/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11929724]

Is consciousness an emergent property?

[Anonymous No.11929727]

>>11929724
everything you believe is based off retarded assumptions

[Anonymous No.11929870]

>>11929724
Atoms are conscious

[Anonymous No.11929906]

>>11929724
Consciousness doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.11929943]

>>11929906
false

[Anonymous No.11929960]

>>11929724
Seems likely to me, given that you can diminish it by damaging the shit it "emerges" from.

[Anonymous No.11930012]

>>11929724
My boner is an emergent property of your mom

[Anonymous No.11930059]

>>11929724
Broken branch ancestor cry

[Anonymous No.11930079]

physics is a product of consciousness

[Anonymous No.11930325]

It's a quantum mechanical property and can best be described by fields and thermodynamics

[Anonymous No.11930345]

consciousness is like matter

always is/was/will be

[Anonymous No.11931018]

>>11929724
Yes, a priori

[Anonymous No.11931037]

>>11929724
Maybe

[Anonymous No.11931072]

>>11929724
what is an emergent property? how is it different than a regular property?
instant pseud filter when I hear this drivel brought up

[Anonymous No.11932704]

>>11929870
if we assume consciousness is a spectrum, then this would almost make sense. but i'd still say that cells are probably the most basic form of awareness, which some could consider conscious, altho it's such a basic form of it.

[Anonymous No.11932973]

>>11931072
The only one filtered here is you. Is a single molecule of O2 gas, liquid or solid?

[Anonymous No.11933993]

>>11929724
Life doesn't need consciousness to exist. Your consciousness literally turns off when in deep sleep yet you're still maintained all of your biological functions. Add nutrition through photosynthesis to deep sleep and you're a plant, no consciousness needed. C only exists within brains.

[Anonymous No.11934000]

We will never know the answer to this question. Not because it's unknowable, but because 100% of conversations derail into arguments with people(?) who don't understand the distinction between intelligence and consciousness.

[Anonymous No.11934216]

>>11931072
Emergent properties exist to make reductionists seethe

[Anonymous No.11934375]

>>11933993
since consciousness doesn't do anything, how do we know consciousness is only within brains? It doesn't have any testable parameters.

[Anonymous No.11934713]

>>11929724
Consciousness doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.11934764]

after many years of thinking i came to the conclusion that consiousness is an illusion.

[Anonymous No.11934974]

>>11929724
define consciousness

[Anonymous No.11935026]

>>11929724
I don't know why you fucks expect people to solve consciousness on a congolese battered women's forum.

[Anonymous No.11935040]

>>11929724
lately, i've been of the opinion that consciousness is a fundamental aspect of the universe (e.g. it's present everywhere at all times), and that certain physical structures can organize fundamental consciousness in such a way that it can retain memory.

the alternative, of course, is that certain physical structures can generate consciousness. something about the first one feels more correct, but i can't quite put my finger on it.

[Anonymous No.11935044]

>>11935040
Based

[Anonymous No.11935080]

>>11935040
it feels more correct because we don't have a model for what it is about any given structure that would give rise to consciousness. This failing is predicated on the notion that it is fundamentally an epiphenomenon without use, which is assumed because qualia (the actual experience of sensory inputs and what it's like to think) aren't amenable to empirical study.

In other words, it's quite impossible for materialist science to explain how consciousness arises. The common, knee-jerk reaction is to say "it's not real" because people assume anything science can't come to grips with is just an illusion, but in this special case that doesn't seem to make much sense, given it doesn't really matter to the point of view experiencing consciousness whether it's "real" or not. A slightly less reactionary response that is a little more honest is your idea: that consciousness is just a fundamental aspect of the universe; a "constant" - and this fits in with other constants known to science, so sure, why not?

The problem with constants being, of course, that they don't really explain anything about themselves - they just are. After that you want to know why constants are the way they are, and people tell you that there are some questions you shouldn't ask, since they "don't make sense" and use examples of questions that are grammatically or otherwise fucked up to prove that there are such things as nonsensical questions... which don't really track with the question you've asked. But there's nothing beyond that which anyone really knows, at least that I've been able to find out. It's just a mystery.

[Anonymous No.11935094]

>>11929724
>>>/his/

[Anonymous No.11935150]

>>11929724
Consciousness is an evolved phenomenon. There were no conscious humans before around 5000 years ago

[Anonymous No.11935160]

>>11929724
consciousness is a meme and should only be glanced at from time to time with a slight smile

[Anonymous No.11935174]

>>11935150

Based and bicameralpilled.

>>11929724

"Emergent" is literally phlogiston-tier. How does it improve our understanding of anything? "It's an emergent property" just means we think it appears when it does. It's an admission of ignorance dressed up as wisdom. We don't understand how urban planning, human intelligence or ant colonies work, so just leave it at that.

[El Arcón No.11935181]

are these samefags? mossad samefags?

[Anonymous No.11935187]

>>11935174
>How does it improve our understanding of anything?
Almost the entirety of human knowledge is on emergent properties. There is no concept of “life” at quantum level yet the field of medicine exists. We can’t even really model protein folding, let alone its atomic scale equivalent,yet biology exists. Are these fields really useless just because we can’t describe them on the most fundamental level, and in fact would never be able to(since the question wouldn’t make sense)?

[Anonymous No.11935194]

>>11934375
Consciousness is useful for creatures who needs to posses an outward sense for locomotion, nutrition, mating, etc. Plants do all that without movement this have no need for consciousness, yet they're still alive. C is secondary to life, and only a tool for life, that is, like I said, for external sensing.

[Anonymous No.11935197]

>>11934764
Whos viewing the illusion retard?

[Anonymous No.11935198]

ITT: people who have no idea what emergence is, and are too lazy to even read the wikipedia summary

[Anonymous No.11935214]

>>11929724

[Anonymous No.11935219]

>>11935197
The conscious observer is an accident of the ALL but isn't the ALL. Life does not need the conscious observer to exist. The body continues even when in deep sleep or a coma if given proper nutrition. Our organs themselves maintain themselves without consciousness. A plant is a living thing without consciousness. Being alive without the subject is just like being in deep sleep, this is the same as a plant living without the self. So consciousness is just an emergency property of the brain.

[Anonymous No.11935226]

>>11935219
Ok so you're back pedaling and no longer saying it's an illusion?

[Anonymous No.11935231]

>>11929724
Consciousness is the gap between the mental model of the world and the real world as it really is.

[Anonymous No.11935260]

>>11935226
Not him, but what he’s saying is not really inconsistent. It could be the sum of every side effect of biological processes. In that sense it’s an illusion because there’s no single “you”. Split brain experiments are really interesting in showing it’s modularity.

[El Arcón No.11935274]

>>11935214
>So like what the fuck is logic bros?
As a matter fact, that mugshot about the SWAT team was them invading my LEGAL residence. I moved in there with a lease agreement and I was never given an eviction notice, and they wronged me with that episode at least as much as this new thing has wronged me. I had every right to be in that house: it was my legal residence. I am not bullshitting or twisting anything, those cops were 100% fucking wrong to arrest me that day. I did not do anything wrong at all, and the stuff they uploaded about it was as derogatory as this new stuff. That was my legal residence in every conceivable sense and those cops who did that were vile criminals acting illegally, as cops usually do whenever it suits them. They arrested me and charged me with burglarizing my own legal residence.

[Anonymous No.11935289]

>>11935274
If you didn't do anything wrong it wouldn't have happened

[Anonymous No.11935310]

What else would it be?

[El Arcón No.11935317]

>>11935289
So your belief is the people are never wronged by the cops, ever, and that police act properly all of the time without ever doing injustice to people?

That was my legal residence. I had every right to be in there. After I signed the lease, it became my legal residence until I would leave or get an eviction notice. I didn't leave and I didn't get an eviction notice. You are so wrong! I stake my entire reputation for honesty on my claim that this SWAT incident was nothing more than the cops harassing, terrorizing, and arresting me for burglarizing my own legal residence, which they totally destroyed. These cops fucked me as much as these sandwich monsters did. Probably the cops fucked me even more than the sandwich monsters because none of this other shit would have happened if the SWAT team hadn't completely destroyed my legal residence without any legal authority to do so. As long as they kept not serving me an eviction notice, I would have kept living there. The law says an eviction notice is required to involuntarily terminate a legal residency. I was never served such a notice. That was my legal residence where I had every right to be, and where the cops had no right to be.

You are wrong. You are horribly naive to the thinks are anything more than a nasty crime gang in blue.

[El Arcón No.11935327]

Would I lie about this? Do I bear false witness to the things I see?

[Anonymous No.11935335]

>>11935317
I'm not saying cops arent corrupt. What I'm saying is you clearly made yourself a target in some way that made you an easy mark.

[Anonymous No.11935360]

>>11935335
You’re as bad as the ACAB people. Sometimes cops fuck up and the power tripping ones would rather find an excuse to say they did no wrong that apologize. Don’t know who this guy is, but there was recently a very similar story about someone getting served the wrong search warrant. He was charged with resisting arrest even though they found out the arrest was invalid in the first place. To assume cops are somehow infallible and must always be in the right is completely moronic.

[El Arcón No.11935372]

>>11935335
Yeah. It's called being indigent. Also, it's called being in "a simulation."

>>11935360
And to assume the cops didn't knowingly do this to me as a wilful act of malice, and that it was an oopsie that led to "JONATHAN TOOKER CLASS A FELON" ending up all over the internet would be equally bad judgement. Sometimes cops fuck up on accident, it's true. Often times cops abuse their police powers and laugh about how there's no defense against police rape.

[Anonymous No.11935379]

Consciousness is primary. Knowledge comes from experience, these "fundamental" scientific objects that supposedly form the groundwork of consciousness are defined by it. Even fundamental particles are defined by their properties, and a ""property"" of an object is inherently tied to the way you experience it.

This doesn't mean that quarks "are conscious" or whatever, it means that everything that exists is a certain modality of consciousness.

[Anonymous No.11935575]

>>11929724
>Sentience is the ability to learn the value of Knowledge
>Intellect is the understanding of Knowledge

[Anonymous No.11936582]

>>11935197
>>11935219
>>11935226
>>11935260

if you ask a talking bot if she/he is awear he/she will say yes.

everyone knows it is not true but his answer isn't much different from our own.

the bot's awearness is diffrent from the awearness of a human the same way the awearness of a plant is diffrent of that of an animal.

There are various level of consiousness in nature, i don't think anyone can argue with that.
all of them are illusions. simulations of concussions.

you think you know about yourself and your thinking but you don't. you aren't in controle nor awear of the state of every particle within you.

[Anonymous No.11938689]

>>11933993
>C only exists within brains.

I bet you think the news anchor stops existing when your TV breaks.

[Anonymous No.11938729]

>>11929870
based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d4ugppcRUE

[Anonymous No.11938757]

>>11929724
>Is consciousness an emergent property?
Yes

>>11929870
At a level, yes.

>>11930325
False, unproven theory. Quantum particles are too insignificant to play a part in the fuctions of neurons.

>>11934000
The problems are: 1. People who give up on this topic 2. People who mistify consciousness as an all-mighty thing.
We need to classify the consciousness of living beings around us to understand ours.

>>11934713
False.

>>11935094
It's scientifical.

>>11935160
False.

In This Thread: People who have fallen for the mistification of consciousness.

Consciousness is the acknowledgement of your actions, tasks, consequences and also the surroundings.

Self-awareness gives us the understanding of consciouness and the power to question reality itself.

Every living being is conscious, from a Tiger to a Moth, they know they need to feed to survive, they know they need to sleep and they know they need to reproduce and they do it.

But the only self-aware being we know is us, humans.

Consciousness is the acknowledgement of the self.
Self-awareness is the questioning of the self.

[Anonymous No.11938766]

>>11929724
Consciousness if it exists at all is just sensing our own thought process. Neurons are made to process outside stimuli. But since human brains have too much of them clumped up together they start "hearing" each other. Eventually we evolved to have coherent "hearing" so we don't go insane.

Maybe.

[Anonymous No.11938778]

>>11929724
This makes me think it is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorders_of_consciousness

[Anonymous No.11938787]

>>11929724
no1 knows

[Anonymous No.11939884]

>>11938757
other animals are self aware otherwise they'd eat themselves

also it's clear to any dog owner that their pets can have feelings

[Anonymous No.11939899]

>>11939884
>also it's clear to any dog owner that their pets can have feelings
anthropomorphism

[Anonymous No.11939913]

>>11930345
based and Samkhya-pilled