/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12523035
>/sfg/ space flight general
/sfg/ space flight general

Would a metallic hydrogen rocket be best served with discrete fuel pellets so that the entire block of solid propellant doesn't go up at once?

>reddit virgin faggot general
lmao go back loser nobody cares about popsci musk shit

What's the deal with the long march family?
Why were the 2E and 2F developed from the 2 rather from the 3?

>sun glare made an X in the sky

>>12523049
>What's the deal with the long march family?
if i were a billionaire id pay seinfeild to make a whole monologue about rockets

What percentage of the rocket fuel is completely wasted?

>>12523035
It does look like a penis.

>>12523049
Isn’t the 3 pretty small?

>>12523061
All of it

>>12522941
Vault-Tec calling

>>12523064
A little bigger than the 2, and using the same engine family.

>>12523049
Not for sure but I think the 3 uses a cryogenic upper stage instead of hypergolic in the 2. Idk if that changed their criteria for man-rating or maybe the upper stage didn't have enough oomph on the 3

>>12523061
None of it is "wasted" but not all engines burn at a proper stoichiometric ratio because those engines are crazy difficult to make, like Raptor. Most kerolox engines run fuel rich.

Anyone know where I can read (ie. NSF or the archive) the moment when everyone realised SpaceX wasn't building a water tower?

>>12523073
I guess it's sort of like the Molniya (CZ-3) vs Vostok (CZ-2) family.

>>12523069
please no retarded discussion in this thread, janies act switfly please

>>12523078
fucken wasted half an hour making that image then come back to the thread being nuked >:(

Does SLS have any chance at all?

>>12523072
Huh, it looks a lot smaller in most of the pics.

>>12523086
No. There is no planned integrated testing of the entire stack with Orion. It is built by Boeing. See also: Boeing CFT-1.

>>12523086
It will almost certainly complete a green run in 2021-2059

>>12523035
>lol other thread got nuked
SN9 needs to hop

>>12523086
>The last question was asked for the first time, half in jest, on May 21, 2061

>>12523091
What about CFT-1? The Starliner is doing alright, isn't it? Besides totally missing the ISS a few months ago.

>>12523107
Even a static fire, it's cryo-tested now right? Looked that way today.

>>12523107
what a nightmare, sfg in 2013, what did you talk about? "ohhh, space shuttle got canceled but surely were about to get SLS which will be cheaper! its already an anomaly that the us spent more than one year without being able to go to space, suurely 2 more years of this would be an exageration wed have to just keep on taking the soyuz, surely the goverment would spare no expense to spare us this humillation "

>>12523046
A metallic hydrogen rocket would be best served by being forgotten about

>>12523061
In Raptor, less than 1%

>>12523035
so how we doin tonight fello space farers?

>>12523125
>"man I can't WAIT for the new James Webb telescope, it'll e so much better than the hubble"

>>12523111
>The Starliner is doing alright, isn't it?
I'm on my laptop so I don't have that gif of Big Man Tyrone laughing hysterically, so you'll just have to act as though I did.

>>12523125
/sfg/ only started existing regularly around the time interesting things were beginning to happen in Boca Chica. Before that, there was a sporadic /sg/ that didn't get much traction.

>>12523135
Basically correct, the main problem is they assume that SLS will keep a schedule or even hold onto funding.

tfw Reddit knows and /sfg/ still believes we went to the Mun.

>>12523135
the last paragraph is correct, but what it's missing is that at the current pace Starship will have flown dozens of orbital missions before Artemis 2 and will probably beat Artemis 1 to orbit.

>>12523075
The earliest pic of Hopper here seems to be this one from 17 Dec 2018, and there was already speculation that it was a test article
>>/sci/thread/S10223076#p10223293

OP from the deleted thread here, what the fuck happend? Why was my thread nuked?

>>12523177
It was getting shit up by non-spaceflight talk

>>12523169
No one seemed to give a shit lmao

>>12523038
>>12523191
>/sfg/ shitposting fight general
>>12523137
This.
/sfg/ came into existence in early 2019, renamed from the Boca Chica water tank threads of December 2018.

>>12523191

Oh for fuck sakes, why couldnt the mod just delete the posts instead of my thread?

When do we begin terraforming Mars bros?

>>12523201
Your thread sucked and you need to post body

>>12523202
Nuke the polar icecaps

>>12523202
Activate the alien reactor to melt the ice mantle

>>12523201
It wasn't a very good thread anyway. Not that they ever are.

>>12523210
if anyone's interested this is one of the virgins shitting up the thread, not happy with that he came back for more, please jannies dont let him kill another one

What did SN8 prove with its flight test? It exploded on landing so I'm assuming it was an absolute failure, or am I in the wrong here?

You have been visited by the Elated Elon of /sfg/.
High throost and delta/v will come to you but only if you reply 'godspeed Elon' to this post.

Man, why does every electric thruster seem to take half a megawatt per Newton? This is gay.

>>12523274
godspeed Elon

>>12523202
Terraforming is a meme.

>>12523272
The landing was actually the least important part of the test, SpaceX is using a modified version of the Falcon avionics which has already proven that once the rocket is vertically oriented it can land flawlessly. The test proved that the Raptor engine can sustain a real non-static burn for multiple minutes, shut off safely, and re-light later for a landing without any issues, it proved that Starship's avionics can fly it very accurately using only RCS and flaps (it flew several kilometers away horizontally and then returned to position only a few meters off center of the landing pad) and that the current flap and RCS system is 100% sufficient to perform the whole bellyflop and suicide burn maneuver.
The one issue they had was insufficient pressure in the CH4 header, which has (so they say) already been solved by an easy fix to SN9.

>>12523274
dream on, mars man

>>12523281
those raptors werent really working that hard, throttled back hard the whole way

>>12523217
get your ass to Mars

Anybody want to take bets on when Snine will fly?
I think its got about two weeks. But that might be a bit optimistic.

>>12523272
> controlled assent
> controlled descent
Landing was a bonus objective.

Why are newfags rewriting history? I distinctly remember /sfg/ having a continuous general since at least Falcon Heavy.

Bought some more SPCE today boys, it's on sale B^)

>>12523294
How are stonks in rocket disassembly levers these days?

>>12523289
Based on SN8? Q2 2021

>>12523293
check the archives, because I cant find evidence. launch threads have existed for years, but "sfg" as it exists today began around 2018

>>12523299
They only go up, friend. I don't try to explain it, I just buy buy buy

>>12523310
I see, the only thing Virgin will ever get to the moon is their stock price, never any people or vehicles or any silly shit like that.

>>12523282
my instructions were clear.

>>12523201
The thread was more garbage than spaceflight, easier to nuke and start over.

>>12523293
Why are you too lazy to check the archives and see that they're right and the historical revision is in your head?

>>12523292
*Ascent

>>12523080
What image? Lemme see

>>12523279
Terraforming is awesome and we will terraform everything in the whole universe

salire ferociter frens

The real coin toss in the next year (or two) is whether a fully stacked Starship reaches orbit before JWST. Or better yet, before Artemis 1 (more likely)

are the hydrocarbons on Titan actually, like, useable in a power plant?

>>12523347
how about we start with earth

>>12523274
Godspeed Elon

>>12523356
Look at all of that. What a mess these people are.

>>12523046
metallic hydrogen will never work

>>12523035
why do people always post mk1 when mentioning starship? SN9 looks a million times better, and SN8 looked quite a bit better

>>12523405
Show us your time travel machine

>>12523408
Same reason MSM use outdated/wrong photos for everything.

>>12523202
>>12523217
>>12523279
>>12523347
the first logical step of terraforming would be to create an artificial magnetic field by putting a house sized electromagnet at the mars-sun L1 point, which would pretty much end the radiation issue on mars as well as making mars start naturally regenerating its atmosphere. the next logical step after that would be to begin raising mars' atmospheric pressure/temperature by building a giant solar death ray in orbit essentially and melting the icecaps. if SpaceX moves fast we might get large amounts of liquid water on mars before the end of the century.

>>12523428
you dont need a magnetic field to terraform mars retard

>>12523388
we're venusforming earth

>>12523432
It would sure make it easier.

>>12523356
the nerve of calling for banning/punishing people who disagreed with you and turned out to be right

>>12523436
that's what NSF is all about

>>12523432
faggot, shut the fuck up. by adding an artificial magnetic field, it for one allows the planet to begin naturally regenerating its atmosphere and it also allows humans to walk around the surface of mars as much as they want without having to worry about cancer. now go kill yourself on livestream

>>12523444
wow even more retard than i thought. beyond saving. big retard

>>12523448
you didn't even address my claims kike

>>12523404
NSF has some uber tier boomer sperglords that put 4chan to shame.

>>12523169
Next thread is when the legs were added, and the reactions are great.

This video was posted in that thread. Everything's just so goddamn bare. Look at 1:09 when it pans from the tent to Stargate and there's literally nothing in between. Also the potato quality makes it look like 2005.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=UHGlw9H_OaI

Also, an NSF forum thread from the same time, linked in that thread. Elon confirms on page 6.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47022.0;all)),

>>12523451
I will not waste my time with someone so rude as you

>>12523457
We're correct spergs of course, while they're incorrect spergs

>>12523460
you immediately started off by calling me a retard. are you mentally slow?

>>12523462

>>12523469
based, sfg should start doing this when ULA shills come in and call me names

>>12523465
my potions are too strong for you traveler

>>12523459
Reading through these old threads is a trip. Man, remember when a hurricane stole Hoppy's hat and then they just launched it without one?

Praise Elon, Fabricator General of the Adeptus Mechanicus

>>12523492
based x33 poster

>>12523135
>reusability isn’t worth it because we don’t do much launches

Ahhhhh then why do you even fucking exist, just continue to pay russia for the 2 launches a year !

>>12523285
And yet they still shook uncontrollably to the point of the nozzles hitting each other when they lit/shut off

>>12523333
no, you had it right the first time

>>12523432
It blocks enough solar wind to allow building a shirtsleeve atmosphere which makes everything else retard simple. Crash a bunch of water/ammonia TNOs into Mars and let it bake for a century or two.

>how the fuck did Blue Origin become old space without launching as much as a single bolt into orbit

>>12523510
by hiring oldspace and assuming they'd be able to manage themselves

>>12523510
Jeff Benis was already neck deep in the Beltway swamp. BO is just his final form.

>>12523490
Do you think Grimes does anal with Elon she seems freaky enough but I dunno if he’d be into it

>>12523492
>never ever

>>12523289
tomorrow

>>12523509
Do you have any idea how mind-numbingly negligible atmosphere erosion from solar wind is over human timescales?

>>12523524
0.001% matters when you're dumping 10^19kg of atmosphere on to a planet. That's a lot of extra trips.

>>12523289
next week
>>12523305
they plan on streamlining the test procedures heavily, kind of like the difference between SN5 and SN6

>>12523294
> Investigators said the developer of the spacecraft failed to include systems to protect against human error, believing that highly trained test pilots were simply incapable of making a wrong move,

Kinda reasonable to assume the test copilot won’t engage the air brakes when throttle was full and they were about to go transsonic
Kinda unreasonable to not have some sorta failsafe against “kill me now” buttons...

>>12523510
>>12523513
Also they're operating on timescale like the oldspace. 20+ years to make it to orbit. 10+ years to develop a vehicle. And so on.

>>12523533
Only ambition is to reenact Apollo and reenact ISS

>>12523382
Sure, but good luck finding enough oxygen to burn them with.

>>12523544
The rocks on Titan are water ice.

>>12523525
~0.1 kg of atmosphere loss a second by estimates from MAVEN
Mars atmosphere is ~2.5x10^16 kg
Try 0.0000000000000001%, and the proportional losses get smaller as the atmosphere gets denser. The utility of an artificial magnetic field is in radiation protection, not atmosphere retention.

>>12523547
The crust of titan is water ice.

Why didn't the rooskies ever dock two DOS modules together? Why only DOS+FGB?

>>12523538
Under Biden, sure. But if Murica won't make a moon base, chinks will.

>>12523201
There wouldn't have been anything left.:(

>>12523217
>VR posting begins again

>>12523561
>Why didn't the rooskies ever dock two DOS modules together?
DOS can't multitask.

>>12523035
If you put velcro on roof and on boots, you can walk on the roof without artificial gravity.

>>12523579
Not on my watch

cislunar 1000 is happening. in 1000 years, ula will take us to the moon

>>12523658
If you made a tower of pennies representing all the taxpayer money that Boing! and ULA have stolen over the past thirty years you would have a space elevator.

>>12523658
if only they didnt cancel ACES

Aw, bad news, /sfg/. The James Webb Space Telescope has been delayed another [last digit of this post] years.

Even worse, it's going to need another [last digit of the next post] billion dollars!

>>12523673
*last two digits

>>12523662
Oh whoops I'm sorry that was a mistake.

If you stacked the cost of TWO RS-25 ENGINES in pennies you would reach beyond geosynchronous orbit.

A $2 billion stack of pennies would reach the moon.

>>12523691
Not if you spread the pennies over 535 congressional districts :^)

>>12523695
I'm just pointing out that a literal stack of zinc and copper being better at getting to orbit than an RS-25 is alarming.

>>12523695
On second thought, this could get you like 450 mile tall space elevators. Are those useful? Would the Hawaii one be more useful than the Alaskan one?

>>12523701
Yeah, shit is fucked up.

>>12523713
Those are useful for dangling from LEO orbital rings, and since bulk room temperature superconductors will be ready before SLS that's a reasonable point of comparison.

>>12523504
Source?

>>12523720
They weren’t shaking uncontrollably but two of the Raptors did smack into each other. It wasn’t a big deal but the engine that got dented also was the once that stayed lit during the landing burn.

>>12523673
>>12523675
Topkek

>>12523724
Do you have the timestamp?

>>12523724
Find a timestamp I need to see this

>>12523730
>>12523750
> https://youtu.be/Znhy9df6tko
Go to 3:41 in the video or when the second Raptor shuts down. Look in the lower righthand corner. The Raptor at the back Right to RSN42 is the one to look at.

Also I’m not good with technology so I don’t know how to post the timestamp

>>12523135
And yet Starship beat Boing's proposal for HLS, lol

SN9 PASSED HER CRYO PROOF LETS GOOOOOOOOO DOOMERS BTFO’D

>>12523784
I hope SN9 hops this year.

>>12523784
fuck fuck fuck NOOOOOOO, why wont they DELAY IT NOOOOOOOO
DO THEY HAVE A PERMIT FOR THIS? WTF

>>12523790
kek

>>12523504
This did not occur

>>12523790
Someone give me a rundown on him. I thought he was cool? His articles on SLS are funny

>>12523547
Water takes more energy to break into hydrogen and oxygen than you get by burning hydrocarbons, numbskull.

>>12523800
Where do you find hydrocarbons on Titan, retard? There’s no oxygen in methane?

>>12523797
foust is just an odd duck, probably just autistic. he means nothing by it, but sometimes seems a little grumpy

>>12523801
Titan's rocks are made of water ice. Only a small portion of Titan is covered in liquid hydrocarbons (methane, ethane) and solid hydrocarbons (the literal tar sands that form widespread dunes). The bedrock and upper mantle of the entire moon is >90% water ice.

>>12523805
isn't the "mantle" of titan a salty liquid water ocean?

>>12523784
literally didnt pass, not sure who told you that. we're retrying for tomorrow

>>12523811
post froyo flavor

>>12523814
hydrolox

>>12523811
Who told you that?

OP is fag as always
previous thread
>>12521687

>>12523823
>The launch was carried out with no obvious anomalies, but on September 27, 1983, during post-flight inspection of the solid rocket boosters, severe corrosion was discovered in the left-hand booster. The three-inch (8 cm)-thick resin lining protecting the rocket nozzle, which was designed to erode about half its thickness during firing, was found to have burned down to as little as 5 millimetres (0.20 in) in places. By some estimations, this left around 14 seconds of firing time before the nozzle would have ruptured, a situation which would have resulted in loss of control and the probable break-up of the spacecraft. It was later determined that this fault was due to the particular batch of resin used on this set of boosters.[

>>12523808
Depends on how you define it. Titan has a subsurface ocean covered in a shell of ice like Europa, then a rocky crust underneath that ocean, then a hot rocky mantle, then a solid core. If you want to you can think of the surface as the crust and the water ocean as the mantle, but then what do you call the underlaying rocky crust and rocky mantle?
Titan easily rivals Earth in terms of the weirdness and complexity of its geologic structure.

>>12523828
very cool which solid booster tho, shuttle?

>>12523848
Titan is a cool place. Maybe if someone makes an engram of my consciousness a copy of me can get to walk across its surface

>>12523852
Yep, Shuttle STS-8, the first mission to carry a black American into space. It almost fucking exploded

>>12523855
Just make yourself some Icarus wings and flap along above it. Dense atmosphere plus low gravity equals flying.

>>12523852
>1983
what do you think?

>>12523856
Lul

>>12523673
What's the new date for JUST now?

>>12523877
October 31, 2021. Honestly thought with how much work went into this thing I don’t care if it flies in 2031 just get the damn thing up there and unfolded in one piece.

>>12523877
2070

>>12523035
Alright SFG I’ve been reading the post-mortem analyses of the N-1 flights and I have one question: WHY THE FUCK DID THE THING KEEP BLOWING UP?

You’d think after the first two failures they’d have their shit together, but noooooo, the third and fourth launches also failed. I know N1 Launch 4 almost made it, but it still failed to test the second third or fourth stages. The N1 is a beautiful rocket it’s just a damn shame that it was so fucked.

>>12523877
>Yes yes, I know, you'd like to know how long
>I'm afraid it's going to take... 9 more years

>>12523890
The launch escape system showed good reliability at least.

>>12523890
Second, third and fourth stages were all statically tested on the ground and considered reliable.
They were fairly confident that the completed fifth rocket would be successful.

>>12523890
Because they didn't test individual components really. Just stuck it all together and pressed go. Bretty based but not good for your gorillion dollar moon rocket.

>>12523701
>>12523662
I did similar calculation way back when
if you burned the money as 20 dollar bills to power Falcon Heavy, it would still be cheaper $/kg than SLS

>>12523915
Seeing as the NK-33s could only be fired once, does this mean that the N1 would always have had reliability issues? Like even if the fifth launch went well, the untestedness of the 30 engines would seem to be a bad thing for later launches, too.

>>12523916
Blow stuff up then fix in the aftermath works if your rocket is cheap. The N1 was expensive as fuck. The only rocket nowadays that does this is Starship, but that’s because Raptors cost $2 million apiece and the stainless steel cost by weight of a single starship is $500K or less

>>12523855
>Titan is a cool place.
well that's one way to put it

>>12523921
Kelvin is fucking gay, one of the few si units I hate

>Hurr let's measure from absolute zero instead of some practical reference point

>>12523926
0 is a practical reference point.

>>12523920
>could only be fired once
They need to be cleaned and refurbished, but you can fire them more than once.
The main problem was poor quality control on the first batches, fragile initial plumbing to keep weight down and the underdeveloped KORD engine control system.

>>12523936
0°C is
0 K is not
unless you are calculating thermodynamics, then you will have to have "T-273,15" instead of T
which you are always doing anyway since nobody gives you teperature in fucking kelvins

>>12523947
Oh wow what an inconvenience

>>12523169
post from the same old thread
kek some things never change don't they?

>>12523517
I can see her with a strap-on pounding elon's cute ass.
I kind of envy him actually.
no homo oc

>2020 is almost over
What are we looking forward to in 2021?

>>12523579
Stainless steel is magnetic, magnets is all you need.

>>12523785
Should be perfect for the end of the year.

>>12523990
it would be so amazing to see the flight today

>>12523982
Mandatory vaccinations

SN10 just need a stack and it's basically ready for testing as well. Will we get two starships on the pad?

>>12523517
no grimes is now a barefoot tradwife for elon. she is off birthcontrol for good and sex is for procreation.

Is Musk about to acquire boston dynamics and relocate to texas?

>>12524017
is the second pad even done yet

>>12524028
I think it is, but if you're talking about the SH orbital pad, then no

>>12524027
tesla should buy hyundai

>>12523501
>reusability isn’t worth it because we don’t do much launches
And we definitely dont do more because of money. We just dont want

>>12523492
what woud spaceflight looked right now if that thing was succesful?

>>12524062
The same

>>12523784
i want to lick nippley of that boi

>>12524067

>>12524087
How often do they open and close those outer window shutters?

>>12524062

Bros...

>>12524112
Dont say we didn't tell you this would happen

>>12524112
Just burning money until it gets cancelled.

>>12524112
Can anyone honestly say they are surprised by this?

>>12524112
How will Scott Manley justify this?

>>12524147
By simping at kamala harris on twitter until she gives him that coffee date to talk about rockets.

>>12524112
Really? Does USA govt want to be cucked out of Moon/Mars by SpaceX? Because that's what will happen if they don't keep the deadline.

>>12524135
ARNIE 2024

>>12523274
Imagine if SN9 had tipped onto him right there.

>>12523926
Fahrenheit > Kelvin > Celsius.
Celsius is just the worst parts of both. It tries to be scientific by being based on water but because of that is simultaneously effectively arbitrary for no good reason. Fahrenheit is best for everyday use by humans as below 0 is dangerously cold and above 100 is dangerously hot. It works for the generalizations that our minds work in. Kelvin is based on absolutes of the universe and is unequivocally the best for anything scientific.

>>12524163
They probably will be cucked by China at this rate.

>>12523984
there's not "a stainless steel", "steel" is term as broad as "ceramic"
some are magnetic, some are not
the kind they are building Starship from is non-magnetic

>>12524171
China is not yet ready for manned Moon landings.
That is why Biden can save that money on this term with no consequences.

>>12524187
>Biden
>save the money
Kamala will burn it on gibs.

>>12524163
America is currently being looted by corporations and special interest groups, there's no will to do anything but bleed to death

>>12524162
Why the salt? He's a social media eceleb. Simping for democrats who don't prioritize space has never led to any sort of negative social consequence. On the other hand, simping for right wingers who like space HAS led to negative social consequences on quite a few occasions.
Social media pays his bills. Space does not. It is in his best business interest to shill for things that make him money, as he is not in the position to actually change policy. He's barely in the position to legitimize space flight in the eyes of an average person. A certain proclivity toward forward thinking is required to understand the overarching benefits of space exploration, and, sad as it may be, a sizeable portion of the American populace is lacking in this proclivity.

Work continues at Boca Chica. Big thanks go to Brilliant. Thankyou thank you thank you. Thanks to all my subscribers, Patreons and most all to my amazing team of NEETs who do it for free on Discord. Without you and Brilliant I wouldn’t have been able to leave my wife and job. Thankyou thank you thank you.

Thanks for the SuperChat WalkingTalkingStephenHawking yes I expect we will see men walk on the moon in the 2020. Thankyou thank you thankyou.

>>12523035
Gamedev here and I had a thought the other day, why don't we just build a big tower to pull rockets out of the "difficult" part of the atmosphere? wouldn't that make everything way cheaper?

>>12524112
NASA has been a meme since the end of the Apollo program...

>>12524163
Probably do. It’ll still be an American flag.

Let me get this straight though. Artemis has already given that money to ULA Dynetics and SpaceX right? So they can continue regardless anyway surely. I mean the real boon ultimately was money for the Starship Program.

>>12524240
Atmospheric drag and altitude are relatively negligible compared to the velocity required to get to orbit.

>>12523947
To be honest, we calculated 0°C for water turning to ice in a very specific (Earth only) context. As reference go it's arbitrary.
This is why when I discuss weather with people I always count in Kelvin.

"It's getting chilly isn't it? We were a 273° yesterday and now we are at 265°!"

>>12524243
>muh apollo
not this shit again

>>12524087
Okay maybe I've been here too long, but I want to see grinman shooped in there.

>>12523982
Being happy there's a 2021 at all.

That or an alien invasion along WWIII as the donald declare war on China before leaving office just to fuck with everyone.

What is stopping SpaceX from taking Falcon Heavy, painting the center core orange, paint the side boosters like 5-segment SRBs, stretching the upper stage a little and calling it SLS?
Would save NASA a bunch of money....

>>12523135
Jesus, how dumb must you feel to have posted this, probably shorted tesla as well.

Chad Musk dunking on all simps

>>12524276
>donald declare war on China before leaving office
based

>>12524240
Because most of the "pulling" needs to be sideways to get orbital velocity, and the "difficult" part of the atmosphere is way higher than you can build shit from the ground.

>>12524062

>>12524271
name 1 NOTEWORTHY accomplishment by NASA since then.

>>12524112
So the Moon will soon belong to China:
https://youtu.be/gcU81WUD4vM

>>12524240
Basically : >>12524281
If you want a structure big enough you would need a dynamic structure like the "Launch Loop" concept
Essentially a structure that collapse if you cut the power.

>>12524283
They develop the technology to replace overrated meatbag.
Once we aren't constrained by 8h EVA we will finally get things done.

>>12524283
ISS is literally Space Station Freedom, with MIR II glued to it

>>12524292
Jap will be the first guy to return there after Apollo and he'll do it a fuckhuge space yacht full of drugs disco balls and hookers.

But I give you bugs credit where it's due you might pull off getting a chang in a cuckbox there somewhere around the 2030s if things go well.

>>12524292
That's... that's illegal, but the US will allow it as long as the chinese are using the moon to mass produce plastic garbage.

>>12523982
an end to the glownigger games

>>12524283
>delaying a project from the 90s well into the 20s (if not further)
>delaying a project from the late 1970s/early 1980s well into the 2020s
>not getting the shittle canceled instantly after it killed all crew TWICE
>development of the largest moneysink in the history of spaceflight
But on the other hand:
>gave shitposting african american a few good contracts both sides benefit massively from

>>12524312
>That's... that's illegal
Who's going to sue them? The World Health Organization?

>>12524283
Through supreme levels of fuckery, accident, and retardation, they gave spacex one important contract that might have saved spaceflight for mankind.

>>12524302
They actualy considered using MIR I parts at the time as they where allready in orbit.
Due to political reasons that idea was scrapped.

>>12523504
That's what's called gimbaling retard, and no they didn't hit each other. Why do non-expert retards feel no shame when commenting on things they don't understand?

>>12524328
MIR I back then was in same condition as MIR II right now, literally falling apart.

>>12524331
>entire engine wobble and slam in each other
>thats normal

Hahah no. Do you know what it means if the jet engine on a plane starts doing that? It means wings are falling off soon after that.

>>12524336
Wasn't one module of ISS/Freedom/MIR2 a backup part for MIR I?

>>12524327
Only use of NASA left, once New Space finally takes the big milestones (Mars & Luna bases) old space can be disregarded for the bureaucratic garbage it is.

>>12524338
Ever seen the nozzles of a fighter jet with thrust-vectoring?

>>12524318
They wouldn't have to cancel the shuttle at all, if they were doing their fucking job. In both cases, the loss of the orbiter along with the crew, was result of misjudgement, if not outright ignorance.

>>12524357
The entire shittle programm was the result of missjudgement and outright ignorance.

>>12524221
>Social media pays his bills.
Apple pays his bills and he is just a self hating california tech retard.

>>12524103
ITS BEEN A LONG ROAD

>>12524380
GETTIN FROM THERE TO HERE

>>12524366
Yeah, we should have stick to three man capsule on top of fuckhuge expendable rocket (meant for LUNAR transfer, not orbital) for half of the century, because "shuttle was waste of money".

>>12524341
Zarya was built as the seventh Mir module. Mir isn't an acronym it's a word btw

>>12524388
the people who shit on STS are the same people who think a space station is a waste of time

>>12524402
We had a BETTER space station. It was called Skylab.

>>12524408
>skylab
>better

>>12524408
>better
>falls out of the sky
shiggerinos

>>12524419
It required the Saturn V to reboost it which got cancelled.

>>12524388
Instead of developing the shittle, a simple 2-stage keralox rocket would have done the job for less money.

>>12524422
>It required the Saturn V
That doesn't make it better

>>12524422
then how was it better?
being "not the ISS" does not automatically make it better
more soulful, maybe, but in no way better

>>12524427
Congratulations, you have just became the CEO of ULA.

>>12524422
They were expecting to boost it with Shittle, but took too long to get that up, and a solar flare also made Skylab deorbit sooner than was expected.

>>12524436
ULA didn't even exist back then and uses either hydrogen first stages or russian engines.
I'm thinking about something more like Soyuz/early Falcon 9 and less like Delta.

>>12524408

Made some OC

>>12524476
Gay.

>>12523274

godspeed Elon

he really didn't know about this?

>>12524422
It required a Saturn IB (Skylab-5) to boost it.
And a brand new Skylab B with a Saturn V to launch it was built but never flew.

last night there was a lot of activity under SN9. Preamble to static fire?

imagine that ULA has hired hitman to kill elon musk. woud you jump between musk and assasin to take bullet for him instead?

>>12524528
Of course not fuck humanity we are cancer and leaving this rock means spreading.

>>12524312
>that's illegal
Please, the donald signed a few papers to allow industries to exploit space resources. You can't complain about the Chinese doing the same.
That's what happen when you prioritize unilateralism over multilateralism.

>>12524508
At times I think people who actually work for a living don't have all that time to follow every meme.
But hey maybe it's just me.

>>12524437
You have to understand, they cannot be seen agreeing with anything that go against the narrative of government=bad, else the other monkeys will bash them.

>>12524450
Bros we could have had Shuttle missions to Skylab in 1980

>>12524476
I applaud the effort and the artistic choice but thematically it should be the opposite.

"low effort" gravity assist would be seen as lacking in audacity, a virgin thing.
while the Chad say fuck you to physics and using brute sikytion

(that do match the original VirginvsChad meme)

>>12524437
>how was it better?
Significantly more habitable volume and a mount point for a space telescope. An ISS style truss with Skylab sized modules attached to it would almost be worth bending into a circle and spinning up.

>>12524587
>we could have had Shuttle missions to Moon in 1980

Starship uses a LOT of energy for the flip maneuver. If they could plumb the rocket engine exhaust throught he RCS nozzles, they could land it horizontally. There's no problem at all with having a third fin. It would only cause interference in the situation where they wouldn't be able to roll the ship.

>>12524609
If they put moon capable wheels on the shuttle and filled the cargo bay with extra OMS tankage then maybe.

>>12524615
SkyLab to MoonLab more likely.

>>12523766
They... don't touch each other. None of the raptors hit each other. Why are you saying that?
These rapid movements are thrust vectoring and SN8 was rapidly accounting for engine shutoff to stay balanced. I agree that it seemed very aggressive, but this is cutting edge technology being made right before us.
The raptors were in full control of their movements the whole time, the gimbaling system is rock solid and tight, the raptors cannot move unless the hydraulics allow it.
I can't tell if you honestly believe they hit or are trolling, but let it go.

>>12524476
pretty based, saved.

>>12524617
It's the one way a shuttlestack + LEO + LLO + dedicated lander architecture would have made a lick of sense... or they could augment the shuttle with a NERVA tug between LEO and LLO at twice the Isp and a tiny fraction of the dry mass.

>>12524612
>Starship uses a LOT of energy for the flip maneuver.
Lemme get a source on that sempai.
flipping isn't that hard, its timing that needs to be dialed in.

>>12524615
Still wouldn't make it. Shittle to the moon is a meme.

>>12524612
>Starship uses a LOT of energy for the flip maneuver
They literally just used some RCS and fins to tip it over, and a couple seconds of engine burn to flip back vertical.

>>12524612
They spend maybe 2 seconds burning horizontally

>>12524475
>they're willing to blow up that many starships instead of making a mini starship or even making a reusable F9 second stage

>>12523274
godspeed, Elon

>>12524644
>They spend maybe 2 seconds burning horizontally
They need to flip it and then stop it from flipping anymore. The inertia on that thing is HUGE. They 'd have aced it on the first if it landed like this.

>>12524587
It's true, I wonder how that would have affected which docking port Shuttle used.
>>12524609
It still wouldn't have been good enough to go to the Moon, at least not without d**o*s.
>>12524599
Chad memes are often done both ways for the same pairing. Plenty of cases!

>>12524641
>and a couple seconds of engine burn to flip back vertical
Rotational inertia, bro

Do you know how much fuel they burn in those few seconds? Enough for a soft-touch in horizontal position

>>12524652
RCS thrusters aren't big enough to allow the necessary thrust for a suicide burn with a ship this size.

>>12524612
Starship does the belly flop to begin with because it reduces terminal velocity and thus reduces the amount of fuel needed to land. Starship falls at ~68m/s while Falcon9's pencil configuration falls at something like 200+m/s terminal velocity, It's a significant difference. And it's better to do a quick flip than to add the extra weight and complexity that would be required for a horizontal landing. And how do you expect a horizontal landing to work on mars? There are no cranes to put the thing back upright.

>If they could plumb the rocket engine exhaust throught he RCS nozzles
you can't just stick a tube onto the end of the combustion chamber and redirect it wherever.

>>12523784
What gay porn is this from

>>12524312
> That's... that's illegal

Who cares? Fuck Outer Space Treaty

>>12524639
Well, It's a space SHUTTLE, dumbass. I'm sure you would prefer to send people from Earth to the Moon in huge tin cans, but Shuttle would do it better, and comfier.

>>12524693
All I'm saying is that the shuttle would have NEVER EVER made it to the moon, even if you filled the cargo bay with propellant.

The moon starship should just be called the "vacuum starship". It can do vertical landings for places with no atmosphere, and flop for returning to Earth.

>>12524027
Doesn't softbank own boston dynamics?

>>12524654
>Chad memes are often done both ways for the same pairing. Plenty of cases!
That's true.

Now gimme the opposite version of >>12524476

>>12524097
i dont know

>this thing likely won't get anyone to the Moon sooner than 2026

>>12524726
>in development since 2006

>>12524282
was the x33 even capable of getting any meaningful cargo up to GTO or beyond?

>>12524729
The design was not capable of orbit with an empty cargo bay.

Lol I'm watching star trek discovery, and there's a line where someone is being compared to the Wright Brothers, Elon Musk, and Zephram Cochrane. Pretty based if not funny.

>>12523460
nigger

>>12524342

>>12524658
Then make them big enough, Elon

>>12524738
About the highlight of the entire series. That was S1e2/3 as I recall. Just to warn you that show does not improve.

>>12524687
This. The Outer Space Treaty is ultimately meaningless. It doesn't even have punishment provisions

>>12524818
As of now it's also unenforceable.

>>12524312
it's no different than the Artemis Accords' "Safety Zone"

>>12523879
Imagine if it burst into flames on launch. I wonder would people effectively give up on nasa, the reactions would be incredible.

>>12524833
>when someone violates your lunar safe space

>>12524812
Star Trek is very hit or miss, but when it hits it's really fucking good. DS9 had lots of good ones

>>12524850
Whooos, you violated the space-NAP neighborino, that's a lasing for you friend.

>>12524729
No.

>>12524850
>he doesn't know

>>12524675
>you can't just stick a tube onto the end of the combustion chamber and redirect it wherever.
You literally can make plumbing so that you can use the RCS nozzles serve a dual purpose (methane combustion nozzle or cold gas nozzle)

I'll make a MS Paint drawing and send it to Elon

>>12524756
>complains about energy efficiency
>just shove dead mass on the side and carry it around everywhere bro THAT's efficient

>>12524868
SPEHS CAHPS
HERECOMESPEHSCAHPS
PLAYITCOOLHERECOMESSPEHSCAHPS

>>12524872
This has actually been considered by people smarter than you and there are issues, the general problem being primarily related to propellant flow. The gaseous RCS proposed simply will not have enough gas available to do the maneuver on top of lacking the thrust.

Keep in mind at least a single raptor is needed for the landing, ergo if you don't have one or the equivalent of one on the side then the landing will not be soft.

>inb4 well just place one there!

>>12524240
We'd be better off putting a rocket/EM sled up a mountain to accelerate rockets.

>>12524240
so a shitty space elevator?

>>12524504
>why the f*% knot
Why the fat knot?
Is this some furry callout?

>>12524240
>~10000 energy points available
>~1200 lost to gravity
>~150 lost to atmosphere
>the rest spent on getting and staying in space

This is why trying to engineer some hellish contraption or launching from Everest just to make the atmosphere a bit easier to beat is fruitless.

How competitive do you think non engineering jobs are at spacex? I applied, but I am a wurm. Working there seems like it would actually mean something though.

>>12524930
1% of 10% get the job. It's the hottest place to work for as an engineer, aside from Tesla. Be competent and imaginative.

>>12524702
Imagine it RUD's on the moon on their first manned mission because they didn't try with a mini-starship before

>>12524873
>just shove dead mass on the side
You need to spend more energy to turn and then break than you need to lift the "dead mass" of different nozzles and plumbing

>>12524902
>The gaseous RCS proposed simply will not have enough gas available to do the maneuver on top of lacking the thrust.
I know, which is why what I'm proposing is replacing the RCS nozzles with nozzles that can function either with cold gas or by burning fuel

>>12524956
Cold gas is even worse, if you weren't aware. As for the other, it was already mentioned.

>>12524927
TBF that's not the whole story, there are significant ISP losses in atmosphere as well

>>12524388
>we should have stick to three man capsule on top of fuckhuge expendable rocket

like, this would have been not ideal but objectively better than the shuttle from any metric

>>12524962
Elaborate? Most rockets spend around 100m/s dealing with drag.

>>12524704
Not anymore, got sold to Hyundai earlier this month.

>>12524969
Maybe not fuckhuge, but F9/Sojuz sized and keralox fueled in the 1970s.
Sure, far from ideal, but a medium sized launch vehicle with human rating and a capsule would have been way cheaper than the shittle.
>>12524962
Are you talking about lower ISP due to sea level optimized nozzles?

>>12524956
>>12524957
You're ignoring that elon plans to replace the current nitrogen thrusters for higher thrust methox thrusters

>>12524957
>Cold gas is even worse
Starship is supposed to have methox RCS thrusters anyway. They could land the ship with them if they wanted to and it would be better than the suicide flip.

>>12524923
Donuts too. Must be a brony.

>>12524982
>>12524983
>they can land the ship on the methox rcs
No.

>>12524982
>for higher thrust methox thrusters
Great, makes my plan even more viable

>>12524983
RCS thrusters wouldn't be anywhere near strong enough to accellerate Starship anywhere near 9,81 m/s^2.
They where using several raptors for a good reason...

>>12524975
Isn't hyundai even less likely to sell boston dynamics than softbank?

>>12524983
RCS thrusters will never produce enough thrust to slow down Starship

>>12524988
And they'll be angled because they can't sit below anyway so even more losses. Can be solved by adding many of them but other minor technical problems arise regarding the amount of gas and its container.

Therefor I propose an alternative - hot air balloon deployed before landing.
With the available fuel generating the fire needed to heat the air will be trivial.

>>12525000
>inflatable deployed to reduce required landing thrust
I've done this in KSP it works

>>12524985
>No.
elon has said part of the point of the methox thrusters is to allow using RCS for the flip maneuver.

>>12525014
In that case the issue lies with you. You simply don't understand there are some minor differences between the landing and the flip maneuver. Happens to the best, don't worry about it.

>>12524978
>Are you talking about lower ISP due to sea level optimized nozzles?

yes, if you start in a near vacuum you don't have to have high pressure bells.

Jeff is so sweet. While Elon's out here with goofy names, Jeff shows us the importance of family

>>12525037
>so sweet and here watch me tweet it to millions

>>12525037
Very cool Jeff!
When you getting to orbit? :^)

>>12524956
I'm still mad that NASA cucked Elon into not using the SuperDracos to land Crew Dragon.

>>12524292
Jokes aside, China will soon make cheaper clones of all these cutting edge rockets coming out of the US private industry right now and absolutely demolish the west in the neo-space race

>>12525037
>Jeff shows us the importance of family
When will he show the importance of delivering what he promised or is he still crying over when NASA told him to gtfo for bidding too high while having nothing to show?

>>12525037
His poor dying father just wanted to meet him one last time, and he wouldn't even acknowledge his existence.

>>12525020
sorry i'm tired and i thought you said the flip maneuver

>>12525082
>Just trust me

>>12525037
>The importance of family
>Cheats on his wife of 25 years and mother of his 4 children
Kek

>>12524978
>medium sized launch vehicle with human rating and a capsule would have been way cheaper

>>12525105
They do it to every other major industry, this is next

>>12525122
why is the combination of the strainer and the atlas so ugly

>>12524726
>>12524728
With an annual budget of over a billion just to stand by
That’s how governments operate though

>>12525123
I think china will eclipse every other western company but SpaceX

>>12525131
Because it looks like chinese fireworks

>>12525123
>They do it to every other major industry

>Just trust me haha

China is decades behind America. Paper tiger.

>>12525131
It's no better with Vulcan Centaur.

>>12525154
This capsule was designed from the ground up. Why the fuck does it look like some sort of older design that has gone through tranny surgery? Why does it cost MORE than soyuz? Why where they given the contract over SNC? FUCK BOEING

>>12525154
I wonder what Starliner on New Glen would look like, and if Boeing would ever consider doing that.

BO would probably like the press of launching crew, and Boeing would probably like the press (and savings) of launching with a reusable rocket.

>>12524652
They are doing it in an atmosphere.
The flip is made just by changing inclination and then relying on the whole body to stabilize it, with fins used to maintain balance.

>>12525164
It's basically the Boeing CEV proposal re-worked for the ISS. Not that the original looked any better.

>>12523860
Solids have been heavily involved in american launch vehicle technology since forever

>>12525175
The absolute state

Imagine how incredible this will look. They must have a LOT of faith in their avionics to get this to hit the target so accurately.
>https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1344327757916868608?s=20

>>12525183
I can't visualise it, it sounds insane.

>>12525183
No fucking way. Elon just says shit without thinking at this point lmao

>>12525183
Madlad

>>12525183
Literally impossible spacex on suicide watch.
They'll be bankrupt by the end of the year I tell you sell stocks now.

>>12525183
>>12525190
No, it makes sense. It helps them simplify the bottom of the rocket (no need for landing legs), and just reinforce the grid fins to hold the weight of the rocket, plus the force of it slowly descending into the grasp of the tower's arm.

>>12525183
What's the dryweight on the SH booster? Can it hover with 1 raptor throttling? If yes then its not bound to suicide burns like the F9 and it can pull it off easily.

>>12523339

>>12525183
>Spacex is going to literally slam dunk it's super heavy booster
based.

>>12525183
Sounds like it would be hard to do tests.

>>12525183
I figured that landing the booster back on the pad was one part of the ITS that was left behind. Guess not!

>>12525147
>China is decades behind America. Paper tiger.

>>12525089
Yeah, Jeff does seem quite capable of cruelty. Maybe that's why he's not as successful as Elon, his psyche is not clouded by darkness

>>12525190
You have to land gently anyways
I don’t see the big deal
Grid fins are like 3 meters long
The hydraulic shocks will be on the tower, easier to do it that way anyways

>>12525183
landing legs are really this hard?

>>12525215
There’s a patent for a warp ship that doesn’t mean anything lol

>>12525183

Can someone MS paint this? I can't visualize what it looks like

>>12525233
If you can cut the mechanical risk out, and the weight, then why not

>>12525203
I believe Elon has mentioned that the first test version of the SH booster will perform a hop with 2 Raptors.
I doubt it would be able to hover with the full weight of all of its engines.

>>12525237
Cope

>>12525183
put me in the screencap

>>12525238

>>12525253
Cut off the legs

>>12525247
Call me whrn China actually does lunar sample return. Until then, they're not serious about space

>>12525259
lol

>>12525183
What the fuck? I want to see this happen. Come on!

>>12525260
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_5

>>12525267
Call me when China actually sends commies to the moon

>>12525247
Cope

>>12525247
seethe.

>>12525238
kind of like this

>>12525271
nigga no-one has been to the moon in 50 years, the Apollo mission is a pride of an older generation

>>12525241
If that's the case it definitely can hover, just not on one engine. Cradle landing might actually be doable.

>>12525293
We already won the space race.China can do whatwver they want, they will never succeed

>>12525305
>HAH we already invented the stirling engine, how will the others ever beat us now?

>>12525307
It's ok chinkie, i just dont want you to feel bad over there huffing hydrazine. pathetic insect

>>12525290
Do you think the arms are actually going to be load bearing or are they simply to hold it upright?
There's no fucking way the grid fins would be able to support the weight of a loaded Starship.

>>12525271

China is shit but at least they’re investing in nuclear reactors

>>12525310
>Everyone who says USA is best is commy
How brain damaged are you exactly?

>>12525253
Rip longcat.

>>12525311
Fully loaded it probably will get some support from the skirt.

>>12525290
Why is the grid fin falling off

>>12525271
did this bitch really

>>12525327
It would have to in order for the arm to be well out of the way for launch.