reply] [Original]

what does /sci/ think of transhumanism?

>> No.4948088

we think it's not /sci/ related and you should fuck off to either
>>>/lit/ - literature
or
>>>/b/ - philosophy

captcha: ngtesase philosophy

>> No.4948097

>>4948088
>implying the singularity has nothing to do with science and technology...

>> No.4948105

>>>>/b/ - philosophy

I lol'd.

>> No.4948109

I'm sick and tired of trannies and their drama.

>> No.4948111

>>4948088
>implying transhumanism isn't science related
You just went full autist.

>> No.4948112

>>4948088
>>>/b/ - philosophy
Wut?

>> No.4948127

>>4948084
We can't count on natural evolution anymore.
Transhumanism seems like a proper next stage of our development.

>> No.4948138

>>4948097
>>4948111
>it mentions technology and science, therefore it belongs here
get the fuck out of here. this board for real science. just because it's tangently related does not mean it belongs here. do you think sci-fi movie analysis belongs here too?

>>>/x/ - psuedoscience and scary shit

>> No.4948145

before this thread devolves into people arguing over how legitimate trans-humanism is.

it is real,
>http://gizmodo.com/5916720/bionic-eyes-are-totally-a-thing-come-2013

and it will come faster than you think.

it really is inevitable, but the outcome is in the air.

either we use our new bodies and minds to more efficiently kill each other, or we ascend to something over humanity.

>> No.4948153

>>4948138
Chill dude.

Transhumanisms is about science. You don't apply ouja boards into human body afterall.

>> No.4948154

>>4948145
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dicotomy

>> No.4948168

>>4948154
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dicotomy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backfire_effect

>> No.4948172

>>4948154

that doesn't have anything to do with my post at all and you should be ashamed of yourself.

>> No.4948173

I like the idea of it, but don't see it really happening in my lifetime. I mean, I understand that we have robotic limbs and even devices that can allow us to see when blind, but I don't think we'll be upgrading our brains anytime soon.

>> No.4948174

>>4948168
Hahahahahahahaha BOOOOOOM! Headshot!

>>Rest of thread
Fascinating concept, an eventuality that will come, imagine there will be some unforeseen hurdles in the future though. Still, no reason we can't improve the genetics or supplement it with technological constructs. What exactly do you want to know/discuss?

>> No.4948187

>>4948173
I see increases in intelligence and technology as something that will accelerate, and increase the pace of progress synergistically, I see the next 2-3 decades as something that's going to be "slow", but afterward it'll go forward at a very fast pace.

I'm certain there will be roadblocks & obstacles - but we'll get there.

>> No.4948190
File: 267 KB, 960x1280, 1343917367606.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4948190

We need to make sure we're worthy of being men before we make ourselves gods.

I'm sorry for sounding pretentious, or edgy, but as a species we've been here before: during the height of the Industrial Revolution.

Back then we also believed technology to be the end-all of our development, and that it would lead us, in a linear fashion, to abundance and prosperity.

Those optimistic notions caught a proverbial case of trench-foot in World War 1 and came back the way they should have gone into that conflict: skeptical.

We need to be careful about this kind of thing, if we aren't it could end very, very badly.

>> No.4948191

Copernican Revolution is needed for a singularity imo. Current system is too slow.

>> No.4948192

>>4948173
It depends on what you understand as transhumanism. For example : we have already plenty of people consisting in more than 50% of artificial organs and materials, right ?

>>4948174
Not OP, but...
...i think it's not the matter of "can", but rather "must". I think that natural evolution of the Mankind is too slow - our minds need better, less flawed bodies.

All those atavisms, needs of our hardware... Bleh...

>> No.4948196

>>4948190
There is nothing sacred about us. We are the product of random chance. Approach things with caution and pragmatism, we'll be fine. No need to give this or any other topic special consideration.

>> No.4948197

>>4948190
> We need to make sure we're worthy of being men before we make ourselves gods.
How about we do what we can and hope that most of flaws will simply cease to be on the way ?

>> No.4948204
File: 312 KB, 900x851, prometheus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4948204

>>4948196
I never claimed any sort of sanctity, or sacred right to the human form; I'm simply asking that we take a step back, act like the men of progress we all like to think we are, and approach this with the dogmatic skepticism we approach everything else.

If anything, it's the optimists who are giving this special consideration.

>>4948197
I don't put much faith into "hope."

>> No.4948207

>>4948168
learn what something actually is before trying to apply it.. how exactly was that reprensentative of my case
>either we use our new bodies and minds to more efficiently kill each other, or we ascend to something over humanity
was truly a false dichotomy

>> No.4948210

>>4948192
> our minds need better, less flawed bodies
Our minds are far more flawed. Our emotions, our need to belong, and our being prone to a "us against them" mentality makes us incredibly destructive.

It's always mentioned that we'll be able to overcome those things, but the fact is that it's built into us.

>> No.4948211

>>4948197
but you don't know that

>> No.4948219

Real aspects relevant to transhumanism:
>The development from CLI -> GUI -> NUI -> OUI
>Artifical intelligence
>Cognative science
>Cybernetics

Things not to talk about:
>The Singularity
>The Matrix
>Free Will

>> No.4948220

>>4948204
Perhaps I give us too much credit... But I presume that, beyond speculation and fancy and pop-sci... That that would be included as part of the package.

Our scientists are not idiotic children. Say nothing of our politicians or our general populace. I am not one who thinks we ever need to "put something back in the box" - it doesn't bother me that nuclear bombs or power exists. Now, what does bother me is that nuclear power is relatively easy to access, sure. But it's existence or it's discovery is not something I mourn.

Good choice on Promethius as a pic at least :P.

Tired/not primary English speaker - forgive my words.

>> No.4948221

>>4948197
I think thats the definition of making men more than what we are, to say that were not worthy of being ourselves

>> No.4948223

>>4948211
We didn't know plenty of things before we tried it. There was a possibility that first Nuclear Explosion would trigger the chain reaction that'd burn whole atmosphere and/or probably the rest of universe as well.

>>4948210
> Our minds are far more flawed.
Most of such flaws are hardware-dependand. Think about "magic pills" - how effective they are.

>>4948204
> I don't put much faith into "hope."
Me neither. It's simplification of "let's just do it and see what happens".

>> No.4948224

>>4948219
The matrix plug in like jack is possible atm. Its used in testing phase right now for communicating with paralyzed patients. They pug in a wire to a patient's head and the patient slowly learns to control her thought so that they can control the computer via thought. Its been done plenty of times on monkeys, and just now in the stage of testing on human patients

>> No.4948228

>>4948207
> was truly a false dichotomy
Naaaaah. You're simply biased towards the topic and that's all.

Unbiased people discuss, present arguments. Biased - mark the flaws and call it bs.

>> No.4948229

>>4948228
pointing out the flaws in an argument =/= calling the conclusions bullshit. I'm not biased against the topic, i actually don't even really care about it. You just said something stupid and i called you out on it, move on.

>> No.4948231

>>4948196
but you don't know that

>> No.4948232

>>4948223
>>4948211
i said that to the wrong guy

>> No.4948233
File: 19 KB, 267x274, 1299581406696.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4948233

>>4948231

>> No.4948237

>>4948229
> 'm not biased against the topic
Then discuss it. Present arguments, show some manners instead of
hurrrr durrr, wikuphedia linkh
PLEASE.

>> No.4948239

>>4948084
>transhumanism
Buzz word that produces incredibly shitty topics on /sci/.

saged. Go elsewhere.

>> No.4948240

>>4948233
Observe :

>>4948231
Yes, we don't know this. It doesn't change anything, because until proved false it's as good hypothesis as any other.

>> No.4948245

>>4948097
>singularity
Oh god that trite. Just go.

>> No.4948248

>>4948237
I don't have anything to discuss on it. I didn't know much about it and was simply reading through the thread to get a general idea of it. I happened to read your post and saw something stupid in it so i commented on it. I never spoke on transhumanism, just that your particular statement was stupid.

>> No.4948251

>>4948239
> Buzz word that produces incredibly shitty topics on /sci/.
Mostly because of people who has nothing more to say than "iz shit".

>> No.4948254

>>4948240
>because until proved false it's as good hypothesis as any other
this is why this shit does not belong on /sci/.

>> No.4948255

>>4948239
>>4948245
>Doesn't like thread
>posts in thread declaring how they don't like it

Please, keep wasting your time.

>> No.4948259

I like the idea in the abstract, however it's followers seems to have their head in the clouds and love new age fruity nonsense.

>> No.4948264

>>4948259
The same could be said for anything pop-sci. Most people who watch cosmology programs shouldn't speak to the future of space exploration either.

Doesn't invalidate the topic, just means people are faggots.

>> No.4948269

>>4948259
but thats WRONNNGGG.

You're basing an entire group on the minority. Why do people have such a bad habit of doing this.

>> No.4948272

>>4948254
Science should be not only about Newton's flaming laser sword but also about... possibilities.

On a daily basis we use plenty of stuff considered bullshit and SF yesterday.

Transhumanism is one of it. Actually it began some time ago. We're surrounded by people who are products of scalpel, laser and silicon.

>> No.4948276

>>4948269
Because the loud, annoying faggots are loud and annoying. Vocal minority, if you will.

>> No.4948277

>>4948088

>>We.

Speak for yourself, please.

>> No.4948280

>>4948259
Which group/activity/event/science/idea (etc. etc.) doesn't have some weird followers and supporters ?

>> No.4948281

>>4948254
>hypothesis doesn't belong on /sci/
Holy fuck, I've never seen that much retard in one post.

>> No.4948285

>>4948281
I have - but it's not the stupidity that bothers me - it's the arrogance that the retard carries and exhibits.

>> No.4948291

>>4948281
>that reading comprehension
it not that making a hypothesis is wrong, but assuming every hypothesis is correct until proven false is a type of thinking that doesn't belong on /sci/. take that shit to church or something.

>> No.4948292

>>4948285
>>4948281
Unfortunately, some "scientists" are exactly alike the people who burn down the world because of religion or other shit.

>> No.4948296

>>4948291
Everyone here is discussing a hypothesis. You would have been fine stating reasons why transhumanism isn't plausible, but you instead went "HURR I REPRESENT ALL OF /SCI/ AND WE DON'T LIKE DIS TOPIK"

Anon, you ARE the shitposter.

>> No.4948299

>>4948291
> take that shit to church or something.
You're turning /sci/ into church. And you act as a self styled Inquisitor.

> every hypothesis is correct until proven false
Every hypothesis is NOT INCORRECT until proven false. It MAY be true. And as thinking men we have obligation to discuss such matters.

We're living in 2012, not some Dark Ages when it was prohibited to think and speak about some stuff.

>> No.4948322

>>4948296
>You would have been fine stating reasons why transhumanism isn't plausible
it's not about the validity, it's about what does and doesn't belong on this board. I don't take a physics question to /lit/ and then whine about it when they tell me to fuck off.
>>4948299
you're allowed to speak on whatever the hell you want. Doesn't mean you can post it on a board where it doesn't belong.

>> No.4948348

>>4948322
> you're allowed to speak on whatever the hell you want. Doesn't mean you can post it on a board where it doesn't belong.

As long as there are people willing to discuss it, it belongs here. Face it - you're not guardian knight of /sci/. Stop pretend otherwise.

>> No.4948351

ITT: Everyone argues with a retard

GG, guys, he won.

>> No.4948358

>>4948351
It doesn't matter. Next time he'll cease his activity because of heavy EGO loss.

>> No.4948366

I think it supports some ideas which are self-contradictory.

For example, the idea that intelligence can be increased artificially and that it could actually be increased exponentially. This is nothing but sci-fi, they don't know what they're talking about, what the cost to that biological being would be (assuming you will still be one, otherwise you wouldn't actually live/experience anything), what the effect of increasing intelligence on the general functioning of that being would be.

Prosthetic limbs and spare organs? Sure, why not. Would you like a prosthetic penis to have sex with prosthetic vaginas with it? Is that supposed to be the glorious future of "transhumanity", a life of recyclable bodies with plastic sensations and discardable past?

If the best body design would have implied titanium skeleton, wouldn't we have already evolved one?

In nature, there's no free lunch, you never get any physical "upgrade" at zero cost.

>> No.4948370

>>4948348
no, it just means people need to learn not to reply to off-topic shit.
>As long as there are people willing to discuss it, it belongs here
well the thread died, so i guess it doesn't belong here. kindly fuck off.
>you're not guardian knight of /sci/
i'm the hero this board deserves, but not the one it wants right now. so you can hate me, because I can take it. because I'm not a hero, i'm the fucking batman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLGUT8XJCvI

>> No.4948376

>>4948366
>If the best body design would have implied titanium skeleton, wouldn't we have already evolved one?
Duuuuude....

>> No.4948384

>>4948366
>In nature, there's no free lunch, you never get any physical "upgrade" at zero cost

See, normally, I would agree, but we aren't really trying to adapt to an unpredictable environment anymore. The environment we live in is typically man-made.

When we get to the point where we're able to improve our minds, I'm sure we'll have so much control of the earth, that there will be no real "trade-offs."

>> No.4948387

>>4948366
Interesting.
Let's see...

> the idea that intelligence can be increased artificially and that it could actually be increased exponentially
I'm not sure about this "exponentially" part, but increased ? Why not - of course as long as we understand by it "make it work faster, better, less flawed". By simply switching off (temporarily) emotions and stress we'd be far more effective.

> Would you like a prosthetic penis to have sex with prosthetic vaginas with it? Is that supposed to be the glorious future of "transhumanity", a life of recyclable bodies with plastic sensations and discardable past?

Is it all you can think of ? I guess that "Man +" wouldn't need/want to have sex. It's an atavism. Stinky, dirty atavism.

> If the best body design would have implied titanium skeleton, wouldn't we have already evolved one?

Flying. We fly, even if if we didn't evolve mechanism for that.

>> No.4948406

>>4948366
Zero cost?

>> No.4948419

>>4948387
>By simply switching off (temporarily) emotions and stress we'd be far more effective.
Switching off stress would increase intelligence? Source?

>"Man +" wouldn't need/want to have sex. It's an atavism. Stinky, dirty atavism.
And what core motivation would he have? If reproduction is removed from the brain's core motivational layers then why would you even wake up or start doing anything at all?

>We fly, even if if we didn't evolve mechanism for that.
We dont fly, we're passangers in flying vehicles, that's different. It's like an animal which uses a piece of floating wood to cross a river.

>> No.4948423

>>4948406
Zero cost to yourself. If you increase intelligence do you think you simply get more for nothing, in terms of functionality? That's not how things work in nature..

>> No.4948426

>>4948264
>>4948269
>>4948280
>dont generalize
Sure, but there are limits though. I have a limited ability to process information which means I have to be economical with the amount of attention I pay to things. Why pilfer through all the crackpots when there are rich veins of information by heavily peer reviewed researchers just waiting for the picking?

>> No.4948431

>>4948384
Well, he's both correct and staggeringly fucking incorrect. There *is* no "free" upgrade. Thing is, we're built to survive in hostile environments and on scarce resources. We have mostly very safe environments, and as the obesity crisis reflects, we're literally in a crisis of plenty. We have the spare calories, we have the spare materials, we have the time, we have safety, making better use of it is logical.

So it's not "Free", but the upgrade's utility vastly outweighs it's cost. I'd rather my body devote all of it's caloric intake to improving my joints, muscles, and mind, and maintaining my body, rather than fat storage.

And yes, I can (and do) influence that by going to the gym and studying and thinking. But wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all have adonis-like physiques and sharp, clear minds *without* the work and upkeep? (Which, speaking of, besides neural efficiency, those "upgrades" aren't free either, our bodies only do them in response to environmental stressors as a preservator of efficiency, it's not like doing the shit makes magic muscles grow)

In other words, low opportunity cost, high reward, if there's anything us fat sacks of shit in America have to spare it's fucking calories and nutrients.

And yes, there are other non-efficiency related upgrade "costs" and "rewards", but nutrient efficiency is a big one, and nowadays, an irrelevant one (besides shortened lifespan via telomere reduction via increased cell division.)

>> No.4948432

>>4948419
> Source?
Common sense. Try to write exams under heavy stress. Try to reason, focus.

Also - please remember of what i've said about my definition of "INCREASE INTELLIGENCE".

> And what core motivation would he have?
With our animal side taken out of account we'd be able to finally do what's really important and by that i mean "understand the world, universe, and ourselves".

Think how science would benefit...

> We dont fly, we're passangers in flying vehicles, that's different.
Please don't use that argument.
It's considered "dirty move" to argue about text errors rather than idea.

If flying isn't your thing then medicines - we cured natural diseases considered fatal in the past. There you go.

>> No.4948436

>>4948423
Actually, plenty of people nowadays already paid that debt - they are fat, unmoving blobs that interact with the world via the Internet.

I think they are ready to spare some limbs.

>> No.4948440

>>4948426
>Why pilfer through all the crackpots when there are rich veins of information by heavily peer reviewed researchers just waiting for the picking?

Because now and then, you find a pearl in the clam - so to speak.

>> No.4948445

>>4948436
>bigger brains require more calories
>fat as shit

Gee, wonder where we can get those calories from... Imagine the headlines now - fat fucks useful for once!

>>4948440
Diamond in the rough, perhaps? Everyone is looking at the diamonds in the fucking diamond pile.

>> No.4948446

>>4948432
Not the person you're talking to, but stress is a motivator. It can cause you to learn something or do something better. Its there to help you focus and improve whatever situation you're in that caused you to be stressed in the first place. Thats why we have it.

But yes, *too much* of it can cause a degradation in your performance.

>> No.4948458

>>4948446
I agree.

It's all about the degree. There's a big difference between "Ramirez, you must do this and this to gain some bonus, now move your ass, chop-chop" and "oh my god, if you won't solve this equation in the next 5 minutes we are all gonna dieeeee".

Stress is powerful, devastating thing. With time it can ruin even the strongest mind.

But once again - these are only examples. There are better, i'm sure of that.

>> No.4948465

>>4948445
Thanks, i'll try to remember that saying.

> Imagine the headlines now - fat fucks useful for once!

Actually, it's damn hilarious ! :]

>> No.4948469

>>4948432
>Try to write exams under heavy stress. Try to reason, focus.
Try to do anything carefully without feeling any degree of stress. Are you even using your brain?

>With our animal side taken out of account we'd be able to finally do what's really important and by that i mean "understand the world, universe, and ourselves".
Huhuhuhu, hahah huhu, and where would that motivation come from? How is understanding a core motivation of anything living?

>If flying isn't your thing then medicines - we cured natural diseases considered fatal in the past. There you go.
Dude, we we talking about enhancing bodies, not using external devices, technologies, drugs, w/e. We didn't evolve for having medicines yet, there's no sign the body has stopped producing antibodies because we're getting vaccines. Also, there's no sign our brains have stopped producing aggression because "we no longer live in savage environments". Nature is actually smarter than us... I can't believe I'm arguing this, but it's true. Well, actually, nature is smarter than transhumanists.

>> No.4948485

>>4948469
Well I guess the first step of transhumanism should be to coordinate our immune systems with medical technology and to reduce people's baseline aggression.

What the fuck is your point? We shouldn't do things because they aren't perfect?

People aren't perfect now. People die all the fucking time because they or someone else was born imperfect. People experience undue suffering because of their or someone else's physiological imperfection.

Correcting these imperfections people have from being born could make them a lot happier and give them the chance to deal with all the suffering they experience from living imperfect lives. And then maybe they can fix that later as well.

>> No.4948492

>>4948469
Not the same person
>nature is smarter than us
>the process of natural selection is smarter than us
>the process that has produced billions and billions of species that have gone extinct due to a bad biological build... is smarter than us

Nature works through trial and error. We created this thing called a KOM PU TOR than can simulate all sorts of things far faster than nature can. We also have methods that makes these processes a lot faster and efficient.

Sure, nature might might produce a god-like being one day a trillions years from now, but we can speed that shit up. hell, we're part of nature anyway, so there really no division between nature and us.

>> No.4948499
File: 1.06 MB, 360x203, mindblown.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4948499

>>4948492
TL;DR: WE NATURE NOW

>> No.4948495

>>4948469
> Try to do anything carefully without feeling any degree of stress. Are you even using your brain?
Sure. I find solace in writing fanfic, not the stress.

> where would that motivation come from?
You, kind sir, serve as best example of what i'm saying. You speak about motivation, because you're made to think it's a must, there has to be some award for four activities.

It's the pragmatical animal that speaks through you right now, not the Man.

If i may interest you with this idea...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs

> Dude, we we talking about enhancing bodies, not using external devices, technologies, drugs, w/e.
Actually - no. We're talking about enhancing ourselves by any means, any technology possible.

Think about it as about process. It's very long way from now to the speculated "ultimate Man". God knows what accessories we're bound to use on the way.

>> No.4948506

>>4948469
>Nature is actually smarter than us... I can't believe I'm arguing this, but it's true. Well, actually, nature is smarter than transhumanists.

Nature isn't "smart". It's not some intelligent being. It adapts, it's good at that, but believe it or not - we're not that bad either. Leap from proto-human simpletons into what we are now was very long and we needed only thousands of years for that, while Nature is here since the beginning of time.

>> No.4948507

>>4948495
You believe in free-will don't you?

>> No.4948508

>>4948499
> TL;DR
>>> tumblr

>> No.4948514

>>4948507
Not at all.
I believe in my personal mix of absurdism and determinism.

>> No.4948517

>>4948508
>associates the common abbreviation tldr with tumblr
Your newfaggotry is showing.

>> No.4948518

>>4948514
Then what you're saying about humans not needing a reward system contradicts your belief in determinism.

>> No.4948519

I personally believe we have another hundred years until we are integrated with machines to the point where the daily life is completely different. Its why I can't take science fiction seriously because they try to say in 500 years we will look and act exactly the same.

>> No.4948521

>>4948485
I'm very disappointed with people thinking in terms of secluded stages instead of processes.

I don't understand how it is even remotely possible to perceive as something else than slowly progressing, adjustable on the way events that are flawed from the beginning to the end, but STILL, producing better results than we have now.

>> No.4948523

fucking summerfags go back to
>>>/x/
>>>/lit/
>>>/b/
and never return

>> No.4948525

>>4948519
I meant to say at most. I actually think Human revolution was kind of realistic in the progress we expect to see in that time.

>> No.4948527

>>4948517
Think whatever you like - i believe that "tl;dr" aka lazy people shouldn't visit message boards and/or join discussions. It's waste of their time.

>>4948518
Please, read carefully what i said about my beliefs.

>> No.4948528

>>4948527
fuck off summerfag

>> No.4948530

>>4948495
No, I'm talking about motivation because without it, there is no spark, no actual drive to do anything at all. I dont know why you actually think anything living, any organism, designed or not, could have self-directed goals without motivation.

>Maslow's hierarchy of needs
You might want to check how that hypothesis is (un)supported by research.

>> No.4948531 [DELETED] 

/sci/ is a place of knowledge, not wisdom.

Transhumanism is a matter of wisdom, therefore it strictly belongs in >>>/lounge/

>> No.4948539

>>4948527
You believe it's impossible to find meaning in the universe and that humans have the illusion of free-will.
Is that right? Or are you going to force me to assume more?

>> No.4948540

>>4948528
> being on 4chan
> accusing of summerfagism

Get a hold of yourself. You're not on wikipedia forums anymore.

>> No.4948546

>>4948530
> No, I'm talking about motivation because without it, there is no spark, no actual drive to do anything at all.

I'm sorry, Anon, i don't have anything for you. There's virtually no way i could convince you to my way of thinking without hours-long discussion about sociology, behavioral psychology and such.

Let's agree we don't agree here, ok ?

> You might want to check how that hypothesis is (un)supported by research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis

I'm sorry, i can't produce any better links right now.

>> No.4948550

>>4948539
Why should i ? It's my belief system, and it serves me right.

Keyword here is "maybe". Not impossible.

>> No.4948554

>>4948546
Not the poster you were blah blah blah
but you've just demonstrated the "backfire effect" that another anon posted in link to in the thread.
When someone, whos been proven wrong, start to firmly believe in their way of thinking more than they did before.

>> No.4948559

>>4948554
I'm sorry, did someone said "butthurt" ?

It's 2012 Anon. You should be able to get over your massive EGO loss already.

>> No.4948560
File: 38 KB, 162x198, 9396673234.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4948560

>>4948550
>belief.

People need to stop using that word in the context of philosophy, because as a constituent of psychology its measurable in an objective sense, as far as objective can effectively describe the process of observation through a flawed system in itself, being the human mind.

>> No.4948561

It's just how things are.
Making some kind of technoutopian "movement" out of it seems silly.

>> No.4948565

>>4948559
>implying I'm the same person you were talking to

You're ego can't even handle that multiple people disagree with you. So much so that you've resorted to trolling.

>> No.4948577

>>4948561
Well, not exactly.

In the past we had plenty of things emerge spontaneously. We really didn't know where we were steering to - for example Columbus voyage. Nobody could predict how complicated things will become 500-600 years later.

Now, we are developed enough to predict at least some possible future's scenarios. Some SF writers (some with scientific background) suggested that if unguided, we may end in not-so bright future.

What i'm trying to say here is : we're literally one step from dirty, broken, dystopian cyberpunk reality. Yet, we still have time to discuss things before they'll happen to make regulations "a priori", to at least prepare some laws for future that is yet to come.

tl;dr : we won't have time to adjust everything when cyborgs, androids and other byproducts of transhumanism start to walk the streets. It will be chaos.

>> No.4948585

>>4948565
To be honest, i already forgot about you.

>>4948560
You realize you're talking to non-native english "speaker" ? My vocabulary is very limited. I'm sorry for that.

>> No.4948595

>>4948585
>replying to a person you forgot about

You're not very good at handling your ideas being crushed huh? I've read a lot of the dumb things you've posted and you seem to have this "religious" mentality in that you're very close-minded and can't accept anything that challenges your firmly held ideas.

You really don't belong on this board.

>> No.4948596
File: 65 KB, 173x234, 213305850.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4948596

>>4948585
Oh, no, what you said was fine, eloquent enough to be considered fluent.

But its the context of the word, belief is a word used in common English to excuse reason or understanding.

>> No.4948600

>>4948596
>belief is a word used in common English to excuse reason or understanding
Thats what hes been doing. He used it properly.

>> No.4948661

The only way.
Other alternative are fat unintelligent fucks trapped in perfect luxury habitat till the end of the sun, cause they won't even give enough fuck to progress and escape.

>> No.4948696

>>4948595
Whatever. Your opinion is of any value only to yourself. Have a good day sir. Mine is.

>> No.4948710

>>4948596
Ah, i understand now. Thanks.

Yes, "it's the matter of faith" is probably one of worst arguments ever used. But - and i find it funny - this board tends to overuse it even without realizing it (i hope).

It's really sad that people prefer "no u shut up" instead of "fuckin' throw anything you have in store at me, i'm not afraid of thinking" aka "consider this :..."

>> No.4948731

>>4948440
I'm more likely to find "pearls" in some places than others. Why should I look for them where I am less likely to find them?

If I were attempting to develop a submarine in the 1860s I might read Jules Verne's 20000 leagues under the sea but the real technical information would come from science journals and books concerning cutting edge scence.

>> No.4948769

>>4948731
Look, bro, we're talking general stuff here. There's no way to say that scientist X is worth 1000 development points, and some drugged psycho only 10.

However, consider this please : we're living in the age of information. Science sometimes overlaps with mysticism and from time to time we face the discovery that is nothing short of "Dafaq is that possible ?" We face the need to change our ways of thinking often than before and we have less time for that than earlier generations.

So.
I'm not saying "let's throw all science books out of the windows and replace Sagans with some sect leaders". I'm asking "do we have the luxury of abandoning less walked paths ?"

From time to time it's good to discuss even flawed hypothesis only to strengthen our own theories or, possibly, incorporate some new ideas.

And here we are - transhumanism. Why should we call it garbage when even now there are people who are more machines, plastic and silicon than natural flesh and blood ?

It may be a longshot but 50 years from now on people would replace their eyes with much better optical implants. The reality they will exist in will be slightly different than our own. We're risking the split before "new" and "old" if we oversleep the time when we still can prepare for a new future.

And what board is better for this than hard, criticial, logical, void of emotion /sci/ ?

tl;dr: those pearls may be more valuable than we think.

>> No.4948844

>>4948769
Jule Verne predicted we'd send a man to the moon, using a giant cannon. I view transhumanism as much the same thing, you seem to focus on bio-mechanical implants because machines are stuck in the popular imagination, though I'm sure there will be some advances in that area. It is much more feasible to modify what has naturally evolved first however. We already have huge machines that give us superpowers and we don't need direct nerve connections with them though I suppose that might improve a few industries a few percentiles, the kicker is biological immortality, heightened intelligence and near perfect healthcare, all of which are most feasibly achieved by advancing genetic engineering and developing an in depth understanding of biological processes and how to manipulate them, possibly to the point of designing cells from scratch in the same way we design computer programs. We have seen runaway reactions in various fields of research several times since the industrial revolution where impossibly complex tasks are accomplished by teams of scientists over decades well funded by the industries that profit from that research.

My point is transhumanists are a cut above most people just for being interested in science, they are a "movement" however, they throw a hissy fit when you try to get them to be more pragmatic so they can make progress in turning their fantasies into reality. Not like 4chan, I like the worksafe boards on 4chan because everyone here thrives on confrontation, like the peer reviewed scientists who are constantly judged by mistress reality they can't go off on a tangent become a drug addled psycho.

I guess you've convinced me to keep an eye on this...
http://hplusmagazine.com/

They have a few articles on the brain that look interesting.

>> No.4949074
File: 59 KB, 290x199, electronic old men.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4949074

Idea: Open Source Augmentation

Websites or other resources dedicated to basic human enhancement through technology with instructions and open source software to modify.

Is there already a place like this?

>> No.4949109

>>4948844
Just a little addendum : I perceive transhumanism as "movement", or "event" that consists of many different aspects (even philosophical ones) and will become reality thanks to at least a few plans put in motion. Still - the biomechanical advancement seems a most probable scenario, at least for me.

>> No.4949111

>>4948844
contd (marked as spam ???)

And one thing that caught my attention/ It's very interesting thing you said there :
> near perfect healthcare

Scenario : we develop human+. He is not immortal, but his lifespan is counted in hundreds of years.
Questions : Retirement plan. Insurances. Legal matters. Marriages and divorces. Jobs. Upkeep.

There are so many things that will have to change when ideas of transhumanism become solid reality.

>> No.4949113

>>4948844
contd (something is not right with my post ???)

I'm surprised transhumanism isn't discussed here on a daily basis. People may not think that way, but it will be us, who will have to face such reality after two-three decades. We will be adults, lawyers, presidents, politicians, diplomats then... or at least some of us.

>> No.4949132
File: 7 KB, 251x251, _carrey.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4949132

>>4949074
"Look Ma, i overclocked my neural paths"

>> No.4949163
File: 344 KB, 222x183, 1317262481705.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4949163

>>4949132
"MSNBC affiliates in New york today interviewed, Doctor's concerning the matter of open source augmentation.
The reports concern the shocking deaths that have occurred from amateur transhumanists running thier wetware at well over manufactured safety standartds and literally burning from the inside out. "

>> No.4949242

>>4949074
The problem is research can cost millions, a platform is needed to ensure that R&D is funded depending on the value of the research and rewarded for succesful products.
>>4949109
It seems to me like the transhumanist movement needs to mix up the emotions stirred by it's vision of the future with the excitement of actually accomplishing something, it needs a culture that says "ok, we all want cyborg bodies and whatnot, but what does it take to do this, I mean, what does it really take, I am not interested in snake oil here, I want to see results", then to conclude the answer is what I've said.
>>4949111
People should be able to work longer with retroviruses that correct ageing defects, excellent nutrition, lower incidence of cancer, heart disease and so forth. Anyway, I'd rather sign a "do not resuscitate" order in my deathbed at age 200 than die aged 49 of cancer.
>>4949113
They express their thoughts and fears in different ways, for instance I've wondered why people don't realise how amazing sapience is and how everything we understand about the universe has no place for it, yet there it is. Then I realised that religion and all that stuff about spirituality is their expression of their sapience.

You see I can be quite deep too.

>> No.4949245
File: 91 KB, 500x386, 36 rygeh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4949245

OP has so many logical fallacies and has regurgitated so much Luddite bullshit 'talking points' that i can no longer suspend my belief that he isn't trolling.

Also, who the fuck starts 'transhumanism general' and then does nothing but try to beat the concept into the ground? A troll is the only explanation I can think of other than OP is a legitimate retard and/or 11 year old (very likely).

OP: Remember that Transhumanism is a concept not a theory like evolution or 'EITHER ACCEPT OR REFUSE' its an idea. The idea that humanity can improve itself with technology. The whole 'Singularity' and the various minutiae that have been attached to the concept are just talking points that supporters and detractors use to further their argument by making it seem more or less possible.

You sticking to your guns of picking up long-winded articles written by people who accept the concept as a PHILOSOPHY FOR LIFE (something it was never ever meant to be) and then deconstructing them using high-school debate tactics just wastes our time.

Most of this thread is argument about wording and intent, not actually discussing the concept of Transhumanism at all.

tl;dr: troll detected.

>> No.4949286
File: 70 KB, 192x192, 9655189776.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4949286

>>4949242
regardless of what the majority dictates at the time of its inception or implementation, when an advantage is presented to the population only those that seize said advantage will thrive and adapt to the technology in a way that those too convoluted to understand or otherwise control the advantage or technology can not.

So regardless, if the technology exists, and it is cheap/effective enough, it will become the new normality through the process of social evolution.

>> No.4949318
File: 591 KB, 1280x800, SC_Cybran_1280x800.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4949318

>Not being part of the Cybran master race

Stop being driven by fear.

>> No.4949399

>>4949245
Unfortunately OP left after only two commentaries, you know...
>>4948084
>>4948097
It may be you're mistakin' whole group for single poster

>> No.4949753

I think Transhumanism is a very interesting concept, but should it actually develop I believe there will be serious problems.

For one, a new form of racism WILL develop. To think that something as radical as improving the human body beyond its natural limits will be accepting wholeheartedly is incredibly naive.

Second, social classes will be incredibly unbalanced. It's already unbalanced as it is with the wealthy and elite having access to the best that their fortune can provide. Can you imagine that same class now being so fundamentally better as a human (intellect, body, etc.) and people not being upset by that? This alone, if the technology is not properly dispersed among the common populace in small amounts to sate their anger, could easily lead to movements and riots.

>> No.4952220

>>4949753
> "Look kids, that's Natural. Stay away from him, he is filthy, sick and god knows how his chemically unbalanced brain will react"

>> No.4952260
File: 17 KB, 330x334, Ray.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4952260

Transabled is best trans.

http://transabled.org/
http://www.squidoo.com/transabled

>> No.4952293

>>4949318
Best RTS ever.
If only FA was better optimized.