/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10845100]

Redpill me on vaccines

[Anonymous No.10845103]

>>10845100
>Redpill me on X
Go fuck yourself.

[Anonymous No.10845213]

>>10845100
They work and don’t cause autism

[Anonymous No.10845228]

>>10845100
The dedpill is offered not given, did Neo ask to get redpilled? No.

[Anonymous No.10845333]

>>10845100

Even IF they caused autism (they don't and the one shill who faked and retracted his study is one of history's greatest monsters) the benefit on the reduction of human suffering from polio to smallpox to meningitis etc would STILL be worth the offset of increased rates of autism.

[Anonymous No.10845347]

>>10845100
They cause autism.

[Anonymous No.10845353]

>>10845347

Baked and retard pilled.

[Anonymous No.10845427]

>>10845213
Are these illnesses they supposed to protect even serious? Are vaccinated kids overall healthier?

How can we know that there are NO bad effects, you just can't, the obvious decision is not to vaccinate as long as particular illness isn't serious.

[Anonymous No.10845430]

>>10845333
> measuring utility through reducing "human suffering"

[Anonymous No.10845449]

>>10845333
this. based saneposter

[Anonymous No.10845457]

>>10845427
>the obvious decision
maybe you shouldnt make "obvious decisions" when you dont even have adequate knowledge of the topic.
>are these illnesses even serious
yes.

[Anonymous No.10845484]

the autism theory is that they contained mercury, but only certain vaccines used mercury in their mechanism and mercury doesn't cause autism and they don't use mercury anymore, so problem solved, of course people with schizotypal personality disorder and retards will still believe vaccines cause autism

however in a way it is a good thing, it proves humans can be suspicious about something like the government injecting every child with something. even if they go about it in a completely retarded manner, if some children have to die to reassure me people are vigilant, if retarded, so be it, they deserved to die because their parents were morons and passed their moron genes to them so it is ok

[Anonymous No.10845489]

>>10845427
>as long as particular illness isn't serious
Name one(1) particular illness that is on the infant and childhood vaccination scheduled that isn't "serious."

[Anonymous No.10845491]

>>10845430
What measure would you use?

[Anonymous No.10845557]

>>10845427

Ask yourself.

Remember that crippled kid in school who was on crutches and leg braces from polio?

No?

Thank vaccines for that.

[Anonymous No.10845598]

>>10845427
>How can we know that there are NO bad effects
Just look at the longitudinal study vs placebo they did.

[Anonymous No.10845643]

>>10845100
They're caused by autism.

[Anonymous No.10845684]

>>10845430
I'm picking up 2 nanoauschwitz of suffering from you. Anything I can do to help?

[Anonymous No.10845687]

>>10845100
friendly reminder you don't need to get vaccinated if you get clamped

[Anonymous No.10845688]

>>10845100
Hep B vaccines causes brain damage in rats.

The anti-anti-vaccine obsession is coming primarily from pseuds who want to feel scientifically literate and secondarily from lying collectivists who don't really care if you get brain damage as long as you're contributing to herd immunity.

[Anonymous No.10845696]

>>10845100

Western science is good and also this. >>10845213

t. lived proximal to a recent measles outbreak in which several dumb Somalis hadn't already had their kids vaccinated due to the autism meme; happily their stupid cult did not preclude vaccination and so their old orange-bearded imams could be convinced that innoculation is a good thing. Of course, I myself never feared, as I'd had a recent MMR bump, but, well, y'know.

"They had come, and hacked off every innoculated arm. A pile of little arms" -Kurtz, Apocalypse Now

[Anonymous No.10845698]

>>10845100
Work but givs you atism

[Anonymous No.10845699]

>>10845688

I am interested as to the details of your personal vaccination status and educational attainment.

[Anonymous No.10845700]

>>10845688

Get lernt or go live the pashtuns in rural pakistan who also don't vaccinate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK190035/

[Anonymous No.10845704]

>>10845699
I already understand why you feel the need to talk about me instead of the truth of the statements I made in that post. But I'm vaccinated and in grad school.

[Anonymous No.10845724]

And since you're in grad school and playing ball for the moment, you know that "I'm vaccinated" is, of itself, a meaningless statement, and I think you're smart enough to have known that wasn't what was asked. Details-what ones have you had?. As to the substance of your earlier post, unless you have the study ready, 1) rats aren't human beings, but test articles pumped full of the stuff (whatever it is) to extrema, and 2) consequently, potentially (not necessarily, if it harms rats there's cause for concern) false equivalence.

In any event, the simple fact of your both being vaccinated (against anything at all) and being in grad school (for anything at all) indicate high socioeconomic status. Good for you.

I can't be fucked to get it off my shelf atm, but I do seem to recall a footnote in Judith Sealander's "The Failed Century of the Child", an excellent examination of social policy around children during the 20th century. In one place IIRC she identified the very few outlier cases of somesuch vaccination, and the fine print about the statistical effectiveness of somesuch vaccine-some kid had a bad reaction to a vaccine, and a lawsuit was won IIRC over some fine print on the product not being explained to the patient. The point of this latter anecdote is that a) I read too, and b) I am not entirely antagonistic to you, but I lean heavily toward Muh Science.

[Anonymous No.10845773]

>>10845724
>Details-what ones have you had?
i don't have a fucking list. my parents gave me the vaccines their doctors recommended they give me.

>rats aren't human beings
they're the animal used to test the effects of vaccines on humans because most humans won't allow you to dissect their brain after giving them vaccines

>I lean heavily toward Muh Science
science doesn't tell you whether you should take vaccines. it might tell you they reduce your likelihood of getting diseases (probably true) and that there's no correlation with autism (seems believable). it might tell you "we haven't noticed people's brains melting after we injected them with this" but it won't tell you "injecting this foreign substance into your body will definitely have no detrimental effects".
most of all science absolutely won't tell you when you are morally obligated to take vaccines because the risk of a decrease in cognition is objectively outweighed by the likelihood of some granny catching plague. dishonest vaccine activists try to distract from those distinctions by memeing about autism and pseuds perpetuate the meme because they want to feel smart.

[Anonymous No.10845785]

>>10845773

Ugh, sorry to hear you're in grad school after this drivel, thought you might have shaped up a bit (though you did the service of a detailed replay at least, though it missed all the important beats). Since it's immaterial at this point, I do wonder the subject.

[Anonymous No.10845788]

>>10845785
>nuh uh you're dumb
keep pushing your memes, pseud

[Anonymous No.10845791]

>>10845704
Cope

[Anonymous No.10845793]

>>10845788

I win! Let's hope you don't get your quarternary degree with that lack of curiosity and explanatory power-oh who are we kidding, of course you will.

[Anonymous No.10845830]

>>10845773

>science doesn't tell you whether you should take vaccines

This is a polio ward full of iron lungs for people with the disease.

The fact we don't need these anymore provides a clear moral good to what vaccines have done.

Smallpox used to be the primary source of blindness and cripples, nevermind death and pain from the disease. That virus is eradicated now.

[Anonymous No.10845841]

>>10845773

>science won't tell you when you are morally obligated to take a vaccine.

[Anonymous No.10845849]

>>10845830
>>10845841

Happy to see the piling-on. I don't have some moralfag stake in this but it really should be insisted, whatever he's in grad school for.

[Anonymous No.10845859]

>>10845849

Anti-vax is like being anti-nuclear.

It thrives in ignorance of both science and real human suffering.

[Anonymous No.10845860]

>>10845841
wats that

[Anonymous No.10845861]

>>10845860

That's an unvaccinated child suffering from smallpox. A disease we don't even vaccinate for anymore because we managed to destroy the last natural resevoir after a successful worldwide vaccination program.

[Anonymous No.10845865]

Antivaxxers are in the same category as evolution, climate change and moonlanding deniers. They didn't arrive at their position using logic and rationale, hell, a fuckin swathe of them were convinced of the autism link by a C-list celebrity on a talk show. Still then they seemed to think death was better than autism. It's at the point, or actually way fuckin past it, where it's a public health crisis and the only solution is government mandated vaccinations with huge, career ending penalties for medical professionals found handing out fake certificates.

If you want to ignore science, go ask your grand or greatgrandparents their opinion on vaccines. Ask how many of their peers died or got crippled in childhood. Ask what it was like to walk through the iron lung ward. This antivaxx phenomenon is one of the most insane things to come out of the US this century and it's painful that it seems to have taken root, albeit to a lesser degree, in parts of Europe.

[Anonymous No.10845879]

>>10845859

Oop, bad comparison on your part. Humans have historically demonstrated themselves to have insufficient conscientiousness to manage nuclear energy to the net benefit of the species.

[Anonymous No.10845882]

>>10845879

>laughs in the safest method of energy production able to handle baseload of societies with low carbon footprint, even accounting for TMI, Chernobyl, and Fukushima.
>lifetime per person waste fits in a 355ml soda can

[Anonymous No.10845887]

>>10845879

>stares in 6,200 reactor-years of safe operation by drunken teenage spergs

[Anonymous No.10846181]

>>10845684
Underrated post.

[Anonymous No.10846789]

>>10845100
OP if you want your redpill look at the redditor in this thread behaving exactly as I predicted. >>10845849
It doesn't care about discussing the subject with any degree of nuance and has to lapse into personal attacks when it can't refute a point. It doesn't care about truth, it just views discussion as a means to manipulate people into doing what it wants. It wants to smear anyone not endlessly regurgitating "vaccines always good" as an anti-vaxxer who needs to be shouted down. A pseud who want to feel like their moral convictions are vacuously dictated "by science" and a collectivist who wants you to be forced to take vaccines for the greater good.

>>10845830
>>10845841
Naming diseases isn't actually an argument that science ever tells you what you should do. Instead of arguing like a redditor who FUCKING LOVES SCIENCE and pushes anyone capable of critical thinking to be suspicious of your intentions consider laying out empirical facts and admitting when you're transitioning to subjective morality.

Practically speaking, as an individual in a first world country you're never going to give anyone polio whether or not you're vaccinated. From a rational standpoint making an individual choice the primary thing that matters is side effects. The idea that your individual choice is going to affect the herd immunity status of your society is a fallacy.

[Anonymous No.10847172]

>>10846789
You are a very stupid person and I hope that one day you realize this.

[Anonymous No.10847542]

>>10845879
>Russians
>Human
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/29057584
A brief history of nuclear accidents in the USSR's northern fleet submarines. This doesn't include accidents in other stages of the fuel cycle, of which there were many

[Anonymous No.10847553]

>>10846789
classical artwork profile picture anons deserve to be keelhauled behind an asphalt paver

[Anonymous No.10847563]

>>10845100
Vaccines in and of themselves are only part of the issue at hand.

The true issue is MANDATORY vaccinations.

[Anonymous No.10847572]

>>10845213
/thread

[Anonymous No.10847576]

>>10845100

[Anonymous No.10847577]

>>10845484
>of course people with schizotypal personality disorder and retards will still believe vaccines cause autism

To be fair, parents faced with a sad and scary diagnosis of a condition that happens for reasons nobody can explain to them are going to be liable to believe anybody who says they have an answer. They are easy prey for the bastards monetizing their misery.

[Anonymous No.10847587]

>>10845773
>but it won't tell you "injecting this foreign substance into your body will definitely have no detrimental effects".

Nothing can tell you that about pretty much everything. Do you avoid a sammich because there is no way to prove there is no way to prove there is absolutely zero chance of E. coli on the lettuce?

[Anonymous No.10847605]

>>10846789
>Practically speaking, as an individual in a first world country you're never going to give anyone polio whether or not you're vaccinated.

Not anymore, no. There is also zero chance you will catch or give the disease to anybody else if you live in the third world. Smallpox is now extinct in"the wild."

But before the vaccination program, people used to die or be crippled for life in the third world, the second world, the first world. Franklin fucking Roosevelt, who lived about the most first world life you can imagine, was partially crippled because he contracted the disease.

It used to kill and maim people around the world, n matter their social class. Now it is effectively extinct.

How do you suppose that happened?

>never going to give anyone polio whether or not you're vaccinated.

We don't vaccinate for it anymore. That's pretty good, huh?

>The idea that your individual choice is going to affect the herd immunity status of your society is a fallacy.

Then why are we seeing measles outbreaks where people begin making the choice not to vaccinate?

[Anonymous No.10847622]

the real red black pill on modern medicine is that antibiotics are rapidly losing effectiveness; they'll be gone within our lifetimes

better invent vaccines for everything important because pretty soon they'll be the only tool in the box

[Anonymous No.10847626]

>>10847563
>The true issue is MANDATORY vaccinations.

If so, it's sort of off-topic here. Public policy can be informed by science, but it is politics, distinct from science. In other words, science can tell you what some of the likely consequences are of a particularly public policy stance, for example it can tell us that the consequences of more people refusing to vaccinate against a disease will be more cases of the disease -- and it can tell us what the risks associated with a particular vaccine might be, for example it can tell us that autism is not a risk associated with vaccines.

But policy decisions are political, and should weigh the facts that science can establish (and disregard the bullshit of conspiracy theorists and con-men), but should also weight issues of individual vs. collective well-being, or rights, about which science cannot offer an opinion.

All science can do in this case is tell us that the benefits of some vaccines are enormous, and the risks minimal. Scientifically, there is no rationale for fearing to vaccinate.

If you want to talk about individual rights vs. collective safety, that is a question for a political board. Unfortunately, the political board here is cancerous -- but that does not make political debate really on-topic for /sci/.

[Anonymous No.10847630]

>>10847622
>better invent vaccines for everything important because pretty soon they'll be the only tool in the box

Or invent new antibiotics. Or a new tool we do not have in the box yet.

[Anonymous No.10847700]

>>10847587
Idk if I saw a guy give rats brain damage with the lettuce I'd probably give it a pass. But the point isn't that I'm confident that hep b vaccine will hurt your ability to think. It's that there's legitimate room for doubt and people try to hide that fact and whip up an antiscientific frenzy of useful idiots to quash dissent.

>>10847605
>Then why are we seeing measles outbreaks where people begin making the choice not to vaccinate?
Because more than one person made that choice.

In a democracy your vote does not matter. Your choice to go to a booth and fill out a form will never change the government. Politicians lie to the masses and tell them their vote does matter because they hope to trick enough people into having a collective effect even though individually all it does is make them stand in a line. And then a bunch of activists go around memeing about how by voting you're changing the world and sperging out at anyone who isn't voting for their candidate. Same thing here.

[Anonymous No.10847704]

>>10845427
measles has killed tens of millions. Yes it's pretty damn serious.

[Anonymous No.10847706]

The real conspiracy is that pharmaceutical companies are refusing to make/market new vaccines since they are a lot of money to develop and don't yield profits. Especially that perfectly fine lyme vaccine we lost in the 2000s.

[Anonymous No.10847715]

>>10847700
>In a democracy your vote does not matter. Your choice to go to a booth and fill out a form will never change the government. Politicians lie to the masses and tell them their vote does matter because they hope to trick enough people into having a collective effect even though individually all it does is make them stand in a line. And then a bunch of activists go around memeing about how by voting you're changing the world and sperging out at anyone who isn't voting for their candidate. Same thing here.

the same thing can be said about literally any human activity that relies on collaborative effort. your vote doesn't matter until it does.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/59873/10-elections-decided-one-vote-or-less

by and large the only people who complain about voting are those that are pathologically lazy or pseudointellectuals with an undeserved air of moral smugness for not taking the extremely small intellectual effort needed to determine one's position on political issues. it's one of those behavior traits that's axiomatically useful for identifying idiots - kinda like believing in astrology or working for an MLM

[Anonymous No.10847743]

>>10847715
>the same thing can be said about literally any human activity that relies on collaborative effort
yes. people fall for the same collectivist fallacy in all of them.

>your vote doesn't matter until it does.
however it never does so you can just shorten that to "your vote doesn't matter"

>i can't refute that what you're saying is true
>but i don't care about truth as much as incompetent, transparent attempts at manipulation
>so i just want everyone to know engaging in antisocial critical thought is basically believing in astrology and pyramid scams
whatever pseud

[Anonymous No.10847753]

>>10847700
>But the point isn't that I'm confident that hep b vaccine will hurt your ability to think.

Your confidence in this is based on what?

>>10847700
>Because more than one person made that choice.

If your argument then is that only one person should be allowed a choice, then you are right, it would make little difference. I doubt that would ever become public policy, though.

[Anonymous No.10847755]

>>10847700
>In a democracy your vote does not matter.
>etc.

Off topic for /sci/. If you want to discuss it on /pol/, I'll meet you over there. But unfortunately /pol/ is shit and I suspect any thread there will turn to shit pretty quickly.

[Anonymous No.10847758]

>>10847706
Conspiracy theories should probably be discussed on /x/.

[Anonymous No.10847759]

>>10845427
>How can we know that there are NO bad effects, you just can't, the obvious decision is not to vaccinate as long as particular illness isn't serious.
Don't be an idiot. Of course vaccines can have adverse effects, just like everything. The question is whether the frequency and severity of the adverse effects of vaccines are worse than the frequency and severity of the diseases they prevent, and the answer is very clearly no. Even though a small percentage of people will have adverse effects from vaccines, and a small percentage of those effects will be serious, it's still orders of magnitude better than the morbidity and mortality without vaccination. So you take your chances. 1 in 10,000,000 chance of serious side effects from the MMR vaccine, or close to 1 in 1 chance of getting measles with 1 in 500 chance of encephalitis and 1 in 1000 chance of death.

[Anonymous No.10847763]

>>10845427
>Are these illnesses they supposed to protect even serious?

Don't know about the rest, but polio was def worth it.

[Anonymous No.10847779]

>>10847753
I didn't say I was confident. That wasn't implied. I will say that my assumption is taking hep b vaccine is worse for your brain than not taking it. I just don't know the extent.

>>10847755
It was a metaphor for the situation with vaccine culture. You intentionally hid that in your >etc.

>we shouldn't be doing anything besides listing empirical facts from scientific papers
maybe you should go back and start scolding the posters telling everyone they should get vaccinated too. otherwise it might look like you were ok with tangential conversation as long as it wasn't about an idea you want to suppress.

[Anonymous No.10847785]

>>10847763
Measles as well. Pre-vaccination, there were roughly 475 deaths a year in the US. There were on average 48,000 hospitalizations and about 1,000 case of encephalitis brought on by the disease. The last death in the US from measles was in 2015. The disease had been essentially eradicated here, though it persists in much of the rest of the world, and as people who fall for the anti-vaccination scam create pockets of opportunity, it shows up from time to time when re-introduced from those areas. The disease is currently on the rise again in the US thanks to anti-vaccination nonsense.

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/downloads/MeaslesDataAndStatsSlideSet.pdf

[Anonymous No.10847788]

>>10847779
>I didn't say I was confident.

>>10847700
>I'm confident that hep b vaccine will hurt your ability to think.

Have I gotten confused? Are these both not the same poster?

[Anonymous No.10847796]

[Anonymous No.10847800]

>>10847788
You're some combination of ESL and dishonest.

>But the point isn't that I'm confident that hep b vaccine will hurt your ability to think.
The point being something other than X does not mean X is true.

[Anonymous No.10847805]

[Anonymous No.10847806]

>>10847704
measles is just the common cold. It's literally just as deadly as chicken pox, but our media has somehow upscaled how "deadly" it is.

Measles used to be something a child got sick over and then went back to normal. The only people who died from measles were people who were going to die from any other disease, aka old people or people with weak immune systems.

[Anonymous No.10847808]

>>10847779
>It was a metaphor for the situation with vaccine culture. You intentionally hid that in your >etc.

It was still political discussion, which is not really on topic here.

>>we shouldn't be doing anything besides listing empirical facts from scientific papers

On /sci/, yeah. This is a board for discussion of science. As I said, in formulating policy, we will of course go beyond that. But that is not relevant to a discussion of the science.

>maybe you should go back and start scolding the posters telling everyone they should get vaccinated too.

If anybody here has argued that vaccine policy should require mandatory vaccination, then yeah, I herewith say the same thing to them. If they were saying that the science shows that they should get the vaccines, then I won't "scold them," they are right, everybody should, irrespective of government policies.

>otherwise it might look like you were ok with tangential conversation as long as it wasn't about an idea you want to suppress.

Yeah, well when you come on /sci/ and argue against what the science shows, you are going to be outnumbered and feel picked on, I guess that is unavoidable.

[Anonymous No.10847819]

>>10847808
>what the science shows
Imagining you know what it shows. Have you ever even read a vaccine insert?

[Anonymous No.10847824]

>>10847626
point ceded

[Anonymous No.10847826]

>>10847800
Perhaps I misread your posts. If so, I fucked up.

To clarify, if you do have some reason to believe that Hep B vaccine hurts your ability to think, I'm still interested in knowing what your reasons are.

Up front, I'll tell you honestly that I am not going to go watch a YouTube video, but if you write what your thinking is, I'll read it.

[Anonymous No.10847830]

>>10847806
Cool. If true, will you man up and go around to these people and their families and explain tot hem that you need them to die so people can dodge essentially harmless vaccines that prevent the disease?

[Anonymous No.10847832]

>>10847626
>Scientifically, there is no rationale for fearing to vaccinate.

Vacciphobia?

[Anonymous No.10847836]

>>10847830
>essentially harmless
Needles harm.

[Anonymous No.10847837]

>>10847806
1 in 4 cases of the measles in the US requires hospitalization. If you want to say that's equivalent to the common cold, please bring your source.

Mine is https://www.cdc.gov/measles/downloads/MeaslesDataAndStatsSlideSet.pdf

[Anonymous No.10847839]

>>10847626
>>10847824
Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.10847840]

>>10847832
OK, no legitimate reason...>>10847836

[Anonymous No.10847842]

>>10847836
To what extent?

[Anonymous No.10847844]

>>10847743
it's not critical thought if the only basis for your decision is 'lol nihilism'

taking no active position on any political issue whatsoever is pretty much antithetical to the idea of critical thinking, because not voting means you're essentially just giving tacit approval to whoever everyone else picks. where's the critique?

[Anonymous No.10847846]

ctrl+f "aluminium"
>0 results

[Anonymous No.10847851]

>>10847842
The diameter of the needle at least...

I don't like needles, why should I pierce my flesh?

One wound now to prevent the possibility of another? I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.10847859]

>>10847846
Aluminum oxyhydroxide (alum) is a crystalline compound widely used as an immunological adjuvant of vaccines. Concerns linked to the use of alum particles emerged following recognition of their causative role in the so-called macrophagic myofasciitis (MMF) lesion detected in patients with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue/syndrome. MMF revealed an unexpectedly long-lasting biopersistence of alum within immune cells in presumably susceptible individuals, stressing the previous fundamental misconception of its biodisposition.

[Anonymous No.10847861]

>>10847851
But what if you go your whole life and don't get the diseases!? Best to be sure and inject them directly into your body.
Make sure and don't use any reasonable administration method like an oral does or a nasal mist. Simply bypass those and jam it right in there.

[Anonymous No.10847863]

>>10847808
Moving the goalpost. Making moral judgements and making subjective comparisons relating to the risks and benefits of vaccines are both not listing empirical facts from scientific papers. I think you should go reprimand the people that posted those things to avoid the impression that you're ok with non-scientific discussion.

>>10847844
You're talking a lot about value judgements when I was just making factual statements. Make sure the above guy doesn't catch you doing that.

>>10847826
There were studies where a dude gave rats brain damage with hep b vaccine. It's not a ton of evidence and I'm not super confident. It's still more evidence that hep b is bad for your brain than i have that it has no effect so as a devout bayesian my expectation is that it's bad for your brain.

[Anonymous No.10847871]

>>10845213
They work for weak people that nature otherwise would have had die, who will then go on to propagate their weak, shit tier immune system to their children and have them suffer and all their offspring suffer. Vaccines were a mistake. Let nature take its course. We have overpopulation as is. Reducing childhood mortality rate is a cucked, low IQ goal. The fact that vaccines work makes them all the more dangerous for the health of the species in the long run.

[Anonymous No.10847909]

>>10847837
How do they get that number? They can only track how many people go to the hospital to treat their measles, but they can't track how many people contracted it, thought it was the common cold, and went on with their lives. Sounds like a scare tactic to me.

[Anonymous No.10847925]

>>10847909
I clicked through to the source. The source at the end of the line is just an article making a claim with no evidence.

[Anonymous No.10847936]

>>10845100
They're the reason you're autistic.

[Anonymous No.10847942]

>>10845643
this

[Anonymous No.10847967]

>>10847925
Oh wow, so now the (((CDC))) is just using scare tactics and preying on the ignorance of the population the same way the (((AAP))) did with circumcision and their 21 page report analyzing only the positives of it? (aka not weighing both sides evenly)

[Anonymous No.10848784]

>>10847763
The polio vaccine, like many others, was already dying out by the time the vaccine was introduced.

>>10847779
It isn't due to anti-vac nonsense, it seems to actually be the opposite.
https://thevaccinereaction.org/2019/05/children-in-two-states-get-vaccine-strain-measles-from-mmr-vaccine/

also see"
https://www.scribd.com/doc/220807175/157-Research-Papers-Supporting-the-Vaccine-Autism-Link?fbclid=IwAR0hozz9iDf_hqNc4ZFlt4xeDbW5hR53JoZP1HhbzOVT-6oWBgi-NTIvniQ

[Anonymous No.10848884]

>>10845100
A brief summary.
-Refer to section 13 of every single vaccine insert:
"[Vaccine] has not been tested for mutagenic potential, carcinogenic potential or impairment of fertility."
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/vaccines-licensed-use-united-states

-Vaccines are never tested in randomized double blind placebo controlled trials. In fact, they're never tested against a placebo at all.

-Vaccines manufacturers were given blanket legal immunity for all damages nearly 30 years ago. This was because lawsuits were bankrupting them.

-Most of what people attribute to vaccines was actually accomplished with nutrition, sanitation, and refrigeration. Polio is a very long story and has to do with the fact that DDT was everywhere and the mothers were being given diethylstilbestrol during pregnancy. Soldiers abroad did not pass polio to the surrounding population. The polio epidemic was pretty much the cutter incident and happens to coincide with the rockefeller institute for medical researches work on weaponizing polio. People were curing polio even int he flaccid paralysis stage with injections of sodium ascorbate, some copper compounds, and a few other things. The others have similar stories. Tetanus is an absurdity due to how rare it is.

-Vaccines are linked to all kinds of diseases. Among them, allergies, asthma, childhood onset type 1 diabetes, and epilepsy.

Take the hep B series for example. And I really mean it. Let go of everything you think you know and take a step back. The first shot in the series is less than 12 hours after birth. Why would any given power structure want near certain access to its population's bloodstream right after birth? Why when the child can't even form any immunity from it? Perhaps because this is the point, the child's immune system cannot respond to what is being put in it.

I say get rid of all of them. All of these outbreaks it's mostly vaccinated people that are contracting the diseases.

[Anonymous No.10848908]

>>10847743
What time is it in Russia?

[Anonymous No.10849599]

>>10845333
I thought the reduction of human polio and smallpox came from water drainage and overall better hygiene?
And yes, they probably cause autism, hyperactivity, multiple sclerosis, allergies and some other shit.

Healing a disease before it even happen is retarded.
In any case, many diseases autist shots are supposed to protect from, are curable in modern hospitals.

[Anonymous No.10850140]

>>10849599

>water drainage and hygiene

That's because you're retarded and are fumbling for anything to justify your irrational fear of people living healthy lives.

Because polio vaccine also reduced infection rates in places without those.

Start executing the most basic level of critical thinking for once in your life.

[Anonymous No.10850147]

>>10848884

>I don't like people taking me seriously: the post

[Anonymous No.10850166]

>>10849599
What's your academic background, out of interest?

[Anonymous No.10850227]

>>10850147
That's some solid feedback.
Well done.

The only improvement I can think of though would be including some arguments.

[Anonymous No.10850231]

>>10850140
Irrational fear of autism, allergies and neurodegenerative diseases perhaps.

>>10850166
The famous argument from authority. Even on an Anon board.
You like authority anon? Is it cool? You feel reassured, protected?

[Anonymous No.10850240]

>>10850231
Literally just interested in your background what are you talking about? only fuckin incel virgins invoke fallacies you absolute weapon.

[Anonymous No.10850243]

>>10850227

You have yet to assert anything but schizoposting talking points.

[Anonymous No.10850244]

>>10850231

>muh autism vaccines

I hate Jenna McCarthy.

[Anonymous No.10850268]

>>10850243
So you don't have to respond because you don't like it.
Well done.

How old are you? I've been having to tell people how to think and converse for the last 15+ years now, but it never used to be this bad. If you're like 18 or so that would be valuable information about the state of things.

[Anonymous No.10850291]

>>10845100
Have fun dying of Polio, asshole.

[Anonymous No.10850399]

>>10850240
What my background has to do with anything in the internet era?
I could be a medical Phd and be wrong, because i've been brainwashed by big pharma, or be a NEET and be right.
Only the argument in itself has weight. And there has been a lot of studies of infants and adults who developed neurological issues immediately after being shot with vaccines.

[Anonymous No.10850408]

>>10850399
I mean your argument is great and all sweety, good job. I'm just interested in your academic background.

[Anonymous No.10850412]

>>10845100
They CLAMP, they CIRCUMCISE, they VACCINATE.

[Anonymous No.10850436]

>>10850412
And then people who got clamped, circumcised, and vaccinated, say it's wonderful. This looks like the Stockholm syndrome.

[Anonymous No.10850670]

>>10845103
First post, best post.

[Anonymous No.10850686]

>>10847859
the condition you're referencing here is absurdly rare, while infectious diseases are not

[Anonymous No.10850692]

>>10850686
When you've dumbed down your children enough, if we can wrestle control from the power structure that did it to you, we will have the option of permanently subjugating you and your children. Think about that a bit, useless eater.

[Anonymous No.10850697]

>>10850692
go pass undergrad. or have sex. or both.

[Anonymous No.10850706]

>>10850268
He called you schizo, the argument is therefore over, you lost.

[Anonymous No.10850709]

>>10850697
More likely I'll get tired and adopt a "catch and release" policy. We'll be powerful enough so we'll never have to worry about the braindead cattle, and we'll temporarily enslave you until it's clear you get the picture. And you realize how to live.

If you still don't understand why you don't inject poison into children after a certain amount of time, you'll be executed. We are the filter.

[Anonymous No.10850713]

>>10850709
>he doesn't hate children enough to poison them
What are you even doing here?

[Anonymous No.10850793]

>>10850709
im on the inside though. I work for pharma.

[Anonymous No.10850826]

>>10850793
We believe you, anon.

[Anonymous No.10850834]

>>10847863
>I think you should go reprimand the people that posted those things

See:
>>10847808
>If anybody here has argued that vaccine policy should require mandatory vaccination, then yeah, I herewith say the same thing to them.

[Anonymous No.10850842]

>>10850399
>here has been a lot of studies of infants and adults who developed neurological issues immediately after being shot with vaccines.

Please cite them, I'm interested.

[Anonymous No.10850889]

>>10845724
>>10845785
lol it's like your cosplaying some pretentious intellectual douchebag

[Anonymous No.10850898]

>>10847819
Do they come with abstracts I could skim instead?

[Anonymous No.10850899]

>>10850399
what exactly do you think a PhD degree is? Do you know what an experiment is? How do you fake experimental results? How is big pharma changing up my experimental results to say what they want me to say? You think non pharma testing of vaccines hasnt been done to discredit them by rival companies or entities? You think this is pervasive throughout the ENTIRE WORLD, not just wherever you live?
>I could be a medical Phd and be wrong, because i've been brainwashed by big pharma, or be a NEET and be right.
this has to be an advanced 50/50 it either happens or it doesnt meme. No one is this stupid.
>And there has been a lot of studies of infants and adults who developed neurological issues immediately after being shot with vaccines.
post em!

[Anonymous No.10850910]

>>10845100
Designed to make you sick, dependent, and dumb you down. Hence injections at birth and early clamping of the umbilical cord.

[Anonymous No.10850923]

>>10850899
>what exactly do you think a PhD degree is?
Something that, if you had it, you could easily post proof of it.

[Anonymous No.10850929]

>>10850923
>what exactly do you think a study is?
Something that, if you had it, you could easily post proof of it.

[Anonymous No.10850933]

>>10850923
give me 2 years. slightly more than halfway

[Anonymous No.10851467]

>>10850268

I don't have to respond because I don't have to argue with anti-vax crystal energy healers.

[Anonymous No.10851551]

>>10848884
>Refer to section 13
Not every single insert has that format which shows you barely read the fucking thing. Also you understand why they restrict some vaccines right? Doctors need to understand the risks of treatments and weight against the severity of the problem. A fucking heart transplant has severe issues at the long run, but is better to have it than to just fucking die. That's why those precautions are explicitly put in those reports. But if you read for the vaccines given to children, they have been tested for all that shit.

>Vaccines are never tested in
Vaccines were tested in rct when the medical community didn't know if they were effective. The reason modern vaccines aren't tested this way is because they already fucking know they work and obviously you cannot test children by not vaccinating them if you already know they fucking work. Maybe in china if you don't give a fuck about ethics and you are an edgelord.

>legal immunity
Besides being not a medical argument, and not an argument in general, that act was passed because your for some reason, your lawsuits passed even if the whole medical community showed there was no link between vaccines and the literal anecdotal evidence that was being put out about them causing disability.

>The rest of your shitpost
I have no idea were you got this. It's a blatant lie and you provide no fucking source. So you are a faggot.

[Anonymous No.10851574]

>>10851551
>Not every single insert has that format
Yes, they essentially do. The only exception is where they claim to have tested for impairment of female fertility, whatever "evaluated" means in their word. Like junk science, like the rest of their work.

>Doctors need to understand the risks[...]
There's nothing of substance in the rest of this paragraph. I'm just acknowledging that I didn't skim your post, and theoretically risk:benefit is a thing, but there are other factors and incentives behind the scenes.

>Vaccines were tested in rct when the medical community didn't know if they were effective.
This paragraph doesn't make sense. They're never tested against a placebo. Childhood vaccinations are not studied in any controlled manner, which is the absolute bare minimum. Placebo controlled would be ideal, which I'm apprehensive about in that you have to vaccinate one of the groups, but what can you do. The children are maimed anyway.

>Besides being not a medical argument
Ah, I see. You don't like to think big picture. You prefer strict interpolation and you just stop when you hit a wall. We're not going to get on very well at this rate.

No, the act wasn't passed to shield manufacturers from fraudulent lawsuits. That's absurd

>I have no idea were you got this.
Because you haven't actually looked into vaccines. :^)
>(Fuck you, btw)

[Anonymous No.10851594]

>>10851574
>Yes they essentially do
https://vaxopedia.org/2017/07/10/how-to-read-a-package-insert-for-a-vaccine/
Here
>but there are other factors
What are those?
>They're never tested against placebo.
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/blog/vaccine-randomized-clinical-trials
>That's absurd
That literally was the point. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/history/index.html#injuryact https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8968002

[Anonymous No.10851652]

>•Between 3 and 5 months of age, children who received DTP and OPV early had 5-fold higher mortality than still unvaccinated children.
https://www.ebiomedicine.com/article/S2352-3964(17)30046-4/abstract

There is only one study comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated. The results show why there is only one such study.

[Anonymous No.10852164]

>>10850933
Oh great, you'll have a PhD. Congrats anon. You'll be respected in the world.

[Anonymous No.10852208]

>>10847871
Im gonna un vax your kids fag & see how they like it

[Anonymous No.10852230]

>>10851652
Well, pro-vax will say: "proof"?
Because only their "proofs" are proofs.
Others proofs are conspiracies, and not legit. Only their little world is right. Which is mainstream world by the way.

[Anonymous No.10852857]

>>10851652

Yes, because DTP weakens the immune system and exposes them to other diseases, hence why you should wait for some vaccines and not others.

Note the difference between 3 months and 5 months is enough not to see the increase.

Also note that those who took both the oral polio vaccine AND DTP did better overall than those that took DTP only.

[Anonymous No.10853139]

Vaccines have rare and sometimes severe side effects.

On the whole, vaccines work.

The interest of the government is in herd immunity, which is why vaccines are pushed hard and side effects are generally not publicized.

Health impact of multiple vaccines taken at the same time has worryingly not been examined. This may cause issues due to toxic dose of e.g. aluminum.

I would recommend vaccines as the alternative is generally worse (though not always, e.g. when was the last polio outbreak? Why are we still risking side effects with the polio vaccine?

[Anonymous No.10853159]

>>10853139
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.10853194]

>>10853159
great argument. Everything I wrote is factually correct. I have researched this extensively.

[Anonymous No.10853273]

>>10853194
>>>/facebook/

[Anonymous No.10853306]

>>10853139
The side effects and vaccine effectiveness when multiple are simultaneously administered are studied, and are one of the bases for vaccination schedules

Oh, and the only polio vaccine we take today is the IPV (the killed one), which isn't risky but is less immunogenic. The goal is that polio doesnt come back, because both wild type and OPV polio exist and we don't want an outbreak happening again. Unlike smallpox, polio is still out there.

People in the third world take the attenuated OPV because it gives more protection and theyre more at risk. But low coverage of OPV opens the door for reversion into more virulent types

[Anonymous No.10853423]

>>10845427
look at all the (you)s you are getting with this lmao

[Anonymous No.10853436]

>>10853194
please share the primary literature you have "researched".

[Anonymous No.10853807]

>>10847871
Then you should be going after doctors and collapse the health system.

[Anonymous No.10853925]

>>10845213
that

[Anonymous No.10853929]

>>10845427
why are you on /sci/? lol

[Anonymous No.10853934]

>>10852857
Unvaccinated kids were still more likely to survive, and this means vacciness have interactions. Which have not been studied. With no other medicines would it be acceptable for a doctor to give a dozen different medicines with unknown interactions.

[Anonymous No.10853967]

>>10853934

There were no unvaccinated children in the study.

The birthdate scheduling system just changed whether the children were vaccinated at 3 months or 5 months. The study intentionally excluded unvaccinated due to things like low birth weight, etc.

This all goes to show that vaccines need to be spread out to appropriate times because they can and do affect the immune system.

[Anonymous No.10854274]

>>10853967
>There were no unvaccinated children in the study.
>The child population had been followed with 3-monthly nutritional weighing sessions since 1978. From June 1981 DTP and OPV were offered from 3months of age at these sessions. Due to the 3-monthly intervals between sessions, the children were allocated by birthday in a ‘natural experiment’ to receive vaccinations early or late between 3 and 5months of age. We included children who were <6months of age when vaccinations started and children born until the end of December 1983. We compared mortality between 3 and 5months of age of DTP-vaccinated and not-yet-DTP-vaccinated children in Cox proportional hazard models.

The only data we have of vaccines is that they increase total child mortality. This goes to show that we should not vaccinate until and unless we have data showing they have positive effects.

[Anonymous No.10854289]

Interesting sidenote. The more highly vaccinated state in the US, New Jersey, also has the highest autism rate.

Another curiosity. The US has among the highest rates of maternal mortality, and our infant mortality isn't much better.

>themoreyouknow.jpg

[Anonymous No.10854332]

>>10854289
> among the highest rates

lmao nigga is you drunk? regardless, Finland has an effective 100% vaccination rate, top five lowest infant and maternal mortality and a quarter of the autism rate of the US.

[Anonymous No.10854364]

>>10854332
Finland isn't full of Americans lmao

[Anonymous No.10854382]

Reminder that as long as vaccines "work" (which they demonstrably do) they're worthwhile no matter what the rare side effects may be.

[Anonymous No.10854724]

>>10845100
mandatory anything one should be wary of.

[Anonymous No.10855267]

>>10845100
you can get literally anything injected by them,

you dont know whats in them, not even the guy injecting it knows

[Anonymous No.10856762]

>>10855267
It varies. Some don't even have the pathogen.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/128CfYaaJdMwhx5yvCGDRggl5GIKyfWrC/view

[Anonymous No.10856767]

>>10854332
Finns take a tiny fraction of the vaccines Americans do and far later in life. Finns don't inject newborns and don't have 70 injections.

[Anonymous No.10856788]

>>10856767
> finns dont inject newborns

Why would you say something so false and yet be so confident when you do so?

[Anonymous No.10856800]

>>10856788
If any one wanted proof. Vastasyntynyt means newborn. BCG is... well BCG. and it's administered by injection.

[Anonymous No.10856805]

>>10856767
The myth that Americans vaccinate an insane amount more than other developed countries is, well, a myth.