/sci/ - Science & Math

Just insist on rigor and let the data speak for itself. Don't delude yourself, shill for the scientific method and not for your or their narrative.

You can't. It's same as explaining to people what meditation is. If you think you are right and have truth on your side then have no fear to speak it.

>>12613810
I don't have a narrative per se. I just find the sentiment of,
>Ha! Dumb Facebook boomers think the vaccine will give you autism. Those trumptards don't care that tons of people are dying
as being extraordinarily uninteresting. We have a project in which we're required to select a prevalent myth regarding vaccines and to either substantiate it OR state why it is incorrect using citations. Our professor told us to comply with whatever the majority of publications insist because "the majority of scientists believing something indicates that it is true". As a sidetone, I'll add that this professor was anti-mask when the MSM/government was anti-mask and cited "increased humidity around the mouth" as a reason why masks were dangerous during COVID. Naturally, she has reversed her sentiment to be coherent with the NPC narrative.

>>12613840
If vaccines cause autism that should be in the studies. Just make sure the (((studies))) are not curated. Its likely there will be reported side effects, the problem is these doctors believe in white lies, they think its better to report 0% side effects than 1% side effects. They want to "avoid panic".

>>12613860
To be clear, I don't believe vaccines are causal for autism. I was just stating the type of strawman that they use whilst pretending that there is zero reasonable opposition to their understanding.

>>12613799
Here's the reality. Vaccines work. The whole herd immunity argument people give is actually stupid. They're saying you should get vaccinated to protect those too weak to even get a vaccine. Which would be valid if it weren't for the facts that
>Vaccines aren't perfectly safe
>Vaccine backfire with SAVs is incredibly low, on the order of 0.01%
>Vaccinating hundreds of millions of people yields over 10,000 SAVs, including the debilitating GBS
They're telling me I should literally expose myself to a risk to protect them. Well, how about they expose themselves to the risk of dying to protect me, huh?

I'm young and I'm healthy, so I don't get vaccines. If you're in a compromised population, get the vaccine. If you're too weak to even get a vaccine, then you deserve to die.

>>12613860
I mean in private doctors will non-chalantly say haha my friend everything has risks and side effects. Try to measure that and to compare it to the effects of no-treatment. You can do it for many things, for instance nitrates in meat cause health problems but also prevent bacteria, there must be studies (of low quality) measuring the relative damage strengths of both options

>>12613880
This is precisely how I feel. I think the problem is the disconnect between medical science and public policy. Physicians have the objective of minimizing COVID deaths at all cost, and politicians trust the (((science))). This has lead to people who are entirely risk-free against COVID being locked in their homes, rather than simply isolating the vulnerable population. The virtue signalling of infinite empathy has doomed us all.

>>12613880
Consider here
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-we-know-about-the-side-effects-of-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine
The Pfizer vaccine is reporting rates of SAV less than 0.5%, which is far higher than the generous result I gave of 0.01%. OP, here's what you need to do. Track reputable studies that have a list of SAVs (ask your prof if source is reputable to 1) cover your own ass and 2) stick it to him when you cite them and he can't do shit). Do this in writing, of course. Don't mention SAV until you hand in your paper. Blindside him.

Then find the typical SAV rate of a vaccine. Project how many SAVs you expect to see. Ask ethical questions whether it's working having x-thousands now with SAVs, especially in populations who didn't need the vaccine in the first place.

>>12613915
In addition, any science which isn't coherent with the (((science))) isn't science, but rather, dangerous misinformation.

>>12613880
there is no arguing with the science until you start fucking around with death stats..

globally barely more than suicide even with the adjusted rates of "covid case deaths" whatever your take on them is.

but sure lets change the definitions based on emotions and not observations. espesially when it comes to long term results and consequence
>think of granny..

still curious how samsungs CEO would've survived this for example.. he will live forever with koreas pension funds.. if he doesnt it kills more than covid in a month.
hasn't been seen since 2014

Stop fighting for evil, vaccines is nothing but paranoia. Vaccines weaken the immune system.
If you want to kill yourself with vaccines and meds, fine, but do not shove those down the throat of the rest of us.

>>12613799
baxter pharma
pharma settlements etc..

you have to quit
theres no path to victory here.

>>12613935
shut the fuck up.
specific case requires specifc treatment.
not all vaccines are bad. get polio fag

>>12613922
The hurdle that I must handle before the stage of creating the project is convincing 3 of my blue pilled group members to agree on the topic. Discord meeting in 2 hours...

>>12613947
sars vaccine swine flu contamination.

>long term studies rush human experimentaiton via trial and hippocratic oath, conflicts of interest or keep quiet.
you think you'll bring it down from within or something?

>>12613929
Consider this super scary chart. OMG! But then you start asking questions. In that age demographic, there are 7k COVID-19 deaths. Yet there appears to be a 28k increase in deaths. Huh? So this dramatic increase in deaths in this young population is only 25% caused by COVID-19? Why, I am befuddled I say! Befuddled! What could possibly be going on?

>>12613799
https://stoplookthink.com/

science = gang of lying jews

>>12613799
UNMASKING THE LIES AROUND COVID-19: FACTS VS FICTION OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC
https://www.andrewkaufmanmd.com/vids/Full%20interview%20on%20London%20Real.mp4

>>12613799

>>12613799
Obviously you start off by informaing them that they are clamped, vaccinated, and circumcised. Therefore, if "ebbuhdense baste meduhsin" saw it fit to halt placental transfusion by clamping off their umbilical cord immediately, and saw it fit to amputate as much as 50% of their penile specialized sensory apparatus, what else are they lying to you about? Could it be.... that if they clamp and circumcise.... if they halogenate and irradiate... that they also... vaccinate? Could it be? Could it truly be that they clamp vaccinate and circumcise?

Realistically however I think Anon:
>>12613810
is right. It's unlikely you'll be able to covertly or overtly gain and maintain any kind of foothold, you'll be shutdown hard, and they won't get it anyway. Therefore you should stick with the science. Note the absurdity of having no saline placebo control, point them to section 13 of every vaccine insert "this vaccine has not been tested for mutagenic potential, carcinogenic potential, or impairment of fertility", and generally just go through and show how all the "Science" is actually junk pseudoscience built up by scam Rockefeller medicine scam artists, with involvement from Jews as well, whom don't accept vaccination themselves by the way.

Vaccination is a scam. That's why they clamp, vaccinate, circumcie, halogenate, irradiate, poison the food water and air, and so on. So that you will fall for and blindly believe in "society", "culture", and all of their scams. They see you as chattel and cattle, and the more you use the medical system, the more they covertly harm you, the more you become their cash cow property. Clamp, vaccinate, circumcise. But one manifestation of the same ABSTRACT trinity, a template which plays out through the eras.

For more on the clamp, see:
>>12607095
and
>>12601876

Talking about "vaccines" in the abstract is a pointless debate and anti-scientific. "Vaccines" as a general class are not good or bad. Individual vaccines are good and bad, and we determine this through empirical evidence.

If Vaccine A is safe and effective, there is no rational reason to assume Vaccine B is safe and effective just because.

I am not an anti-vaxxer, but I think the vaccine industry is largely profit driven, just like every other domain of the pharmaceutical industry. The Pharmaceutical industry has an incestuous relationship with its regulators, so we can't trust regulators as a meaningful source of truth on the matter.

Some vaccines probably are good. Most of them probably are useless but largely harmless, and only exist as profit sources for pharmas. Some of them are also probably harmful.

The issue here is that the vaccine industry is not held to a scientific standard of evidence. Very few vaccines are proven in a truly scientific way, instead they use longitudinal population data which is incredibly easy to game. Just have your statisticians toss out a few "outliers", and bam, you have your statistical significance.

When you don't have empirical data, you can't make determinations either way, and this keeps the Pharma companies happy. As long as you can't prove its bad, they get to keep making money.

>>12614059
Based and very well thought-out response. Not any of those anons, but cheers for the read, big guy.

>>12614134
>I am not an anti-vaxxer, but I think the vaccine industry is largely profit driven, just like every other domain of the pharmaceutical industry

If a person is chronically ill with say polio or tuberculosis they face a lifetime of expensive treatment to manage the condition however with a 70¢ vaccine you can prevent them from ever getting the disease in the first place.

Treatment is far more profitable than prevention and eradication

>>12614134
>Vaccine industry is largely profit driven
It's literally the least cost effective and profitable endeavor of pharmaceutical companies. It would make more money to forget vaccines and develop treatments for when you're sick. Just compare regenerons antibody cocktail vs any of the vaccines.
This whole thread is filled with LARPers who never spent one day working as a chemist or immunologist.

>>12614171
What if a vaccine can't actually prevent it. What if the vaccine causes them to be sick for life, where proper nutrition and sanitation could have allowed them health for life?

>>12614175
It's quite profitable alone, however if it can induce disease later, even moreso.

>>12613799
>with the MSM narrative
>MSM

Men who have sex with men?

>>12614175
Repeated vaccination weakens your immune system, which makes you more vulnerable to pathogens, which makes you more likely to buy more cost-effective pharmaceutical products, which boosts Big Pharma profits. Nice try, faggot.

>>12613810
This is the only way. Advocate for rigor.

>>12613799
>>12613880
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus

>>12614185
>What if a vaccine can't actually prevent it. What if the vaccine causes them to be sick for life
Cite examples of vaccine-induced epidemics with substantial supporting evidence (that means no schizo rants) and also explain why smallpox, rinderpest and (almost) polio all mysteriously disappeared.

>>12614571
>smallpox, rinderpest and (almost) polio all mysteriously disappeared.
Nutrion, sanitation, refrigeration, reduced organochloride pesticide exposure.

>>12614573
Remarkable that such diseases have been eradicated from the developing world where none of those factors are widespread. Remarkable that diseases such as Cholera and Dysentery, which are a direct result of poor sanitation, still affect 5 million people a year in the developing world.

Crazy how improved nutrition and sanitation led to the reduction in global smallpox cases from 1800 but didn't have an effect on polio until 1955 and then waited even longer until 1964 for measles.

>>12614704
You're confused about case rate trends relative to date of vaccine introduction. Look it up.

>>12614704
>wasting time talking to a schizo
Just leave 4chan and study

>>12614719
Clamped. I'm one of the few that bothers to cite my claims extensively around here.

>>12614723
You presented absolutely no evidence in support of your argument that vaccines are useless money-making scams. You have only offered shizo ramblings

>>12614832
https://pastebin.com/8qE3yBV1

>>12614723
Clamped. Evidence is a clamp on your mind. See beyond it.

>>12614875
Evidence is used to convert, convince, recruit, or alter the behavior of self or others. It is only clamped if you don't realize the function and purpose of the tools you're using.

>>12613935

>>12613799
>How should I introduce contrarian perspectives in attempt to encourage them to consider having skepticism of government activity, and to not ridicule those who are skeptical?
If you aren't a sperg, you could ask your prof to let you present something.
Then what you do is present the antivax concerns of african and middle eastern countries. This will put them in a secure state of mind, since they'll empathise with them. Then you can introduce the less conspiratorial western things like the nuclear tests in the US, or tuskegee.
Then this can open into a discussion of how do you get non-western populations to trust western medical intervention. And similarly, how do you get untrusting western populations to trust western medical interventions.

At all points, reiterate that forcing vaccinations is unethical, but that simply chiding antivaxers doesnt improve their uptake of vaccines, and that antivaxers have a knock-on problem in disease transmission (ie outbreak of measles in the US among somali immigrant populations).

The key point you need to remember is this:
If you are a sperg or react too emotionally to this topic you will come across poorly to your professor and your peers, which will cause you more harm than good.
I know its difficult for spergs to assess themselves, so consider this. Have you ever spoken to a female that most people would consider attractive, who has actually been happy to talk to you and SHE has tried to keep a conversation going. If not, then you probably are a sperg and it wont go well.

>>12613947
>The hurdle that I must handle before the stage of creating the project is convincing 3 of my blue pilled group members to agree on the topic. Discord meeting in 2 hours...

You'll not manage to convince anyone of anything if you use covid vaccine as an example, people are too dug in on their brainwashed emotional positions, maybe 5 years down the line this could work. But you can do something tangential.


Oral polio vaccine causing vaccine related polio is a better example because you can directly quote the WHO on this. And no one really cares about the world outside of the west.

Sell your idea as the necessity to be open to discussion of controversial ideas. I would suggest that you can start with using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis (also this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz_Semmelweis ) as an example that there's resistance to any idea when it's new. This is medical history so nothing controversial.

But to drive home the point that still in modern times we have the same resistance to ideas use the example of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall who did his H.Pylori experiment to prove gastric ulcers being caused by bacteria and not just stress. He did this experiemnt in 1984 and this is recent, it's within my lifetime. Barry Marshall is still alive and out there. So we're no longer in the realm of history.

Expecting that we suddenly became perfectly objective in less than 40 years would be delusional. Medical science will stagnate and people will get hurt or get the wrong treatments if we don't accept the possibility of being wrong, a bit occasionally, a lot at other times. So after introducing Barry Marshall you can use the example of Vaccine polio disease to sell the point that while vaccinations may be in the interest of public health, there's also risks associated to them, that we need to control for and minimize

>>12614932

>>12613840
I don’t understand how smart people can be so easily swayed by a media that is so often wrong. The mask nonsense most likely increased cases. Not due to the mask itself, but due to the false sense of security. There is zero science behind cloth masks against a respiratory virus. You need N95 or better the be statistically useful. But just a week of media reputation and everyone flipped. It’s like we live in a simulation and the NPCs are poorly written. Facebook science fan memes were treated in par with scientific studies. And studies tangentially related were conflated to make the case for cloth. Which is bizarre compared to the HQC reaction where no evidence was good enough and papers were heralded by the media when linking it to heart attacks. Then quietly retracted.

As for vaccine skeptics, the reason they exist is because vaccines have caused very real problems in the past. There was a tainted polio vaccine that paralyzed 164 people. There is the flu vaccine that often doesn’t protect against the year’s flu strain. And people think they got sick from the shot. And people don’t feel any more secure when they are skeptical of injecting themselves with something and the reply is mock and ridicule. The trust in media is so low that the only way to make patients feel safe with a new drug or vaccine is to be able to explain it very well and acknowledge doubt is normal.

>>12614932
Topkek

>>12614961
>sperg litmus test
I might be both a 4ch user and more specifically a /sci/ poster, but I assure you that I am quite comfortable and successful in social dynamics. Nonetheless, convincing 100 blue pilled students and a blue pilled prof that they could be wrong is seemingly unsurmountable.

>>12615001
I don't think people in general are entirely conscious of why their positions are what they are, and so they probably can't articulate them well and fall back on talking points they think are effective, but I think most people who are skeptical of vaccines aren't skeptical because of exposure to past failures with vaccination, but rather a lack of trust in the system providing them, and the people who aren't just trust that system instead.

Disregarding extremist anti-vaxxers, I suspect most of the people who fear vaccination would be perfectly comfortable using the same methodology to produce their own, if they knew how and had the materials.

That is, they actually don't fear the science of vaccines, and would trust one they themselves have vetted, but rather they are afraid of coerced injections, as they don't know what's actually in the particular tube they're getting, or if it's even a vaccine at all.

>>12613840
>>12613810
>>12613819

The best way is to level with the arguments presented against some of our vaccines. Lack of long term testing, leaky vaccines, etc.

You present the argument to the class as something to be addressed and argued against

>>12615001
This change in position was not the result of "the media", though. Dr. Fauci changed his position on masks, and the media followed.

>>12615115
I know, how vaccines are produced and I wouldn’t use most of them even, if I produced them myself. In fact quiet a few Biochemist I know have their kids running very low on vaccines, next to nothing except maybe clostridium tetani and corynebacterium diphtheriae.
I see no way to make sure a vaccine is really “clean” and I don’t think it’s good enough at imitation of real infections.
The studies on vaccines are notoriously bad. No control group with placebo, soon after the initial start, since that’s bad, because it would mean not sharing all the alleged benefits for those, who aren’t in the verum group. Often potential or likely unblinding and under reporting of side effects. On top of that it’s very hard to prove causality, if something happens.
Studies are rarely properly randomized and multi centered. Follow ups are rare and most of the money is from the pharmaceutical industry.

>>12615126
You seem to view them as unique entities. It's an apparatus that moves un unison. First Dr. Fauci is instructed what to say by (((globalists))), Dr. Fauci announces *insert propaganda*, and then the media communicates the propaganda and brings (((experts))) on their show to reaffirm the propaganda.

>>12613987
I think we need the data. Having seen credible evidence for gun and traffic related deaths somehow ending up in the COVID-19 death statistics and the guideline changes in death certification I won’t have any of these claims without sufficient proof.

>>12615066
For the vast majority of people, blue-pilled, red-pilled, whatever-pilled, it is almost impossible to convince them they could be wrong.
It is possible to get them to admit that they are wrong on something. Or to get them to state something they believe, then show them they are wrong, and get them to believe they are wrong. But even doing all this usually translates to "I was wrong about X, but I'm right about Y", or "I was wrong about X, Y, ....., A , B, C, but I'm not wrong about D".
We call these people retards, and they exist in pretty much every niche

>>12615366
Fairly certain when testing this vaccine, they mentioned control groups with placebo.

>>12615730
To my knowledge there isn’t anything official currently going on. They just did the phase 3 gene therapy study with 20.000 experimental subjects. There was a verum and a placebo group, but there are concerns over possible unblinding and they don’t make the raw data available.

>>12615126
Fauci changed his opinion based on going with the flow vs against the grain. He wants to be a media darling more than a responsible adult. I think if there was any valid logic to his sudden reversal, it was that he knew the public wasn't buying the idea that masks don't work. The "but but doctors wear masks!!" and "Asians do it and they are good at math" crowd was still buying up N95. So Fauci, who has already admitted to lying to get a desired reaction (at least twice), said "Oh, ok. Wear your little panty masks and lay off the good stuff". Just so brainlets wouldn't make N95 so hard to get for health care providers. And the media was dutifully uncritical because they saw it as a poke against Orange Man. If Orange Man was promoting masks from the start, we would have every pre-covid mask study read aloud on CNN as they mocked and ridiculed him. Even if cotton did have new found magical powers against COVID.

>>12613810
This

>>12614200
>pic related

>>12614134
>I am not an anti-vaxxer
>Just have your statisticians toss out a few "outliers", and bam, you have your statistical significance.
>implying vaccine manufacturers cherry pick their data
So you're not an anti-vaxxer you say?

>>12615820
You are a little of the track. There are people, who’re viciously pro injecting fetal bovine serum etc. and other substrates, which can’t be licensed under pharmacy laws and need a special legal niche, but do have quiet a decent knowledge about, how their actual performance looks.
You can already probably guess, who they are.

>>12615837
You've implied that vaccine manufacturers delete data that doesn't align with the goals of their vaccine trials, and you haven't denied it

>>12615844
I’m not him. So I don’t imply to speak for him.

>>12615853
very well

>>12615856
>>12615844
However I think I can guess/get his argument, he probably means he trust in the concept, but won’t pick a vaccine, if he isn’t convinced it works and only takes vaccines he believes to be useful to his individual case.

>>12614200
Alright, this is one massive dump full of shit information. I really can't be bothered to review everything said here, so I just picked a random citation to see if it matches with what this guy said.

>*** PART 2 ***
>Children who were under-vaccinated due to parental choice had significantly lower rates of emergency department visits.
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23338829/
https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1001/jamapediatrics.2013.502

If you CTRL+F that exact quote, it doesn't turn up anywhere. So, straight up, quote fabrication. Nice try /pol/tard.
Additionally, YOUR OWN FUCKING PAPER SAYS THE FOLLOWING:
>In contrast, undervaccinated children had increased inpatient admission rates compared with age-appropriately vaccinated children (IRR,1.21; 95% CI, 1.18-1.23).
Why did you remove this finding from your /pol/ dump? Was it because it was an inconvenient truth to your beliefs?

How THE FUCK do you guys take everything that /pol/ says as gospel and don't even bother to do the slightest bit of reviewing and fact checking? Jesus you guys are stupid

>>12614855
Still waiting on a response to this.

>>12615904
shut the fuck up libtard faggot

>>12615904
>Children who were undervaccinated because of parental choice had lower rates of outpatient visits, lower rates of ED encounters, and no significant difference in inpatient admission rates compared with age-appropriately vaccinated children
It’s in there and I know the study.

>>12615935
>It’s in there and I know the study.
take a screenshot of that part highlighted and post it here
>>12615921
>shut the fuck up libtard faggot
(you)

>>12615983
Second paragraph right before the end. Short before footnote 31/32.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/1558057
It’s so easy

>>12614855
>>12615919
Interesting. What response are you interested in?

>>12616006
I stand corrected, the quote is there. ("undervaccinated" vs "under-vaccinated" broke it)
But the surrounding context doesn't help your case in the slightest.

>>12616060
The surrounding part is his cope to not be shunned away and to have a chance to publish it anywhere. The two footnotes he has on this are psychology/mum health care magazine studies nothing I consider really to be of much relevance.

>>12616079
How do you refute the following then?
>In contrast, undervaccinated children had increased inpatient admission rates compared with age-appropriately vaccinated children (IRR,1.21; 95% CI, 1.18-1.23).

>>12616116
Give me the thing with the raw data and I will give it a look.

>>12616116
I already had to laugh because I reread it and remembered they admit they “identified” the children. Doesn’t sound too randomized to me and the data analysts weren’t blinded. I personally don’t really think it’s a high quality study. However even, if you trust them they basically advise you to not vaccinate your children with choice. That’s what the data implies and the rest is just them explaining it away and focusing on the kids that their parents don’t vaccinate, because they forgot about it or don’t care/can’t be vaccinated because of existing illness. Raw data and more on the methodology beyond “identified” would be interesting, but I doubt we need it. My personal guess is, if the data was biased, it wouldn’t be towards children not vaccinated by choice, so it’s probably somewhat legit.

>>12613799
Bring data in.

>>12613799
>How should I introduce contrarian perspectives
You point out that all the deathcamps were in the USSR that is famous for lying, that they also believe that Exodus is historical fact, that Germany has payed billions in compensation, that a six with six zeros is like a perfect number for people who have a great tradition of storytelling and also do gematria, that there are way more efficient ways to kill especially if you have access to the sea just put people on rafts an pull the plug like the Jacobins or if you have tons of ricin gas or just even bullets and are known for being efficient, that no-one would put ovens next to flammable gas, that so called "chambers" do indeed exist and are used for delousing clothes especially because of lice diseases like typhus which is what killed Anne, that the idea that the side which invented and produced the first ever computer and atom bomb during that short period was incapable of forging arbitrary amounts of paper documents is ridiculous, that the confessions were obtained by torture and duress and those who confessed and were killed did have children who were spared, that everyone needed a reason to make them look like The bad guys when the soviets were obviously horribly bad guys, I dunno.

>>12613799
I have been pro-vaccs my whole adult life but I don't trust the covid vaccines as they have been rushed to market with a huge profit motive and brought with tax dollars by openly corrupt politicians.
I'm not saying they don't work or are dangerous but I am saying I'll continue self isolating until the end of the year to see how things work out for the beta testers.

Feel free to use my example of someone that supports vaccines in general but has little trust in this specific case.

>>12618158
Just realized I should add that by open corruption I mean politicians accepting corporate donations, not some retarded bullshit.

>>12618158
>I'll continue self isolating until the end of the year
How embarrassing. Are you an obese retard, immunocompromised genetic-let, geriatric, or coward?

>>12618225
My dad is obese and my mum often gets pneumonia, I can work from home and wear a mask so when I help them out every few weeks I'm not putting them at risk.
Do you not visit your parents or still live with them?

>>12618234
How do your parents feel about your decision to live at least a year of your life in perpetual isolation and wearing a muzzle to accommodate their infirmity?

>>12618335
>perpetual isolation
I live with 2 other people that are isolating
>wearing a muzzle
I worked in sulfur mines long enough to not give a fuck about a paper mask, at least it isn't rubber.
>accommodate their infirmity
I value family, it's that simple. If you don't that is fine, you do you.

>>12618349
Hey - it was a genuine enquiry on my behalf. Personally, if I knew I was actively inconveniencing somebody I love during their best years (Assuming you're somewhat young); I would rather an hero than do that. Contrary to that, I doubt your father feels any guilt. The act of becoming obese is actively inconveniencing everybody around him. As far as I am concerned, if somebody is incapable of managing survival upon exposure to the flu, they are prime for natural selection. I feel sympathy for those who have genetically influenced frailties, but I would have zero guilt from spreading COVID to an obese faggot.

>>12613810
>>12613799
>When the trailer park runs out of crystal meth so all the inbred neonazis decide to spend the rest of the weekend posting racist memes and disinfomation on the internet

Go pack to pol you fucking incel losers.

>>12613840
>As a sidetone, I'll add that this professor was anti-mask when the MSM/government was anti-mask and cited "increased humidity around the mouth" as a reason why masks were dangerous during COVID.
The irony here is that the increased humidity improving mucocilliary function is being hypothesized as the reason masks seem to help, not due to filtration.

>>12616060
>>I stand corrected, the quote is there.
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA dumb faggot, you were SO sure!
now it's time for you to do the honorable thing and kill yourself.

>>12620022
Yes, he is now living in disgrace. It would seem the path of redemption is to commit sudoku.

>>12619724
Shut the fuck up libtard. You guys unironically get people killed because of your delusions.

>>12620413
Based and unclamped. These people are totally inverted.

After having already dismantled one injection lover. I would like to have somebody more educated/knowledgeable as discussion partner. My personal education/knowledge is more related to genomics,”RNAomics”, proteomics, system biology, signaling pathways, methodology, future in situ science, advanced toxicology/pharmacology, immunology, but I have started to harbor heretical thoughts about virology. So I would would be interested in discussing “isolation”/“purification”/plaque assays/in vitro methods, (RT)-PCR, in silico genome “reconstruction”,“phages”, genome of “viral” origin and “virostatics”. I hope somebody could make a good case for virology.

>>12620732
Go back to /r/science

>>12620732
Clamped.

>>12620751
Can’t go back to where you aren’t from.

>>12613799
RNa is a new tech and it needs research
Literally nobody knows what could habben
>>12613880
This and vaccines are the best we can do for now
If people are worried about autism then they should have at least three kids and ask for more investment

>>12613929
>>12613987
so you said what exactly in this post here..
was that conversational or a debate?
or are you just posting memesci and expecting it to count in discussion?

>>12614191
thats it anon. way to get the underrated point.
>this whole thing is still the AIDs conspiracy from the 80s, you cannot disprove this.

>>12621098
take it goy, my rats said everything i make is safe despite neurotoxicology reports.. so thats not good. but on the positive side..
..we basically skipped the rats with this one, so there's no problems right?

>>12615820
I'm sorry to burst the bubble of your fantasy world, but this does happen. Drug researchers are not moral paragons who can transcend the human condition and act purely moral. They are profit seeking just like the rest of us. It is disgusting and I changed careers over it.

The Pharmaceutical industry needs a major overhaul. There is systemic fraud and manipulation of the FDA safety and approval processes.

>>12622048
Commie

>>12622050
Definitely not a commie. If anything I think the Pharma industry is over regulated. The process is so convoluted and byzantine that it makes it easier to cheat. And this is by design of course, because the Pharmaceutical lobby basically controls their own regulation.

I don't have a good solution, but the current system is completely broken. Something like massive deregulation, but with increased transparency and accountability might be a good start.

>>12622062
Ancap

>>12622050
Clamped.

>>12622082
Clamped, circumcised, vaccinated, halogenated, sanitized, irradiated.

>>12622087
Circumclampifluoraccimirradiciminated. Chlorofluorbromo-circumclaminated.

Clamped.
Vegetablizinated.
Circumnavigated.

>>12622082
>>12622087
>>12622093
Gay

>>12622096
Something other than heterosexual.

>>12622099
Gay is the only thing that’s not heterosexual
Bi and pan are fake and gay

>>12622111
Hm. What about asexual, that which is without sexuality? Does this form a third state, or is it simply apart from the binary?

>>12613799
>msm
just read scientitic papers and make your own choice msm is not a rigorous group.

>>12622115
Mentally ill people without libidos or straight women who are scared of men

>>12622119
I'm inclined to think the same, though there could an organic cause in a limited number of cases.

>>12615066
wrong about vaccines being effective?

>>12622118
MSM is a circumcised group. If you know what I mean.

>>12622134
That’s racist.
Not all Amerifats eat m&ms

>>12622139
True.

>>12622128
Wrong for dismissing the skepticism of others as being "uneducated/bigotry/trumpism". There is plenty of room for nuance and understanding the reason motivating the skepticism. It's not a dichotomy.

>>12622164
It's stuff like that which made me stop bothering to talk to people. The stupidity is just incredible, they're like animals.

>>12622164
You're as foolish as them if you think trumpism a d bigotry are bad. And being uneducated means being unbrainwashed

>>12622169
I applied quotes for a very specific reason, retard. They're examples of terms used to dismiss people who have divergent perspectives. I wouldn't have used quotes if I was declaring my view of skeptics.

>>12613799
People don't go to university to have opinions. You go there to get opinions and maybe get a good job (doubtful). If you want education and discussion read published papers and try submitting some. You don't need a degree to publish.

>>12622218
>You don't need a degree to publish.
Is this true? Currently an undergrad and unpublished, but I assumed the bureaucratic/gatekeeping nature of academia made that impossible.

Remember when university used to be a place where you could discuss controversial topics in a civilized way and find solutions to problems that are out of question these days?

>>12622263
Read Brave New World and The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Technological development and the frame of discussion must be capped and tightly managed. You don't want anything getting in the way of the desired overarching course.

People don't get it. They think black, white, yellow, red, green orange and blue. Rich, poor, red vs blue, me vs you. All the while, for the most part, we're all on the same ship. We're in our various compartments and spectacle and all manner of motion abounds, but it is no matter, for the true net motion of all is tied to the course of the ship, and its destination.

"We are in the midst of a revolution; and, as is usual, those who are hurried along in its vortex are, for the most part, ignorant of the real causes that have produced the revolution, and of the depth to which the questions involved in the controversy have struck their roots downward among the very foundation-stones of the Republic.

Appeals to the nonsense of the people sometimes prove effectual; and the tendency in all political controversies is to limit and narrow questions, and to present them in a practical and empirical manner; because abstract principles, even when fundamental, do not appeal to most men with a thousandth part the force of considerations of present economy, policy, and expediency. You must crystallize an abstraction into a fact that appresses, before you can arouse a people by it.
[...]
Abstract theories of government rarely enlist the passions of the people. They operate chiefly on the minds of Statesmen. But when these theories, applied to and developed in facts, become palpable realities, then the popular heart is moved by them, and they beget revolutions."
-Albert Pike (Pamphlet produced prior to the Civil War)

>>12622274
>People don't get it. They think black, white, yellow, red, green orange and blue. Rich, poor, red vs blue, me vs you.
And to clarify, I'm not pushing some "we're all one!" and "We're all basically the same underneath!" narrative. Just the blunt facts of the natural order.

>>12622274
>Read The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

>>12622277
Have you ever read it?

>>12620732
Anybody? Maybe also discussions of Koch’s postulates (well they aren’t really his) and modifications. And antibody titter measuring and interpretation. Adjuvants and vaccines.

>>12616060
Thank you for admiting, anon. A lesser person might have just closed the tab like a skrub.

>>12620732
You sound so pedant that Buzzfeed articles look concise

>>12623884
You have to be. For example, they will claim anything to an “isolate” strangely it will never be directly ex vivo, but always involve strange alchemy, which makes any precise measurement impossible. And we all know, how the process should be including the electron microscopy and the biochemical analysis of the purified material, because that’s, what we all do with “phages”. Which aren’t viral particles, but can be better understood as bacterial “sperm”.

>>12623884
I’m going to tell some jokes to make sure everybody gets I’m not so badly pedantic, like it seems and to get the thread going.
Why do virologist call it quasispecies? Because you can’t call something, which can’t be proven to exists, a species.
What do virologists talk about, when they mention emerging viruses?
Emerging founding.
Why do virologist love the term hypervariablity?
It’s a reason for founding and a nice analogy for trajectory of the narratives they spin.
What is cross-immunity?
The reason given, why the last emergent founding didn’t kill everybody.
How do you call cell debris?
That depends on whether you are a virologist.
Let’s be honest, deep down we all admire virologists not only do they have the most friends, although many of them are emerging and imaginary.

>>12613799
Fuck I had a really good infographic about various vaccines and the dates that the disease for the vaccine was eradicated and basically all the dates for eradication were before the vaccines were widely implemented. I searched for over half an hour to find it because it's so striking I don't know what happened to it. Maybe it got deleted off my hard drive by tptb

>>12615066
>but I assure you that I am quite comfortable and successful in social dynamics
said literally zero people ever in history that were quite comfortable and successful in social dynamics

>>12625111
Was it this bullshit?

There's legitimate reason to be afraid of vaccine manufacturing as its very opaque and recent controversies have shown it to consistently deliver products that differ from what was approved. Also worth noting is that the polio vaccine was an actual disaster that caused a polio epidemic and likely created a human cancer virus as well. No medicine or procedure should be a sacred cow, otherwise you end up with insanity like Halsted's radical surgeries or STAMP both of which caused needless suffering. Safe to say most vaccines are safe but this recent bullshit with letting Moderna release essentially an untested drug into the market shows that we need to be critical of vaccines and acknowledge that they are not 100% safe under all circumstances at all times.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fonc.2019.00670/full

>>12625329
They started wearing masks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wp_PwYFMyM

>>12613915
Except covid isn’t harmless for anyone. Even if you don’t die you are still being harmed.

>>12626427
May you kindly provide a reference? All I hear about that is "we don't know what happens" from mass media. Additionally, all anecdotal evidence I have points towards them getting over it like a flu.

>>12613840
>she
who would've guessed

>>12614573
fucking L M A O, I hope you're not OP and just a derailing schizo for parroting this bull shit argument
>>12614704
based
>>12614711
>Look it up.
HAHAHHAHAHAH

>>12626481
Lung damage is alleged to have been seen by Chinese doctors whose patients tested positive for covid but were asymptomatic. That these patients were mainly elderly men living in highly polluted cities with a culture that heavily engages in smoking is not relevant.

>>12613799
it's a discussion course. and you are suppposed to "educate misinformed members". so literally do that. and use the scientific method as this anon said here >>12613810. clear all preconceptions, including yours.

think of all the mainstream antivax points that people usually raise. not even obscure ones, just the typical ones you see out there on normalfagbook.

craft your presentation in such a way that your goal is to debunk these points. using the scientific method because the best way is to use transparency and accurate information as much as possible. if you are unable to debunk them based on your research, state the limitations of your findings. then you return the question to your professor and your classmates - can they address these gaps in information to quell these antivax doubts, using the scientific method?

during the Q&A or open discussion portion (i presume there is one), simply dismiss what is unscientific. then they'll try to start thinking for themselves and maybe realize, oh you're right there are limitations/info gaps/lack of studies/inaccurate claims etc. etc. but if they can help discredit the claims, then nice, you and some other people learned something as well. congratulations you've been saved from total social isolation and being blackballed by your future peers while attaining your objectives.

>>12626591
>fucking L M A O, I hope you're not OP and just a derailing schizo for parroting this bull shit argument
Ad hominem as usual. Do you think that is convincing to him or any other neutral third observer? It isn’t thread derailing, it’s a valid hypothesis and can be argument for, by looking at „transmission“/occurrence patterns and clinical symptomatic associated with the cases. Because almost every alleged infectious agent that’s now gone/next to to gone/or now under a new label, was in massive decline before any vaccine introduction.
>I won’t look at the data.
>You are all stupid for looking at the original sources.
Thanks, you must be a great scientist.
>>12614719
Do it. For example the real transmission experiments. E.g. the Influenza transmission experiments were they tried to infected 300 people, but failed to produce a single infection.
>>12614704
>better plus enough nutrition and hygiene
Less toxins in the environment means less ill people. You are probably on to something.

>>12626787
>argument
argued

>>12626787
>Do you think that is convincing to him or any other neutral third observer?
the anon that replied originally provided ample argumentation as to why the opinion that "improvements in sanitation" and other hogwash was not solely responsible for the eradication of all those scourges you fucking bellend. I'm laughing because anyone who thinks this hypothesis still holds water in 2020+1 is beyond reachable by conventional means of argument. The only solution is mocking! I laugh at you nimrod!! HA HA HA
>was in massive decline before any vaccine introduction
Your point? Again, first world societies are one thing, but the third world (most of the world's pop) just magically got rid of these diseases w/o vaccines huh, despite shite public infrastructure? How do you explain that, Dr. Stump (Ph.D. Google University)?

>>12626897
P.S. since this a bit harsh, skepticism is fine but when your arguments are laughably incorrect I won't bother. The other anon pointed out the hypothesis clearly isn't the case for developing nations where problems of sanitation and nutrition are still rampant (where scourges were eradicated with VACCINES), and the timing of "developments in sanitation and blah blah" just don't line up with global cases dropping (small pox v polio point). Clearly the contribution is from effective vaccines, so I don't know what you're arguing. Vaccines work and are our best weapon against viruses. Provide a clear argument that is at least a little bit logically sound to refute these points and you'll be taken more seriously.

>>12626926
Vaccines might work but it requires trusting Dr. Shekelberg which I'll never do.

>>12626944
why the fuck do i bother with the retards on this site

>>12613799
>>12613840
So your project is to write propaganda? How is this helping you learn any technical information at all?

>>12626977
Because op is prob in hs

>>12626926
My challenge stands. >>12620732
Let‘s do that.

>>12626981
College is just high school with bald people

>>12627004
>challenge
hardly
>make a good case for virology
this is so ambiguous and vague. tf do you even want? Explain what it is?

>>12626481
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_COVID
>Anyone infected with SARS-CoV-2 can suffer from "long COVID" after the infection is considered to have ended, including young, healthy people,[6]
>Anyone

Symptoms mentioned there:
Extreme fatigue

Long lasting cough

Muscle weakness

Low grade fever

Inability to concentrate (brain fog)

Memory lapses

Changes in mood, sometimes accompanied by depression and other mental health problems

Sleep difficulties

Headaches

Joint pain

Needle pains in arms and legs

Diarrhoea and bouts of vomiting

Loss of taste and smell

Sore throat and difficulties to swallow

New onset of diabetes and hypertension

Skin rash

Shortness of breath

Chest pains

Palpitations

Kidney problems

Changes in oral health (teeth, saliva, gums)

>inb HUURRRR wiki bad
Sources are at the bottom.

>>12626926
>>12627004
Addendum
>The other anon pointed out the hypothesis clearly isn't the case for developing nations where problems of sanitation and nutrition are still rampant
I think you should learn to form your own thoughts. The issues in the third world are mostly there. (In the case of polio vaccine derived strain of the enterovirus as the alleged causative agent) they are basically explaining their vaccine failing away. However they have become better in some areas, so that explains, why some things aren’t seen anymore or less present.
>variola (probably referring to major)
That’s the most interesting case, but we can go into it, if you want.

>>12627107
Publish your findings instead of debating on an internet forum

>>12613840
>she has reversed her sentiment to be coherent with the NPC narrative.
>she

That is a big part of it. Women are more prone to groupthink.

>>12627033
If you are a virologist/microbiologist/bioinformatician/biostatistician/molecular biologist/geneticists or somebody with the appropriate knowledge you would get, what I‘m referencing. I want to discuss the central premises of virology. That’s a lot, but we can start anywhere.

>>12627131
>>12627119

>>12614134
>When you don't have empirical data, you can't make determinations either way, and this keeps the Pharma companies happy.

Quoted for emphasis. These people do not care about facts or evidence.

>>12613915
Had corona. Was nothing. Am fine. Jogging, surfing, partying, god bless florida. Also even if your at risk it should be your damned choice to go outside or not. I believe it was the Nazis who made science their god last. They were pretty cool though I guess.

>>12627178
Dumb Florida man

>>12627119
Certain things won’t get published. All major journals are in the hands of less than ten people. You simply can’t publish it. At best you slip in stuff between the lines for the people in the know or to make some of the more intelligent people have second thoughts.

>>12627186
So you’re saying your ideas aren’t worth publishing and peer review? Did you try?

>>12627195
Others have done it. And the data is in it‘s mostly not getting published. At the very least going against certain interests, is a career death sentence, even if it’s published somewhere.

>>12627107
>I think you should learn to form your own thoughts
I'm agreeing with him you buffoon.
>The issues in the third world are mostly there.
Some deep insight.
> However they have become better in some areas, so that explains, why some things aren’t seen anymore or less present.
Can you reformulate this so as to make it more coherent lmao
>That’s the most interesting case, but we can go into it, if you want.
What are you talking about? The muh hygiene narrative collapses when you look at correlation b/w vaccine development and the corresponding drop in cases of each of these cases. It's a much more sound case than muh hygiene/nutrition which is riddled with holes that has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread alone. for fuck's sakes read the thread
>>12627131
Why? Make a new thread then nigger, clearly no anon wants to humor le reddit skeptic

>>12627312
Stop espousing nonsense and show the double blind, placebo controlled, randomized and multi centered study that proves the advocacy of the polio vaccine. I bet you can’t.

>>12613799
honestly, don't even try. These classes, like anything in academia, is brainwashing for NPCs.

>>12627548
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/blog/vaccine-randomized-clinical-trials
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1114166/

>>12627576
t. someone brainwashed by the internet

>>12626591
Clamped and vaccinated.

>>12627791
Clamped.

>>12627794
Clamped.
Unclamp.
Reclamp.
Declamp even further than before.
Unclamp again.

>>12627799
Clamped.

>>12627803
Clamped.

>>12627804
Clamped.

>>12627577
Clamped.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

>>12627805
Clamped.

>>12627807
Clamped and vaccinated.

>>12627810
CVC'd.
Halogenated and circumnavigated.

>>12627811
Clamped.

>>12627816
Clamped.

>>12627577
You aren’t going to fool me the real study they quote is this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1622939/?page=1
And you just need to read the first sentence to know it’s garbage
>Theselection of areas in which to carry out the field trials sought
to meet the geographic peculiarities of poliomyelitis
and to anticipate the areas in which the disease would be most prevalent
>children of first, second and third grade
There goes the randomization.
>OnlytheEvaluationCenter
There goes the true double blind. Correctly they would just see the variables and not know, what they correspond to. Only after they analyzed it the blinding should be lifted.
>After careful consideration of various alternatives, itwas decided that the total first and third grade study population compared to the vaccinated second grade population would be the most criticalmeasure thatcouldbeappliedtomeasure the efficacyofthevaccine. Thiswas alsotheoriginal premise on which various state health offices agreed toparticipateinthestudy. Inobservedareas there wasagreater numberofinstancesinwhichmore thanone lotofvaccinewas usedinan area, which came about partly as a supply problem and partly fromadecisiontouse, forthethirdinoculation,lots whichappearedupon testtobestrongerantigenically
I can’t really copy from it. As you can see, but it’s some of the most hilarious stuff I’ve ever read. I bet today this would be considered a serious health treat for scientists, since because you can more likely drop that from laughter, than conclude anything about the advocacy of this vaccine. They cherry pick the data as they see fit.

>>12627822
>>12627826
Clamped.

>>12627826
>drop that
dead

>>12627832
>>12627828
Clamped.

>>12627828
Clamped.

>>12627833
>>12627836
Clamped.

>>12627826
I‘m sorry for my mobile device. Sometimes it happens I can’t even see, what I’ve written. But the issues are hopefully made clear. I strongly encourage everybody to read this stuff and realize you can’t conclude anything from low quality data like this.

>>12627841
Clamped.

>>12627842
B-B-But, it's vaccines! They are beyond reproach! A gift from the Gods themselves!!!!!!!
I
I...
I !!!!
I FUCKING love SCIENCE!!!!!
VACCINES ARE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE.

>>12627842
>>12627847
>>12627853
Clamped.

>>12627869
Clamped.

>>12627826
On page 13 they even present circumstantial evidence for the case against the infectious agent theory
>the illness appears in lower class children at an earlier age, compared to children of higher social status
Possible explanation for their cherry picking of certain grades is right there too.

>>12627873
Clamped.

>>12613799
>talking to normalfags engaged in signalling as if they're people

>>12627876
I think circumcision is good tangential circumstantial evidence against vaccination.

>>12627878
Clamped.

>>12613840
University is a mechanism designed to humiliate non-NPCs and moralise NPCs. I see few advantages to it.

>>12627576
Yeah, it's designed to make you lose if there's any independent thought and give you great marks if you inventively regurgitate the official views, whatever they are. And *you* get charged money for it. Going to university is like brain-clamp.

>>12627902
Worse, for those NPCs it's all about the connections.

>>12627884
I mean there could be other explanations, but I‘m not sure. What do you think could be an explanation? Seems like they couldn’t correlate it to population density. I would be interested in your explanation.
>clamped
Your juvenil humor could be a little more refreshing and less monotonous.

>>12627826
Gets better and better
>thatwhichwas originally announced to the states at the time they enrolled in the study, namely, a comparison of the poliomyelitisexperienceinvaccinatedsecondgrade children with the combined experience in the total firstandthirdgrades. Itisdifficulttocombinein- cidence in vaccinated and unvaccinated populations andhavea clearviewoftheeffectinthevaccinatedalone
>suchastheuseascontrolthatpor- tion of the first and third grades which signified willingness to participate, through submission of a parentalconsentform. >Thiswouldseemtobethe ideal group for comparison with the vaccinates. >Unfortunately,theaccuracyofdataonparticipation status of first and third grade children varied greatly from area to area
Basically they themselves concluded you can’t really use the data, but most still believe this is gospel.

>>12627911
I'm not disagreeing with you, I actually mean what I said. Of course everyone starts somewhere, but ultimately circumcision, clamping, and several other demonstrably harmful scams throughout the history of organized, regulated, "evidence based" medicine, definitely factor into the case against any given claim. Dumbass golem scammer once, golem scammer twice. All part of a broader constellation.

As far as other explanations, I haven't read the paper. However I would imagine organochloride pesticide exposure, lead everywhere, mercury in the water from mining operations and use of eg mercurocrome, diethylstilbestrol in the milk, sugar in the summer months, and the list goes on, could be part of the genesis of the "polio" pathology.

>>12613880
>vaccines
>work
I thought this was /sci/, not /lit/? What the fuck? Kill yourself you retard.

It's well known that naturally immune systems are split into two parts, the innate and acquired immune systems. Both of these pathways must be activated in natural immunity, but only the adaptive antibody and t-cell system '''''''''''works''''''''''''''' in vaxx, which is patently false. Vaxx also contain materials like mercury that can cause extreme brain damage and other conditions such as encephalopathy.

>>12627986
Don't forget:
>>12614855

eg:
Nonlinear dose response of aluminum.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27908630

http://medcraveonline.com/IJVV/IJVV-04-00072.php

>It's just a bit of aluminum bro!
>We know exactly what's in the vaccines, just read the label, bro!

>>12613799
>UN Report on Purple Drank shortage: "Millions could perish"

>>12628015
And it’s often the same people, who are „vegan“, because of the poor animals). Who flip out about the dangers of red meat and alcohol. Little do these people know, what’s truly in their loved vaccines. And it’s not just the adjuvants, but all the other nice stuff like fetal bovine serum (with the fetuses that need to be taken out of the mother without any medication being involved) and abnormal cells. Not to talk about the animal experiments, where the point is to show something causes illness. And the resulting need to get creative to make the animal end up sick otherwise. Some scientists get it, while others and especially many physicians are too slow to get. You can show them everything and calculate it before their own eyes, how you can’t even have that stuff in toys or cosmetics and certainly not in pharmaceuticals, but vaccines that usually go straight through all barriers, are somehow an exception.

>https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1353759214347440129
CDC seems to have pulled the plug on the vaccine early warning system after a 37 year old cramped and had a miscarriage.

>>12622277
Always worth a read.

>>12615066
>Nonetheless, convincing 100 blue pilled students and a blue pilled prof that they could be wrong is seemingly unsurmountable.

You are setting your goal too high. You aren't going to convince all of them, your goal is to get information out to the small % that is capable of critical thought. 90 students will continue being bluepilled, 10 students will have learned something that will change their lives, whether you know it or not.

>>12628321
There's a million miscarriages per year in the USA alone, almost 3k per day. Not worth panicking over yet, though I personally wouldn't be getting vaccinated if I were pregnant.

>>12628480
I kind of disagree. It’s strange for the page to go down and at a certain point in pregnancy miscarriage becomes rare. If I remember correctly, if there is heartbeat it’s already under 1 percent. In my opinion it’s concerning.

>>12628532
Also some claim it’s the second one.

>>12628545
https://mobile.twitter.com/sharpeyes/status/1353843523120979968
There seems to be a second one. Already at a point where miscarriage is seldom.

>>12628532
Isn't 37-years-old starting to get into the high risk group? I don't know any of the details, I'm just going by the fact that miscarriages aren't uncommon. Even 1% of a million is 10k, or 27 per day. Of course it should be investigated, I'm just not going to jump to conclusions yet.

>>12628679
Infertility risk is rising rapidly.
But actual risk during pregnancy in 35-39 year olds? I would guess at worst it’s slightly elevated,

>>12627986
>Vaxx also contain materials like mercury that can cause extreme brain damage and other conditions such as encephalopathy
Almost no vaccines contain Mercury and that has been the case for several decades. The few that do show Mercury contents comparable to that found in a 150g can of tuna.

Between 2006-2017 there were 3.5 billion vaccinations in the USA, of those there were only 4,153 successful vaccine injury claims. That is an injury rate of 0.00013%

>>12628679
>Isn't 37-years-old starting to get into the high risk group?
I don't know specifically about miscarriages, but chance for birth defects and complications rises dramatically over the age of 30.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_maternal_age
https://doi.org/10.1016/S2214-109X(14)70007-5

>Women older than 35 years had the highest maternal mortality ratios, and although this pattern has been described before, no previous study has reported such convincing data from such a wide range of countries.

>Risk of birth defects:
At age 20, 1 in 1,441
At age 25, 1 in 1,383
At age 30, 1 in 959
At age 35, 1 in 338
At age 40, 1 in 84
At age 45, 1 in 32

Let’s pick a random virus let’s take Rotavirus
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/22934646_Rotavirus_isolation_and_cultivation_in_the_presence_of_trypsin
Viral magic.
>This procedure resulted in virus isolation from five of five samples that contained virus particles, as demonstrated by electron microscopy
Okay it’s there, whatever you see.
>four of seven samples where virus particles could not be observed but were considered positive by the presence of immunofluorescent-staining cells in feces.
>Innoinstanceswasvirusisolated fromthefournormalfecalsamples
Can’t be found. Interesting so most of the people glued to the toilet and with typical symptoms didn’t even have something in their stool that you consider to be the virus. Inb4 it’s too small to measure, why are we able to do it with phages and why did it work with the other samples? So it isn’t there, but your test says it’s there so it’s a positiv anyway, because the IF says so.
You surely put nothing in there, which or (it’s remains) can be mistaken for a virus.
>Monkey-kidney(BSC-1)celswerecultured inEagleminimalessentialmedium(MEM)asde- scribedpreviously(3).Eachliterofmediumwassup- plementedwith2mmolofglutamine,10mlofnones- sentialaminoacids(GrandIslandBiologicalCo., GrandIsland,N.Y.,no.114),2.5mgofgentamicin, and2.5gofsodiumbicarbonate.Forgrowth,the mediumcontained10%heat-inactivatedfe
So this “virus” is so rare you can’t even find it directly in specimens directly ex vivo? Almost like it doesn’t exist in the way you think.
>extremely prevalent
>Rotaviruses are generally difficult to isolate and culture in vitro
Hmm are they rushing up the intestinal tract, if they see a virologist being on it’s tails?
I’m maybe going to continue it with something about the trypsin magic and the negativ controls (spoiler they don’t exist). Maybe I’m wrong and I have missed something like the author tries to create a paper with the fewest Rivers postulates fulfilled as possible.

>>12628849
Recent study approximated 1 percent to be reported.

>>12628860 was meant for >>12628822
And even most of the people, who report their adverse event never take it to court.

>>12628855
In the last 40+ years we've developed molecular methods to test for viruses, and now presence of Rotavirus is done by PCR, and not by cell culture or immunofluorescence.

>>12627986
>immune systems are split into two parts
Found the undergrad

>>12613840
>"the majority of scientists believing something indicates that it is true"
This is a fallacy. There were surely times when the majority of scientist were wrong. I'm not against vaccines, but this premise is just defective.

>>12628822
>Almost no vaccines contain Mercury and that has been the case for several decades. The few that do show Mercury contents comparable to that found in a 150g can of tuna.
Which is it? None or a few?

>>12628941
>In the last 40+ years we've developed molecular methods to test for viruses, and now presence of Rotavirus is done by PCR, and not by cell culture or immunofluorescence.
I know. Which is even more ridiculous. qRT-PCR doesn’t prove anything beyond some short mRNA sequence being there with a specific certainty. It doesn’t tell you anything about a potential infectious agent. The test could go for anything, because as long as you can’t get a true isolate, in the real sense, you just guess something is viral mRNA.
Today it’s all in silico fantasy and nothing real.

>>12628855
Well, if somebody is interested I will elaborate more on the negative controls and the in vitro magic trypsin (spoiler it’s a digestive enzyme), will we ever know why the “virus” gets more effective in destroying monkey kidney cells after you add it?
But let’s take a corresponding Rotavirus vaccine study.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)62630-6/fulltext
>We did a randomised double-blind, placebo-controlled, multicentre trial at three sites in Delhi
We did it Reddit. Jokes aside that’s nice.
>4532 infants were assigned to receive the 116E vaccine and 2267 to receive placebo, of whom 4354 (96%) and 2187 (96%) infants, respectively, were included in the primary per-protocol efficacy analysis.
That’s not so good.
>71 events of severe rotavirus gastroenteritis were reported in 4752
Makes 1.5 percent.
>76 events in 2360 person-years in those in the placebo group
Correct me, if I’m wrong, but that makes 3,2 percent. I think they concluded the same.
So it’s already a rather weak effect. But now let’s look more closely, they talk about Rotavirus cases, how did they measure it (probably qRT-PCR) and what about severe gastroenteritis events in both groups that couldn’t be related to a positive qRT-PCR case.
But let’s look if both groups are comparable health wise. Deaths in placebo group 17 in 2187, which means 0,77 percent. Deaths in the vaccine group 25 in 4532, which means 0,55. That’s already rather significant, hence likely you can’t compare both groups.
I think I don’t even need to get into more than the summary to know this isn’t really worth much.
Let’s look at the generous donors
>Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to PATH
Interesting.

>>12629401
>almost no vaccines
Learn to read.

The flu vaccine is the only vaccine in use in The USA that contains Thimerosal and there are several Mercury-free variants available. In the UK for example, no thimerosal-containing vaccine has been used since the 2010.

im not reading through this entire stupid thread should i take the vaccine or not???

>>12628922
Even if only 1% report vaccine injury that means the injury rate is still only 0.013% and keep in mind that vaccine injury includes anything as mild as a short term rash, cases of life-altering anaphylaxis or encephalitis are substantially lower than that.

>study published in 2003 using electronic health record databases found that after 7,644,049 doses of vaccination in children and adolescents, there were 5 possible cases of vaccine associated anaphylaxis and none resulted in death
>2015 study searched VAERS for US report of death after any vaccination from 2013; 2149 death reports were received in this time (134 per year on average)

More people die from autoerotic asphyxiation (>160) a year than those who die shortly after receiving a vaccine.

>>12630147
That’s a decision nobody but you yourself can make. I personally don’t consciously put anything in my body for which there isn’t either very good circumstantial evidence or good data on it.
Maybe it helps you to know, how flawed and not demonstrably working the „old“ vaccines are, they did test them for eight to ten years on average for safety. This one was tested for one year and they don’t want to publish the raw data.

>>12630182
I think you are massively off.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31138219/
Events from 1990-2013 contains 500.000 official cases.
2011 report by Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, Inc.
>Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). >Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported.
>Low reporting rates preclude or slow the identification of “problem” drugs and vaccines that endanger public health. >New surveillance methods for drug and vaccine adverse effects are needed.

>>12630182
There are fates worse than death. Something normies unfortunately don't grasp.

>>12630223
And the likelihood of experiencing those fates as a result of vaccination are lower than 0.013%

>>12620022
>Admitting you were incorrect is wrong!
>You should have just pretended like you won the argument instead of accepting your defeat!

>>12630147
If you’re young then no. Not because the vaccine isn’t safe but because the risk that COVID poses to you is low. But I would wait and see what’s happening with the South African variant. That one might warrant taking a vaccine.

>>12630226
Sure because you can accurately calculate that and it isn’t extremely hard to prove causality. Give me a break. Look at the Bill Gates founded study posted, they don’t even claim to have saved a single life.
Think about the mercury sellers
>here one does that makes 10 dollars
>but if you want to be totally safe buy 3 for 25 and you are protected forever

>>12630226
No basis to suggest that. You're just another starry eyed religious fuck seeing what you want to see.

Examples to break your dumbass "logic".
-Vaccines and their manufacture change over time
-Some generations are more susceptible for whatever reason.
-Some genetic backgrounds are more susceptible for whatever reason.
-New vaccines need not follow the trends which have come before
-Your data could be garbage. Garbage in, garbage out. Issues can occur over a long timeline.
-The population is incredibly sick already, which implies your faith in the medical is retarded, but again, you're a retard, so you can't think about iatrogenic causes.

The list goes on. Magic thinking religious retards like you however will just convince yourself of a reliable flat rate range across any given subset of the population, because you figure you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs and you believe you weren't that whatever % (which is highly debateable as well).

You're a fucking moron by the way, if I wasn't clear.

>>12630237
1. Provide any evidence whatsoever that vaccines cause life-altering impairments and disabilities at a significant rate
2. As previously shown, there is no thimerosal in modern vaccines
3. Vaccines are the least profitable method of disease management

>Look at the Bill Gates founded study posted, they don’t even claim to have saved a single life
Yes they do, you clearly didn't bother to read the actual study. pic related

>>12630322
>provide evidence
If you look I have or is a meta analysis based on government data and one of the most prestigious health report not good enough for you?
>all the bad old stuff isn’t in there anymore
Now there is new stuff in, which isn’t any better, but some need another thirty years to figure it out. How does it help anyway? Most of us were vaccinated a long time ago. So we got the old stuff and already than toxicologist were warning and neither could they show evidence for the advocacy of vaccine back than.
>clearly didn’t read the actual
No I didn’t because they can’t provide data before or after that. So, if they want to make a claim about saving somebody they would have written it into the summary, which they didn’t because they know it could imply the health of the different groups to be different.

>>12630322
Stop, just fucking stop with your braindead denial. Use your eyes and brain, look around. People like you can't even be human I swear.

US is 55th globally in infant mortality.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world-factbook/fields/354rank.html
Variance by state
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/infant_mortality_rates/infant_mortality.htm
Chen et al 2016 - Why Is Infant Mortality Higher in the United States Than in Europe?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4856058/


As of 2011's data 43% of children in the US have at least 1 of 20 chronic health conditions. 54% if we include obesity.
Bethell et al 2011 - A National and State Profile of Leading Health Problems and Health Care Quality for US Children: Key Insurance Disparities and Across-State Variations
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21570014/

Pentagon data from 2017 estimates 71% of those 17-24 are physically, cognitively, or psychologically unfit for military service.
https://www.heritage.org/defense/report/the-looming-national-security-crisis-young-americans-unable-serve-the-military

Rate of autism continues to rise. 1 in 59 males nationally.
https://www.autismspeaks.org/science-news/cdc-increases-estimate-autisms-prevalence-15-percent-1-59-children
The highest is at 1 in 38 in New Jersey.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190411131538.htm

Thorpe 2012 - The medicalization of chronic disease and costs.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22224894

Selden 2019 - Decomposing changes in the growth of U.S. prescription drug use and expenditures, 1999-2016.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31070264
Miller et al 2016 - Prevalence and Costs of Five Chronic Conditions in Children
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5010981/

>>12630322
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/rr/rr6505a1.htm
Thimerosal still used in „pandemics“ vaccines.

>>12630322
What was in the placebo shot? Because it seems like there is significantly higher mortality in both groups shortly after the inoculation approximately between week 10 and 30, if compared to the other weeks.

>>12613799
Bill Gates needs to stop testing his medical cocktails on the peoples of Africa

>>12630366
>US is 55th globally in infant mortality.
>As of 2011's data 43% of children in the US have at least 1 of 20 chronic health conditions. 54% if we include obesity.
>Pentagon data from 2017 estimates 71% of those 17-24 are physically, cognitively, or psychologically unfit for military service.
>Rate of autism continues to rise. 1 in 59 males nationally.
>Thorpe 2012 - The medicalization of chronic disease and costs.
>Selden 2019 - Decomposing changes in the growth of U.S. prescription drug use and expenditures, 1999-2016.
>Miller et al 2016 - Prevalence and Costs of Five Chronic Conditions in Children
All your papers are cute, but they don't prove jack shit about vaccinations.
I could just as easily blame the skyrocketing income and wealth inequality by arguing that access to healthcare is going down and hence people are getting sicker, and it's showing up in child illnesses.

You can't just say
>Look! Autism is on the rise!
You must also show WHY autism is on the rise.

>>12630366
>Chen et al 2016 - Why Is Infant Mortality Higher in the United States Than in Europe?
Maybe read your own fucking papers next time?

Show me where this paper brings up vaccinations

>>12630512
>I could just as easily blame the skyrocketing income and wealth inequality by arguing that access to healthcare is going down
No, you couldn't. Vaccination coverage is very high, most people give birth in hospitals, low income state insurance is widely available alongside food stamps etc, even porch monkey welfare queens have kids injected all to hell and amped up on energy drinks and adderall. Your shit is ridiculous.

You couldn't even pull a viable alternative out of your ass while you discarded what I said. Absolutely pathetic.

>>12630361
>If you look I have or is a meta analysis based on government data and one of the most prestigious health report not good enough for you?
The study you refer to in>>12630207 is an analysis of all adverse reactions, regardless of how minor. It is not exclusive to life-altering disabilities. pic related is from that very study, it includes reactions such as crying and runny noses and almost none of the reactions listed can be considered severe of life-altering in any way.

>>12630530

>>12630366
You're just making absurd leaps in logic; seeing increases in various health conditions and just assuming it is a result of vaccination without a shred of evidence. You need to demonstrate causality for your arguments to carry any weight. Did you even bother to read any of these studies or do you just blindly copy and paste them into every thread on this issue? The first link 404s so I'm going to assume no.
>US is 55th globally in infant mortality.
What's your point? Countries with the lowest levels of infant mortality have overwhelmingly better access to vaccination programmes
>Why Is Infant Mortality Higher in the United States Than in Europe?
The study draws absolutely no conclusions on the causes of the IDR differences between the USA and Europe other than to assert that much of the decline in infant mortality in the 1950 to 1990 period was due to improvement in NICU technology.
>As of 2011's data 43% of children in the US have at least 1 of 20 chronic health conditions. 54% if we include obesity
Again, what's your point? Nothing in the study you posted makes any reference to vaccination
>Rate of autism continues to rise. 1 in 59 males nationally.
Again, you're just observing an increase in autism diagnoses and just assuming it's linked to vaccines. Vaccination rates have remained relatively constant for decades now and yet autism cases have continued to increase. In the UK, vaccination rates dropped from ~90% to ~80% circa 2000-2010 due to the MMR scandal and yet autism cases continued to rise in that time. Find a study that shows a statistically significant rate of autism in vaccinated children compared to unvaccinated children.

>>12630512
>You must also show WHY autism is on the rise.
Autism is a matter of total toxic load alongside specific stressors acting in synergy.
-Vaccines
-Wireless devices
-Birthing procedures
-Toxic food
-Toxic water
-Toxic air
-Certain teratogens and parenting style (eg attachment trauma)

>>12630512
>You must also show WHY autism is on the rise
Others must prove it, but you don’t? Funny how that works, you claim the vaccines did make illnesses disappear, but can’t proof it.
How isn’t there evidence for the pathology being caused by the vaccines? We have the toxicology data, which is much better than any vaccine/immunity data, on some of the substances in the vaccines. And guess what, their known effects are exactly those observed including the dropping sperm count.

>>12630547
>-Vaccines
>-Wireless devices
>-Birthing procedures
>-Toxic food
>-Toxic water
>-Toxic air
>-Certain teratogens and parenting style (eg attachment trauma)
Show me the evidence that proves all of these things can trigger autism

>>12630554
>Others must prove it, but you don’t? Funny how that works, you claim the vaccines did make illnesses disappear, but can’t proof it.
First of all, you're confusing me with someone else. I only joined this thread about 15 mins ago.

Yes, you must prove that vaccines cause autism. You need to provide evidence. It's called burden of proof.

>you claim the vaccines did make illnesses disappear, but can’t proof it.
Whether vaccines can prevent people from contracting certain illnesses is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to whether vaccines cause autism or not. Don't try to change the subject.

>We have the toxicology data
Post it then! Post the toxicology data for the Moderna, Pfizer, Oxford vaccines. Show me the ingredients in those vaccines that are toxic and cause "dropping sperm count" or whatever else you want to claim

>>12630547
How convenient. Vaccines by themselves don't cause autism, no no no...
It's vaccines COMBINED with a very specifically curated list!
Surely you have the evidence that proves this "synergy" right? Go on, show us the evidence that vaccines by themselves don't cause autism, but vaccines coupled with "wireless devices" and "birthing procedures" do!

>>12630563
>These findings support a hypothesis that mercury in vaccines may be a factor in the pathogenesis of autism.
https://www.nature.com/articles/4001177?fbclid=IwAR3Di5E4QBFMyHlaNvESWZS8_S-N1VZ0II4pQDOYXf631zfgv6FbSCJmbKM

>>12630591
>mercury
Show me the evidence that the Moderna, Oxford, Pfizer vaccines for COVID-19 contain mercury.

>>12630546
>You're just making absurd leaps in logic;
From your perspective.

>The first link 404s
It's the CIA's world factbook. Just look up their current version.

>What's your point? Countries with the lowest levels of infant mortality have overwhelmingly better access to vaccination programmes
Bad framing. US vaccinates far earlier and far more than other countries.

>Again, what's your point? Nothing in the study you posted makes any reference to vaccination
It doesn't have to.

>Again, you're just observing an increase in autism diagnoses and just assuming
This is childishly infantalizing anyone who doesn't share your view. You have no theory of mind, so you just assume they're blind golem who read and reflexively react because surely they just aren't perfect and logical Mr. Spock like you. I consider all angles. Just because I say something to you, doesn't mean you have a complete snapshot of my mind. Just because I do not say something to you, does not mean I have not thought it. You're not a superset of me.

>Vaccination rates have remained relatively constant for decades now
False. Simple as, nothing more to be said. Look up the vaccination schedule over time. This basically disqualifies you on the spot imo, you have no idea what you're arguing over. If what you're getting at is vaccination coverage, again, autism is a matter f total toxic load. Not arguing for sole causation.

>Find a study that shows a statistically significant rate of autism in vaccinated children compared to unvaccinated children.
Those studies almost always indicate unvaccinated are healthier.

>>12630583
So you're retarded and don't like dealing with the complex reality of toxicology. Nonlinear dose response and synergisms are too inconvenient for your simple mind. Fine, not my problem.

>>12630594
>read label
duuhh dats wuts in dare i reddit on dur payper
duhhhhh day sed it twueee

ddduuuuuhhhh

>>12630595
>So you're retarded and don't like dealing with the complex reality of toxicology. Nonlinear dose response and synergisms are too inconvenient for your simple mind. Fine, not my problem.
>Please, please!!! Trust me!!! It's vaccines combined with wireless devices and birth procedures that cause autism!!!
>I'm not going to post the studies that have been done into this, I'm just going to call you retarded and claim you don't know the complex reality of toxicology
>But I know for a fact that vaccines combined with wireless devices and birth procedures cause autism! I know that, even though I have no evidence to support it! I know it!

>>12630602
I see that you truly are retarded.

>>12630601
So you have no evidence to prove the Moderna, Pfizer, Oxford vaccines contain mercury.
Tell me, if they contain no mercury, what reason do we have to believe that they cause autism?

>>12630611
>murr curry iz duuhhhh ownlee wayz 2 gets dduuuuhhh awww tism.
See:
>>12614855

>>12630604
>I see that you truly are retarded.
Show me the evidence that proves that vaccines combined with wireless devices, birth procedures, toxic food, etc. can cause autism.

>>12630602
>2021
>Responding to 5g clamp vaccine schizo
He'll go away in a few days

>>12630611
>ha you don’t have any data on new and untested substances
>that means there is nothing in the way before we put it in hundreds of millions
I don’t think you get, how it works.

>>12630622
Birthing procedures:
See this thread:
>>/sci/thread/S12527247

Review the literature on pitocin (oxytocin).

Wireless devices:
See effects of altered Ca2+ flux prenatally via Timothy Syndrome.
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/timothy-syndrome
People with Timothy syndrome almost always present with autism. Wireless devices and SEVERAL toxins alter ion buffering and flux. Redistributing those extracellular domains would change synaptic guidance, dendritic spine formation, etc. the burst of estrogen required for pruning could also be delayed or diminished.

See:
Martha Herbert, PhD. Pediatric neurology, Mass. General.
https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/7520940748.pdf
http://www.marthaherbert.org/library/Herbert-Sage-2013-Autism-EMF-PlausibilityPathophysiologicalLink-Part11.pdf
http://www.marthaherbert.org/library/Herbert-Sage-2013-Autism-EMF-PlausibilityPathophysiologicalLink-Part2.pdf
Harvard Pediatric Neurologist on Electromagnetic Radiation, Autism and Brain Development May 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiybO08af58

Toxic food etc:
Too broad, not going to go there. You probably subsist on processed trash so it's a hopeless battle getting you to register that there is a problem with the food supply.

>>12630636
He does, unfortuantely.

>>12630232
No anon, admitting you were wrong is good, but it's not good enough. If you want to restore your honor completely, you must kill yourself.

>>12630657
This. Sudoku is the only way he can make himself anew.

>>12630537
>just a runny nose
Look at the data again.
Than look at the other source. This is approximately less than one percent. Plus additive toxicology, which is very hard to even somewhat approximate.

>>12630657
I corrected him and in fact I think he is fine and reasonably intelligent. I talk to different scientist quite a lot and many just can’t halfway objectively can look at data. They will always parrot narratives and sadly often unconsciously or semi consciously try produce fitting data. Even if you present the data, if it’s not in the textbook they won’t touch it.

>>12630778
Knife to the gut, it's the only way.

>>12630366
>Why Is Infant Mortality Higher in the United States Than in Europe?
Because the USA has a very large population of unhealthy and obese people?

>>12631103
That also clamps, induces with pitocin, vaccinates, circumcises, fluoridated, brominates, chlorinates, etc.

>>12631108
So that's why the USA has a higher food intake than the rest of the world? I'm dubious.

>>12631117
You're kidding right? You actually think brain damaging an animal won't affect its pattern of consumption?

Completely done with you people.

>>12631149
>You actually think brain damaging an animal won't affect its pattern of consumption?
Going out on a limb...nope. I went through everything you just stated and I'm still lean and healthy. I think it's all because I actually eat a decent diet of three meals per day instead of snacking on junk food all day like many people I see. I'm not alone. Unless you can prove that everything you stated forces a person to eat chips instead of an apple, I'm not buying it.

>>12631188
>duh i don't do it darefore it hav no roll n ne ting at ALL!!! nuh uh, dun by it!
Stupid doubles down on stupid. Classic.

Fuck you man.

>>12631209
I'm giving you an opportunity. This isn't just about total food consumption, it's about a choice in food. Why are people being forced beyond their will to eat a bag of chips and fried food instead of an apple? Why do Americans who move to other countries adapt to their diets and lose weight if diet is beyond their control?

>>12613810
>Flat-earther proves world is round once again
Whatever, man.

>>12631246
>I'm giving you an opportunity.
You are a vampire. A black hole.

>Why are people being forced beyond their will
The short version to this pointless topic is that there is no such thing as free will. Will is strictly theoretical and potential, not actual. What someone is capable of doing is irrelevant to the underlying structure which forms and maintains what they actually do. The origin of behavior is a kaleidoscopic manifestation of three underlying factors.
-Genetics
-Personal history and other particularities (such as brain damage)
-Present context and environment

Therefore like everything, it has its roots in everything from epigenetics inherited from the parents, exposures in the womb, conditioning beginning in infancy, and indirect causes like damage to the brain, lack of the means required to develop or consistently use other coping strategies, and bad feedback from the psychosocial ecology. For example some papers have found rapid spikes in blood sugar can temporarily return brain damaged (hippocampus) rats to near basal peformance. There are any number of constellations behind why someone is habituated and stable in any given mode of consumption, as well as why they fail to leave that ground state and establish a new one. Although I think what is required to break them of these habits is comparatively few. Why would they succeed in other countries? The food and water are less poison, the psychosocial feedback loops have changed. This doesn't nullify the lack of inborn will, it's still like a child.

Basically these are questions you can answer for yourself. It's really not hard. Even why they don't bother totry to be fit and live properly is pretty easily explained for a given individual. Most of it is usually fear and control. If you can't see how diminishing brain function in early childhood would augment fear and the basis of one's need for control, especially alongside conditioning, I can't help.

>>12627548
>shifting goal posts this hard
This board doesn't seem your style, maybe try >>>/r/eddit ?

>>12631366
>Why would they succeed in other countries? The food and water are less poison, the psychosocial feedback loops have changed.
With that answer, you just eliminated nearly everything you claimed in your prior post.

>>12631108
>That also clamps, induces with pitocin, vaccinates, circumcises, fluoridated, brominates, chlorinates, etc.
If they can succeed in another country, then only present factors matter (in other words, the circumcisions, vaccines, clamping, etc, don't matter). Eliminate the dirty water and and food, surround them with better options, and they'll be fine. Present environment determines our decisions and our health. In other words, it's their shitty diets, nothing else causing the obesity, and diets can be modified with a change of environment. There's no permanent brain damage that cannot be overcome.

But I still believe your claims are a piss poor explanation for why someone absolutely has no choice over eating an apple over a bag of chips. Go shopping when you're not hungry, don't buy junk food, and then you won't have to make a choice when it's time to eat. I suspect the real reason Americans often lose weight in other countries is they're given smaller portions for the meals that they buy, and are forced to do more walking rather than driving. You don't need to find an excuse (like brain damage) to explain why it works, it's simple calories in, calories out.

>>12631428
>There's no permanent brain damage that cannot be overcome.
Define "overcome". If you can put someone back in their original environment and they stand a chance of reverting, they haven't overcome anything. That's not the argument regardless, it's about contributing factors. You just don't want to face that you were clamped and poisoned, and that it is a stain you will carry for the rest of your life.

>explanation for why someone absolutely has no choice over eating an apple over a bag of chips
The mental space of possibility is irrelevant, all that matters is ultimate actions and outcomes. The fact is very simple. Apples exist, they don't eat them. Start there, build up your case for a given individual.

And.
Fuck you man.

>>12631413
We are having an interesting discussion here. And you claimed something and couldn’t deliver. If you feel you can’t prove your claims, why tell somebody to go away? Try to make a better argument, you claimed vaccines work and couldn’t prove it until now.

>>12613799
Also to be clear the new mRNA and DNA delivery systems/mechanisms, wrongly referred to as „vaccines“ by layman, are synthetic pathogens and met the definition of gene modification (yes also the mRNA, because mRNA is also genetic code it’s just an interim stage of DNA).

>>12630657
Sounds like a kike thing, no thanks.

Let’s do this
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2020/212/10/isolation-and-rapid-sharing-2019-novel-coronavirus-sars-cov-2-first-patient
>Objectives: To describe the first isolation and sequencing of SARS‐CoV‐2 in Australia and rapid sharing of the isolate
Of course the useless sequencing.
>no true isolation from specimen directly ex vivo
Like always they failed nothing in there. We could go home right here, but they needed to fill another 20 pages.
>not „infected“ control line
Better than most.
>didn’t put a specimen form somebody not „infected“ (how would we know everybody is asymptomatically infected) and the other stuff (trypsin inactivated trust us) in
Or at least didn’t specify it, still lame.
>weak pathologic effect
>look we threw in primers as if there is no tomorrow
Whole genome, it’s real in silico.
>we couldn’t culture it in any cells belonging to the alleged host
>Vero/hSLAM cells (African green monkey kidney cells transfected to express the human signaling lymphocytic activation molecule (SLAM; also known as CDw150)
Actually SARS-CoV-2 can’t even „grow“ in/destroy tissue of any living organism, at least it isn’t proven to this day, to be otherwise.

>>12631471
>If you can put someone back in their original environment and they stand a chance of reverting, they haven't overcome anything.
Sure they have. The fact that any change was possible implies it wasn't permanent. There's no reason to be fat unless you have a legitimate case of hypothyroidism. Could the environment in the USA be contributing? Sure, but it has more to do with lack of activity and too much access to shitty food.

>You just don't want to face that you were clamped and poisoned, and that it is a stain you will carry for the rest of your life.
I'm lean and healthy, so where's this stain you're speaking of? Although the fact that you believe I have some ulterior motive here makes me believe you're a fat ass who is looking for any excuse for your failures.

>Apples exist, they don't eat them. Start there, build up your case for a given individual.
Yet somehow people, even in the USA, manage to adjust their diets and lose weight. That shouldn't even be possible based on your logic.

>Fuck you man.
Ditto. You've behaved like a piece of shit from your very first comment to me.

Good post OP.
I have personal experience with the subject:
My great grandfather (dad’s grandfather) and grandfather (dad’s father) both died of ALS. The latter passed away in 2003. This has lead to my parents and my grandmother both having extensive contact with a geneticist who was one of the grandfather’s doctors when he was dying.
He explicitly told my parents that nobody who is a blood relative of my grandfather should ever get a vaccine that is new to the market. They don’t know what causes ALS, as you may know, but they have some educated guesses, and one of those guesses is certain heavy metals that are found in vaccines.
Nobody I’ve ever explained this to has ever believed me because the prevailing narrative is that vaccines are infallible and there are no questions about them. That’s just not true.
What’s true is that there are many vaccines that we know are safe. But that’s with decades of research.
I’m not an anti-Vaxxer but I’m also not taking my chances with a new vaccine that was rushed out the door.

>>12631963
>Sure they have. The fact that any change was possible implies it wasn't permanent.
This is like saying a ball throw up in the air has overcome the ground and all of its earthly burdens.... until it hist the ground and then sits there again.... because it has no inborn capacity to lift itself up again. It remains subject.

>There's no reason to be fat
Again, reality keeps getting in your way. Look around. There are fat people. Open and shut case, anthropic principle, etc. Obviously there are reasons to be fat.

>I'm lean and healthy, so where's this stain you're speaking of?
See:
>>/sci/thread/S12527247
Just because a stain has always been there, doesn't mean it's a natural part of you.

>Although the fact that you believe I have some ulterior motive
I believe no such thing. You're not living in reality, so, with some exceptions, you'll have difficulty solving problems in reality.

>makes me believe you're a fat ass who is looking for any excuse for your failures.
Nope, not fat, never have been. I'm one of those people that has the compulsion and near sole purpose of fixing everything, and making everything right. I don't look for excuses, I look for causes and targets.

> That shouldn't even be possible based on your logic.
You keep doing this black and white thing. Let's put it this way. You can hack an animal's leg off and put it at the bottom of a flight of stairs, or perhaps a better analogy, at the top of a mountain. Sure, it's possible to get where it wants to go, but it's not so straightforward, and certainly, needlessly difficult.

>Ditto. You've behaved like a piece of shit from your very first comment to me.
Good.

>>12631998
Thanks. That’s a very relatable story. I‘m personally more a data driven guy. But I think personal lessons are always relevant and probably in the end outweigh any data. Also thanks to the scientists seems like somebody, who is informed.
I posted here
>>12620732
My personal perspective from looking at the immune system, signaling pathways, toxins and the mircobiom is as follows. What our immune system really is can be understood as part of a greater metabolic regulation system to get harmful substances out and to produce needed substances, if it’s not possible or if it’s more effective with the help of micro organisms. There is no border between a human and his microbiom. In fact there is strong evidence the body and the bacteria, but also fungi closely communicating with each other (across the different kinds in one body too). Many try to discuss this away by interpreting it differently e.g. as alarming cells etc., but if you look closely it’s just too organized. The bacteria, archaea, protozoa/fungi are there to fulfill are purpose and the „immune“ system wants them there and the „other“ organism wants to do it. Especially, if the body has temporarily lost a function or needs something to be done, that can’t be done by human cells, complex regulation processes will bring organisms there that can. I don’t really believe that micro organisms take „over“. It just seems that way, because the human body tries to do something really urgent and goes all in with all resources available. So the correlation between massive presence of a few certain bacteria (specialized for the task at hand) and illness isn’t causation. It’s probably a last ditch effort of regulatory process to get something done.
In my opinion the reason, why much of our genome is of viral origin, is because we define our genome as viral. Or better we find parts of our genome and create a Frankenstein out of realigning it and give it a scary name.

>>12632293
>create a Frankenstein
I wanted to say many Frankensteins, but that was above 2000 signs.

>>12614185
>What if a vaccine can't actually prevent it. What if the vaccine causes them to be sick for life, where proper nutrition and sanitation could have allowed them health for life?
>>>/x/

>>12632691
Clamped.

>>12613799
Poke through this book: http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=2A8954EB078168A9DDA3422919676E97

It might give you some ideas.

>>12613810
Good luck with that. You can never verify the data or methods of the countless studies which constitute "science".

>>12614059
How the fuck are you still going on about clamping. Please take your meds you poor schizo

>>12632708
Sure you can take vacation studies disregard them, if there is no raw data. If there is look at their methodology and calculate, if the numbers are correct. Than look at the people doing it and the people sponsoring it and their motives and possibly biases. It’s not that hard.

>>12631574
>no u
Each of your sand pillar arguments got knocked down and you just kept flinging poop in a desperate attempt to rationalize the schizophrenic voices in your head. Eternally clamped.

>>12632725
He is kind of correct. I‘m somebody, who can read virology papers and explain to you, what they are doing. If you want you can give me any of their papers proving some virus exists or how it’s properly called fulfilled the modified Koch’s postulates (Rivers postulates). I can already tell you they didn’t manage to do it and I show it to you, why the virus wasn’t „isolated“. However „bacteriophages“ aren’t „viral“ particles, although the virologist take it and it’s characteristics as the bases of their discipline. As a layman you can understand them much better as bacterial „sperm“.

>>12632725
How the fuck are they still clamping, vaccinating,and circumcising? How the fuck are they still halogenating and irradiating??

>>12632131
>This is like saying a ball throw up in the air has overcome the ground and all of its earthly burdens
If you throw it in the air while in space, it won't come back down. Isn't that your argument? If you go to another country, and you're able to lose weight, then there's no permanent damage, it's a matter of environment. Case closed (in your opinion, anyway).

>Again, reality keeps getting in your way.
Why'd you cut my sentence in half? I gave a reason to be fat, hypothyroidism. No other reason, none. Calories in, calories out.

>You're not living in reality
No, I'm not into making excuses. You're making the argument that people are in control of nothing, which is absurd.

>I'm one of those people that has the compulsion and near sole purpose of fixing everything, and making everything right. I don't look for excuses, I look for causes and targets.
But you can't make anything right, you have no free will, what will happen will happen and everything you do is predefined.

>>12632853
>and you're able to lose weight, then there's no permanent damage
Simply being able to lose the weight doesn't mean its whole basis was fully reversible (and if so, reversible to what?)

>No other reason, none. Calories in, calories out.
No. Thermodynamics is the wrong lens to view it through. You yourself indicated this earlier when you mentioned food content, rather than sheer quantity.

>You're making the argument that people are in control of nothing, which is absurd.
Shrug. Try to get people to change. They can, yet they don't. Potential is not actual, a bitter reality.

>what will happen will happen and everything you do is predefined.
Not going to go there, sorry. With or without hard determinism, the fact is, like any machine humans can and do get stuck in traps. If you are trapper, you make sure to rework their nature, and their landscape, so you are sure they will remain doing what you want, and not doing what you do not want. Like the farmer banding his cattle, fencing them in, and clipping the wings of his birds. He does what he must to keep them within his domain. The same agricultural model is applied to man.

>>12614059
What do you think caused your OCD?

>>12614059
>Note the absurdity of having no saline placebo control
Pfizer-BioNTech used a saline control.

>>12632885
His points still stands. Often the adjuvants are the same in the placebo and the verum group.
>Pfizer-BioNTech
That’s not a vaccine >>12631646

>>12632875
>No. Thermodynamics is the wrong lens to view it through. You yourself indicated this earlier when you mentioned food content, rather than sheer quantity.
Quantity doesn't matter, density does. The amount of potato chips to be filling compared to an apple results in far more calories being consumed. If your thyroid is functioning properly, it's impossible to get fat off a certain amount of calories per day since you're always burning a certain amount just to keep everything functioning.

>Shrug. Try to get people to change. They can, yet they don't. Potential is not actual, a bitter reality.
People change. You're not going to get me to agree otherwise. It's hard, we develop habits, but they can certainly be overcome.

>>12632895
>wrongly referred to as "vaccines" by layman
They're being referred to as vaccines by doctors, scientists, and biologists. Are you really calling them laymen? I think you're being pedantic.

>>12632877
>Quantity doesn't matter, density does.
The issue I have with this perspective is that the body is not a car, food is not fuel for the tank, and this goes well beyond satiety signalling and so on. There are several genetic, gut microbiome, subclinical hormonal /endocrine, and food content factors that modulate behavior and also bias toward fat desposition while inhibiting conversion to brown adipose. They need to eat less, but they also need proper nutrition and not to eat trash. This is much better than expecting people to obsessively count calories, which probably won't even work.

>People change.
I'm not so sure. Aspect of behavior changing is not the same as people changing,

>>12632914
Woops, meant for:
>>12632901

>>12614016
*squish*

>>12632910
I don’t think I‘m pedantic. Some scientists or especially physicians don’t understand it, but I‘m sure the specialists have to know it. They just call it a „vaccine“ for legal and psychological reasons. Maybe they will try to change the definition.

>>12613799
now you know why big tech and uni's are bad, not bad but you know what im saying. US is now communist.

>>12613819
Even if you have truth on your side, you will need to present it in a way, that can be understood by the people you want to tell it. If you are young you have to watch more for societal dynamics too. Or at least have alternative plans.

>>12632901
>>12632914
My guess is the truth lays somewhere in the middle. Fat isn’t always bad at least, if it’s not too much,

>>12618683
imagine spending 18 years of your life raising a child with the expectation that when you're older that they'll take care of you when you're infirm. Only to have them grow up to be this level of neurotic selfish prick who can't sacrifice 12 months and considers you better off dead. shygddt couldn't be me.

It’s official even Merck says the artificial immune response is carp and people should just go out and catch whatever alleged virus is out there.

>>12614932
/thread

>>12618234
That's great that you are doing all that. Guess that there is no need for me to mask myself because I can't hurt you then.

The terrain is everything the germ is nothing.

>>12635137
seethe, fatty

>>12635252
Thanks for your contribution. Very convincing.

>>12613799
Simply point out current safe medicines like antibiotics will have severe ramifications for 1 in 2000 ppl

The process

How any money making company will exploit anything anyway. Like utility companies selling water

>>12635303
I'm sorry you have no family, anon. :-(

>>12613799
Vaccine courts

>>12613840
I am so fucking glad I'm not in med school. Holy shit that Bolshevik mentality is back in force

>>12613799
Not an expert in the field at all but you could look up Del Bigtree's shit and Dr. Andy Kaufmann

>>12613922
This

>>12614571
none of those things disappeared

>>12614704
People in the 50's were getting long onset diseases from being malnourished as kids in the 30's

>>12613840
>>12613810
fucking hell. this is grim. these people just deterministically follow from whatever the media or mainstream science says. i imagine even if you critiqued something in particular they'd still have a mental breakdown. they're beyond hope, beyond self-awareness or reflection so it doesn't matter.

skepticism amongst those that understand what it means and what scientific doubt & probability is, is fine.

but when you introduce skepticism into a normal conversation about vaccines, you are doing the anti-vaxxers job regardless of your intention.

the undermining of trust in science is becoming a real problem. whilst i dont believe in patriarchal medicine, i think we should listen to science on the risks and benefits of thing like vaccines and trust that as much as possible.

and remember, a live patient is more valuable to a drug company than a dead one.

>>12636475
Please define "patriarchal medicine"
>and then go back

>>12636489
you do know what that means, dont you?

>>12636437
Actually provide an argument that isn't anecdotal or based on your feelings then.

>>12613840
>Our professor told us to comply with whatever the majority of publications insist because "the majority of scientists believing something indicates that it is true".

This attitude from an academic is exactly why more and more people reject the legitimacy of academic conclusions and go off to reach their own conclusions. Dogmatism and elitist arrogance are naturally repulsive traits to the bulk of a society's population. Combine that with academics deploying shame tactics and censorship for dealing with dissidents, and now you have an environment where normal people will decide vaccine science is illegitimate just because of the behavior of its advocates.

Then, when they go looking for research on their own, their brains will automatically pre-judge pro-vaccine data as potential bullshit coming from scumbags. That position is almost impossible for two sides to reconcile.

>>12636657
As, if that was hard for him to do.
What do you want. I can present you data on the replication crisis, scientific scandals, conflicts of interests endangering science, people getting less healthy, life expectancy dropping in the US, shrinking middle class, how few people own all the academic journals. We can start where you want. There can be little doubt the overall decline in media, political decision quality and societal decline in general being strongly linked to scientific trouble. If your universities are full of people with little care for truth, who just parrot things and scream about the science being settled, it’s no surprise for old errors to be perpetuated and little new insight being generated.

>>12637403
My personal opinion it isn’t elitism or arrogance. It’s people, who can’t understand methodology and won’t be able to take a unbiased statistical look at data. The levels of scientific self delusion are unbelievable. And the system selects for these people, who can’t really do it and can only go by imitating, what others do. They will never make any significant discovery, that’s why science is basically reduced to grant chasing and self fulfilling prophecies.

>>12636475
>the undermining of trust in science is becoming a real problem
You must have been living under a rock the last fifteen years.

>>12640240
>trust in science
What the fuck does that even mean

>>12627178
Same, If anything my jogs have gotten longer and easier despite constantly exposing myself. Florida men just built different I guess.

>>12640434
Making a religion out of a methodology.

>>12640240
>it's a i don't trust science because BEN SHAPIRO OWNS LIBTARD ON TWO GENDERS episode
Tiring.

>>12641739
What does Ben Shapiro have to do with not wanting science to become a faith based unquestionable belief system?

>>12641739
Massive derailment.

>>12636275
It’s ridiculous