/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.12649756]

I just learned of the "Demon Core" incidents, where, no less than two times, esteemed scientists killed themselves, and injured others, because they played around with a lethal radiation source like it was a toy. Pic related is a recreation of one of these experiments. The outer shell is a neutron reflector, which would trigger a criticality in the radioactive core inside if it was allowed to cover the whole thing. And so the scientist just used a regular shitty screwdriver to hold the shell up to create a small gap on the side. Then of course, one day the screwdriver slipped, and he died of radiation poisoning a few days later.

My question is: How is it possible that these people could be such bright scientists but also so pants-on-head retarded at the same time?

[Anonymous No.12649776]

>>12649756

Because scientists are not science.

No man invented science, nothing a scientist says matters except for the things he is able to verify with science.

Stop idolizing scientists, it is the laws of physics that they study, their master is the laws of physics, they do not create or control science they just study it, and if they study it wrong, then they are bad scientists.

They have no real power, they only study and try to understand the things that do have power...

[Anonymous No.12649799]

>>12649756
They weren't playing with them, they were testing the cores criticality with the first death being a blunder and bad way of conducting the test and the second ignoring of safety protocol.

[Anonymous No.12649814]

>>12649799
The one guy did it in shorts and a cow boy hat, so yes they were playing while working.

[Anonymous No.12649823]

>>12649756
You don't know it, but you are pic related. You are everything that is wrong with the public's understanding of science.
Please understand that scientists are people, too. They are not these super-beings who are incapable of ignorance or bias. Some of them are idiots who got there through nepotism. Some of them are turbo-autists who are good at exactly one thing and have no common sense. Some of them are bastards who will misuse cancer research funding for their own gain. Some of them are politicians who will actively suppress data that disagrees with their life's work.
I say this to you in the hope that you change your perception of scientists. They are normal people with a strong knowledge of specific fields. Do not revere them.
>t. research chemist

[Anonymous No.12649831]

>>12649814
How does the clothes he likes to wear matter?

[Anonymous No.12649840]

>>12649831
Because it shows they weren't taking it seriously. Why wasn't there a third incident? Because one of the survivors made an automated rig (after his friends died), which they operated remotely from a quarter mile away.

[Anonymous No.12649846]

>>12649840
You sure you don't have autism?

[Anonymous No.12649850]

It's almost as if we didn't know how dangerous something is until someone fucks up for the first time.

[Anonymous No.12649862]

>>12649846
Yeah positive. Anxiety issues is all. Maybe a little biopolar/scizo from my dad. No autism.

[Anonymous No.12649876]

>>12649814
>The one guy did it in shorts and a cow boy hat
>ywn be one of the first nuclear scientists fucking around with a plutonium core in shorts and a cowboy hat

[Anonymous No.12649880]

The worst thing about the demon core incident is it makes Bob Lazar sound like a larping retard.

[Anonymous No.12650002]

>>12649880
the guy who died saved everyone at that base. when he slipped and realized that the core would go critical he used his bare hands to move the reflector while being absolutely aware that he radiated himself lethally.

[Anonymous No.12650050]

>>12649756
>demon core
If radiation wasn't understood, this thing would seriously be the most unbelievable /x/-tier story. It just reads like fucking fiction.
I know it doesn't sound crazy when you understand how it works, but just forget how radiation works for a moment and try read what fucking happened:
>the scientists play around with some magic rock in a lab. the rock got entrapped accidentally so the rock gets angry and causes a flash of blue light. everybody feels a heat wave and sour taste in their mouth. they were fine but all got sick and died several days later.

It's the same kind of spooky with elephant's foot.
>absolutely nobody could approach the elephant foot. everybody who did mysteriously got sick several days later and died. humans were so afraid of it that they built a huge sarcophagus to seal it forever.

And pretty much atomic energy in general
>so humans discover this powerful stone that can blow up a mountain, cause an earthquake, create an permanent 'death zone' where every living thing dies, and destroy every magical device in humanity's possession, so they revamp their entire collective global behavior surrounding the usage of that rock. they discover a way to use this stone to power their magical devices but it produces material that causes death which they


It doesn't sound spectacular when you know how fission causes radiation that damages DNA, but consider when eventually there is a nuclear war and humanity sent back to the stone age and humanity is bound to rediscover what it once had. In the mean time, some neo-stone age fag discovers the "ancient texts" and perhaps stumbles upon a nuclear waste facility and dies confirming those ancient texts. Us, the 'ancient ones', would be considered as literal gods even though today it doesn't seem impressive.

[Anonymous No.12650082]

>>12649823
underated post

[Anonymous No.12650101]

>>12649756
>esteemed scientists
They were murderous jews and what came to them was divine retribution.

[Anonymous No.12650114]

Anon even though their intuition is good it can still fail in dangerous and lethal environments. They aren’t gods.

[Anonymous No.12650129]

>>12649756
once a scientist dropped a reflective brick by mistake and triggered the criticality... yea quite dumb

[Anonymous No.12650131]

>>12649862
I have a little inherited bipolar/schizo as well and I strongly sympathize with your posts. It's also insane how many militaries tested effects on soldiers and deliberately exposed tons of them to ionizing radiation, without informing them of the risks or giving them any protection or treatment. I don't know if everyone just didn't give a shit about other people 50+ years ago due to all the war fears, or what

This is a really sad segment on soldiers deliberately exposed to radiation and the severe health effects and early deaths they suffered: https://youtu.be/dLSaFerdWQE

[Anonymous No.12650133]

Once again, scientists are just humans playing around with something they don't fully understand...

[Anonymous No.12650185]

The ancient Chinese found most of their ancient science by chance and intuition, it’s why they became stagnant later on.
Ideas from the Middle East to Greece to be stored in the Middle East to be sent to Central Europe and properly developed there created the scientific method and proofs. So now things were running still on chance and intuition but using proper methods, observation and interpretation with almost obsessive behaviour. All while these Central Europeans believed the world was logical as it was created by their God. Later many didn’t and we get the world wars and industrialisation.
Science is about finding what we can say about this world, engineering about what can be built from what we can say. And scientists have always disagreed, objectivity changes, information decays.
In our age now I’m guessing more scientists than have ever existed are alive simultaneously. The entire world was given these methods. And it has different beliefs so who knows what will happen.
So like every single person has said, scientists aren’t science or objective reality. They are what we can be say currently, and the best tools we have in this weird world where we don’t know where we are or what we are

[Anonymous No.12651168]

>>12649880
>Makes a larping retard sound like a larping retard
>Worst
wut

[Anonymous No.12651260]

>>12649756
OP do you think they put their cigarette butts in the dashboard ashtrays on the way to the lab, or were the seatbelts too restrictive and they just flicked 'em out the window?

[Anonymous No.12651526]

>>12649756
Because they didn't give two shits.
Also it doesn't really matter, since they're disposable manpower in the eyes of the government anyway.

[Anonymous No.12651579]

>>12649756
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJXwRdbbQ50

[Anonymous No.12651593]

>>12651579
Wish I could examine them before they died and perform an autopsy on them.

[Anonymous No.12651597]

[Anonymous No.12651617]

>both parents were scientists, absolutely imbued with the scientific method.
>grew up with education heavily empathizing science, logic, facts, proof, analytical thought, reasoning, impartiality.
>absolutely love the entire concept of science as a fundamental, non-dogmatic, philosophy which reveals the nature of existence. Like a mathematical limit, science approaches absolute truth without ever quite getting there, but always approaching. Its the closest we can come.
>Feel incredibly privileged that I grow up in an environment where society has freed itself from the shackles of superstition and incompetent reasoning.
>go to Uni to study hard sciences
>discover most of my fellow students are only aware of the scientific method in a very superficial way. They can regurgitate what they learn, but they dont have any innate knowledge of the concepts, nor of applying unbiased scientific reasoning to the world
>Discover many of my fellow students, and many of the professors, somehow manage to subscribe to the idea of science yet somehow remain stubborn and obstinate in their beliefs. A theory is a fact to them. They remain closed minded to anything which challenges the orthodoxy, often hostile in their attitude towards different or new ideas. They remind me more of the reactionary religious fanatics who ruthlessly oppressed any view outside the church doctrines. Many of the posters on this forum are much the same.
>Come to understand that many are only in science for the money, ego, social connections, social status. Many are simply just dull minded but have sufficient cells in their brains to pass exams. Many get by as a result of academic institutions dropping their standards in order to make money out of fees.
And that is when I realized we are still living in the dark ages.

[Anonymous No.12651618]

>>12650050
re: your last paragraph
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz

[Anonymous No.12652636]

>>12649756
Imagine holding that thing with some armor on and running through a low income neighborhood as fast as you can! SHIIIIIEETTTTTT I WOULD RUN FROM THE BRONX TO OAKLAND IF I COULD

[Anonymous No.12652655]

>>12649756
A scientist is knowledgeable about a specific subject area, that doesn't stop them being fucking retards in general
T. Retard

[Anonymous No.12652794]

>>12649756
>>My question is: How is it possible that these people could be such bright scientists but also so pants-on-head retarded at the same time?
Testosterone, particularly in the case of Slotin. These were young men working on the most important projects in the world, I think it went to some of their heads. This was not the only time Slotin endangered himself with the apparent assumption that a tough macho attitude would keep him safe:
>In the winter of 1945–1946, Slotin shocked some of his colleagues with a bold action. He repaired an instrument six feet under water inside the Clinton Pile while it was operating, rather than wait an extra day for the reactor to be shut down. He did not wear his dosimetry badge, but his dose was estimated to be at least 100 roentgen.[12] A dose of 1 Gy (~100 roentgen) can cause nausea and vomiting in 10% of cases, but is generally survivable.[13]
Slotin's behavior was borderline suicidal. He was the second guy killed by the demon core fyi, so he was playing around with something that had already killed one of his colleagues.

[Anonymous No.12652797]

>>12649799
The "experiment" was always more of a stunt done to impress others, hence the audience and the disregard for safety protocol.

[Anonymous No.12652804]

>>12652794
>six feet underwater
Did... did he actually dive into the cooling pool?

[Anonymous No.12652812]

>>12652804
Yep. He'd probably be famous for that monumentally retarded stunt, if his other stunt with the core didn't completely ellipse it.

[Anonymous No.12652824]

>>12652794
The first one who died was also very young, just 24 or 25 I think

[Anonymous No.12652892]

>>12650133
In this case they understood. They know what would happen if they fucked up. They still fucked up.

[Anonymous No.12652905]

>>12651597
>>12651526
>>12649814
Why are there so many demon core weeb references?

[Anonymous No.12652912]

>>12650050
>when eventually there is a nuclear was and humanity gets sent back the stone age

Oh look another dumbass that has no idea how nuclear war works.

[Anonymous No.12653000]

>>12652905
4channel is an anime website.

[Anonymous No.12653132]

>>12653000
Yes but why the demon core

[Anonymous No.12653134]

>>12653132
bomb cores are cute

[Anonymous No.12653135]

>>12649756
To fuck around is human, to find out is divine (demonic)

[Anonymous No.12653138]

>>12649756
Because you are a pussy and they weren't. Hence the difference in work results.

[Anonymous No.12653170]

>>12650050
Radiation is just magic, even when you do understand it. If you see the light of the demon core, you will die. You are cursed with death. It is a cursed object.
We understand the mechanism by which exposure to these cursed objects is fatal, but that doesn't change the fact that if you are standing in the same room as the elephant's foot you have been cursed with certain death.

[Anonymous No.12653184]

>>12652905
The demon core is a culturally significant thing in Japan.
It's like schrodinger's cat or quantum entanglement, popsci buzzwords and iconography that are recognized and memed about, if not understood.

[Anonymous No.12653244]

>>12649756
It's a chad thing, you wouldn't understand.

[Anonymous No.12655121]

>>12649756
complacency
https://commoncause.cfmeu.org.au/2020/02/12/drift-into-failure-how-complacency-kills-miners/

[Anonymous No.12656346]

>>12649756
>why do some people that work in risky fields have a high risk tolerance
Some people are enjoy risk, I know because I'm one of them. Some go too far and get themselves killed.

[Anonymous No.12656355]

>>12652905
Japs are interested in all things nuclear, it's almost as if their national identity has been shaped by nuclear power in some way....

[Anonymous No.12657533]

>>12651617
And they are writing papers...
Reviewing papers
Managing researchers
Advising politicians
NGO boards setting global policies...

[Anonymous No.12657633]

What does it mean to "go critical."
What would have happened if he had just run out the room and not grabbed the cover?

[Anonymous No.12657918]

>>12649814
>Working like a stylish muthafucka
Ftfy

[Anonymous No.12658032]

>>12652905
There's the odd Demon Core thread on /a/ every once in a while. I suggest looking in the archives or starting one for a lot of OC

[Anonymous No.12658664]

>>12657633
the material releases neutrons as it decays
if it absorbs neutrons, the decay rate increases
the cover around the core reflected neutrons back at the core, making it decay faster
it goes critical when enough neutrons are reflected back to make the decay exponentially faster
its a split second process; he was dead the moment the cover fell off
him grabbing the cover off saved the lives of those around him

[Anonymous No.12658722]

The core did literally nothing wrong, the humans were deliberately negligent and there's nothing inherently "evil" about radiation. It's also not the plutonium's fault that humans are bitch made.

[Anonymous No.12658880]

[Anonymous No.12658952]

>>12652912
how does it work?

[Anonymous No.12658987]

>>12657633
It would have melted and seeped away until not enough mass was left to sustain the reaction

[Anonymous No.12659125]

>>12658952
fuckin magnets bro

[Anonymous No.12660512]

>>12649823
>>12651617
>>12657533
Well played. Almost ingenious.
>>12652794
>Slotin's behavior was borderline suicidal.
Obvious enough, yet it's the almost unbelievably lax supervision after the first death that takes the whole story to the next level of sick.

[Anonymous No.12662429]

Help me understand...
the core was like a hollowed out sphere. And to make this mass critical, a rod would be dropped into the hole. And this guy dropped the rod too quickly and it caused a burst of radiation? How does this work?

[Anonymous No.12662484]

>>12662429
No, the core is not hollow. The outer shell in the experiment is a separate object, which would make the core inside critical if it covered it completely (by reflecting all the radiated neutrons from the core back inside).

[Anonymous No.12662613]

>>12662484
So the core is like a solid sphere and there is a shell that covers up the core. The criticality of the core is controlled by the degree the outer shell encloses the core. it was the outer shell which was dropped that caused the incident?

[Anonymous No.12662617]

>>12662613
Yes, in that particular experiment.