/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9499964
A middle school student can do that math

>>9499964
I guess all biology is only introductory biology.

Definitely no math at the higher levels. That'd be crazy!

Why does that shit look so much like [math](p + q)^2 = 1[/math] from high school?

>>9500003
Depends on the Bio. Many people try doing basic ecology or zoology or just a basic "Biology" degree.

>>9500016
because it's literally that
Weinberg, a biologist, couldn't figure that shit out so they had to go ask a top tier mathematician (Hardy) about it

>>9499964
>>9499987
>>9500003
>>9500016
>>9500023
>>9500028
There's a bit more to the Hardy Weinberg principle than that bros http://evolution.gs.washington.edu/pgbook/pgbook.pdf

The real fun stuff in biology is mathematical modeling.

>tfw fell for the "bee yourself" meme and took a biology path
>now sitting with a biotechs and a bioengie degrees but there are no jobs for me
>cant get a startup running because the entry price for my field is too high
>meanwhile i could have gone for some cs ans programming degree or cert and i would have been comfily working from home, making websites for boomers

Biology is just a big meme. I love the field and all, but its a dead end, unless you want to be a hippie or some lab monkey with a phd in cell-level faggotry

>>9500127
The only logical path for someone that wants to work in the field is to go biology undergrad and then into bioinformatics or some systems biology shit. You get the knowledge in a field that you like throughout your undergrad years and avoid the grinding at the lab for the rest of your life path. Of course, that requires that you take some courses in bioinformatics while you're at uni and do a master's.

All science degrees are shit for the most path, but bio gives you a useful head start towards this path which is quite a healthy career choice for the time being. So I find it's kind of ridiculous that people call bio shit, since relatively to the other degrees it should be compared to, like physics or chemistry, it offers more opportunities.

>>9500023
If you're talking about work opportunities, it doesn't matter if you've done ecology or biology or biochemistry. Work in the field in general is shit. If anything, an ecology or biology degree might have you do more modelling so it's more useful if you want to get into comp. bio. It depends on the uni I guess.

>>9499964
>cigoto is zygous in english
what a bunch of faggots

>>9499964
>forgetting that there is only math jobs available in bio because no one in bio knows math.

>>9500718
That's the point. Also math fields will always be more useful

there's diff eqs in population dynamics

>>9500818
Not too difficult to solve, plus most of them get set up into algebraic functions before getting shipped off to the biologists anyway

>>9500837
Orly?

>>9500708
You don't even need to go the bioinformatics route, being a well versed at NMR or mass spec or whatever would probably also land you a job. The most important thing is to not be a brainlet who skips out on the computational/biophysical classes.

>/sci/ pseudointellectuals laughing at the simple equation
>none of them would be able to understand the theory behind it.

Remember the only Bio that's actually good is Biochem

Do I have to take a million CS classes to get into basic bioinformatics? I know its required to get hired these days.

>>9500989
That's just a worse Bio physics though

>>9499964
>There is only one thing which is more unreasonable than the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in physics, and this is the unreasonable ineffectiveness of mathematics in biology.
>—Israel Gelfand

>>9500989
It's even more boring than general or molecular bio, and if it's possible it has even less math. In my experience most people there are serious brainlets, it seems that they do biochem because they think the name makes them look cool but I swear there's barely any of them that are actually interested in the biochem-exclusive material not included in other degrees. Power to you if you are one of the latter, but goddamn there's a lot of hypocrisy and insecurity among most biochemists.

>>9500127
I switched from business and now I'm on the verge of dropping out. Definitely questioning my decision

For a first year elective should I take a zoology or biochem course?

>>9501305
What do you want to do?

>>9500127
>>9501278
This all depends on where you live. There are many Bioengie jobs if you move to the right state.

>>9501352
Thinking of physics as it is the only science other than medical sciences and engineering that has a long term skill shortage where I live

>>9499964
I became a biologist to become a physician, to make more money than most of you. I taught myself calculus, and I can pay one of you retards to teach me higher level maths. Physicians are glorified biologist who keep you retards from dying so you can continue playing your math puzzles

>>9499964
with all the people dying here in the states of the flu, who do you think are the only people doing anything about it

>>9501278
I could be wrong and i could be memeing, but with a biology degree, you're reatrained to working in one field and maybe taking a huge loan to start some lab business or something.
With a business degree you could work on any field or you could even higher pajeets to work for you.

Though thia doesnt matter if there are enough tech and atem jobs where you live.

>not doing the microbiology route combined with immunology so you can work in food lab, drug tester or research.
Plebs

>>9501495
>I'm so smart
>I need others to help me with math!
It's funny how all medfags on /sci/ are insecure faggots that can only talk about money

>>9501455
>>9501455
but what do you actually want to study

>>9501684
think about what you say before you say it, everyone has professors that teach them something. I never claimed to be smarter than anyone, I'm simply saying yall need to come off your high horse. Biology is a respectable STEM field just as physics and chemistry. When did this biology is not a real science meme start cause everyone seems to be jumping on the fuck biology bandwagon.

>>9501728
nobody said otherwise....

>>9500044
Population genetics is an interesting and math heavy subject that everyone seems to forget exists.

>>9501728
biology is fucking stupid dude. There's nothing in it that's fundamentally hard or brainlet-proof.

>>9499964
I don't agree with you bashing my field of study, however I do appreciate you said most people and not all cause that would have just been a hasty generalization. I won't lie there are a bunch of bullshitters in the field of biology because afterall D's get degrees but the more appropriate proposition would be all women in biology

>>9501739
i was too much of a brainlet for bio and chem
had to switch to pure math

>>9501739
Have you ever taken an advanced course in genetics? Fundamentally biology is simple to understand, just like any other field in STEM but once you begin to delve into the true nature of biological systems then things are not so rudimentary. anyone can learn anything if they are truly passionate about it

>>9501752
blah blah blah phenomenological shit

nobody cares brainlet, biology isn't hard

>>9501739
>Math was understood for thousands of years
>It wasn't until recently that someone figured out natural selection

>>9501752
>anyone can learn anything if they are truly passionate about it

>>9501788
what is your field?

>>9501805
that statement is true, do you think only aristocrats and the clergy, who made most of the discoveries in science, were the only intelligent people in history.

>>9501752
>anyone can learn anything if they are truly passionate about it
>any field in STEM is simple to understand

Biology is very simple & easy compared to other STEM majors

But try to learn Graduate level Physics, Math & EE by yourself without ever going to College faggot.

Then tell me that's easy or not.

>>9501844
you sound like a whiny little bitch, you're not special faggot and you'll never contribute anything to your field if you're even formally trained

>>9499964
>majoring in bio
50% of the bio majors I know are doing marine biology. Theres like 20 active working career marine biologists in america. wtf are they planning on doing? Besides being a stay at home mom

>>9501867
Have you ever heard of doctors

>>9501867
>50% of the bio majors I know are doing marine biology.
>Theres like 20 active working career marine biologists in america
>wtf are they planning on doing?

Brainlets crowd end up in brainlet meme fields like Marine Biology, Zoology, Ecology, Agriculture & Nursing.

Brain bulls go to Biochemistry, Biophysics, Pharma or become >>9501873
Medical Doctors

>>9501873
>doctors
Yeah i'm sure theres a high demands oh dolphin doctors in the US

>>9499964
my professor, who is a biologist, developed a method to fertilize desert land in North Africa. He made a fortune

>>9501892
The problem is that the vast majority of biology undergrad students prefers the first areas you pointed. They are utterly retards which almost null of mathematical and physical intuition.

>>9500712
What language is cigoto?

It comes from "zygote" I believe. Which is a pretty cool word if you ask me.

>>9501509
One thing is certain: your spelling and grammar is atrocious.

>>9501728
It's probably based off an xkcd comic or some stupid shit and is based on nothing. something about "stamp collecting". Ignore the science elitists, they don't actually matter.

>>9501788
That's just rude.

>>9501799
checkmate, mathophiles

>>9501867
This is hilarious to me because a marine bio major female who works in my microbiology lab, who was on maternity leave, who just resigned to take care of her kid.

>>9501951
Add fertilizer?

>>9500864
Yes

>>9501982
you can't just add fertilizer to sand it will seep through and end up in ground water you need to make good nutrient and water retaining soil

>>9501736
The Hardy Weinberg is literally in the OP. It's not that people forget it exists, it's that they have no fucking clue it exists. 95% of the posters on this board are still in high school or a first year soon to be college drop outs. Take a look at this retard for example
>>9501022
It's painfully obvious he has no fucking idea what he's talking about.
>In my experience most people there are serious brainlets
In this 6 months of being in college experience he has a lot to say about biochemistry as a field.
>but goddamn there's a lot of hypocrisy and insecurity among most biochemists.
Ya, all those biochemists working in academia and industry surely are "hypocritical" and "insecure", thanks for letting me know Mr. Faggot-kid.

Any filed of study is a less-scientific than another field that is more math-based.

Biology is a science. But it's a less-scientific than physics.

>>9502618
What you mean is that in biology you can't always make as accurate predictions as you can in physics. That's not "less scientific", but I get your point. This is because of the scope of the field though, biology deals with extremely complex systems of which we don't even know most variables. It's natural that the status quo of our understanding will change over time as more things are discovered. In physics you deal with defined systems and variables that you can predict, most of the time anyway. It makes sense that you can get more accurate results.

Math doesn't always guarantee that you will get more accurate results or that something is more "scientific". In bioinformatics people make a lot of predictions using math but that doesn't mean they are accurate, again because there are many variables unaccounted for. Math-based predictions are only good when you can model most of the relevant forces correctly, just using math by itself doesn't guarantee anything. Scientists in the field have been making better predictions about what their research will yield than immature math models ever could, which is why bio was and still somewhat is very wet lab focused.

>>9500044

>biologists argue for 10 years
>one of them asks his math bro about it
>math bro immediately writes a 3 paragraph explanation using rudimentary mathematics to answer it

fuckng biologists LMFAOOOOOO

How many people here have actually taken a class besides intro bio? Has anyone experienced grad level bio? Done any actually research in biology?

>>9501844
Try learning systems biology without going to school or any biology for that matter.

>>9502618
So Math is the most science science? Oh wait that's retarded. Also some fields of biology are just as math filled.

>>9501736
>Planning on getting my grad in Pop Gen
How is it?

>>9499964
Ah yes, biology sure is hard. Those biologists must be really smart

>>9502850
I did my undergrad in Ecology and Evolution if you have any questions. It's a lot of long labs and memorization. I've worked in a fly lab, work seasonally as a tech for government mosquito surveillance, and currently work in another insect based lab. I pretty much only do tech work because I have garbage grades and don't have plans for grad school anytime soon.

>>9504410
>Kek look at this dumb person
>That means they are all dumb!
How does it feel knowing Darwin was smarter than all physics and math cucks?

>>9504529
Do you like your job? How hard is finding work?

>>9504606
I graduate in May, but I currently work at the other insect lab.

I love almost all the jobs I can pull with this major but there is a certain amount of labor needed and it's not high salary. A lot of it is seasonal or temporary work. You really have to sell yourself and know what you're looking for in terms of work to make it.

Why (p+q)^2=1 instead of just p+q=1 ?

>>9504410
>medical science paper
>not even a PhD, just EdD
>"biologists"

the absolute state of this board

>>9505205
p+q could also be -1

My sister is in her third year of a biology degree and the only math class she had to take was some algebra review from high school. Honestly I think that the less math involved, the lower the barrier of entry and thus the more flooded said field of study is going to be.

>>9501971
Kek'd

>>9500044
Is this supposed to be math heavy

>Dad REALLY wants me to go get science/engineering degree to have a stable future
>take some classes, like bio anthropology and paleontology
>decide to do that cause "lol calculus was hard"
>none of my classes interest me as much as the anthro and paleo
>freshman me was a fucking moron
>graduating in the fall with no idea what to do with this degree


Talked about grad school with some professors but they all mentioned having some kind of passion for their research, at least enough for a professor to think I'm worth the resources and let me work in their lab, but I just don't have it. Unless I get lucky, seems like I may be fucked.

>>9506184
>>decide to do that cause "lol calculus was hard"
You weren't gonna make it with that mindset. The active researchers of any STEM field are not people who could not do calculus, they're people that in some cases chose not to because their interests lay in another direction.

>>9500708
I studied physics for my undergrad and just got into the Yale Physics Ph.D. program because I applied for Biophysics Theory. Biologists need physicists precisely because we can do both jobs. Biologists don't analyze complex mathematical systems, and biologists especially don't attempt to model those system computationally without outside assistance.

>>9506184
Don't worry, dude. It doesn't matter if you have passion about it or not. Just be good at whatever you do, and it won't matter. Also be good at writing papers/proposals. Just find good mentors to mimick imo. This is me>>9507229
I did research in HEP-Ex my first two years and Nuc-th my last 2. I won a Goldwater with the second group, and I got into a top school with no interest in either field. Randomly picked Biophysics because I read some papers that sounded interesting and we're computationally intensive.

>>9507229
>Biologists need physicists precisely because we can do both jobs. Biologists don't analyze complex mathematical systems,
This depends on your department and university. I know biologists who took systems biology electives and then moved into relevant fields. Although if we're talking biophysics specifically, it's more likely that your background will be physics because the field requires more mathematical knowledge to conduct research in that it does biological, so it makes sense. Also in the post you quoted I was talking about (mainly) bioinformatics rather than biophysics, so the same arguments don't apply. Each department is different.

>>9506184
I wish I was a biology major.

Why did I fuck my life up so hard

>>9507240

>>9506184 Here

Yeah i guess I should try doing a better job of taking advantage of my opportunities while i have them and seek them out. Just need to grow up and do some shit i don't want to. Not sure what I could do now, since I'm kind of running out of time and grades aren't particularly good (3.1 GPA). I've been doing the bare minimum since I dont want to commit to anything.

>>9507839
What are you doing now anon? Probably isn't that bad

>>9505205
for frequencies of hetero and homozygous genotypes, rather than just total allele frequencies

>>9507839
>I wish I was a biology major
>Why did I fuck my life up so hard

drop out?

most people get bio degrees for the medical industry, not because they don't like math

>>9501495
>pay one of you retards to teach me higher level maths
>to dumb to self learn
>calls others dumb

>>9499964
>implying that hardy weinberg requires ''math'' knowleadge
brainlet detected

>>9500023
Ecology students usually take population dynamics, which involves calculus and statistics.

>>9499964
In practice, most of the bio jobs are in research/industry work. Undergrads beware, do molecular biology, not marine biology.

Many people really in practice operate as a blend of several skill sets which may in fact, change over time depending on the needs of the work. A "biology" lab is really in good part a chemistry/genetics/bioinformatics lab.. a "genetics" lab is also possibly doing a lot of hardcore biology, that is model organism work. It's in essence all the same shit, worldwide, just different labels indicating what the primary focuses are out of the same puzzle pieces. Research biology labs are really more like in total, a jack-of-all-trades discipline-wise, with some people really more of chemist/physics/comp-sci flavored, with the uniting skill set being working with organisms hands-on. The math of biology = statistics ... it's absolutely necessary; many of hours in a biologist's career might be spent scrutinizing/agonizing over stats techniques/methods.

One may not actually be a bioinformatician by degree but by the time you have your PhD, there may have been months of your life where your actual daily work was often compsci related, if not directly from you then from collaborating with someone who taught you enough to wing it. You might have picked up R, python, perl etc. You may not be a geneticist by degree but if you wound up doing an RNAseq of something you may have to pick up the tools, databases and statistical analysis techniques geneticists use. You may not be an organic chemist by degree but at some point might have had to try to isolate or precipitate things to run through a mass spec and may have had to invent an optimize your own protocol to do it, again requiring a lot of training and understanding - all of these things, you will never have known you'd need as undergrad, or non-biologists on /sci/ wouldn't have known if I didn't just tell you.

>>9499964
Barely anyone takes Bio because they don't like math. Although the fact that there's less math than in physics or something is probably a contributing factor it's almost never the main reason.

You sound like someone who hates biofags because of incorrect assumptions. The reason biofags can't get jobs easily is because biology just isn't tremendously useful. Outside of research, what kind of company needs to hire a biologist? If you want to work with animals you get a veterinary degree or a biomedical science degree. If you want to work with humans you get a medicine degree. If you want to work with plants 'n stuff you do bio-engineering or agricultural engineering.

>be electrophysiologist
>develop script to analyze high frequency oscillations
>phd student says "it's not her job" to understand the code or the math behind the processing

>>9500127
>le startup
>implying research jobs aren't plentiful if you're actually worth anything

i don't get why brainlets get into stem to begin with

>>9501820
>only people with access to resources can make scientific advancements
>therefore everyone with access to resources can make scientific advancements
So according to you, all rectangles are square?

>>9500708
what if I do the inverted path?
I'm not sure about the definition of undregrad and Ph.D cause I'm foreign, but I'm starting an IT course on uni next month and I have hopes to get into biology after I'm done with the four basic university years.
I mean, it's not really a Computer Science course, but I still have hopes for transfer in the next semester.
Think that'd be viable?

>>9499964
I did a biology undergrad degree and, despite having quite a lot of statistics, the level of actual mathematics involved was barely even beyond what I learn in my last year of highschool. Maths was always my favourite subject but I got drawn in by the idea of "genetic engineering" without looking into what I would actually be studying deeply enough.

>>9510593
>phd student says "it's not her job" to understand the code or the math behind the processing
it's not. You think those retard CS programmers know what they are looking at or just how hard it is to get single-molecule resolution of molecules when i ask them for a script to identify certain parameters? Not my fucking job m8, just as yours isnt to understand the chemistry behind sticking fluorescent probes on proteins

>>9512079
and that's exactly why teamwork matters
/thread

>>9510643
When you say get into biology you mean bioinformatics? You could apply for a master's in that case, but whether they'd take you depends on what your IT degree actually has you doing. If you learn a good amount of programming and mathematics I'd say your chances are great, since they'll probably give you the bio knowledge you need in the MSc. I guess you would have to have some interest in biology to begin with, and you should of course mention that or have something to show for it in your personal statement or CV.

There are other factors at play of course, how competitive the uni is, how many applications they get, what kind of graduates they're looking for etc. But if you apply to many courses you should definitely be able to get into one. The reason I'm mentioning a master's degree is because I'm from europe, people here tend to do undergraduate 4 years (3 if from england) and then 2 years of master's (1 if from england) and then 3/4 years of PhD if you actually want to go the academic route. But you could just stop at the master's level and seek a job in your field.

>>9510270
>If you want to work with plants 'n stuff you do bio-engineering or agricultural engineering
Fuck

>>9501728
It has to do with all the premed burnouts and women going into the liberal arts side of the field.

>>9503273

My Gen Bio 2 professor was a phd in quantitative biology. Basically, an autistic amount of running around measuring organisms.

>>9506184
How do you find passion for someone else' research?

How do you even find a passion to research something out of thin air?

Haven't kept up with this thread, but I think this post is very accurate: >>9510229.

OP, biology is a very broad field and, by extension, the BA/BS is a broad degree. As a result, as has been mentioned, there are a number of different sub-fields and sub-disciplines. Some of these, such as marine biology, ecology, zoology, and physiology, do not offer as many career choices. Others, such as biochemistry, molecular biology, biophysics, bioinformatics, systems biology, or computational biology, do offer career options, for graduate school or jobs in the market. (Likewise a degree in chemistry or physics or bioengineering, with some good lab experience, will allow someone to make to jump to biomedical research.)

So, the key here is to specialize as an undergrad. Like the post I quoted said, do molecular biology, not marine biology. In addition, get at least one year of lab experience as an undergrad. When it comes to getting your first job out of undergrad in biomedical research, your research experience and lab skills will likely be more important than your grades.

If you want to stay in biomedical research, this first job will likely be a tech position in academia. It's a fine job for two or three years out of school in your early- to mid-20s, because the job is a stepping stone. With this experience under your belt, you can move on to grad school, professional school, bench research in industry, or even business or consulting jobs.

I graduated about eight years ago by now. Job hopped for a year at some temp jobs in industry, then worked as a tech in academia. There were a bunch of us around that time who stayed for two years, then left. That was five years ago now. Few of us did PhDs, others went to med school, to big pharma to be research associates, to biotech start-ups, and the business development route in big pharma.