/sci/ - Science & Math

2 weeks till FAA

Starliner OFT-2: will it work

>>14490442
Yes
The next one will explode with no survivors, destroying the ISS

>>14490415
All these DAMNED EARTHERS

>>14490415
we will have officially entered the golden era of space exploration once the first rocket launch to not be reported on by the media happens.
Elon often talks about wanting to make starship launch in a similar frequency to a passenger plane, and a passenger plane flight rarely receives news coverage unless it's Air Force one, or Elon's plane
I imagine the first unreported rocket launch will be well into Spacex's Mars program, dozens of crew missions already, and hundreds of cargo flights. Most likely a tanker flight to a cargo ship carrying uninteresting cargo like solar panels or crew rations. With multiple tanker flights every day in the period leading up to the hohmann transfer window to Mars, the half dozen sites or space youtubers still bothering to pump out weekly launch updates by coincidence miss this one, after all they've been covering this kind of cadence by SpaceX for years now, so it was bound to happen, maybe something more interesting distracted that week like SLS's first manned flight or something

>>14490452
Luv me earf, ate earfers, simple as

Roscosmos

>>14490453
SpaceX will go bankrupt because Biden will stop Starship program.
New FCC board is now democrat leaning, which means Starlink program will be scrapped.

>>14490445
Look, it was an option of either brainwashing them with the dying Shittle program, or them being propagandized by the dogshit remnants of the Soviet space program. Pick your poison, brother.

>>14490538
Uh huh.

>>14490554
Mark my words

>>14490570
Marked and screencapped

>>14490570
fr fr no cap?

>>14490452

are we still waiting for environmental approval

>>14490591
Fēowertyne niht

>>14490588
All hail Terra, the cradle of man! All heretics whom deny the sanctity of holy Terra must be purged.

>>14490536
>Roscosmos

Sfg is le... asleep!

DO NOT press the brake with your left foot

Black hole sun, won't you come and wash away the rain?

>>14490662
Go to bed Hullo.

>>14490542
there were other options, better ones, there still are

>>14490668
Maybe in the timeline of a more courageous Mosley, or one where Commander Rockwell was not assassinated. Unfortunately, we are stuck in the timeline where the options were between two faggot regimes run by bankers who want a stable peace to share the pie. Now it’s up to some generational-wealth-elite to BTFO all the other factions.

>>14490415
FTS Archive
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KCJBL632oieD1r6JOh_5Eg9NTcf_-hH8?usp=sharing

New stamps, updated categories
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/151dypw3XAaHxiPwaE_ohK8637LrBobEm?usp=sharing

Have they said anything about the Polaris Dawn EVA suits? If they're aiming for a mission in 6 months there must be some ideas

>>14490415
fug that's a kino artwork

>>14490764
Mcp prototype, courtesy of MIT.

What is it about SpaceX, Tesla and Musk that generates so much shitty Youtube content? Look up anything related to them on Youtube and you'll find a gorillion channels pumping out clickbait

>>14490784
Most famous person alive at this point

>>14490784
and instead of youtube recommending the quality content that exist about him like scott manley...

>>14490668
kek'd

>>14490784
IMO there's 2 reasons

>1) crypto related scammers
We see that all the time. With the shitty livestream on youtube, or spam on twitter. Its gotten bit better lately on twitter. Possibly because of Musk becoming the owner might mean he might find out who's behind these activities.
>2) possibly a nefarious group intending on stopping real engagement with SpaceX/Tesla/Musk
Musk's primary mode of communication with his followers/fans is with social media, so the spams might be there to poison the well

>I am not crazy! I know the FAA switched those numbers.

Why are they still expanding Boca Chica with new bays/buildings if they are denied a second launch pad, as well as the infinite delays to testing? Feels stupid to continue building up the site if they can't use it to fly from.

Roberts Rd will be completed before Boca Chica at this point, the tower is mostly completed too. Maybe the ships/parts built in Boca will travel the canal to the gulf to Florida?

>this is the highest resolution image ever taken
Delightfully counterintuitive

>>144908
>they are denied a second launch pad,
Except that's not true.

>>14490900
But it is true. SpaceX had to scale down their project because of environmental license issue. So now they're forced to go barebone testing license only.

Musksisters... esghound is celebrating the ruination of our internet daddy Felon Tusk right now. Supposedly Twitter is about to destroy his entire fortune. Is it over? Have we lost? Has newspace been killed?

>>14490906
It's still under review, nothing is certain yet

>14491005
What does a man gain from doomposting? What has he gained from such pointless faggotry?

>>14491006
The barebone is under review, it may or may not even pass. Let alone a full scale dual launcher full launch platform.

However if barebone passes without significant issues, it could be upgraded to a full scale launch platform, but thats farther down the line.

>>14491005
ESGhound blames Elon Musk personally for the last mass shooting.
The man makes his money by discrediting Elon Musk. It is in his financial interest to make you distrust me and to make the market distrust him and to drive activists and regulation against him.

>>14491035
>distrust me
>me
Hey Elon, send me bitcoins, bastard lasagna

>>14491044
Okay first you need to send me 100 bitcoins and I’ll send you 1,000 back

>>14491005
Esg is not reliable, he is a massive musk hater so even the factual studd he might talka about is insanley skewed

>>14491005
>>14491035
Here is your (you) leave please.

>>14491160
space is over

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1526542262989209600

>>14491202

Okay, so yesterday we were 2 weeks away, now I have to wait only 13 days, right?

>>14491260
Only if you want to be disappointed

UFO
https://youtu.be/aSDweUbGBow

>>14491294
It was Venus.

normal countries:
>we are sending people to the moon

burgers:

>>14491302
cope

>>14491309
Do you have no idea how dumb your posg is?

>>14491309
So you're saying no men will be landing on the Moon?

>>14491294
>Gayliens. Probe. My. Anus.
I won’t lie, if I was an alien with my own spaceship and crew, we’d also beam up, give LSD to, and anally probe some primitive life forms in the ass for shits n giggles.

>>14490588
>design patch
>order several thousand
>wait two months
>patches finally arrive
>the tip of the finger is thousands of miles too far west

>>14491309
>some other country apart from the US sending people to the Moon
did you also see Halley's comet crashing there?

>>14490784
Phil Mason has made over $600,000 from YouTube clicks alone. Shitting on Musk is very lucrative.

>>14491260
it is and has always been 2 weeks away

>>14491322

>>14491205

>>14491363
Absolutely cannot stand that nasally challenged cunt

>>14491379
in the previous pic
> need second launch system
an alternative to SLS? or am i misunderstanding something?

>>14491388
You mean second launch platform? That's Mobile Launcher 2, required because congress said so, not even NASA wanted it.

>>14491379
>provided hundreds of millions for NTP development
Wait when did this happen?

>Nelson: we’ve got the only big-boy rocket in town.
lol
lmao

>we're gonna do different version of cost plus going forward
kek

>>14491404
>SLS
>Outer system exploration
no

https://spacenews.com/diu-selects-nuclear-powered-spacecraft-designs-for-2027-demonstrations/

>The Defense Innovation Unit announced May 17 it selected Ultra Safe Nuclear Corp. and Avalanche to develop small nuclear-powered spacecraft for in-space demonstrations planned for 2027.

>>14491395
oh platform, right
i thought i was taking crazy pills, no way would congress let go of the pork
so this is just more pork, as is usual

>>14491388

>>14491411
lol

>>14490776
Reminds me of lots of the space art from the 60s and 70s. It was a great era for that type of thing.

>>14490804
AKA, how to give nightmares to the Range Safety Officer.

>>14490776
If you're interested, the author is Maciej Rebisz.

>still doing cost-plus
>SLS only big rocket in town
It's over

>>14490877
IIRC, Musk has mentioned the possibility of BC being only for R&D while orbital flights (and beyond) launching from Florida and other sites.

https://spacenews.com/uzbekistan-woos-starlink-oneweb-to-bring-satellite-broadband/

Uzbeks want SpaceX to open a Starlink division within Uzbekistan

>what about jobs program for future

>>14490415
sxsxsxsxs

>>14491452
It's good know the government there is supportive but don't see the need for more than a sales and service office to handle accounts there. Doubt Starlink would consider going manufacturing or research in Uzbekistan. Having an office with locals to do installs, repairs, and to deal with account/performance issues does make sense.

>>14491470
They want a local office for services

>>14491404
SLS is real
Starship is not

>>14491404
Its true. SLS is the one rocket NASA owns

>>14491493
Starship could launch before SLS, they might even launch twice

>>14491397
2018 or 2019 I believe.

>>14491502
It's Dragon VS Starliner all over again.

>>14491472
What does that mean? Starlink covers most of the globe. What "service" would the local office provide beyond dish installation/maint and account service? The article mentions learning how to use the service, which is a pretty basic task.

>>14491507
If it's Boeing, valves are blowing.

>>14491493
We have a commercially available heavy lift vehicle, and it has launched more times than the government one.

>>14491511
Local people speaking local language, dealing with local laws, and local infrastructure.

The gist of is that with Starlink, they can have US space com access. Which if the Russians or anyone else tries to mess with, will have to deal with the US satellites directly.

>>14491516
>We have a commercially available heavy lift vehicle
Let's be very honest again.

>>14491502
we could launch your mom before then but no astronaut would ever get in her either

>>14491507
No, it's Falcon Heavy VS SLS all over again. Never forget that

Starlink launch tomorrow morning @ 6:30 (Florida)

>>14491558
rude and no way could you launch my mom

>>14491421
this is the last ones

>>14491594
yeah but your mom could definitely launch the earth if she jumped

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/nasa_fy_2023_volume_of_integrated_performance.pdf

FY2023

>List of milestones for FY 2023
>Complete the HLS Option A (SpaceX) propulsion transfer flight test.
>propulsion transfer flight test
Starship going nuclear confirmed.

>>14491615
>Starship going nuclear confirmed.
never

>>14491413
>Ultra Safe Nuclear Corp.
not sure if it helps, but a solid attempt

>>14491657
kek

>>14491597
thanks for posting these

>>14491657
>give any invention an innocent name and people won't panic

>>14491562
Imagine the embarrassment of SLS getting beaten to orbit by FH and then again by its successor from the same company.

>>14491388
>Absolute best case scenario: Launch in August then don't launch again until 2024
Holy shit, we're screwed.

>>14491309
It should be a transwoman

>>14491723
no it should be a BIPOC* transwoman**

R8 my autistic pet project.

I was brainstorming an idea for a fully reusable ultra-heavy launch system that combines ideas from the SpaceX Starship and Lockheed Venture Star. Unlike the Venture Star, the system isn't a true SSTO; the orbiter is assisted by two strap-on boosters that self-recover by propulsive landing.

To speed up development, I would opt to have the engines for the boosters and the orbiter share turbomachinery.

The complete stack would be 105 meters tall and thus compatible with existing launch infrastructure.

My goal is to get 500 metric tons to LEO in a 10m x 10m x 50m payload bay. I pretty much just picked the payload bay dimensions and drew everything else around it.

>Starship in limbo till SLS launches/explodes
its intolerable wtf

>>14491753
pssssttt... hey kid, I think you design it to use conformal tanks

Starlink BUSTED

>>14491773
again?

>>14491457
Sex

Can we please have eugenics and massive-scale genetic engineering on Mars? I’m tired of man being held back by restrictions on technology

>>14491615
This probably means switching to the waist landing engines.

>>14491597
>tennant of commercial stations
Actually based desu, commercial moonbase when

>>14491758
Already way ahead of you

>>14491805
Be the change you want to see. Start simple by practicing both concepts on rodents.

>>14491404
I hate politicians and senator administrators so much it's unreal
Direct conversion of my hate to electricity would render fusion obsolete as a power source

>>14491753

>winged orbiter
>105 meters

You'd need a 50 mile long runway just to land that thing.

>>14491839
He should just give it engines on both ends. There, carrier-landable via retrothrust. No more runway bullshit required

Reminder that Musk raged at Estronaut for even implying that Starship is a spaceplane.
It is confirmed NOT a spaceplane. There is no future for spaceplanes.

>>14491873
You could literally land Starship like a spaceplane for the same mass penalty as propulsive landing. Spaceplanes are fine if you make them big enough.

>>14491882
no they dont you obnoxious shill
planes not matter the type will never get into space
NEVER

>>14491805
>here bro, here's your genetically engineered super man

>>14491882
Over-complication is a killer to rapid-reuse. The final starship will have two fins, the final booster will have two grid fins. Landing gear can be delegated to stage zero. Hell you will be able to one day assembly a spaceplane in space using starships, but there is no future for spaceplanes.

>>14491886
Black Horse could do it

>>14491805
The best system is a simple one. Bottom 10% least intelligent people get sterilized. That eliminates nearly all problems that could normally arise with a eugenics system.

>>14491894
>Has an iq of 200
>has a stature of 10ft
>has muscles reinforced with meme-nanotubes
>bones are hollow yet mineralized with exotic bullshit nanomaterials
Yeah, I’m thinking the future is Martian.

>>14491905
>>>Martian

>>14491753

>booster engines
>7,000,000 newton class full-flow-staged combustion cycle
>methalox

I don't know if you're aware of this, but this alone would be a MASSIVE undertaking. 7MN is just a cunt hair below the thrust rating of the F1 engines on the Saturn V. And you want to use no less than eighteen of them?

>>14491909
Yeah because they’ll do it before earthers can (faggot laws and such). Also, I have reason to believe they’ll have an extra inhibited chromosome to prevent earthers from creating dysgenic bastards through rape of captured martians.

>>14491916
Yes.

>>14491902
>spaceplanes…it's not like flying to space in a video game
>former SpaceX employee breaks down the door
>ACTUALLY…IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME

>>14491448
>>14490877
if the FAA's owners try to kill BC, the Texas gov will probably step in to apply counterpressure
Starbase as a proper launch site would make them fuckloads of money and prestige
they aren't going to let that slip through their fingers because some jews in D.C are ass blasted at Musk's twitter games

I love you guys, even tho nothing is happening :)

>>14491903
define intelligence

>>14491916

Well the alternative is slapping 150 raptors on it and hoping you get your plumbing right.

>>14491940
You know he got high fives from his buddies at the bbq later

>>14491946
Yes, that's the one problem that remains—getting a robust and accurate system for measuring intelligence that can account for environmental factors. It just depends on how stringent your "good enough" standards are.

>>14491946
The best way to measure it is by the person's SPM - shitposts per minute

>>14491753

Interesting. NASA has been pushing the concept of nuclear thermal ferries for interplanetary manned flight.

With a 50 meter payload bay, your design could find use deploying an entire transfer vehicle in a single launch instead of having to assemble it in low orbit.

>>14491948
That's a much preferable undertaking

>>14491939
The next time there's a friendly government in charge, maybe the thing to do would be to sell the site to the Space Force and then have Space Force lease it back to SpaceX on a century long contract. Being legally a military base would provide many advantages but the 100 year lease would mean operations couldn't easily be disrupted the next time a hostile government is back in control.

>>14491946
Dumb people are impulsive and don't understand math or money. Offer every 18 year old $25,000 on their birthday to get permanently sterilized if they've made it to that birthday without having any children. Some idiots won't take the money and some high IQ will take it but you don't need 100% ideal acceptance of the deal for it to do its work. You just need more morons to take the money than intelligent people.

>>14491768

Not quite. I went with a triple-hull profile with the payload bay sandwiched between 2 rows of propellant tank with a 3rd set behind it.

I thought it would be a simpler layout than the V-shaped arrangement of the Venture Star.

>>14492001
This here; making it voluntary avoids a lot of the ethical concerns, and $25k is honestly cheap compared how much idiots having too many children cost the government via assorted welfare programs.

For me its the SHADO TSTTLI Lunar Module
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz-Udh2rPw0

>>14491903
Why is this thread populated by edgy teenagers?

>>14492050
Where are the edgy teenagers?

>>14492050
edgy teenagers website i guess

>>14492050
Sounds more like Jack Welch.

>>14491753

>when you want to launch your mom's dildo into orbit

>>14492001
That might actually work, you have to incentivize thw smarter ones to get more kids though (a culture change would be best, but idk how that can be accomplished)

>>14491903
just create a new super race to rule over us and the rest of it will take care of itself

>>14490415

I wish we didn't have to worry about environmentalist psychopaths, but they are going to want to "make a statement" after losing the fight with the FAA. They'll want to make a big statement, very big.

>>14492001
This is a really good idea. But only in our current system. When we stop pussyfooting around with busywork jobs, embrace automation, and implement a UBI, that doesn't really work anymore. As I was typing that out I reconsidered. It might actually work better in that scenario because someone who would choose what is at most a couple years of free money they already get in exchange for never having kids is almost certainly going to be stupid.

>>14492127
ESG Hound is already grasping at straws to find his next "SpaceX is doomed!".

>>14491805
What's the point of eugenics if you have genetic engineering?
On a similar note genetic engineering really is humanity's only hope if the current mutting of the world continues. There's only so many dysgenic citizens a country can handle before it collapses

>>14492128
Well to pwople that are living in benefits (which ubi would basically be, but with no strings attached and actually incentives to go to work as you dont lose the benefits/ubi) and are completely hand to mouth with zero savings/investments, a few year lump sum of cash would be quite attractive

Spaceflight?

>>14492141
This is one thing I don't see people talk about enough.
Everyone always brings up how niggers are genetically different (especially that one gene linked to violence or whatever), but what if we just took that out of them? What if we just made them productive and upstanding members of society?
>>14492144
Genetically engineer the environmentalists to love space.

https://www.diu.mil/latest/powering-the-future-of-space-exploration-diu-launching-next-generation

>“Bottom line, chemical and solar-based systems won’t provide the power needed for future DoD missions,” said Maj Weed.

Nuclear is the future, we cannot let China get ahead.

>>14491886
Does this count as a space plane?

>>14492150
You're just having a naziboo circlejerk

>>14492150
>What if we just made them productive and upstanding members of society?
they'd hate us even more duh

>>14492153
No, that counts as a joke.

>>14492160
>we don't live in the Sino-White alliance timeline

>>14492152
mah weed

>>14492141
actual eugenic advocate groups just focus on providing abortion services in black communities

>last thread had the least replies in over 1,5 years
>threads constantly on page 2
it's over for /sfg/

and to think people were spamming for a space board a year ago

>>14492173
Punished /sfg/, a general denied their starship launch

>>14492029
>>14492001
This won't work at all, because you already see this happening. The problem is that way too many women will get sterilized because they very susceptible to propaganda and it will just be low IQ women that can't/don't pay attention to current trends. Smart women today go and get a job so that THEY can pay for their OWN sterilization.

>>14492141
Genetic engineering is eugenics, if you state that eugenics is merely the selection of positive traits or genes and the deletion of negative traits or genes

>>14491202
>$26B
most of that is going to SLS and ISS unfortunately. I wish more went to planetary science.

>>14492173
>last thread had the least replies in over 1,5 years
How do you know?

>>14491753

Come back when you have ISP calculations for this contraption.

>>14491956
If only there was an accurate system for measuring intelligence, some kind of "intelligent quotient" if you will...

>>14492194
common sense

>>14491805
only the Jew gets to eugenicise his genome. Its not for us goys

>>14492196
>It just depends on how stringent your "good enough" standards are.

>/sfg/ - Eugenics and Social Darwinism General

>>14492188
Eugenics involves the forces sterilization, or selection of mating. Essentially removing free will from people. With genetic engineering parents can still see themselves in their children, but without the parent's bad traits or with improved IQ or general good health.
Eugenics and genetic engineering might have similar outcomes but they are very different ethically and both very difficult to implement

>>14492173
>last thread had the least replies in over 1,5 years
That is only because the last thread had the least amount of off-topic replies than any /sfg/ thread in recent history since the spammers and shitposters either got banned or were too weary to start anything after the thread before that one was a complete disaster. The content was higher than average it and it had the same amount of IPs that we usually get(~100).

>>14492210
What happens when everyone chooses to make their kid 6'3" and 200 IQ and then in a single generation everyone becomes like that?

>>14492210
>Eugenics involves the forces sterilization, or selection of mating
No it doesn't. Those are tools for eugenics, but Eugenics doesn't have to be that.

Gene editing to remove dangerous disease is eugenics, but its not "remove free will."

>>14492164
the chinese view, and have always viewed, the rest of the planet as subhuman barbarians destined to live under chinese rule
right from the earliest days of the chinaman, they've always regarded themselves as the center of the world, the Middle Kingdom
the fact that those same "barbarians" have backhanded them innumerable times is the source of the infinite bitter ass rage intrinsic to the chinese race
any alliance would inevitably involve them scheming and backstabbing everyone to get on top

>>14492213
Are you trying to imply that's a bad thing?
You'd probably see a rift in society from the non geners and geners, but you'd also see that in a eugenics society. If you don't have one of them humanity will just stagnant. Or take the route of cyborgs

>>14491413
>Avalanche Energy has developed a device called an “Orbitron,” which utilizes electrostatic fields to trap fusion ions in conjunction with a magnetron electron confinement scheme to overcome charge density limits. The resulting fusion burn then produces the energetic particles that generate either heat or electricity, which can power a high-efficiency propulsion system. Compared to other fusion concepts, Orbitron devices are promising for space applications as they may be scaled down in size and enable their use as both a propulsion and power source.

Fusion propulsion? Isn't that kind of a big deal?

>>14492222
Maximizing height would be detrimental in the long run, since it would just slowly push the threshold for being a manlet higher and higher. Genetic arms race that would benefit nobody (the same percentage of people would still be manlets) and would only increase resource consumption

Improving senses and intelligence makes sense though as it's not a zero-sum game

>>14492237
There is an ideal height though.

>>14492127
Fuck the beetles, boil them, mash them stick 'em in food

>>14492240
Yes but it's "slightly above average" and if the average goes up, so does the ideal

>>14492245
I mean from an objective utilitarian viewpoint, not a "how to get sex" viewpoint.

>>14492235
Sounds like bullshit

>>14492249
Objectively both men and women were all the same height, but it's not like anybody wants that.

>>14492235
Not even EM drive tier

>>14492244
Finally someone gets it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDA3DKhYsF4

>>14492152
That's such a stupid and disastrous policy, it could only come from a government that is more concerned with filling their ranks with "people" like this than actually being effective. China will just spam cheap chemical, solar, or laser powered craft and solar powered directed-energy weapons which would quickly wipe out a much smaller US nuclear fleet.

>>14492263
Reminds me of that OC drawing with the Chinese spy hiding near Starbase

>>14492254
>Objectively both men and women were all the same height
wut, hominids are all sexually dimorphic with males being bigger

>>14492273
>China will just spam

China cannot spam sats above LEO.

>>14492290
Why is that?

>>14492297
Launch cadence of rockets that can deliver sats there.

>>14492302
It's only a matter of time before China rips off Starship, they're just waiting for SpaceX to do all the hard work before threatening some chink engineer to give them all the information on it. Maybe they'll make a three stage version so they can reach high energy orbits without refueling.

>>14492316
They still havent succesfully copied falcon9, it will take a while before they are able to copy starship

>>14492316
"eventually" is a long time, lets wait until they are flying rockets that are not powered by copies of Soviet era engines they bought from Ukraine

>>14492263
>tfw no cute bug-catching ubg gf

solarcucks lose again

what horrifying vistas of Mars might Perseverance unveil?

>>14492367
It's funny to see constant complaining about solar on Mars, when you know damn well that InSight would've launched years later if it as using an RTG

>>14492367
>retirement
talking bout euphemisms

>>14492367
Kek, that's so shameless.
>>14492325
Maybe but they'll benefit from leapfrogging partially reusable rockets since at their current cadence having a Falcon 9 clone wouldn't be that much better than their cheap & shitty expended rockets. What does Space Force have besides Starship? They're going to put a stick through their spokes by pursuing NEP and NTP. The former doesn't have the thrust for quick maneuvers and the latter doesn't have the delta-v for inefficient maneuvers. They would be fine for the outer belt but as the first entry into military spacecraft? Come on.

>>14492367
Guess we'll need to spend billions to build another with a non functional drill again aha
t. JPL

>>14492377
Space Force wants craft that can refuel and maneuver relatively quickly in cislunar space, with long loiter times. Think the X-37 in spy sat mode, but much further away from LEO.
>they've even considered solar-thermal propulsion
>literal steam rockets

>>14492388
a non function arm would be great for the fetch rover. think about it.

>>14492367
In terms of spacecraft that have successfully landed on Mars, is it fair to count InSight as the biggest failure of the bunch?

>>14492388
pay up goy, its for "science"

big moon bros

>>14492372
>InSight would've launched years later if it as using an RTG
And it would also have a lifespan longer than a mayfly.

>>14492410
And cost thrice as much

i love spaceflight

>>14491882
>bro just add 50 tons of wings and control surfaces all covered with heatshield its the same as burning 10 tons of fuel with engines you were gonna bring anyway

>>14492415
mmrtg is provided for free by NASA

>>14492396
>1965
>immigration act and birth control pill
Gee I wonder why general labor starting getting paid less

https://youtu.be/Kd4nmO222i8

We
Are
Going

>>14492462
NASA spends 109 million on each MMRTG, that is the cost.
>>14492410
That's myopic, InSight didn't fail because it used solar, it failed because NASA only required a limited design life so Lockheed or JPL undersized the power system and they didn't add any dust mitigation technology. They could have done the same thing with RTGs, sizing it just so that they work for a few years before diminishing in power enough that the core functions cannot be maintained but unlike blaming everything on Martian weather that would provoke a reaction and JPL wants to get more nuclear contracts so they would be shooting themselves in the foot.

>>14492481
however that is not counted in the mission cost as isnt the launch cost.

>>14492421
Why is doge blue

>>14492481
>NASA spends 109 million on each MMRTG

No they don't.

>>14492489
Yes they do.
>This analysis results in a fairly similar 2015 normalized cost for the production and deployment of an RTG— approximately $118M for the GPHS-RTG and $109M for the MMRTG.
>Note that development costs included herein for the MMRTG do not include costs from NASA staff or facilities for their development efforts—they only include the amounts costed by DOE and DOE contractors
https://inldigitallibrary.inl.gov/sites/sti/sti/7267852.pdf

>>14492367
Land a second lander next to it with a little dustbroom on the end of an arm.
Actually, jokes aside what's the reason they didn't add a windshield wiper? That can't be too hard to engineer a solution. Shit, how about a little tank of compressed air? You'd only need one half-second puff every few months to blow off the dust, it could extend the life of solar powered landers significantly.
Is NASA retarded or am I?

>>14492396
https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

I thought this was required reading anon.

>>14492481
>we have purposely built him wrong. as a joke.

>>14492533
I think it's quite clear.

>>14492372
And it would've launched years later if they had built its solar systems to be able to cope with this.
What's your point?

>>14492539
>trend starts 6 years before
Insightful chart chap.

>>14492509
The manufacturers are simply not incentivized to create landers or rovers with longevity. NASA itself often wants these programs to end since as they drag on they offer limited scientific value and they're spending a lot on the management teams. People would be up in arms if they shut down a billion dollar lander for no reason but they've seen the Martian, they know about the dust storms with hurricane force winds and all the other bullshit put into popular culture so they won't blink when the death of something gets blamed on the weather instead of intentionally poor design.
>Shit, how about a little tank of compressed air?
I think that may not be ideal with the low atmospheric pressure. I want to see them try a small vibration motor stuck under tilted panels.

>>14492500
>$94 million over 9 years to fabricate a single RTG

Fucking cost plus contracts man.

>>14492539
>I think it's quite clear.
qrd

>>14492549
>I think that may not be ideal with the low atmospheric pressure
wrong
>>14492553
>$94 million
with cost as low as this I wonder why they even bothered with solar for Juno

Thoughts on nuclear propulsion?

The Pentagon seems to be interested

>>14492553
The NRC gets their cut too - everything from database oversight to radioisotope handling licenses. To my knowledge, the NRC is the only regulatory body that is directly funded through licenses issued to the industry that it oversees.

https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1805/ML18054B309.pdf

>>14492553
If they continue to go down this route I would like them to switch to Americium-241. They would still find a way to make it cost way too much money but at least the materials are relatively cheap and it would be <2 W/kg with Plutonium-238 anyway so it's hardly an area where mass autism is that great of a benefit.
>>14492563
Juno would require 436 million worth of RTGs, that's almost half the total mission cost.
>>14492568
Not fake, just gay.

>>14492568
I think it's based

>>14492577
based on what?

>>14492558
Expand the labor market, it'll drive down average wages because the new ((women)) aren't as well paid.

>>14492575
>Juno would require 436 million worth of RTGs, that's almost half the total mission cost.
the mmrtg also produces heat for the spacecraft. And it always produces electricity. You can charge you battery and then use it when instruments demand it. Use extra mass budget from removed panels to get bigger antenna for comms.

>>14492568
NTP is the most capable form of propulsion for cislunar space.

https://youtu.be/SmFb-4KVG4M

>>14492367
Couldn't they retract the panel into original shape and then open it up again, clearing the dust from it? Its insane to me that systems are building to only move one way when involving power generation.

They are setting up the narrative https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kbg4y/scientists-warn-of-significant-climate-effects-of-frequent-space-launches

Why would you guys want eugenics? Look at the government, do you really want those retards to create a new race?
>everyone is a nigger tranny
>max IQ is 80 to level the playing field, anything above is white privilege
>gym bros are right wing assholes so no muscles
>gestation takes 5 years because the FAA is reviewing comments from your neighbors and relatives

Brave New World is mandatory reading

>>14492583
>yeah it adds 50% to the total price, but you can use it as a kettle :)
what

>>14492599
Please don't bait.
>>14492583
Despite the much higher cost 'nuclear Juno' would mass about the same if not more. As I recall most nuclear powered spacecraft still use RHUs rather than rely exclusively on the RTG waste heat. 4 MMRTGs would mass 180 kg, solar panels assuming only 100 W/kg at 1 AU would be 140kg. I don't know the maximum amount of time Juno stays in Jupiter's shadow but even 12 hours worth of energy storage would just be 21 kg assuming 250 Wh/kg.

>>14492627
JIMO would have used a helium-cooled reactor, not an RTG bank. It would have been 200 kWe. It's an entirely different class of mission from what we got with Juno.

>>14492618
reminder that methane has 30 times the greenhose effect of co2

>>14492627
>1 AU
theres your problem

>>14491903
The remainder of the bottom 50% would still outbreed those with IQs above average. I don't think it's a good idea, but you could sterilize the bottom 90% - 95% of men and it would at least have a hope of increasing average IQ.

national team on suicide watch

>>14492078
Captain Obvious here. Pay smart people for every kid they have.

>>14490415
Does anyone have that Wernher webm with the "corruption of a god-given ability" quote and/or know the source? I haven't been able to find it and I want to sample it.

>>14492657
Good thing they burn it then, you wouldn't want it getting out of the rocket and warming the global.

What will Lucy find?

>>14492684
big rogs

>>14492579
nuclear reactions

>>14492421
Why is the dog blue

>>14492662
Juno gets 435 W at Jupiter and the panels would instead be 4.35 kg if I didn't account for the reduced sunlight. Solars moggs RTGs at 1 AU.
>>14492643
Do you know the mass of the reactor? I want to do a comparison.

>>14492704
Why wouldn't he be? If you were smart you'd be blue too.

>>14492680
What does methalox leave behind when burned?

>>14492668
>The remainder of the bottom 50% would still outbreed those with IQs above average.
And? It results in a continually increasing average IQ.
>but you could sterilize the bottom 90% - 95% of men and it would at least have a hope of increasing average IQ.
Oh, so you're just retarded.

>>14492620
kek

>>14492718
The sweet scent of pine and a sense of satisfaction.

>>14492711
Depending on the reactor/power conversion configuration, anywhere between 7 - 11 tonnes for the entire SNPP.

>>14492718
earthers

>>14492635
Go back to whence you came

>visited LA this weekend
>could see the falcon 9 booster from a good distance away
it was visible but smaller than i imagined

>>14492732
no

>>14492718
Purple

>>14492750
Only post cool spaceplanes, not gay ones
Examples of gay spaceplanes: that thing you just posted, any clip from For All Mankind

>>14492627
>Please don't bait.

What bait, it has 2-3x the ISP of the best chemical engines but unlike electric propulsion (image related) it has plenty of thrust to overcome gravity losses in cislunar space.

>>14492671
Grumman lander can't get senpai to notice her

>>14492367
all this would have required to fix is a fucking air compressor, a small tank and a hose running to the end of the arm

>>14492410
and the drill still wouldnt work :)

>>14492720
>It results in a continually increasing average IQ.
You would get a continually increasing average IQ if you had a pool of immortals and repeatedly killed the bottom 10%. I think your claim requires more assumptions on the relationship between average IQs in different generations.

However, even without any interventions average IQ scores are rising anyway, so the whole discussion is pretty fucking stupid.
>retarded
Guilty as charged

>>14492770
imagine the tiling on a shuttle with internal hydrolox tanks, they would've taken years between launches

>>14492771
>average IQ scores are rising anyway
Flynn effect has flattened off and genetic load is increasing. If you are not pursuing eugenic outcomes you are allowing dysgenic ones
http://wasdarwinwrong.com/korthof97.htm

>>14492367
>has arm
>doesn't bring a brush attachment
IHATEJPL

>>14492671
>pictures aren't to scale
i hate this

>>14492671
Looks like the northrop lander has an airlock?

>>14492671
lockheed's is wearing a mask now

>>14492671
so national team officially dead?

>>14492723
Thanks. So a 7 t 200 kWe reactor would be about 29 W/kg. A 1000 W/kg Okeanos-like power sail should be feasible and that would be 37 W/kg at Jupiter. The 'solar JIMO' would mass about just 5.4 t. Both systems would be ambitious as a next step in any outer planetary mission.
>>14492757
> it has 2-3x the ISP
That's really not that great. Laser thermal would have performance at least equivalent to gas core NTP but it could be powered by a relatively simple solar array for fission reactor.

>>14492848
or*

>>14492671
is that... BIG alpaca?

>>14492671
Drawfags, assemble!

Since apparently news isn’t going to be posted unless I post it

>>14492848
>Okeanos-like power sail
An Okeanos sail designed for 200 kW at Jupiter would be a 8km x 8km square. Ambitious is putting it lightly. Folding up that fucker to fit into a fairing would be a hell of an origami operation.

>>14492877
>>14492848

Scratch that. I'm retarded and fucked up my unit conversions. It's 1.6km x 1.6km.

>>14492872
So sad that it can't even claim higher total thrust over the Raptor anymore. Embarrassing, even.

We. Are. PRINTING.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP2mrT6Jg2s&feature=youtu.be

>>14492872
feels like i been hearing this same sentence for 3 years now.
Loving the weasly language
>((preparing)) to receive
>first ((flight)) engines
>((acceptance)) (((testing)))
>((prior to)) delivery
way too many fucking words to say "we dont have shit, maybe next year"

>>14492893
Especially because I believe post HLS starship will be on raptor 3 and by the time humans get to mars I expect it to be on raptor 4.

Nobody likes SpaceX, to be quite honest

>>14492894
yawn

>tuesday
>elon interview pt2 day
>radio silence from everyfuckcock estronaut
alright, I'm cancelling my discord subscription

>>14492904
It’s amazing how bad he actually is at his job despite being successful. Shows that people prefer earnest incompetence to professional bullshit and disinterest

>>14492847
Not yet. It was already known that at least some of the Nat Team was working on their own landers for Appendix N (what this slide is about, and not binding as far as the next bid goes) while still considering NT. Northrop Grumman said so at the very least. Also, BO's lander there still has NT branding on it and was shown before.

>>14492894
>major proonter stage 2 test a day after abl did one of their own
race race race

>>14492860
damn right it is

>>14492894
meme company whose only purpose is to secure funding for their prooonting tech

>>14492914
They’re launching big alpaca from a starship?
Man I have got to read these proposals kek. Have the requirements been posted yet? Where are we at

>>14492914
>lanches on starship
Um, based?

>>14492914
>transparent Starship

>>14492923
some of the tanks have been omitted for mass savings

>>14492848
>laser thermal

Yeah it just needs a constellation of megawatt laser satellites to power it, totally feasible and a better option than NTP.

>>14492917
I'm not even sure of the source. Just found them on twitter as part of some NASA presentation.
Don't think the actual proposals will be submitted for a few months.

https://youtu.be/Kd4nmO222i8
this is so stupid

>>14492929
ironically NTP is less of an escalation than megawatt laser killsats capable of melting anything currently in orbit.

>>14492914
>launched on starship
hope they win

>>14492929
>Yeah it just needs a constellation of megawatt laser satellites
You wouldn't need that many, a single laser array could support multiple departing spacecraft. They would have much more delta-v than solid core NTRs and each wouldn't require their own reactor.
>>14492954
Kek, true.

>>14492960
YEET

>>14492954
Disagree.

>>14492914
Alpaca chads...are we back?

>>14492960
>You wouldn't need that many, a single laser array could support multiple departing spacecraft.

Being unable to thrust when the array is on the wrong side of the Earth is a deal breaker for military applications.

>>14492996
redeemed

>>14492671
Alpaca is the objectively correct architecture for a dedicated airless body lander
Don't believe me? Try it for yourself in KSP

>>14492975
>>14492960
>>14492848
Laser thermal is incredibly mass restricted, that 1000kg to Mars vehicle becomes a percent of a percent of that if they do anything but aerobrake.

>>14492877
>>14492892
>It's 1.6km x 1.6km.
I give you that it would be large but OKEANOS was designed it fit the H-IIA or H3 fairing. Starship could fit a much large sail. A MW scale power sail could require orbital reassembly but it would be fair easier to manufacture than a nuclear reactor so they should be cheaper to produce.
>>14492997
No need to put them in LEO.

>>14492939
WTF is this

>>14492718
CO2 & Water vapor

Wow

>>14493027
Where is this from?

>>14493027
Not as nightmarish as I thought but Artemis IV is gay
The mars shit beyond sample return won’t be final lol. No nasa program survives a decade of planning and “funding” unscathed

>>14493036
The NASA video has been posted twice already.

>>14493059
Why would I watch non-spacex content?

>>14493027
the fun part about their mediocre mars plan is that spacex will be producing more than enough starships to give them the one or two they'll need for their mediocre effort without impeding the proper colonial mission

>>14493073
>>14493027
>everyone assumed NASA would only make it to Mars with international cooperation
>instead its with commercial SpaceX cooperation
I never saw it coming desu

>>14493078
NASA will make it to Mars as a small part of the passenger and cargo manifest

>>14493017
>A MW scale power sail could require orbital reassembly but it would be fair easier to manufacture than a nuclear reactor so they should be cheaper to produce.
JIMO was designed with technology that has been understood for over 50 years. A delicate megastructure that requires orbital assembly outside of LEO and technology that doesn't exist yet has a 0% chance of being cheaper. Solar power is great so long as 1) you're in orbit and 2) you're in the inner solar system. Otherwise, you're doing backflips trying to a donkey into a racehorse.

>>14492914
I really hope Dynetics wins

>>14493027
Funny thing about Mars that most dont understand is it's fucking EASY to live on Mars compared to engineering the rocket to take you there and land. SpaceX could probably workshop and complete a hab within 6 months if they wanted to. kinda like how they're workshopping an EVA suit right now, or how they made that bubble for dragon. fucking fast, simple, dumb shit compared to raptor

>>14493027
>1st 4 crew mission to lunar surface
>Artemis IX

>>14493013
>waaah aerobraking is OP
Laser thermal propulsive braking requires another laser at the far end.

>>14493027
>>14493095
Its insane how much GATEWAY holds back progress on the lunar surface

>>14493088
I wouldn't go that far
its still a fucking extreme environment, and this shit has to be extremely reliable since spare parts will be at a premium
remember, they aren't building a base, they're building a city
Lots of shit built means lots of shit that can break

>>14493096
>waaah aerobraking is OP

?

>>14493097
How does the Gateway station hold back progress on the Lunar surface?

>>14491309
Space will be sacrificed to prop up the empire.

>>14493111
look at all the flights dedicated solely to Gateway, we land onthe moon once then not return for like 3 years, 3 YEARS with Artemis VI

>>14493111
wastes a fuckload of deltav to reach and leave a tiny shitbox that doesn't contribute in any way
were gateway an order of magnitude bigger, it could be debated
but since the congress critters very clearly have no intention of ever doing that, it will just be a miserable toll booth deserving of a rock blasting it apart

>>14493166
jim was content to ignore gateway for early missions. cryptkeeper nelson brought it back :/

>>14493013
>a percent of a percent
According to this it would reduce the useful payload mass to <6% of the original 1000 kg if it couldn't aerobrake on a 45 day transit to Mars. It just needs to be scaled.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2201.00244.pdf
>>14493085
JIMO would have had a reactor 10x the size of any ever demonstrated in space when NASA hasn't built anything more complex than a 1 kW Stirling reactor in decades.

>>14493166
At least if it fails to provide any meaningful benefit to lunar exploration they can repurpose it as the first true interplanetary SEP spacecraft to visit an NEO or something and be slightly more useful, just get ever closer to Mars

NRHO orbit is so cucked too

>>14493151
>look at all the flights dedicated solely to Gateway

Just Artemis IV.

>>14493176
and if anyone at NASA dare say
>but but but....continuous com coverage
Moonlink. nuff said.

>>14493166
>that doesn't contribute in any way

To Lunar landings no, prepping for deep space habitats yes.

>>14493192
lmfao pardon me, i thought we were trying to do moon landings

>>14493194
Artemis has always been both Moon and Mars landings.

>>14493192
Huh that's funny :) That's exactly what I was told ISS would do.

starlink launch in 5 bongs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQTgX40R-IQ

>>14493197
Gateway predates Artemis, knucklehead. And SLS was built to go to Mars. Moon? we've been there! Until it wasnt, we then pivoted to an asteroid. Then it was to go to Gateway. and then the Moon again.

>>14493200
>LEO
>deep space

anon I...

I can just see it now bros
>Gateway ops/construction takes away a huge chunk of funding/resources that could be used for lunar surface ops
>Starship will be neglected by NASA after Artemis 3 instead of used for setting up a robust lunar surface base/infrastructure
>because Exploration Systems Mission Development Directorate (Boeing oldspace gravy train) controls the Artemis side of things now not SOMD
>NASA will be fucking around with Gateway 90% of the time instead of landing and exploring the moon, wasting the opportunity that Starship provides
>will probably want HLS 2 to do the second moon landing which gets delayed and we end up with 2 people returning the lunar surface for a few days in 2025 and then no further human lunar landings until like fucking 2028

bleak

>>14493217
Go back and read NASA + Congress's justification for the most expensive boondoggle in history. You'll laugh your ass off

>>14493219
and if you don't believe me just look at this ambitious manifest

>>14493207
People have memory holed that when Artemis was first announced everyone thought it was going to be about going to Mars and was disappointed when it turned out to be a Moon landing walk before we run.

>>14493229
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/fy23_nasa_budget_request_summary.pdf

>>14493229
>>14493219
>posts graphic where the first two Lunar landings are SpaceX

>>14493238
>and we end up with 2 people returning the lunar surface for a few days in 2025 and then no further human lunar landings until like fucking 2028

Doesn't change that fact

>>14493175
You're right in that JIMO was an incredibly ambitious step up in power plant scale. But we've also been building gas reactors since the mid 50's. The first vanilla solar sail was launched in 2010, years after JIMO was conceived, and it was only 14 m x 14 m. A mega OKEANOS would be 13000x times larger than IKAROS and would also need to be a solar panel. This is an incomprehensibly large step up in scale and complexity. Something like this can't be stuffed into a Starship like a wadded up handkerchief and can't be assembled in LEO due to atmospheric drag and debris risk. All to make a spacecraft whose power output will be sensitive to its orientation to the sun and will need to operate in the shadow of Jupiter and its moons.

>>14493205
Do starlink launches even count anymore, man?

>>14493205
Who cares about this shit, NASA is GOING TO THE MOON

>>14493262
While I don't make launch threads for them anymore, it's still a launch. Every launch should have at least the stream link posted for anons

>>14493270
Was being facetious more than anything. I'm glad the launch fatigue has gotten to the point that I'm long past waking up at 4 AM to watch a Starlink mission.

>>14493275
No one wakes up at 4AM to watch a cargo plane take off or a cargo ship leave port

>>14490453
>once the first rocket launch to not be reported on by the media happens.
Given the pure autism of the spaceflight community, you will probably end up with one or two people keeping a record of every single launch ever. NSF will probably maintain a permanent camera pointed towards the launch pad.

Also I just noticed that this post is from yesterday and we still haven't staged. /sfg/ is dead etc

>>14493275
Does anyone want to read official US military fanfic about the future of space colonisation and warfare? And I do mean fiction

>>14492793
>>14492615
Why noy make the panels be able to rotate 360 degrees

>>14492675
Yeah but how do you do that without explicitly measuring intelligence and deciding on some cutoff? The point was to sidestep this whole issue

>>14493003
Please don't post the low-effort legs spread joke version

>>14493087
we all do

>>14493027
>its all coming true

>>14493283
yes

>>14493325
Astra has already succeeded in putting payloads into orbit.

>>14492735
>it was visible but smaller than i imagined
>t. anon's gf

>>14493351
kek

>>14492671
lockheed martin looks like apu

Wait so anyone can get together and send stuff to space for 5.5$/kg? Even i don't know like send some 100g shit(not literal I hope) for 500$. Or is rideshare only for countries and science colleges, not for some randoms?

So uhhh when will starship fly again? it's been more than a year

>>14493363
never, hope is lost

hi i just got back on sfg, it's been 2 weeks like you said. im ready for that laumch now!

>>14493283
sure

>>14493362
5.5k$/kg*

>>14493252
>This is an incomprehensibly large step up in scale and complexity
I agree that the step up in scale is too great and the 200 kW power requirement would be nearly impossible to meet if work began on it right now but the mission requirements of a doomed nuclear proposal is a hard thing to try and hold it to. More realistically a 5 kW OKEANOS like mission would compare favorably to a Kilopower demonstration mission. Sails of hundred kW at Jupiter and that fit within a single launch could be achieved in say 15-30 years. Power sails will probably get developed anyway for missions near the asteroid belt or closer to the sun where it's much more favorable to solar power.

>>14493362
rideshare has minimum size requirements because of the mounting ports

>Elon Musk says SpaceX's huge Starship rocket will 'hopefully' launch on 1st orbital flight in May
>check's date
>it's mid may already
oh no

>>14492671
Remember what they took from you

>>14493375
CGI?

>>14493375
i like the tposing astronauts. reminds me of moonbase alpha

>>14493373
1) Make a some kind of box which can be mounted to this port
2) Fill the box with stuff you want to send to space
3) Profit!?

>>14493380
your funky port is part of your mass budget
spend carefully :^)

>>14493380
This is basically what cubesats are. OreSat-0 (one of the payloads on Astra's last mission) is a demonstrator for an open source cubesat platform.

>>14493310
Why not? That's how the legs will look when its fat arse thumps down anyway.

>>14493027
>Artemis VIII
>nuclear propulsion demo