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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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2841464 No.2841464 [Reply] [Original]

Following the disaster in Japan, Germany is to consider the closure of it's high speed rail network. This specifically follows the loss of an estimated 400 lives when the Tsunami swept away a bullet train. This is the worst rail accident in the developed world.

Critics of high speed rail have pointed out that it was only a matter of time before such an accident happened, given the inherently dangerous nature of travelling at 100m/s so close to the ground. Whilst Tsunami's are not expected in Germany, the events in Japan show it is impossible to plan for every eventuality.

>> No.2841491
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2841491

Trains are horrible for the environment.

>> No.2841501

why didn't they just shut down the train after watching the weather report.

>> No.2841523 [DELETED] 

>>2841464
You best be joking, nig­ger.

>> No.2841535

>>2841464

Considering the only source I can find for this is a transport forum somewhere, I doubt how authentic it is.

Although I wouldn't put it past them. I'm sure there's people out there who would take us back to the stone age simply because fire's a risk

>> No.2841537 [DELETED] 

Is there ANY luddism that cannot be justified with Japan?
For fuck's sake, why am I even replying...

>> No.2841571

>>2841537

well at least i learned what luddism means

>> No.2841577

>>2841537
Because you're cross and frustrated. As am I.

Hopefully we'll all be using mag-lev someday...

Thinking out loud now, were these high speed rails referred to classic combustion engines and wheels? Would a mag-lev be better in a situation such as a tsunami/earthquake?

Could the tracks be flooded and the train still runs? Though I doubt they could travel semi-submerged. I also picture trains without on board engines to be substantially more buoyant.

>> No.2841581

This is so wrong in so many levels...

>Blame trains for tsunamis
>Doesn't say "cities are dangerous and should be abandoned because people died in tsunami"
Japanese trains shut down automatically when there is an earthquake
If you are worrying that trains are dangerous because of this you can't really use any other form of transportation.
You also can't use lectricity, nor live in house. A good bunker perhaps.
Earth is far to dangerous for humans. Better to move to empty space.

This is bullshit and you know it.
This is trolling and stupidity in one package

>> No.2841604

Man, so many anons are missing the obvious parallel...

>> No.2841612

>>2841577

A mag-lev going to same speed as a HST would probably fair better. It would be harder to derail from a mag-lev track that standard rails, and a lot easier to come to an emergency stop on a mag-lev by simply switching off the magnets and grinding along the track.

The only real issue I see is that a mag-lev would probably be going far faster than a HST, so it would probably come to more damage anyway.

>> No.2841614
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2841614

> but airplanes travel faster than 100m/s when landing!
> think they are safe
> see this
do not believe the lies of the transportation industry

>> No.2841622

Reported everyone who didn't get it.
Jesus christ how fucking dumb can people be.

Ever seen a car get hit by a meteor? Not even seatbelts can save you from that.
Ban cars. All the safety features in the world won't make them worth using. If only they were a safer form of transport, like walking, or motorcycling.

>> No.2841636

>>2841604
this.

jesus people.

>> No.2841641

>>2841636
what is it? the 100m/s thing?

>> No.2841644
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2841644

>>2841622
So you're saying that it's completely unheard of for a government to make a snap decision with potential long term problems but few short term ones based more on the whims of the screaming masses rather than on reasoned evidence?

>because that never happens

Also, while this is likely a troll/joke it is also an interesting point of contention and something that plays on the minds of many /sci/ducks. The cutting back of science/progress because of the fear in some short sighted individuals.

>>2841636
>>2841604
I'm really struggling here. Enlighten me.

>> No.2841646

>>2841641
1/3 the speed of sound, sounds reasonable for a high speed train.

>> No.2841654 [DELETED] 

>>2841644
Just replace the train with nuclear power.
Then the germany part makes sense

>> No.2841652

>>2841646
the thing is, we simply ignored the bullshit and made comments on the other reasonable things.

>> No.2841656

>>2841646
shinkansen maximum speed
581 km/h = 161.388889 meters / second

>> No.2841659

>>2841644
Just replace the train with nuclear power.
Then the germany part makes sense
(Germany is considering giving up the nuclear power, thanks a lot faggots)

>> No.2841665

>>2841646
>>2841646
shinkansen maximum speed
581 km/h = 161.388889 meters / second

>> No.2841676
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2841676

>>2841654
Oh yeah, read about that, got upset, turned computer off, went outside, too bright, went back inside and booted up the computer again.

Shit's not cash, but that's the shit governments do. Betting oil company leverage doesn't do nuclear many favours in Germany, but that might just be because I watched Zeitgeist a month or so ago and am still on the paranoia comedown.

>>2841656
>>2841665
Not even an order of magnitude out. Pretty good.

>> No.2841679

>>2841641
>>2841644

nuclear power.

the disaster in japan is literally unprecedented, and people are using it as an argument against nuclear power.

>> No.2841693
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2841693

Stones are by far the most dangerous and evil things on this planet.
I've just seen a person being killed by one recently.

Pulverize all those little fuckers!

>> No.2841709

>>2841464
>Germany is to consider the closure of it's high speed rail network

Pure bull, and you know it.

>> No.2841715

>>2841709
WOOSH

>> No.2841721
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2841721

Why do people spend billions on high speed rail instead of dead straight low incline freight rail? Most of the economy productivity of rail comes from freight, passenger rail is usually a white elephant in most countries.

>> No.2841737

>>2841721
Because trains are cool.

>> No.2841763

>>2841721
High-speed trains allow for one-city-effects where you can functionally bake several cities into one gigantic one as you can travel a few hundred kms in 30 minutes. The rail itself might not earn massive profits but the increased productivity the city can gain from it offset it.

I spend 30 minutes every morning on a rickety tram to get to work that's 2kms away. If i could spend 30 minutes on a bullet train to travel from a small town to the center a busy capital Instead then suddenly some economic doors opens that previously were closed.

There's a little problem of course, that you can't really stop such a train everywhere. However, there's a concept to allow everyone along such a track to enter the speeding train by using a large bullettrain as the main transport going from A to B without ever stopping, but using microshuttles(essenitally tiny trains) that can temporarily accelerate to equal speed and dock to the large train and offload a small portion of additional travellers before detaching and circling back to fetch more people for the next bullet passing by. Such a system would essentially allow a city to function without any permanent residents as everyone can live in rural nodes scattered around the rail-lines in to the city.

>> No.2841779

>>2841763
Especially if air travel is phased out and replaced with ultrafast mag-levs in tubes.

>> No.2841787

>>2841763
You can already do that with planes. Why should we spend billions to get something we already have. Especially when that's billions less for something else, like the NSF or NASA.

>> No.2841804

>>2841721
Because people like to get to places fast. In densely populated countries like France, Germany or Japan it's easy to summon enough passengers to make it economical, while in e.g. the Nordic countries public transport happens more by bus and the railroads are maintained just enough to keep them fit for 10km/h travel.

>> No.2841822

>>2841787

The problem with planes is that you can't easily get into the city center with them, as their station takes up several square kilometers.

The time you waste getting a bus or light rail into the city, compounded with the time spent passing through security at airports also makes planes slower for the journeys of a few hundred miles.

>> No.2841847

>>2841763
>the increased productivity the city can gain from it offset it
So why aren't people willing to pay for it? Even with the healthy start ups and that have been poured into high speed rail over the decades?

It's time to move on to something else and any accountant will tell you freight is your biggest asset and will get bigger as the price of crude gradually rises.

Seriously, stop your dogmatic love of high speed rail and start building dead straight rail, enough of that wavy wriggly shit I see on maps all the time, a straight line is the shortest distance, build it. For all you know it might make your precious high speed rail profitable because they would only need to lay the track next to the freight rail and most of the infrastructure will be in place along the line already.

>> No.2841871

>>2841787
I can arrive 5 minutes before the train leaves to the central station in the middle of the city, get aboard and find my seat, whip out my laptop and connect to train WiFi. Train accelerates smoothly and i feel hardly anything, nice scenery swishing by.
When it arrives. I leave the train, and 3 minutes later i'm outside the train station, and 15 later i'm at work.

That's not possible with aircraft.

>>2841779
If we create maglev-vacuum tubes there's nothing that prevents trains from reaching ORBITAL velocities at sea level. Imagine sitting in a train, when you suddenly notice that you're in free fall, like holyshitmylaptopislevitating!!!

>> No.2841878

>>2841847
Stupidity, ignorance and media.

People don't see the long term benefits only the short term costs.

Also how are you comparing fast and straight rails? They can be both if there is suport from the goverment and we could bulldoze buildings that are in the way.

>> No.2842093

I hope OP is raped in the ass in Africa and given AIDS.

Srsly I hate luddites these days and their 2012 counter parts.

>> No.2844188

> monbiot's writings on nuclear power
> see the comments
so what if it kills people when they are this retarded