/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10735654]

how do you smart niggers explain ghosts, poltergeists, ufos and shit like that?

[Anonymous No.10735678]

>>10735654
don't exist

[Anonymous No.10735683]

f(paranormal)=no

[Anonymous No.10735684]

>>10735678
explain recurring phenomena

[Anonymous No.10735685]

>>10735654
retard

[Anonymous No.10735688]

[Anonymous No.10735692]

I don't know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70iX51yq3Cc

[Anonymous No.10735695]

You were on drugs at the time. Pure delusion.

[Anonymous No.10735701]

>>10735695
I don't do drugs. UFOs are real.

[Anonymous No.10735803]

>>10735654
Don't exist. Think about it this way, we'd have nightly news reports of "family forced to flea home due to ghost" You'd have ghosts trying to fuck with geopolitics, attain nuclear codes ect. But instead all we get are a few idiots claiming a door slammed by itself.

UFOs or aliens to be specific is another hoax. They have not visited us. Think about the massive undertaking it would be for a species to traverse from 1 star to another. They wouldn't be coming in small ships. It wouldn't be some short visit. It would be a BIG event for them and us.

Ufo sightings are either faked or the people recording are recording a government vehicle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC97wdQOmfI

[Anonymous No.10735932]

>>10735803
>Ufo sightings are either faked or the people recording are recording a government vehicle.
How retarded are you? UFO means that it's flying and not identified.

[Anonymous No.10735955]

Using the scientific method.
In science, an eye witness testimony is the lowest form of evidence, so low that it has no value and is invalid. In other words, unless you can prove to me that something is true using a repeatable experiment, I do not believe it. It really is that simple, interloper.

[Anonymous No.10735956]

>>10735803
how do you explain stuff even the military can't?

[Anonymous No.10735968]

>>10735955
what if the eye witnesses are experts at aviation and have no idea what the fuck they're seeing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RlbqOl_4NA

[Anonymous No.10735978]

>>10735968
Invalid because eyes suck at seeing and brains suck at remembering

[Anonymous No.10735980]

>>10735978
that's shot with a thernal camera dude

[Anonymous No.10735986]

>>10735955
Can you prove that anything scientific exists ??

[Anonymous No.10735997]

>>10735968
What if the moon is made of cheese? Look faggot, there are only a few lines of reasoning to explain these phenomena in the realm of theoretical physics. My best guess is that flying saucers accelerate masses inside of an internal tokamak to relativistic speeds, the confined matter produces high frequency gravitational waves that destructively interfere with those of external and internal masses. Such that the passengers have no inertia and the entire craft is unaffected by the gravitational waves of the surrounding universe.

[Anonymous No.10736004]

>>10735997
who makes them?

[Anonymous No.10736006]

As for spoopy ghosties and angry native american spirits, I have no fucking clue. I have never given it a single moment of consideration.

[Anonymous No.10736010]

>>10736004
People with enough money to have everyone on all of 4chan killed overnight and make it look like an accident.

[Anonymous No.10736015]

>>10736010
so is the science behind it just covered up and silenced?

[Anonymous No.10736023]

>>10736015
No it's in the public domain, it's actually way cheaper to produce mountains of disinformation and red herrings so that the truth becomes a needle in a haystack. These aircraft can easily be converted into a relativistic kill missile, so there is an obvious reason why they would suppress this knowledge at any cost.

[Anonymous No.10736028]

>>10735684
Specifically what phenomena do you want explained? And dont say "ghosts" or something general, name a specific observation made at a specific time and location that needs to be explained.

[Anonymous No.10736042]

>>10735997
removing gravity doesn't remove inertia. Do you even physics?

[Anonymous No.10736049]

>>10735997
None of that makes any fucking sense though

[Anonymous No.10736066]

I have no place talking about ghosts and shit, but UFOs? I can talk about UFOs.

Remember, UFO is just an acronym for Unidentified Flying Object. If you are a human being and you are in a machine that is flying and isn't a hot air balloon, there is a damn good chance you've got a radio and are in constant available contact with several different major frequencies and stations that help determine your location, the incoming weather, and your clearance to fly in certain areas.

If you end up in a situation that requires you to figure out if you have clearance, you're contacted via radio and are asked to identify yourself on various common channels when you're in actual sight (not radar) of whoever's requesting identification. For all intents and purposes, you're unidentified until you answer.

This unidentification still applies when you're picked up on a radar but not contacted via radio. One of my buddies from the Air Guard loves flying along the East Coast. We're in Rhode Island, so you can go pretty far along the coast without any trouble. He usually flies from Quonset to over Long Island and then loops back.

Unfortunately, one day he made an error in judgement and decided to fly on a day when Obama was doing some sort of event on Long Island. Can't remember what, some speech. Generally speaking, if the president is in an area, it's a no-fly zone, Class "Fuck Off" airspace. Just like the Pentagon, the White House, and any Disney amusement park. Since he was entering that zone and he was picked up on a radar, he immediately became a problem. He was a flying object they could not immediately identify. For all intents and purposes, his goofy lil' prop plane was an Unidentified Flying Object. Suffice to say, he got a surprise when two fighter jets flew up on either side of him, prepared to fight E.T., and disappointedly escorted him back to OQU.

So to make a long anecdote short: Anything can be a UFO. Doesn't mean it's aliens, just means it can't be identified.

[Anonymous No.10736074]

>>10736066
Amusing anecdote but obviously trivial.

[Anonymous No.10736076]

>>10736042
>>10736049
They took the blue pill

[Anonymous No.10736083]

>>10736074
The anecdote was more just to make an example of HOW something could be called a UFO. Anything flying that you can't identify is a UFO. If you hear "UFO" on a military radio, don't get excited because it'll get identified or leave relevant airspace before its identification would be any more necessary. You wait for the "Holy shit"s first. Hell, that's happened so much I wanted to petition to have a distinction from UFO for specifically strange and alien aircraft to be called "Holy shit"s because without fail, the first time someone sees one, they say those two magic words.

[Anonymous No.10736089]

>>10735932
I said aliens to be specific. Learn how to read and then kill yourself you stupid fuck.

[Anonymous No.10736090]

>>10736083
Juicy. Why didn't you then, m8?

[Anonymous No.10736093]

>>10735956
Because the military doesn't keep any secrets right?

[Anonymous No.10736106]

>>10736090
Eh, I had no pull and it's not that common an occurrence. It was common enough that I noticed the trend of people always saying "Holy shit" upon seeing the real weird shit but there was no way to really talk about it without getting glorified don't-ask-don't-tell treatment. And I wouldn't overthink why they're even around, none of those "Holy shit"s ever did anything more than just fly around like they have no idea where they are and fuck off. I just assumed they got lost or something and turned left at Space Albuquerque.

[Anonymous No.10736112]

>>10736106
I noticed that their behavior does seem pretty erratic but I never considered the possibility that they are literally just lost before proceeding to fuck off. Since you know, they're in aircraft that defy all logic and execute 100 g turns like licking butter off a knife. I would prefer to think that they are actually doing shit, even if that's just fucking around having fun screwing with people.

[Anonymous No.10736115]

>>10736112
do you think abductions happen?

[Anonymous No.10736119]

>>10736112
Well, think about it like this. Say you're in a car with your smartphone and maybe an onboard GPS and you get lost in the Mojave or something after you take a wrong left. You're sitting in, carrying, and are adjacent to the culminations of thousands of years of research in mathematics, engineering, and a lot of other shit. If I asked you to explain every little detail of how all three of those things worked in a proper expert level, you'd probably not be able to do so, or at least the average layman in the same context wouldn't. Their phone and their GPS might tell 'em where their position is but they still don't really know where the fuck they are or how to go elsewhere.

Whoever's in those "Holy shit"s probably have a similar situation. They end up here, try to catch their bearings, realize they're in the wrong spot, and fuck off to wherever they're going. Or they're glorified teenagers doing donuts in someone else's parking lot.

[Anonymous No.10736129]

>>10736119
>Or they're glorified teenagers doing donuts in someone else's parking lot.
Weirdly enough these are my thoughts exactly. From an evolutionary biology standpoint, the environment probably only selects for intelligence up until a threshold where additional intelligence is not necessary for survival and reproduction, like how the dumbest human beings still survive to reproduce today, without fail. Most gun owners have never even passed a calculus class, and have absolutely no clue how to manufacture their firearm. In that sense, you can be sure that somewhere in the vast nothingness of space, there are retarded niggers with laser rifles and flying saucers. Clown world is actually clown universe.

[Anonymous No.10736149]

>>10736115
Sure, my dad was abducted. The Grey aliens are actually slavers, they literally made him do three years of hard labor. When they brought him back, he had just enough money to ride the bus home. Poor old fucker. My dad is the smartest person I have ever known, and he is on the level. He was in Phoenix at the time of the "Phoenix Lights" and he saw that shit. Well he had to drive home to California that evening and he was more or less abducted on a long stretch of highway. He described the craft as between 8 and 12 stories tall, perfectly equilateral and triangular. It was a big dark silent inverted pyramid slowly rotating about central axis and leaning slightly in the direction of travel. It hovered maybe ten feet off the ground and had quite a few bright searchlights. He pulled over to look at it, and so it goes.
Fucking space niggers promised him hella millions.

[Anonymous No.10736157]

>>10736076
not an argument

[Anonymous No.10736176]

>>10735654
Everything but UFOs is fake. Those are legit just aliens

[Anonymous No.10736180]

>>10736157
Excuse me faggot, this >>10736042
is a strawman.
So maybe you would like to learn to read before posting here.

[Anonymous No.10736181]

I'm content not to worry about the things I have no hope of understanding.

[Anonymous No.10736183]

>>10736180
No it isnt a strawman. >>10735997 says that "gravotational waves destructively interfere with those of the masses such that they have no interia." That statement is complete nonsense. That isn't of gravity or inertia works.

[Anonymous No.10736185]

>>10736129
>muh guns
fuck off with your astro-turfing horseshit elsewhere, moron

[Anonymous No.10736187]

>>10735654
>nig
>fag
>nig
>fag
>nig
>fag
>dude aliens my dad saw them
>>/x/
You have to go back and never return to a board with any semblance of credibility of subject ever again.

[Anonymous No.10736189]

>>10736187
found the spook

[Anonymous No.10736190]

>>10736187
Whoops
>>>/x/
Enjoy your schizo board

[Anonymous No.10736191]

>>10736189
>spook
People like you ought to stay in their creepypasta board

[Anonymous No.10736192]

>>10736191
spook is a euphemism for blacks

[Anonymous No.10736199]

>>10736183
>>10736183
>"gravotational waves destructively interfere with those of the masses such that they have no interia."
This is not a direct quote, it is paraphrasing. By use of quotation marks with paraphrasing, you have technically repeated your use of the strawman fallacy. It's also a misrepresentation of my argument, so there's no need to invoke a technicality, and basically you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.10736201]

>>10736192
It's also a euphemism for glow nigger.

[Anonymous No.10736202]

1. Natural phenomena that just appears spooky because of timing and area.
2. Misremembering, and perceptual fuckery.
3. Mental disease/drugs
4. Lying

[Anonymous No.10736204]

>>10736199
Yeah, i fixed your fucking grammar. Paraphrasing is not straw-manning, ignorant slime. My point stands.

[Anonymous No.10736208]

>>10736202
>haha lying druggie goyim

[Anonymous No.10736212]

>>10736204
>>10736042
Jesus Christ dude you misspelled gravitational
is English your second language like wtf?
Your point is "Nuh Uh" and you should go back to r/science and pbs spacetime.

[Anonymous No.10736213]

Honest to god the main reason I don't beleive in all those UFO shits is that the aliens look like grey alien nonsense.
Aliens would not look so similar to humans. People need to learn some evolutionary theory and get an imagination before they make their nonsense crack statement.

[Anonymous No.10736216]

>>10736213
maybe we share a genetic origin or maybe we're their ant farm.
Perhaps the humanoid shape is just best suited for terrestrial intelligence.

[Anonymous No.10736217]

>>10736213
What is convergence
What is optimization of object manipulation

[Anonymous No.10736229]

>>10736217
I'm sorry to say but convergant evolution does not in any way justify the exact replication of human features with simple proportion changes as the grey alien have. Humans are the way we are due to a very specific set of traits our ancestors had and the environment we lived in. Each step in our history greatly influenced the form we adapted into and even a single change would have significant effects down the road. The fact that an octopus and a human evolved form the same ancestor but in different environments over time should be proof enough of this. Our anatomy isn't even the best for what we do - so much of us is retrofitted from our old life as an arboreal species. Theres a reason our spine is wacked a lot, and why giving birth is a significant risk for us but not other primates.

[Anonymous No.10736233]

>>10736229
>implying grayys still give birth to live young

[Anonymous No.10736238]

>>10736233
Thanks for entirely missing the point anon. I meant that humans are not the most optimized being and look like we do because of a very specific evolutionary history that aliens on another planet wouldn't have.

[Anonymous No.10736246]

>>10736238
what if they made us in their image?

[Anonymous No.10736249]

>>10736229
Who are you trying to fool, buddy? I mean it, who the fuck are you trying to fool? Convergent evolution means one thing. Separate species evolving in isolation from one another in similar environments will evolve similar traits. It may be a lot to take in all at once, but the environment is the only factor. The organism is itself a part of the environment, so genetics plus environment is merely semantics. The development of humanoids on Earth like planets is not unlikely by any means, it is absolutely certain.

[Anonymous No.10736257]

>>10736089
You proceeded to say that any unidentified flying object is a hoax or government vehicle.

Learn 2 think, asshat.

[Anonymous No.10736258]

>>10736246
That makes no sense as well, given our pretty clear collection of fossil species showing a clear progression from humans through our ancestry over tens of millions of years. So either the fossil record is falsified/a conspiracy or the aliens 'influenced' our evolution to direct us over the course of history to look like them in a way that is indistinguishable from regular evolution - which while technically impossible to disprove is a ridiculous theory.

>>10736249
I dont think you understand how strong convergent evolution is. One great example is sharks and ichthyosaurs. While undeniably they have similar basic bauplans thanks to the dynamics of water resistance resulting in a similar shape being similar, even though they fulfil similar niches in their environments (oceanic macro-hunters) there are a large, large number of difference between their external and internal anatomy thanks to the history of their species ancestry.
And that example is with species that developed into the same ecological niche. We also have to beleive that only species in our niche (which would have somewhat similar traits, though as I mentioned earlier nothing close to exact similarities) would develop the ability to form spacefaring civilisations. Looking to earth we can see that intelligence is not only sown in similar species, but in ones with totally different niches in the environment. Elephants and Corvids are great examples of species that display complex behaviours that while not the same as us by any stretch of the imagination do show the potential for non-human niches to grow into intelligent beings. The fact that elephant and human ancestors both evolved in Africa shows that even in the same environment different niches can develop smart beings.
part 1/2

[Anonymous No.10736261]

>>10736246
>>10736246
What if we made them in our image but then we forgot about it?

[Anonymous No.10736269]

>>10736249

Not only all that, but we also have to remember that one of the main precepts of evolutionary theory is mutation - which is highly random. A number of very specific genes required for humans to reach the level of intelligence we humans use to create civilizations - rather than just being hairless monkeys that can make good tools. It was up to chance that those genes developed, and up to more chance that random unrelated events such as a natural disaster didn't wipe out the carrier of that gene before it propagates. Now consider the fact that this same chance of a mutation occurring and then spreading had to happen for every single gene every single generation. Also consider the fact that it relies on every other species having that chance happen, since if another species in the environment had a different gene they would then evolve differently - which would result in the environment our ancestors evolved into being different and thus causing us to be put under slightly different evolutionary pressures - which can have big impacts down the road.

Finally, your idea relies on the aliens evolving in the same environment as earth. As I explained above the chance of any mutation happening is slim - and thus I would say it is effectively (not literally impossible, but the chance is so small it might as well be) impossible for the other fauna and flora around the species that would evolve into the grey aliens to be the same - thus the environment (which is comprised of abiotic and biotic factors such as other organisms) would be different. This results in different evolutionary pressures. Additionally, the planet itself will certainly be slightly different to earth in size, density, chemical makeup, and things such as star orbits or rotation or even lunar bodies. All of this also means the abiotic factors of the environment will certainly be different - causing different environments and very different evolutionary pressures on the species.

Part 2/2

[Anonymous No.10736292]

>>10736257
Learn context you dense idiot. Seriously just arguing semantics at this point. I specifically said aliens. If you're too thick skulled to understand what I was talking about that's not my problem. I obviously know what ufo stands for which is why I tried to be specific, yet still a fucking retard misses it. Kill. Your. Self.

[Anonymous No.10736294]

>>10736269
Consider the following.
1. Thermodynamic laws govern the possible states of any physical system.
2. The chance that any mutation will occur is non-zero.
3. The mutations which can be passed on are limited. (most kill, prevent reproduction or lower the probability of reproduction)
4. Similar environments will select for similar mutations.

[Anonymous No.10736302]

>>10736294
1. Yep totally, dont disagree on that.
2. Yep
3. While technically correct I feel as if you're vastly underestimating the number of possible mutations, since the order of mutations will also have an impact as well as the timing of those mutations. Remember that an octopus and a human started from the same ancestor.
4. As I stated before, they will not have the exact same environments both in terms of having different biota and different abiotic factors. Plus different solutions will work for the same environments, not that it matters since the environments will be the same.

[Anonymous No.10736304]

>>10736302
*will not, dammit

[Anonymous No.10736322]

>>10736302
So your entire argument, that convergent evolution does not explain the phenotype purported of grey aliens, rests on the assumption that the environments are are dissimilar, which is begging the question/ circular reasoning.

[Anonymous No.10736336]

>>10736322
No, its based on the fact that in order to reach the same conclusion (or basically the same, since grey aliens are so similar that they might as well be related hominids) then the preceding events must be effectively the same - which is so unlikely as to be effectively impossible based on a number of factors one of which is that in order for the same abiotic factors to occur then the planet and sun and moon must be the same as earth. Even stuff like different tectonic plates would results in a very different geography and thus very different environmental pressures on an ancestral of species.

[Anonymous No.10736342]

>>10736322
>>10736336
Remember that not only do the same mutations need to occur, they need to occur at the same time relative to other mutations both in the species itself and in every other species around it - otherwise the environment would be different, which means every event after it is more and more different over time. Plus all abiotic factors would have to be the same. Even something as simple as having a small moon would result in differing tides - creating different coastline shapes as well as currents which would influence the direction of life differently to earth.

[Anonymous No.10736352]

>>10736342
Why do you think that grey aliens are so wildly similar to humans? Just because they are bipedal, have forward facing eyes and thumbs with no tail? Brooooooooo.

[Anonymous No.10736362]

>>10736342
I'm telling you it is circular reasoning. You are describing divergent evolution. They evolve different traits in different environments, that's divergence. Like how humans and octopuses are descended from a common ancestor.
If there is a niche, an organism will fill it. If that niche requires thumbs, forward facing eyes, bipedal movement and no tail, guess what!

[Anonymous No.10736376]

Imagine believing in aliens and ghosts lmao. Peak ignorance.

[Anonymous No.10736384]

>>10735654
Lmao bro I saw a ghostly poltergeist ufo yesterday swear

[Anonymous No.10736385]

>>10736352
Please tell me which of the two things looks the most similar to a human.

>>10736362
Sophont is not a niche in and of itself, intelligence is not a niche it is an adaptation. Not all creature in our niche (pack hunter on the plains of africa) evolved advanced intelligence and creatures not in our niche in our environment (Elephants) did evolve intelligence. Convergent evolution also doesn't mean literally the same thing - especially since they have no common ancestry that would result in the two species having the same basic materials to form characteristics. You are the one using circular reasoning since you are saying that since humans evolved intelligence that all creatures evolving intelligence must be the same niche and ancestry as humans.

[Anonymous No.10736395]

>>10736385
Have you considered the possibility that “greys” are genetically engineered sock puppets or drones of some sort meant to be more amenable to humans, perhaps even created from their DNA?

I don’t believe in greys myself. I believe in aliens, ones that are here, but my own suspicion is that they abandoned biological bodies thousands of years ago.

[Anonymous No.10736400]

>>10736395
Fair enough, though thats an entirely different thing - I still dont believe that but I find that much more logically plausible.

[Anonymous No.10736439]

>>10736400
I came to that conclusion because the G-forces the vehicles observed by the crew of the USS Nimitz and the USS Theodore Roosevelt would be subjected to by their acceleration would be so extreme that any biological crewmember would be turned into catfood. That, and not having a body made of meat immensely simplifies the logistics of interstellar travel. No senescence, need of a pressurized crew compartment, breathable gas like oxygen, water, or food. Just electrical energy which can be drawn from the same power plant the ship uses and occasional parts replacement, which requires minerals you can find on most asteroids and barren rocky worlds.

[Anonymous No.10736440]

Been a bit so I'm posting this point I was saving for the next response. Both of these species fulfil the same niche within their ecosystem (and while this specific eagle doesn't live in the same abiotic environment, there are other species of bird that do and the point still works with them. But because they have ancestors that are different they look totally different past very surface similarities (wings, long body, mouth and sensory organs at front etc). If convergent evolution still showed such a difference in anatomy when creating species that diverged a few hundred millions years ago despite the name niche, then creatures from totally different planets with no shared similarities would be very very different.

[Anonymous No.10736443]

>>10736440
That's meganeura specifically btw, not a regular dragonfly. So this was a megafaunal predator.

[Anonymous No.10736449]

>>10736439
see below
>>10735997

[Anonymous No.10736452]

>>10736385
Come on bud if you have had cell biology you would know that life on Earth originated from inorganic matter brewing in hot water. There was no life in the entire universe 13.7 billion years ago and you know it.

[Anonymous No.10736454]

>>10736443
Meganeura was a griffinfly

[Anonymous No.10736455]

>>10736452
Yeah, I know, thats why I said "since thats where the stuff that became the two seperate planets first came from" rather than "since thats where the ancestors first diverged". I figured it was clear I meant the planet materials since I specifically mentioned the planet's materials.

[Anonymous No.10736456]

>>10736385
>You are the one using circular reasoning since you are saying that since humans evolved intelligence that all creatures evolving intelligence must be the same niche and ancestry as humans.
Strawman. I said there if is a niche for an organism with thumbs, forward facing eyes, bipedal movement and no tail. You're the only one talking about intelligence at all.

[Anonymous No.10736457]

>>10736456
This discussion is about grey aliens, were you under the impression that grey aliens were ont intelligent?

[Anonymous No.10736459]

>>10736456
lol *if there is

[Anonymous No.10736460]

>>10736454
my mistake, griffinflies are relatives of dragonflies though. Regardless my point still stands.

[Anonymous No.10736461]

>>10736457
It's still a strawman. That grey aliens are intelligent, I should think is to be understood.

[Anonymous No.10736462]

>>10736456
Don’t see why the tail matters. A body shaped vaguely like that of a dromeosaur would work just fine for constructing civilizations.

[Anonymous No.10736471]

>>10736456
Niches are not a collection of traits. This is a common misunderstanding so I totally get it; this has probably caused some confusion during this discussion.
A niche is just the role an organism takes within its environment and how it interacts with other living things. But niches do not prescribe specific traits. For example, as with my eagle explination both Eagles and Meganisoptera fulfil the same niche (large flighted macropredators) - but they have largely different traits to perform them (ie, wings in eagles are totally different to Meganisoptera wings).
"Thumbs, forward facing eyes, bipedal movement and no tail" is not a niche, it is a collection of traits that one species, humans, has adapted towards as a means to fulfil its role in the environment. Other species can evolve different traits for the same niche, and other organisms can evolved the same traits for different niches (Kangaroos are also bipedal but evolved it in a different manner for different reasons).
>>10736462 is also correct in the fact that the ability to develop civilisations is physically possible with a wide number of traits. For example, birds are capable of manipulating tools using their feet and mouths. And while not to the same level of dexterity some cephalopods are capable of using tentacles to manipulate objects. Due to the wide number of traits possible for developing civilisations and the wide number of niches possible for those traits to develop in - there are many many many more ways for an intelligent alien to evolve than just human.
Also, as a reminder of what this discussion was about - it was about me doubting people's claims of encountering intelligent UFOs because their description of them as almost human Grey Aliens is too similar to humans to have plausibly evolved on a different planet that has different abiotic and biotic factors causing different evolutionary pressures over hundreds of millions of years.

[Anonymous No.10736472]

>>10736440
How do those statements follow from one another? First of all,
>Both of these species fulfil the same niche within their ecosystem
Literally false and impossible.
> If convergent evolution still showed such a difference in anatomy when creating species that diverged a few hundred millions years ago despite the name niche, then creatures from totally different planets with no shared similarities would be very very different.
Why do you keep saying that species living in entirely different environments with completely different physiology evolved in a convergent fashion? You are literally describing divergence and calling it convergence. What the fuck is wrong with your brain?

[Anonymous No.10736481]

>>10736471
>it is a collection of traits that one species, humans, has adapted towards as a means to fulfil its role in the environment.
Yeah it's called A NICHE you dense fuck.
>Niches are not a collection of traits. This is a common misunderstanding so I totally get it
You strawman spewing faggot I am starting to get real sick of your shit. Learn to fucking read. >>10736362
>If there is a niche, an organism will fill it. If that niche requires thumbs, forward facing eyes, bipedal movement and no tail, guess what!

[Anonymous No.10736482]

>>10736472
> Literally false and impossible.
They existed at different times fulfilling the same role (niche) in their respective environments. You're misatributing the concept of Gauses Principle - that only covers species in the same time and location, not the concept of species fulfilling the same niche in different times.

> Why do you keep saying that species living in entirely different environments with completely different physiology evolved in a convergent fashion? You are literally describing divergence and calling it convergence. What the fuck is wrong with your brain?
Divergence is the process of speciation, in which an ancestral form develops into two or more distinct forms as a response to populations being put under different conditions. Convergence is the process of two unrelated organisms developing similar traits as a response to them being in the same environment. For example, Icthyosaurs and Dolphins diverged from an ancestral, land dwelling primitive organism (ie, reptiles and mammals). But then the two unrelated organism, at different times, developed the same basic torpedo body shape since they evolved into the same niche. This is a demonstration of convergent evolution. Meganisoptera and Eagles developed similar solutions to the problem of flight - namely powered wings, and a long thin body, as well as advanced sight. This is another example of covergent evolution.

[Anonymous No.10736484]

>>10736472
The marsupial mole has extremely similar anatomy to the placental moles because the selection pressures of such a lifestyle create a certain body plan with ideal fitness. Same for icthyosaurs and cetaceans redeveloping the bodyplan of their bony fish ancestors.

[Anonymous No.10736490]

>>10736481
> Yeah it's called A NICHE you dense fuck.
No, a niche is a role an organism plays in its environment. This role it fills does not prescribe traits an organism has. Continuing with my Eagle/Meganisoptera point - they both are in the same niche as they play a similar role in the environment but they do not both have the exact same traits as niches do not prescribe traits. Eagles have beaks as that species utilizes them as a solution to the problem of eating food, while the Meganisoptera developed different traits despite being in the same niche.
A niche is NOT a list of traits an organism has, and not all organisms that have the same niche will have the same traits.
>If there is a niche, an organism will fill it. If that niche requires thumbs, forward facing eyes, bipedal movement and no tail, guess what!
The niche humans fulfil in their environment (long distance pursuit pack predators of megafauna that also gather plants) does not prescribe the exact list of traits humans have. Additionally, an organism that has one or two traits a human has (ie, intelligence) does not mean they have the same niche humans do - nor does it mean they will evolve all the other traits humans do. This can be observed by looking at gorillas - which have a large number of the same traits humans do but do not exist in the same niche as they are larger herbivores.

[Anonymous No.10736497]

>>10736482
I can't wrap my mind around the fact that you think we are the only humanoids in the entire universe. And you say that you're the imaginative one. Can you not see that is a little bit absurd? Considering the fact that the advantage of flight has evolved on Earth literally hundreds, if not thousands of times, and that you recognize that as convergence, how do you still doubt the possibility that humanoid aliens are out there?

[Anonymous No.10736499]

Lol
https://pastebin.com/TwuqcD3z

[Anonymous No.10736507]

>>10736497
grey alien =/= humanoid
I am talking about grey aliens specifically. The concept of an alien which ends up looking more like us than other primates do. Also, since the trait I am revolving around is intelligence - I am only talking about species which are intelligent enough to develop civilization. We are likely not the only humanoids in the entire universe, but I find it much more likely that intelligent life would take on one of the other myriad possible forms life can take than for it to just look almost the same as a human. As an example, two other species commonly known for being highly intelligent are Corvids and Elephants. If even on earth there are very smart species that look totally unlike humans I think it much much more likely that whatever intelligent life we find out there will look different to humans.
Humanoid traits are not one big package, you can have a number of human traits and not be a civilization. Nothing other humans have requires advanced intellect. Heck until 70000 years ago we lacked the genes needed to be a proper civ building species despite looking anatomically exactly like modern humans (anatomically modern humans evolved 200000 years ago, behavioural modern humans arrive 70000, the development of advanced and more modern cultural behaviour was 40000).

[Anonymous No.10736518]

>>10736507
I think that CGI depiction of a grey alien is pretty absurd and unlikely to be reflective of an organism that evolved independently of modern man. I will give you that. With that said, grey aliens are fucking scary and not at all the remarkably human organisms that you pictured them as. Your first thought upon seeing one is absolutely not, "Oh how remarkably human."

[Anonymous No.10736520]

>>10736518
I’d still fuck one if there’s a viable sphincter or phallus somewhere.

[Anonymous No.10736522]

Still, if any organism does develop bipedal movement, thumbs, forward facing eyes, and okay intelligence too, they are likely to converge towards the bodyplan of narrow hips, shoulders over the hips and feet, arms fit to proportion, and so on. It's thermodynamics m8.

[Anonymous No.10736526]

10735654 : pseudoscience thread detected\n
>not science
It's pseudoscience faggot, go back to /x/ schizo ah ah ah

[Anonymous No.10736525]

>>10736522
>Narrow hips

Absolutely disgusting. What kind of skeleton women are you banging?

[Anonymous No.10736531]

>>10736526
Pseudoscience is subject matter that taught as if it is science, or with the impression that it is science, even though it isn't science. For example, economics or sociology. B-b-but black people are only poor and uneducated because of socioeconomic factors! Their behavior as a group of organisms has nothing to do with biology!

[Anonymous No.10736548]

There should be a mandatory test to get into topic-specific boards.
Proof of ownership of a gun for /k/, literature test for /lit/, math test or proof of BSc for /sci/, N3 at least for /jp/,..

The fact that /x/, the objectively most retarded board (sub-90 tested IQ), can come to /sci/ and pretend to know what they're talking about is a problem.

[Anonymous No.10736549]

>>10736548
lmao shut the fuck up you fucking nerd.
Have sex

[Anonymous No.10736556]

>>10736531
Speculative science is not pseudoscience.

[Anonymous No.10736563]

>>10736548
lol are you autistic or just a child?