/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9933309
We are the only intelligent life

>>9933309
>believe
kill yourself

>>9933309
intelligent life is very unique, and apart by millions of years, making communication impossible.
Leftover machine intelligences have already been detected by us but ignored:WOW signal was a simple location ping, and we detected numerous Dyson Spheres already.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

>>9933321
there have been multiple searches for dyson spheres, and I never heard of any bring found. Back it up or its just bait nig

>>9933414
Wrong. Bayes' Theorem says otherwise.

>>9933309
>>each galaxy has a civilization
This seems fairly likely.

>>9933309
>1. we are the first and only life there will be in the universe OR there is life in the universe
right option
physical laws are same everywhere, planet earth isnt rare environment, life can emerge stochastically anywhere

>2. life only happens one place at a time with millions of years apart at random OR life can happen in multiple times and spaces
same question as one

>3. there is another civilization out there OR there is not another civilization out there
same question as one

>4. each galaxy has a civilization OR each galaxy doesnt have a civilization
right option

>5. there are several civilizations at the same time in each galaxy
same question as one

>6. life is spread like a std across the universe
same question as one

>>9933321
>WOW signal was a simple location ping
Source of the WOW signal was discovered to be local.
>and we detected numerous Dyson Spheres already.
Literally zero. For starters, an actual Dyson Sphere wouldn't let any light escape from it, thus we wouldn't be able to confirm it from Earth. It would be very difficult to spot a star system without the star being visible, and if the star is visible but there are some weird patterns of dimming then it is more likely to be some weird cluster of orbital debris than a Dyson Sphere. Warrants investigation, but jumping to conclusions is retarded. Stop being retarded.

>>9933309
1 and 6

>>9934892
>For starters, an actual Dyson Sphere wouldn't let any light escape from it, thus we wouldn't be able to confirm it from Earth.
It would be like a black hole, it would affect the light around it, so while you wouldn't see it directly, you would be able to tell that other star systems disappeared at regular intervals as the sphere eclipsed them or had bent/reflected/refracted light as it passed the sphere's crests.

>>9934982
>It would be like a black hole
Except not at all.
Black holes have specific features.

>>9935017
One of those specific features is that they affect light around it, just like a dyson sphere would also neither let much light escape.

>>9934891
Fool, laws of physics are the same throughout the universe but random events aren't and the more complex the conditions for the event, the more unlikely it will happen again.

We know life all originated from LUCA so it outrules a new life emerging on Earth in the 4.5billion timeframe the original has existed.

>>9935277
>laws of physics are the same throughout the universe
Feel free to prove that physically Boise, Idaho is no different from the center of a black hole.

>>9934878
Wrong. Definition 2 doesn't describe an absence of evidence.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

>>9933309
>>there may be another civilization somewhere out there
But it doesn't appear to be within our observable universe, so it might as well not be there for all we know

>>9935302
Center of blackholes are not a part of the universe, they are their own isolated systems.

>>9935327
>Center of blackholes are not a part of the universe, they are their own isolated systems.
Everything that is is a part of the universe, by definition of universe.

>>9935320
There is a big difference between the observable universe and the scrutable universe since the most we understand about the majority of the observable universe is just shadows.

>>9935328
Probably some whacko made that definition. If it cannot react with the rest of the uinverse, it simply isn't part of it.

>>9935337
Hawking Radiation can interact with the rest of universe.

>>9935338
Mass is related to hawking radiation not the centre.
>Implying the mass is at the centre of the blackhole rather than spacetime becomes so distorted making it impossible for a world line to reach the centre.
The mass just get to a certain point and then just orbits. So beyond this point it is impossible interact with.

>>9933309
Super advanced civilization has a HUGELY difficult problem to solve.
Creates an entire galaxy with only one intelligent civilization in it.
The parameters of the galaxy are such that this civilization can survive ONLY if it solves the HUGELY difficult problem.

We are that one intelligent civilization.

In a documentary they said octopuses and mammals followed two paths of evolution but both led to intelligence, which doesn't make intelligence unique but very unlikely. The octopus nervous system is different than ours with nerves arranged all over the body but achieves a remarkable level of intelligence
So if life ever formed on a planet similar to ours it is possible that such life also developed intelligence

>>9935758
>life also developed intelligence

There are LOTS of intelligent animals on earth, Dolphins, dogs, whales, even ants.
Neanderthal and other early humans were per-technology intelligent (creation and control of fire).
Neanderthal per probably SMARTER than regular man.
There is no reason to assume that having intelligence WILL lead to a technological civilization.
Whales could actually be 100 times smarter than humans but without a good manipulator of objects (hands) and an access to atmospheric oxygen creating and controlling fire would all be but impossible.
Fire is absolutely 100% essential to a technological civilization.

Even being technologically intelligent is is possible to exist for thousands if not millions of years without ever progressing beyond creation and control of fire.

>>9935302
>If I cook water on a mountain it boils at lower temperatures!
>This means that physics aren't consistent throughout the universe.
Create a critical mass in Idaho and it will just be like any other black hole, genius.

>>9935801
Yes but that was not my point. Dolphins dogs whales are mammals with a common ancestor. The point is that octpuses evolved intelligence through a totally different evolutionary path, so it is possible that there are intelligent animals on other planets, even civlization tier intelligence

>>9933309
>we are the first and only life there will ever be in the universe
Unlikely. Nothing unusual about this system, other than we're in it. It may not even be the optimal sort for life, and the other contender is magnitudes more common. Universe maybe young enough that we're among the first, but there are countless planets out there, some of which have been around more than twice as long, so that pool should be fairly large, given the size and repetitive nature of the universe.
>life only happens one place at a time with millions of years apart at random
Unlikely. Components/conditions are too common, insomuch as we know them, and we know there's more than one way to potentially skin the abiogenesis cat.
>there may be another civilization somewhere out there
Possibly.
>each galaxy has a civilization
That'd require something to enforce that - or maybe simply that the first civilization in each galaxy alters it in such a way that no subsequent one can form.
>there are several civilizations at the same time in each galaxy
Possibly, though conversely, there should be plenty of galaxies with no civilizations at all.
>life is spread like a std across the universe
What would be the vector?

Most likely scenario is life is rare, intelligent life rarer, and space faring civilizations rarer still. Easy enough to tack on enough zeroes to get to the point where such civilizations only occur once in every few galaxies.

>>9933309
If I had to guess, I'd say the most likely hypothesis is that while life might be fairly common in the universe at a single celled sort of level (e.t. might not even have cells as we understand the idea), the level of advancement that we've achieved is not. There might be or might have been advanced civilization(s) out there, but the odds of life reaching that level is probably staggering and therefore we probably wont ever meet another advanced civilization.

>>9933321
The wow signal was from a pulsar. The only reason it was a big deal is because that was the first time anyone had actually detected a pulsar in the first place.

>>9933414
Okay, well, I don't have evidence that unicorns made of cheese aren't real, so they must be real. Please, be less of a retard in the future.

>>9935277
>We know life all originated from LUCA
No, we don't. We know all current life on Earth is related to LUCA, but it may be there was other life, and LUCA just became dominant and/or changed the environment in such a way that no other life survived. (Such as by flooding the place with oxygen and causing an ice age - which apparently happened.)

>>9935758
I would venture a guess that intelligence /self awareness naturally emerges once a system becomes complex enough.

>>9933321
>we detected numerous Dyson Spheres already
I think we woulda heard about that.

Dyson spheres are kinda retarded thing to be looking for anyways.

Assuming the pattern we see here is normal, space faring civilizations are apt to gain virtual biological immortality before they gain interstellar travel, and, assuming FTL travel is not possible, they'd more or less have to.

This means they'd need to find a reliable way to maintain a population cap before they burned out their own biosphere, and thus went extinct.

Thus they likely have fixed populations, and are very forward thinking due to their longevity, capable of defining their drives, rather than be defined by them. A civilization capable of this, isn't going to go down unsustainable paths the way a life form still slaved by its base drives would. Such tiny and unimaginably efficient civilizations wouldn't have need of a Dyson sphere, nor need to colonize more than a handful of systems to avoid potential extinction at the hands of cosmological disasters. (Even in a war between such civilizations of such technology, population isn't an advantage, given how much more quickly one can manufacture war machines than breed.)

They'd have no footprint detectable by us - not that we aren't entirely blind anyways - as we could easily miss another Earth-like civilization in our own solar system.

>>9934982
no, it would look like the star that is obscured, but all the light would instead be in a much lower wavelength, whatever the final waste heat of the sphere is

>>9933309
I choose to believe that life does exist out there, it's just we're the most advanced it's gotten.

Means that we shouldn't be the ones to fuck up. Makes me feel some kinda hope for our future.

>>9935842
>Okay, well, I don't have evidence that unicorns made of cheese aren't real, so they must be real.
So you're saying the absence of evidence is evidence of presence? Please, be less of a retard in the future.

I believe that there might be some life forms that have a different type of intelligence and maybe we will never be able to even recognise them

>>9933309
There is zero evidence to back any of those hypotheses, so I don't know which is correct. Nor does anybody else. "Belief" is an interesting thing, and of course you can believe whatever you want, but that's not science.

>>9935920
Actually, it might be that we are the fuckups and the real dudes are yet to evolve from another species.

>>9934892
>an actual Dyson Sphere wouldn't let any light escape from it, thus we wouldn't be able to confirm it from Earth.

It would have to radiate as much energy as the star inside, unless you want it to gt hotter and hotter and hotter inside... I'd expect it to loom a lot like a red giant from the outside. Not sure how you'd tell what it was without getting a close look.

>It would be very difficult to spot a star system without the star being visible

Gravity, muffugah, do you find it attractive?

>>9936114
>Nor does anybody else.
Speak for yourself.

>>9935801
>Fire is absolutely 100% essential to a technological civilization.

It certainly was for ours. We could speculate on other ways to get there, though.

If you lived n a planet with lots of weak volcanoes, you could do everything with that heat source that you can do with a fire.

We could also speculate that some sort of civilization could arise using complex catalysts. Might not look like ours, but you might be able to get somewhere with it.

But that's all speculation -- as far as we know, there is one technological civilization, and fire was essential to its arising.

>>9935830
>Ocopuses evolved intelligence

To an extent. They have emphatically NOT developed civilization, or a culture. If nothing else, their extremely short lifespan would make that difficult.

>>9935832
>Nothing unusual about this system.

Unless life is unusual. We have no data at all on how likely it is that life will emerge from even the most optimal initial conditions.

>>9935840
You've confused your signals, friend. The WOW signal was much more recent than the first detection of pulses from a quasar.

>>9936161
>I chortled.

OK, I stand corrected -- neither does anybody else outside of /x/.

>>9936150
>Gravity, muffugah, do you find it attractive?
You'd need to spot the things the gravity is acting on, usually planets, unless it is a binary pair with only one being surrounded by a Dyson Sphere, and spotting planets without the host star being visible would be extremely difficult.

>>9936175
We actually do have some. We know what's required for life (as we know it), we know under what circumstances RNA reproduces, and we've created various abiogenesis experiments that have potential in that direction.

There's countless planets in the universe under similar conditions, and perhaps even under identical ones, and plenty with the potential to have been under those conditions for longer.

And we have some idea of how ludicrously large the universe is.

I mean, if we were orbiting a quadruple set of neutron stars locked in place by opposing black holes, or some other crazy shit that would render this system in any other way unusual and we were made of anti-matter, then we might be able to say with some confidence that the odds are good we're the only life in the universe - but we're not. This system is typical and we're made up of the most common elements in the universe. If this painfully typical system can create life, there should be countless others that have done the same. Indeed, there's a good chance there's life elsewhere in this system, given we find nucleotides in meteorites all the time.

Intelligent life and civilization, on the other hand, we're less certain of (in the case of the latter, partly due to controversy). Increasingly that's looking more like a series of rare flukes built upon rare flukes that came together in just the perfect fashion. It could very well be that microbial life is common, but complex and intelligent life is maybe found once in a million galaxies. (Granted, that'd still mean there's a lot of it out there - but odds are, we'd never meet it.)

>>9936186
Stars bend light, and they alter the orbits of other nearby stars, whether or not you've encased them. (Not that Dyson spheres aren't stupid AF, but, just sayin - that's how we find docile black holes.)

>>9934892
https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-just-found-a-second-dyson-sphere-star
Technically, it's a Dyson swam star, but you get the point.

>>9936270
Something that might, possibly, perhaps, be a Dyson sphere is not to be described as, "We found a Dyson sphere.", particularly when there are multiple other possibilities on the table. We thought pulsars were alien communications for awhile too.

On the other hand, it's true, it's not been aliens so many times now, if it ever should finally be aliens, we might not believe it.

>>9935365
Orbiting is an interaction.

>>9936270
>we have other more plausible explanations
>DYSON SPHERES CONFIRMED

>>9936210
>Stars bend light
The amount they bend light is pretty minuscule in comparison to something like a black hole, largely because of the distance.
Add to that the Dyson Sphere would need to be far enough from the star to not melt, there's no way light would get close enough to a star that's fully encased by a Dyson Sphere to bend in a reasonable manner.

>>9935832
>we know there's more than one way to potentially skin the abiogenesis cat.
We aren't even certain of one way that can happened.