/sci/ - Science & Math

Cat thread?

SLS will reach orbit before starship.

It's been one hell of a year, /sfg/.
Here's to many more like it

I looked up "sfg" in the catalog and found nothing, and got confused, then realized I was in "Alternative Sports".

>>12527012
I've seen it in Michoud. SLS is REAL. Starship is just a prototype making hops, rocketry is HARD.

>>12527002
post yfw the launch tower snags you out of the air

Starship makes no sense and will fail,
It's too powerful and nobody needs a launcher that can put 100 tonne into leo, satellites aren't that big
nobody will risk launching their billion dollar satellite on a cheap dinky launcher, they'll go for more tried and tested systems since the launch cost is only a fraction of the satellite cost
No sold launches = starship will fail

>>12527017
Use filters

>>12527022
Finally someone sensible on sfg

Remember to report low quality posts fren

>>12527031
Reports aren't meant for posts, they're meant for threads. Learn to ignore.

>>12527031
>Reddit post policing mentality
Go back

>>12527031
*and upvote posts you like

Reactive propelant enthusiasts btfo

>>12527035
>>12527038
>>12527040
Fine then you can keep the bots and /pol/iticians

>>12527047
>power hiccups for 1/2 a second
>trillions of dollars worth of infrastructure come crashing down
No thanks.

>>12527012
Haha. No chance. Starship will be landing on Mars before SLS is Go Flight, presuming it doesn't blow up on its first test.

>>12527012
Spacex is seriously going to put two new rockets into orbit in the time between that quote and SLS launching, aren't they?

>>12527022
No one wants to put 100tonne in LEO because there's no reliable system for doing it.

>>12527047
This looks like something you have to fly inside and blow up at the end of an Ace Combat game.

>>12527055
It's only $50bil. And it would be powered by redundant nuclear reactors.

>>12527017
I can't wait until there are rocket chair hop/lunar orienteering races on /asp/

>>12527062
>No reliable system
There's no system for it at all

>posts criticizing trump
>DON'T FORGET TO REPORT ANYTHING THAT TRIGGERS ME OR DOESN'T FOLLOW THE NARRATIVE

>>12527073
Exactly. So SpaceX builds the infrastructure and some other guy who has been waiting their entire life for this chance comes up with a way to make 100tonne to LEO profitable and we all benefit.

SN15 is supposed to have major changes to it, what kind of changes are we expecting?

>leave spaceX to ME

>>12527091
Isn't 15 when they switch to the new steel alloy?

>>12527095
I thought that was SN9.

>>12527091
Strengthened-glass superstructure, radical new type of engine powered by exotic matter, froyo dispensers on the first-class decks. Steerage get boxes of deenz.

>>12527091
.50 cal machine guns to counter-snipe the ULA spotters

>>12527107
Why haven't we seen more of that? Like an enemy country could just have a guy stationed 2 miles from the rocket, then fire at liftoff. And small hole would probably doom the to let and give their own program a benefit.

>>12527120
>Why haven't we seen more of that?
Because interfering with rocket launches is a good way to get ICBM'd.

>>12527093
Crewed landing pads are the future

>>12527131
I too love Jeff Bezos' mother.
Sometimes twice a month.

>>12527131
kek imagine being the captain of the boat on the maiden flight of old glenn. At least you’ll be taken out in a blaze of glory

>>12527022
Couldn’t this rocket be modified and used to take cargo to the moon? If so then couldn’t it be used to star sending large amounts of supplies, equipment, and materials in preparation for constructing a moon base of some kind?

Seems like it could be very useful for more than taking shit to orbit.

>>12527120
NASA has security. If SpaceX wants it they'll have to pay for it themselves.

>>12527017
>he doesn't have a dedicated /sfg/ button on his start page
https://boards.4channel.org/sci/catalog#s=/sfg/
here you go anon

>>12527017
When Starlink IPOs, you'll probably be able to find an /sfg/ on /biz/.

>>12527091
A working bathroom. Don't ask where it disposes of the waste.

>>12527194
ISRU methane

>>12527194
>Don't ask where it disposes of the waste.
THAT'S NOT WASTE THAT'S COST PLUS JOBS MONEY
OM NOM NOM NOM

>>12527172
Badass

we're never going FTL are we.

>>12527217
Standard Model is wrong and everyone knows that.

>>12527047
>dude just move at super sonic speeds and do a u turn, it’s a pipe so physics don’t matter

>>12527020
Requesting an edit of this meme with >>12527002

>>12527222
do you have any ideas for something better?

>>12527217
no, but it's fine. It's just a matter of adjusting the human lifespan and suddenly 100,000 years isn't that big of a deal. Intergalactic travel will probably always be a big deal.

>>12527233
>no, but it's fine.

You must own a time machine to know humans will never invent FTL. Ironic.

>It's just a matter of adjusting the human lifespan and suddenly 100,000 years isn't that big of a deal.

Genuinely retarded idea.

>>12527230
No one does, really. It's kind of obvious that the human brain was never meant to be able to comprehend the universe to an extent past that necessary for survival. It's kind of our fault that we even care; surrogate activities and all that.

>>12527224
Math checks out. An iron ribbon can withstand these forces. But out ribbon would be made of something better like steel.

>>12527217
Memes can overwrite reality. Physical law will change to allow it if the collective subconscious demands it.

>>12527260
Physical laws are literally human mental constructs, not actual things in the universe.

>>12527217
I honestly don’t think we ever will, but that is no reason to lose hope. If we create some way of letting people sleep or be frozen for the immense journeys then it isn’t that major of a problem.

The lack of FTL may also explain how little evidence of other intelligent creatures in the universe we have discovered.

>>12527292
Isn't it true that as you approach the speed of light the time dilation makes it such that you can travel an infinite distance in a relatively finite amount of "time" experienced by the humans onboard? We don't need FTL, near lightspeed will be good enough.

>>12527120
Maintaining a 2 mile exclusion zone is not that hard

>>12527233
And what is someone meant to do for a 100,000 years on an enclosed space?

It’s only a matter of time before some suicidal autist kills everyone or compromises the mission. It would be better to put people to sleep than keeping them awake.

>>12527299
Yeah, and the energy required to do so goes through the fucking roof.
As in, "100% efficient anti-matter/matter reactions to thrust isn't good enough "-tier

>>12527302
read
there's finally time now

>>12527292
>The lack of FTL may also explain how little evidence of other intelligent creatures in the universe we have discovered.

There is no reason to expect evidence of other civilizations even in a universe with FTL. A super star destroyer could have flown through our solar system a few thousand years ago and how the fuck would we know?

>>12527299
Well unfortunately nobody has traveled that fast before and I doubt we will ever create a craft that can move that fast so even if it did happen we wouldn’t get to experience it and what some people tend to forget is that moving at those speeds and then hitting even a grain of sand would be like a nuke going off.

If you encounter any matter at those speeds then your ship will be annihilated.

>>12527131
This is the weirdest thing about BO IMO. Why put people's lives in danger when there's literally no reason?

>>12527327
The math checks out for just using ablative shielding on interstellar craft.

>>12527323
The real answer is the Ultimate Haruhi Marathon.

>>12527327
You have multiple other craft fly in front of you to shield from particles and clear the way.

>>12527336
I don't understand this reusable crew meme.

>>12527344
>Operation: Get Behind the Darkies, interstellar edition

>>12527344
>ship in front of you runs into debris and explodes
>you run into the debris of that ship
?????

>>12527324
Seems like a missed opportunity to not colonise a world like this if any aliens did pass by.

But besides I still don’t see FTL happening, I think we better get ready for some long fucking journeys.

>>12527346
You can make ablative shields from water ice which are sufficient protection; depending on the local density of dust. An interesting idea I heard is that we may be able to just "island hop" between stars using the rather numerous rogue planets and brown dwarfs in between. Closer to the core, stars are really fucking close, with stars within a few hundred AU of eachother.

>>12527356
>Seems like a missed opportunity to not colonise a world like this if any aliens did pass by.
I have a hypothesis about that.
>ship smashes through the Oort Cloud via Alcubierre Drive and decelerates outside Kuiper Belt
>begin studying system from outside in
>by the time they get to Earth one of the comets their gravity wake dislodged is crashing into the Canadian ice sheets
>"whoops lol"
>ayylmaos don't come back because they figure we'd go extinct

>>12527344
What’s stops the remains of the crafts in front hitting you if they get hit?

Probably better just to move at slower speeds and maybe build your ship into a big fucking asteroid so the mass of the thing can serve as your shield.

>>12527302
Live in their simulated reality that is no different from life on their destination? The whole argument doesn't make sense, the only reason I can foresee such a highly advanced civilization traveling for 100,000 years would be for resources and unless we become the biological version of gray goo there is no reason we would need to get that far into space.

>>12527352
They are designed to withstand and deflect the debris.

is the Everette interpretation right?

>>12527356
>Seems like a missed opportunity to not colonise a world like this if any aliens did pass by.

Too many potential variables to say definitively. Incompatible biochemistry, zoning laws, lack of migration pressure, environmental protections, whatever. There's plenty of islands on Earth that could be inhabited but just aren't.

>>12527257
2000 km long chain, moving at 14km/s, in a vacuum, held in place by magnets, ok
You go try to turn at 14 km/s lol

Megastructures are a joke

>>12527376
yesno

>>12527373
>Live in their simulated reality that is no different from life on their destination?

Simulation shit is for sad WEEBs. I'd rather hunt awesome genetically engineered monstrosities in a biodome and offer their skins to the ancestors.

>>12527373
And then the fags refuse to leave the simulation because it’s too comfy and now you can’t get them out because they just use the argument that they can live forever so they have plenty of time to play sims before colonising.

>>12527403
Ayys must instate fascism to prevent degeneracy.

>>12527093
>a meme from the oort cloud

Why doesn't Jeff get hair implants like Elon?

>>12527413
Low speed low drag

>>12527091
Propulsive landing with the RCS nozzles alone

>>12527409
Seems like that’s the only method of keeping things in order for even a marginal amount of time.

Look how rapidly the US has changed in a single century with democracy, it went from a global superpower to a mediocre has been that is currently being burned to ashes by a race biologically compelled to commit crime while another race biologically compelled to nation wreck is allowing it and the normal people allow both to exist.

Holding an interstellar empire together without FTL must be a nightmare for even a couple hundred years let alone hundreds of thousands.

>>12527438
The US progressed from a colonial backwater to the most powerful nation in human history under democracy as well, so I'm not really sure how your fantasies about American decline are particularly relevant.

>>12527002
Looks like Super Heavy really will run on methane.

>>12527022
>It's too powerful and nobody needs a launcher that can put 100 tonne into leo, satellites aren't that big
>nobody will risk launching their billion dollar satellite on a cheap dinky launcher, they'll go for more tried and tested systems since the launch cost is only a fraction of the satellite cost

>>12527438
And the major fascist governments lasted what, less than two whole decades before their aggressive hegemonism led them into unwinnable conflict? Not advocating democracy, it's a corruption of polity and should be obliterated from civilized society but putting forward fascism or communism or any of the modern authoritarian governments as an alternative is like proposing a mouthful of double aught buckshot as an alternative to shooting yourself in the foot.

>>12527394
>I'd rather hunt awesome genetically engineered monstrosities in a biodome and offer their skins to the ancestors.
That is just what you would do inside your simulation and you wouldn't be able to discern any difference from base reality unless you wanted to. It's just a question of when simulating something like this will be easier and less resource intensive than actually doing it, but I'd wager humans will get to that point before we're even able to visit another star.

>>12527465
Just win the conflicts lol

>>12527475
>That is just what you would do inside your simulation and you wouldn't be able to discern any difference from base reality unless you wanted to

Simulations aren't real and are therefore inferior to the actual thing.

>>12527476
Yes, I'm sure an economic and social model you make up exclusively as you go along, solving all problems with direct state intervention would have been sure to last for a thousand years, as opposed to, uh, collapsing, like it has in every other instance where central planning is imposed in modern human history.

>>12527022
>>12527022
All Musk needs to do is obtain nuclear weapons and cost suddenly becomes a non issue. 100 tons of space weapons would give him negotiating power against weak, fickle, and pussilaminous idiots like you always bitching about muh costs. Why do you think the deficit doesn't matter matter for the US? They have the most nukes and largest military. Debt won't matter once you have a gigantic spaceship which could obliterate JP Morgan, Equifax, Transunion and so on off the face of the earth if they fared to raise muh not financially viable spooks like you. Your post is like trying to tell grug not to build a bigger club. Kill yourself.

>>12527475
>It's just a question of when simulating something like this will be easier and less resource intensive than actually doing it, but I'd wager humans will get to that point before we're even able to visit another star.
Never happening. Moore's law is ending soon so all the fantasy transhuman bullshit is cancelled.

>>12527487
>they fared to raise muh not financially viable spooks like you
dared

>>12527484
Nothing wrong with a little economic planning.

>>12527447
And it then proceeded to vote itself to death over the next century.

Even democracy itself has little in common today with the original democracy they used.

Compare Democracy of 200 years ago compared to today and it may as well be a different system entirely. Has the US gotten stronger since civil rights even?

Democracy may work if done properly, but it sure as shit isn’t the case today.

>>12527494
>Government is corrupted due to central planning, society is shit because of social planning, economy has been in a complete shambles and only a fraction of it's original productivity ever since economic planning was introduced.
>I know, we need more planning!
Seems like central planners are always causing the problems they claim to be trying to solve. Just give them more absolute control and surely the problem they created will be fixed!
Seems to me that the only problem is the central planners.

>>12527465
I’m talking about a star spanning empire here, I mean it as the only government and only real nation.

Any argument you have against fascism relies on it getting destroyed due to external reasons, but in this scenario it would be the sole government or at least the only relevant one and no other governments would exist so what do you have to say about the internal government of such a nation?

How likely do you think NatSoc Germany or modern China was to internally collapse.

>>12527497
>vote itself to death over the next century
Lesser countries have been claiming that since 1777.

>>12527174
/egg/?

>>12527520
Inevitable, because central planning rots societies from the inside. Bureaucrats will never be content to simply keep a system ticking over, nor do they even have the competence to manage such a hypercomplex project. They will inevitably meddle, inevitably invite and/or create corruption, and thus inevitably kill the system of government from the inside.
The pains the US is suffering right now aren't exclusively the result of foreign meddlers or political subversives, the second central planning was introduced and codified into this system a death clock was started for it. The only hope for it's survival is the rejection of central planning, not the addition of yet more.

space politics general

>>12527022
reddit
>>12527487
4chan

>>12527538
As much as we hate it, space politics is a big part of spaceflight

>>12527413
He's trying to look more like his penis.

>>12527514
I mean you don’t need a centrally planned economy to be fascist, you can have the option if necessary as Germany showed it wasn’t that common except in emergencies like the war and even then they only went all in with total war in as late as 44.

Aside from that it was economically no different from any other western economy.

>>12527538
Day of the rock drop soon.

>>12527482
If you found out this instant that you live in a simulation, would you actually think your life became inferior to what it was a few seconds ago? It doesn't matter, we have no way of knowing if we're in base reality or not and any evidence could just be fabricated.
>>12527488
Simulated realities don't necessarily require Moore's law to continue, there are various ways to decrease the computing power needed down to something that wouldn't require impossibly huge computers. You don't have to render a tree falling in the forest if no one is there to see it. Things would just have to appear to be right to the observer.

>>12527514
100% of governments engage in economic planning.

>>12527342
14!

>>12527548
Drop heavy orbital loads on smooth brains like this >>12527022

>>12527543
Hah I know, I’m just having a go. Speaking of politics though, any update on that planetary protection bullshit that was posted at the end of the last thread? I swear to god... what if Musk gets shut down right before he prepares to launch the first set of supplies to the red planet

>>12527552
And so far 100% of governments have failed to pass the test of time, especially if you're talking about the timescales envisioned for interplanetary or interstellar government, assuming such a thing is even practical (which I don't).

>>12527410
More like the snort cloud.

>>12527560
>what if Musk gets shut down right before he prepares to launch the first set of supplies to the red planet
Domestic atrocities in minecraft

>>12527560
It's unlikely, he's put the moves on the military and every administration, Democrat or Republican sucks the MICs cock no matter what fluff bullshit they spew about whether or not they like military spending. If Starship becomes a piece of equipment that can be adapted for military use, Biden would happily take a starship straight up the ass rather than interfere with it's development.

>>12527533
Until China explodes I’m gonna just ignore you lad. Not to be a dick or anything, but people have been claiming China is gonna kill itself for a while now and I’m still looking forward to it.

Even North Korea is still here and they take your complaints to another level, they seem more stable than ever if anything.

It’s hard to sit in a nation currently falling apart before my eyes with ungodly amounts of internal conflict at every level while the gooks are so united that they would probably sacrifice their life’s for their people.

>>12527549
>If you found out this instant that you live in a simulation, would you actually think your life became inferior to what it was a few seconds ago?

Yes. I'd constantly wonder what the real world is like, and if possible, attempt to enter it.

> It doesn't matter, we have no way of knowing if we're in base reality or not and any evidence could just be fabricated.

Thinking like a Christian now; placing your fantasy simulation beyond a reachable burden of proof. Simulation hypothesis was disproved years ago by the discovery that some phenomena are impossible to calculate.

>Simulated realities don't necessarily require Moore's law to continue

I don't think you understand how shit inefficient computers actually are. It would be much simpler and efficient to just make a real, actual version of whatever you intended to simulate.

>>12527577
You fucking swallow chink propaganda so easily man, and you do it for fucking free. I'm sure China is also 100% coof free and there's definitely nothing to pay attention to in spite of the fact that they've simply switched off telecom for more than 20 million citizens in virus effected areas. I'm sure their super quantum stealth plane (with engines inferior to 1980's Russian milsurp that belch smoke like a coal fired locomotive) have already secretly made them the world's unilateral ultrapower.
Authoritarians are, as usual, unswervingly fucking gullible and will eat shit happily from the asshole of whichever government spews the most outrageous propaganda.

>>12527560
That’s something that I think people genuinely would kill over, imagine how unpopular a government would be if they did that?

>>12527590
Once again, until the fat lady sings I simply won’t care and an economically flawed nation like North Korea would still be preferable to live in if I was a gook as I wouldn’t have to fear my government intentionally flooding my nation with millions of ethnic aliens just to increase the national GDP by another percent like democracies in the west have done.

>>12527615
Please, please renounce your citizenship and get the fuck out then. Fucking do it.

>>12527615
North Korea forces North Korean women who have been impregnated by Chinese men to get abortions because they value racial purity it's basically the Burgundian System

>>12527620
My loyalty is to my people and running never solves problems. Better to try and fail than to simply run.

>>12527624
That sounds pretty good. Shame more governments don’t show such a solid dedication and loyalty to their own race.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433766/rocket-lab-founder-peter-beck-planetary-alignment-does-not-stop-for-covid
Good Peter Beck interview

>>12527652
Whenever I launch rockets with two side boosters in KSP, I get stability problems and small deviations from a straight ascent due to the boosters not aligning perfectly. How do actual rockets get around that?

>>12527586
>Simulation hypothesis was disproved years ago by the discovery that some phenomena are impossible to calculate.
That's such a ridiculous claim to make and to ignore the open debate the still exists. There is literally no way of proving or disproving it and I would only have a burden of proof if I claimed we live in a simulation, which I didn't. The appearance of randomness doesn't mean that things are truly random, the appearance that something is impossible to calculate doesn't mean it is. It's ironic you said that I'm thinking like a Christian when you believe you're in base reality simply because you want it to be true.
>It would be much simpler and efficient to just make a real, actual version of whatever you intended to simulate.
That's like saying it would be simpler to make GTA in real life than on a computer and the rate of simulations are only increasing with technology. It would be more dependent on efficiency than simplicity if it's technically possible in the first place. Energy is very abundant in the universe, living humans require much more than computers and if we're brains in a vat the amount of energy and computing power it would take to simulate our existence isn't that great. We've already begun to simulate our own realities, it's just going to get more and more real.
>I'd constantly wonder what the real world is like, and if possible, attempt to enter it.
Not to beat a dead horse but you would never know if you reached the "real world".

>>12527012
Correct. SLS will take us to the moon and then to Mars in the next few decades.
China will go the way of India.

>>12527679
>china will geopolitically isolate and surround china

>>12527670
Thrust vectoring

>>12527673
>That's such a ridiculous claim to make and to ignore the open debate the still exists.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28959729/
Calculating some natural phenomenon would require infinities and it is impossible to calculate infinities, so the simulation conjecture is dead as a doornail.

>>12527673
>living humans require much more than computers

Humans literally use less watts than the average desktop computer.

>>12527728
Not him but he might have meant computing power in terms of keeping track of every atom and every interaction and every force and every subatomic particle that makes up a single human body. It would take too much processing power for a computer to model trillions and trillions and trillions of atoms forming complex molecules and chemistry. One human cell alone would be too much for a computer to simulate with our current tech

>>12527534
engineering games general

>>12527012
>SLS will reach orbit
Protip: you have to make troll posts semi-believable.

>>12527689
That paper doesn't prove what you're asserting, only that it appears to be impossible to construct a simulation of quantum phenomenon and that it would require more atoms than are in existence. You don't need to simulate quantum phenomenon in order to simulate a world that appears to be real to a observer or a world that seems like it has quantum phenomenon that's impossible to calculate. If the creators had the ability to make something this complex, it would be trivial for them to hide the predictive algorithms, which is so retarded to take something like this and claim it to be fact.

>>12527741
Neurons are better at computing than a transistor is anyway.

>>12527747
>my imaginary friend can do super stuff we can't detect

Okay.

>>12527759
>my imaginary friend can do super stuff we can't detect
No, something able to create an extremely advanced simulation could do things we cannot yet detect, which is why we should keep looking for evidence either way instead of becoming like you, sticking your head in the sand because the idea that we may not be in base reality hurts your feelings for some extremely dumb reason.

>>12527776
>Mothman is real
>Actually Mothman can't be real because his wing size wouldn't permit him to fly according to these calculations
>Well maybe Mothman has super wings that work special

>>12527047
part of the appeal of space is just how cool looking it is
this looks ghetto and shitty

>>12527131
sometimes i forget he’s an actual person

>>12527248
>genuinely retarded idea
rim world was literally built off this idea you GOD DAMN NIGGER

What weapons would we develop to defend cities/installations from hostile spacecraft when spaceships become far more economical to produce?
What kind would be useful for a Martian city to get pirates to fuck off?
Kinetic or shape charge STO missiles? Ground based gauss cannons?

>>12527302
cryostasis

>>12527797
Ground based lazers powered by fission reactors

>>12527324
it’s gotta burn fuel to move so all that wasted fuel PSHHHHH all over our solar system

>>12527797
Probably rail guns. Most explosives require relatively complex chemistry that may be in short supply on a Martian colony.

>>12527217
wouldnt FTL mean time travel???????????

>>12527779
You keep creating fallacy arguments to mask just how poor your point is. I didn't claim we live in a simulation but you claimed that we don't, which requires a much higher level of evidence and you're incapable of meeting that outside of bullshit popsci articles that don't at all prove what you're asserting. The difference between simulation theory and fucking Mothman is that we know simulations are real and it's technically feasible to simulate human existence.

>>12527814
>you claimed Mothman doesn't exist but maybe Mothman's magic wings simply don't obey physics thought of that huh????

>>12527438
>global superpower to a mediocre has been
nigga the us is still a super power? WTF it isn’t declining

>>12527819
Hidden predictive algorithms for quantum events doesn't violate the laws of physics, you fucking retard. We barely understand this area as it is.

>>12527552
You get economic planning organically soon after you have agriculture and a grain surplus.

>>12527814
>implying mothman isn’t real
You ungrateful fucker. It’s not his fault that no one listens to his warnings.

>>12527837
Why the fuck would Mothman warn anyone that he exists if his goal is to kill them? Ironically this is still more realistic than your fantasy about hunting genetically engineered monstrosities under a biodome.

>>12527728
Not a fair comparison, computers can use energy more directly, we require massive amounts of inputs to keep a controlled climate and to grow the food we need.

>>12527859
>his goal is to kill them
No it isn’t. His goal is to warn people of the impending collapse of poorly-maintained infrastructure by flying around an area right before a disaster happens.

>>12527831
>Dude there could be hidden algorithms in da universe

And maybe if you say "Kumbalumba" 96 times while staring at a blue lava lamp while an entire Kiss album plays, you'll unlock the cheat codes.

>>12527859
A biodome you can hunt in would be easier to construct than a simulation of a biodome you can hunt in, use less energy, and take up less room.

>>12527899
To be fair, have you ever actually attempted that?

>>12527902
Citation needed.

>>12527805
Based and Imperium-pilled

>>12527012

>>12527022
Well yeah, it's designed to be a Mars rocket first and to be a reasonable launch vehicle at a very distant second. It's ridiculously robust for the sort of market we have today - just look at how comically oversized Starship looks on their moon mission proposal art.

I personally think that's why Starlink exists - to give Starship something profitable to do with its' bigass cargo capacity until its' reliability becomes accepted as "tried and tested" and the market adjusts to the idea of having that much more lift available to use. No idea if that's something which will pay off, but that's what I think the plan is.

>>12527899
Hidden algorithms, as in any algorithm we haven't yet found to model quantum systems. The article said something similar to this, which would you know if you actually read it and didn't double down on shit posting.

"However, one cannot exclude the possibility that some inherent physical property creates an obstruction to efficient classical simulations of many-body quantum systems"

Wow, it's almost like they never said this was definitive proof that a simulation is impossible and you're literally making shit up.

>>12527917
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_(supercomputer)

Summit is the first computer that has comparable operations-per-second to a human brain, and consumes thirteen megawatts to do so, compared to a human who uses about 100 watts. For comparison, there's a million watts in a megawatt. It also weighs tens of tons and occupies most of a large room.

>>12527942
>Muh hidden algorithms could exist!!111

That's really cool, anon. Lemme know when you prove they exist. Until then, simulation is impossible.

>>12527951
Now calculate how much energy it requires to build a fucking biodome on another planet and then create genetically engineered monstrosities to house there so that a single person can hunt them.
>>12527959
>Until then, simulation is impossible.
Citation also needed. That wasn't what was stated in the article and you need actual evidence if you're going to claim that simulation theory is impossible. You alone have the burden of proof.

>>12527978
>defending a bullshit sci-fi idea
this shit is equivalent to Mormonism

>>12527022
>nobody will risk launching their billion dollar satellite on a cheap dinky launcher,
the satellite costs a billion dollars precisely because the launch costs are astronomical.

it already costs 100 million to put in orbit, so it cant fail. When youre working with that margin of error, it has to have a fail rate of less than 0.001% that gets exponentially harder.
Now, if your launch costs are 3 million, you can affoard to make a 5 million satellite that has a 1% chance of failing, even if it fails 3 times (less than 1 in 1000000 chance of happening) it will still be substantially cheaper than the other one

>>12527615
Yeah! That's the greatest danger! Other poor people! Not the rich!

>>12528008
kys pinko

>>12527997
It's the apparent natural progression of technology. We're already simulating millions of virtual worlds, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that we'll one day create one that is imperceptible from reality to advanced primates. It's curious how upset the idea makes you, you had no issue with the person claiming that we could spend 100,000 years traveling across the universe but the idea that we live in a simulated reality causes you to shit yourself and constantly reference some urban legend.

>>12528030
>We can make world of warcraft so we could simulate a universe

Anon stop trying to defend science fiction

>>12528033
Do you think it's impossible to trick lesser animals into believing they're in a different reality using computers or just humans? In a few decades we went from nothing to having advanced virtual worlds that would almost seem real to you if that's all you ever experienced, it's absurd to suggest that over tens of thousands of years of technological progress they'll never reach a stage where they feel as real as the world in front of you.

This has as much to do with science fiction as going to Mars does. It's the idea itself that offends you.

>/sfg/ - simulation theory general

>>12528008
Statistically, I am infinitely more likely to be murdered by a poor person than a rich person.

>>12528059
>In a few decades we went from nothing to having advanced virtual worlds that would almost seem real to you if that's all you ever experienced

Cool catch there. "Might seem real if you've never actually seen reality" LMAO

"it's absurd to suggest that over tens of thousands of years of technological progress they'll never reach a stage where they feel as real as the world in front of you."

You have religious faith in infinite technological progress. I don't.

>>12528079
It's not infinite technological progress, it's progress to a point where we can trick a still relatively stupid animal into believing that they're in a different reality. You ducked my question so I'm assuming you think it's possible for non-human animals, say if they only ever experienced the world through virtual reality goggles, but you're morally outraged with a true religious zeal if someone suggests that it's possible for humans. You project your fanaticism onto me.
>Cool catch there. "Might seem real if you've never actually seen reality" LMAO
That's not a catch, it's core to the idea. You have no concept of what true reality would look or feel like, the experience of VR isn't that far removed from the experience of being a human experiencing the world though being a brain in a mechanical flesh suit and we've only just begun to simulate other realities.

>>12527978
Actually you alone have the burden of proof in proving the simulation hypothesis is real, just like the religious have the burden of proof in their claims that god is real.

Occam's Razor favors this being "base" reality, sim theory adds too many unfalsifiable assumptions to be taken seriously as a model of our reality

>starting a thread on page 8 is instant ban
>hundreds of posts of off topic religious sperging is fine
mods delenda est

>>12528097
>It's not infinite technological progress, it's progress to a point where we can trick a still relatively stupid animal into believing that they're in a different reality

There's no evidence technology will improve to such an extent. It's technically fallacious to believe technology will even improve at all from this moment, since such an assumption relies purely on induction. I don't believe we'll see anything but marginal technological improvements for the rest of history DESU, just filling out a few areas of the "tech tree" we knew about ages ago like a liquid-core NTR or something along those lines.
It is illogical to claim humans are "relatively stupid" without some significantly more intelligent other entities to compare us too. As it stands, we are the most intelligent beings known to have ever existed in the world, so we are not "relatively stupid" compared to anything.

>You ducked my question so I'm assuming you think it's possible for non-human animals, say if they only ever experienced the world through virtual reality goggles

They're really retarded so you could probably convince a dog that Minecraft is real.

>but you're morally outraged with a true religious zeal if someone suggests that it's possible for humans.

Humans are really clever so you'd need some science fiction technology to convince us that a simulation is "real".

>You have no concept of what true reality would look or feel like,

Feeling it right now, babe.

>, the experience of VR isn't that far removed from the experience of being a human experiencing the world though being a brain in a mechanical flesh suit and we've only just begun to simulate other realities.

Except it provides only visual and auditory stimuli which are clearly artificial, and can't be smelt or felt.

>>12527217
>He doesn't know

>>12528099
>Actually you alone have the burden of proof
Actually, no I don't. I never said we live in a simulation, I said we could live in a simulation. Stating otherwise, like you did, requires actual evidence which you don't have hence you try to shift the burden of proof and compare it to a theistic position.

Occam's razor is unscientific and it's not proof of anything. It can also be used in ways that I know would make you cry foul, like the everett interpretation of quantum mechanics being the most simple explanation but would be the most wild.
>>12528125
Simulations are on topic, it's counter to the claims made about spaceflight regarding exploration of the universe by humans and the creation of other worlds. Delete urself.

>>12528129
this is bullshit, there are some weird phenomena of physics that we understand as little as the ancient greeks understood electricity (they barely suspected it existed) There's no telling what we'll be able to accomplish next.

Even improvements in engineering not science will be fantasticall amazing in an exponential way

>>12528141
we could be created by god

>>12528141
>I said we could live in a simulation.

Prove it.

>>12527061
Yes

>Starship makes orbit before SLS

Would laugh my ass off desu

>>12528143
>this is bullshit, there are some weird phenomena of physics that we understand as little as the ancient greeks understood electricity (they barely suspected it existed) There's no telling what we'll be able to accomplish next.

No guarantee whatsoever that we'll somehow figure out how to exploit marginal anomalies to make the soul-sucking industrial system even more powerful. Technology started stagnating in the 70's.

>Even improvements in engineering not science will be fantasticall amazing in an exponential way

More ways for engineers to make life worse. Lovely.

>>12528141
>Simulations are on topic
No they aren’t. Fuck you.

>>12528165
Seems very plausible at this point.

>>12527091
Being serious, possibly a prototype cargo bay, RVACs, full heat shield, better legs, raceway for external electronics.

>>12527744
NASA: 30% women
SpaceX: 14% women
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/sd-oe-spacex-diversity-women-20180215-story.html
>Elon's making a big mistake lol

>>12528129
>Except it provides only visual and auditory stimuli which are clearly artificial, and can't be smelt or felt.
They already have smell-o-vision and sensory suits for VR and if they're clearly artificial, it doesn't seem to stop people from jumping into walls.
>They're really retarded so you could probably convince a dog that Minecraft is real.
Try a retarded human. Just keep moving the goal posts to anyone who isn't you, because you know what true reality is, right?
>As it stands, we are the most intelligent beings known to have ever existed in the world, so we are not "relatively stupid" compared to anything.
Nigger, humans get tricked all the time by extremely simple technology and basic schemes, it's clear we are relatively stupid compared to the possibility of greater intelligence. It isn't hard to conceptualize unless you're being deliberately obtuse and trying to drag the argument into the weeds, which is why I'm just going to stop responding to your nonsense.
>>12528150
Yes, I don't give a fuck about people claiming that despite me not believing it. This is the power of not having autism.
>>12528157
I have no obligation to prove it.
>>12528170
Prove it.

>>12527936
Starlink exists to fund the ridiculous costs of fueling a 10000 ship fleet to mars every 2 and a half years

>>12528176
>I have no obligation to prove it

You...have no obligation to prove something you claimed?

>>12528175
AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>12528209

>>12527146
old glenn lmfao why is this so funny to me. sounds like the name of a mountain

>>12528209
I come to these threads to forget about retarded bullshit like that.

>>12528213
>astrophysicist
>doesn't know how to use hyperlinks

>>12528223
lmfao

>>12528134
lmao the fucking tic tac meme, what will they think of next

>>12527022
quality bait my dude

>simulation spergs are at it again

Could you please fuck off and stop shitting up the thread? Thanks

>>12527217
Who needs FTL when you're immortal? We'll figure out how to copy minds long before we figure out how to get negative energy or tear traversable holes in spacetime.

>>12528240
huh?

>>12527015
See you on Mars.

>>12528213
Do american universities really? Those titles are fucking ridiculous.

>>12528243
We have stuck your immortal brain in a tank for a hundred thousand years on your journey to your destination. Enjoy.

>>12527026
>no * Hide filter for sfg
>no launch Top filter for sfg
What are you doing?

If SN9 just had two successful pressure tests, why are they still doing more pressure tests? Isn't it static fire time?

>>12527017
Zero G cage matches. Slingshotting wacky races.
Soon.

>>12527026
for sci I meant. I'm retarded too apparently.

>>12528266
Who said they're doing more?

>>12528268
Zero G robot wars, no weapon restrictions, only weight classes.

>>12527831
If we're in a simulation why would the simulation physics we studied have to have ANYTHING at all to do with real world physics?
I hate when people try to make any predictions based off of this.
I guess the common argument would be that this simulated existence is a simulated universe trying to test run... something... so physics would have to be close to base reality. But that's just one imaginable scenario no more likely than an experiment to see what happens when all the basics are fucked up beyond recognition.

>>12528276
NSF

>>12527652
Beck is incredibly based. really awesome that he's bankrolling an astrobiology mission to venus. Could you imagine the shitstorm if he found something?

>>12528165
It's happening. They have an entire year plus change at least.

>>12528259
Yeah with superadvanced VR, and probably millions of other virtual people. Just get up to relativistic speeds, turn down your cpu rate, and hundreds of millienia will feel like a few decades.

My point is, be careful about looking at things from a purely human perspective. Because the people doing space travel in the future may be completely posthuman.

>>12528290
when?

Are there any good "year in review" articles for this year's spaceflight? Alot happened and I want to see what people thought were the highlights.

>>12528309
Estronaut had his gay astra awards, Off Nominal had their yearly off nominees

>>12528309
Year in review summed up for (you)

>spacex good
>rocketlab good
>everything else bad

>>12528209
Imagine that sentence making sense to you. I wonder what brain shape you'd have to have

>>12528209
If Alison Coil can have a Phd in astrophysics, it begs the question: why on earth can she not write articles about astrophysics?

>>12527022
If it can put 100 tons into LEO, think of how much it can put into GTO or farther

>>12528209
checkmate atheists

>>12528402
about 20 tons (without refueling)

>We’re going to try to catch the Super Heavy Booster with the launch tower arm, using the grid fins to take the load

Oh shit, big ass lightning strike on nerdle cam

>>12528373
gun poster always making me laugh

>>12528464
timestamp?

>>12528485
There's been several the past 20 minutes

>>12527131
hoverslam jeff's mom. gradually, ferociously.

>>12527022
That is actually a sensible criticism, even if it's visibly intended as a provocation.
The reason of existence for starship is basically create new opportunities, unthinkable before.

>>12528259
A full vr brain can run at any velocity you want, or reinstall itself after some time.
With that kind of tech even a million years would feel like an instant.

>>12527002
Planetary Protection as commonly defined prohibits
>human landings (contamination)
>vehicles that touched earth's atmosphere to touch celestial bodies (aerial microbe contamination)
>utilization of local resources (contamination and destruction of local environment that might carry life)

There is a lot more. Remember that even the Opportunity rover was prohibited mostly on PP grounds to approach a spot with suspected liquid water, that's a machine that's been sitting there for many years now and has followed decontamination protocols.

If some of these are "lax" enough even then a human mission to anywhere will be utterly impossible due to sheer complexity and cost involved to preventing said contamination. NASA's 90's Mars plan that costed the equivalent of trillions of today's money will pale in comparison to the complexity and cost involved to send a human "without harmful contamination".

PP if applied as its proponents desire is ban on spaceflight. If applied in a "lax" form it prohibits any kind of cost effective and as a result realistic missions ie zubrin or musk style, in addition to being a ban to any sort of colonization or settlement on legal grounds.


If you are interested in seeing the amount of crazy involved in these arguments do read the following paper, grand total of 8 pages including cover:
>https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2010/2010.08344.pdf

>>12528576
>Opportunity rover was prohibited mostly on PP grounds to approach a spot with suspected liquid water
4ASS should chip in and send a cubesat with a payload of "PP" at that spot

>>12528576
obviously it will be imossible to avoid contamination with human mission.
i have a feeling that these contami9nation protocols are just used as excuse to avoid doing things. lets take cassini for example. after it run out of fuel, it was destroyed in saturn atmosphere to avoid contaminating saturns moons. but how the fuck would that happen? they could put it in some high orbit instead and turn it into stacionary satellite. how would cassini teleport on surface of any mooon then? and how would microbes survive impact with any moon?

btw. is there any organism that coud thrive on mars and colonize whole surface if left unchecked? some algae maybe? extermophi;e bacteria? maybe such organism could be genetically enginereed?

>>12528209
>>12528213
>The lack of diversity in tech is not a new or unnoticed issue.
>Studies abound on how diversity leads to stronger companies, higher revenues and more effective teams (https://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/organization/our-insights/is-there-a-payoff-from-top-team-diversity; https://hbr.org/2016/11/why-diverse-teams-are-smarter).).
>Somehow Musk is either unaware of these studies or just doesn’t care (https://www.wired.com/story/why-men-dont-believe-the-data-on-gender-bias-in-science).).
>The former is unimaginable, as any CEO should know about this data.
>It’s easier to imagine that he doesn’t believe that these studies apply to his companies.
>Either way, he’s made a critical mistake.
I wish we could send all of these people the their fantasy utopia universe devoid of white men.
>>12528576
Who made this and why do they matter?
If it's some literally whoberg journalist again then you can go with them.

>>12527554
Nope. Read it again. It's not a permutation but a superpermutation.

>>12528694
Whoberg who works for NASA's Ames Research Center

>>12527342
196 anime episodes is peanuts

>>12528694
On a similar note, I expect there will be many folks who will object to major activity on the moon, similar to how the Natives object to telescopes on the mountains in Hawaii. It's basically uninhabitable desert, but you have to keep these things 'pristine'.

>>12528732
Anything smaller than a huge complex is going to be literally invisible to anything other than fantasy-sized telescopes.

>>12528732
>>12528755
And anything on the far side of the moon will never be visible from Earth.
On that topic, how much material would be needed to draw a dick on the entire near side of the moon? Imagine looking up at the night sky every night and seeing a dickbutt on the moon.

>>12528765
The moon is about as wide as Australia.

>>12528732
Those people just want everything to stagnate into nothingness. Clearly they're suicidal.

>>12528366
Ungyred.

>>12528765
>The Moon of the Earth belongs to America

Who here actually flies something?

>>12528657
You could determine an answer experimentally probably as easy as sending a probe. The answer would determine how hard you look with probes or keep the planet from being contaminated.

>>12528755
That won't stop the complaints though

>>12528134
Literally a balloon.

This whole thing is a contracting scam. Whenever the military gets close to to kicking them out, the ufologists release some out of context bs to the press and hype it up, so that Congress will renew their funding.

Or throws something

tall cat

>>12528134
>feet

>>12528654
>i have a feeling that these contami9nation protocols are just used as excuse to avoid doing thing
Anon, the first reason is and have always been science.
We already know that eventually you are going to dismantle the solar system for parts, but until you are capable of actually doing shit why not give a little more time to get pristine sample until it stop being new?
Meanwhile you train on the moon.
Most reasons to go on Mars are just PR stunts and colony won't be done in one day, we may not even be ready to have human living in a different gravity for years.

>how would cassini teleport on surface of any mooon then?
Loss of control, a few slingshot and collision

>and how would microbes survive impact with any moon?
Plenty of microbes are capable of surviving worse
We are worried some might even survive reentry.

>>12527035
This is the most retarded thing I've ever read

>>12527038
No wait, THIS is the most retarded thing I've ever read

>>12528901
It doesn’t matter if microbes contaminate other planets, at all.

>>12527131
>richest person in the world pretends to feel human emotions

>>12528834
>it’s a balloon trust me bro

Okay glownigger

>>12528165
The enormous seethe of oldspace against Elon “He smokes pot” Musk will fuel humanity for generations.

>>12528777
Stagnation is good; hopefully industrial society will collapse and we can go back to monke.

What's your goals guys?

>>12528243
>we’ll figure out impossible fantasy before we figure out impossible fantasy haha

Imagine wanting to live in a sardine can for thousands of years to get to another solar system even though you’ll 100% change your mind about the whole idea very quickly and probably go insane.

>>12528933
Find the person who called me a retard on 4chan and beat them to death.

>>12528300
Then humans aren’t colonizing the universe and the whole premise has invalidated itself. “Posthumans” aren't humans and should be killed
Good thing sci-fi nonsense like that is impossible .

>>12528834
The whole story was from an actual fighter pilot: https://youtu.be/aB8zcAttP1E?t=4264

>>12528933
Kill a moose with a bow and develop chiseled abs. Live a superior and more fulfilling life than any Martian autist who has only ever seen a forest during their thirty minutes of permitted television usage.

>>12528939
good luck, retard

>>12528755
>implying the people that are bothered even look at the moon

>>12528947
Yet it's not sci-fi nonsense that humans would be put into a stasis for thousands of years so they can traverse the galaxy?

>>12528916
For science it does. It make their jobs harder.
On the long term? It doesn't bother me if you transform Mars into a jungle with genetically engineered dragon or stuff

>>12528654
>protocols are just used as excuse to avoid doing things
Because that's exactly what they are.

I urge you strongly not to check on the history of planetary protection and the names that will pop up.

>>12528966
It’s all sci-fi nonsense.

>>12528970
Fuck “science”. Past it’s direct applicable usage, which is unaffected by bacteria from earth being on Mars, it is nothing more than a hobby that billions are wasted on. Find the ore deposits so we can dig them up then fuck off back to academia jerkoff contests

>>12528694
>I wish we could send all of these people the their fantasy utopia universe devoid of white men.
We could. We could drop them off on some remote island without internet, electricity and other amenities and tell them "good luck".
But there's not much popular support for such a plan, unfortunately.

>>12528947
>>12528966
When it come to colonization the more important question is "Why?".
Peoples leave when the grass is greener somewhere else, if they are after more power or if they are fleeing power.

We have enough resources in the solar system to all live like gods for a while before singularity make prediction impossible.
If we are fleeing each others it mean we are a failure as a civilization, same if we are just self-replicating human goo.

Just giving you guys a fair warning to lessen the inevitable heartbreak and seething.

Musk is going to be stabbed in the back. The elite oligarchy will never allow him to colonize Mars. NASA itself not only has no intention of setting humanity up to colonize space, it will actively pull strings to prevent it. This is why their bloated contractors are dragging their asses with the SLS project, not simply to make money. They do just enough with their funding to keep the masses complacent.

Space colonization would provide the only means of escape by the masses from the globalist technocracy. If Musk's projects become a threat to them they will tie him up with whatever bureaucratic red tape they can throw at him to shut him down. If he persists, the DHS will straight up seize the company's assets and arrest Musk.

>>12528971
This has to be a joke.

>>12528987
>Implying Musk is not part of globohomo

He literally wants to microchip people.

>>12528983
>We have enough resources in the solar system to all live like gods for a while before singularity make prediction impossible.

There’s no evidence the “Singularity” is possible and no evidence “omg infinite resources” is a good thing. There’s actually evidence to the contrary.

> If we are fleeing each others it mean we are a failure as a civilization

>omg people aren’t a homogenous fucking Hivemind we failed

Kill yourself collectivist

>>12528987
Musk is part of said elite oligarchy by the divine right of having TESLA share.
If colonization doesn't happen it will be for political reason.
The US would not pay for a country that don't give it something in exchange, and if somehow it's self financed the US/UN will take cheap coercive measures to prevent it from becoming a plutocracy.

>>12529006
>The US would not pay for a country that don't give it something in exchange

Israel offers nothing in exchange.

>>12528993
The singularity have always been a subjective construct, don't be a retard and understand the bit about prediction being pointless beyond a certain point. We've failed numerous time to predict the future, we could go transhuman, digital or fail at both and barely manage immortality.

Good things or not, a solar system worth of resources is what we have around us, it's a FACT.
Are you making a point we should enforce poverty on everybody or something?
For someone who hate collectivist it's strange to not want to give everyone as much freedom as possible.

>Kill yourself collectivist
Spoken like true human goo.
Incapable of seeking new goals for himself than having sex and multiply more than others. A future leech to mankind.

>>12528993
Do you have any idea how many separate human civilizations we can fit inside the solar system based on the resources at hand?

>>12528213
What a useless position, and the person filling it is pretty value-less as well.

I'll tell you how it'll go before the politicians:

>settlement/colonization = colonial imperialism and not a national goal.
The purpose of spaceflight is to advance science and inspire young children into STEM not to relive imperialistic power fantasies. Space is common heritage to all humankind.

>starship/other large landers = excessively large and impossible to decontaminate, will destroy invaluable scientific opportunities in the future.
Large scale uncontrolled private activities hold no scientific value and can cause damage, but also result in worsening diplomatic relations as other nations interested in space science object to the destructive practices non-national entities using legal loopholes for their activities.

>ISRU = cost-reduction driven philosophy born out private companies desire to profit and minimize expense with catastrophic environmental impact.
Sending people to Mars must above all else be done in the safest, most reliable manner possible. Local resource utilization aside from being environmentally damaging and going against fundamental ideas of exploration and the search for life, also holds massive underlying risks to the astronauts. Alternative and more traditional mission profiles can alleviate these dangers at slightly elevated mission cost. We cannot allow desires for cost cutting to endanger the environment and human lives, even more so if they are driven by private corporation's greed.

>>12529038
Depends entirely on the size of those civilizations. No guarantee they won’t condense into a few large states like what happened on Earth, or even form interplanetary empires.

>>12527011
Sums up SpaceX fans perfectly.

>>12529037
>The singularity have always been a subjective construct, don't be a retard and understand the bit about prediction being pointless beyond a certain point. We've failed numerous time to predict the future, we could go transhuman, digital or fail at both and barely manage immortality.

Never happening. The entire premise of the “singularity” relies on rapid technological development which simply no longer happens and Moore’s law which is on it’s deathbed.

> Good things or not, a solar system worth of resources is what we have around us, it's a FACT.
Are you making a point we should enforce poverty on everybody or something?

I think we were better off hunting mammoths.

> Spoken like true human goo.
Incapable of seeking new goals for himself than having sex and multiply more than others. A future leech to mankind.

I’m sorry you’ve come to terms with the reality you’ll never have kids, but it isn’t my problem you’ve failed to achieve such a basic primal goal.

>>12529047
It's more a question of if they're forced join larger states or if resources are scarce enough to warrant war, otherwise there is still no real reason to leave the solar system and they would just maintain their independence.

>>12529065
War is cool, so hopefully there’s a lot of them over resource deposits.

>I think we were better off hunting mammoths.
This guy again. If the techno-primitivism LARPers would leave their basement for once and stop shitposting on /sfg/ we may just be able to go a single thread without talking about the same shit ad nauseam.

>>12529094
Don’t tell me you’ve never thought “I’d rather be shooting a laser beam at a tiger instead of moving boxes around at Walmart”

>>12529046
you will never be a woman

>>12529053
From some point of view it's already happening. It have always been subjective and even the people who claim (out of pride) that they know everything that matter still end up surprised all the time by a new development.

>Moore’s law which is on it’s deathbed.
A point precisely in favor of the theory. Moore's Law was a prediction, surprise! I doesn't hold and yet we are still getting more and more intelligent machines capable of visual recognition and deep fake, the ability to use BIG DATA in more and more troubling ways.
We expected most of those and still end up collectively surprised while the experts only understand their domains.

>I think we were better off hunting mammoths.
Write anon on his computer connected to a worldwide network.
I really hope you are being sarcastic

>it isn’t my problem you’ve failed to achieve such a basic primal goal.
It's not a problem at all, but parasite like you are going to be everyone's problem later.

>>12529100
So, you want to use science to revive the mammoth so we can hunt them down again for fun?
Animal cruelty aside I can get behind that, just make it a meat-robot.

>>12529107
>just make it a meat-robot.
what do you think animals are? hell, what do you think you are?

>>12529107
>So, you want to use science to revive the mammoth so we can hunt them down again for fun?
Not him but fuck yeah I do. I don't even care about hunting them I just want to see one in motion, though I'd be curious to try a steak too I suppose.

>>12529100
I don't need to throw a wrench in the progression of humanity just to shoot a tiger, I could do that today. Similarly, there is nothing stopping you from living in the woods and hunting animals with a bow and arrow. It's obvious you're unhappy about your life but LARPing is as pointless as it is detracting.

>>12528953
>Only physical evidence is a video showing a balloon.

This guy has changed his story multiple times and is getting paid by the same organisation that leaked the video.
It's a scam.

>>12529107
>So, you want to use science to revive the mammoth so we can hunt them down again for fun?

Of course. Revive the Pleistocene fauna which lasted until a few thousand years ago and went extinct mostly because of human, and run around killing them at sustainable levels because hunting is fun.

> Animal cruelty aside I can get behind that

Kys vegan

>>12529111
I'm not defining robot as sapient by default, and I consider myself to be more than an automated carrier for genetic cargo.

>>12529116
Note to self: once we finally create genetic dragon, check if it taste like chicken.

>>12529127
I'm ok with meat (or insect). It's just that if you go around hunting creature you didn't optimize I'll consider hunting (You) for sport and as a public service (pest control you know...).

>>12529120
What is the “progression of humanity” and why is it desirable? The general consensus seems to be that “human progress” will eventually consist of ceasing to be humans and modifying ourselves to meet the needs of the industrial system, unlike the man of the Stone Age or 1500’s who used primitive ancestors of industrial technology to change the world around himself rather than using it to warp his own self to be more compatible with a nightmare of our own creation. This is already occurring with tens of millions of people doped up on drugs to counteract the discomfort and malaise and pathologies that modern life spawns. What’s the point? To eventually birth some sort of demonic artificial intelligence that replaces us and devours the entire universe or to plug ourselves into virtual reality and fuck anime waifus forever?

Sounds awful.

>>12529107
>Write anon on his computer connected to a worldwide network.

>I think we should change society somewhat.
>Yet you live in society! Curious

> It's not a problem at all, but parasite like you are going to be everyone's problem later.

I’m fine with causing a problem for your creepy new world order fantasies.

>>12529138
>eventually consist of ceasing to be humans
You seem to think we can just stop evolution for us and the other animals on Earth, we cannot even if it was desirable. Either way humans as we know them are going to cease to be and regression into a primitive state just causes more suffering as they then develop technology again. We don't know if malaise from technological adaption is an inherent state, it's probably treatable, and as far as humans go we've only been in this state for an extremely short period of time.

The difference between us is that I don't have any illusions about primitive life being so much better, all the evidence points to it being hellish and the fact that you don't currently live in a primitive way and you're writing shit on a computer is telling. At the very least you should go build a cabin and spend some time in the woods, as I have done and cease constantly posting about your teenage angst fueled fantasies.

>>12528293
I hope this is the beginning of low-cost, privately-funded interplanetary missions.

>>12529048
lol what

>>12528576
Will Beck even be allowed to search for life on venus?

>>12529219
Who will stop him

>>12529139
>I think we should change society somewhat
>let's never reconsider our 'basic primal goal' and multiply mindlessly
Bet you my new world order fantasies would be more utopian and maximize freedom/happiness better than your anarcho primitivist tendency.
Black humor aside, I wish you to end up digitalized in a Dyson sphere where your appetite for primitivism and multiplying indefinitely can be ethically managed by downclocking you (to meat speed) until the heat death of the universe.

>>12529182
> You seem to think we can just stop evolution for us and the other animals on Earth, we cannot even if it was desirable

We could reduce selection pressures to those encountered only by Hunter-gatherers, which is desirable. It’s technically a form of “evolution” for red junglefowl to slowly change into fat unhealthy hens stuck in cages but that’s artificial selection and inarguably has done the opposite of aggrandize them.

> Either way humans as we know them are going to cease to be and regression into a primitive state just causes more suffering as they then develop technology again.

The modern industrial system reduces human wellbeing; it does not increase it.

> We don't know if malaise from technological adaption is an inherent state, it's probably treatable

Feeling bad because of the unfulfilling and dreary nature of the world created by industrialism? Just consume these drugs and you’ll no longer have a problem with your living conditions! Altering humans to make them happy when we should not be happy is a thinly veiled way for the ruling class to create an obedient slave population which is unable to rebel because they find their shitty living conditions perfectly acceptable. You’re a useful idiot.

> The difference between us is that I don't have any illusions about primitive life being so much better, all the evidence points to it being hellish

All investigations into the mental health and subjective wellbeing of hunter-gatherers show them to be pretty happy; though this data is admittedly limited in bulk. You can only deem it “hellish” from the position of one habituated to modern life.

> and the fact that you don't currently live in a primitive way and you're writing shit on a computer is telling

Lol
“We should improve society somewhat.”

“Yet you participate in society! Curious.
I am very intelligent.”

>Primitivism sperg spends another day of his life in front of a computer telling you that technology is bad.
God I hate this faggot. Clean it up, jannies.

>>12529236
>let's never reconsider our 'basic primal goal' and multiply mindlessly

Yes. Trying to deny basic human desires is a meme pursued by sad people who suffer from misanthropy, and only makes your life worse. Your interest in transhuman fantasies is a coping mechanism for a life you find unsatisfying, and equivalent to religion. You will never experience such things and will die with, at most, a Google microchip in your brain that beams ads into your dreams. If we’re going to fuck around in outer space, we might as well spread through the entire cosmos and evolve into a myriad of forms, diverging to such an extent we are practically xenos to eachother. Such is the course of evolution.

> Black humor aside, I wish you to end up digitalized in a Dyson sphere where your appetite for primitivism and multiplying indefinitely can be ethically managed by downclocking you (to meat speed) until the heat death of the universe.

I would rather commit suicide, and such a system would inevitably be destroyed by another artificial intelligence focused only on conquering the universe; more powerful because it devotes no clock cycles and no mass to simulating realities for other sentients.

> Bet you my new world order fantasies would be more utopian and maximize freedom/happiness better than your anarcho primitivist tendency.

You could argue putting a microchip in someone’s brain that makes them permanently happy and plugging them into a virtual reality simulation where they are God maximizes “freedom and happiness” but sane people find such an idea discomforting at best.

>>12529273
>You can’t criticize a thing if you use or partake in the thing

That makes no sense.

>>12529219
Who is Beck???

Anyways.... remember the saturn V?

>>12529288
its my favorite hydrogen rocket

Remember the space shuttle?

Remember myr?

Remember the abort test?

>>12529297
It was a beater. Cosmonauts had a pair to go through all its issues and emergencies

>>12529281
Actually it's a core tenet of Anarcho-primitivism, most proponents admit that it's hypocritical yet necessary to further the goal. No one besides you has made an argument for wasting away in front of a computer when you could be living primitively. Get a fucking life, you absolute loser. This is a thread about spaceflight, there's no reason for you to be here.

>>12529316
>Actually it's a core tenet of Anarcho-primitivism, most proponents admit that it's hypocritical yet necessary to further the goal

Accusations of hypocrisy are technically a form of ad hominem and irrelevant to any argument. It’s an “appeal to hypocrisy” fallacy.

> This is a thread about spaceflight, there's no reason for you to be here.

Spaceflight is cool

>>12529321
>One big appeal to nature fallacy used against techology
>UR THE ONE USING A FALLACY BY SUGGESTING I SHOULD DO SOMETHING THAT IS COMMON SENSE
Just when I thought this argument couldn't get any more retarded...

>>12529286
Peter Beck, the eternal kiwi, only other commercial rocket company

Today is the Universes birthday(prove me wrong), say something nice about it!

>>12529330
>One big appeal to nature fallacy used against techology

“X is good because X is natural” is fallacious because there’s no wider explanation offered. “X is good because X is natural and natural is good in this context because Z and P evidence.” is perfectly acceptable. It’s unnatural to have weird plastics in the water supply that fuck with animal hormones so it’s definitely arguable that a more “natural” water supply in that context is desirable.

>>12528977
>it is nothing more than a hobby that billions are wasted on
Do you have any idea how many things we have in modern day are the result of rich people throwing money at a hobby?
Or at least a hobby that turned into a business.

>>12529340
Every day is the universes birthday

>>12529286
A mildly popular musician. Alternatively, the CEO of Rocket Labs.

>>12529344
Except that physical health, social health, and almost every relevant metric has gone up substantially with technology so your 'supporting evidence' is all cherry picked and a fallacious attempt to discount the benefit of it as a whole.

Reposting for posterity

>>12529394
>Except that physical health, social health, and almost every relevant metric has gone up substantially with technology
Depression obesity mental illnesses and single parent families have been getting for common for decades fuck are you on

>>12527093
>goes to sleep in order to avoid accidentally going too fast

Wait, Super Heavy Booster will not have a legs? How then it wll be able to land on mars or moon without legs?

>>12529415
Only Starship is going to orbit and beyond m8
She has sufficient delta/v to launch off literally every body in the solar system except earth Venus, and the gas giants

>>12529402
what is it about? Lost touch over the holidays

>>12529419
Well it's reasonable, but I somehow always thought that Starship will go on mars with Super Heavy.

>>12529430
You could launch Starship with Superheavy off of Mars if you wanted to bring a gorillion tons of payload to orbit I guess but you’d have to build the Super Heavy on location because Super Heavy can’t reach orbit on Earth

I want Elon to be my friend, and Zubrin too. I almost feel like they're my dads in a way. I wish I could hug them and feel their warmth, smell their cologne

>>12529440
>because Super Heavy can’t reach orbit on Earth
Where does this information come from btw? Have someone done the calculations already?

>>12529404
That happened after the introduction of most modern technologies by at least a generation. You can argue that better tech has contributed to cultural rot, but the first half of the 20th century didn’t have too many issues. The internet probably caused the biggest issues, but the rest has been largely beneficial.

>>12527011
needs more fur

>>12529404
You're just resorting to cherry picking yet again. Lifespan, violent crime, food security, access to healthcare, preventable deaths, and countless other metrics have improved with technology. You have to pigeonhole hole any negative problem onto technology or else your argument doesn't make sense when the problems originate for other reasons that are preventable. Take obesity for example, Japan is very developed yet has no issues with it. We understand more about mental illness now so obviously diagnosis have gone up, and there are billions of people who are satisfied with their life. To say that cavemen were fulfilled and that modern humans aren't is just a really dumb claim to make when you're not even fulfilled by living primitively yourself, otherwise you would do it.

>>12529277
>and evolve into a myriad of forms
Like digital minds, functionally superior and more efficient than meat species, capable of outnumbering you by thousand order of magnitude while being more diverse and yet compatible than you'll ever be.

>I would rather commit suicide
Putting aside that being a human goo you might not be worth considering "alive", this AI of yours would kill a devolved parasite like you even faster.
So you are already committed to suicide.

>You could argue putting a microchip in someone’s brain
Good things we don't let you define what is allowed or possible.
You are not even going to leave Earth fragile ecosystem if you are against transhumanism, though luck spreading through the cosmos.

>>12529462
Violent crime is certainly worse today than in the 50s, by a large margin, and lifespan is declining
Techno gadgets do not change quality of life meaningfully

>>12529445
>Where does this information come from btw?

It’s a logical assumption even ignoring knowing the numbers because all previous attempts at designing single-stage-to-orbit designs have failed and they involved using expensive light meme materials whereas Super Heavy is just a steel tube
Super Heavy is *projected* to have a dry mass of 180,000kg and a total mass, including the propellant of 3,580,000kg, and an isp of 330. This gives a delta/v of 9676, which is juuuuuuust enough to reach orbit without any payload. Those are projections from SpaceX and an SSTO has never worked before, so it’ll probably be a bit worse.

feels good to be back in the saddle, MAX bros

>>12529477
>>12529419
>>12529415
Is this another of those posts where we forget the Starship will be Two stage?

>>12529475
How do you misunderstand a point so badly? Are you doing it on purpose?

>>12529449
>That happened after the introduction of most modern technologies by at least a generation

Women entering the workforce is a direct result of the industrial system hungering for more laborers so you can blame all sorts of sociological phenomenon on it.

> You can argue that better tech has contributed to cultural rot, but the first half of the 20th century didn’t have too many issues.

Uh....gilded age? London being a polluted smoggy hell world? World War 2? Great Depression?

>>12529485
They were asking specifically about Super Heavy’s capabilities

>>12527670
Better control loops than a guy with WASD controls

>>12529475
You're comparing two time periods with a very high level of technology relative to what you're actually suggesting.

>>12529481
Why would anyone willingly board a plane that relies on Boeing’s “expertise” programming so it doesn’t fall out of the sky?

>>12529481
Yes!! Good job Boeing :)

>>12529501
shut up fag

>>12529467
>Like digital minds, functionally superior and more efficient than meat species, capable of outnumbering you by thousand order of magnitude while being more diverse and yet compatible than you'll ever be

Ah yes if only digital minds were anything but sci-fi fantasy mumbo jumbo.

> You are not even going to leave Earth fragile ecosystem if you are against transhumanism, though luck spreading through the cosmos.

You won’t either. You will die on Earth while being a normal baseline human. This shit is just a weird fantasy you think about sometimes because life in the industrial system is lame and provokes one to imagine alternatives.

>>12529500
Violence in hunter-gatherer societies varies a lot between cultures and locations. Congo pygmies beat the shit out of eachother all the time but don’t commit homicide. Sounds kind of fun

>>12529515
Ha, manlents.

“Now look; it’s no question that our societies have made us individually sadder, have destroyed the planet, have forced us into overpopulated, dense spaces that make us miserable and long for a time that we were just a simple animal creature living in the wild.

We are caught up in massive bureaucratic machines beyond our comprehension that we can no longer justify. Our lifespans grow long, while we truly live less and less and less.

All that being said, I really want these robot arms!”

>>12529475

>>12529534
Democracy started declining around 2000 and good riddance

Whats the possibility of using a electromagnetic arm to slow down for soft landing support? Stainless steel would be ideal for magnetic slowdown since its conductive.

>>12529444
i would unironically die for elon

>>12529542
Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current_brake

Now sure how much power they need to operate it, but it might be feasable.

>>12529542
It would be a dummy amount of electricity, but I want to see it anyways.

>>12529541
You know how I can tell you're republican?

>>12529554
Because I’m a fascist and Republicans are closer to my own beliefs than Democrats are?

>>12527827
The US may still be a superpower for the time being, but you are kidding yourself if you think it isn’t declining.

>>12529421
The picture in OP is unironically Elon's new plan to land Super Heavy

>>12527146
>>12527332
unless they stole from spacex (maybe) I don't see them nailing the landing. Just hope that it doesn't crash through the fucking bridge.

>>12529567
It’s declining in relative terms, as it has been since 1945 (when every other possible competitor was a bombed out husk), but it’s still growing in absolute power. The US of 2020 is a hell of a lot more powerful than the US of 1950.

>>12528209
It begins. We will never get off this rock will we?

>>12529580
What’s so bad about that? Nature is fun.

>>12528293
The best he could find is some Bacteria in the atmosphere. Why bother? A better waste of money has got to exist.

>>12529022
>The US maintains an insane negative trade balance.
>Normally this would massively devalue the USD
>US however creates artificial demand for dollars through petrodollars
>If you want to buy oil from most of the world's oil suppliers (US, South America, Middle east) you have to buy them with dollars.
>Middle East is key
>Most powerful country in the Middle east? Only nuclear power in the middle East?
>Israel

They get what they pay for.

>>12529559
Bingo

>>12528209
This makes no sense, how do you reach that conclusion using that reasoning lmao

>>12529585
We could fund more planetary protection instead

>>12529585
Being the first person to find extra terrestrial life of any kind is a big deal. Finding that life has grown organically on the next planet over changes everything about what we think we know about the presence of life in the universe and the possibility of intelligent life. The dissection of that life and understanding its component parts and how they differ from ours is another huge topic.

>>12529588
Wow so clever. I have a soft spot for communist dictatorships since they’re pretty militaristic and headed by strongmen

>>12529594
>He thinks dictatorships are actually led by the dictator.

This is like believing democracies are led by the voters.

>>12529594
I'm actually a Zionist, but that's not related to spaceflight. Reported.

>>12529614
>I'm actually a Zionist, but that's not related to spaceflight.
tardigrades tho

>>12529582
What are you talking about? What would happen to nature?

>>12529625
You can't really check out nature if you're on another planet or in space, can you? Geologyfags who want to creampie rocks would be fine I suppose

>>12529633
I bet geologists would get bored of other planets pretty quickly. Lack of tectonics, weather and sedimentary processes other than asteroid impacts probably makes it much less interesting than Earth once you get over the initial "new planet" hype.

>>12529617
ah yes, L’Affaire Tardigrade. those clever jews

>>12529635
as a geology bro, this is the dumbest shit i've read all day

>>12529635
Pretty sure plenty of moons in our solar system have more interesting tectonic activity than Earth.

>in 2013 Elon predicts humans to mars in 12 years
>in 2020 Elon predicts humans to mars in 6 years
bros, it's fucking happening

>>12529542
wouldn't hitting that field be just as bad as slamming into the water?

>>12529635
I don’t think anyone here really understands just how shitty being on Mars would actually be. The closest comparison would be being stationed on a nuclear submarine where you live a hyper-regimented life in a cramped metal box for months at a time, only Mars is even worse because it would take over a year between launching to Mars at a transfer window, arriving, and launching back to earth at the next transfer window, and there is essentially zero possibility of rescue if something goes wrong. There’s nothing outside but a bunch of rocks, which are significantly interesting only to geologists, the food is all freeze-dried or tasteless hydroponics fare, and it’s impossible to have a real-time video chat or phone conversation with anyone back on earth.

Now that I think about it, it seems like a dumb idea to go at all. Why does anyone want to go to Mars again?

>>12529650
Sure, if you don’t mind being killed within hours by killfucker levels of radiation.

>>12529633
Lmao, who cares.

If you are that interested in nature you can just make a couple domes on Mars and make a forest. Besides how could somebody born on Mars come to miss something they never saw?

And I’m sure we can find plenty of people around here to happily live the rest of their life’s building a future on Mars.

>>12529675
>Yeah living in Vault 101 sounds fine

What traumas made you like this?

>>12529647
why? What's geologically interesting about the moon?

>>12529670
>Why does anyone want to go to Mars again?
Just because, I'm sure you would find people who would want to go there even if they knew they would die in a few weeks.

>>12529675
>Besides how could somebody born on Mars come to miss something they never saw?
I don’t think it’s justifiable to have children on Mars, since their lives will be dogshit. Mmmm metal boxes and radioactive wasteland outside eating tofu and never seen a waterfall in my entire life

>>12529678
i'll let you know after i've drilled core samples across the entire fucking surface

>>12529683
Honestly it's incredibly unethical to have a child in anything less than 1G until we get some good trials with pigs or monkeys. There's no way to predict what effect it will have and there's a very good chance it will leave them suffering for their entire life. Someone really needs to get on that.

>>12529690
>hi son i conceived you so you could live as a vault dweller with weak skinny bones in a bunker with an uninhabitable blasted hellscape outside
the faucet water is 8% antidepressants by mass so drink that if you feel down

>>12529670
It’s kind of necessary for guaranteeing the future existence of humanity and expanding our power to encompass the solar system.

It won’t be easy to start with, but then nothing ever is.

>>12529698
common myth