/sci/ - Science & Math

That's what it's been this whole time. Now people are trying to override that, invent some new non-meaning out of nothing, and look what happened.

>>12129867
>Is that the sole purpose of living?
That's a philosophical question, not a scientific one. I like to separate it into 3:
The purpose of the biology
The purpose of the individual
And the purpose of the collective.

If you can understand this, then the problem becomes much easier. Just answer each of those separately then put it together.

>>12129867
you're free to choose your own meaning of life, but in the future there will probably be more entities that chose reproduction as their goal than entities that did not

>>12129897
Placing value on the reproduction of biological organisms is so arbitrary. Valuing the reproduction of ideas is just as valid.

>>12129867
This is what "life" is.

>>12129867
Yes anon. The entire point of everyone existence is to cum in or get cummed in some pussy. Enjoy

>>12129867
Life is an extension of entropy, the universe itself attempting to utilize its resources (energy) in the most efficient way possible. Reproduction is a means to this end, creating more and more efficient structures to use and gather energy in more and more efficient ways.

I could see the process always eventually leading to intelligent agents as thought is naturally extremely effective at making the most out of available resources. In time it will create its own more intelligent offspring, something like a superintelligent non-biological machine. By the end of time maybe this machine or its descendent saves the universe (itself) from heat death, or transcends/escapes it somehow.

>>12129968
Nothing you wrote even remotely resembles reality.

>>12129977
Maybe to someone as low iq as you. I'm sorry your small brain isnt well suited to looking at the big picture

>>12129994
Dude, I'm sorry that you took time to write all that shit. But it's shit. It's actually quite funny that you tried to make it sound profound. I'm actually laughing here, it sounds like something my sister would write if she knew the word entropy. She really likes astrology.

Anyway, your post is just so wrong I wouldn't know where to start. It's kind of incredible that someone could actually write that and think that they are writing a coherent and logical argument. Every single sentence you wrote is false. There isn't a single truth in all of your post.

>>12129867
Behaviour is 100% genetic.
Bitches that like to wank themselves off on pointless questions like that die off, while niggers that just wanna nig breed like rabbits.
So you could say the purpose of life if to make more and more niggers.

Maybe Satan have a cotton plantation in hell, and need PoC.

>>12130011
Checked and based

>>12129867
Yes, everything else is made up and therefore fake and gay. But you can ignore the fake and gayness if you want and then it's entirely valid-to you. Does it take matter if it's valid to anyone else? Your the one that has to live with it.

>>12129867
>meaning of life?
Life is. We humans give it "meaning."

>>12129907
then why do you value the spread of your ideas?

>>12130005
>>12129977
You can always tell the smooth brains by the way they never actually point out or refute anything. What is the point in wasting time here if you're not interested in discussing the topic at hand?

>>12130005
He's not wrong though, we are just a far from equilibrium dissipative structure.

>>12130158
It is arbitrary. The sentence is actually perfectly constructed, since "entities" could refer just as well to ideas as to organisms. Valuing one over the other seems like a matter of preferences.

I didn't say which one I value more.

>>12130167
>You can always tell the smooth brains by the way they never actually point out or refute anything
I did point it out. I said that it is all wrong. There is not a single true statement on the whole post.

>>12130172
You are interpreting his post in a very creative manner, because he didn't say that at all.

>>12130179
you're still trying to propagate your ideas though
according to you, your values are arbitrary

I just think it's funny when "philosophers" act hypocritically

>>12130202
It's not hypocrisy. It's the answer to OPs question. He asked if the meaning of life is to just propagate life. Why should it be? Why not propagate ideas? If propagating something is all you care about, both answers seem equally correct. Choose one.

>>12129887
The answer? To serve God.

>>12129867
that's a method of getting self thru the time hierarchy. self is consumed along the way and there are more direct approaches, eg renouncing selfhood.

>>12130179
Just saying haha its all wrong lol goes against the very nature of science at its core and not only that fails to "propagate ideas" in the manner you seem to value. Not that you understand science anyways, as you fail to grasp even the simplest mechanism behind evolution.

By the way, propagating ideas is just means to a biological organisms end.

The answer? to sucks cock.

>>12130204
>why should life even propagate life?
>life should propagate ideas
>choose one
>it's all arbitrary

why though? your position sounds really arbitrary.

>ideas are entities just like life forms

>ideas can propagate themselves without lifeforms

wew lad, you almost got me there. good troll though

>>12130241
Pick one sentence from the first paragraph (the second one is pure conjecture from your part and therefore meaningless). Prove it's true. I don't get what you are not understanding. Would it be easier if I copy-pasted each sentence here and said "this isn't true", "this isn't true"?
>fails to "propagate ideas" in the manner you seem to value
I specifically said I did not mention which one I value more.
>By the way, propagating ideas is just means to a biological organisms end.
False. Proof: johnny had a red house, but it turned into a rainbow. I just sent an idea to your head, how did that benefit life in any way?

>>12130251
>ideas can propagate themselves without lifeforms
I didn't say that. Although it is probably true. Computers can hold ideas. I don't think the brain, or its architecture, is the only way in which something can contemplate the universe.
>life should propagate ideas
I didn't say that either. OP seems to think that because he is life he must help propagate life. But he isn't just life. He is also composed of ideas, why shouldn't he help propagate those?
>it's all arbitrary
Another thing I didn't say. I said that choosing one over the other like it's just intrinsically more important is arbitrary.
>your position sounds really arbitrary
What position? That ideas are just as important as life? It's the same in my mind. Life propagates, life changes, life dies, same thing with information. The best ones get passed around, the detrimental ones die or survive from parasitism. If you can't see the parallels, then you haven't thought about it hard enough.

Organisms are vehicles for the replication of genes.

Humans are vehicles for the transmission of genes and memes, due to our enlarged prefrontal cortex's. Richard Dawkins wrote this years ago. Read some fucking books!

/thread

>>12130281
Why did you close the thread if you didn't even attempt to answer OP's question?

>>12130271
>MY POSITION ISN'T ARBITRARY
>choosing a position is arbitrary
lol
>ideas are just as important as life
>choose one!
lol
>the best life/ideas survive
>the ideas to not propagate life is a good idea
LOL
>ideas = life
>ideas can propagate without life
lol

>>12130287
I guess that's the end of this discussion.

>>12130286
Was I not succinct enough? I thought I made it clear and cited my sources.

>>12130300
>Is procreating the true meaning of life? Is that the sole purpose of living? Just pass your genes on and live long enough to guide your offspring into adulthood so they can repeat the process?
>Organisms are vehicles for the replication of genes.
>Humans are vehicles for the transmission of genes and memes, due to our enlarged prefrontal cortex's. Richard Dawkins wrote this years ago. Read some fucking books!
How is any of what you said an answer to what OP asked?

>>12130271
>Pick one sentence from the first paragraph

The first paragraph is literally just describing evolution. Are you autistic? Have you taken the first grade?

>Would it be easier if I copy-pasted each sentence here and said "this isn't true", "this isn't true"?

I don't get what you're not understanding. I would prefer actual discussion of the topic not whatever drivel this has devolved into.

>fails to "propagate ideas" in the manner you seem to value
>I specifically said I did not mention which one I value more.

I couldn't care less about which one you value more, only that you do value it at all which you must considering you're the one clinging to it.

>False. Proof: johnny had a red house, but it turned into a rainbow. I just sent an idea to your head, how did that benefit life in any way?

You just proved my point, first, the only reason that sentence exists at all is because a biological organism thought it. And the very reason it was thought was to serve your attempt at countering the previously presented statement, presumably to benefit yourself.

>>12130302
I said that there the transmission of genes and memes were the meaning of life/purpose of living.

>>12130305
if you don't value propagating ideas, then why did you post?

>>12130305
Ahh, here we go.
>Life is an extension of entropy
What does this even mean? "an extension of entropy"?
>the universe itself attempting to utilize its resources (energy) in the most efficient way possible
This is wrong. The universe doesn't even care about efficiency, life much less. Life only cares about what works. There are many examples of life doing many inefficient things because the process that led to the mechanism was incremental and each step requires less genetic mutation than a complete rework of the system that could be more efficient.
>Reproduction is a means to this end, creating more and more efficient structures to use and gather energy in more and more efficient ways.
No. Just no. Reproduction isn't "a means to an end". As far as life is concerned, reproduction is the end itself. There's no ultimate goal of life. Nobody is orchestrating the whole thing, "thou shall discover the most efficient process!" Life just is.

>I would prefer actual discussion of the topic not whatever drivel this has devolved into.
Well, I'm sorry that my discussion with someone else wasn't of very much interest for you. Next time I'll ask your opinion before trying to talk to other people and make sure you are properly entertained.

>You just proved my point, first, the only reason that sentence exists at all is because a biological organism thought it. And the very reason it was thought was to serve your attempt at countering the previously presented statement, presumably to benefit yourself.
Myself is more than just biology. So yeah, it benefited myself in that I got less boredom from this, but life isn't very amused. It would much rather I be spending this time copulating.

>>12129867
Meaning is constructed, though immortality is through family

>>12129867
There is no meaning
Existence proceeds essence

>>12131592
Functional immortality maybe. Unless you believe in reincarnation like a loon

>>12129867
The meaning of life is not science or math. Neither will give you an answer for it.

The meaning of life is to create beautiful works of poetry and to live incredible adventures filled with joy and excitement ... The meaning of our life at least. Your life has no meaning you're just an npc

>>12129968
Ummm isn’t life the opposite of entropy

>>12131832
life is pretty boring actually unless you’re an idiot. there’s not much to do. I’ve been on a lot of “adventures” and they are 98% boring slogs 2% enjoyment.

>>12132144
I'm too smart to be bored
>>12131691
lol you mean "precedes"?

regardless, I can make a kid for a purpose. Then, essence will precede existence.

meaning can also be used to retroactively justify existence. for ex, I don't know why I should live, but I know that if I ever live long enough I will find my life meaningful and will then say everything was worth it for that future moment.

>>12132132
yes.
a life form lowers its own entropy by increasing the entropy of its environment.

>>12132585
life is by definition since all necessities are boring. work is worse than boring, eating is boring, studying is boring. Life is pretty much a succession of tedious and boring nonsensewith some moments of horrible suffering scattered throughout. If you’re a privileged and shitty person you might get some happiness in there too, but very little for the average or below average luck individual

>Is procreating the true meaning of life?
No, shitting is. If humanity will stop procreating, it will completely perish in 100 years. If it will stop shitting, it will perish in a couple of weeks in a bad way.

>>12129867
The purpose of life is the technological genesis of God via the Singularity

>>12132595
>life is only that which fends off death
that's like saying a car is only that which fends off carlessness
I guess I should return my car because:
"cars, by definition are boring since all necessities of cars are boring. maintenance, gassing up, etc..."

You honestly sound like a troll since it's hard to believe anyone actually believes that life is only that which fends off death, instead of that which life enables to exist (discovery, learning, conquest, imposing a will onto the universe, etc).

You're also choosing to stay alive which also makes me think you don't believe what you're saying.

>>12132652
choosing to stay alive has nothing to do with thinking life is good. most people are emotionally blackmailed into continuing their existence by family members.

the difference with the car analogy is that the fun properties emerge from others. On the other hand, life is literally just what you spend your time doing. If life is mostly spent doing horrible things like working, then it is horrible by extension.

>>12132665
>life is what you spend your time doing
car is literally what you spend your time doing with a car: horrible things like maintenance, registration, fueling, etc. thus, cars are horrible by extension.

>emotional blackmail from family
you will die eventually anyway, so they'll be sad regardless, it's just a matter of when. if anything, if you wait too long, then you'll build a deeper bond with your family and then they'll be even more sad. so using your family's emotions as an excuse to choose to live is contradictory. if you really care about your family's emotions, then you would stop living as quick as possible to prevent them from feeling even more sad.

and you won't have to care about their emotions after you stop choosing to stay alive.

>choosing to stay alive != life is good
yes it does.
if life is bad, then stop choosing it.

>>12129867
the purpose of life is living

Damn how are you this stupid? Survival instinct is one of the oldest properties of life. Rationally knowing that life is horrible is usually not enough alone to override it.

>>12132609
Based and if-you-dont-shit-you-diepilled

>>12132721
it's illegal to kill yourself for a reason

>>12132741
Because it would upset the imposed order and deprogram all the sleeping retards thinking they must keep living because of a magic sky daddy?

>>12132721
whom are you replying to? lol

and I agree with >>12132741
suicide is an instinct. we see examples of suicide in every social species, specifically the bottom tier of the individuals of a social group.

if you were rational, and concluded that life isn't worth living, then you would stop choosing to live.

>>12132724
>>12132609
I think I know what you're trying to do. By making a parallel between how shitting is necessary to perpetuate life, you try to discredit any argument for meaning that relies on the fact that life evolved to perpetuate life.

But you need to do better since shitting by itself doesn't perpetuate life. It's only one ingredient (yes, a meaningful life would contain some moments spent shitting).

>>12132767
>nonsuicidal people are sleeping retards
But you're choosing to stay alive. Aren't you implying that you're a sleeping retard?
If you're so rational and smart, then stop choosing to live.

>>12132741
kek. that's brainwashing to the highest degree. who gives a fuck after your dead they aint gonna lock your dead body up

>>12132788
sorry dude, you’re wrong.

>>12132767
It would be bad for the economy when people could just kill themselves. If your miserable underclass figured out that they could just kill themselves you'd have to allow them more leeway. If your highly trained specialists kill themselves you lose your investment in human capital. The skygod is just a pretext, suicide is a taboo in most societies. Raising humans is expensive especially now that child labor isn't as common anymore.

>>12132797
lol about what?
you said life is bad, yet you choose to live
you said your family will feel bad if you die, yet you will die
you said nonsuicidal people are sleeping retards, yet you choose to live
you said you're rational, then say you can't make the rational decision

WHY ARE YOU STILL CHOOSING TO STAY ALIVE?

>>12132823
so much this. how else do you sustain a world where a minority of terrible people get to live well while the majority work shitty jobs for no reward. same way Christianity has always worked. Tell the peasants they’ll go to hell if they die. Keeps them obediently working so you can leech off them. The same exact shit is happening today. Everyone with a respectable profession has no money and no happiness. All of the money and happiness goes to dumb, selfish immoral pieces of shit

>>12132788
>But you need to do better since shitting by itself doesn't perpetuate life. It's only one ingredient (yes, a meaningful life would contain some moments spent shitting).
It's still better than op's DUDE FUCKING LMAO incel-tier wisdom.

>>12132826
Shut the fuck up you mouth breathing retard. The fact that the concept of a millenia of genetic and social programming that makes up your survival instinct is foreign to your small mind means any opinion you have on the matter is irrelevant.

>>12132970
the rational thing for you to do is to not choose to live
thus, you are irrational

you are a "sleeping retard" because you choose to live.

>>12129867
Only if you truly believe you're nothing but an animal, non-sentient.
Sentient beings (the intelligent ones, at least) realize that's the lowest common denominator of activities, and it's up to *you* to choose what your 'purpose in life' is.
Bonus points: you can have more than one 'purpose'.

>>12130218
>The answer? To serve old men who have convinced the masses that they 'speak to/for God' and therefore, based on 'faith', should be obeyed unquestioningly, or face 'eternal damnation'
nope

>>12129977
actually the first part is at the cutting edge of our current understanding of life

>>12130005
this is peak psued

>>12130271
>>12130241
>>12130179
>>12130005
Enjoy your embarrassment

>>12133105
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cwvj0XBKlE

>>12129867
If you don't procreate and die it'll be like you never existed.

>>12133391
That will be true even if you will procreate. So immortalism/transhumanism is the only solution.

>>12133027
Again, you've no idea what you're even discussing, go back to huffing glue

>>12133414
No because your DNA will become the future as long as at least one of your biological descendants successfully and consistently reproduces.

>>12133531
Why would you care about chemical substance proliferating? Even then, pretty soon it will dilute and your great-great-grandson will hardly have any resemblance to you.

>>12133438
Again, you're a hypocrite since you choose to live

>>12129867
To eventually cheat death, permanently

>>12133878
And to resurrect the ancestors.

>>12133072
The church has nothing to do with God. God is universal, and God is truth, as we owe him our existence. Faith is not a law, it's something you must discover yourself, it is the means to reach the truth that is God. As humans we are incapable of knowing truth, we use faith to reach out to it.

>>12129867
No

>>12133072
>Le God is just old white men lying to you meme
Grow up, retard.

>>12129871
>look what happened.
Explain?

>>12129867
So I should just go forcefully rape several hundred women, and I have done a better job than a Math PhD and securing the future of my genes...

hmmmmmmmmm

>>12129867
meaning is not a real thing

>>12133887
In theory we should develop a pathway to resurrect all people who have ever lived and died.

It will probably take us a time scale of 300-1500 years to accomplish this.

It will take much longer to achieve the technological capability to parse these people and actually figure out if they are morally good or bad... Hopefully we don't bother, and just resurrect everyone regardless of wrongdoings.

I don't think anyone should be judged by their first shot at life.

Bring them back once, and give them the second chance.
The second chance should be where the judging can occur.

But yeah, it's completely technologically possible, in theory, to resurrect every single dead human.

I fear the misuse of it... But, I think it CAN be good.

>>12129867
>Is procreating the sole purpose of living?
That's not a purpose, that's just a function. It's what life does in some way or other.

>>12134801
imagine not realising that this is the material realisation of the religious concept of judgement day where god (human society) enacts peak morality on those who have died in the past

>>12129867
Life means what you make it.

>>12129867
>Sex is awesome!
>Hey offspring, try it out! It's the cycle I enjoy and made you!
>Hi creator that I am the offpsring of! You're right! It is awesome! Weeee!
>The Family Circle continues.

>>12129867
Yes, OP. It's the circle of life. Finding happiness or a way out of suffering is also considered the meaning of life too

>>12129867
True meaning of life is to achieve the perfect sex clone variation generation, immortalize them, and then heaven for everyone!

>>12134801
Where in the evolutionary chain do you stop? Do you keep resurrecting people's parents until you get to the first fish to leave the ocean?

>>12135036
time reaches into his butthole to pull out any explanation you need for whatever narrative you want.

>>12129897
but in even more distant future there will be no entities at all, so why should I choose reproduction?

>>12130290
Didn't you believe that propagating ideas more important than procreation?
>stopped propagating his own idea
>continues to propogate his diarrhea

>>12135070
Because they'll also choose you when nobody else will!

>>12129867
Purpose/Meaning is created and therefore we get as much out of life as we can manage to create, based on our abilities

Meaning doesn't have to be singular

Most humans contribute to the capability of human society and also have some purpose in procreation

To have your only purpose/meaning be procreation is a pretty fucking low bar

>>12135084
blahblah we fuck for attention to blahblahblah more attention

>>12135070
but in the near future there won't be your entity at all, so why should you choose to stay alive?

>>12134801
assume that your resurrection plan is possible
what are the chances that you are experiencing your first life?

>>12134795
my brain is real
the values my brain assigns to things are real
>>12134790
you wouldn't succeed in that though
but yeah, mathletes are going extinct because they're not the correct fit for the universe

The pursuit of finding the meaning of life using rationality is doomed to fail because what truly exists can't be rationally understood. The rational pursuit of objective philosophical truths is a coping mechanism because, just like most religions, it says that the world makes sense and everything has a purpose

>>12134998
Really though, I don't think anyone should be judged for the life they lived the first time.

No one knew what they were doing the first time.

>>12135036
Let's just stop, when we run out of computational capacity.

>>12135179
You would remember a life before this one, if it wasn't.

We aren't going to simulate people in a first-over situation, what's the point?

Unless you explicitly remember a life before this one, it's your first.

>>12135709
what makes you think that?

I can easily see a hypothetical society where regulation prevents the government from enacting the death penalty, and thus all people have a right to be reincarnated, even criminals, but criminals don't get their memories reincarnated as the alternative to the death penalty.

In fact, if the criminals are vile enough, then not just his memories don't get reincarnated, but everyone's memories of him are also expunged from the reincarnated memories.

That's a form of eternal death even in the face reincarnation.

Unless the criminal is smart enough to infer all of his positions and beliefs form his previous life, he's effectively forced to become a new person.

>>12131748

Well yeah, things functionally exist functionally in reality

>>12129867
Purpose must be of higher value than other things. If you value anything that you want to do, you do it. Eventually you die, so where is the value? Thorough other people? Transitive value, then. But what at the heat death of the universe? If transitive value relies upon transit, then the value diminishes upon end. Everything you do is meaningless in this world - The Black Pill. Its the next world that has any meaning whatsoever, and the bridge is He.

>>12134779
I think he's talking about the "don't have kids" propaganda.

>>12134779
>>12136036
Back then when advertising on tv was new, they always displayed a healthy happy family with children. This was important, because if you had a lot of kids, you would naturally be at home more and NEED a lot of these advertised appliances. Nowadays, people don't need kids to have that anymore. We just buy buy buy. But now, governments have more power over singles/couples without a continued bloodline. Also, companies get better hours out of people that don't have children. Most fathers wouldn't work 80 hours/week, unless their family was starving.

>>12133905
>>12134764
The priests invented God.

>>12136055
>We just buy buy buy
Don't worry, soon they will forbid you to buy things.

>>12135792
Blue Eisenhower November

>>12129867
In truth there is no meaning of life. There's not supposed to be and I would be offended if there was one.

>>12133905
Faith is a vice and its endorsement is a means to maintain a lie.

>>12136257
Why would you think that? What are people going to do if they can't buy anything? We'd return to hunter-gatherer.

>>12136450
>What are people going to do if they can't buy anything?
a)Don't exist
b)Stay at home and get food from government deliverers, but nothing more
Select one you like.

>>12136453
So the only possibility is option a, in which case I'll believe it when I see it.

>>12129867
As far as we know, yeah, pretty much. Well, and keep feeding and having energy to do so. Life started as a self replicating complex molecule.

If you want any other kind of meaning you are getting into phylosophy and out of the realm of this board.

>>12136019
>the heatdeath meme
>>12136552
science is founded on meaning