/sci/ - Science & Math

B-b-b-but I'm not wasting my life!
I'm coming up with unprovable answers to extremely vague questions that nobody ever asked and will never be useful to anybody ever.
I'm also producing massive MASSIVE quantities of pretentiousness. I mean, where would the world be without all that?

>All those perfectly good minds wasted on philosophy
Well, maybe we're stupid and they see something we don't?

Philosophy is for people who want to think but do not want to know.

>If this premise is true, which it probably isn't and infact has been proven to be false, then WHAT WOULD HAPPEN

>>5397749
Delicious mental masturbation

>>5397749

Opinions on philosophy are an exercise in philosophy.

Science is an empirical philosophy which is evolving subtly throughout the ages as humans catch on to more mechanisms of nature that prevent them from being objective even when they're trying to.

Now.

Philosophy is very useful

(though I hate people who major in it. The arts [cooking, music, sculpting, painting, writing, philosophy, etc.] do not warrant the restraint of a curriculum. it should be what one occupies their leisure time with, when doing other things. I philosophize while cooking, shitting, playing video games, and getting inebriated)

and it can be used to balance science.

Science finds out what is true, but it does not decide what to do with the truth. People under the spell of one philosophy or another commission scientists, convince people to support science, decide what do do with the information apprehended by science, and-- in past ages-- allowed the science to live when they could have simply regarded the scientist as a charlatan.

All the physicists who decided to cooperate with the manhattan project were exercising political and military philosophy to make the decision to use their objective knowledge for subjective political goals that had to be decided upon in their present.

Life is more complicated than "herp derp the smartest guy should win because fuck those other guys."
The war between the personality archetypes is eternal. That is the lesson written fiction of EVERY era, astrology, RPGs, myerrs briggs, etc. teaches to anyone savvy enough to catch on.
Sadly many scientists disregard their own principals and retreat into fantasy by ignoring certain aspects of reality. They ignore the humanities, assuming that their love for the rational and the practical is universal among their species just because it SHOULD BE. Many of them act as though they already live in the future where their mindset rules society.
It must be fought for, the legions of stupid are ever being born.

"Wasting" is totally a subjective matter.

>>5397770

Thank you for boiling down my super long post into one sentence.

I need people like that sometimes.

But yeah guys.

You must understand. Not everyone in society can be a scientist (that's not practical, we need doctors construction workers, law enforcers, daycare workers, English teachers, History teachers, soldiers, janitors, librarians, coaches, chefs, etc.

Some people are dead set on becoming one of those things from a young age. Some people are told by their parents to ignore that "math and science bullshit" because daddy wants sonny to join the beer-brewing business or the taxi-driving business, or the car-making business.

Not everyone catches on to why science is useful or practical, and many people disregard it as overanalyzing nerds getting paid to deconstruct everything hitherto mysterious and beautiful into deterministic laws.

Simply being a grumpy pants about "all the stupid X majors" won't make them go away.

The world is more complicated than that. And if you had been objectively observing the human habitat, you'd know that by now.

But never forget science is a philosophy. Never forget the simple truths of the observer effect and the uncertainty principle.

Never forget that the accuracy of your measurement of a curved line approaches 100% as the number of differentials you chop it up into approaches infinity. Nothing will ever be perfectly true. Just approximately.

Even the mathematical models human design to represent their data are subjective in a way.

What is a line graph but an precise visual metaphor for changing quantities over time?

Philosophy made math and science, not the other way around. Read about the atomists and the pythagoreans.

>>5397768
>>5397781
Hey

You need

To

Stop

Doing This

It

Is

Annoying

>>5397795
Sacrificing readability would do no good for a shithead like you

any suggestions for a "philosophy 101" for someone that hasn't done anything besides math since 11th grade?

>“Is e=mc2 a sexed equation? Perhaps it is. Let us make the hypothesis that it is insofar as it privileges the speed of light over other speeds that are vitally necessary to us. What seems to me to indicate the possible sexed nature of the equation is not directly its uses by nuclear weapons, rather it is having privileged what goes the fastest.”

Behold the greatest achievement of philosophy!

>>5397826
>Is this crazy thing true?
>Let's make the hypothesis that it is
>???
>PHILOSOPHY

>>5397727

Well, I study philosophy and I'm pretty dull-witted.
>all those good philosophies wasted in a slow mind

>>5397768

I agree with much of what you're saying, but
>"sciences find out what is true"

Oh shit nigga, what are you doing? How is that possible?

>>5397828
start with atlas shrugged

>>5397826

More like the absolute worst achievement of politicized philosophy, but yeah, is that Irigaray? Absolutely atrocious (if I'm not really dense and have missed vital information)

>>5397768
>Science finds out what is true

Confirmed for never having read Hume; positivist scum pls go

>>5397863
Realest nigga in dat philosophy game

>>5397872

Hume seems like he was such a mellow and awesome guy. Some of the implications of his philosophy are far, far out, yet he always keeps his feet to the ground.

ROFL according to this survey, the average person in college must have an IQ ~110-115

OOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL at that if you've ever been inside a university

Also:

>Using SAT to estimate IQ

LOLOLOLOLLLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

All humans are truly niggers, I can't believe I'm reading this shit for real.

>>5397863

Yes yes I know about the problem of induction. And the fundamental theorem of calculus shows how only an approximation of the truth can be achieved in any give situation.

I was typing quickly.

>>5397908
>And the fundamental theorem of calculus shows how only an approximation of the truth can be achieved in any give situation.

10/10

>>5397908
>And the fundamental theorem of calculus shows how only an approximation of the truth can be achieved in any give situation.

I beg your what.

>>5397768
>myerrs briggs
Disagree with your opinion on Myers-Briggs. Every personality test is an extreme oversimplification. There is no way all people can neatly fit into one of sixteen categories. But, I don't think the strongest proponents of it would make that claim. It is a very rough indicator; it can be helpful, in a general way, in dealing with other people.

>>5397908
Philosophers and scientists agree: you're a pretentious idiot.

The world over thanks you for this tremendous service of finally bringing together the humanities and sciences in common disgust for you and your posts.

>>5397908
>And the fundamental theorem of calculus shows how only an approximation of the truth can be achieved in any give situation.
U w0t m8?

I rely on science but I love and enjoy Philosohpy.
When are we going to have a Philosophy board?

>>5397989


Our understanding of any given phenomenon relies on us measuring it with precision that gradually accumulates as the number of differential slices we chop it into grows.

We understand phenomenon in terms of space and time, concepts we invented, and we use the rules of calculus which govern how to measure changing quantities in every field of science as an important tool.

The fundamental theorem of calculus shows that measuring a curved line cannot ever be done with a hundred percent accuracy. You can only gradually approach full accuracy. So too is our understanding of reality.

Our understanding of physical phenomenon involves breaking the physical phenomenon down into sub-phenomena, which we usually regard as somehow more fundamental to reality.

But when will this breaking down end? The word "atom" was meant to mean "indivisible" but then we discovered the subatomic world.

Our understanding is always a work in progress, and it involves the categorization of phenomena into sub-phenomena.

>>5397983

I've been called pretentious before, but the people calling me it never tell me why they have such disgust for me or why they disagree with me.

They just lash out, and if I point out this behavior they lash out again.

Tell me, why do I disgust you?

Simply calling me pretentious won't make me stop, and doing so is something I regard as pretentious. It simply tells me "I don't like your ideas, I think they're snooty, so I'm going to disregard them rather than refute them so you know why you're wrong."

>>5397835

Read A History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russel, an Atheist and a supporter of the scientific method, when you're done dismissing it because you like to have a singular focus in life.

Science is an empirical philosophy. It arose out of philosophy. Knowing the history of philosophy and the history of important concepts in science is important to understanding science better.

>>5398013

Even better, read A History of Philosophy by Father Copleston, the Catholic who intellectually buttraped Russell on air.

Probably has to do with how much competition there is in the field. Many people want to be philosophers but there's few positions, so only the best candidates end up getting in. Probably high IQ = educates himself to be a better candidate.

>>5397979

>Disagree with your opinion on Myers-Briggs. Every personality test is an extreme oversimplification.

Right, and you're smart enough to know that.

So you take any results they may present with a grain of salt.

But at the same time, the same intelligence which caused you to know that they were oversimplifications is the same intelligence that caused you to be curious about WHAT THEY ARE in the first place.


They are interesting schemas for keeping tack of the way people react to certain situations.

It's an approximation, like EVERYTHING WE HAVE EVER ACHIEVED WITH KNOWLEDGE.

That is why I said what I said about the fundamental theorem of calculus, which everyone then ridiculed. I like using simple truths to keep arrogant people in line when they start dealing in harsh ultimatums.

It's who I am, they hate me for it, but I bet I make them think for at least a few nanoseconds more, and I see value in that.

I'm glad Economics has all that intellectual support.
Too bad the scientific method in Economics takes so much fucking time.

>>5398018

Russel covers the papacy and the history of catholic philosophy in an unbiased way which I'm sure the catholifag you're rooting for would've never done.

>>5398008
>The fundamental theorem of calculus shows that measuring a curved line cannot ever be done with a hundred percent accuracy.
Again: U w0t m8?
There's no approximation in calculus, the approximation has to do with reality, not with the math, the math is perfect within his axioms, it doesn't suffer our blindness in approximation.
Nice work discovering warm water though, talking about our precision with measurement.

>>5398041

>There's no approximation in calculus, the approximation has to do with reality, not with the math.

The math was invented to measure reality. Consider it's purpose and how well it fulfills it, man.

> the math is perfect within his axioms

And I'm the one being regarded as the metaphysicist, here?

Define perfect, and why the axioms fulfill this definition in your mind.

Calculus is used to approximate changing quantities. Time and space are divisible into phenomena based partly on how we decide to divide it and partly on the development of technology to facilitate our division. We could not confirm the cellular world or the atomic world until very recently in history. This was due to technological development.

>>5397895
By all written accounts, he was truly as you described; a chill dude.

He wrote an autobiography called "My Own Life" and it's like 3 pages long.

>>5398053
Even if the math was invented for that purpose, it doesn't mean that it suffers of the same problems within reality, the concept of limit is not just an 'approximation'.
The approximation is made when you use that to describe something real, that suffers the approximation problem not because of our math.
The language is perfect, it's just that we are not very good using it to describe the physical reality with the same precision.

Perfect means that everything is derived from axioms with logical precision, there's no approximation, so if logic, the foundation of everything, is considered a basis for reasoning, then it's perfect in his own. If you don't like the term 'perfect', use another, the concept is that there's no approximation in math and your claim, written in that way, is nonsense.

Anyway, i understand what you wanted to say, but that's just discovering warm water.

>Life sciences
>listed separately from biological sciences

What the fuck is going on there?

Why is the average verbal SAT so much lower than the quantitative score?

>>5397727
Philosophy is just about the most important field of education anyone can go into. It defines our social structure, our political systems, our economic systems, our ethical concerns and even helps direct our science. A society without philosophically trained individuals would be an awful place to live. I love science, I love art, and I love philosophy. We need to foster all in order to progress as a species.

>>5398107
because this is america, reading is for faggots

>>5398117
I enjoy philosophy too.
However, devoting your career to studying it and not doing anything else is guaranteeing you will never be anything more than a useless consumer. And studying it as an undergraduate without planning to go into it as a career is wasting the tens of thousands you spend on tuition.

>>5398081

My original point though is that science actually operates by the rules of calculus.

That is, our present understanding is always an approximation which will be replaced with a better model, better notation for expressing that model, better technology for teaching how to understand that model, better methods for disseminating that technology.

I'm not "discovering warm water." I'm just pointing out the moderates wherever I see the extremes.

I just don't like people who act like our present understanding of the universe cannot possibly be dethroned, or that our methods cannot possibly be improved, or that the way we do things doesn't effect how they get done.

>>5398130
I don't think it would be right to call a philosophy major a "useless consumer". First of all, philosophically trained individuals usually don't value material wealth; in fact, most go out of their way to not be consumers (i.e. most are socialists or communists with very little compassion for people like neo-liberalists). I don't see how economic prosperity should be an argument for whether a subject is worthy of study. I just don't understand this divide considering the formality that philosophy has adopted since Frege.

>>5398130

Philosophy is not important as an academic field.

It is important as somethign you do whenever you do something important.

If you are performing science, you should be mulling over the philosophical implications of how what you discover might be used.

If you are a politician mulling over information about how new knowledge in physics could be applied to weapons-making, you should be philosophizing deeply about what you do, rather than assuming you're on the right side automatically.

>>5398149
Consumer of every thing the society offers him without giving anything back.

>>5398154
You are joking, right? Did Shakespear not offer anything to society when he wrote his tragedies? Did the Greeks not offer anything to society when they founded the fundamental governing system that is implemented in every country around the world? There is more to offer the world than iPhones and fucking electric tin openers.

>>5398154
Also, are you trying to make an ethical argument for why someone should not study philosophy? Is this not utterly laughable to you?

>>5398028
I didn't read what you had written as carefully as I had thought. I saw "Myers-Brigs" next to "astrology" and jumped to a wrong conclusion of what you had written.

Tl;dr: Sorry, I was a dumbass :)

>tfw wanted to be a history teacher
>tfw didn't do it because I thought I'd be happier with more money
>tfw working an office job thats 100k a year
>tfw hate every moment of it

>Philosophy
>Average SAT: 1228, 82nd percentile
>Average IQ: 129, 97th or 96.5th depending on 15 or 16 SD
http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-Composite-CR-M-2012.pdf

SAT scores and percentiles are fairly constant over the years. Maybe a variance of 5%.

Were these IQ sources self reported or something?

>>5398154
>Consumer of every thing the society offers him without giving anything back.

This is laughable. By that concept of "giving back" a garbage collector is more valuable than an experimental physicist.

>majoring in home economics

I hear it's a good preparation for law school. Bwahahaha!

>>5398364
>I hear it's a good preparation for law school. Bwahahaha!

I'd say English would be better. Physics would be a great choice for someone who wanted to do patent law.

>>5398387
Maybe. I can't think of a lot of patents that a Physicists's expertise would be required for (other than, say, perpetual motion machines) that an engineer couldn't do better.

>Education
>110 IQ

sounds about right...

>>5398387
Physics/math will teach you logic and good habits for deduction.

English will teach you some literature and how to talk pretty or something, I dunno.

>>5398292
>tfw in college starting on my physics degree
>tfw not sure if I want to get a teaching credential to teach at high school later on or see what jobs a physics degree can get

I want to make money but teaching seems like something I would enjoy doing...fuark

>IQ officially tested between 100 and 110 across the various subcategories at age 17 (22 now)
>mfw I did poor on the math section of the SAT, good on the reading, and great on the writing
>mfw I wanted to go to school for Physics or computer engineering

What do I do with my life now /sci/? I love science I'm not cut out for artsy stuff.

>>5398907
>What do I do with my life now /sci/
Go study Physics or Computer Engineer.

>>5397851
go fuck yourself

do some tastey logic- lepore

>>5398902
You're a freshman. Don't worry about it now. You'll have a better idea in a year or two, and it won't be too late to get teaching credentials.

I don't mean this to sound derisive, because it isn't meant to be, but you've only just begun being exposed to the subject. Ideally, you could make this decision after your junior year once you've worked through classical mechanics and E&M, probably with a very light intro to QM and General Relativity (you'll probably cover special relativity sometime in your freshman or sophomore year reasonably well, as it's not that difficult). Then you'll have a real idea of what the field (excuse the lame pun) is like. For right now, work on mastering the basics, even though the first two years of the physics major are notoriously dull, you need it to understand the cool stuff.

IQ isn't really an accurate measure, everybody has their own strengths in certain areas. Some people may be really logical and seem smart but may be lacking in emotional awareness, some people may be really expressive but may lack in self understanding, IT"S DIFFERENT, it really is.

>>5397727
>"IQ estimates"
Fucking really?
>SAT scores
>SAT
Most worthless scores ever, those tests are too easy to be indicative of anything other than how much you studied during grade 10.
>intended college major
This is so stupid, Physics & Astronomy would obviously be highest since only students serious about their academic future would even know what it is.
Everyone that thinks they "suck at math" would what deem Philosophy the best academic path, most of them will switch majors once they realize how worthless modern Philosophy degrees at most unis are.
Economics is, as usual, filled with all the more or less intelligent passionless money whores.
Engineers, as usual, filled with future dropouts that wrongly believe language and communication skills aren't necessary.

Please. They want to study philosophy precisely because they aren't capable of the rigorous logical reasoning needed for mathematics and subjects based on mathematics.

Instead they can study philosophy and a bunch of other wooly essay subjects and use their verbal intelligence to practice empty rhetoric.

>>5398907
real life isn't about science or art unless you want to be an academic.
And with an IQ of 100 that isn't realistic.

if you've managed to cultivate good people skills then you can get a normal job at a company working with clients and you might be good at that.
PEople like you who can't really solve problems or understand new concepts quickly can still have above-average people skills, and there are a lot of niches to success with that.

>>5398941
Yeah no, I have awful people skills. And to be fair I think I average closer to 110. There's like 10-15 different categories for IQ each giving their own score. I don't know where my average IQ is exactly but I assume it's somewhere around 107-108. I'm on the autism spectrum btw.

What kinds of jobs would be good for me if I can't do what I'm interested in and I'm not very social?

>>5398938
Which is why I switched from philosophy to physics.

>>5398907
Chem wants you.
Bio wants you.
If you can pull Cs in Calculus, then you'll be fine because you don't need anything higher then integral calculus.

>>5398350
We need both.

Enjoy your educational dichotomy

I'm a bit sad that Hume could never read On the Origin of Species

>>5397908
lol

>>5398902
Do what you enjoy.

I love the fuck out of history, love learning about it, love everything to do with it.

I thought I would be better off making more money even if I had to do something I hated to make it.

I regret that choice so much, follow your dreams, do what you know you'll enjoy not what makes the most money. Money =/=happiness.

>>5398970
No matter how much you "love" history, if you did study that you'd be much worse off and dumber than someone like me who is majoring in physics and math.

Liberal arts are pointless and only stupid frat faggots and teens study them.

>>5398993

Sometimes I can't tell whether /sci/ is trolling or not.

>>5398993
>History
>Not important

You realize history is a core subject in schools for a reason right?

It's on the same level as Science and Math.

>>5398944

Get into programming. You can program some great stuff as long as you're persistent, and apart from learning faster or doing really hard stuff I dont think intelligence is very important

>>5398638
>>5398861
To sit for the "patent bar" an attorney is generally required to have a STEM undergrad degree .

>>5398861
>English will teach you some literature and how to talk pretty or something, I dunno.
Yes, you don't know

>>5398938
>They want to study philosophy precisely because they aren't capable of the rigorous logical reasoning needed for mathematics and subjects based on mathematics.
I'll will concede that a lot of people go into the liberal arts because they don't like/aren't good at math but that does not mean they are not good at logical reasoning.
>>5398948
>>>5398350
>We need both.
That is what I was saying. "By THAT concept..."

>All those perfectly good minds wasted on philosophy
More like all those dumbfuck diss philosopher.

>>5397851
Seriously??

>>5401093
More like
>Everyone has the capacity for being a douchebag, yet not everyone has the capacity for being cheritable. Therefore we should design society after the likely event of people being a douchebag more than the unlikely event people are selflessly charitable.
And don't you dare fucking say government is somehow charitable when none of the humans that make up the government are.

>>5399035
It's not a core subject in many countries.
It's part of the humanities. Importance is subjective, grouping things into "levels" is childish nonsense.

What does it MEAN when one says "philosophy?" Is what we call philosophy really to be? To be or not to be? Is that really the question? Or is life more than that which we see? Therefore God exists.

>>5397727
>Other Humanities & Art
>above physcial sciences, engineering, electrical engineering, and chemistry

>Religion & Theory
>above industrial engineering

Oh wow, how does that feel?

>>5399171
I'm welcome to being told what an English degree will give you that's good for a Law program.

>>5401097
As a charitable, full of empathy man always helping whoever I can I spend 4 months in jail and I can tell you society IS designed for douchebag.
Someone killing hundreds of people for money is a hero because that's understandable see how many cash he made, someone beating some cop ass to protect a homeless clandestine is a criminal because "omg he use violence instead of doing nothing like everyone else, what a monster!"
How and the funniest part, in jail when I tried to kill myself, one of the prisonner helped me, outside noone never helped me...

>>5401125
wot