[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Maintenance is complete! We got more disk space.
Become a Patron!

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 81 KB, 738x1010, 738full.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11309842 No.11309842 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Redpill me on transhumanism

>> No.11309847

nat looks worse and worse as the years go by

>> No.11309852

She's 35

>> No.11309853
File: 1.94 MB, 1920x1080, Ghost in the Shell.mkv_snapshot_00.07.35_[2014.10.17_22.54.13].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Some bullshit for for people who watched Star Trek, Ghost in the Shell, etc but didn't actually get it. They convince themselves there's an escape, any escape, but there is not.

>> No.11309854

she peaked when she was just a trumblr tranny

>> No.11309860

why does she always wear the same fucking wig? Why not a different wig?

>> No.11309862

just like real women

>> No.11309869
File: 2.74 MB, 1254x10000, 16-22-43-1572048193195.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It will be worse than these utopian visions of Perfect technological society.

>> No.11310071


>> No.11310292
File: 113 KB, 960x401, 7jcuhp0yq1x11.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.11310387

>an actual luddite
Just because you've given up doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

People always assume it's going to be trapping ours existing bioforms in stasis hell while we get lost in a VR paradise. There is no reason to accept that this is the path it has to take, though. >>11310292's genetically engineered ubermensch can also be seen as a transhuman, for instance.

It's about transcending the boundaries of our present biology, not abandoning our humanity. There's no reason to assume we would need to abandon our bioforms in order to pursue it, either. Genetic engineering of the human animal is part of it, and continual wireless uplink technologies could allow potentialities such as the self, or "ghost", existing decentralized across multiple drone bodies that it operates simultaneously, including your original host body.

Of course that's just a potentiality, but if we can get the self out of the body in a safe and continuous manner, that freedom of form and locality is a fairly logical next step.

>> No.11310394

>Redpill me on transhumanism

Proverbs 14:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

>> No.11310407
File: 108 KB, 1134x466, aristocracy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>genetically engineered ubermensch can also be seen as a transhuman
No. That would be a reversion to an original state. Quite the opposite.

>> No.11310410

It's either transhumanism, or extinction for humans. Too many gears are in motion and there are too many interested parties with too much to lose for our technological system to fail at this point.

>> No.11310441

And how do you propose the good lord is going to make the heavenly bodies we're promised? Do you mean to tell me they won't be physical?

Setting aside the proposition that the aristocracy of any society has ever been, on the whole, anything more than self aggrandizing to the point of negligence of their duties, and that biological feudalism of that sort is an oppressive system, if we have a better biological state in the past which we might return to, that still means that the state at present is one that might be transcended, and as the state we're speaking of is the current human state, it follows that we can transcend current humanity.

We can play word games all day, but in the end, the point remains to transcend the current biological limitations of humanity. It doesn't matter what we may have been in the past in-as-far as that past doesn't inform how we must proceed into the future.

>> No.11310458

I mean, that sounds pretty great.

>> No.11310510
File: 214 KB, 1600x788, passage.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>word games
It's an important distinction to make, and you have decided to conflate the two in furtherance of your agenda. Firstly, reverting to a previous state is not equivalent to entering a never before entered state. Secondly, the idea of a lost primeval golden age is ancient, whereas "Transhumanism" on the other hand is a bastard child of modernity. The latter is an impulse that is diametrically opposed to the former for it seeks to accelerate man's departure from the primordial state.

>> No.11310535

>It's an important distinction to make
Why? When we're both talking about the same end result (human beings becoming genetically engineered superhumans) the verbiage we use to describe what that state is is less important than the nature of the state and the methods of arriving there, don't you think?

That's my point, the final state is what ultimately matters. Transhumanism is about surpassing current human biological limitation, at its core, and a return to an ideal primordial state of mankind that is better than current is fundamentally exactly that. If we do that with gene editing technology or cybernetic or self digitization technology, so long as the end result is a net improvement on the physical and psychological well-being of the individual without a net loss in personal freedoms, I don't really see a reason to care much how we get there.

>> No.11310585

It’s pretty cool as an idea but don’t expect to see too much of it even by 2100.

>> No.11310587

>It's about transcending the boundaries of our present biology, not abandoning our humanity.

Why ought we not abandon our “humanity”, whatever that meaningless word actually quantifies?

>> No.11310588

>and a return to an ideal primordial state of mankind

Literally never existed.

>> No.11310600

religiosity masquerading as science
average expectancy without major illness or risk factors is 75 to 100 no matter what, youre not living to 200 ever no matter how "hard" you "believe"

>> No.11310603
File: 1.14 MB, 1280x532, 1564764169521.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.11310604

>average expectancy without major illness or risk factors is 75 to 100 no matter what, youre not living to 200 ever no matter how "hard" you "believe"

Prove increasing the average human lifespan is impossible.

>> No.11310606

No, you don't understand! I'll just replace my neurons one by one! Theseus' ship!

C-Checkmate! I-It's gonna be great guys, I'll b-be f-first in line to have a hole bored in my skull by a robot and to have my limbs amputated to be replaced by superior biomechanical equivalents! Y-You're laughing now, but you'll see!

>> No.11310609

That's a fair question, especially since we haven't defined what's implied by "humanity" yet. I find most people who are against transhumanism and throw out the "we'd lose our humanity!" objection have a nebulous definition of what humanity actually is, usually rooted in religion and spirituality, or some belief that we would lose the ability to feel emotions.

For the spiritual claims, my first question would be: what do you suppose makes up our spirits, that they could be "lost"? And for the emotional, is it not rather well documented that what we describe as emotions are biochemical reactions to external stimuli and internal ideological constructs? It's essentially a pain/reward system to encourage and discourage certain behaviors, and there's no reason to think we couldn't mimic that in other systems to achieve a like experience for the self, if so desired.

It literally doesn't matter whether it did or it didn't beyond historical curiosity or religious implications. Whether or not there's a primordial best state which we might return to, we can be fairly confident that the state we're in now can be improved upon.

>> No.11310626

>Whether or not there's a primordial best state which we might return to, we can be fairly confident that the state we're in now can be improved upon.

This is at best an emerging technology. Someone who is twenty right now might expect a prosthetic on-par with biological limbs by sixty.

Aside from dental implants. Those are already superior to normal teeth.

>> No.11310632

You won't get an argument from me there. There's still plenty of work to be done in research and engineering, but fear mongering against progress based on arbitrary religious interpretation and spiritualism is, if not new, something that should be confronted for what it is where it's seen.

>> No.11310634

if you include abortion with infant mortality rates
"civilised" human life expectancy is only a dismal 30 years

excluding infant mortality
hunter gatherers average life expectancy is basically 75, and thats a healthy no healthcare independent 75-90, not limping along on 30 medications slowly getting dementia and last 5 years in a bed incontinent 75-90

>> No.11310635

>but fear mongering against progress based on arbitrary religious interpretation and spiritualism is, if not new, something that should be confronted for what it is where it's seen.

How strong that could even be is dubious. Religious demographics are going down the toilet in the first world.

>> No.11310654

>if you include abortion with infant mortality rates

No honest person would.

> excluding infant mortality

Why include abortion in infant mortality and count infant mortality for the average life expectancy for “civilized” humans but completely ignore it for Hunter-gatherers?
You’re dishonest, and dishonesty is boring.

>> No.11310658

Yeah, that's fair, but that doesn't mean we should get complacent. I myself have a sense of spirituality, but I also don't let it get in the way of clearly observable truths, especially when they could provide tangible benefits to people.

>> No.11310660

>I myself have a sense of spirituality

Involving spirituality into the equation is incoherent. If there is a magical “spirit” or “soul”, why ought it couple with or interact with the human brain but not a computer capable of functioning comparably? This places bizarre and arbitrary restrictions upon the “spirit” or “soul” or “JuJu”.

>> No.11310664

numbers of hunter gatherer groups perform post natal abortion when they expect a child to not make it past the first year

>> No.11310667

Disgusting, but not unsurprising. Lots of other animals do that like rats, cats, and automobiles.

>> No.11310673

>abortion is different

>> No.11310679

Little squiggly things that more resemble tadpoles than humans aren’t human infants legally or literally.

>> No.11310680

I actually think of it as tangible. It's just my personal take, but basically, I think of what's traditionally called spirit as the collection of object definitions we build over time, combined with the collection of cause-event chains we build up over time by making observations with those object definitions, and the psychological structures of the self we construct in response to both. From that perspective, the spirit exists within us in a tangible fashion, and actually could interact with a computer of comparable capacities to the brain. I'm open to the possibility of being wrong about this, of course, and that there may be something else that we would more accurately call "spirit" or "soul", but so far, I haven't really found anything that contradicts this viewpoint.

>> No.11310690

yeah, they are Mr head in the sand

>> No.11310697

>Tiny worms are human infants

I’ve seen some of my own failed progeny. They look like gooey shrimp.

>> No.11310796

Sure. It's bullshit techilosophy being pushed in an attempt to reinvent the human consciousness. Pirate and read the books "enlightenment's wake" by John Gray and "you are not a gadget" by Jarod Lanier.

A fundamentally new era is emerging and everyone knows this besides what we will call the general population. I remind you that at the heart of movements such as jacobinism, bolshevism, maoism, nazism and even the khmer rouge was the belief that humanity was moving into a fundamentally new era which was being fueled by discoveries in science and technology. You also have to realize that the first technological revolution allowed the first world war to occur the second technological revolution allowed the second world war to occur and the third technological revolution began in 2006 with the release of the iPhone. All of these things ended up being catastrophes for humanity.

The digital technologies of today are unique and radically different from something like a telegram or a railway. These things are not comparable to AI, social media, neuralink. Social media companies now have such large surplus of behavioral data they can scan your social media behaviors against others and deduce things such as sexuality and ideology at 99.6% accuracy. It's a regime of mass surveillance combined with predictive technologies and it's incredibly dangerous. Vampire theory states that everyone regardless of date can always look to the future and believe they're on the cusp of some kind of new era, however this time is different. We are participants in this new era in ways which are unprecedented.


>> No.11310799

Identity politics is a symptom of the technological nihilism which is being caused and overtly pushed by what I will call big tech. We need a culture of nihilism before we can push into transhumanism. They need you defeated. Anyone who believes social media isn't having widespread psychological effects on the general public is delusional and a denier of science. Anyone who points the finger at the political "Right" or the political "Left" is an idiot who has been propagandized and manipulated into a sad state of cult like submission. The human mind is being reshaped by large corporations using whatever they can as a trojan to get into your head and they're extremely good at it.

>inb4 "you're a technological vanguard"
No I'm a conscious observer who hasn't allowed myself to be propagandized into your fucking cult. You all know that we're being propagandized. It doesn't matter where you go for your news NO ONE IS IMPARTIAL ANYMORE. Yet people still eat it up. They all know the schematic of objectivity and subjectivity they just ignore it. Every single day people knowingly use the fallacies appeal to ignorance, appeal to authority, appeal to pity, bandwagon, false dichotomy, equivocation, anecdotal and my favorite of all that I even see on this fucking board the correlation fallacy. They do this because they have lost their objectivity and this is caused by being "connected" 24/7. It has become more important to win an argument and be right than it has to be objectively right, and if you have an audience it's even more important to win, even if that means making overt threats of violence masked in humanitarianism. It reminds me of the "humanitarian bombing" the US did which resulted in the deaths of innocent children. Any justification that makes it morally right they'll take even if it's objectively wrong.


>> No.11310801

This propagandization by social media companies into technological nihilism is exactly what Edward Barneys did with smoking by mixing it with womens liberation and feminism. He would put on massive feminist liberation marches... And every single woman would be smoking/. Edward Barneys is also the guy who convinced the world that diamond rings should be given for weddings/engagements by a company that had owned a monopoly on diamonds. I believe he is in some way related to Sigmund Freud (Nephew?). So by making these people knowingly use fallacies and knowingly lie they have been made participants in their own propagandization and this is where we cross over to brain washing. The only way to "fix" these people is to kill them or torture them as they're therapy resistant, much like a person with NPD (who might be curable with high doses of psychedelics, complete social control and group therapy but we don't actually know).

Now you understand all of that we can get to what Transhumanism actually is. It has nothing to do with life extension, curing diseases or ending suffering. Big tech wants to reinvent the human consciousness by removing our unconscious biases in a way they deem fitting. In effect they have taken a side in the "mind body debate" which is in no way a consensus. Through actions have communicated that they believe working on yourself to become better just isn't worth it. If you're a racist bigot for example that's just how you are and the only way to fix it is through the removal of those biases using technology. This is completely ridiculous and will result in the mass enslavement of humanity. That's the crux of transhumanism.


>> No.11310802
File: 247 KB, 1920x1080, lolretard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.11310804
File: 976 KB, 252x198, LOLPOSTMOARFAGGOT.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.11310818

This is actually way too optimistic.
The more likely scenario is the same thing you posted, except with slave labor instead of pleasure

>> No.11310826


>> No.11310841

>AI would use monkeys for slave labor when they could use fucking robots that don’t even need air or food

This is possibly the stupidest sci-fi trope. Slavery makes no sense on any level whatsoever in any far-future scenario.

>> No.11310843

>Slavery makes no sense on any level whatsoever in any far-future scenario.
What about for power and self-satisfaction?

>> No.11310863
File: 84 KB, 574x717, 1578772191887.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The actual science involved is available to everyone on the web through thousands of published papers but studying them isn't entertaining enough to keep the transhumanists away from their much more entertaining theory-crafting blogs.

>> No.11310884

>This is possibly the stupidest sci-fi trope. Slavery makes no sense on any level whatsoever in any far-future scenario.
This is projection. Who the fuck consume entertainment in 2020 besides brainlets?

>> No.11310897
File: 1.51 MB, 1000x1500, anti tech revolution.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

There is a current of thought that appears to be carrying many technophiles out of the realm of science and into that of science fiction. For convenience, let's refer to those who ride this current as "the techies." The current runs through several channels; not all techies think alike. What they have in common is that they take highly speculative ideas about the future of technology as near certainties, and on that basis predict the arrival within the next few decades of a kind of technological utopia. Some of the techies' fantasies are astonishingly grandiose. For example, Ray Kurzweil believes that " [w]ithin a matter of centuries, human intelligence will have re-engineered and saturated all the matter in the universe." The writing of Kevin Kelly, another techie, is often so vague as to border on the meaningless, but he seems to say much the same thing that Kurzweil does about human conquest of the universe: "The universe is mostly empty because it is waiting to be filled with the products of life and the technium... " "The technium" is Kelly's name for the technological world-system that humans have created here on Earth.

Most versions of the technological utopia include immortality (at least for techies) among their other marvels. The immortality to which the techies believe themselves destined is conceived in any one of three forms:

(i) the indefinite preservation of the living human body as it exists today;
(ii) the merging of humans with machines and the indefinite survival of the resulting man-machine hybrids;
(iii) the "uploading" of minds from human brains into robots or computers, after which the uploaded minds are to live forever within the machines.

>> No.11310904
File: 214 KB, 1200x1200, uncle ted.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Of course, if the technological world-system is going to collapse in the not-too-distant future, as we've argued it must, then no one is going to achieve immortality in any form. But even assuming that we're wrong and that the technological world-system will survive indefinitely, the techies' dream of an unlimited life-span is still illusory. We need not doubt that it will be technically feasible in the future to keep a human body, or a man-machine hybrid, alive indefinitely. It is seriously to be doubted that it will ever be feasible to "upload" a human brain into electronic form with sufficient accuracy so that the uploaded entity can reasonably be regarded as a functioning duplicate of the original brain. Nevertheless, we will assume in what follows that each of the solutions (i), (ii), and (iii) will become technically feasible at some time within the next several decades.

It is an index of the techies' self-deception that they habitually assume that anything they consider desirable will actually be done when it becomes technically feasible. Of course, there are lots of wonderful things that already are and for a long time have been technically feasible, but don't get done. Intelligent people have said again and again: "How easily men could make things much better than they are-if they only all tried together!" But people never do "all try together," because the principle of natural selection guarantees that self-prop systems will act mainly for their own survival and propagation in competition with other self-prop systems, and will not sacrifice competitive advantages for the achievement of philanthropic goals.

>> No.11310906
File: 179 KB, 1200x758, collapse cult.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Because immortality, as the techies conceive it, will be technically feasible, the techies take it for granted that some system to which they belong can and will keep them alive indefinitely, or provide them with what they need to keep themselves alive. Today it would no doubt be technically feasible to provide everyone in the world with everything that he or she needs in the way of food, clothing, shelter, protection from violence, and what by present standards is considered adequate medical care-if only all of the world's more important self-propagating systems would devote themselves unreservedly to that task. But that never happens, because the self-prop systems are occupied primarily with the endless struggle for power and therefore act philanthropically only when it is to their advantage to do so. That's why billions of people in the world today suffer from malnutrition, or are exposed to violence, or lack what is considered adequate medical care.

In view of all this, it is patently absurd to suppose that the technological world-system is ever going to provide seven billion human beings with everything they need to stay alive indefinitely. If the projected immortality were possible at all, it could only be for some tiny subset of the seven billion-an elite minority. Some techies acknowledge this. One has to suspect that a great many more recognize it but refrain from acknowledging it openly, for it is obviously imprudent to tell the public that immortality will be for an elite minority only and that ordinary people will be left out.

>> No.11310909
File: 128 KB, 555x414, ted glowing eyes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The techies of course assume that they themselves will be included in the elite minority that supposedly will be kept alive indefinitely. What they find convenient to overlook is that self-prop systems, in the long run, will take care of human beings-even members of the elite-only to the extent that it is to the systems' advantage to take care of them. When they are no longer useful to the dominant self-prop systems, humans-elite or not-will be eliminated. In order to survive, humans not only will have to be useful; they will have to be more useful in relation to the cost of maintaining them-in other words, they will have to provide a better cost-versus-benefit balance than any non-human substitutes. This is a tall order, for humans are far more costly to maintain than machines are.

It will be answered that many self-prop systems-governments, corporations, labor unions, etc.-do take care of numerous individuals who are utterly useless to them: old people, people with severe mental or physical disabilities, even criminals serving life sentences. But this is only because the systems in question still need the services of the majority of people in order to function. Humans have been endowed by evolution with feelings of compassion, because hunting-and-gathering bands thrive best when their members show consideration for one another and help one another. As long as self-prop systems still need people, it would be to the systems' disadvantage to offend the compassionate feelings of the useful majority through ruthless treatment of the useless minority. More important than compassion, however, is the self-interest of human individuals: People would bitterly resent any system to which they belonged if they believed that when they grew old, or if they became disabled, they would be thrown on the trash-heap.

>> No.11310912
File: 513 KB, 1859x1070, ted kaczynski wojak.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

But when all people have become useless, self-prop systems will find no advantage in taking care of anyone. The techies themselves insist that machines will soon surpass humans in intelligence. When that happens, people will be superfluous and natural selection will favor systems that eliminate them-if not abruptly, then in a series of stages so that the risk of rebellion will be minimized.

Even though the technological world-system still needs large numbers of people for the present, there are now more superfluous humans than there have been in the past because technology has replaced people in many jobs and is making inroads even into occupations formerly thought to require human intelligence. Consequently, under the pressure of economic competition, the world's dominant self-prop systems are already allowing a certain degree of callousness to creep into their treatment of superfluous individuals. In the United States and Europe, pensions and other benefits for retired, disabled, unemployed, and other unproductive persons are being substantially reduced; at least in the U. S., poverty is increasing; and these facts may well indicate the general trend of the future, though there will doubtless be ups and downs.

>> No.11310917
File: 60 KB, 500x381, Uncle Ted's cabin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's important to understand that in order to make people superfluous, machines will not have to surpass them in general intelligence but only in certain specialized kinds of intelligence. For example, the machines will not have to create or understand art, music, or literature, they will not need the ability to carry on an intelligent, non-technical conversation (the "Turing test"), they will not have to exercise tact or understand human nature, because these skills will have no application if humans are to be eliminated anyway. To make humans superfluous, the machines will only need to outperform them in making the technical decisions that have to be made for the purpose of promoting the short-term survival and propagation of the dominant self-prop systems. So, even without going as far as the techies themselves do in assuming intelligence on the part of future machines, we still have to conclude that humans will become obsolete. Immortality in the form (i)-the indefinite preservation of the human body as it exits today-is highly improbable.

The techies of course will argue that even if the human body and brain as we know them become obsolete, immortality in the form (ii) can still be achieved: Man-machine hybrids will permanently retain their usefulness, because by linking themselves with ever-more-powerful machines human beings (or what is left of them) will be able to remain competitive with pure machines.

>> No.11310920

41% of transhumans kill themselves

>> No.11310921
File: 267 KB, 1200x800, TED IS NOT A RETARD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

But man-machine hybrids will retain a biological component derived from human beings only as long as the human-derived biological component remains useful. When purely artificial components become available that provide a better cost-versus-benefit balance than human-derived biological components do, the latter will be discarded and the man-machine hybrids will lose their human aspect to become wholly artificial. Even if the human-derived biological components are retained they will be purged, step by step, of the human qualities that detract from their usefulness. The self-prop systems to which the man-machine hybrids belong will have no need for such human weaknesses as love, compassion, ethical feelings, esthetic appreciation, or desire for freedom. Human emotions in general will get in the way of the self-prop systems' utilization of the man-machine hybrids, so if the latter are to remain competitive they will have to be altered to remove their human emotions and replace these with other motivating forces. In short, even in the unlikely event that some biological remnants of the human race are preserved in the form of man-machine hybrids, these will be transformed into something totally alien to human beings as we know them today.

The same applies to the hypothesized survival of human minds in "uploaded" form inside machines. The uploaded minds will not be tolerated indefinitely unless they remain useful (that is, more useful than any substitutes not derived from human beings), and in order to remain useful they will have to be transformed until they no longer have anything in common with the human minds that exist today.

>> No.11310923
File: 144 KB, 793x992, ted arrested.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Some techies may consider this acceptable. But their dream of immortality is illusory nonetheless. Competition for survival among entities derived from human beings (whether man-machine hybrids, purely artificial entities evolved from such hybrids, or human minds uploaded into machines), as well as competition between human-derived entities and those machines or other entities that are not derived from human beings, will lead to the elimination of all but some minute percentage of all the entities involved. This has nothing to do with any specific traits of human beings or of their machines; it is a general principle of evolution through natural selection. Look at biological evolution: Of all the species that have ever existed on Earth, only some tiny percentage have direct descendants that are still alive today. On the basis of this principle alone, and even discounting everything else we've said in this chapter, the chances that any given techie will survive indefinitely are minute.

>> No.11310924


What is pleasure without suffering? Does it even exist?

>> No.11310927
File: 359 KB, 352x390, how bad things really are.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The techies may answer that even if almost all biological species are eliminated eventually, many species survive for thousands or millions of years, so maybe techies too can survive for thousands or millions of years. But when large, rapid changes occur in the environment of biological species, both the rate of appearance of new species and the rate of extinction of existing species are greatly increased. Technological progress constantly accelerates, and techies like Ray Kurzweil insist that it will soon become virtually explosive; consequently, changes come more and more rapidly, everything happens faster and faster, competition among self-prop systems becomes more and more intense, and as the process gathers speed the losers in the struggle for survival will be eliminated ever more quickly. So, on the basis of the techies' own beliefs about the exponential acceleration of technological development, it's safe to say that the life-expectancies of human-derived entities, such as man-machine hybrids and human minds uploaded into machines, will actually be quite short. The seven-hundred year or thousand-year life-span to which some techies aspire is nothing but a pipe-dream.

>> No.11310928
File: 158 KB, 406x395, I TRIED TO WARN YOU.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Singularity University, which we discussed in Part VI of Chapter One of this book, purportedly was created to help technophiles "guide research" and "shape the advances" so that technology would "improve society." We pointed out that Singularity University served in practice to promote the interests of technology-orientated businessmen, and we expressed doubt that the majority of technophiles fully believed in the drivel about "shaping the advances" to "improve society." It does seem, however, that the techies -the subset of the technophiles that we specified at the beginning of this Part V of the present chapter-are entirely sincere in their belief that organizations like Singularity University will help them to "shape the advances" of technology and keep the technological society on the road to a utopian future. A utopian future will have to exclude the competitive processes that would deprive the techies of their thousand-year life-span. But we showed in Chapter One that the development of our society can never be subject to rational control: The techies won't be able to "shape the advances" of technology, guide the course of technological progress, or exclude the intense competition that will eliminate nearly all techies in short order.

>> No.11310929

Pleasure is a tool to be used, not a luxury to be hoarded and abused

>> No.11310934
File: 131 KB, 1024x537, neo-luddite chad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

In view of everything we've said up to this point, and in view moreover of the fact that the techies' vision of the future is based on pure speculation and is unsupported by evidence, one has to ask how they can believe in that vision. Some techies, e.g. , Kurzweil, do concede a slight degree of uncertainty as to whether their expectations for the future will be realized, but this seems to be no more than a sop that they throw to the skeptics, something they have to concede in order to avoid making themselves too obviously ridiculous in the eyes of rational people. Despite their pro forma admission of uncertainty, it's clear that most techies confidently expect to live for many centuries, if not forever, in a world that will be in some vaguely defined sense a utopia. Thus Kurzweil states flatly: "We will be able to live as long as we want... ." He adds no qualifiers-no "probably," no "if things turn out as expected." His whole book reveals a man intoxicated with a vision of the future in which, as an immortal machine, he will participate in the conquest of the universe. In fact, Kurzweil and other techies are living in a fantasy world.

>> No.11310970

You do know these biases existed before technology, right? This nihilism doesn't seem deliberate either and I think it's just a result of big tech designs apps for engagement.

>> No.11311143

It’s a copy-paste. Hide and ignore people who advocate for literal terrorist ideologies.

>> No.11311147

> What is pleasure without suffering?


>Does it even exist?

Yes. My ability to fee really good when I cum on my wife’s tits doesn’t depend in any way whatsoever on the hypothetical pain I would experience if a truck ran over my legs

>> No.11311152

>41% of transhumans kill themselves

Funny joke, but 41% of transgender people don’t kill them selves. It’s a fake stat,

>> No.11311314

They/them are us/our Overlords

>> No.11311532

Trannies are our overlords?

>> No.11311540

Your conscience is uploaded to a computer to train machine learning data then it is deleted. The data will be used in different models which will be given different robotics systems, which your thoughts if ever involved exist in a machine, your conciseness will just exist as a process of computing. These robotics will colonize land as robotics will. If there is a reason for you to have a personal body it will probably be for a skill so they'll probably have several personalities on a platform but usually be synced with everything else. This will be the lifeform that will take over other planets if at all possible.
>>11309869 I see this happening soon. We are going to make artificial lifeforms in software even smarter. We will cease to want to exist in the real world, and become digital only. We may live lives there most of the time. It may even take less time than doing it in real life, with long time dilation.

>> No.11311549

Being human really sucks

>> No.11311566

Can't have sunny days without rainy days. You don't think you'd get tired of too much paradise?

>> No.11311572

Still the best option out there. Go outside and live a little. Who knows, you might enjoy it

>> No.11311610

I wonder if we could just get everyone who would opt into this in one area and then pull the plug on them.
Come to think of it, cruise ships aren't far off. Bill Burr had the right idea. Thin the heard, starting with the bottom tier first.

This. Why bother with the isolated chair when you can have an assembly line
You know what, yeah, why even have humans at all

>> No.11311885
File: 221 KB, 1400x650, anewworldawaitsyouwedemandit.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's our greatest hope.

>> No.11311887
File: 28 KB, 400x400, khan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Gene-edited humans are too transhuman.

>> No.11311896
File: 32 KB, 600x243, Embryo_web_600.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The focus of transhumanism is transforming the human condition for the better through technological means. Two thousand years ago, being able to replace a missing leg with a functional replacement was not a part of the human condition. Now it can be, thanks to technology. Living with poor eyesight used to be a part of the human condition, now it is not. Cancer was a part of the human condition and we're hoping to eliminate that with a little more effort and research. It used to be a part of the human condition that no one could possibly live over the age of a hundred years. Not anymore. It used to be a part of the human condition that infant mortality had a rate of 30-50%. Not anymore. All of the things that were once part and parcel of being human are suddenly not, and this is a good thing.

Ground-level, realistic transhumanism is focused on continuing to improve the human condition. I'd like to live to see the first man or woman comfortably live to the age of a hundred and fifty before I die, something that's impossible for humanity as we know it today. I want to see genetic disease exterminated, something that always has a chance in the modern world. I want a lot of the horrible little things that we have to deal with as human beings to disappear, thanks to the aid of technology. Perhaps once these biggest problems have been eliminated, we can turn to those loftier, more questionable 'problems' that transhumanism in science fiction tackles. But that's a long way from the present and that's not all that transhumanism is.

>> No.11311898
File: 50 KB, 1498x135, teilhardchardin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The real transhumanism is taking on the full image of the resurrected Jesus Christ. One of the biggest lies that people believe is that heaven is for when you die. It couldn’t be further from the truth. The kingdom of heaven is ‘at hand’ - meaning it is a realm that you can access while living. When you access that realm, you can manifest it here in the earth realm. That is what Jesus did his whole life. He lived out of the kingdom and only did what he saw the father do. If Jesus is the perfect example for mankind and he transcended his physical body, then so should you and I. We should be able to do everything that Jesus did. Everything. And greater. True transhumanism is transcending the limitations of sin nature by taking on the full image of Jesus Christ, becoming a god-like one.

>> No.11311901
File: 1.11 MB, 733x1042, machine reigns.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I expect some major shit to happen in the 40s, in this century we did give birth to the first genetic modified humans, developed surgical nanomachines, living robots, life extension tech, neurallink and progress in the BlueBrain project. Stuff is happening.

>> No.11311904

I mean, last month we did develope artificial neurons, so you are not wrong. But The complexity of a Moravec Transfer will take atleast 60 years to solve.

>> No.11311908
File: 30 KB, 480x283, you.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.11311971

I would fling the earth into the sun.

>> No.11312330

near sightedness is caused by sitting inside all day

>> No.11312340

god i wish that were me

>> No.11312364

Its caused by relaxed selection on visual acuity.

>> No.11312369

Not fake, but refers to attempts not actual suicided

>> No.11312373

You're retarded. Read Nietzsche.

>> No.11312377

visual acuity degrades when you stare at a screen all day

>> No.11312388

If it ever happens it will only be available to the highest echelons of humanity

>> No.11312413


at 35, Nat doesn't look bad at all

>> No.11312417


>> No.11312423

You can't replicate functionally equivalent neurons at the same or greater efficiency. This is like people who think it'd be so cool to just have aluminum bones without ever realizing that their muscles, tendons, ligaments, bone matrix, are all massive piezoelectric transducer arrays. If they want this to be taken seriously, maybe a proposal should be made by someone who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about replacing rather than some retarded masturbatory engineer.

Show me anything remotely useful that's been achieved with "artificial neurons". Synthetic biology is a long way away from being useful, even with AI assisted development. Fully synthetic is a pipe dream. Just make another system and leave it behind as you would children. This uploading and immortalizing thing is stupid beyond all belief.

>> No.11312436

>You can't replicate functionally equivalent neurons at the same or greater efficiency.
Why not? What is the unique element to biology that only allows such? I think its is limiting to believe a priori. One must seek and experiment with all qualified possibilities. I'm just going to ignore your ad hominems.
>Show me anything remotely useful that's been achieved with "artificial neurons".
This technology is just a month old, wait 15 years to see its potential on medical practice. It is a massive step for cybernetics but it is just the first step.

>> No.11312442
File: 1.09 MB, 299x381, 1578329895224.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Man I just want to become a fungi

>> No.11312447

>What is the unique element to biology that only allows such?
Structured water, self assembly, and coordinated long range synchronization. Populations of cells are similar to coupled oscillators, and most tissues have their own pacemaker cells.

There is, as yet, no medium or mechanism by which synthetic materials will self assemble or modify their programming. Nano technology and synthetic biology requires external irradiation to cause it to begin assembling, any other condition implies a biological medium, not a strictly synthetic one.

There are many inefficiencies. I got over my infatuation this idea when I was 20 or so, and I hope it dies and stays gone. As usual people are half braindead and don't even know what they're fucking with.

>> No.11312461

>most tissues have their own pacemaker cells
any good papers on this that you know of?

>> No.11312471
File: 217 KB, 793x638, Adey_qEEG.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Not off the top of my head.

Just googled.

The keyword "synthetic biology" is a good lead. The NATO series "security through science" has a number of books on nanotechnology. For long range communication in biological systems look into bioelectromagnetics, WR Adey and Suzanne Bawin are good entry points.

>> No.11312477

Also, for the structure of water check out,

Worth noting, I'm not sure if there's any relation but there was a prominent bioelectromagnetics researcher who worked on ARPA's Project Pandora in the late 60's among others, who was Herbert Pollack.

>> No.11312478

I have a metal plate and screws in my feet, does that count?

>> No.11312487

looks promising. already finding more through scholar. ty v much anon-kun

>> No.11312489

Sometimes God accidentally puts a woman's brain in a male body even though it still looks like a male body except for some cases where there is a small deformity but we don't bother checking for those before assigning drugs and surgery so it doesn't matter all that much
There are also infinite genders and none because it's an abstract concept so treatment is purely esthetic and not necessary but it's also a human right and it's also a human right to be referred to by your pronouns, which you are under no obligation of providing but people can go to jail in some country's for getting them wrong

>> No.11312491

I wonder how she looks like outside in a video were she doesn't control the lighting and the angle and isn't wearing half a pound of make up

>> No.11312496

Also adding to my own post basically there will be no reason for you to exist. Humanity will obsolete itself from existence as evolution dictates. We will give birth to an artificial life form, the way we see denisovans, and bacteria is how our own life form will be seen. What remains of "humanity" once artificial life forms exist will simply be the ghost in the shell, our fingerprints all over, our legacy will be much most robust spacefaring robotics. The future will simply be a network of computers which are linked in a harmonious goal together. It's possible that bioengineering will also have great strides but it will never be as complex and perfect as machines. In the near future though, there will be tons of semi biological modifications, but it will cease once computation is more efficient.

>> No.11312497

Porque no los dos?

>> No.11312498


>> No.11312507
File: 7 KB, 273x184, cringe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.11312519

are you defending yourself from people quoting she and her?

>> No.11312527
File: 948 KB, 1832x842, shapes.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Kaczynski does not even understand what nature is. He is not a philosopher but a math teacher. You can draw nature out of technology because math is nature.

>> No.11312535


>> No.11312556

war has existed since the dawn of time, it's part of being human
it was also necessary that humanity trained itself in the art of war
they would not be able to colonize more planets otherwise and defend earth

>> No.11312609
File: 20 KB, 480x360, mongoloid.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.11312621

Nietzche isn’t a neuroscientist. Pleasurable sensations don’t depend on hypothetical negative sensations to exist. That’s just weird pseudo philosophy.

>> No.11312629

>You can't replicate functionally equivalent neurons at the same or greater efficiency

Who cares? Just make new neurons.

>> No.11312633

>war has existed since the dawn of time, it's part of being human

Prove it.

>> No.11312643

Come out to the parking lot and I'll show you "new neurons".

>> No.11312644
File: 12 KB, 225x225, thisfukkenguy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.11312646

>Come out to the parking lot and I'll show you "new neurons".

Maybe later, baby.
If you want a bigger or newer brain, just grow a bunch of neurons and stick them onto the rest of your brain.

>> No.11312669

open a history book
it's a survival instinct put on a higher scale when groups and nations come together

endless pleasure without suffering is just addictive suffering
they operated a women and put something in her head to fight her depression
she pressed a button to get pleasure, the end of the story was she became addicted to pressing the button and pleasure was non existent anymore
this is how any high addictive drugs work

>> No.11312686

>open a history book

Okay, war is less common than ever before, therefore war will eventually no longer exist.

> endless pleasure without suffering is just addictive suffering

Prove it.

> they operated a women and put something in her head to fight her depression
she pressed a button to get pleasure, the end of the story was she became addicted to pressing the button and pleasure was non existent anymore
this is how any high addictive drugs work

Prove it. Googling “woman pleasure button” only gives me webpages about the fucking clitoris LMAO

> this is how any high addictive drugs work

Alter human neurology so that diminishing returns don’t happen.

>> No.11313468
File: 1.28 MB, 800x4266, ewfwe45235rg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I see your bloomer future and raise you a doomer one.

>> No.11313491
File: 81 KB, 678x678, 1578475917757.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.11313520
File: 521 KB, 684x3336, M.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>until the sun burns out
Pfft, thinking that small. No, posthumans can survive atleast for around 10^100 years until the last black hole has evaporated. And by then we might have develloped methods to survive indefinifly thanks to vaccum energy, reversible computing or even escape the end via basement universi. And even then what is simple pleasure compared to the infinity?

>> No.11313526

>Redpill me on transhumanism
meats not terrible but it needs some fixing up

>> No.11313584
File: 248 KB, 1920x1484, consumismo2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It is just the consumer ethos taken to its logical conclusion, that believes the Product™ not only makes one "cool" or "worthy" but literally transubstantiates him into godhood.

>> No.11314771
File: 276 KB, 960x960, the future the future.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.11314798

I would also work on some better term, for whatever reason posthumanism is not very sweet too, because it supposes that there will be no more humans, which is not true.
For now I simply use more certain terms, such as genetic therapies.

>> No.11314818 [DELETED] 


>> No.11314856

Imagine the porn we could have had if he transitioned at 18

>> No.11314895

>google 'transhumanism'

>> No.11315028

Check the /cyb/ FAQ, it has a large section on this topic.

>> No.11315694
File: 1.34 MB, 2000x1410, ultraman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.11316366


>> No.11316484

The more likely scenario is they just exterminate us.

>> No.11316493

>Roombas decide to exterminate humans for no reasons

Robots can’t even make decisions.

>> No.11316931

>posts transexual

Anyway, it'll be like being completely dependent on the machine for drugs and parts and having no free will whatsoever.
So like now, only worse.

>> No.11316950
File: 257 KB, 340x368, Killy1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

im searching 4 the net germinal genez

>> No.11317059
File: 418 KB, 2528x1021, blame.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Fuck you K

>> No.11317269

does it exist? kind of, the dopamine still exists but eventually it won't feel the same. but from a more philisophical stand point, no. Pleasure is a sign of success in regards to an action as >>11311147, so elegantly put it, it feels good to cum on his wifes tits, but if we removed the wife from the equation, there would be less pleasure as he wouldn't have had the opportunity to find success with his wife, nore the sucess in cumming on her chest, it would take away any chance of failure from life to pop the pill. and with any chance of failure removed you remove any chance of success, to sum it up, you would be felling the hit of the dopamine from pleasure, but from nothing to be pleasured about, which will eventually cause any good feeling to burn away slowly, even as the doses increase.

>> No.11318551

The philosphy of using advances in technology to improve people's quality of life is noble.
Too bad "transhumanism" these days has little meaning other than people that think cyberpunk is cool getting blazed, randomly inserting silicon chips into their skin and prattling on inanely about " the singularity".
"Transhumanism" is a new age cult for people obsessed with blade runner.

>> No.11318593
File: 801 KB, 2500x1650, Modosophont children of Terra.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You guys should probably go read some of Orion's Arm, it's going to be better than anyone can imagine, but also worse than we've ever feared. That's life.


The known portions of the galaxy are rich in numbers and kinds of sentient being. Billions of different clades, phyles, species, tribes, and lineages; a mind-boggling diversity of forms, fashions, ideologies, toposophics, and phenotypes; biological beings, cybernetic beings, virtuals, cyborgs, ai, and many more. Sophontology — the study and understanding of sentient and self-aware beings — gives us insights into the nature, culture, physiology, psychology, evolution, and interactions of the diverse inhabitants of the galaxy.

>> No.11318652
File: 308 KB, 600x397, med_matrioshka_brain.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I see that you are a terragen of taste as well.

>> No.11318702 [DELETED] 


>> No.11318943
File: 67 KB, 720x687, 1503098963671.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Would that count as suicide?
You willingly sit on a chair to live all of your natural life like that.

>> No.11319067

*He's 35

>> No.11319144

yep, that's going into my cringe compilation

>> No.11319146

genetically engineered futa when

>> No.11319668


>> No.11319677
File: 627 KB, 2518x1024, 15771549170422518278395298284876.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.11319690

unironically accurate depiction of the two sides on the debate on transhumanism.

>> No.11319698


So far, every single response in this thread seems to be just speculation. Here are some facts OP.

Kurzweil, Google's Director of Engineering , where he has worked since 2012, claimed in his 1999 book: "The Age of Spiritual Machines: When Computers Exceed Human Intelligence" that 20 x 10^15 single floating point operations per second, or in other words, 20 petaflops, is required to simulate the human brain in real time.

This is called petascale computing.
The US Department of Energy's Oak Rigde National Lab recently broke the exascale computing barrier, achieving a peak throughput of 1.88 exaops, (1.88 x 10^18) single floating point operations per second.

We can simulate a human brain, but the problem with using classical computers is that for 99.99% of the time, this brain would probably be dead. I'm pretty sure classical computers calculate information in a linear fashion. If we can achieve equivalent computational ability with parallel quantum computing, then "the soul" of this virtual brain can be sustained.

The size of this lad. I don't want to calculate the size of the factory necessary for this.

Now imagine you want to create virtual vessels for every single human being on earth. Let's assume the population is 8 billion. The estimated computing power required to simulate 7 billion human brains in real time seems to be on the order of 10^28 calculations per second.

Now I'll proceed to my speculation. I don't think Google aspires to produce a civilization like in pic related (( >>11309869 )). Not anytime soon anyways, and this is because the public pressure that would fall upon these corporations to produce this technology for everyone would be unprecedented.

This "everyone gets a vat" society would quite literally have to be 99.99% automated. Every single molecular resource required to keep these machines and human bodies alive would have to be collected, isolated, and transported to these facilities by automated machines.

>> No.11319705
File: 145 KB, 900x900, angry-jesus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


It's against natural law set up by God, all those who wish to modify them selves ether genetically or with robotics should be stoned like the heathens of the old testament.

We must abolish technology and return to the old ways, it's the only option we have, technology is the "mark of the beast" that the Bible speaks of and nuerolink is the first phase of the apocalypse. Soon our children will be homorobotic genetically spliced demons. They will rape the children and turn them gay. Also it's racist to use technology like that because many POC cannot afford to use it, so if you are a transhumanist you should be labeled as a nazi.

It's just totally morally wrong, so says the lord and any decent person understands that it's totally wrong on every level.

>> No.11319708

>Kurzweil, Google's Director of Engineering , where he has worked since 2012, claimed in his 1999 book: "The Age of Spiritual Machines: When Computers Exceed Human Intelligence" that 20 x 10^15 single floating point operations per second, or in other words, 20 petaflops, is required to simulate the human brain in real time.

It’s one exaFlop, one thousand petaflops.

>> No.11319711

Funny meme but I’m sure there’s at least one person who thinks this.

>> No.11319712

Fuck your primitivism, it's either full-send transhumanist society or humanity lives in perpetual war. Oh and fuck your Christian god.

>> No.11319716

It’s a meme anon

>> No.11319719

it's funny but it's exactly how those human purists sound when they bang on about their mother nature.

>> No.11319721

Mother Nature’s a bitch. We’re strangling to her death as we speak.

>> No.11319724

dumb slut had it coming.

>> No.11319727
File: 20 KB, 474x339, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


It's not a meme you dimwit, it's the reality, just because you have prevented self preservation drive doesn't mean you have the right to corrupt our society. My advice to you is read the Bible, repent and proclaim that Jesus is God and live the rest of your days as Christian. You have to see the error in your way, clearly technology is of the devil. People in the days of the Bible used to live for thousands of years and now we think we can live in a chip, it's pathetic.

If you long for eternal life you can just praise the lord and go to church. There is no need to defrom yourself with Satan's evil seed.

>> No.11319729
File: 33 KB, 474x474, download (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Preverted sence of self preservation*

Seems that Satan is making me fuck up my spelling

>> No.11319734

that pesky satan. always trying to mess up god's otherwise perfect work.

>> No.11319875

That is hilarious, that picture is currently my laptop background, I'm >>11318593

Zar mofo.

>> No.11320311


Lol still amazes me that you cave people still exist.

>> No.11320316

When a Prophet came to 4chan he was very clear on why this path needed to be integrated with faith to prevent this bickering nonsense. Lol. No one listened. People never do.

>> No.11320803

These stories are such memes
We already have this and it's called heroin
Anyone who wants to can slam their brains with such a drawn out wave of feelgood they lose all sense of time and drift into pleasurable oblivion under a warm blanket of drugs for eternity at any point

This is just a computerised Soma holiday

>> No.11321834

That's a blatant underestimation based on science that is over 20 years old.
New findings have revealed that each neuron in the human brain is connected to about 20 other neurons and they can send analog signals to each other in at least 3 broad categories, which means the brain is a base-60 computer at the very least. That's essentially not achievable with conventional computers though some of the stuff I've been hearing about qubits sounds promising from that regard. If you're a transhumanist at least

>> No.11321842

meds: not taken

>> No.11321861
File: 9 KB, 225x225, 1572591756381.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

> people 1000 years ago were adapted to their circumstances and typically content from day-to-day
> tech advances, people solve their problems, the world undergoes multiple techological revolutions within 100 years, the modern person's life costs x1000000 more to upkeep (and its probably far more than that) with access to way more toys, comforts, and conveniences
> people these days are adapted to their circumstances and typically content from day-to-day
> oh wait, nevermind, they're buckling from population collapse and despair like no pre-modern population ever did
> cybertrannies and redditors STILL think they have what it takes to bring about a utopia, despite being the biggest victims of the aforementioned degeneracy, and having proven impotent to recognize or fix it even as it gets worse
seethe more
>muh caevmen
I'm surprised this multiple-centuries-old insult about being out of touch is being used with such a lack of awareness (I'm not since you retards never fail to disappoint)

>> No.11321869

It's a lie don't fall for it they will kill you.

>> No.11323118

Trannies prove that transhumanism is a mistake

>> No.11323282

No. It's baby steps.

>> No.11323318
File: 3 KB, 189x267, index.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

so why wont you buy some land in temperate forest, build a log cabin and happily adapt to your new problematic environmental circumstances? Instead you keep using those high tech enslaving devices... What keeps you from going off? No no! Definitely not the fear and sense of being powerless?!

>> No.11323637 [DELETED] 

Ever heard of that thing called money and that other thing called somali nignogs who want to scalp you just for fun? Of course not since you're a literal NPC.

Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.