/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11972754]

How do native English-speakers rationalize their retarded number naming system?

Quite literally [math]10^{6n} > 10^{3+3n}[/math] (for [math]n > 1[/math]).

[Anonymous No.11972755]

>>11972754
long scale is retarded

[Anonymous No.11972758]

>>11972754
Yes, it is exactly what was said before. Also, it's like using another way to describe it. Do you read what was said? It is said to be a bit of a lot of things.

[Anonymous No.11972767]

>>11972755
>short scale is retarded

>>11972758
Your post bot has had some sort of mishap.
Get it fixed.

[Anonymous No.11972770]

>>11972754
The only problem with short scale is that thousands exist. We should remove those and shift everything down.

[Anonymous No.11972778]

>>11972770
Yeah, that would make way more sense.

I have the odd suspicion that would fuck up things even more, though.

[Anonymous No.11972795]

>>11972754
economists corrupted the word because they wanted something convenient

[Anonymous No.11972799]

>>11972795
Fuck those astrology larpers.

[Anonymous No.11972826]

what do you suggest to replace 3 + 3n? I hope you're not going to suggest naming every power of ten. I also hope you're not going to ask the general public to use 100 = e2 etc because I dont trust them with basic math.

[Anonymous No.11972856]

>>11972826
6n seems perfectly fine, if you ask me.
Professionally the e# notation works out fine to avoid confusion due to the Angles.

[Anonymous No.11973075]

>>11972754
numbers above a million don't need well-defined common names unless you're playing cookie clicker

[Anonymous No.11973197]

134,3852 is one hundred and thirty-four thousand, thirty-eight hundred and fifty-two. Use a new word at each power of two of digits.
Thousand=10^4
Million=10^8
Billion=10^16
etc

[Anonymous No.11973282]

>>11972754
I thought this was going to be about having different names for every set of ten, i.e. teen, twenty, thirty. It was only after learning some Mandarin that I realized our numbering system is unnecessarily convoluted. I believe the Chinese use the long scale as well.

[Anonymous No.11973320]

Million is already fucked, literally means "big thousand." Trying to make anything above that make sense is futile.

[Anonymous No.11973517]

after 1000, anything but increments of 3 is retarded

[Anonymous No.11973531]

>>11973075
Well, it gets confusing, when the US claim they are investing trillions (short scale) for Corona help, when they are effectively "only" investing billions (long scale).
And holy fuck, this planet couldn't hope to support 7.5 billion (long scale) humans.

I'm from the realm of the long scale, and it seems way less convoluted, so I'd be in favor of abolishing the short scale.

>>11973282
Well, with East Asia the problems multiply, since they group their digits in groups of 4 instead of 3, and the names for those groups are inconsistent as fuck.
This "innovative" naming scheme for example has 10^88 as literally the "immeasurably large number" (無量大数).

>>11973517
The long scale also has increments of 3, but there is always a step between the n-llion and the (n+1)-llion called n-lliard.

[Anonymous No.11973567]

>>11973531
>but there is always a step between the n-llion and the (n+1)-llion called n-lliard.
aka 6

[Anonymous No.11973628]

>>11972754
Wait, who says milliard? thought long scale was a bongish thing.

[Anonymous No.11973650]

>>11973628
Continental Europe as a whole.
Milliarde, Milliard, Miliardo, Miljard, Miliard...
English is the odd one out with its short scale.

[Anonymous No.11973664]

>>11973531
SI names steps of 3 orders of magnitude and European in origin. Europeans also use long scale. This inconsistency means they are therefore retarded and incapable of making this decision for anyone else let alone themselves. I am English Canadian, we use the short scale and the SI. We are correct, everyone who disagrees is wrong. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.11973707]

>>11973664
Europe also does "steps of 3 orders of magnitude".
thousand (10^3), million (10^6), milliard (10^9), billion (10^12), billiard (10^15), trillion (10^18), trilliard (10^21), quadrillion (10^24), quadrilliard (10^27), quintillion (10^30), quintilliard (10^33, at which point English is already at its decillion), sextillion (10^36), sextilliard (10^39), septillion (10^42), septilliard (10^45)...
There is no inconsistency in this. We have made the decision to have it like this. The Anglos, which you are one of, decided to disagree and try to force the rest of the world to use their fucked up system for retards.
You are wrong, and you will never be right.

[Anonymous No.11973773]

>>11973707
>billiard
lol
no one is this stupid, it's just in dusty old books

[Anonymous No.11973819]

know what is funny europoors need coping mechanisms to feel superior so they point out illogical things in English (when there are plenty of them in their KEK languages). They try to point to silly things to make their shitty country and dying language/culture feel superior and the extra funny part its ACTUALLY the only way their country feel better that basically no international cultural impact or any importance at all (compared to america). the best part I DIDNT EVEN know there was another system of numbers that europoors used since they are so unimportant YET they knew english does. and the very best best is they are probably eating mcdonalds after working a shift at walmart. Very sad the amount of cope the europoors have to go through.

[Anonymous No.11973936]

Clearly left is less stupid

[Anonymous No.11973960]

>>11973707
it was the economists, they braindead as can be told by the state of the economies.

[Anonymous No.11973988]

>>11972754
The UK used to use the correct numbering system, such as one (new) billion being a thousand million and one (old) billion being a million million. However, I believe an American accidentally corrupted the meaning. It was until rather recently that the UK used the US version

[Anonymous No.11974005]

>>11973988
Well, what is the UK, but a US bridge-head in Europe?
Good thing they left the EU. Unironically.

[Anonymous No.11974065]

>>11972754
Absolutely no one talks about anything bigger than a billion/milliard in typical speech, so it doesn't matter in the least that the English system is simply bullshitting descriptions of groupings into descriptions of sequential sets. In actual research-style language, you never talk about or write numbers using the names like this, you use a combination of scientific notation and SI units. Caring about how people choose to use language is peak fucking autism, except when it interrupts meaningful communication (which, in this case, it doesn't except for people desperately fighting their way onto the spectrum to have an internet fight about).

[Anonymous No.11974082]

bong, I use thousand million and thousand billion

[Anonymous No.11974650]

>>11972758
Huh? Genuinely curious

[Anonymous No.11974787]

>>11973664
Based short scale/SI

Long scale is the most retarded shit I ever heard since I learned of the American system

[Anonymous No.11975120]

>>11973707
That's not steps of three retard that's two groupings of three aka six

[Anonymous No.11975144]

why do some subhuman countries use a comma as a decimal?
that shit needs to stop before it accidentally kills someone

[Anonymous No.11975151]

>>11975144
Hey as a Canadian who has to do both, lemme tell you, commas as decimals is wayyyy more based than commas every three fucking numbers

[Anonymous No.11975206]

>>11975151
0,999.999.999.999.... = 1
virgins name numbers
chad makes new scales
virgins count zeroes as friends
chad only need one number
Virgins relates numbers to themselves
chad relates number to the nature he is born of
Virgins thinks power is reserved only for tens
chad dumps all virgin schemes, cal > kcal
Virgins compensate with long decimal expansions
chad rationalizes the world to balance, a perfect symmetry

[Anonymous No.11975217]

>>11975206
>0,999.999.999.999....
based

[Anonymous No.11975220]

>>11972754
I remember this indian girl at my university misunderstood what was meant by billion and then wondered why her programming assignment was taking hours to run.

[Anonymous No.11975265]

>>11975206
invalid IP address try again

[Anonymous No.11975278]

>>11973707
Thanks for proving my point eurotrash. Million expands on thousand by three orders of magnitude, a thousand thousands hence the name. Billion does this twice, hence the name (a thousand thousand-thousands). Trillion, three times, hence the name. These increases are perfectly in sync with SI units. Fully consistent.

Milliard fucks it all up. Now a billion is a million millions, why would it be a million of something if the "mil" means thousand? Totally out of sync with SI - the metric prefixes change with every 3rd order, but the prefix of the number itself doesn't for some retarded reason, it changes every 6. Totally inconsistent with itself. Stupid, just like you for thinking you had a point. As you said, you made this decision; as I said, you are (proven to be) too retarded to make this decision.

[Anonymous No.11975454]

Short scale > long scale.
SI > imperial.
YYYY-MM-DD > every other stupid way of writing dates.
Commas (or spaces) every 3 digits.
Decimal points are points, so use periods.
Also
>a mile is 5280 feet
>a cup is 16 tablespoons
>a cup is 48 teaspoons (not even a power of 2)
>a pound is 16 ounces
Everyone who made the imperial system should be shot. I'm from the US and I fucking hate our system. At least we don't use stone though.

[Anonymous No.11975528]

>>11975454
your way of writing dates is the best because it sorts and alphabetizes properly on a computer
just wanted to point that out

[Anonymous No.11975578]

>>11975454
>YYYY-MM-DD

[Anonymous No.11975835]

>>11973664
>I am English Canadian, we use the short scale and the SI.
How often do you give your weight in kg and your height in cm or meters? If someone asks about the size of your house, do you answer them in square meters? If you watch the CFL, do you convert yards to meters in your head to understand what is happening in the game? Should we even discuss supermarket ads?

[Anonymous No.11975847]

>>11975835
>Drinks? Mls
>Gasoline? Liters
>Distances in anything other than american football? Kilometers
>Dog food? Kgs
>Britbongers? Just as bad as Americans
>Hotel? Trivago
>Precise measurement? Cms

[Anonymous No.11975857]

>>11975206
virgins use excessive amounts of 9s
0.9...=1 is enough

[Anonymous No.11975860]

>>11975847
>Distances in anything other than american football? Kilometers
You use kilometers for the size of your monitor?

[Anonymous No.11975892]

>>11975860
Blame the americans for that, it's not like there are any Canadian monitor makers. I personally would love to have that in kilometres

[Anonymous No.11976023]

>>11975578
DD-MM-YYYY and YYYY-MM-DD are both perfectly acceptable.
MM-DD-YYYY is fucking bullshit, though.
It's like hh:ss:mm. No one in his right mind would do that.

>>11975860
Europe often uses cm for that.
Especially commonly for TVs.

[Anonymous No.11976159]

>>11976023
YMD=1999-12-31
DMY=31.12.1999
MDY=12/31/1999

[Anonymous No.11976175]

>>11976159
>MDY=12/31/1999
Unless you have been raised from birth with that system, it makes no fucking sense.

[Anonymous No.11976186]

>>11976023
>>11976175
people say april 20th in speech
nobody ever says 20 april

[Anonymous No.11976189]

>>11976175
'december 31st' is where it came from.
it's not a good system, but "no fucking sense" is too harsh

[Anonymous No.11976195]

>>11976186
>people say april 20th in speech
>nobody ever says 20 april
In English, yeah.
You were brought up with that system.
It makes sense to you, despite it being nonsense.

[Anonymous No.11976224]

>>11976195
>english speakers use system that makes sense in english
woah shocking breaking news you have there

[Anonymous No.11976240]

>>11975857
0.9 = 1

[Anonymous No.11976279]

>>11975278
Are you dumb? A billion is a million millions thus bi, 2. A trillion is a million million millions thus tri, 3.

[Anonymous No.11976291]

>>11975860
>>Distances in anything other than american football? Kilometers
>You use kilometers for the size of your monitor?

>>Precise measurement? Cms

Can you read?

[Anonymous No.11976292]

>>11976023
CENTImeter and KILOmeter are not the same thing. If you want to say you use meter as the base unit of measure, that would make sense but to claim that KILOmeter is used for everything except American football is simply an incorrect statement.

[Anonymous No.11976297]

>>11976186
20th of April

[Anonymous No.11976459]

>>11976279
>More eurotrash that can't read
Million comes from Italian - one of your countries - and means 'great thousand'. The root word deals with a number of thousands. Hence the short scale is correct, because the subsequent names are portmanteau with numeric prefixes telling you what scale of thousand you're dealing with. If it told you what scale of million you're dealing with, ie trillion (million million-millions) or billion (million millions) then the definition of the word million becomes self referential (a million is a million), ergo it's retarded and so are you, proving once again you eurotrash are too stupid to make this decision for anybody.

[Anonymous No.11976490]

>>11976459
>then the definition of the word million becomes self referential
No it doesnt. A million is defined as a thousand thousands.

Also Italy uses the long scale not the short scale. And by your logic shouldnt the next step after million then be millioneone rather than billion seeing as the italian word is mille, thousand, and then the -one making it the great thousands.

[Anonymous No.11976493]

>>11976459
*Not understanding loydly*

[Anonymous No.11976596]

>>11972754
I believe somebody stole a LOT by this simple scheme.

[Anonymous No.11976823]

>>11976490
>A million is a thousand thousands but a billion is not a thousand millions
Right, that is the definition of million, making it inconsistent with the rest in the long scale. Which is my original point, that the long scale is inconsistent retarded nonsense.
>Italy uses the long scale
So? Non sequitur. Million isn't even Italian, Old Italian is the word's root, millione - great thousand. It was adapted into French, Million is French and so is Milliard, so the French are ultimately responsible for fucking everything up. Incidentally, they also invented the SI, so they have no excuse for their inconsistency.
>Millioneone
Yes, my logic would imply that the subsequent 3rd orders of 10 could be described by tacking on extra -ones: great thousand for 3 orders of magnitude above thousand, great great thousand for 6, great great great thousand for 9. The number of -one's we add tells us the number of 10^3 we multiply a thousand by. Mille, Millione, Millioneone. Perfectly consistent. But, this becomes cumbersome and hard to recognize at a glance very quickly, so instead we create portmanteau words to describe the number of 'greats' instead. Bi for two greats, Tri for three, etc. Billion and Trillion. You can't say these words make sense in a vacuum - a billion is a 'great two' or 'great pair'? They only make sense in the context of adding a number of 'great's to the thousand. Which is why Milliard and Billiard coming out of nowhere and fucking it all up makes it stupid and inconsistent.

Me: 3, Eurotrash: 0.

[Anonymous No.11976852]

>>11976596
The scheme HDD makers pulled off is worse.
A Kilobyte is 2^10=1024 Byte, not 10^3=1000 Byte.

[Anonymous No.11976881]

>>11976852
This wasn't HDD makers it was HDD marketers. Old fashioned computer science people and textbooks never referred to the KB as a kilobyte, the K is produced "Kay". Using metric terms made it sound like the device had more storage than it did.

[Anonymous No.11976914]

>>11976881
The thing is, with Terabyte it slowly starts to get ridiculous.
The gap between advertised storage capacity and actual storage capacity is exploding.
With Exabyte it will be 15%, with Zettabyte it will be 18%, with Yottabyte it will be 21%.
HDD makers and marketers are fucking cancer.

I'm simply glad RAM makers haven't jumped on that train.

[Anonymous No.11976920]

>>11976914
Agreed

[Anonymous No.11976940]

>>11972755
No. There's no reason why a billion shouldn't be called a "thousand millions" like we say in my country. It's when it becomes a "million millions" that you obviously need a new name. Americans do this retarded thing with hundreds too, like when something costs "twelve hundred" dollars, civilized world would just say a "thousand and two hundred". Who even does this? If something is 1.5 you don't say "six fourths", then why the fuck do that with money?

[Anonymous No.11976941]

>>11976940
yeah well your country is probably a shithole with no running water. scram bucko

[Anonymous No.11976953]

>>11976186
>people say april 20th in speech
>nobody ever says 20 april
I'm not sure if people say "April twentieth" and like that in english, but in my language everyone just would say "twenty of April".

[Anonymous No.11976990]

>>11976953
In my language it would similarly be "20th April".

[Anonymous No.11977016]

>>11976940
>>11976940
>A thousand millions is fine
>Twelve hundreds is not fine
e*rotrash logic, folks

[Anonymous No.11977043]

>>11976823
>>11977016
Seething

[Anonymous No.11977048]

>>11976953
In English we say both 20th of April and April 20th, however the former sounds quite formal so people don't use it as often

>>11976175
The only advantage I can think of is that it's in order "largest possible options from smallest to largest"

[Anonymous No.11977209]

>>11977043
Lmao I'm deducting a point for that, now it's Me: 4 and e*rotrash: -1

Keep racking up the points for me tho

[Anonymous No.11977222]

>>11977209
I'm sorry sir but our scoreboard cannot display negative numbers so now it shows me: 4 e*rotrash: 18 446 744 073 709 551 615.

Not sure how you all want to pronounce it, though

[Anonymous No.11977235]

>>11977048
>In English we say both 20th of April and April 20th, however the former sounds quite formal so people don't use it as often

Only in the States, but I'm certain it's because of the dating system. Bongs use day of month

[Anonymous No.11977246]

>>11977235
And Canada (where I'm from)

[Anonymous No.11977295]

>>11976240
>t. impotent

[Anonymous No.11977444]

>>11977222
Your reply is cancer but full house dubs/trips and use of a 64 bit operating system are well appreciated

[Anonymous No.11977472]

>>11977444
Thanks, nice numbers bro

[Anonymous No.11977758]

>>11977209
Who is the one keeping a score board on who won an argument that he himself is the judge of?
Again.
>Seething

[Anonymous No.11977805]

>>11977758
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
-2

[Anonymous No.11978056]

>>11972754
>1 10 100
>1,000 10,000 100,000
>1,000,000 10,000,000 100,000,000
>ad infinitum.
short scale > long scale

[Anonymous No.11978067]

>>11975454
Europe and the rest of the world know their populations are too dumb to do imperial style conversions so they dumb it down and make it powers of 10. Americans use imperial to show off their intellectual superiority to the rest of the world.

[Anonymous No.11978254]

>>11972754
c(uck)otienntals

vs

Chadislands

[Anonymous No.11978384]

>>11978067
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter
ah yes, great demonstration of superiority

[Anonymous No.11978418]

>>11976023
It's a lot more like mm:ss:hhhh, which is honestly understandable and not that bad. Don't be such a baby.

[Anonymous No.11978577]

>>11972754
I could say that after we all agree on a million,
we separately agree as to the logical extension
of the bigger numbers. A million is
a "great thousand", linguistically, so why not
reflect the language based on thousands?
That is, use "bithou" for million, "trithou" for
the number 10^9, etc.

And if that's too silly, we can colloquially use
"figures" and we can cut the name wars shit
entirely.
ex 1: The Moon is 5 figures of miles away from
Earth.
ex. 2: His bank account is 9 figures lower than
Bezo's worth, now at 185 billion.

Why not this?

[Anonymous No.11978602]

>>11973628
Long scale is dead
t. brit

[Anonymous No.11978790]

>>11978254
>cotinentals

[Anonymous No.11978808]

>>11976940
>thinks he's from the civilised world
>English isn't his native language

[Anonymous No.11978843]

Here's what it should be:
10^3 = thousand (or "mille", if you want to sound sophisticated)
10^6 = billion
10^9 = trillion
...
10^3n = greek word for n + "llion"

[Anonymous No.11978848]

>>11978843
>Here's what it should be
how often are you met with success when using that phrase

[Anonymous No.11978976]

>>11972754
why can't english just call out large numbers in scientific notation?
you just needed a new, short word for x10^n

[Anonymous No.11979022]

>>11976940
Because they have $100 bills.

12 one hundred dollar bills. The cost of one coffee in America.

I'm guessing you pay in pesos?

[Anonymous No.11979322]

A rose by any other name, buddy

It doesn't matter what its called, what matters is that you understand the idea the word represents.

[Anonymous No.11979837]

>>11979322
>It doesn't matter what its called, what matters is that you understand the idea the word represents.
And that gets made impossible by the Mutts' short scale.
How about a prefix to distinguish the short scale from the regular scale?
I propose sh-, i.e. shmillion, shbillion, shtrillion,...

>>11978602
England got taken over by Mutts, yeah.
I have literally never encountered the short scale in real life.
t. Europe

[Anonymous No.11979851]

>>11979022
>12 one hundred dollar bills. The cost of one coffee in America.

Cope

[Anonymous No.11980446]

[Anonymous No.11980482]

>>11973664
case closed

[Anonymous No.11980536]

>>11973650
latin america also uses the short scale.

[Anonymous No.11980596]

>>11980446
Well, after
>Not My President!
you go
>Not My Father!

Then why do you keep doing genetic tests to make sure your ancestry is European?
Be yourself instead of your own ancestor. Keep using the short scale and imperial units despite better knowledge.
As long as you don't have a repeat of MCO, that is.

[Anonymous No.11980730]

>>11972754
eurofag here
i'm more angry at inconsitency of decimal separators

some countries use
>148 814,88
us and asiasns are using
>148,814.88
britfags use
>148 814.88
geraman/dutch/nordicfags use
>148.814,88
and swissfags want to be unique with
>148'814.88
or
>148'814,88

it's so fucking annoying

[Anonymous No.11980770]

>>11980730
I feel you, but in those cases it's easy to figure out how to read those numbers.
With "billion" there is no way to tell unless you know beforehand what could be meant.

[Anonymous No.11980783]

>>11980446
yep, too obsessed sucking Israeli cock.