/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10359165]

If life should be common among the universe, why haven’t we found Aliens yet? Please don’t give me your Fermi paradox brainlet arguments, there’s no way in hell we wouldn’t have already detected a alien empire consisting of billions of worlds.

[Anonymous No.10359172]

>>10359165
We barely can see any rocky planet outside of our solar system but look at Mr genius over here who just knows we would definetely be able to detect alien empires.

[Anonymous No.10359178]

>>10359165
Probable troll, but yeah, space is fucking HUGE. And there are some massive limitations. Sage to be sure

[Anonymous No.10359186]

>>10359172
But we can detect radio waves you dumb brainlet, their technology would light up a whole region of space.

[Anonymous No.10359196]

>>10359186
Unless they are targeting high-energy radio signals directly at us their radio signals are undetectable for us after a few light years Mr genius

[Anonymous No.10359205]

>>10359165
We are alone. There's probably no microbial life anywhere in universe let alone intelligent.

[Anonymous No.10359207]

>>10359196
Sure for a single planet in a single solar system but not for a alien civilization who colonized a whole galaxy.

[Anonymous No.10359210]

>>10359207
Mr genius, please tell me how you want to detect random radio waves from an inhabited planet if you can't even detect light waves from that planet.

[Anonymous No.10359218]

>>10359210
Talk about a strawman, imagine billions of colonized planets in between these planets would be billions megastructures.

[Anonymous No.10359236]

>>10359218
Like what? What megastructure would be bigger and easier to detect than the planets themselves?

[Anonymous No.10359250]

>>10359165

With out tech today we could barely detect a civilization on our level if it was 10 light years away.

Space is gigantic. We don't know if advanced civilizations are easier to detect, superstructures are a sci-fi meme. Colonizing thousands of planets is pointless.

Not to mention we already detected many signals we can't explain we just don't have proof those are aliens.

[Anonymous No.10359256]

>>10359207
Why colonize an entire galaxy? For what reason?

Advanced cultures on Earth already show that population growth stops at some point. And a single solar system could house trillions of people.

[Anonymous No.10359279]

>>10359165
>Please don’t give me your Fermi paradox brainlet arguments
You have to be naive brainlet to assume that interstellar empires are a thing.
a) Magic doesnt exist
b) Energy levels required for interstellar travel are essentially impossible to achieve, which should be obvious if you have basic understanding of mathematics and physics.
c) no materials or systems last for thousands of years of space travel

[Anonymous No.10359290]

>>10359165
signal attenuation
lots of aliens, lots of signals, but almost none of them at power levels high enough to blast all the way here and get picked up by us using current tech

[Anonymous No.10359306]

We are the only technological species in the observable universe.

Basically stars existing in the sky is proof that there isn't an advanced technological species in the (observable) universe yet.

Why? Because entropy. This means that all matter and energy in the universe is finite and thus letting stars burn is a waste of energy that the technological civilization is going to have to use in the future.

Letting stars burn right now is the equivalent of chipping away millions of years of your species's lifespan because that energy will be wasted towards entropy.

This means that if there was a technological species with the capabilities to stop it there wouldn't be any stars.

Hell even we humans will most likely start to encapsulate every star in the milky way galaxy into a dyson shroud within a 1000 years time. Either that or "store" the material of the stars and stop them from burning until needed in the future.

Another thing people need to understand is that the universe is INCOMPREHENSIBLY YOUNG. The universe is only 13.8 billion years old. The last stars will die 10^20 years from now.

We came into existence during the absolute start of the universe. The universe is only at the 0.0000000138% from the Start to the last star dying. In all of this time life can come into existence yet we came freakily close to existence to the absolute start of the universe.

Just for some more emphasis if a human baby that would become 100 years old and you take 0.0000000138% of its lifespan the baby would only be 45.52 SECONDS old. Then the 45.52 second old baby would ask "Why is there no signs of any brothers I've been in existence for 45.52 seconds already for fucks sake"

TL;DR: We are most likely the first technological species in the universe as evidenced by stars still being visible in the sky as well as our insanely early start in the stellar era of the universe.

[Anonymous No.10359322]

>Can’t find that neptune sized ninth planet in our solar system
>Only has two probes in interstellar space
>Has a model for physics that requires grasping for straws to function
>Said physics model is heavily debated
>Went to space less than a century ago
>Found our first exo-planet less than 30 years ago
>Can’t see car sized asteroids in within our moon’s distance until it already passed us
>Has a dogmatic system of mainstream science that completely ignores hard questions just for the sake of “muh athiesm”
>landed probes on fewer than 20 bodies
>Found an interstellar object pass through our solar system that is accelerating and irregularly shaped
I don’t think we deserve to initiate contact with extra terrestrial life, not like we could find them anyway

[Anonymous No.10359329]

>>10359218
The urge to spread and grow populations is a primal concept that many extraterrestrials could’ve acknowledged to be harmful and stupid

[Anonymous No.10359336]

JWST will increase our ability to detect life up to 10,000 light years away. If the JWST doesn't detect even a single planet with Oxygen in the atmosphere it means we are alone. So the question if we are alone or not will be answered within 5 years. (at least if we find no oxygen in the atmospheres of the exoplanets up to 10,000 light years away)

>>10359250

[Anonymous No.10359342]

>>10359322
>Found our first exo-planet less than 30 years ago
Not even. I'm 25 and when I was a little kid my teacher would actively tell us that there is no proof there are any planets besides our 9 and that we are special because we have planets. The exoplanets were retroactively confirmed. The first "real" confirmation was in 1998 and only scientifically recognized in 2003

[Anonymous No.10359415]

>>10359336
I highly doubt JWST can actually do that within 10.000 light years. 100, max. But we will probably already find a planet with life withing 100 light years.

[Anonymous No.10359431]

>>10359322

This holy shit. We are still cavemen.

[Anonymous No.10359436]

>>10359218
Megastructures are complete bullshit.

Moon sized cylinder station could held 10 billion population easily. Why the fuck would anyone need megastructures?

Orbital rings maybe make sense but anything bigger is pure bullshit. If entire Earth was on the social and technological level of USA or EU population would be going down not up and this is without AI and humanoid robots.

[Anonymous No.10359440]

>>10359322
It's fucking hilarious. Half of our modern knowledge about space came from Hubble.

[Anonymous No.10359499]

what if aliens are already here but we can't observe them? there might be something right next to you while you sleep, just staring at you.

[Anonymous No.10359567]

>>10359499

[Anonymous No.10361182]

>>10359165
because we don't have the technology for deep scanning, hell we cant take photos of exoplanets and their composition is little more than conjectures and theory.

Also the universe is infinitely big. While we are here shitposting people in another galaxy really far from us might be playing Halo in real life

[Anonymous No.10361185]

>>10359165
Can we stop having this thread? This has been explained from many different angles before. Learn to use the fucking archive, you dumbcunts.

[Anonymous No.10361194]

>>10359186
Lmao, you're too dumb to be talking about this.
Over such distances, attenuation would make it very hard to detect such radio waves.
As for why we haven't gotten a reply? We've only been broadcasting radio waves into the universe for about 100 years, so they couldn't only travelled 100 light years. That's why.
Space is really fucking massive.

[Anonymous No.10361252]

Our instruments are just developing, and it's a needle in a haystack so it takes time. I'd expect that if there are observable signs of alien life, we will find them within 100 years.

That being said, I find it very unlikely there is higher intelligence elsewhere in the universe. We are truly special snowflakes.

[Anonymous No.10361331]

>>10359306
>This means that if there was a technological species with the capabilities to stop it there wouldn't be any stars.
What do you think supervoids are? Shit takes time.

[Anonymous No.10361343]

>>10359336
>Oxygen in the atmosphere
Nigga oxygen was toxic to life for over a billion years.

[Anonymous No.10361361]

>>10361343
almost all the oxygen on the planet was created by life in the first place monkeymouth

[Anonymous No.10361372]

>>10359165
>If life should be common among the universe
it is

>why haven’t we found Aliens yet?
uniformly distributed

[Anonymous No.10361375]

>>10361361
Yeah, and it killed 99.9% of everything.
>hurr durr space life must use oxygen even though we know for a fact it doesn't have to

[Anonymous No.10361433]

As knowledge increases so too does the level of knowledge the common person in a society possesses. Eventually a species gets so advanced every member of it possesses the knowledge to wipe out the entirety of the species.

[Anonymous No.10361437]

>>10361361
Not true. The oxygen was rendered into FREE oxygen by life by breaking up CO2

[Anonymous No.10362130]

>>10359336
>it means we are alone

it would mean that the JWST wasn't able to detect a single planet with oxygen in the atmosphere inside the red circle

that's assuming it checked every single star (which I somehow highly doubt will happen, since there are about 3 to 4 billion stars in that circle)

[Prof Sai No.10362132]

>>10359165

There is no point in trying to travel to other planets. Trans-dimensional travel is far easier and leads to worlds that are habitable now.

[Anonymous No.10362133]

>>10361433

yeah, because every single one of us could build technology from let's say end of the 19th century from scratch, right?

be right back, just gonna build a radio real quick

[Anonymous No.10362160]

>>10359306
Good post. With their 4 billions years headstart, if there were intelligent life anywhere near our galaxy, life on Earth wouldn’t exist. If there were intelligent life anywhere else, we would detect infrared light from seemingly empty spaces in the universe

[Anonymous No.10362167]

>>10359306
>entropy
Stopped reading

[Anonymous No.10362172]

>>10362130
>pick related
which circle?

[Anonymous No.10362215]

>>10361331
we actively looked at supervoids for telltale infrared radiation that would have been there if stars were obscured by dyson spheres. We concluded that there are no dyson spheres in those places because there was none of this infrared radiation that should have been there due to the inability of systems to be 100% efficient.

[Anonymous No.10362267]

>>10359336
>JWST will increase our ability to detect life up to 10,000 light years away

This is bullshit. We are able to detect like 0.1% of earth size planets.

[Anonymous No.10362280]

>>10359306
>muh dyson
*tips*

[Anonymous No.10362281]

>>10362160
This picture is idiotic. Why would any civilization want to spread like this? For what reason?

Don't even start about biological urges or our nature to spread, this is already almost dead in modern culture. Add virtual reality, AI, robots, drones and other shit and humanity will struggle to keep population levels not even mentioning increasing them.

The only reason why Earth's population still grows is becasue of 3rd world shitholes.

[Anonymous No.10362363]

>>10359499
I'm completely okay with this. Sure beats sleeping alone.

[Anonymous No.10362376]

>>10359165
An answer to this question, so you can stop making these threads: >>10362290

[Anonymous No.10362671]

>>10359165
There are roughly 20 quadrillion (20 followed by 21 zeroes) known stars. Stars can have multiple planets and planets can have multiple moons, so the number of worlds is likely many times higher than 20 quadrillion. Only 1 planet in 20 quadrillion having life is basically impossible. We can't even detect light waves (the fastest known thing to exist) from other planets that well so detecting anything else from aliens would be impossible. An alien empire consisting of "billions of worlds" is far-fetched. It'd be very hard to colonize anything outside your own solar system unless you invented FTL travel, which is physically impossible as we understand it. There could also be unintelligent aliens that have no technology to detect. In our own solar system this might actually be the case, because there might be microbes on places like Europa.

[Anonymous No.10362691]

>>10362671
There are probably many single system races in our galaxy alone and few multi system ones.

But space empires with hundreds of planets and megastructures is pure sci-fi. Even if your race has FTL why would people suddenly leave their comfy big cities to make tiny colonies? A small minority may want that but definitely not the majority.

[Anonymous No.10362753]

>>10362160
>we got engineered by aliums from existing life thanks to their 4 billion years head start and we are effectively helping them in colonizing the galaxy. They'll come back when it's ripe to be connected with the system.
>we might be those aliums in the future
>one doesn't exclude the other
What is the alternative to seed vessels? Saturate the galaxy with artificial structures? Seems more like a progression than an alternative.

[Anonymous No.10362868]

>>10359165
>life
>alien empire consisting of billions of worlds

You shift goalposts remarkably fast there.

[Anonymous No.10362878]

>>10359205
>>10359415

Theorizing in the absence of data is a capital mistake.

[Anonymous No.10362880]

>>10361372
>it is

Yay! Please share your data.

[Anonymous No.10362888]

>>10362215
From the outside, a Dyson Sphere could look one whole Hell of a lot like a red giant.

[Anonymous No.10362922]

>>10359165
The universe is really big and expanding, I think that's all there is to it. In terms of space, time, speed, it's simply way out of proportion with living beings. Humanity will never be able to explore more than 0.00000000001% of the universe, it should be the case for other civilizations too.

Most of those alien civilisations are probably stuck in their planetary system and don't have proof of alien life. Unless by chance there were two inhabited worlds close together. Even an alien empire controlling an entire galaxy would be nothing and totally invisible for anyone outside of that galaxy.

[Anonymous No.10362932]

>>10359178
stop being such a fucking faggot you gay nigger

[Anonymous No.10362956]

Abiogenesis is rare, complex life is rarer, intelligent life is rarer still, and the means and will to leave a planet instead of stagnation or short term gains are astronomically rare. There isn't much reason to split hairs about which of the first three filters is the most significant. Filter four however is a big deal for humans specifically.

[Anonymous No.10362957]

>>10362671
"far-fetched" would be saying just because we can't practically colonize other worlds with our currently technology, we will never do so in the future with future technology

[Anonymous No.10362958]

>>10362956
humans are keen to doing things just because they can. i'm sure with the option we would be colonizing worlds instead of stagnating here

[Anonymous No.10363012]

>>10359165
Because we don't travel between stars.

[Anonymous No.10363050]

>>10359165
With our current technology we can only detect an civilisation if it's in our own solar system. This is obviously not the case. But we detected come suspicious activity around some stars we don't quite understand.

[Anonymous No.10363071]

>>10363050
Even that not necessarily. There might be living billions of aliens inside asteroids that they turned into giant habitats and we wouldn't know.

[Anonymous No.10363084]

>>10359306
No matter how much time you win, it's never enough. Also greed is an indicator of brainletism.

[Anonymous No.10363101]

>>10359306
Maybe civilization simply can't exist for 10^20 years or there's a better source of energy.

[Anonymous No.10363116]

>>10359165
I have something even more depressing for you fuckers.

There are older civilizations out there that are millions of years ahead of us and those fuckers haven't figured out how to travel effectively between solar systems either or they'd spread out around the place in half a dozen centuries or so.

[Anonymous No.10363133]

>>10363116
Why would they spread? Do you people really think super advanced civilizations breed like Nigerians or something? At best they would have a bunch of small colonies.

[Anonymous No.10363144]

>>10363133
> virtual reality strawmaning

[Anonymous No.10363157]

>>10363133
Think about when giant bugs roamed earth. Now assume that instead of dying out because of rising oxygen levels, these super bugs would have kept evolving until they hit intelligence levels with which they can build a technological civilization, while at the same time still having the hive mind of an ant hill or a bee hive. Now this species just endlessly spreads without putting too much thought into why they are spreading, they are just following their instinct, trying to endlessly grow the number of their specimen. Now most of the civilizations might not be like that, but there needs to be just one to eventually colonize the whole galaxy.

A counter argument to this might be that intelligence always comes with a high level of self-awareness and thus such mindlessly ever expanding giant high-tech ants couldn't really exist.

[Anonymous No.10363159]

>pre supposing there exists empires that span several worlds

lmao, anybody with a shred of common sense knows this is bs

[Anonymous No.10363162]

>>10363133
Civilizations are guaranteed to spread. Half the human population on Earth would leave to found their own breeding colonies as soon as possible if it meant getting the fuck away from the other half.

Case in point: You.

[Anonymous No.10363169]

>>10363157
There is no reason for intelligence levels to grow in bugs. Humans and apes are fundamentally social creatures and the capacity to abstract is directly proportional to sociability. Hive mind just means extremely simple drive. It is not an all encompassing intelligence.

[Anonymous No.10363173]

>>10363159
Several worlds within a single solar system is easily done.

Several worlds over multiple solar systems is possible.

Spanning an entire galaxy? No way.

[Anonymous No.10363181]

>>10363173
Why haven't we done it then?

[Anonymous No.10363186]

>>10363181
I thought you meant theoretically, not technically

[Anonymous No.10363202]

>>10362958
An average fat burger can't even lift his ass let alone colonize anything.

[Anonymous No.10363211]

>>10363186
Theoretically and technically are quite literally the same thing in this instance. We are hyper intelligent apes that emerged from the earth. We ARE the earth and there is simply no reason to beleive, given our studies of biology, that another earth like planet will not birth an almost exact species of human. We are the natural conclusion of stipulation from the beginning. There is simply no other way intelligence permeates into existense except through us. and given the mind, and how societies are operating, and how we behave behave as a synthesis between logical inquiry and biological drive, there is no reason to think that we, or any intellgent biological entity, will ever conquer a space empire of any kind. I am actually way more inclined to say we are glued to the earth, and will remain so until the star dies.

[Anonymous No.10363222]

>>10363169
How can you be so sure of that? There would need to be just one bug specie that specialises its survival strategy in becoming more intelligent like humanoides did and if that evolution goes on for long enough eventually one could become as smart as humans eventually became, but without any emotions or even morals, just blind ant instincts combined with the sharp intellect that eventually discovers how useful fire, tools, etc are in following these instincts.

[Anonymous No.10363225]

>>10363157
>without putting too much thought
You can't have technology that way or niggers would be exploring galaxy already.

[Anonymous No.10363243]

>>10359172
>>10359196
this, were fucking blind right now, and they would use lasers or directional radio almost instantly, all with quantum encryption.

[Anonymous No.10363260]

>>10363222
You would need to provide an example of that happening, as it stands, in every form of life, morals, intuitions, feelings, emotions, are directly proportional to intelligence. This is a result of awareness and intellect being a result of sociability. What you are asking for is just profoundly incoherent, the same as saying we might be able to go light speed if there exists a secret element that has negative mass. Yes it possible in "logical principle", but you need to show it happening, and how it happens

[Anonymous No.10363261]

>>10363225
Such a species would not be like negroes, there would be more like humans, but without the SJW element. They would just suck out all the ressources out of earth and wouldnt care about climate change or anything like that, when they are done with this planet they go to the next one and so on. Can't do that with humanity if half of it are SJWs.

Ants are actually also a prime example for this as ants dont have females. They have one queen and she is constantly occupied with giving birth to everyone and everybody else in the society are male warriors and gatherers.

[Anonymous No.10363270]

Obviously we are to be the old ones. Some future species who today are nothing more than distant ancestors to the heir to our throne will stumble across the ruins of our civilization. Its up to us to figure out whether they stumble on a single planet or a species that spans many planets and systems.

Its also up to us to at some point awaken and become an ancient evil. Video games has taught me that this is true.

[Anonymous No.10363290]

>>10363261
this is actually exactly why fascism, or some sort of radical corporatism is the only way i see for humans to expand even more... not that that is a good thing. Its simply not possible to colonize anymore if you have such a self hating element. morality itself is what is holding back humans from continuing to self configure and expand even more.

[Anonymous No.10363312]

>>10363290
Humans have an extreme sense of self-awareness, so most people rather ponder the question why they exist instead of studying how to build a rocket engine for example. Humans are also extremely empathetic and even empathize with objects (like for example some people saying it would be unfair to the big rock that is Mars to be colonized by humans). These two features however are not necessary for becoming a technological being, and in fact those humans that excel the most at sciences rather lack in these two aspects, while artists thrive in them. So yes, the giant ants would produce gigantic motherships that can cross a galaxy, but they wouldnt be able to produce a piece of art like the Mona Lisa or the Moonlight sonata, and they also wouldnt gaze into the night sky in awe about how beautiful the universe is, they would just see it as ressources that are waiting to be gathered.

[Anonymous No.10363338]

>>10359165
They either:
Don't want us to find them.
Would travel here, but can't right now.
Are already here, hiding by some means that may or may not include working with some humans in a positive or negative manner.
It seems they were here in the past, and likely influenced the genomes of earth. There's a good chance humans are their hybrid children.

[Anonymous No.10363564]

>>10363173
>Several worlds over multiple solar systems is possible.
>Spanning an entire galaxy? No way.
If you can do one you can do the other.

[Anonymous No.10363579]

>>10363564
no because having a common civilization with laws and unity is impossible over 100,000 lightyears. imagine one star system defects and it takes hundreds or thousands of years for reinforcements to arrive. it's impossible for a single civilization to encapsulate the entire galaxy

[Anonymous No.10363583]

>>10363260
>in every form of life, morals, intuitions, feelings, emotions, are directly proportional to intelligence
*btfos your anthrocentrism*

[Anonymous No.10363590]

>>10363579
>a common civilization with laws and unity is impossible over 100,000 lightyears
I fail to see how that's relevant to anything.

[Anonymous No.10363603]

>>10363590
Whats the point in spending a gazillion dollars on a colonisation ship if you dont get to rule the colony.

[Anonymous No.10363700]

>>10362880
>Yay! Please share your data.
sure. here's a link to the draft's cover page
be sure to read from front to back!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

[Anonymous No.10363745]

>>10359306
I came here just to say that this was a good, well thought out post. Thanks for that.

I felt I needed to say this thanks to the tards who started shitting on your post simply because they're too dull to understand any of it.

[Anonymous No.10364703]

>>10359165
Because we can't even see every heavenly object in our own solar system, how the hell are we going to find aliens?
>Radio
This assumes they use radio, maybe they haven't invented it yet, maybe they stopped using it at some point.

[Anonymous No.10364763]

>>10359165
There could be a medieval civilization in Alpha Centauri and we’d never know unless we went into orbit of the planet. What the fuck are you talking about

[Anonymous No.10364852]

>>10359165
there is no need for colonisation past a certain technological threshold.

[Anonymous No.10364865]

>>10362281
At first it would be to secure themselves against local threats like super novae, then to harness energy, possibly for enormous computations, or simply to conserve it, and at really long distances of time it will, as the other anon said, be as a measure against entropy. Even if uploaded into a virtual reality in which time appears as if almost slowed to a halt, with millions of years of experiences in seconds, the mortality of the universe will still eventually be a problem

And the reduction of fertility rates of today doesn’t really matter if biological or some kind of uploaded immortality becomes a reality

[Anonymous No.10364878]

>>10359236
Yes, it is comparitively easy to create a dyson swarm that would change the spectra of a star to longer wavelength waste heat; a civilisation on this level could mount many expeditions to other stars and repeat the process on an, astronomically, short timescale. We should be able to see other civilizations if they reached this stage - which we expect every technological civilization to reach, barring some reason why we see zero of these. Fundamentally, the fermi paradox is why every star isnt just a haze of waste heat; not a question of why we cant detect radiowaves or whatever

[Anonymous No.10364891]

>>10362888
I think spectra lines would exclude that possibility, we would see more metals and nearly zero hydrogen and helium if this was the case

[Anonymous No.10364913]

>>10359165
I feel like either ET is preventing us from receiving signals from other solar systems or that life is anomalous and extremely rare.

[Anonymous No.10364922]

Space is REALLY FREAKING BIG and we have surveyed only a tiny fraction of it.

[Anonymous No.10364937]

>>10364922
But we still see stars which shouldn't exist if there were advanced civilizations out there. Stars in the sky are a glaring "YOU ARE ALONE" message.

[Anonymous No.10364940]

>>10363162
>Civilizations are guaranteed to spread.
not really, humanity already retreated from numerous well habitable areas on the planet, including islands on Pacific

[Anonymous No.10364946]

>>10364878
>is comparitively easy to create a dyson swarm that would change the spectra of a star to longer wavelength waste heat;
and dozens of Dyson Sphere candidates have already been detected

[Anonymous No.10364949]

>>10364937
one system alone can support trillions of humans for billions of years, there is little need for advanced civilizations to colonise space endlessly

[Anonymous No.10364975]

Why the obsession with finding any life on another world? Why not an obsession with finding life on another world that is worth having a conversation with?

[Anonymous No.10364978]

>>10359165
Ants crawl on the ground and think "there have to be smarter ants out there somewhere, why haven't we found them yet?"

[Anonymous No.10364981]

>>10364946
And every single one has been confirmed to NOT be dyson swarms. And we also found no infrared radiation which should come off as wasteheat of those systems which we scanned the entire local group for. Meaning no dyson swarms/spheres in our observable universe.

[Anonymous No.10364983]

>>10364978
what is this, an observation for ants? lolxkcd

[Anonymous No.10364986]

>>10364949
Entropy means they have to do so in the long-term and not doing it is irrational. I'm assuming species this advanced will be immortal as well so it's not like they won't experience it themselves.

[Anonymous No.10364988]

>>10364983
Gfdi of course there's an xkcd of every fucking one-off comment I write

[Anonymous No.10364992]

>>10364978
>>10364983
Except we've looked at the entire universe for infrared which is wasteheat that should always come off of dyson swarms and found nothing. This isn't a human standard, this is a fundemental physics limit so if it exists we should have seen it.

Means there are no technological species out there besides humans.

[Anonymous No.10365009]

>>10364992
>resting your entire theory on dyson swarms

[Anonymous No.10365015]

Either this >>10359306
or the dark forest is real, which fortunately seems unlikely.

[Anonymous No.10365020]

>>10364992
You're assuming a) that a race would resort to one of several power generation devices we've conceived of despite being exponentially more advanced than we are. Would humans in 1 AD have expected future humans to use nuclear power?

And b) that a race capable of building a Dyson swarm would build one so inefficient it lost enough heat to be seen across the universe as infrared radiation.

We have not "looked at the whole universe", new parts of the sky are getting studied literally every day and we're finding more weird shit every time we expand that horizon.

We've only just recently, like last few decades, started to see planets outside the Solar system. There is so much more than we don't know than there is that we do

[Anonymous No.10365022]

>>10365015
Dark Forest theory is actually the only answer to the "Why do stars exist" paradox.

Because the moment a species start building a dyson swarm it gives away its existence to other species that will immediately wipe them out.

Meaning species are locked forever in their own solar system and can never build dyson swarms due to game theory.

I still think humans being the only technological species is the most likely scenario though.

[Anonymous No.10365027]

>>10365020
>>10364992

That said, it's not my opinion that there's life out there. But I know for damn sure that if there was and we saw it we wouldn't have any idea what we were looking at

[Anonymous No.10365028]

>>10365022
Dyson swarms are completely retarded. Just build fusion reactors and harness the fusion energy directly.

[Anonymous No.10365034]

>>10364992
>believing we even understand 2% of reality

[Anonymous No.10365041]

>>10365009
No my entire theory is based on that entropy means matter and energy is finite and therefor all wasteful usage of energy (such as stars) will be stopped by species advanced enough to do so as it will eventually in the grand scheme of things be used by that species if they live long enough.

>>10365020
>You're assuming a) that a race would resort to one of several power generation devices we've conceived of despite being exponentially more advanced than we are. Would humans in 1 AD have expected future humans to use nuclear power?

This is completely irrelevant. Even if they have better power generation than the power of stars. Leaving the stars to burn is a waste of PRECIOUS energy that the species will have to use eventually due to entropy limiting the amount of matter and energy in the universe. They would at least store the matter of the stars until they run out of whatever better energy source they use instead of letting the stars waste their energy by burning randomly.

>And b) that a race capable of building a Dyson swarm would build one so inefficient it lost enough heat to be seen across the universe as infrared radiation.
Fundamental limit of physics dictate that every form of power generation will have waste heat in the form of infrared. This is the most efficient it can be due to entropy. Sure the species could in theory divert the infrared away and push it only in 1 direction away from the Earth. But this would assume that every species in the universe is diverting their infrared away specifically from the Earth. And again, this doesn't explain why there still exists stars. If there is one dyson sphere every star should have disappeared by now.

[Anonymous No.10365042]

>>10365028
yeah it's like the dysonfags don't even know what e=mc^2 implies

[Anonymous No.10365047]

>>10365041
>Leaving the stars to burn is a waste of PRECIOUS energy
there's more stars than atoms in the universe, moran

[Anonymous No.10365052]

>>10365028
Still doesn't explain away the paradox though. Sure you can do that but why would you let stars exist then? You would either harvest the power off of the stars that are burning it anyway. Or you would extract the matter of the stars to use that material for fusion reactors.

In both cases there shouldn't be any stars visible in the sky if there were technological species out there.

Letting stars burn without harnessing their energy or storing their matter until you want to use it is akin to shortening the lifespan of your species because you WILL eventually run out of energy and matter due to entropy.

Stars shouldn't exist if there were advanced species out there.

[Anonymous No.10365053]

>>10365052
Maybe stellar engineering is just impossible/impractical.

[Anonymous No.10365064]

>>10365052
>Stars shouldn't exist if there were advanced species out there.
god you're autistic over this.
anyhow, I found them

[Anonymous No.10365069]

>>10365064
No wasteheat detected from those places. Hubble is powerful enough to detect telltale infrared wasteheat in the massive amounts a star would generate within a dyson swarm

[Anonymous No.10365075]

>>10365053
Dyson swarm doesn't need any stellar engineering. It's just layers of sattelites orbitting a star so that 99.9999% of its energy gets harnessed. In fact we technically already started building out dyson swarm due to sattelites orbitting and harnessing our sun's energy.

[Anonymous No.10365083]

1: Due to entropy every piece of mass and energy will eventually run out and be unusable
2: Stars cause a massive amount of matter to be converted to energy due to the fusion reaction occurring in the star causing a lot of it to be wasted towards entropy as well as the radiation of the star not being harvested for something useful
3: A sufficiently advanced species will be immortal as there is no chance of extinction by outside forces

Using these 3 basic fundamental things you can argue that the visible existence of stars point towards there being no advanced technological species out there as it would be in their immediate best interest to stop the burning of stars as fast as possible to enlarge their theoretical length of their existence.

[Anonymous No.10365090]

>>10365083
but isn't most of the universe invisible to us?

[Anonymous No.10365248]

>>10365064
That’s not a picture of the Bootes Void. The Bootes Void also doesn’t violate the cosmological principle in any way. As this anon explained >>10365069, nothing on the infrared has been detected from this region. I see the Bootes Void used a lot in these /x/ images for some reason when the CMB Cold Spot is the only thing of its kind that appears anomalous, at least by our current understanding. Anyway, if intelligence existed anywhere else in the universe, there would only be void

[Anonymous No.10365280]

Best thread on /sci/ right now and alien lovers BTFO

[Anonymous No.10365284]

define 'we' there are some crackpots who claim that they are already here
you're not a proper scientist unless you consider all available possibilities
come at me bro

[Anonymous No.10365329]

>>10364981
>And every single one has been confirmed to NOT be dyson swarms
Wrong, several of them remain unconfirmed.As of now, we simply don’t have the necessary technology for confirmation.

[Anonymous No.10365332]

>>10364992
>Except we've looked at the entire universe for infrared which is wasteheat that should always come off of dyson swarms and found nothing
Wrong, we found dozens of candidates

[Anonymous No.10365343]

>>10365069
>>10364981
Sagan and Walker carried out an early analysis of the possibility of detecting a Dyson Sphere. They showed that a search out to 1000 pc was feasible even with sixties technology but that the possible confusion with natural signatures could require searches for other artifacts of intelligence such as radio signals associated with a candidate source.

Jugaku and colleagues have carried out a series of searches for partial Dyson Spheres. Typically they used the 2.2 μm K band as an indicator of the photospheric radiation of a star hosting a partial Dyson Sphere and then looked for an infrared excess in the IRAS infrared satellite 12 μm band. A 1 magnitude difference would arise if the Dyson Sphere covered 1% of the host star. The measured differences were characteristically less than 0.3 magnitude which is consistent with measurement errors. They selected a set of 1774 stars from the Woolley catalog nearer than 25 pc and found 458 with matches They looked at 384 of these stars for infrared excesses. With the exception of a few cases discussed in their 1990 article they found no sources with excesses suggestive of a partial Dyson Sphere covering as much as 1% of the host star.
Slysh and Timofeev at al. have the IRAS database for a different He estimated that all Dyson Spheres with temperatures from 50 to 400 �K within 1 kpc of the sun should have been detected. The Timoreev search looked at a population of IRAS sources in the 110-120 and 280-290�K temperature range as established by Kardashev and others and did Planck blackbody fits to the four IRAS bands. They fitted by minimizing to a Planck distribution. (Note that no Planck spectrum correction is made on the four measured fluxes from the filters.) Sylsh identified one possible Dyson Sphere candidate, G357.3-1.3. The Timofeev at al. search identified 10 or so candidates but ruled out most of them, often on the basis of associations.

[Anonymous No.10365385]

>>10359165
>makes fermi paradox brainlet argument
>"Please don’t give me your Fermi paradox brainlet arguments"

[Anonymous No.10365395]

>>10359306

BRILLIANT !

You gave the BEST answer I have ever seen to the paradox.

May you have many children and die very old.

[Anonymous No.10365438]

>>10363261
Every ant in every colony is female, except for the drones whos only job is to fly away in mass, fuck, and die.
All the workers and soldiers are female.

[Anonymous No.10366001]

NOOOO IT CAN'T BE TRUEE I THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE STARTREK BY NOW NOOOOOOO!!! MOMMY MOMMY WHERE ARE MY ALIENS MOOOOOOOM!!!

[Anonymous No.10367637]

>>10362363
underrated

[Anonymous No.10367674]

>>10359499
so?

It can look, but can't touch.

Unless it's a hot ass alien trap with a nice bubble butt

[Anonymous No.10367730]

>>10359322
>I don’t think we deserve to initiate contact with extra terrestrial life
you are literally the picture you posted. how the fuck do we not 'deserve' alien contact?

[Anonymous No.10367752]

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>>10367674 >>10367730
Stop making these threads. You're all stupid, and those of you who aren't, you're stupid for not just shutting this all down by saying what I'm about to say.
There is no Fermi paradox, why?
Let's start by saying that observable universe itself is massive with a radius of 46.5 billion light-years, or a diameter of 93 billion light-years, and we haven't even explored or mapped 1% of that.
Cont.

[Anonymous No.10367755]

>>10367752
Cont.
Now, for the main crux of the issue for those who understand the massive nature of it, why we haven't received any artificial radio signals, other than the Wow! signal, is because of signal attenuation. By the time signals get here, they're too weak to be picked up by our current technology.
As for why they haven't replied to any of the signals we've either consciously or ambiently sent is, again, due to the massive nature of the observable universe.
We have only been broadcasting radio signals into the universe for around 100 years, that is to say, those radio signals will have only travelled 100 light-years, which isn't really any great distance, and may have passed by exoplanets with extraterrial life that wasn't intelligent enough to receive them.
Part of the way we might be able to mitigate these issues is through the creation of equipment like the James Webb Space Telescope, that will allow us to collect and analyze more data from stars and their exoplanets.
Just wait, we're going to find something.

Now that this is settled, STOP MAKING THESE THREADS.

[Anonymous No.10367763]

>>10367752
>>10367755
k

>>10359290
>>10362130

[Anonymous No.10367769]

>>10367763
Shh...

[Anonymous No.10367777]

>>10359165
You people underestimate how rare intelligence is, the evolutionary processes involved and all. I mean like first of all it should be in control of its entire planet

[Anonymous No.10367785]

>>10367777
Statistically it wouldn't be enough wouldn't have radio signals, so the answer probably is signal attenuation.
Certainly considering how intelligent other animals are, on Earth alone. Even cctopi show "higher order" intelligence, that could evolve into complex tool building after a couple of million years (or so).

[Anonymous No.10367786]

>>10367785
>*octopi

[Anonymous No.10368971]

>>10367755
Just looking at radio signals is a very narrowminded view lol. Why did you tag everybody just to post the same brainlet regurgitation that’s already been posted several times in this thread

[Anonymous No.10369000]

>>10363162
There are tons of places on Earth with barely any people.

[Anonymous No.10369010]

The only way we could detect alien civilization with modern teach is if they were beaming a direct message right at us and their tech was like 1000x more powerful than ours. It's complete bullshit. So are megastructures.

There may be 1000 civilizations much more advanced than us in our galaxy and we wouldn't notice.

[Anonymous No.10369080]

>>10369010
Stars in the sky is evidence there are no advanced alien species.

[Anonymous No.10369607]

>>10368971
>Just looking at radio signals is a very narrowminded view lol.
Lol, that's because you're dumb as shit.
Radio waves are the first thing we'd see as evidence, then maybe certain molecules in the atmosphere of distant planets, of this way before visits from little green men. Why? The size of the universe, even if intelligent life was common, it would take them a long time to get here, and they'd only know to come here if they were within 100 light-years and could pick up our signals, and then, even if they set off at soon as possible, it would take them about 100 years to get here, even at C.
Gosh damn, you dumbasses sure boil my blood.

[Anonymous No.10369616]

>>10369080
Literally the most dumb statement eve rmade, by anyone.
We're intelligent, and "advanced" comparative to anything else we have actually state as existing, and look, we still have a star!
Now, look at the time and distance between planets, say you were 10,000 light-years away, and became so advanced you build bullshit megastructures, it would still take us 10,000 years before we even knew you'd done that, dumb dumb.
Stop breathing, you're wasting oxygen.