/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3192838]

Is it scientifically accepted that the average black person is less intelligent than the average white person? Or that the average asian is smarter than the average caucasian?

Serious question.

[Anonymous No.3192841]

Define "smarter".

[Anonymous No.3192843]

>>3192841


Academically. For example, why aren't there very many great black scientists?

[Anonymous No.3192844]

Is it scientifically accepted that the average poster on /sci/ is PhD in maths, 300k starting?

[Anonymous No.3192847]

>>3192843

[Anonymous No.3192848]

it is partly accepted.

what is more contentious is any cause for this.

there's no proof any difference is genetic, all "science" claiming a difference has been convincingly refuted.

there is some evidence the difference MAY be cultural, and if this is the case it would not be right to say "black/white" is smarter/dumber, but to say so and so a culture is smarter/dumber.

[Anonymous No.3192852]

>>3192847
>Implying one counterexample defies a wealth of scientific data.

Fuck off liberals. on AVERAGE, there is a difference just accept it.

And no its not 'accepted' as such because any academic who hints to there being the slightest difference is immediatly branded a racist and suspended.

The statistics however do say theres a difference.

[Anonymous No.3192854]

>>3192844
>average poster on /sci/ is PhD in maths
>PhD in maths
>maths
>s

it's called fucking MATH.

[Anonymous No.3192857]

>>3192854
Nope.jpg

[Anonymous No.3192860]

>>3192854

Woah, reported for underage.

[Anonymous No.3192861]

>>3192847
His contribution to science being?

[Anonymous No.3192862]

>>3192852

Its staring us all in the face, but look what happens when you awknowledge it:

>A lecturer who suggested ethnicity could influence average intelligence levels has been suspended from his job.

>Dr Frank Ellis was suspended from his post as a lecturer at Leeds University pending disciplinary procedures.

>The university emphasised that the suspension was not itself a penalty but said it had been deemed appropriate given "the seriousness of the issues".

>The lecturer in Russian and Slavonic Studies told a student newspaper there was a "persistent gap" in IQ levels.

>"persistent gap" in IQ

If thats literally all he said to the newspaper than this is truly a depressing story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4838498.stm

[Krakengineer !!5XY+x7grkpt No.3192863]

The average IQ scores for African Americans are lower than European Americans. However the average IQ scores of African Canadians is higher than both European Canadians and European Americans.

IQ scores aren't that good indicator. If I were under the impression that I could never get ahead in life through education I'd just pick the answers on my IQ test at random so I could go play pokemon. Children of immigrants sometimes even practice taking IQ tests so they can score higher.

[Anonymous No.3192869]

>>3192854
it's called MATHEMATICS
get the fuck out.

[Anonymous No.3192871]

>>3192852
>>3192852
Nobody with a brain denies the differences.

Question remains nature vs. nurture?

[Anonymous No.3192874]

>>3192854
>my country is the only country
>my language is the only language

[Anonymous No.3192877]

>>3192863
That is why IQ is an excellent indicator for (cultural) learning but it is not as effective measuring the (vaguely defined) intelligence of people.

Last sentence may be a little bit confusing. I mean the IQ can not measure intelligence in the way you can say that A is smarter than B because of the IQ and neither who will be more successful in life or academics.

[Anonymous No.3192879]

>>3192871
>nature vs. nurture?

please don't call it that. culture is as much a part of nature as genetics

[Anonymous No.3192883]

>>3192854
I have a PhD in maths and you don't, I'm pretty sure I know better than you how to write it.

[Anonymous No.3192884]

>>3192863

>Dr Ellis said the assumption that IQ tests are the most valid way of testing intelligence was the "dirty little secret" of psychology, because society as a whole did not accept this.

>He said he became interested in the issue of censoring sensitive debates through his studies of the media under Soviet and post-Soviet regimes.

>He added that labelling him a racist was "an attempt to close down any discussion" and an attack on his freedom of speech.

>"These days a racist is anything you don't like - it's a hate word. I have no strong feelings towards black people either way."

>He said he had never treated any black student in a different way to any white student, and he had "done absolutely nothing wrong".


IQ tests aren't pitch perfect but they're te closest thing we have and extremely close.

[Anonymous No.3192887]

>>3192852
That's the problem, there's only statistically shown differences. Statistics can't explain the CAUSE. There's no evidence whatsoever to suggest that it's genetic. You're using statistics to justify racism, whereas you should be looking at the cultural conditions.

[Anonymous No.3192888]

>>3192847
Note the words "very many." A single exception does not disprove a general trend.

[Anonymous No.3192896]

The average black IQ is lower than the average white IQ. This is typically attributed to social environment and cultural bias within the test.

[Anonymous No.3192899]

>>3192887

I'm not using statistics to say anything.

This is the issue here. If someone says theres a difference in intelligence as a whole, then you liberals say that we must be racist.

No. Theres a difference. Either add to the discussion on why this difference has consistently shown itself again and again, or continue to plug your ears and say EVERYOENS THE SAME IF YOU DISAGREE YOU'RE JUST RACIST

[Anonymous No.3192909]

>>3192899
The difference is that you blame and it on blacks because blacks score regularly lower on IQ tests (in the USA).
But there might be other influences, not just the test result and the race.
What about income, education, criminal record or situation of parents?

[Anonymous No.3192915]

>>3192909

>What about income, education, criminal record or situation of parents?

Whats a factor in all of those things?? Intelligence.

You can't just say "Oh they only scored lower on IQ tests because they did worse in school its an unfair comparison" Derp they did worse in school because they're less intelligent maybe?

Same for income parents and criminal record.

[Anonymous No.3192926]

>>3192915
That can be seen as on possible explanation.
What do you think about that line of logic:
Parents are poor->children can't go to good schools/universities and no money for additional teaching and tutoring->lower scores on IQ and worse grades

You say people are stupid because they are poor. Other people see their lack of wealth as a reason for their lacking in academic disciplines.
Spoiler: Both are actually true and the question is what matters more.

What we might agree upon is the fact that most people who are successful (in academics and/or business life) started out from parents with high income and had the best possible disposition. Many factors for your success are determined before you are born and here I am not talking about genes.
Additionally they had a shit ton of luck.

[Anonymous No.3192928]

>>3192915
Do you know the difference between causality and correlation?
Because it surely doesn't look like it.

[Anonymous No.3192929]

>>3192915
"By Scarr, Sandra; Weinberg, Richard A.
American Psychologist, Vol 31(10), Oct 1976, 726-739.
Abstract
The poor performance of Black children on IQ tests and in school has been hypothesized to arise from (a) genetic racial differences or (b) cultural/environmental disadvantages. To separate genetic factors from rearing conditions, 130 Black and interracial children adopted by advantaged White families were studied. The socially classified Black adoptees, whose natural parents were educationally average, scored above the IQ and the school achievement mean of the White population. Biological children of the adoptive parents scored even higher. Genetic and environmental determinants of differences among the Black and interracial adoptees were largely confounded. The high IQ scores of the socially classified Black adoptees indicate malleability for IQ under rearing conditions that are relevant to the tests and the schools. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved)"

[Anonymous No.3192930]

>>3192838

Your question is the main proof that it's not true.

[Anonymous No.3192934]

>>3192899
I didn't deny anything, I just noted how people look at statistics and jump to conclusions like "lol it must be genetic, fucking niggers" before actually examining the issue.

I'd actually like to see some reliable statistics about this.

[Anonymous No.3192940]

>>3192926

>You say people are stupid because they are poor.

No I said people are poor because they are stupid.

[Anonymous No.3192960]

>>3192929
>>3192929
Surprise it is both!
Another fun fact: There is only one of the named influences we can work on as society.

>inb4 kill all niggers

[Anonymous No.3192982]

>>3192929
not all variables are controlled. the white children were not living with adoptive parents.

>not science
captcha: feedback tellso

[Anonymous No.3192986]

do people not understand there is practically a world wide culture that blacks are infereior. what do you think that would do to your psyche if you were born into a world that had lower expectations for you. no wonder they do worse on average, self-fulfilling prophecy

[Anonymous No.3193009]

>>3192986
yeah this would actually be hugely damaging

[Anonymous No.3193022]

>2011
>it's still not common knowledge that we can't determine genetic intelligence differences so long as the massive cultural difference exists
>mfw

http://heraldbulletin.com/education/x1886877938/Local-black-male-students-face-long-odds
>Many black males who strive to succeed in school are criticized by peers for “acting white,” making it difficult for the student to maintain a positive attitude toward school.

This shit has been going on for years guys, pay attention.

[Anonymous No.3193030]

another that should be added is the impossibility of obtaining statistics for the entire population. No matter how thorough you believe your sample to be, it's not and any conclusions drawn from said data is speculation at best.

[Anonymous No.3193028]

>>3193022
Yes, people have been trying to exaggerate the effect on culture to man vs. effect of man on culture.

We see trough that bullshit alright.

Even inside "our" culture its very typical for less gifted people to belittle intellectual achievement. It's not an effect of culture. It's caused by lack of talent.

[Anonymous No.3193036]

It's a statistical fact that blacks have lower IQ's then whites.

Anything else is unscientific opinion and anecdotal. Not that it's not right, but it's not rigorous enough.

[Anonymous No.3193038]

>>3193036
>IQ

[Anonymous No.3193039]

>>3193022
>>3193022

News just in! Whites have been going through the same shit for years too!!!

Its not like Blacks are the only race where the stupid majority mocks and teases and ostrasizes the clever minority. Whereas us whites are seen as heroes by our race if we're clever.

Nope. We go through the same shit. There wasn't a single day in Middle school go by where I wasn't called a 'boffin' or something (English for nerd).

Highschool was slightly better because we were put in sets so were more with like minded people, but that just meant there were more of us to call nerds and geeks and whatever by the others. Not that it stopped.

[Anonymous No.3193042]

>>3193036
By your standards IQ test are not rigorous science.

[Anonymous No.3193043]

>>3193028
Except the minority of whites who bully intelligent whites is far smaller than the majority of blacks who bully intelligent blacks.

It's pretty easy to ignore a bully... until it's everyone in the whole school district.

[Anonymous No.3193047]

>>3193039
You got to go to school and even high school. That already makes you lucky.

Also not science take this shit to /b/

[Anonymous No.3193052]

IQs of low class people in average are lower than those of middle and high class people.

So make your own conclusion.

[Anonymous No.3193054]

It is a scientific fact that the average east Asian scores higher on IQ tests than the average white person, who in turn scores higher than the average black person.

What is disputed is:
1) The reasons for the difference.
2) The biological basis for cultural categories of race.

[Anonymous No.3193058]

>>3193043
I still believe that the "acting white" phenomena happens because they just can't compete.

Then they cultivate alternative systems of prestige where they can rise to the top.

[Anonymous No.3193066]

>>3193058
Or rather it's because as whole they culturally place no value in education and view those who try to be smart as trying to imitate the white man.

Basically the black equivalent of wiggers except instead of droopy pants they know words longer than welfare.

[Anonymous No.3193068]

>>3193058
>>3193043
And yes, i do believe that the racial thing makes it worse.

Whites can always cling to the achievements of other whites. What do blacks have? Nothing.

[Anonymous No.3193072]

>>3193052

No. When compared, there's absolutely no correlation between wealth and intelligence.

[Anonymous No.3193076]

>>3192847
Nail The Grass:

1. He is one of the VERY VERY VERY few 'black' scientists.
2. He is not ACTUAL scientist, but science populizer, he didn't contribute shit on science.
3. HE IS 3/4 WHITE, so his 'blackness' is mainly skin deep, the little blackness he has doesnt allow him to do anything good in science.

Despite the minor racism, you KNOW its true, dont look away, reality is reality.
DEAL WITH IT

[Anonymous No.3193079]

>>3193068
>Whites can always cling to the achievements of other whites.

Which, of course, only the most pathetic white people do, otherwise they'd have other, actual things to be proud of. Which is why white supremacists tend to be the worst examples of white people.

[Anonymous No.3193081]

>>3193076
>he didn't contribute shit on science.

Depends on your idea of contribution, you can not say that his efforts have no chance of inspiring someone else who will make a major direct contribution to the sciences after all.

[Anonymous No.3193082]

>>3193076
>the little blackness he has doesnt allow him to do anything good in science.

lolwat

[Anonymous No.3193087]

>>3193081
my teacher can inspire too.
Scientific contribution= discoveries, breakthroughs etc
None.

[Anonymous No.3193098]

>>3192863

>the average IQ scores of African Canadians is higher than both European Canadians and European Americans.

I'm not a racist by any measure but to this statement I say the following:

BULL
FUCKING
SHIT

[Anonymous No.3193112]

>>3193079
The Hills Have Eyes

[Anonymous No.3193115]

>>3193098
Dont answer man.
He's just trollin.

Dont you think its too coincidental?
That IQ all cultures and classes have the same pattern?

Surelly an educated black will have higher IQ than an uneducated black.
But if you compare two EDUCATED white and black, the white on average will always be higher, no matter country, culture, social class etc.

Even before education its true, they measured kids under 6 years old, again the same pattern of IQ differences, in many different studies.

Ofc environment plays a role, but if you take two of those different race in equal terms the white will be higher.

What hard liberals prove is that blacks are not retarded, we know that, they just aren't as intelligent as whites.

IQ might not be the best intelligence indicator but it sure is useful for statistical data.
Which data fits the ACTUAL world we live in.

[Anonymous No.3193121]

>>3192843

Louis Armstrong. Pure Genius. If you don't think so....you might be a Racist.

[Stupid Old Guy No.3193122]

>>3193098
It might be true. I remember when there were exactly three black families in my city. (It had around 200 000 people at the time, Calgary Alberta) when I was a boy. We do not really have a culture where blacks had to deal with systemic segregation. They were below the radar so to speak.

I remeber the prevailing attitude of my overwhelmingly white society too, we were somewhat distrustful and baffled by foreigners but we also recognized that if they came here and were able to deal with our winters, they probably belonged here.

Fast forward 50 years to today and you have blacks coming from very poor countries with no excuses for underachieving in our society. They appear to be taking full advantage of the opportunities presented to them here.

[Anonymous No.3193123]

it's impossible to make rational, logical, objective, scientific deductions about race due to any conclusions outside of the status quo being "racism".

[Anonymous No.3193125]

[Anonymous No.3193127]

[Anonymous No.3193130]

[Anonymous No.3193155]

>>3193130
>>3193127
>>3193125
Why do you have those saved?

[Anonymous No.3193170]

>>3192884
>He said he had never treated any black student in a different way to any white student, and he had "done absolutely nothing wrong".


But if he believes that Black people have a lower average IQ, why did he not help out Black students whom he knew to be less intelligent. If you think of it this way he has done something wrong in not helping pupils who are at a perceived disadvantage.

[Anonymous No.3193171]

>>3193115
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.3193187]

>Be in school.
>Influx of black kids to my yeargroup in last 2 years.
>Some are dickheads, some are good people, some intelligent, some total asshats.
>Reinforces my belief that you cant judge an individual person because of their skin colour.

[Anonymous No.3193195]

>>3193187
You clearly have no clue about what's going on.

Its not about the fucking skin color.
Its their damn dna.
South Indians can be very dark but they are intelligent as whites with the same education.

[Anonymous No.3193205]

>>3193087
Then enjoy your world with no science because the only people staving off religion aren't scientist enough for your elite idea of scientist (which you will likely never achieve)