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/sci/ - Science & Math

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11150086 No.11150086 [Reply] [Original]

Is Sci-Hub really a good thing? It's just stealing the hard work of scientists just like other kinds of piracy steal hard work. Those journals can't keep running if people just illegally download papers from Sci-Hub. Some would say the price for access to scientific journals is excessive, but is there really too high a price to pay for science and progress?

>> No.11150118
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11150118

>but is there really too high a price to pay for science and progress
Capitalism says yes

>> No.11150127

>>11150086
Most academics are fucking starving and ridiculously poor. The only reason journals charge is to cover the cost of keeping the material available, but we could alternatively just all agree to post everything into a database and then boom, problem solved. Oh wait, that is exactly what sci-hub is. But meme journals exist pre-internet and if there is money to be made by cucking poor people and retarded institutions (academics and universities) then it will be made.

>> No.11150138

>>11150086
The proliferation of our scientific information is what makes good academia possible. The leeching journals are just trying to make a quick buck, research is something you pay scientists to do, not something they pay you for.
But don't worry, after the higher education bubble bursts, and the retarded American university model along with its fucked up bureaucracies collapse, there won't be academic journals to bicker about.

>> No.11150160

>>11150127
Openaccess publishing costs over 2000€ here if you have an agreement with them. Openaccess meaning putting a pdf on a server and giving it a doi.

>>11150086
Almost all researchers are funded by public money. If the public is unable to verify they're putting that money to good use, researchers were nothing but prophets. Publicly funded work must be made public imho.
Additionally, science is about reproducibility. How would that work if everything was hidden behind a paywall?

>> No.11150170

>>11150160
>Openaccess publishing costs over 2000€ here if you have an agreement with them. Openaccess meaning putting a pdf on a server and giving it a doi.

What part of cucking poor people and retarded institutions didn't you get? Of course it doesn't cost 2k to put a file on a server, you are just suckers getting played.

>> No.11150180

>>11150170
you have 0 idea what grants are, how they work, where the money comes from, what it is used for, why academic journals charge money, so many more.
that 2k comes from a grant. the grant is money given to you for research purposes, it is not *your* money, it is your money to use. I cannot buy shit for myself using grant money like that.

>> No.11150188

>>11150180
What part of cucking poor people and retarded institutions didn't you get?

>> No.11150210

>>11150170
>you are suckers getting played
Not like there's much of a choice. Starting next year, openaccess publishing will be mandatory for us.

That's why I'll leave academia as soon as possible. Publish or perish was a huge mistake.

>> No.11150211

>>11150138

i agree, i also think professors should all teach courses for free

>> No.11150214

>>11150211
You're free to visit lectures. It only costs you if you want to graduate.

>> No.11150216

>>11150086
>Are Jews really a good thing? They're just stealing the hard work of scientists just like other kinds of upper management steal hard work. Those jews can't keep running if people just illegally do science without nepotistic bureaucracy from Universities. Some would say the price for refusing to participate a Jew favored system is excessive, but is there really too high a price to pay for science and progress?

>> No.11150218

>>11150214

thats a lie, lots of professor will kick you out.

>> No.11150227

>>11150218
Never witnessed that. At the three universities I studied at nobody would care, unless you're disturbing the students. All lecturers I know would be happy to have an interested guest. Myself included.
I was visiting lectures before I decided to study and also in between for stuff I found interesting. Never had any problems.
Are you from the US?

>> No.11150234

>>11150227

yes, once I was sleeping in class, when the next class began I was still sleeping, and the professor told me to leave

>> No.11150238

>>11150188
scihub uncucks them. and it will likely never be taken down, so I really don't see the problem. Plus researchers will send you copies of their papers if you just email and ask.

>> No.11150241

>>11150210
Good for you. Universities suck. Just this year they announced that they'll start properly compensating college athletes, and academics are still going to be getting cucked with minimum wage and being slaves to the university? Fuck that.

>> No.11150242

>give taxes to government because if you don't they'll kill you
>government gives taxes to university
>scientists research shit at university using your tax money
>university publishes paper
>HOW DARE YOU NOT PURCHASE ACCESS TO OUR PAPERS THIS IS STEALING
hmmm

>> No.11150245

>>11150218
bullshit, professors love when people want to hear them speak.
>>11150234
no shit she told you to leave, it's not a daycare, why would they want you there if clearly you were asleep from the previous class?

>> No.11150247

>>11150218
In USA most universities let you go to lectures for undergraduate classes without being enrolled in them.

>> No.11150258

>>11150247

I thought it's because in large classroom of over 100 people, the professor has no idea who the fuck you are

>> No.11150267

>>11150258
those tier of classes aren't worth going to. you could just learn whatever is in them for free on Khan Academy at home

>> No.11150354

>>11150086
Piracy is praxis

>> No.11150369

>>11150086
Scientists pay journals to get published, other scientists pay the journals to read what is published. Peer review is voluntary and unpaid.

No scientist gets any revenue from people reading the papers through legal means.

>> No.11150373

>>11150369
So why are journals even necessary in 2019? I understand back when there was no internet, but surely there is a better way to do it now.

>> No.11150379

>>11150373
Without journals the entire system of peer review falls apart. Any lunatic could publish anything they wanted and there would be no central authority to say what is good research and what isn't. That's how fake news develops.

>> No.11150388

>>11150379

yes, and it's better the journal be independent from SJW influences

>> No.11150396

>>11150379
>there would be no central authority
But that's a good thing. If there's central authority then the entire concept of peer-review falls apart. Just have a decentralized voting system that anyone with a PhD from a qualified institution can take part in to determine the quality of each paper.

>> No.11150409

>>11150379
Big Journal is already here
the board members of big journals all know each other resulting in a central authority that have a large sway in the results that are ""scientifically relevant""
Certain labs with nepotistic connections also get more sway in getting away with poor research methods
This turns into cherrypicking and manipulation of what is thought to be scientifically sound ""knowledge"", especially for the masses and the retarded plebshittors

>> No.11150420

>>11150396
>anyone with a PhD from a qualified institution
how is that not a form of authority?

>> No.11150423

>>11150086
>Publish or Perish
>Reproducibility crisis
Two things competent journals could prevent. Unfortunately even in the "top" journals, many are pretty much just pay to play. Fuckers are raking it in on the back of scientific credibility, and at the expensive of the average pleb's trust in scientific groups. It seems like there's nothing unchecked capitalism can't fuck up.

>> No.11150428

>>11150160
More like JewishAccess©

>> No.11150487

Fuck the journals. If I'm poor I can't have access to new research? How would I do science with no money? Fuck it. Get your money elsewhere, for example porn publicity like 4chan here, I don't care.

>> No.11152051
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11152051

>Is Sci-Hub really a good thing? It's just stealing the hard work of scientists just like other kinds of piracy steal hard work. Those journals can't keep running if people just illegally download papers from Sci-Hub. Some would say the price for access to scientific journals is excessive, but is there really too high a price to pay for science and progress?

>> No.11152056

Authors don't get any money and reviewers review for free

>> No.11152070

>Solved crimate crisis, energy crisis, many computer problems...
>$15000 year, life not wroth living

Maybe those people who read those papers have troubles with having money, because they don't have time for that.

>> No.11152093

>>11150086
Will my research gets noticed if I post it just to sci-hub? No...

There should be some "journal, board, news" there also.

>> No.11152099

>>11150086
You are entirely right, it is piracy.
And since piracy is moral and just, sci-hub is a force for good.

>> No.11152132

>>11150086
>It's just stealing the hard work of scientists
You mean like how paywalls that keep their work under lock and key doesn't give them any money from that paywall?

>> No.11152160
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11152160

>>11150487

maybe use science to discover a way to make money

>> No.11152162

>>11150170
>servers are free

>> No.11152163

>>11150086
It’s stealing the hard work of journals, not scientists. The scientists don’t get paid for publishing in nature or science.

>> No.11152169

>>11152160
I heard that nazis could pay for burning jews.

>> No.11152171

>Taxpayers pay money to the government
>Government writes research grants
>Scientists use grand money to do new research
>Scientists publish research
>Scientist submits research for publication
>Publishing company who did not fund the research and did not contribute to the research puts the research behind a paywall where they exclusively profit from it

The entire publication system is a fucking scam and the sooner it dies the better

>> No.11152461

>>11152162
No.
>servers are cheap

>> No.11152529

>>11152162
>servers cost 2k per file
GOOD GOY!

>> No.11152949

>>11150086
imagine not putting your papers on arXiv or equivalent for your field LMAO

>> No.11154283
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11154283

>>11150086
>It's just stealing the hard work of scientists just like other kinds of piracy steal hard work.
ok Elsevier

>> No.11154945

>>11150180
>why academic journals charge money
Please explain why so much.

>> No.11154959

>>11150180
>that 2k comes from a grant
The grant comes from where?

>> No.11155392

>>11150086
All my work is on the arxiv. Who the fuck cares.

There's only one reason people still submit to journals: their work isn't significant enough. Why do you think so many groundbreaking papers exist solely as arxiv preprints? Everyone knows how important those papers are. It's only the brainlets like me who rely on "peer review" to trick others into think I do anything meaningful. It's all cope.

And no, it's not piracy, stealing work. First of, almost certainly that work was funded by the NSF or NIH or DoE or etc. So the results are public unless there's a legitimate security concern, as far as I'm concerned. Secondly, the authors aren't MAKING any money off of having a paywall. It benefits them absolutely nothing. If anything it makes it harder for them to disseminate their work (if they don't have a preprint server in their field). Why do you think we WILLINGLY pay for our papers to be open access? If sci-hub became more mainstream, maybe open access wouldn't be necessary and researchers would SAVE money.

Just some food for thought. Also, you seem to have this horrible misconception that "science and progress" is possible due to "access to scientific journals". I don't know who gave you this impression, but stop it, now. If I didn't know better I'd think that Elsevier wrote that line. Disgusting.

>> No.11155406

>>11155392
Can you submit to a for profit journal and submit to an open source journal? So that your paper is available to anyone who wants it or does submission in say Nature mean you’re not allowed to post it yourself on your blog or something?

>> No.11155415

>>11150086
Hello LIDF (landlord internet defense force)

>> No.11155428

>>11154945
$100 to buy, $80 to rent. Pay those scientists

>> No.11155434

>>11155428
What? Scientists are not being paid for their submission. It’s not like they get a cut of that 100 dollars. They don’t. It all goes to the journal owners. Even the editors get paid a pittance if that, mostly it’s a prestige thing like all academia.

>> No.11155435

>>11155406
Most times you can do so. The only thing protected is the layout and style, not the content. It's not always like that though.

>> No.11155446

At best I know that top medical schools pay their faculty a lot if they get prestigious publications and if they serve as editors it’s an additional payment. Meanwhile that money is not coming from the journal but from the medical school or university. The money the journal charges is a different revenue stream that goes to Springer or something.

>> No.11155448

At best I know that top medical schools pay their faculty a lot if they get prestigious publications and if they serve as editors it’s an additional payment. Meanwhile that money is not coming from the journal but from the medical school or university. The money the journal charges is a different revenue stream that goes to Springer or something.

>> No.11155454

So if you make journals free and still pay academia for publishing, you can promote science and get more access to research in society.

>> No.11155471

>>11155428
>thinking any of that money goes to the authors
Not a fucking cent, mate. You're either delusional or an IFLS redditor or baiting. For your sake, I hope it's the last one.

>> No.11155472

It’s a scam like insurance. The journals charge a shitton that the universities pay and nobody is expected to actually subscribe to something like this on their own. Meanwhile it works to keep independent researchers out of the loop and unless you have university access you are shut out, so it’s a form of gate keeping. The actual costs of publishing is a pittance and the incentive to publish will continues unabated because academics are promoted based on their published work.

>> No.11155477

Here’s the inside scoop: you can become fairly proficient in a field if you just read all the recent research and foundational research in that field. That’s how science should be done. We should give teenagers access to this stuff too. As well as undergrads at all levels. It is difficult at first but once you read five you can read ten more without straining yourself.

>> No.11155482

Historically speaking a lot of smart people got started in science just by reading published research not by reading a dumbed down out of date textbook.

>> No.11155495

>>11150086
Journals will always continue running because they are run by people who make money from their university or lab gigs (with grants) not from running a journal. They run the journal because it is considered service to the scientific community and it lets them be involved in who gets promoted/tenure.

>> No.11155552

>>11150086
>Is Sci-Hub really a good thing? It's just stealing the hard work of scientists just like other kinds of piracy steal hard work.
Bait.