/sci/ - Science & Math

Commercial flights to orbit by Q4 2021

>>12501795
Honestly I'm guessing only starlink flights for 2021. First commercial flights probably Q1 or Q2 2022

>>12501801
Any chance a solid DoD contract with regularly scheduled military flights would help the cause of civilian E2E? Or will it always be intrinsically expensive

>>12501810
>Any chance a solid DoD contract with regularly scheduled military flights would help the cause of civilian E2E? Or will it always be intrinsically expensive
It'd help civilian E2E by creating experience, precedence, government support, and international infrastructure.

>>12501810
It will always be the total launch costs (including fuel, amortized vehicle and GSE costs, plus vehicle and crew salaries), plus any additional margin including profit, all divided by the number of customers per flight

>>12501821
Pad/GSE costs will be high for civilian E2E because they'll need to put the pads far enough away from cities that if a landing burn runs engine rich they don't blow up a populated area.

>>12501825
Its worth nothing though that civilian E2E will probably have around 500-800 people per flight, which certainly helps with reducing costs a lot.

>>12501815
energia was such a cool rocket. Shame we'll never see the sequel

>>12501827
True. $2 million divided by 500 is $4k a head assuming the same cost as an orbital launch.

>>12501818
Exactly what I was thinking
>>12501825
Obviously pads would cost a lot of money, and you need to build boats and they have maintenance costs of their own. Maybe airports would be willing to split the cost or pay for it all themselves.
>>12501821
Also exactly what I was thinking. The first time I looked at the numbers I was surprised. Oxygen and methane aren’t exactly expensive, but it ends up costing a LOT more than a plane running on just kerosene fuel

Just rewatched the ITS presentation. I forgot that there was an animation of the interior (though pretty barebones) and mention of E2E. They're about a year behind the timeline presented, which could be worse (he was also off on FH's first flight by a year). Also, it's interesting how they went from begging for cash for the ITS to how Starship is coming along today where SpaceX implies that they don't even need NASA funding.

>>12501832
It'll be interesting to see how low they get the costs for in-house LOX and methane generation. I hope we see a giant solar farm and battery installation go up at Boca Chica sometime in the next few years. I've got my fingers crossed for a huge activity ramp-up once the Starlink cash piles start rolling in.

>>12501841
They need mass solar powered LCH4/LOX generation to make Starship capable of launching from Mars after all. Doing their own for E2E is just good practice.

>>12501835
The ITS animation is some of the greatest kino ever

>>12501835
>Also, it's interesting how they went from begging for cash for the ITS to how Starship is coming along today where SpaceX implies that they don't even need NASA funding.
Stainless steel is a hell of a drug. Also in 2016, they hadn't even launched the Tintin test sats for starlink, and were likely not as optimistic about the program turning into the revenue stream it now looks like it will be. Insane to think that less than two years ago it was just Tintin A and B, and now they've got, what, 900 or so in orbit?

>>12501835
>where SpaceX implies that they don't even need NASA funding.
>tfw they don't need any money from NASA because boca chica swamp land and muh steel material costs them basically fuckall so they can develop Mars rockets for pretty much free so long as FAA niggers will issue permits

>>12501866
God I hate that terrible MCR flag so much

ALPACA is cute! Cute!

>>12501873
Reminder that the Epstein Drive is at least physically possible.

https://toughsf.blogspot.com/2019/10/the-expanses-epstein-drive.html

>>12501907
Irrelevant, bad flag is bad

>>12501907
what exactly are we lacking to have it today

>>12501913
epstein

>>12501913
The list is long

>>12501873
>>12501908
>well we have two shitty little moons so lets put them on there
Flags featuring geographical features are objectively the worst.

>>12501810
Military E2E is retarded, and will never compete with strategic airlifters. Also, a hostile E2E would be blown out the sky by any Soviet era SAM, it's a massive target with zero stealth characteristics. Even worse, it could easily be misinterpreted as an ICBM and invite nuclear retaliation.

>>12501937
Schizo theories. A starship could avoid SAM’s with ease. It doesn’t need stealth either. It would probably just replace cargo planes and land at safe airports with safe local airspace

>>12501866
the MCR is a literally full of nonwhites in the show, it's actually hilarious that the writers believe that the future space wars won't be fought along racial and ethnic lines, or that a successful Mars colony wouldn't be for global northerners (with JAXA frens) only.

>>12501937
>>12501947
It would be perfect for the usual US war of btfoing some third world shithole to install a central bank. From dropping into the middle of a country with a functioning military? LOL

>>12501913
Laser ignited fusion that works on fuel pellets flying away from the lasers at 3km/s is a biggie.

>>12501966
>it's actually hilarious that the writers believe that the future space wars won't be fought along racial and ethnic lines, or that a successful Mars colony wouldn't be for global northerners (with JAXA frens) only.
The author is a retard about that. The show is an incredibly faithful adaptation.

>>12501966
You could probably make a "civic fascism" type thing work if you had an honest government, effective propaganda and a fair but brutal police force.

Would the Ares program have worked?

>>12501992
>You could probably make a "civic fascism" type thing work if you had an honest government
>honest government
So a caste based system.

>>12501992
There will be no room for government waste in space. Nothing but free markets.

>>12501980
Can you explain how that works

What went wrong after the shuttle era ended?

>>12502115
Obummer making nasas cause "Global Warming focused"

>>12501947
>A starship could avoid SAM’s with ease.
A starship is basically a much slower and fatter ICBM, it wouldn't stand a chance against yesterday's missile defense. It has the thermal signature of a small sun on reentry. Its also fucking useless for logistics, it will never compete with the carrying capacity of a strategic airlifter, and there's no point in hoverslamming troops down into a warzone. You're better off packing it with a warhead, and OH BOY YOU'VE REINVENTED ICBM's.

And most importantly, launching ANYTHING with a suborbital trajectory is begging for nuclear retaliation.

>>12501992
I can't even imagine one multiracial society united against another one purely based on civics lmao, the concept is more sci-fi than a warpdrive. Imagine being proud of fighting alongside a pajeet for your civic values against white men on another planet.
I guess you aren't wrong that it isn't impossible with some minority involvement, but The Expanse is coping on a whole other level lmao.

>>12502115
Okay what the fuck where they thinking with this fairing design

BOING!

>>12502114
With great difficulty.

But seriously laser ignited fusion is using lasers to push atoms close enough together that they fuse. This is very difficult even when the fuel is at rest with respect to the lasers.

>>12502137
The shuttle stack was designed to hurl over 90 tons of dead weight into LEO. Using it for a capsule is inherently silly.

>>12501966
I want the Poos to come along to piss off China

>>12502127
really dude?

>>12502200
Most GIs at the time said they'd rather lose the war than desegregate.

>>12502182
Its all fun and games until you realise how fucking bad all that shit smells when they cook.

>>12502243
I love Indian food

>>12502270
Me too. But if you, like I have, been inside a whole bunch of pajeets houses who don't know how to use a kitchen extractor fan you would know exactly what I mean.

>>12501992
I don't give a shit what variety of mutt someone is as long as they accept anti-Earther indoctrination.

did they already repair the landing pad?

>>12501795
what you guys keep forgetting with your optimistic estimates is that superheavy won't be allowed to launch on land and they've not yet built the sea launch platform, which might actually take the entire year to complete

>>12502442
"Won't be allowed" makes it sound like there's some special regulatory circumstances for SH which isn't the case. However it is true that the longer they go without constructing a proper diverter and launch mount the more likely it seems that they will go straight to sea launch.

>>12502127
Multiracial countries and societies prevailed in two world wars against imperialistic nationalist driven empires.

History has proven that diversity triumphs over pseudo homogeneity (that isn't even real) plenty of times over the last century and strongly indicates it is the only way to wealth and prosperity for the common person.

>>12502485
I remember reading something about exclusion zones and the faa. The exclusion zone of superheavy on land spills over into brownsville, so the faa cant allow them to launch

>>12502501
>I know nothing about World War 1 or 2

>>12502490
so still at least a year to go
well it could be worse

>>12502235
ok, a more recent example if you feel like splitting hairs

>>12502501
>The 99%+ white allied forces killed the 99%+ white germans and the 99%+ asian japanese so thus diversity triumphs.
Fucking retard.

>>12502554
>whites are one race
Oh no no no, you're not lumping me in with br*ts, let alone wops and slavs.

>>12502490
SH stacking is a bit interesting in that some events must come before it. Either the high bay gantry crane must be installed or that giant blue crane has to move back to the build site.

I wonder how much they pay to use that crane. Assuming it’s a rental. But even it’s not enough to stack starship on super heavy. Rumor has it that they are going to use a massive hammerhead crane for that

>>12502564
>retard can't distinguish between race and nationality

>>12502501
>>History has proven that diversity triumphs over pseudo homogeneity
Mental illness. This is how empires collapse from the inside.

>>12502583
Makes sense. Neither actually exist.

>>12502564
That is against your original point because you're implying that there can be diversity among white people, but this is no longer spaceflight related so I'm just going to stop replying to your stupid posts.

Question: speaking generally how do space agencies go about putting the first and second stages together? How are they joined and then separated in flight? Do you guys think that starship will be any different?

>>12502589
>Neither actually exist.
I
I>
I

>>12502592
It wasn't my point, although I agree with the broader conclusion that willingness to form a coalition is inherently advantageous and thus will tend to win out.

>>12502600
Diverse neighborhoods have lower social cohesion and trust. A diverse “coalition” is per se weaker than if that same amount of people were homogenous.

>>12502583
If I can look at somebody's fucked up face and tell they're a cro-magnon slav or a mangled brit that's a race, fuck science

>>12502589
>the sky is green and has polka dots

>>12502597
The mating happens inside a hangar either horizontally or vertically. In flight there are plenty of methods to detach them, most of them single use for obvious reasons. Starship's detachment and attachment mechanism might be more elaborate because it might have to be used during docking in space for fuel refueling thus some speculate that whatever it uses to hold itself to the booster will be used later again. To add to this, the idea is for mating to the booster to occur on the pad using a crane. All this means conventional things like pyrobolts and other similar one off things used to separate stages can't be used.

Will there be hillbillies fighterpilot jocks on the moon again or it's full stem onions now ?

It will be a technocracy and then later an autocratic oligarchy. It is fated by Spengler

>>12502606
>my feelings are more important than evidence
Left or right, it's the same fucking shit every time with you snowflakes.

>>12502615
It won't fly. But if it did, it would carry only wymin and nogs/lqtbqwerty.

>>12502605
I don't know of any cohesive group of ethnonationalists left outside of maybe China and Japan, and the former is quite willing to pimp itself to black Africans while the latter is quite happy to work in multiethnic multinational coalitions.

Does anyone know of some decent dolphin sex VTHL designs? How do two winged oversized starship tier stages fare? Assuming identical design between them and throttling in one of them to reduce fuel consumption post take off until staging.

>>12502609
Thanks for the explanation, anon. Would you happen to know how the Falcon 9 2nd stage is mechanically attached/detached from its booster? I know that SpaceX prefers to not use pyrobolts or other single-use mechanisms

>>12502663
why? are you a russian or chinese spy who wants to clone it?

>>12502663
Pneumatic pushers.

>>12502501
>Multiracial countries and societies prevailed in two world wars against imperialistic nationalist driven empires.
first of all, WWI was imperialistic multi-ethnical empires vs other imperialistic multi-ethnical empires (and Serbia)
and the most multicultural empires collapsed during it or right afterwards
As for WWII, I'm totally sure it has nothing to do with the fact USA alone had bigger industrial capacity than all of the Axis combined or the fact Allies outnumbered Axis 5 to 1 in manpower (and that's excluding colonies and China)
Jesus, you are even dumber than this guy >>12502127, and that's saying a lot

>>12502674
I wonder if they could use the same thing on starship. That’s a fuckton of mass to push

>>12501815

The entire pictures oozes power. Refined, industrial, high-tech power.

>>12502115
Nothing. The damage was already done at that point.

>>12502752
Well it certainly won't be pneumatic on Starship. But since they can do flaps with Tesla motors I don't see why they can't do pushers with them.

>>12502119
arent c17's fat and even slower? i dont get your point

>>12502119
>Its also fucking useless for logistics, it will never compete with the carrying capacity of a strategic airlifter
u wot? ~100+t is easily heavy lift capacity for an aircraft. All told a long distance round trip with such a class of aircraft isn't exactly cheap either.

>>12501835
The idea to design a Mars rocket and then sell/market/use it for everything else too was a great one. No way space agencies or private investors would've funded a vehicle that was only ever a Mars colony ship and nothing else.

>>12502756
What was the black military chode was supposed to do ?

>>12502756
If they only hasn't rushed Polyus, maybe Energia would't have been binned so easily.

>>12502506
SpaceX should destroy the FAA with an expendable Starship

>>12502820
>Megacorps destroying goverments
pfffff, thats a cliche at this point.

>>12502830
oh why?

>>12502830
Well not the whole thing, just the FAA. Smash it and never again have to beg for permission to fly your own damned silo.
>but muh air traffic!
Just fly around, retards.

>>12502655
'Diversity' is a wide scale, it's not either strict ethnonationalism or open borders. The vast majority of the world population don't live in a diverse setting and don't care about the limited immigration they receive, yet if you ask them if they should become a minority in their own country they'll look at you like you have five heads or get upset that you suggested it.

The same thing will go for most space colonies which will be largely homogeneous but not strictly homogeneous. This is how humans naturally organize when they're not self-hating and manipulated. The only group of people who have been shown to have outgroup bias are white liberals, everyone else prefers to be around their own kind.

>>12502820
Why doesnt spacex consider regulatory capture of tge FAA?

>>12502811

Giant orbital laser system. Meant to both destroy American anti-ICBM laser satellites (From the Star Wars program) and American ICBM's.

rogozin has more twitter followers than big jim (more like small jim). nasa btfo

>>12502840
Can Elon afford the necessary mercenaries? Blackwater is still around under a different name these days I think.

>>12502845
>russian shills reduced to numberfagging over twitter followers
you just hate to see it
the US is damn lucky spaceX emerged the time and way that it did

>>12502772
>>12502785
i think speed is the only advantage a starship has over a c17, and that depends on how easy starship can be loaded with cargo
starship would need new ground infrastructure to be built on both ends unless you don't plan on it leaving the destination end

>>12502839
I find your/the typical idea of diversity and homogeneity is ambiguous and in the end borderline meaningless, as exemplified by retards like the anon who thinks white America is homogenous. In any case you're lumping a shitload of assumptions on me that don't line up with anything I said, just trucking out a general partyline response to phantom liberals who I would trigger just as much.

>>12502841
Shit so the ruskies finally done it. Is it the same thing in the X37-B ?

I was told SN9's test campaign is only 1 cryo and 1 3-engine static fire, then launch. Is that true? Also I thought that was always the case with these, and SN8 was longer because raptors kept getting rekt

did any of sn8's heat shield survive launch/flip?

>>12502883
It had an abrupt reentry back in the 80s, and crashed into the Russian wasteland

>>12502880
>>12502880
Starship potentially carries about the payload of a C17 (hard to say until knowing the payload hit for landing but C17 is 70-80t) and doing the same job with a one or two order of magnitude difference in timescale is a pretty significant difference in ultimate capability. Starship isn't going to replace cargo aircraft, but it definitely has a niche for anything time sensitive.

>>12502909
*If there is a payload hit, I should have said. Don't think there necessarily would be one but just out of caution's sake. Actually given that E2E is subobirtal they could potentially carry more payload E2E than orbital.

>>12502841
It kinda hilarious that soviets take Star Wars program more seriously that US themselves.

>>12502032
No

>>12502909
Starship ODST marines/navy seals when?

>>12502959

Fucking cool.

>>12502137
What's with the offset engine?

>>12502982
$150m DLC

>>12502115
Nothing really went wrong when the Shuttle program ended. It ending just made all the problems American spaceflight had since the end of Apollo more visible.

>>12502501
I wouldn't really say this in those terms. It's more like racism has a reason for existing that's built on a material economical base. Racism wasn't really a thing until the international slave trade was well way on the way. Ideology tends to justify a certain balance of power, a historical development or a political agenda and racism is pure ideology.
So if you got a Mars independence movement in which the different ethnicities live in relative equality and harmony or share similar hardships they want to overcome, the movement will be along the lines of Mars patriotism and not racism. Racism would thus further wither away on the red planet by a process of mutual acculturation and interculturation.

>>12502137
It looks like that giant fairing was designed to hold cargo, it has an ISS module in that diagram

>>12502998
>"Hey we're retiring the shuttle, what do we fly on now?"
>"Uhhhhhh lemme get back to you on that"

>>12503005
>we will test the new crew carrying rocket
>"so the 5 segment booster is done?"
>no this is a 4 segment booster with a dummy 5th segment on top
>"what about the upper stage with the J-2X?"
>still in development and we just used another dummy weight
>"Orion?"
>same
>"so this launch is pointless technically?"
>yes
>by the way the booster will effectively blind any astronauts riding it
Constellation was a mess.

>>12502882
White Americans are largely homogeneous, they're a mix of a bunch of European ethnic groups bred together over centuries and now they're genetically and culturally very similar to each other. This is why forced diversity is ironic because the end result is not diverse at all and it cannot sustain itself without adding in more homogeneous people who stayed that way because of their ethnocentrism. You're free to think that race and ethnicity are meaningless just like you're free to think that color is meaningless because it's also subjectively defined, but nearly everyone disagrees with you and finds this type of categorization helpful. Regarding the assumptions I made, that's because you're refusing to just say what you mean and your point appears to be relatively incoherent.

>>12503031
>>12502882
Merry Christmas anons, unless you're jews.

>>12502115
SLS happened. They should have left its architecture and engines in the museum.

>>12501992
>he thinks he'll have enough resource freedom to institute a police force

>>12503031
retard

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1342062363105759232?s=19
Superheavy hop in "a few months"
translation: never ever. looks like we'll try again in 2022 bros

>>12502200
>imagine the smell

>>12503057
>Superheavy hop
*heavy breathing intensifies*

>wind gust: 44 MPH

>>12502897
yeah, it's visible in a few frames of the video

>>12503047

Any good speculah on how the current Starship will house/deploy solar arrays? AFAIK we haven't seen any new renders of that since 2017/2018 BFR.

>>12503031
I find it very odd that you insist on taking a conservative stance while pushing the liberal agenda of a homogenized, generalized cultureless mass of "white". The idea that everyone finds this useful I would call suspect at best. I guess it's useful if you simultaneously have traditionalist ethnocentric tendencies but no concept of your own identity.
My "incoherent" stance is simply security that my own in-group bias doesn't require special pleading to come out on top. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but germanic peoples have a pretty good history in technical work and I'm fairly certain under truly equal circumstances would maintain a prominent place in space.

>2011, Shuttle program cancelled
>US loses ability to launch man to orbit
>50 years pass
>Still stuck in the well
>Why don't we just rebuild the Space Shuttle?
>NASA lost the plans

>>12503084
Why do you even care

>>12503097
Why don't you?

>>12503100
Because any speculation about it is a waste of time with how quickly SpaceX iterates and innovates

>>12502959
ehhh, very situational, probably never
starship combat drops into a contested area a la d-day are never going to be a thing
closest thing happening would be like the somali landings; no expected resistance and mostly for show

>46 MPH gust

>>12503125
Good crosswind test t-that’s all.
No real danger to the vehicle r-right?

>>12503137
Some autist gonna run the numbers on what kind of gust it would take for her to tip?

So SN8 test flight was the most popular non-covid article on Arstechnica.com

https://arstechnica.com/staff/2020/12/2020s-20-most-read-stories-on-ars-technica/?comments=1

>>12503119
Good point, we'd better get back to arguing about racial politics so we don't waste our precious time on 4chan.org/sci/

>>12503097
>>>/out/

>>12503084
Well it's not going to be like the original renders that's for sure. It wouldn't even look like it belongs anymore, like mixing protoss and terran. Probably just traditional rectangular foldouts, if enormous ones.

>>12503155
Shill your article elsewhere eric

>>12503095
>Why don't we just rebuild the space shuttle?
Because we're not in a race to see who can kill astronauts the fastest.

>>12503155
I hate normalfags news stories. Who gives a crap about covid garbage. Normalfags being turned into rabid doomers by the media is not only evil but sets a dangerous precedence.

>>12503090
I don't think it's odd at all, in the new world race has become a proxy for ethnicity as the independent culture of the various newly formed ethnic groups got eroded by mass immigration. Whatever is left is credited to the national identity which belongs to anyone with citizenship. If American or Canadian referred to a specific ethnic group I would prefer to use those terms but that isn't the accepted definition. This ambiguity was intentionally created and it's now happening in Europe as well, that coupled with miscegenation means that regardless of what you think of the ability the Germanic people, they won't really be around by the time we truly venture into space unless there's great political change. Ingroup bias would be eroded by that point and there will be a bunch of negative side effects.

>>12503191
>Normalfags being turned into rabid doomers by the media
Not the first time, but yeah this time is even worse.

>>12502883
It's the same thing as Zuma

>>12503162
agreed

>>12503155
>Arstechnica.com
Your autism is showing again

>check voicemail
>voyager 2

>>12502076
low iq

Musk holding the title of "Chief Engineer" is the most laughable example of vanity outside of the White House that I've heard in a long, long time.

>>12502501
I hope this is bait

>>12503322
race is irrelevant, but cultural heterogeneity is strongly correlated with prosperity and innovation (and also unhappiness). It's no mistake that most of America's great inventors are first or second generation immigrants.

>>12503155
I love Eric Berger, well deserved

Now that Super Heavy has been cancelled (heavily delayed), can we please focus on more realistic down to earth launch systems instead? Frankly, I am feel very offended at the amount of hopeful borderline lunatic notions being thrown around in these threads about cheap super heavy lift rockets, mars missions, and dear lord colonies of all things.

>>12503360
How about we just forget about space and focus on solving COVID first

>>12503367
Just don't get it. Or do, it doesn't matter.

>>12503318
XD

Upvoted

Black holes get more massive if a photon strays into them, right?

>>12503395
Yes, proportional to the energy of the photon

>>12503403
Then how does a photon not have mass?

>>12503404
retard

>>12503199
I miss when websites looked like this. Now everything is "mobile optimized" and looks like the same boring squares.

>>12503404
they have relativistic mass

>>12503404
A photon has energy but no mass, when it falls into a black hole the energy is converted into mass

The brainlet way of thinking about it is that mass and energy are basically two different versions of the same thing. In reality it's a lot more complicated than that, but i'm not an astrophysicist and i'm not going to try and authoritatively post about something i'm not super knowledgeable on. But yeah, the short version is that when a photon goes into a black hole it's energy is converted into mass.

>>12503414
and shitloads of whitespace, pages buried

Why is it called Starship if it doesn't travel to other stars? It should be called PlanetShip.

>>12503423
no, it should be called fucking gay

How come SN9 has fingerprints on it?

>>12503420
>>12503414
Website:
>Hey, just a quick second: we noticed you have an adblocker. We know nobody likes ads but we need to run them in order to pay for our children's orphanage bills. Would you please consider whitelisting us?
*unblocks ads*
Website:
>CLICK HERE TO WATCH SHREK FUCK JUDY HOPPS IN THE ASS! YOU WON'T LAST FIVE MINUTES PLAYING THIS GAME! TRY NOT TO CUUUUUUUUM!!!!!

So There's a Racist Aboard Your Starship...
An Instructional How-To Video Series in Three Parts.

>>12503434
>Website:
>>Hey, just a quick second: we noticed you have an adblocker
Guess i'm not using your site then fuckers

>>12503431
that's where the crane grabbed hold of it

>>12502893
That’s what NSF seems to think. We’ll see if they’re right

SN8 had more testing because it was the first complete article. They seemed intent on testing every system individually and then testing them in unison. Like WDR -> turbopump ignition -> 1 engine static fire -> 2 engine static -> 3 engine static -> 1 engine header tank static you get the idea. Presumably they won’t have to go that far with SN9

Regarding raptors, SN8 had two replaced. SN39 after a loud honk, and an SN# I forget after pneumatic failure led to bad shutdown and the oxygen turbopump eating itself. In the latter case it wasn’t technically the raptor’s fault. Maybe also in SN39’s case. I’m not sure if engines with ox-rich pumps in general are sensitive to plumbing disturbances or if the raptor itself is hypersensitive.

>>12503431

>>12503434
I want to fuck Judy Hopps in the ass

>>12503440
For real. I used to be like that with YT videos until I discovered Vanced

>>12503436
haha imagine saying nigger on mars. who could stop you?

>>12503416
I just wanted to expand this a little,
when a particle has no mass, it's energy is equal to it's momentum times the universal constant. So a photon's energy is it's momentum times C.

So basically when a photon enters a black hole it's momentum is what becomes mass in the hole.

>>12503443
Thank u for info, have a merry Christmas anon

>>12503455
based

>>12503434
god i wish i could choke on shreks jumbo cock. scientifically speaking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgrMT2OPeFY
>Helicopters might destroy the rail industry
>Better patent a flying saucer
Anglos have always been insane haven't they?

>>12501947
Did you miss the incredibly slow bellyflop down to earth?

>>12501966
Lay off your /pol/ sci fi delusions

>first words on mars
>gas the earthers space war now

>>12503461
I always think of momentum as being tied to an object's inertia, but inertia requires mass doesn't it? So where does a massless particle's momentum come from - the energy represented by its wavelength?

>>12503499
>the energy represented by its wavelength
This

>It's a Mars colony racism circle jerk thread

Check this out

>>12503525
>job requirement: must be comfortable swaying in a cherry-picker 150+ feet up

>the only E2E military usage for starship is dropping troops right in the middle of Tienanmen square
the point is that you can react faster than anyone else. Imagine if the US had the internet while our adversaries were still using physical mail to relay messages. The logistic advantages are more than enough, even if it's not feasible to send down an orbital drop pod into the middle of a war zone.

>>12503516
anons are bored, ok

>>12503434
>>12503440
>Reload the page and stop before that window pops up

>>12503516
>It's a Mars colony racism circle jerk thread
FACT CHECK:
Well AKCTUALLY, racism is implying one race is superior to another, not just stating we are different and should be kept separate.

t. independent /sfg/ debunker.

>>12503604
that's wrong.
you're deboonked now.

>>12503609
Take it up with Merriam-Webster, sweetie.

100 hours in photoshop

>>12503434
>not inspect elementing that shit away

>Arianespace has yet to fly their Grasshopper prototype
>Euro Falcon 9 flies in 2030
>Euro starship doesn’t even exist in paper
Goddamn what happened? They dominated space like until 2015.

How hard would it be to place a pair of Hydrolox vernier engines on the side of the Ariane 6 first stage to allow it to land on a barge down range?

>>12503634
Right now just one paper Starship proposal would be the most exciting thing going on in Spaceflight outside of SpaceX.

>>12503634
Check the velocity at which the stage separates and compare to Falcon 9. It's pretty much orbital.

>>12503639
I'm unironically waiting for the chinkoids to do it. Depends how well entrenched their old guard is in the hydrolox-srb meme and whether SX might not be shaking them up courtesy of party members asking questions.

>>12503525
This is not aerospace grade construction work please delete.

>>12503644
China is retarded when it comes to rocket reusability. Long March 8 flies with landing legs in 2023. They also fell for the Hydrolox meme and all of their next Gen rockets have a booster with a Hydrolox sustainer core

>>12503525
Why does the booster need so much gay scaffolding?

>>12502772
yes, and the airlifters are flying to established FOBs, not hoverslamming into enemy airspace. The point is starship is useless for ferrying stuff from base to base because an airlifter does it 100x better, and it's incapable of directly striking the enemy without getting intercepted.

>>12503666
Nope, C17 is too slow, they'll just get shot down you fucking retard

>>12503461
Okay but then why do physicists believe a Kugelblitz is possible?

>>12503666
And thats why the military wants to put anti air turrets on starship.

>>12503666
>The point is starship is useless for ferrying stuff from base to base because an airlifter does it 100x better
There's no substitute for speed.

>>12503666
If you were using Starship for direct strike you would just have a giant ICBM. It's not interdiction you have to worry about then, it's escalation.

>>12503693
Kill the enemy before they can escalate

>>12503525
With SN10 tucked away out of view and BN1 front and center, does this mean that BN1 will be stacked first?

>>12503670
I have no idea what the fuck that is.
Like I posted earlier, i'm no astrophysicist, I just have a really basic understanding of relativity and physics because it pertains to space. Ultimately i'm more interested in the space flight/engineering aspect of space, hence why i'm posting itt.

>>12503456
based fellow vanced user

>>12503630

>>12503496
Newtypes are the master race. If I ever make it to Mars I will be preaching Contolism

>>12503666
>an airlifter does it 100x better
The C-17 costs around $250 million and can carry 77 metric tons between airfields at 0.75 Mach. Assuming Starship can carry 100T in its E2E configuration, it will be significantly cheaper, faster, and less dependent on large runways to operate. On top of that, while airfields are susceptible to simple attacks by runway cratering bombs, Starship can land on unprepared flat surfaces. The only advantage carried by traditional cargo aircraft is the capability to airdrop paratroopers and supplies and the fact that they run off of jet-A instead of methane.

>>12503732
Starship running on methane is a necessity in order to keep up actually, jet fuel is so much more expensive than methane that fuel costs are much closer than they otherwise would be.

test

>>12503666
>benghazi attack happens
>black hawk down happens
>starship sends a platoon or two from the US to anywhere in the world in 30-40 minutes
>closest airlifters are few thousands of miles away and takes 10+ hours to get there if there's refuel logistics in place or few days/weeks with logistics to be setup along the route to get there
I think Starship has its roles

>>12503740
Yeah, the advantages of using kerosene derivatives are solely due to the fact that the entire military fuel infrastructure is set up to use it. Transporting methane at the same scale wouldn't be difficult enough to outweigh the advantages a cargo starship could bring to the table.

>>12503670
Because it’s the same thing as a black hole, just made from different stuff that isn’t mass but still fits in the equation just fine

>>12503742
The US was previously looking to develop stealth airlift platforms due to concerns about the survivability of the current cargo fleet against a peer-level foe. Considering it would require anti-ICBM class weapons to intercept the vehicle outside of launch and landing, this would fill that role quite well.

>>12503630
Why does it have to be the incel frog instead of the original?

>>12503423

>>12502841
Hold up, is that some janky version of a FGB towards the top of the stack?

'Twas the night before Spacemas, when all through the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse;
The stocks were sold short by the broker with care,
In hopes that Elon shitposts soon would be there;

The anons were nestled all snug in their threads,
While visions of plasma drives danced in their heads;
And mama in her 'kerchief, and I in my cap,
Had just settled down for a long winter's ap,

When out in the VAB there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
Away to the window I flew like a flash,
Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash.

The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
Gave the lustre of space-walks to objects below,
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But an old CSM, and eight tiny reindeer,

With a little old pilot, so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.
More rapid than Raptor-based rockets they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;

"Now, ARMSTRONG! now, LOVELL! now, COLLINS and ALDRIN!
On, COMET! on SHEPHERD! on, VON BRAUN and MITCHELL!
To the top of the porch! to the top of the wall!
Now dash away! dash away! dash away all!"

As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky,
So up into orbit the coursers they flew,
With the sleigh full of toys, and St. Nicholas too.

And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof
The prancing and pawing of each little hoof.
As I drew in my hand, and was turning around,
Down the chimney St. Nicholas came with a bound.

He was dressed in red spacesuit, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot;
A bundle of toys he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack.

His eyes -- how they twinkled! his dimples how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the beard of his chin was as white as the snow;

>>12503799

The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath;
He had a broad face and a little round belly,
That shook, when he laughed like a bowlful of jelly.

He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself;
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
Soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread;

He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
And filled all the stockings; then turned with a jerk,
And laying his finger aside of his nose,
And giving a nod, up the chimney he rose;

He sprang to his ship, to his team gave a whistle,
And away they all flew like the down of a thistle.
But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight,
HAPPY SPACEMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD-NIGHT!

>>12503689
logistics win large scale invasions, not speed.

>>12503676
ah yes just slap a tail gunner on the rear, B17 style.

>>12503693
>>12503754
Flying anything in an ICBM trajectory will be interpreted as a nuclear attack, and will invite nuclear retaliation. You just can't do it. Nobody uses ICBMs with conventional warheads for good reason. ICBM launch = mutually assured destruction.

>>12503732
you have to be retarded to think that hoverslamming a spaceship will ever be within several orders of magnitude of the operating costs of an airlifter.

>>12503742
Benghazi could have been prevented by having 200 marines on hand in the first place, Clinton fucked up big time. No starship could have solved that level of incompetence.

Honestly seeing this complete and utter lack of understanding of anything warfighting related makes me question everything else I read here.

>>12503732
>The only advantage carried by traditional cargo aircraft is the capability to airdrop paratroopers and supplies
Spacedrop when

>>12503799
Very lovely

>>12503805
>Benghazi could have been prevented by having 200 marines on hand in the first place
You're retarded. If we had could predict the future and do everything right the first time, we wouldn't need any expensive system. We can just ship out on slow tanker ships few years in advance before the event happens. BUT we don't have foresight or magic powers. We are dealt cards due to imperfection information network. This is why we can only react and try to do the right thing afterwards.

>>12503806
Wasn't there a reentry "vehicle" that was basically just a chair?

>>12503816
the point is that benghazi was entirely preventable, and would have been prevented in a functional chain of command. Having the ability to hoverslam a starship is addressing the symptom and not the root of the problem. No superweapon can make up for the level of gross incompetence that was displayed in the events leading up to benghazi.

>>12503830
Your point is off the mark on why Starship is needed. My point being the world is an unpredictable world thus you can't prevent everything. The lapse in judgements happen all the time, we're human. This is why we need counter measures/failsafes to augment and cover our mistakes.

>>12503805
>logistics win large scale invasions, not speed.
you know what the biggest bottleneck in logistics is? Getting things from one place to another. If they can move shit around faster than the brass can make a decision on where shit needs to be they have a logistic advantage.

>>12503823
Just a bag of foam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOOSE

>>12503805
>logistics win large scale invasions, not speed.
Wrong. Logistics is resource management. This includes scale/speed/cost/etc. If it takes 10 years for you to deliver something, its worthless when the enemy can deliver it in 1 hour. Speed is the absolute critical thing, speed saves time, money and unnecessary potential future risks. This is true in war, economics, love, etc.

>>12503805
>you have to be retarded to think that hoverslamming a spaceship will ever be within several orders of magnitude of the operating costs of an airlifter.
If Starship can hit its initial 2m design goal it's well within an order of magnitude of a C17, which is a cheap plane to operate, over a long flight. I'm not assuming it will easily hit that, but the potential is there. If you factored in the revised 1m goal and extra payload it draws in the distance further, of course.

>>12503805
Wow retard spotted

>>12502841
Would it have actually worked?

>>12503752
Then how is mass measurably distinct from energy?

>>12503886
It's not.

[math] E = mc^2[/math]

>>12503877
Yes it would’ve. There is a timeline out there where we have space battles between Gemini MOL’s and TKSs in LEO all the while Polyus is blasting lasers as invading Space Marines while listening to 80’s music

>>12503917
Elon should've said Dogecoin for the memes.

>>12503805
>logistics win large scale invasions, not speed.
Compared to a C17 a starship carries more, has greater range, is faster, can just go over hostile airspace, has lower unit cost, is easier to mass produce, is projected to have an order of magnitude more units in operation, has fuel that can be easily produced in the field, can go to space, doesn't require an airstrip, doesn't require a pilot.

C17 is slightly cheaper to operate

Starship is some hotshit ustranscom agreed don't bother them about it

No cap bruh Starship/Superheavy is gonna fly in 2022. Superheavy is taking mfin forever bruh

>>12502072
It is also possible that Mars will assign new colonists a spouse of Mars' own choice. You're huwite? Your kids won't be. You'll get hooked up with a Maori. You're under 100 IQ or you look like you might have schizo genes? You're getting sterlising agents with your vaccines.
Mars WANTS some biological diversity on account of its initially low breeding stock.
Think Israel, not Singapore.

>>12503946
If they sterilize everyone under 100IQ it'll be all light-skins within two generations.

>>12503946
Wasn't there some studies indicating the much memed in media genetic diversity result in problems as the sweet spot is actually people relatively close to you genetically? I'm thinking your interracial fuck factory might crash.

>>12503946
Problem with genetics is the return to mean. It would take a long time of targeted breeding to change this, so in a couple generations the brown martians would be dead. You need genes that are distant, but not too distant. If they're too distant you might loose important tumor inhibitors or other population specific genes.

>>12503901
Skirt is too short. My starshipfu is not that kind of filthy slut!

>>12503886
It goes slower and can interact with itself in fancy ways

>>12503974
Oh but she is, she a fucking whore

>>12503799
>>12503801
Content? on my /sfg/? What the fuck are the mods doing!?

Lots of bigots in this thread...

>>12503901
Needs a futa edit for the tanker variant

>>12503990
>boomer ellipses
commit unbeing

>>12503946
More likely people will be free to marry whoever they want if Musk is going to inspire the first gov of Mars. We won't have liberal gov running Mars. We'll have more lean/libertarian(freedom both economically/socially) style with sunset clauses for every law there. That means every law passed must have a time limit. I say 10 year law limit. Laws should be taken down with minimal effort (40% vote) and must be hard to implement (with 60% vote).

>>12503997
>libertarian
>voting
>in a colony where any bad decision could wipe everyone
>where anything but utmost efficiency and complete mastery of body and mind would lead to mass death
It will be run like a military, or an antarctic mission since it's basically that but much more dangerous. You need highly motivated leadership with galaxy brain advisers and some tough as nails, no bullshit colonists.

It's Christmas Eve, so I'm going to post about ELFs.

Looks like there's been work on "greatly" improving the efficiency of the ELF thruster by changing the field geometry, but of course these assholes didn't actually BUILD one to test it.

http://electricrocket.org/IEPC/IEPC_2017_101.pdf

>>12504022
lol no. i can debunk your whole post with one word: retard

>>12504022
Low IQ

>>12503990
lots of faggots aswell

>>12504027
>>12504026
Well then, I guess that settles it. Incredibly hostile environments require very loose hierarchies. If only our ancestors knew.

>>12504034
If they knew, they would still be here

https://twitter.com/Virgin_Orbit/status/1341810180254666752
Virgin Orbit NET mid-January

>>12504038
>why are monkeys still here if evolution is real
didn't know you where an actual retard

>>12503990
Of course, you're in a thread dedicated to discussing planetary-scale white flight organized by a White South African billionaire. Elon Musk has seen what's happening today in America before.

>>12504039
What went wrong on the first flight? It’s like the engines didn’t even light.

>>12504022
The colony is going to at first consist of thousands of smart, well off individuals who made a name for themselves in their career or life back on Earth. They are not going to want to be bitched around.

>>12504044
The retard is you. Our ancestors died. We have evolved. We don't need to still act like monkeys.

>>12504039
Thanks Virgin Orbit, I was going to go get coronavirus and cough on people but they convinced me not to as I get all my medical advice from corporations on twitter.

I'm just going to add them onto the growing list of spaceflight companies I want to see fail, although I should have just put them on it for being the sister company of the Virgin Galactic shitshow.

>>12504044
>>12504051
There’s a reason that monkeys don’t have the ability to create a society which can fabricate a full flow staged combustion methalox engine.

>>12503740
Also, methane allows rapid reusability. Kerosene does not allow rapid reusability because it soots up engines.

>>12503805
>Flying anything in an ICBM trajectory will be interpreted as a nuclear attack, and will invite nuclear retaliation
You're fucking stupid. An ICBM trajectory that ends on a known installation is not going to invite nuclear retaliation. None of the countries with the capability to track ICBMs are retarded enough to commit state level suicide over something that's obviously not headed for them.

>>12504054
Ever since Astra made their BLM announcement they’ve been fucking up with everything it’s hilarious.

Someone did a poll (I can’t find it now) that said 75% of ULA voted trump, and 50% of Sierra Nevada Corp, while like 85% of SpaceX was Bernie or some shit

>>12504060
>kerosene does not allow rapid reusability
somebody tell the airline industry they've been doing it wrong for 60 years

>>12504044
Indeed, we should return to monke

>>12504050
Liquid oxygen pipe broke shortly after ignition

>>12504054
kek
The fact that they spent the better part of a billion dollars developing LauncherOne should tell you something.

>>12504062
I would've imagines spacex was #yanggang

>>12504058
Maybe they're just really good at hiding it? Africa is a big place. How do you know there's no massive underground rocket testing facilities in the Congo?

>>12504073
Elon certainly was

>>12504073
>Hey guys let’s heavily tax our CEO and company!!!!!! It’ll be awesome!!!!!
I can imagine being conservative wholly for the economic reasons desu senpai the left has really been pushing for taxing the rich

>>12504045
Delete this goy

>>12504079
>elon dirtstache

>>12504063
For Rocket engines kerosene deposits a shit ton of soot in them.
>>12504062
I wonder if that'll change now that SpaceX is moving to texas. Even though south texas still went blue there were still a lot of trump votes there.

>>12504085
That wasn't yangs deal

>>12504063
>inb4 Tesla electric VTOL BTFO Boeing yet again

>>12504092
Nah I meant Bernie. I’m a polfag retard and I liked yang

>>12504087
I don’t know why but that pic is hilarious for some reason damn my humor really has fallen

>>12504090
Why does a kerosene turbopump on a rocket engine soot up, but the kerosene powered turbine of a jet engine doesn't? Is it because the rocket turbopump is so fuel rich?

>>12504085
Tax is not the real reason. The real reason is because Musk's companies were being roadblocked by over regulations. Boring Company was being roadblocked by ton of regulations/legal issues in California. They couldn't expand. Tesla was being told to shutdown during critical days. Musk just went through Model 3 launch and he called it painful. Why would he tolerate more pain from the state trying to shut his company down?

I wish I could hug Elon and wish him a merry christmas. I would feel him squeeze me really hard and look up at his bright smile. I heard he is really tall, maybe he would kneel down to hug me. I wonder what he smells like in real life, i hope i can smell his sweat

>>12504051
>doesn't understand the post
Our ancestors lived, we're the evidence of that. They did so through strict hierarchies, there is a reason this was the golden standard until washing machines and running water came along.
>>12504058
No but their descendants can. This doesn't mean we can handle extreme conditions through le voting and freedumbs. Those concepts can only exist in a world where life is easy and failure wont kill you or others.
>>12504050
You have absolutely no idea how humans act when things get shitty do you? If there isn't any coherent leadership to look to during crisis, they're gonna fail horribly and die. Humans are basically very smart monkeys, we aren't evolved enough to run space libertarianism where everyone acts purely based on principle. The colony will need tribalism or they're going to die really quick when the horizontal power structure shows it's inefficiency.

Just wait for the colony and you'll see that a hierarchy naturally develops under the extreme stress of survival. It might be easy in the beginning, but when shit starts going wrong and they're forced to make hard decisions, there will be no more voting and they will find a leader to make the decisions for them, it's only natural. Read up on the biosphere experiment where some hippies locked themselves in a giant terrarium to simulate a space colony. Their leaderless structure invited laziness and inefficiency which created infighting, shit like that would kill a mars colony.

>>12504113
I honestly don't know. Maybe

>>12504116
Hi Grimes

>>12504118
Oof, wanna walk that back?

>>12504113
Merlin turbopumps are open cycle, and run fuel rich to not get too hot
They dump unburnt fuel that doesn't deposited in the pump
The only kerosene engines that run oxidizer rich aren't reusable, and making a reusable oxidizer rich closed cycle engine would cost more than just cleaning a dirty turbopump 7-15 times before retiring the rocket/destroying it in a non reusable launch

>>12503946
Whites are incredibly biologically diverse, inbreeding depression only happens in isolated villages of 100-200 people over several centuries. The rate of consanguinity is directly related to schizophrenia, and studies have shown that it's very difficult to get to the point where inbreeding depression sets in, assuming people don't marry first or second cousins.
Of course it's a whole other picture in societies which encourage 1st cousin marriage, pakistanis are plagued with genetic disorders. That being said it doesn't even qualify as depression caused by geographic isolation over long periods of time, it's just straight up inbreeding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyNP3s5mxI8
>More than half of British Pakistanis marry their first cousins.

Anybody who mentions inbreeding with regards to Whites is a nigger loving faggot who fell for jewish propaganda.

>>12504116
My personal bucket list person to meet is Zubrin. I really wanna feel his hands, like see if they're rough

>>12504125
I don't like this oxidizer rich terminology. Sounds like engine rich design.

>>12504129
Honestly anyone who thinks of one race as homogenous is retarded. All you need are like 500 people to restart the human race assuming monogamy, too

>>12504136
Sorry sweetie, try 2

>>12504139
>10 flights to fully fuel mar-bound starship of 150 tons
yep, i'm thinking elon is delusional

>>12504136
yeah, with 2-4 kids each and some genealogical records, 500 could do it no problem.

>>12504147
wasn't it 9? Anyways, hopefully with the design on the right they could reduce that number.

>>12504147
Tbh NASA says a crew of 6 needs 30 tons of supplies for a 3 year mission.

>>12504169
>10 tons for crew of 6 and facilities
>30 tons of supplies
>60 tons of cocaine
>send a second Starship with the sabatier system and solar farm

>>12504147
>Make 100s of starships that launch dozens a week
>NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST LAUNCH 10

>>12504179
>sabatier system and solar farm
I really think they need to go nuclear for fuel production. Solar has to be pretty mass inefficient at that scale, plus, you need something to deal with the dust while the humans are in-transit.

>>12504179
>60 tons of cocaine
Jesus I didn’t know Diego Maradona was on the Starship jajaja

NASA also said that the landed crew needs two 7.5 ton pressurized rovers (15t total) and...that’s about it. Most of NASA’s payload to mars surface are the habitats and ascent vehicles themselves

>>12504181
dream on

>>12504184
there is also the whole
>land on mars, let's get the panels up and running
>suddenly a month long dust storm commences
>ded

>>12504195
Yeah, there's very little chance that SpaceX could get the regulatory clearance to develop a reactor setup in house even if they had the time and resources to do so, but I'm somewhat hopeful that the new NASA directives on space-based nuclear power will lead to them being able to work with the government to supply their vehicles with a power supply that meets their needs.

>>12504195
Found the genius here. Now lets work on a solution. Unless you're saying "NO YOU CAN'T JUST FIX THIS!! YOU NEED TO SPEND TRILLION DOLLAR TO GET NUCLEAR POWER ON MARS!!!"

>>12504197
I hate these stacked images.

>>12504209
Small fluid fuel reactors are perfect for the job, there is no hydro or geothermal, wind is fucking shit because very thin atmosphere and the dust fucks with solar panels through sandblasting or simply blanketing the planet in month long darkness. Nuclear in some form is the only viable solution so far. Or you could build gigantic rubber balloons hooked up to air turbines to harvest the large temperature differentials.

>>12504209
Literally the only thing in the way is bureaucracy and politics. Everyone here knows that the greatest failure of the 20th century was cucking the 21st century out of safe, long-term nuclear power solutions. Everyone here knows the technology for safe, compact nuclear reactors has existed for decades. The only actual cost is the cost of playing the politics game to cut through the red tape that's stopping you. The only threat is if the coal and oil lobbies think you're getting in their way.

>>12504195
>1 mega fucking watt bare minimum needed for fuel production for every returning ship

What will the dust storm do to kill them, blow them off tornado style?

we arent going to mars because we wont let you

>>12504261
t.black

anons, tell me more about the "mars window" that happens every two years. I understand that it's the optimal window for the least energy required to reach the planet, but does that mean it's prohibitively expensive to go at other times? If you miss the window by 6 months could you just compensate with less weight? How does one interpret one of those ham charts?

>>12504244
>When the Mariner 9 probe arrived at Mars in 1971, scientists expected to see crisp new pictures of surface detail. Instead they saw a near planet-wide dust storm with only the giant volcano Olympus Mons showing above the haze. The storm lasted for a month, an occurrence scientists have since learned is quite common on Mars.
This is simply not compatible with a power grid being reliant on regular sunlight. If they generate enough surplus oxygen they might get away with biodiesel generators when a bad storm arrives, but using your oxygen to generate electricity seems like a dangerous circular dependency.

>>12504261
>we
(((we)))

They're up there, just patiently waiting for us

>>12504261
Imagine being the Soviet Union and going to Mars in 1987 on an energia rocket.

Also, what did you guys get for christmas?
I got some nice new sheets and a matching towel

>>12504276
is that smoke from the chimney

>>12504288
based aussie

>>12504291
looks like a tree

>>12504270
Pic related is a common way of graphing transfer windows. As you can see, certain departure dates are efficient, while the required delta v outside of these periods increases quite drastically.

>>12504272
Anon, dust storms do not block -all- light. That's not how it works. At the power levels they'll run the colony with massive power hogs such as water electrolysis they will have endless energy during dust storm once those processes are halted out of necessity.

Your underlying problem is you are looking to solve a problem that isn't there - because you want muh nukes. There won't be any nukes. That ship sailed decades ago with the psychosis surrounding radiation.

>>12504295
nah mate im from finland

>>12504270
This gif shows how retrograde motion occurs, where constant observations of Mars from Earth make it seem to change directions. It doesn't explain launch windows but it's a neat gif so I'm posting it.

>>12504301
And this is why anyone who bashes mechjeb is an inefficientist faggot.

>>12504318
There's a number of online porkchop plot generators for ksp if you don't want to use mechjeb, but it is nice at a certain point. Also, setting up your ejection angle using the tools ksp (doesn't) give you can be a pain.

>>12504231
>no geothermal
Can you elaborate on that?
As long as there is a difference in temperature from below the surface to the actual surface of at least 15C, you can generate power.
That's not even factoring in solar heating add to the difference.

>>12504288
>KYLPYPYTHE
wtf?

>>12504301
what causes the two penises of inefficiency in the porkchop plot

>>12504231
>meme magical reactor
Do you have one developed and ready to go in the upcoming decades, or at least by the end of the century? Or do we have to wait more for your imaginary reactors?

>>12504305
>There won't be any nukes.
New space policy document says otherwise. Nukes are necessary for serious colonization in space.

>>12503318
Haha Elon Musk Bad

>>12504338
Kilopower and the ntr has been talked for a long time - the former is worthless. The latter is welfare for some companies.

>>12504329
Means "Shower towel" in Finnish

>>12504330
No idea. It probably looks so stark due to the way the axes are stretched, though.

Also, can any of you identify what Apollo mission this picture is from? I was thinking 17, but can't see the repaired wheel cover

>>12504348
how many different words for towel does Finnish have

>>12504330
Elliptical orbits being stupid.

>>12504045
WIDER

>>12504360
I think that's Gene Cernan, so yeah, 17.

>>12504329
>bathing towel

Finnish is fun

>>12504360
red stripe = gene

>>12504364
only really just one, although here in Turku you can use the word "hantuuki" which is kind of a slang from the swedish word handduk

>>12504330
>>12504354
>"The plot can be cleaned up further by removing cases where the better of the two solutions still involves huge energy expenditures. Huge energy expenditures are obviously going to result when the transfer time is very short or very long. A not so obvious place where this happens is when the angle subtended between the line from the Earth and Sun at departure and the target planet and Sun at arrival is nearly 180°. That the Earth and target planet have slightly different orbital planes means that the transfer plane will be nearly orthogonal to the planetary orbital planes when the transfer angle is close to but not equal to 180°. This makes the approach of having a maneuver at departure and a maneuver at arrival extremely expensive for those transfers that are close to 180°. Removing those very expensive transfers from view is what creates the gap in the porkchop plot."

Sauce:
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/123029/why-is-there-a-gap-in-porkchop-plots

>>12503932
yes it could fly over an enemy territory
if it tries to land in enemy territory it will be blown out of the sky for the price of a single manpad missile

>>12504408
>Not filling the starship with rotary missile launchers loaded with AIM-120's

>>12504113
Jet shits in the atmosphere, open cycle mostly shits in the atmosphere, closed cycle shits where it eats.

>>12504413
>not just welding off the shelf Mk 41 VLS systems onto Starship and quadpacking them with ESSM
this would allow you much greater payload flexibility than a rotary launcher – with a 32 cell strike length Mk 41 system you could carry 32 Tomahawks, 32 Standard Missiles (any type), 128 ESSM, any combination of the above, plus several missiles in development designed for the system. IIRC you can also put Nulka decoys in a Mk 41. You could even put ASROC rocket launched torpedoes in it, so you can hunt submarines with Starship.

>>12504422
It could do all of those at once too since it can translate horizontally a huge amount while in flight. It could hammer enemy ports by dropping ASMs on their heads, then deploy a swarm of decoys to confuse inland AA, release another swarm of cruise missiles to knock those out, etc to clear an LZ for itself, then deploy several tens of tons worth of men and material.
Future so fucking bright lads. SPES MEHRENS soon!

>>12504429
So it's SMART reuse, except instead of catching the engines out of the air with a helicopter, they put wings and fucking piston engines on the engine block

What the fuck

>>12504434
As bad as Boing! is, Airbutts is worse.

>>12504431
100 tons is a lot of ESSM and SM-6. You could blast an LZ with B-2s and F-35s, land a couple Sentinel Starships packed with nothing but radar and AAMs, and have a defensible hard point anywhere in the world in an hour. You could even put Phalanx/CRAM on it for defense against mortars and such.

And you can land these Sentinels on Luna or Mars just as easily.

>>12504429
This would be great for the big metal tube industry.

>>12504441
You know what else is?A self detonating second stage

>>12504438
>50m class spaceship bristling with CIWS and guided missile launchers.
SOON

>>12504209
...
what other viable power source is there?
Nuclear energy is clean, safe, and based. Only faggots like you are scared of radiation.

>>12504449
iirc Roci is only something like 250 tons

>>12504449
>most of the ship is not reaction mass
Dropped.

>>12504452
Clean coal beats it on Earth even Germany shut down all nuclear power plants in favor of it. It's a global tendency.

>>12504452
/sfg/ are such brainlets about nuclear power. No one is afraid of radiation on a planet where you have to live in bunkers to escape the natural ambient radiation anyway. There just isn't a nuclear solution practical for Mars right now. Don't blame random anons, blame the swamp.

>>12504468
Germany is retarded

>>12504462
The math actually checks out on that with sufficiently spicy fuel pellets.

>>12501907

>>12504468
>clean
>coal
Germany shut down it's nuclear power because it's infested with 80 IQ leftist "Greens" who care more about optics and feeling good than they do about emission reduction. Germany also has some of the highest electricity prices in the world.

>>12504468
Germany is ran by retards.

>>12502114
Giant lasers with crazy accuracy on a moving target implode said target with such force that the target fuses and releases a net gain of energy.

Making giant lasers actually do this and making them do it efficiently enough that the fusion is net energy positive are both unsolved problems.

>>12504334
>Do you have one developed and ready to go in the upcoming decades
No, but NASA certainly does.

>>12504231
>giant inflatable Martian power dildos
Wait, can you expand on that?

>>12504486
>expensive
>low power

In other words - useless. It might be cheaper and faster to send diesel for generators instead.

>>12504468
>even Germany shut down all nuclear power plants in favor of it.
We also produce about 3 times as much CO2 as France and our electricity prices are the highest in the EU, so fuck you.

>>12502820
Once Trump declared martial law in 2 weeks the FAA won't be a problem anymore.

>>12502982
Congressional earmark.

>>12504486
Speaking of, did you know that NASA designed a much more efficient and powerful RTG to make use of our limited and dwindling plutonium supplies, but dropped the project?

>>12504493
Sure, because carrying a shit ton of diesel fuel to space is going to be really cheap.

>>12504500
No, I thought RTGs are shit for actually supplying considerable amounts of power and are only used because what little power they produce is kept up for decades.

>>12504462
It's never, NEVER mentioned so far in the movie and only once in the book, but the other half of the ship where the cargo bay is located is a huge water tank which is used as reaction mass for both the drive during high acceleration and for the RCS packs, which are ultra-high powered resistojets.

>>12504429
This is literally only a power point presentation and will never be a real product

>>12504519
>Sure, because carrying a shit ton of diesel fuel to space is going to be really cheap.
Diesel is shit for really obvious reasons (needs an oxidizer, if you're burning fuel anyways why not use methane you already have, etc) but the whole point of Starship is to make yeeting shit cheap. $10/kg makes "just send 100 tons of ice up to LEO as a depot" viable.

>>12504429
Those fucking Germans...

>>12504468
>clean coal
Only room temperature Trump NPCs think this exists. Even Trump thought it meant "taking the coal out of the ground and cleaning it"

>>12504550
I have a deep seated and shameful fetish for WW2 and later fighter aircraft with rear gunners, the sillier the better

And by God is that image silly

>>12504468
Germans also suffered rolling brownouts and periods of having to pay other countries to take extra power off their hands to keep their grid from melting when unthrottleable "clean" energy sources pumped too much juice in on windy and sunny days, and they didn't have sufficient coal powerplants to maintain a stable supply to the grid.

>>12504543
>muh yeet so efficiency doesn't matter
You always want to make the most of whatever you have. Despite the cult around here, right now the most bang for your buck is solar panels.

>>12504554
The B-52's old 20mm tail guns have confirmed MiG jet kills.

>>12504543
And then you still need electricity to actually make your methane from that 100 tons of ice.

>>12504561
Solar panels aren't going to work very well on Mars.

>>12504561
That's only true at sub megawatt scales at 1AU so at Mars the cutoff is like 400kW on a sunny day.

>>12504561
>most bang for your buck
Loser wagie mentality. Most bang is what counts, just print the bucks.

>>12504572
Momentus would be thrilled to just have a chunk of ice in orbit and could probably afford to buy a launch for it.

>>12504572
>Solar panels aren't going to work very well on Mars.
Better than anything else. 50% hit to efficiency is still very usable. People love to shill kilopower here while bitching about 'muh acreage' without realizing that a solar panel on Mars has better power/area and the power to weight difference is astronomical, to say nothing of the cost disparity or the fact that kilopower doesn't even exist yet and that's still the only nuclear option even put on the table.

>>12504561
>Most bang for your buck.
>A power supply which struggles to break 25% efficiency.
HMMM.

>>12504598
So? You don't have to take the Sun with you. Find a number with an actual comparison and you will find that no option beats it.

>>12504606
This is only because the Faggot Air Administration and Nuclear Reactor Cuckolds have gimped space based nuclear power though so that only anemic generators like Kilopower can even make it beyond orbit.
I'd rather they be overruled so that real large scale energy generators can be launched into space, rather than be forced to settle for solar. Especially when we're talking about a thousand Starships building a town sized outpost on Mars instead of two guys in a tin can landing to pick up a rock.
I'll admit though that unfortunately the first power supply on Mars will probably be solar, what I'll not yield is that it's suboptimal, especially on a planet who's entire surface is one big fucking piece of sandpaper that regularly pops out hemisphere covering storms that can blow glass sharp dust at sandblaster speeds.
You'll need to fly five times as much mass in replacement glass as actual panels just to keep them from shitting the bed.

>>12503949
And no conservatives

>>12503901
Somebody did it. God bless you

>>12504596
I'd rather not trust my life solely on something that only produces power half a day at best and gets fucked by the regular dust storms and general atmosphere. And it's not like there has been much need for a space launch capable nuclear reactor, so obviously the options are going to be slim. Doesn't mean it's impossible to make or even adapt a naval reactor design for space use when you aren't shackled by the stringent weight requirements of today.

Would a Kel Tec KS7 be a good gun for living on Mars and defending from (((terran))) forces?
>>12504621
No commies either. Only national socialists.

>>12503974
Starship-chan is anyone's for $10/kg

>>12503992
Or better yet...

>>12504620
>blow glass sharp dust at sandblaster speeds
i thought this was not possible on mars due to the low pressure?

>>12504438
Imagine wasting so much effort and resorces in some territorial chimp war.

NORAD Santa tracker is live. ISS astronauts performing EVA to install a chimney airlock adapter.

https://www.noradsanta.org/

>>12503801
>>12503799
beautiful, merry christmas bros!

>>12504643
The lower atmosphere keeps the dust from being as softened as earth dust and it also enables the dust particles to fly much faster and longer.

>>12504646
The declining American Empire needs to be propped up long enough to get Mars self sufficient, unless you want to live under Xi Jinping thought.