Why do electrons move like waves again?

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Anonymous Sat Jul 22 06:50:34 2023 No.15579376 [Reply] [Original]

Why do electrons move like waves again?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 06:52:53 2023 No.15579384 Because they smoll. Be nice to them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 06:53:50 2023 No.15579387 Well they only move like waves when you aren't looking at them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 06:54:22 2023 No.15579388 >>15579387 Fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 06:56:20 2023 No.15579389 >>15579388 It's just the science bro don't shoot the messenger.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 06:57:35 2023 No.15579394 >>15579388 Why? That is the correct answer.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 06:59:15 2023 No.15579399 >>15579389 >>15579394 If you're fucking stupid.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:01:37 2023 No.15579403 >>15579399 he is right, how fucking stupid are you? stop making threads you stupid nigger

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:03:23 2023 No.15579405 >>15579403 bodhi? The occultlarping idiot? You're fucking stupid. Looking at an electron doesn't change its behavior. Any physics PhD will tell you that. Only pop sci believes consciousness affects electrons.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:03:59 2023 No.15579407

>>15579399
you are emotionally triggered, your use of profanity tips that off. you're not capable of thinking rationally about this topic, you're too immature and infantile. you break out in tantrums whenever your emotionally drive beliefs are contradicted.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:05:05 2023 No.15579408 File: 2.72 MB, 240x234, joker5.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15579405 >reeeeee everyone look at the stupid nigger blow a gasket

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:08:27 2023 No.15579414

>>15579407
Okay, fucker, explain how consciousness affects the path of an electron. Use logic and evidence. Guess what. You fucking never will because that's delusional. Dualism is true and consciousness has zero effect on the universe. And I'll say fuck all I want.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:10:21 2023 No.15579418 >>15579407 >>15579408 Pilpul.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:14:13 2023 No.15579425 >>15579414 You do know that observing a particle doesn't literally mean looking at them with your eyeballs? Please tell me you're not that stupid. That would be embarrassing.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:16:14 2023 No.15579428

>>15579405
>Looking at an electron doesn't change its behavior. Any physics PhD will tell you that.
Physics PhD here. It's a bit of a popsci simplification, but it's not wrong. You cannot look without interaction. And with interaction, you change the behaviour. You could "look" by bombarding the electron with photons. The electron-photon-interaction is not described by wave-like behaviour but by particle-like behaviour.
So you don't change the behaviour with the observation itself but with something that's a requirement for the observation.
REEEEing because of that is even more retarded than making this oversimplification.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:17:16 2023 No.15579431 >>15579425 >embarrassing Yes very serious. I better be stupid like you so I don't get embarrassed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:18:43 2023 No.15579435 >>15579428 That's correct and also why I don't like calling it observation. Interference changes the path of an electron NOT literal observation.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:20:54 2023 No.15579441 >>15579428 >So you don't change the behaviour with the observation itself That is your opinion, not a fact. Von neuman and Wigner (and many others) disagreed and there are experiments by Dean Radin that prove you wrong

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:20:59 2023 No.15579442 >>15579435 That's not interference, it's an interaction. >>15579431 So you are proudly admitting to be ignorant and wanting to stay that way. That's certainly a choice.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:23:38 2023 No.15579445 File: 44 KB, 479x361, oh wait.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15579441 > there are experiments by Dean Radin that prove you wrong never heard of him, let me look him up. > Dean Radin investigates phenomena in parapsychology. lmfao

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:23:58 2023 No.15579446 >>15579442 White people don't say ignorant.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:25:47 2023 No.15579449 >>15579442 >if you're correct you're ignorant Lmao. Am I supposed to be wrong so I'm not """embarrassed"""? MAGIC EYEBALLZ CONTROL DA ELECTRONS GUISE SEE HOW NON EMBARRASSING I AM!!!

bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:25:51 2023 No.15579450
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>>15579445
you can lol all you want but you cant prove him wrong. He is a well respected scientist from Princeton and does research at a well respected institute whereas you dont even who Von Neuman and Wigner are.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:26:59 2023 No.15579452 >>15579450 dont even *know

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:27:54 2023 No.15579456 >>15579450 >>15579442 You're both faggots. The phd even came and proved you wrong just like I predicted. Stop popsci.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:27:56 2023 No.15579457 >>15579450 I know who Von Neuman and Wigner are and the ideas you are referencing. That was over 80 years ago in the early days of QM, and guess what, they were wrong. It has been proven endlessly in the decades since then.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:29:39 2023 No.15579461 >>15579457 no, it hasnt, you are a fraud and an idiot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSBaq3vAeY >>15579456 stfu stupid nigger adults are talking

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:30:24 2023 No.15579462

>>15579435
>>15579442
I think that anon didn't mean interference as in "interference pattern" but as in "don't interfere with my work".
Which is funny, because while it's completely understandable and okay that people use such words wrongly in a non-/less-scientific setting, he's the one whose ass hurts when people say things wrong.
>>15579441
That's just one of the interpretations and by what I can tell not a widespread one today.
>Radin ignored the known hoaxes in the field, made statistical errors and ignored plausible non-paranormal explanations for parapsychological data.
gtfo

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:30:58 2023 No.15579464 >>15579461 Yes, very serious. Adults are busy being stupid just like South Park adults.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:32:01 2023 No.15579466 >>15579462 >look at this first thing I found on jewgle said! you are a hack fuck off stupid nigger. Post what you claim here >It has been proven endlessly in the decades since then. You cant because there is none and you are a hack fraud

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:32:51 2023 No.15579468 File: 190 KB, 414x319, schizo thread.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15579461 take your meds

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:34:21 2023 No.15579470 File: 22 KB, 128x128, pepels.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15579468 you got dunked on and tea bagged

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:34:52 2023 No.15579471 >>15579470 Very serious. How embarrassing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:35:21 2023 No.15579472 >>15579414 why don't you take a break from the board and try to calm down a little, get control of your emotions and come back only when you're ready to discuss science with us on a strictly rational basis

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:35:27 2023 No.15579473

>>15579457
>That was over 80 years ago
Over 90, actually. Bodhi is a braindead namefag. I wonder why he even uses his name because 99% of what he writes is dumb. If he just posted anonymously, people could try to take him seriously every time, but by namefagging he already tells us we can dismiss what he writes.
>>15579466
>Post what you claim here
>>It has been proven endlessly in the decades since then.
I never claimed that. I'm also not a quantum physicist but a particle physicist. My knowledge in quantum physics comes from lectures and textbooks. So instead of me going through my old textbooks again to show you something you won't accept, why don't you read them for the first time and try to actually understand them?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:35:46 2023 No.15579474 >>15579461 And this children is why some people will never grow up to be scientists.

bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:38:02 2023 No.15579476
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>>15579474
I was teaching University while you were in grade school. I am a multi millionaire currency trader, enjoy your wage slaving for peanuts though. I am sure it will be all that you hope it will and you wont want to kys in a decade.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:40:47 2023 No.15579480 >>15579476 Shit, he completely lost his mind. Anons, we broke bodhi just like that South African angular momentum guy.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:41:31 2023 No.15579481 >>15579473 The books that didnt teach you who Von Neuman and Wigner are?

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:43:25 2023 No.15579484 >>15579473 btw it is literally impossible to ever prove consciousness doesnt effect it since it takes a conscious person to do the experiment you fucking half wit

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:46:27 2023 No.15579487 >>15579484 We already proved that. Science affirms dualism unless you're a zombie puppet who doesn't have consciousness then science might as well disprove consciousness to you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:47:23 2023 No.15579490 >>15579476 I originally thought you were a troll, now we all can see you have serious mental problems. You genuinely a nutjob. Stay safe and follow the safety labels kiddo.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:47:48 2023 No.15579491 File: 1.79 MB, 355x343, joker6.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15579487 >That was over 80 years ago in the early days of QM, and guess what, they were wrong. It has been proven endlessly in the decades since then. keep on back peddling

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:48:40 2023 No.15579494

So a better way to describe it is that electrons exist fuzzily over a large area. If something like a photon passes through its area, then the electron may (based on a probability) narrow down its existence for a moment to interact with it. And only narrow down just enough for the given wavelength of the photon.
Is that correct?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:48:52 2023 No.15579495 >>15579491 Wat? We proved consciousness DOESN'T affect the experiment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:50:17 2023 No.15579499 >>15579494 So it's not a particle that moves like a wave. It's lightning that interacts like a particle.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:50:31 2023 No.15579500 File: 33 KB, 400x544, anon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15579495 >we proved something that is impossible to prove great work retard. keep at it. Next you will prove the sun doenst shine!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:50:32 2023 No.15579501 >>15579491 Are you ESL? It would explain a lot.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:50:52 2023 No.15579502

>>15579481
Physics textbooks don't teach you who people were, they teach you physics. That being said, I know the two and both names are actually mentioned in textbooks. Off the top of my head, Wigner rings a bell due to the Breit-Wigner distribution (again, from textbooks) and I know Von Neumann mainly from compsci stuff. I couldn't tell you what defines a Von Neumann architecture anymore, but I had to learn it for a lecture called "introduction to computer science". So you're wrong again.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:51:32 2023 No.15579503 >>15579501 no but you are clearly retarded

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 07:54:39 2023 No.15579504 >>15579502 All my textbooks taught me who everyone that made important contributions to my field were. Who do you think is stupid enough to believe this retarded nonsense? stfu you stupid fucking dipshit

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:57:19 2023 No.15579506 >>15579504 you're funny. keep us entertained some more please with all your nonsense.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 07:59:50 2023 No.15579511

>>15579494
I'm reluctant to say that it's entirely correct, but I don't see anything obviously wrong. It's something I could say, but I'm aware that I might say things that are slightly incorrect or not general.
The biggest problem with that statement I have is
>And only narrow down just enough for the given wavelength of the photon.
My feeling is that this is more of an "order of magnitude" effect than exact maths. I wouldn't be surprised about a factor 2 or 4pi or sqrt(12) popping up if you actually define what "narrow it down" means and do the calculation. But for all practical purposes the "wavelength of the light is approximately the resolution" suffices. You won't see HI viruses with an optics microscope (a factor ~4-8 smaller than the wavelength of visible light), but you can see sperm cells (a factor ~10 bigger than the wavelength). Everything around the wavelength seems difficult and the results will be shitty at best. That's why you'd just use a better microscope (SEM, AFM...) instead of calculating theoretical limits.
t. experimentalist

bodhi Sat Jul 22 08:00:14 2023 No.15579512
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>>15579506
>physics is the only major in any University anywhere, in the history of higher learning, that doesnt teach you who the important contributors to that field of knowledge are

>>	Barkun Sat Jul 22 08:01:33 2023 No.15579514 Fix the sun before it plodes

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:02:09 2023 No.15579515 >>15579514 No.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:03:10 2023 No.15579517

>>15579504
Do Indian textbooks really have sections like
>Bose was born in Kolkata, the eldest of seven children in a Bengali Kayastha family. He was the only son, with six sisters after him. His ancestral home was in the village Bara Jagulia, in the district of Nadia, in the Bengal Presidency. His schooling began at the age of five, near his home. When his family moved to Goabagan, he was admitted into the New Indian School. In his final year of school, he was admitted into the Hindu School.

Not trolling here, but my textbooks really rarely mentioned the scientists behind the names of theorems or distributions. Only the most important ones like Fermi were mentioned as people, and then without much detail. More like "this led Fermi to the hypothesis that..". And neither Von Neumann, nor Wigner were mentioned as people, just in the of the things I listed above.

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 08:05:45 2023 No.15579521 >>15579517 Im not Indian and the whole point of 100 and 200 level courses is to first teach you the history of whatever you are studying.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:06:24 2023 No.15579522 >>15579414 its okay, just take a deep breath and calm down we know thats what happens we just dont have the exact mechanism yet do you agree with the general idea of action at a distance i.e. gravity, light, quantum entanglement?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:07:47 2023 No.15579523 >>15579521 Clearly you have never taken any real courses.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:08:06 2023 No.15579524 >>15579428 wait so "looking" state refers to the presence of photons, and "not-looking" means there are no photons in the locality of the electron?

>>	bodhi Sat Jul 22 08:08:42 2023 No.15579525 >>15579523 clearly you are a fraud and an idiot who doesnt know even the basics about how University works

>>	Barkun Sat Jul 22 08:09:50 2023 No.15579527 >>15579515 I need poo then

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:11:19 2023 No.15579532

>>15579517
You're not wrong. All my lectures and text books never covered any history of physics. I don't know of any university that teaches that as part of their curriculum. I learnt most of it in my own time when researching the development of QM and then QFT.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:11:37 2023 No.15579533 >>15579522 See >>15579428 It's not a matter of an invisible distant force. It's the photons we use to analyze the electrons affecting the electrons. In short, you're an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:12:21 2023 No.15579535 >>15579525 rly? then tell us the university you attended and what courses taught you such things?

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:14:41 2023 No.15579536

>>15579521
Then I have no idea where to place the name Bodhi.
>the whole point of 100 and 200 level courses is to first teach you the history of whatever you are studying.
Yeah, same here in Europe (only we don't call the courses 100 or 200, but introduction to). But we learn the history of the subject, not of the people. We learn classical mechanics, Lagrange and Hamilton formalism without learning anything about the lives of Lagrange and Hamilton. I wanted to give an example of their lives, so I opened up the wiki page and saw that Lagrange was Italian. I didn't even know that about him. I thought he was French and that Hamilton was English (actually Irish). That's how little I knew until a minute ago. I'm not bragging about my lack of knowledge, I'm telling you what they teach us here.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:15:21 2023 No.15579539 >>15579522 >le calm down >stupid poppy opinion >vague fishing for consent Demon confirmed. I cast you out in the name of Jesus or something.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:15:52 2023 No.15579540 >>15579524 You can also shoot photons without looking and the photons will interact with the electrons. It's more a "lights on or off" situation, not an "eyes open or closed" one.

>>	Barkun Sat Jul 22 08:18:50 2023 No.15579545 >>15579535 >Attends uni >Like a good goyim >Completely serious about it >Unaware of goyplot It must be absolute bliss to have a mind as stupid as yours

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:27:18 2023 No.15579549

>>15579532
I remember lecturers throwing in "fun facts", mainly in maths lectures. But the fact that Leibnitz and Newton came up with the same stuff and then had a fight about it doesn't change calculus for us. Or the fact that the current mainstream notation for derivatives and integrals was Leibnitz's notation and that Newton's notation for derivatives is only used for time derivatives in physics. That's not necessary to understand that "dot means d/dx", so it's not in textbooks. That's what the prof mumble a while cleaning the blackboard to keep the students' attention.
Fun fact: one of my maths profs told us how he was born in the Soviet Union and almost got sent to a school for mentally retarded kids because he refused to solve the maths exercises the kindergarten teachers gave them. Apparently he was too autistic and/or the exercises were too simple, so his parents had to bribe some officials to get him into a regular school.

That's all fun and makes for great part/blackboard cleaning/4channel banter, but it doesn't really appear in textbooks.

>>	Barkun Sat Jul 22 08:28:44 2023 No.15579550 >>15579549 You are a bloody textbook. You goon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:34:47 2023 No.15579560 >>15579550 What a clever comeback. You know who else had schizophrenia? Einstein's son. But that was probably in your textbooks about general relativity.

>>	Barkun Sat Jul 22 08:37:49 2023 No.15579567 >>15579560 As long as you read the textbook you "know" things, right? WRONG DOOFUS CHIME. You're fucking retarded. Kys now

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:47:02 2023 No.15579578 >>15579567 Wait, so textbooks are bad now? You were giving people shit for not learning John Von Neumann's dick size from textbooks. >>15579567

>>	Barkun Sat Jul 22 08:47:48 2023 No.15579579 >>15579578 >Learn >Textbook Pick one

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 08:52:20 2023 No.15579583 >>15579579 Your speech centre is visibly deteriorating.

>>	Barkun Sat Jul 22 08:53:32 2023 No.15579584 >>15579583 >You were told something >You learned something Apparently it's your center that's deteriorating Lol Don't reply to me you're not worth my time tardfag

>>	Barkun Sat Jul 22 08:54:33 2023 No.15579586 File: 81 KB, 370x500, 1683835380111075.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15579584

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 09:27:44 2023 No.15579614 >>15579584 >Apparently it's your center that's deteriorating My center? My belly button? Leave my belly button alone you creep.

>>	Barkun Sat Jul 22 09:43:49 2023 No.15579631 >>15579614 Derp

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:12:29 2023 No.15579674 >>15579407 observer theory is completely schizophrenic, in bad way

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:13:59 2023 No.15579675 since observing means interacting tell me faggots where is the cutoff distance of electron interaction? see youre stupid

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 16:21:30 2023 No.15580040 bros what are some good books for QM?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 17:28:00 2023 No.15580095 >>15579476 >WAS teaching University >multi millionaire currency trader - t. boomer who fell for crypto

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 17:32:00 2023 No.15580100 >>15579540 yeah idiot you dont need to say "also shoot photons" nor the contradistinction of "lights on/off"/"open/closed" because that was literally implied in the question genius

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 06:07:58 2023 No.15581252 >>15579675 4pi / R*e^2

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 07:54:23 2023 No.15581420 >>15581252 Based.

>>	bodhi Sun Jul 23 08:14:14 2023 No.15581443 >>15580095 t. poor dumbfuck who doesnt know what currency is

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 08:55:33 2023 No.15581520 >>15581443 >le currency es difficult concept so no one else understand it no youre just a retard who finds simple concepts difficult to grasp probably why you had to stop teaching at university

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