The Venus Project

[Anonymous No.12373324]

Is it attainable in a realistic manner? Can we as a society just shift our economy away from currency and materialism?

[Anonymous No.12373325]

Not anymore

[Anonymous No.12373329]

>>12373324
Yes, just do a command economy. Have a central authority giving things to people and also telling them what to do. Like in the army, you follow orders but also eat and live in the barracs. Basically a slave except it could have a high living standard.

[Anonymous No.12373334]

>>12373324
Who else believe that people who worship technology should get there own land?

[Anonymous No.12373341]

>>12373334
Yeah on the cyber cotton farm.

[Anonymous No.12373342]

>>12373329
>Basically a slave except it could have a high living standard.
We're already slaves. Most people work paycheck to paycheck and waste their life acquiring more money instead of having fun or pursuing greater goals like serving the nation and humanity and acquiring more skills

[Anonymous No.12373364]

China.

[Anonymous No.12373402]

>>12373364
Really? I thought it was the Kikes and the Elite not wanting their power and influence to slip away because money would go away

[Anonymous No.12373405]

>>12373402
Oh I saw everyone talking about functional slavey, so I thought I should mention China.

[Anonymous No.12373425]

>>12373324
>Can we as a society just shift our economy away from currency and materialism?
sounds like you want to move a really heavy cabinet.
how much economic influence is there without super rich and lobbying? none.
and how much economy is there without people? none.
if we are in agreement we can do and leave whatever we want.

politicians always emphasize the free market when it comes to laws that restrict the profits of companies.
for example, when it comes to workers rights, environmental protection or animal welfare.
as soon as there is a economic crisis, a pandemic or its some key industry of a country aid packages are spread out.
this is the same as a planned economy but no politician ever calles it like that.
we are being taken for fools.

[Anonymous No.12373468]

>>12373341
Oh anon little did you know. My cyber-cotton farm would contain earthles plants grown in an nutrient haze, supported by silver wire holding them high up into the air under an ever shining neon sun.

[Anonymous No.12373477]

>>12373324
>Can we as a society just shift our economy away from currency and materialism?
not only we can, we must or we will be destroyed

[Anonymous No.12373479]

>>12373329
you think you aren't already a slave? some people in America are literally living in cuck-capsules isn't that slavery?

[Anonymous No.12373480]

>>12373324
How do you effectively manage hundreds of millions of people?

[Anonymous No.12373772]

>>12373480
We're not a herd of cats I'm pretty sure 99% of these people have common sense and you can just talk it out

[Anonymous No.12373778]

I mean if you live like this you're probably a reasonable person

[Anonymous No.12373875]

>>12373772
Never met a smart person who used the term common sense

[Anonymous No.12373901]

>>12373772
Who is going to go around and talk it out?what if talking it out doesn't work?

[Anonymous No.12373916]

I'm failing to see how this is different from a centrally planned economy. In particular, the videos on the website don't explain how you stop one dickhead from claiming all of the resources.

If only there was some sort of universally recognized system of exchange, so you could "sell" the resources you produce and "buy" the resources you need.

Without something like that, they need to seriously explain how they plan to distribute resources that doesn't involve a Central Committee. I'd be fine if they said they want an AI-led government or something, that's pretty technological.

Sadly their economic plans aren't laid out at all in their website, they just have concept art photos of sci-fi cities.

[Anonymous No.12375262]

>>12373324
>Can we as a society just shift our economy away from currency and materialism?
Sure, but it needs new cybernetic mechanisms that include lots of sensors and verification-mechanisms.

TVP may be good to get you started thinking "outside the box" / about root-problems but they're pretty much useless in terms of relevant implementation. In some ways they are overly specific while they don't constructively contribute to the relevant science, tech and culture despite of that.

Neither China, nor conspiracy theorists, nor populist leaders, nor companies will implement this. Mostly >>>/g/

[Anonymous No.12375266]

>>12373916
>I'm failing to see how this is different from a centrally planned economy. In particular, the videos on the website don't explain how you stop one dickhead from claiming all of the resources.
Reputation, repercussions/feedback and(/or) specific resources- and purpose-related processing.

[Anonymous No.12375294]

>>12373324
Nope unless like 80% of rich countries decide to all do it. So never.

[Anonymous No.12376103]

>>12373324
A good rule of thumb is if their architucture only looks good from a distance, they haven't thought things through enough. Only trust people whos architecture is COMFY

[Anonymous No.12376136]

>>12376103
>comfy
>no bridges or even rope swings at ground level
No thanks I prefer not getting water rash from constantly having to swim across every "road"

[Anonymous No.12376148]

>>12376103

[Anonymous No.12376274]

>>12373468

Your contracts with cyber-retailers will be outsourced to Venezuelans

[Anonymous No.12376286]

>>12373324
This looks like a group of people that flat earthers can tell them to take their pills

[Anonymous No.12376966]

>>12373324
Are we still talking about this stupud shit? Is 2008 back?

Please kill me.

[Anonymous No.12376968]

>>12376966
I wish we'd stop talking and actually do it already
>https://www.thevenusproject.com/

[Anonymous No.12376971]

>>12376968
Who is "we?" Only complete retards believe in this utopian garbage.

>muh pretty pictures

[Anonymous No.12376991]

>>12376971
It's not really impossible anon or even hard if those in power really wanted to do it

[Anonymous No.12377002]

>>12376991
There is nothing to do, it's not even a plan. It's nothing but a vague concept meant to brainwash gullible idiots into wasting time promoting a website and donating money. Are you really this delusional?

[Anonymous No.12377014]

>>12377002
Has anyone even tried this sort of thing?

[Anonymous No.12377027]

>>12377014
There is no "thing"

[Anonymous No.12377043]

>>12373324
yes but would require discipline so not likely. economics isnt really about money, thats just an abstraction that helps people. economics really about energy exchange, if you could create a watt dollar and strictly regulate exhanges to prevent abuse you could make a true energy based economy

[Anonymous No.12377047]

One hierarchy would be replaced by another, but thats not a bad thing.

[Anonymous No.12377053]

>>12377027
No money or currency of any form and everyone just gets a share of the great pile of resources we all have, everyone stops working just to make ends meet financially and instead work towards a greater cause and serving his nation. You can be creative just for the sake of advancing your nation instead of spending your time and energy to find ways to make money
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYodgWapmgc

[Anonymous No.12377057]

>>12377047
It is inevitable but as you said that's not necessarily a bad thing
>>12377043
This

[Anonymous No.12377079]

>>12376148
Everything in that pic that looks good is not a building

[Anonymous No.12377109]

>>12377053
>No money or currency of any form and everyone just gets a share of the great pile of resources we all have
That just makes efficient use of resources harder. No one needs or can use most types of resources. Giving them to everyone is inefficient and they'll need to immediately trade resources but how do they do that without money? How do they know they're getting a fair deal without prices? What purpose does no money serve besides sounding nice?

>everyone stops working just to make ends meet financially and instead work towards a greater cause
We already had economies where everyone (was supposed to) get what they needed to live automatically. Somehow that didn't work. People don't need resources, they need goods. Goods don't get made by good will, they get made because people want things. Ignoring human motivations doesn't make them go away.

[Anonymous No.12377130]

>>12377109
>they'll need to immediately trade resources
No I mean everything you need is available already so you don't have to trade or pay for anything which would free up some much needed space to do other actually productive things.
>We already had economies where everyone (was supposed to) get what they needed to live automatically.
We did? When was that?
>they get made because people want things. Ignoring human motivations doesn't make them go away.
So? The clothes designer would be free to design away and the factories, with automation and some human volunteers to fill the blanks(they work because they feel the need to be productive and the government points them there) will work to make it so, eventually reaching the wearer who, after being satisfied, would move on to be more productive

[Anonymous No.12377196]

>>12377130
>No I mean everything you need is available already
Wow, amazing. Just like that huh? This is not a plan, just a wish. And who gets the other stuff?

>We did?
USSR, China, North Korea.

>The clothes designer would be free to design away and the factories, with automation and some human volunteers to fill the blanks(they work because they feel the need to be productive and the government points them there)
LOL

[Anonymous No.12377221]

>>12377196
>USSR
Had currency and was capitalist in all but name
>China
Has currency and is capitalist in all but name
>North Korea
Retarded military dictatorship and we have no idea how they're doing besides western propaganda
>Just like that huh?
Yes. Volunteer workers with minimal shift hours will get the raw materials and be replaced by others when their shift is over because we have alot of people on this planet so that probably can be done without harming production. The factories will sort them out again using automation and volunteer workers, and so on and so on
>And who gets the other stuff?
What other stuff?

[Anonymous No.12377261]

>>12377221
>Had currency and was capitalist in all but name
What does currency have to do with falling to give everyone everything they need? And no they weren't capitalist, they were extreme command economies.

>Volunteer workers
LOL.

>What other stuff?
Other resources?

None of this a plan. The only thing you're actually proposing is getting rid of money and that will somehow make everything else happen. You're more retarded than I thought.

[Anonymous No.12377267]

>>12373324
>another commie utopia project

These never fucking work because of human nature

[Anonymous No.12377268]

so just EPCOT 2.0?

[Anonymous No.12377283]

>>12377261
>hat does currency have to do with falling to give everyone everything they need?
Everything. It was all a lie to keep their people in power
>they weren't capitalist
Chinese companies are some of the biggest in the world now and the Soviet Union after 1956 was pretty much just as Russia is today
>Volunteer workers
If you're not willing to get off your ass and work for your nation then the government will just point you to where you can be useful
>Other resources?
Whoever and wherever it is needed or wanted
>None of this a plan
That's why I'm asking if it is possible in a realistic manner

[Anonymous No.12377285]

>>12377268
Yes
>>12377267
Elaborate

[Anonymous No.12377294]

>>12377285
>Elaborate

No.

[Anonymous No.12377480]

>>12377267
>muh human nature
you do realize that humand are by nature social creatures relying on others and that mutual aid is part of what made us so powerful, right?

[Anonymous No.12377498]

>>12377283
>Everything. It was all a lie to keep their people in power
That doesn't answer my question.

>Chinese companies are some of the biggest in the world now and the Soviet Union after 1956 was pretty much just as Russia is today
And?

>If you're not willing to get off your ass and work for your nation then the government will just point you to where you can be useful
Sounds like you took all the worst parts of socialism and fascism and combined them.

>Whoever and wherever it is needed or wanted
There aren't enough resources to do that. Resource allocation is not something you can fix by waving a magic wand.

>That's why I'm asking if it is possible in a realistic manner
It doesn't even approach the level of something which could be conceptually tested.

[Anonymous No.12377569]

>>12376136
low bridges would block boats
rope swings would be too distracting - they are cat girls after all

[Anonymous No.12377588]

>real communism has never been tried!

[Anonymous No.12377628]

>>12377588
checked

[Anonymous No.12377991]

>>12373324
no, this is fantasy nonsense, like interstellar colonies or "o neil cylinders"

[Anonymous No.12378094]

>>12377267
>everything I dont know about is communism
you dont know about capitalism kid. face it.

[Anonymous No.12378557]

>>12373324
That project consists of nothing more than fancy pictures of high-tech building programs coupled with the typically socialistic naivety of believing in the good of men. You just cannot have your magic dream world on a globe with finite resources filled with greedy human beings that are all going to want the very best it has to offer.

[Anonymous No.12379041]

>>12378094
And almost all of those listed dead people were in the LEAST free and LEAST Capitalist countries on Earth, where GOVERNMENT officials regularly steal foreign aid to cement their power and kill those who try to stop them. Fuck you for using their suffering and deaths to support the ideology that killed them.

[Anonymous No.12379074]

>>12377285
>>12377480
>>12378094
Communism is the most painful path between capitalism and capitalism.

[Anonymous No.12379096]

>all the captialism vs communism babbling
Can't we all just agree that both capitalism and communism is horrible at the present? And "socialism" too.

[Anonymous No.12379103]

>>12379096
I think it's just humans who are horrible.

[Anonymous No.12379104]

>Can we as a society just shift our economy away from currency
How do you propose to fairly allocate resources then? The market is not a place you go, it is more akin to a distributed artificial intelligence that optimizes the allocation of resources. It s the ceiling, you can't build something better than it.

>>12373772
>99% of these people have common sense
Very bold assumption.

[Anonymous No.12379110]

>>12379074
Can I steal that phrase?

[Anonymous No.12379123]

>>12373324
Where's parking?

[Anonymous No.12379132]

>>12379110
Sure, It's 15 bucks

[Anonymous No.12379165]

>>12373480
AI rulers

[Anonymous No.12379169]

>>12379041
cobble something together, then you can talk it up again.

would you consider a country where political pressure is built up with bribes until the interests of a company are above the protection of its own people as more or less capitalistic?
how exactly do you interpret the fact that these companies are from rich countries?

>Fuck you for using their suffering and deaths to support the ideology that killed them.
so I use the suffering and the deads in those countries, those capitalist countries (you even said it yourself) and justify the ideology that prevails there - wait a minute thats capitalism - could you explain that?

and I would like to make something clear.
I dont like the idea of communism, at least not of the one we know historically or from china.
there are all kinds of gradations down to the social market economy like yurop mainly works with. thats like 5% communism at best.
are we known for our ruthlessness? (spoiler: health system, unemployment benefits,...)

but to believe that our economic principle - the capitalism - is still goal-oriented in 2020 when you see the profits of bezos is very stupid.
remember, money is a substitute value for goods.
money does not mold, money does not do work and most importantly, money does not multiply by itself.
if someone earns 30 billion, then someone else has 30 billion less.
how long do you think this will still work?
what happens when even the last supermarkets close due to the price pressure from amazon?
who will pay the taxes then?
where do you work then?
will bezos then have the same amount of money as the USA and Europe together?
will he then buy his own continent?
and how many refugees will come from the third world when the price pressure has arrived on raw materials?

you are welcome to keep believing in whatever you want, but if you arent 65 or older, this shit will catch up with you.
it will catch up with us all.

[Anonymous No.12379185]

>>12379132
wtf I hate intellectual property now

[Anonymous No.12379273]

>>12373324
Currency and materialism is the best way to keep plebs in line. Great reset guys forget about this. Elites will be hanged if the normies will lose objective for constant earning.

[Anonymous No.12379278]

>>12373479
Slavery is when they can take your children from you and sell them to someone far away and you never see them again and you are prevented from learning to read by law

[Anonymous No.12379798]

>>12377991
/thread

[Anonymous No.12380290]

>>12377498
You're probably one of the few lucky bunch that have been lifted by the magical hand of Capitalism that's why you defend it so vehemently, unlike us plebs who want to escape you seem to be very comfortable

[Anonymous No.12380317]

>>12373324
>currency and materialism
only if we're stupid enough to give up the right to property.

[Anonymous No.12380322]

>>12379123
no cars
>>12379096
>>12379103
>>12378557
There's a thought. What about Socialism? National Socialism?

[Anonymous No.12380324]

Its just rebranded communism. Wont work, at least until we have human-like AI and very cheap energy like fusion or LFTRs.

[Anonymous No.12380330]

>>12380324
Maybe we'll achieve that in this century if Elon Musk is anything to go by

[Anonymous No.12380355]

>>12373325
? Anymore ?

[Anonymous No.12380384]

>>12380322
based

[Anonymous No.12380387]

>>12380384
The pillars of light are pure kino

[Anonymous No.12380645]

>>12376136
they're catgirls so a jump like that is no problem for them

[Anonymous No.12380653]

>>12379103 and you think the right way to deal with this is a system that ignores good, constructive choices and rewards unethical, harmful ones?

Also there's lots of proof it can also be otherwise and it's only a reason why we have systems anyway.

[Anonymous No.12380690]

If only whites are allowed in then count me in

[Anonymous No.12380974]

>>12379278
Child Protective Services regularly does that in America, though.

[Anonymous No.12380982]

>>12379278
>you are prevented from learning to read by law
The reading we are taught is much different than the legalese of the word's legal meaning.
Person for instance has a very different legal definition versus how a layperson understands a person to be.

[Anonymous No.12381023]

>>12373324
If you don't mind living in a mud house with zero technology and painstakingly farm your own food and make your own clothes, yes. If however you want to live like in pic related then someone has to build all that and they're going to ask for something in return because no one likes doing shit for free except mods.

[Anonymous No.12381032]

>>12381023
>someone has to build all that
Post Scarcity Automation.
Is this your first time encountering The Venus Project?

[Anonymous No.12381042]

>>12373324
Bug man project

[Anonymous No.12381062]

>>12381032
There will never be a thing such as post scarcity. Even if robots can do all the work, the land the robots grow food on is limited and so are the ressources that robots will excavate. Someone owns these lands and ressources, and someone operates these robots and they will request compensation for both running the robots and selling the ressources the robots are harvesting and excavating.

People probably won't do work themselves anymore but they will certainly own robots who do work for them or they will invest into companies and recieve a piece of the profit in return.

Literally the only possible thing that could count as post scarcity is a star trek level replicator, but even these cost energy and the question is who owns the energy these replicators run on.

[Anonymous No.12381098]

>>12381062
>There will never be a thing such as post scarcity
Tell that to everyone at the Venus Project who is banking on it and designing around it.

>the land the robots grow food on is limited
Not really, we mostly live in small areas of densely populated land and we haven't even began to really inhabit the ocean land and even when we do, not only has technology to build really high advanced pretty far, but we can also dig pretty deep to build more underground too, so there is a limit, but it is not a limit we can physically reach any time soon.

>someone operates these robots
A governor robot.

> they will request compensation for both running the robots
Electrical energy will be abundant and that is the only payment robots need.

> they will request compensation for both running the robots and selling the ressources the robots are harvesting and excavating.
Resources will be so abundant they will pay you to get them out of the way.

>Literally the only possible thing that could count as post scarcity is a star trek level replicator
No you simply need more nuclear energy or cold fusion.

[Anonymous No.12381141]

>>12380290
I'm not even defending capitalism, I'm pointing out how ridiculously vague your utopian bullshit is. You're the only one defending something and you're doing a horrible job.

[Anonymous No.12381149]

>>12381098
Abudance only exists until the population has caught up. What seems limitless to you now will be percieved as limited in the future and whenever something is limited someone will claim ownership over it, and the exchange of owned goods are always something that will result in a monetary system.

I mean look at how the seemingly endless land of the U.S was immediately divided and sold when Europeans reached it. Now almost all land on the planet is already owned and the moment sea area is being sold it will be sold and owned in record time, and then they will divide it into underground sections which will be sold also similar as to how airspace is being sold. And the owners will demand money for the land to be used. It will take a while until then as you said yourself, but the human population growth and greed will be sure to follow along in the process and make sure things will never be unlimited.

[Anonymous No.12381151]

>>12381098
>Tell that to everyone at the Venus Project who is banking on it and designing around it.
>we haven't even began to really inhabit the ocean land
>A governor robot.
>cold fusion.

[Anonymous No.12381350]

>>12381141
I'm not defending anything I'm playing devil's advocate and entertaining the idea because if something like this works then I can die happy knowing the future will be bright

[Anonymous No.12381430]

>>12373324
*ahem* BENIS BROJEGD

[Anonymous No.12381678]

>>12381430
Well played, sir, well played

[Anonymous No.12382173]

>>12380690
First things first; we gotta find out if it can work at all

[Anonymous No.12384355]

>>12373324
> Can we as a society just shift our economy away from currency and materialism?
Yes, but only through the power of nationalism or religiom