UBI is an unaffordable socialist pipe-dream

[Anonymous No.11083106]

change my mind

[Anonymous No.11083114]

>>11083106
Cutting all social programs and replacing with UBI saves us money.

[Anonymous No.11083115]

Let's see how society feels at 40% unemployment

[Anonymous No.11083116]

>>11083114
this

Removing the bloat, paperwork, and red tape and just going "everybody gets this money" is way cheaper. People underestimate how expensive it is to check if somebody "deserves" money before handing it out.

[Anonymous No.11083119]

Right now, yes. But inevitably we will have to do UBI.

>>11083114
No way. Even in here (Finland) where social programs are expensive as hell government tried exactly that and guess what? People just did not get employed because they did not have to.

[Anonymous No.11083122]

>>11083119
Finland cut all social programs and replaced with UBI?

[Anonymous No.11083124]

>>11083114
You're telling me that a share of 1000$ to a selective few people is more expensive than a 1000$ share to everyone above the age of 18?

[Anonymous No.11083132]

>>11083124
>selective few
except its not, its very many people who must be overseen by very many bureaucrats. Its not bad enough for UBI yet, but it will be.

[Anonymous No.11083136]

>>11083124
>a share of 1000$ to a selective few people
That's not an accurate description of what we have right now, at all.

[Anonymous No.11083138]

>>11083119
Unemployment wasn't reduced by the UBI experiment but it also wasn't increased. Reducing unemployment has never been the point of the idea anyway. The result of the experiment that actually matters is that people had better quality of life, felt more secure and safe, and were generally happier with UBI. That is an incredibly obvious result and the reason people want it. The point is to make it so a person isn't immediately thrown under the bus and forced to live on the streets like an animal if they can't find a job.

>>11083124
A lot of people get much more than 1000 USD per month from benefits, and you're also greatly underestimating how inefficient and bloated various welfare programs are. Realistically, though, there's no way in hell any elected official is going to remove existing social programs that people are already dependent on; once somebody is on a program they start feeling entitled to it and removing a program like that is an easy way to get a lot of really angry people that will work hard to make sure you are NOT re-elected. If UBI actually happens in the USA it will be added on top of all existing social programs. But, again, it's a lot less expensive than you might intuitively think it will be compared to some existing US programs.

[Anonymous No.11083139]

>>11083122

They had a small experiment with UBI, but the results were ridiculous, is not that people stopped working they just took it as a plus or maybe they actually stopped working but simply to invest in education and increase their employability simply because they knew it was a mere experiment that would end at some point.

[Anonymous No.11083147]

>>11083116

You want to do that, you always need to check that the money is going where you want to who you want, people will always abuse the system simply because it's in their best interest to do so(and even more under an UBI where the social ladder freezes), I can give you things like the classic example of "people will just have more kids to get more UBI" to "people will duplicate their identities or not declare deceased relatives" which is something that already happens with retirement programs.

[Anonymous No.11083148]

>>11083115
these authoritarian capitalist cucks don't believe in thinking ahead
they prefer to just crash and burn then turn to murder and conquest to dig themselves out

[Anonymous No.11083151]

>>11083139
run on sentence, hard to read

[Anonymous No.11083155]

How can I prove you wrong if you are correct?

[Anonymous No.11083158]

>>11083147
>having more kids
fertility rate is a problem anyways

[Anonymous No.11083174]

>>11083147
Arguing that there will be people that break the law and do illegal things isn't really a valid argument against UBI. Obviously the alphabet agencies will need to watch out for fraud as they would with any program but it will still be way cheater, since all existing welfare programs already need to deal with that problem.

Also, having more kids is absolutely not a bad thing or exploitative of the system. If somebody feels confident enough to have more children because UBI exists then that's only a good thing. Overpopulation is a meme but the real danger to modern society is the ratio of young people vs old people. We have to many worthless old farts these days and not enough young people.

[Anonymous No.11083183]

>socialist
How is UBI socialist? It won't transfer the means of production from private companies to the public.

[Anonymous No.11083201]

>>11083106
>itt: a bunch of naive "communist" capitalisy faggots arguing that they shouldn't always have to work, because we have a bunch of chinese cucks doing all the real work for us

[Anonymous No.11083223]

>>11083139
Isnt that a good thing though ? Having the ability to take time of for higher education must be good for a society.

[Anonymous No.11083240]

>>11083158
Tell that to Greece, which is having a demographic crisis

[Anonymous No.11083247]

>>11083183
Socialism is more about the redistribution of wealth rather than any specific form of wealth. It's Marxism that focuses specifically on the means of production to achieve that end.

[Anonymous No.11083291]

All these people purporting that UBI will make it feasible to end all social welfare programs are delusional. What will you do with people with cancer or similar conditions, whereby the monthly cost of treating the disease will far exceed monthly UBI income? What about people who waste all their money on consumables and then find they can't afford a place to live: what will we do when the whine and moan and inevitably catch people's sympathy and are given free and subsidized housing.

UBI will exist as further bureaucratic bloat on top of the current framework of bureaucratic bloat.

[Anonymous No.11083295]

>>11083291
>What will you do with people with cancer or similar conditions, whereby the monthly cost of treating the disease will far exceed monthly UBI income? What about people who waste all their money on consumables and then find they can't afford a place to live: what will we do when the whine and moan and inevitably catch people's sympathy and are given free and subsidized housing.
Let them die/freeze.
UBI reduces bloat provided we actually do cut other programs. This is not to say I support UBI.

[Anonymous No.11083318]

>>11083183
people don't fucking know what this word means anymore, leave them in their bubble, not like they have any influence anyway

[Anonymous No.11083321]

>>11083291
UBI =/= health insurance you literal faggot.

[Anonymous No.11083332]

>>11083291
You can pay a voluntary payment every month to an institution that agrees to pay for your health costs if you ever need medical attention.

In first world countries we call this "health insurance" The US should try it out sometime. It's an extremely profitable business venture and good for the economy as it simultaneously makes people healthier thus more productive as well as increase the GDP due to more medical treatments happening. win-win-win for everyone involved.

[Anonymous No.11083379]

>>11083321
I'm trying to disabuse people from the delusion that UBI will allow us to dissolve all other social welfare programs, public health care included. Obviously, if someone has private insurance, then they'll be covered by that. But there will be lots of dumbasses that don't use any of their UBI money to buy private health insurance and will thus end up in the situation I described.

[Anonymous No.11083390]

>>11083332
See below
>>11083379

Yes, personally, if someone is too dumb to buy their own health private insurance when they are literally handed the money to do so, I think they should be left to rot, but what about society at large? They'll wine and moan and complain, until, lo and behold, we have public health care or some psuedo-public insurance scheme nightmare, stacked on top of the UBI.

[Anonymous No.11083398]

>>11083106
Not science or math.

[Anonymous No.11083433]

>>11083390
in my (EU) country we don't have public healthcare. Instead every person is forced by law to be privately insured. That's an easy solution for UBI while still making it 0% government funded. It would also lower costs due to insurance profiting from economy of scale.

[Anonymous No.11083447]

>>11083124
The U.S. has ~130 State and Federal welfare programs. All those programs have overhead, employees to administrate, fact checkers, etc... and they are all compartmentalized and distinct from each other. Its grossly inefficient and liquidating all those programs and putting them under the umbrella of the IRS would make it work.

UBI isn't a socialist program, its a laissez-faire capitalist compromise that increases the velocity of money from the bottom up.

[Anonymous No.11083486]

>>11083106
UBI was originally a libertarian idea from people like Milton Friedman. The idea is that instead of providing people all kinds of different government services and you just give them money and then they spent it in the free market with competition between providers for those services

[Anonymous No.11083503]

Probably going to be the only way to prevent the next communist revolution once unemployment starts hitting 40%+

[Anonymous No.11083509]

>>11083147
Children don't get UBI for exactly this reason.

[Anonymous No.11083514]

>>11083106
>UBI
>Socialist
I want Americans to shoot themselves.

[Anonymous No.11083519]

>>11083106
It's either that or great depression-style bread lines. Take your pick. Automation is proceeding apace.

[Anonymous No.11083523]

"“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."
t. alex f. tytler


>UBI is a step in the sequence of anacyclosis.

[Anonymous No.11083552]

>>11083106
Small brain: UBI
Big brain: Mandatory minimum wage

[Anonymous No.11083573]

>>11083552
Everywhere I look, the corporate media are pushing raising the minimum wage to 'livable wage' standards. This is corporations policing themselves. They do it precisely because they want to avoid people like Warren from gaining power. That tells you that that is actually going to happen.

[Anonymous No.11083618]

>>11083573
Living wages will boost inflation till the US dollar is the new world peso. I know this because I'm pulling this right out of my ass.

t. facts from my mind