/sci/ - Science & Math

Chickens are wonderful pets. They make comfy noises, like to be held and cuddled, and have very modest care needs.

Turning yourself into a robot would make you too easy to be hacked and enslaved. Most likely by your own manufacturer

>>12114616
stop reading science fiction

>>12114616
>My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack's muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?

>We shall take only the greatest minds, the finest soldiers, the most faithful servants. We shall multiply them a thousandfold and release them to usher in a new era of glory."
>Col. Corazon Santiago, "The Council of War"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGCaACqy1Ro [Embed]

>I think, and my thoughts cross the barrier into the synapses of the machine—just as the good doctor intended. But what I cannot shake, and what hints at things to come, is that thoughts cross back. In my dreams the sensibility of the machine invades the periphery of my consciousness. Dark. Rigid. Cold. Alien. Evolution is at work here, but just what is evolving remains to be seen.

>The cyborg would not recognize the Garden of Eden, it is not made of mud and can not dream of returning to dust.

>The Crowned Pawn was like a ship turned inside out. It centered around a core of massive magnetic engines, fed by drones from a chunk of reaction mass. Outside these engines was a skeletal metal framework where Lobsters clung like cysts or skimmed along on induced magnetic fields. There were cupolas here and there on the skeleton where the Lobsters hooked into fluidic computers or sheltered themselves from solar storms and ring-system electrofluxes. They never ate. They never drank. They knew no fear. They were self-contained and anarchical. Their greatest pleasure was to sit along a girder and open their amplified senses to the depths of space, watching stars past the limits of ultraviolet and infrared, or staring into the flocculate crawling plaque of the surface of the sun, or just sitting and soaking in watts of solar energy through their skins while they listened with wired ears to the warbling of Van Allen belts and the musical tick of pulsars. There was nothing evil about them, but they were not human. As distant and icy as comets, they were creatures of the vacuum, bored with the outmoded paradigms of blood and bone. I saw within them the first stirrings of the Fifth Prigoginic Leap -- that postulated Fifth Level of Complexity as far beyond intelligence as intelligence is from amoebic life, or life from inert matter. They frightened me. Their bland indifference to human limitations gave them the sinister charisma of saints.

>>12114616

Well.
>You stop being homo sapiens and become something like homo civilization as now you need an advanced techno-industrial complex to keep living(i.e: Once you substitute your hearth with a cybernetic one maintenance depends on medics and engineers not your body) the loss of individual autonomy would be significant(not to be confused with individual freedom)
>You would become part of a system which is so complex that it's both beyond your understanding and a distant. Your life would become a cargo cult of logic and rationality for you to survive inside such system and probably it would end up managed by AIs or more fitting beings to such ecosystem
>liberation from your natural biology also means an inherent responsibility to make changes to our beings and environment, but what does it mean such a thing when for example: You eliminate the survival instinct? Now survival is no longer accepted as a common objective. We are not capable of answering these questions and we probably won't ever be yet, if technological progress brings what is supposed to bring these questions must be answered adequately or we will exterminate ourselves or become stagnant and die

Not to be mistaken, I am pro-transhumanism and because of this reason I am aware of its dangers. Thankfully we are not talking about posthumanism, because whatever dangers cyborgs gene augmented or nano-enhanced people pose, they are nothing compared what digital minds could pose.
>Wealth Disparity - transhumanism may lead to a techno-feudalism in which vast population of baselines are ruled or ignored by a immortal oligarchy of supermen
>Strange Tastes - These transhumans might embrace decadence to a unthinkable scale, eat cloned human flesh, see themselves as a master race and baselines nothing else than playthings. Or worse, transhuman intelligence might grow so much, so that they will see baselines minds just like we see chimapanzee`s. Barley sapient animals.
>Pantropic Madness - Possible adaptation to inhuman enviroment might produce inhuman beings, even worse if those adaptations only exist to serve a ideological ideal.
>System Imperative - Augmentations handed over by uncontrolled corporations will be bad, only with a subscription will your free will remain and if you refuse those brainwashed cyborgs will outperform you and you will lose your job. Even worse if such technology is used by goverments as a mean of societal control, a genetically engineered population that is unable to feel doubt or sadness. Also supersoldiers.

>>12114833
Actually baselines would be easier hacked as transhuman could simply connect their MMI or nanomachines to a baseline and he would have no defenses to combat intrusions. A transhuman would atleast have some firewalls in the form of own nanomachines or autosentient mind detections. It might be easier to attempt to hack a transhuman but the overwrite is harder to accomplish. And if such transhuman isn`t part of a connected system, a first attempt of a hack will be even harder to do than with a baseline as a transhuman has a easier time to detect memetic or cybernetic manipulations.

>>12114928
Really, nigga?
We talked about this.
Jammers, EMP, Ultrasound, MRI, antibiotics, and even a simple magnet and a microwave oven can destroy entire electric gadgets in the body without harming the person

But if your manufacturer releases a patch that hacks your brain, you are fucked

>>12114988
>Proteus Nanoviruses
>Molecular/Optical Computing
>Biological Based Nanomachines

>>12114833
>make you too easy to be hacked and enslaved. Most likely by your own manufacturer
Is religious belief also a hack by our "manufacturer"?

>>12114629
Salmonella

>>12114629
All of these except the last are false
>t own chickens

>>12115064
you're more likely to get salmonella from kfc than pet chickens

read crash space by bakker, free pdf

Are transhumanists schizophrenics or absolute retards? Which is it?

>>12114616
The last time i saw so many jews looking at a cock was at that brit milah.

>>12115259
They are a bunch of Tsiolkovsky' and Werhner von Brauns.

>>12115028
If you are a machine that has signals, magnets and EMP would destroy you all the same

>>12115891
Not if your machines doesn`t operate on a electromagnetic basis. You can have biological nanomachines, organs and implants. Such molecular computing machines would be unaffected by EMPs but even electromagnetic nanomachines can be hardened against such impluses via optical computing.

>>12115985
That's called bio-organism
They are living creatures(or viruses) and cannot hack

>>12116359
Viruses are living hacks.

>>12116521
Yeah, but not the hack that we want

>>12114629
they can also take a dick up their arse and don't complain about it

>>12115041
no it's a cope for nihilism.

>>12114616
Any problems caused by advanced technology can just be solved with more advanced technology.

>>12114616
Read what the unabomber wrote in that manifesto. Don't blow shit up that's dumb, but he says a lot of very interesting things. He's also a revolutionary (which I despise) but acknowledges that revolution is fucked up and almost never works out, which is interesting.

>>12114629
Nice

>>12118648
Anon if you have anything above a micropenis you’re going to pull the chicken’s organs with your dick out if you try and fuck it

>>12114616
If it's not publicly funded and available to everyone, it'll just make the rich assholes even more insufferable.

>>12125234
It is very likely that transhuman technology will become avaible to all, just like computers, cars, electricity and modern medicine did. The first Ford of transhuman tech will become a trillionaire. Even then we could improve the tech distribution by implementing a better health care system that allows easy access to most technologies. Especially genetic engineering will be beneficial to all, the state will be able to save up a lot of health, retirement and stupidity costs. Genetic derived diseases will be thing of the past (no schizos, no mentally disabled, no physically disabled), a greater resilience against most diseases and people that are fitter and smarter will be a boon to society at large.

>>12114616
Yes. Humans are a plague. We should focus on creating AI to succeed humanity.

>>12125291
lul
Your post reeks of so much naivety it is clear you have no idea of what those technologies really entails and what nightmares they would bring to society to go along with the benefits

To start with
A transhuman future is unlikely as people are creeped out with the idea of living in a body that was manufactured aritifically. You saw how badly people reacts to GMO.
Let alone actual implants that can manipulate your entire life

Secondly, genetic engeering would pave to an actual distopian future. Sure, you can now how people with better genes but what would happen to people with bad genes?
Yes, exactly
Genocide would be legalized and moralized.

And where do we draw the line? What if the parents wanted to have designer babies manufactured based on what they want?
What if the government wanted to design perfect soldiers

Anyone who promises Utopia shall deliver a Dystopia

transhumanism is going to be biological as we master genetics, organisms are far better machines than anything we have in existence

>>12125338
Convergent Evolution, mate
If there is a superior possible design for survival, evolution would have already made it or already on it

>>12125337
>it'll gross people out
Tastes and mores are highly culture dependent and malleable. People a short while ago would have found smartphone addicts alarming.

>>12125337
>You saw how badly people reacts to GMO.
And yet it is a billion dollar industry, especially its medical field. Transhumanism will slowly come to be, in waves. Genetic engineering will first be used to ensure the health of one's child but then people will think why not use it to prevent diseases like alzheimer or cancer. By then it will be used to enhance the life quality and capability of one's child.
>would happen to people with bad genes?
The parents of augments will still be baselines. I would guess that most augments won't see their augmentation as something that make them better but just as a technology like vaccination that everyone should use. And those who don't are weird and needlessly cripple themselves.
>And where do we draw the line?
Enhancing non-positional traits like health, fitness and intelligence should know societal support. Everything else should be forbidden, especially modifications related to personality.

>>12125353
Evolution didn't brought us to the moon. Human ingenuity did, our minds can design machines far superior to evolutionary bio-machines. No animal has wheels or can fly to the sun.

>>12125371
Stop fooling yourself. You're a product of nature.

>>12125363
>>12125366
Listen to yourself speaking
You want to replace your fully functioning body with parts manufactured by the totally benevolent elites for totally no dubious reasons.

Also, no.
You have not raised any point that could avoid the sure fact that genetic engineering would result into a mass wave of genocide of people with bad genes

And that's assuming they actually had bad genes
Realitistically, the government would just use the genocide as an excuse to get rid of inconvenient people

Also, people would now have to fight for the right to give birth because the state do not want "substandard" citizen.

Oh, how lovely.

>>12125383
>replace
I'm actually more of a nanomachines guy. They operate in a quite closed system and I would only buy trustworthy swiss ones.
>benevolent elites for totally no dubious reasons.
Because the "elites" are one big, happy family. No, it's all about supply/demand.
>genocide of people with bad genes
Why should that happen. I doubt that first world children will begin again to believe themselves to be of a masterpiece. Genetically engineered people are not magically connected to each other, they will have more in common with baselines they grow up with, their society they live in than another augment living another life in some different country.

People that refuse transhuman technology will just become some type of amish. You have the right to be enhanced but if you refuse it's your responsibility to deal with your choice. You might find a job like the amish do, but by your volition you will never be able to compete with augments. Pretty stupid.

>>12125337
>Sure, you can now how people with better genes but what would happen to people with bad genes?
Gene therapy? We can rewrite that shit with retroviruses, anon.

>>12125406
It does not matter
You did not make those augmentations - the government did.
As such
>speak against the government
>they shut down your heart

And no lol
Body purist aren't going to be replaced at all because there is something that is even better than cyborgs and they are a little something called a ROBOT.

It's either you are an actual human or a robot
Cyborgs do not have the same secured system as a human and does not have the same productivity of a robot. It's a failure of a design

>>12125407
That's great if it would only rewrite hereditary disease but where do we draw the line?
People would want to design their children the way they want.
The government don't want any liabilities and would weed out people with bad genes
And of course, they do not want substandard cititzens

>>12125337
>Your post reeks of so much naivety
I would say that of yours

>To start with A transhuman future is unlikely as people are creeped out with the idea of living in a body that was manufactured aritifically.
Actually, I've dreamed of having an artificial body since I was young. Dating all the way back to seeing Dr. Gero in animoo. Granted, it helps here growing up with illness. People in good health (presumably like you) might find it "creepy", don't automatically extend your interpretations to everyone.

>Secondly, genetic engeering would pave to an actual distopian future. Sure, you can now how people with better genes but what would happen to people with bad genes?
Here we go again. Why is it that people always jump to equating this with the likeness of what the Germans attempted nearly a hundred years ago. Unless you start your advanced genetic engineering background in an already fascistic oriented society, the likelihood of the real world and the easiest scenario is just that they'd be left to die of natural causes, i.e. old age. That aside, genetic engineering holds the key to something much more significant. Namely the prevention -and- cure to all diseases. While still not even necessarily limiting that to newborns.

>>12125424
Unless you specifically designed your own artificial body, no.
Once you replaced your body with one manufactured by the government, you are now their property

One bad word and they would make you explode.

Yes, of course
We've heard of all the benefits of genetic engineering
But please don't turn a blind eye and say that genocide will not happen

And would and this time, it would be backed with actual facts.

People would no longer be treated as humans
Rather, people would be branded and scored based on the quality of their genes.

This is your future

>>12125418
>the government did.
What goverment? What branch? What are the names of the people? And why can't I buy it from a corp, biohackers or learn to make my own? Sure, shady stuff will happen but dystopias are as ideal as utopia. No corp will survive the lawsuit if it gets out that they installed a zombie-file.
A cyborg will be smarter, more productive and more resilient than baselines. A BCI, nanomachines and additional organs could help a cyborg to think thousand times faster, smarter and never need to rest. A cyborg will indeed never outdo a perfected AI but cyborgs will still be the numero uno operator/researcher for the next century and more until superintelligent AI/uploads will make even transhuman obsolete. And a closed system keeps you clean from intrusion and with your enhancements it is easier to detect manipulations easier than baselines.

>>12125424
>People in good health (presumably like you) might find it "creepy",
Nah, even people with good health (no glasses, allergies and no medical condition) also want to be nanocyborg. I am one of them, I want to walk on the moon, on the surface of the ocean, live forever and just be free. It's a dream many share.

>>12125437
The same branch that created your aritificial body, duffus.
Deluding yourself that "it won't happen" is laughably stupid. Perhaps they would start simple and just drug out your system so you would be compliant until your brain became so dependent that you just have no choice but to do what the govenment wanted.

There are many many ways. USA alone have done many conspiracies against their own people and always will.

>A cyborg will be smarter, more productive and more resilient than baselines
Stop thinking like that. lol
A body purist would put his effort to just creating robots that would do the job for him.

A cyborg wanted to be a robot but does not have the same efficiency and completely enslaved by his manufacturer

>>12125432
>Once you replaced your body with one manufactured by the government, you are now their property
Maybe in China, but most goverments are too stupid or don't want that hassle.
>genocide will not happen
Why would it? Gattaca is a more likely scenario than Eugenics Wars. For such thing to occur you will need to separate augments from baselines, raise them in a master race belief and set them loose, but it is more likely that they will see themselves more in line of the society in which they grow up, their class, their family, their ideals or jobs. It is easier for an augment to simply use their own talents to rise up in society than to destabilize the system from which they profit from. And a "they" of augments won't exist, they will prefer the company of their baseline family/friends than some random augment. Still, they will be quite smart so you will see augments meet in groups as only a few baselines will be able to match their intelligence. But it will be based on intelligence not on racial grounds.

>>12125450
>A body purist would put his effort to just creating robots that would do the job for him.
A cyborg will do that too, but will built better robots and be better connected to them.

>>12125464
Stop ignoring history.
It happened more than once and would happen many more times.

>>12125467
At the cost of being a slave to your manufacturer? No thank you

>>12125450
>it won't happen
The degree is important. Will Black Ops crack open some skull and brainwash people? Yes and if your aren't a cyborg it will even be easier to them. But will it be commonly used? It will be extremly rare, first will be regulations, then there will be the competition, then there will be independent research and finally nobody will care enough to do it. Nobody in the goverment or corporation will care about you or me, why waste time/money on nefarious plots if it is easier to simply sell subplar products.

>>12125488
Stop living in fanfictions
A cyborg law enforcer is unlikely when robots are easier.
Robots can be at any size, manufactured enmass, and be loaded with bombs and none can give a shit.

There is no need to turn yourself into a cyborg when a real robot can do the job better an d a body purist won't be a slave to the manufacturer

>>12125476
The conditions that caused some genocides are not the same as given now or in the future. You will need a strong in-group thinking and feeling of danger from a group to justify a genocide and I simply don't see any augment to develop these. They will begin as elite and there will be no need to hate baselines, your parents are ones and the future belongs to you. And why should Khan care what Eugenius says, only because both are Aufments, no history exists between them.
>At the cost of being a slave to your manufacturer? No thank you
Closed system. Personally I also expect that supply/demand will create a corp that will simply save out from world domination plans and just want easy money for a reliable future.

>>12125505
>A cyborg law enforcer is unlikely when robots are easier.
If the robots is sapient? Yes, if not the cyborg is the better agent.

>>12125505
>body purist
Even a unconnected cyborg will be vastly superior to a baseline. Biomods can improve body and mind to such a scale that any baseline will simple fall behind. Still, even a baseline can outperform a cyborg and cybernetics/biomods don't replace experience even if their gain is facilitated with it. It will just be that in general such improvement will make one more capable. And again, I'm strictly talking about offline implants improvements.

>>12125510
Stop being an idiot.
We're talking about real genetic engineering here.
We can now recognize if someone has the potential to birth a midget or a giant, a beast or a beauty

All of which she be recorded and displayed on IDs to proclaim whether your have the right to give birth or be chemically castrated

That is your future.

>Closed system.
lul
You keep on saying that.
You did not make your artificial limb and therefore you are ALWAYS at the mercy of your manufacturer.

>>12125515
Robots remotely controlled.

>>12125532
Yeah, sure.
And an unconnected robot will be vastly superior to a cyborg. And he is controlled by a person who is not enslaved.

>>12125533
>Robots remotely controlled.
A cyborg will also use robots, just better than a baseline.
>right to give birth or be chemically castrated
Why? With CRISPR you can simply ensure that every child is not just born healthy but be gifted with all talents one can offer.
You like to oversimplifiy complex structures, I presented my case on how augments caused genocides are unlikely. The future won't be some B-dystopia but everything.

>>12125538
>And he is controlled by a person who is not enslaved.
Then he is connected.

A cyborg will also use robots, but his enhanced mental faculties will allow him a better usage of it thus it will beat one controlled by a baseline.

>>12125547
>>12125555
Yes, but what would happen to the people who are just born with bad genes? Are they now considered as second class citizens?

What about designer babies?
What about creating perfect soldiers?

Also shut up.
Not a single time have to addressed the fact that cyborgs are bound to be enslaved by the manufacturers.
You keep on avoiding and denying it.

An offline system would pack up bugs and gliches as time goes on. A cyborg would always need to visit the debuggers

A body purist need only vitamins and minerals.

>>12125565
>Are they now considered as second class citizens?
Depends on the profession they take. If the availability of designer becomes so great that everyone could have been born an augment, then non-aufments will be seen as unfortunate victims of amish/anti-vac parents. If augments are still a very small minority and/or degree of enhancement isn't that big. No difference will be seen as their capability is similiar or the power structures still belong to baselines.
>What about creating perfect soldiers?
Robots are better, especially ones operated by voluntary augments, but autocracies might breed augment-agents. Might work out or they get a super-rogue agent at hand.
>You keep on avoiding and denying it.
No, I as you can see >>12125488, gave my opinion and simply disagree with your position.
A offline cyborg will indeed not be as proficient as a connected one, but if security is your main worry, biomods, nanosymbionts and limited BCI can still grant you superhuman capability while staying unaffected by manufacture as your enhancement are not dependent on maintenance, are self-grower and a doctor can look up if they messed up something with it and fix it.
So will augments and bionano-cyborgs.

>>12125620
Stop
Living
In
Fanfics

People wanted things automated and AI'd
Cyborgs do not function as well as a robot and an AI.
The world wanted things automated and labor forced eliminated

Cyborgs have no place than to be enslaved.
If does not matter what fictiional security you generated. You can wrap your metal body in tinfoil for all I care
But until you learned to make your own body, you would always be at the mercy of someone else

For all we know, your system was poised to detonate/release poison if it was offline for too long.
Or outright fail if it is not on the line.

Later

>>12125638
>People wanted things automated and AI'd
Neurallink? A cyborgized human mind supported/merged with AI/exoself will outperform simple AI and most certainly baselines. Cyborgs won't be workers, but engineers, scientists and operatives.
The elites want to be cyborgs, but they are not united one big, happy conspiracy but compete with another over status, profit and power. Enslaved thinkers are bad thinkers and once its gets out that your corps enslaved nobody wants to work for you. Just pay them and you got reliable Transhumans who also pay others to cyborgize up to ease their work.
If the powers that be can hack a unconnected cyborg body, imagine the ease they will have with baseline bodies.
>For all we know, your system was poised to detonate/release poison if it was offline for too long.
Because there is only one supplier. Chaos and stupidity rules the world and not some overcompetent cabal of evil masterminds.

It gave me much pleasure to break your anime smug.

>>12125682
You addressed nothing
It's still not a body you made.
And therefore you are a slave that cannot speak against your master for fear of being detonated.

Sorry but that's just how it goes.

Honestly, I feel more of pity for you now
You wanted some artificial body so badly that you're willing to throw away your own commonsense and just believe that your manufacturer would not be cruel

You're a fool

I'm leaving to work now

When you complicate the very concept of humanity, everything is vanity.

>>12125682
High technology requires a lot of effort and resources. Unless this is stuff that can be done cheaply and easily from the get-go, every single supplier will be the result of a gigantic conglomerate that is neck deep with the state. So you'll get maybe 3-6 suppliers, but each and every one of them will make you a subject to a certain state + conglomerate. You might also not be allowed to use a foreign state's implementations for certain sensitive roles/ all roles depending on your own host state, which means you'll be forced to use a specific one. Think the computers industry, and how the american govnerment has backdoors implemented for them by the greatest companies.
>Chaos and stupidity rules the world and not some overcompetent cabal of evil masterminds.
You underestimate the human capability to organize. You don't need one single entity to reach a common feature, if you've got just a few you just need for that feature to be relevant enough and all of them will implement it. "terrorism prevention" is something every government would want, and you wouldn't have enough manufacturers to have a shot at one of them not implementing a liberty restraint feature. You might get different degrees of it at best. And since such industry would basically be a local monopoly, they would all push for more control over time, even if it doesn't start at full throttle.
Actually, one way this could not go to shit is if the first gen cyborgs are able to manufacture other first gen cyborgs, thus cutting the cycle of dependece before it becomes complete.

>>12125371
>no animal has wheels

Imagine telepathy. Now imagine that everyone can read your mind , but you can't theirs. That's what it's gonna be like if you put a computer in your head. As adware downloads into your brain, you'll realize the technological reality is nothing like the fantasy.

>>12114616
Negatives could be
>Large number of baselines who got "left behind" economic/political problems
>Unknown long term consequences of some types of post humans
>Reduction in baseline stock leading to genetic bottleneck, or population shrinkage
>Cost
Only ones I can think of on hand.

>>12125682
>A cyborgized human mind supported/merged with AI
Hold it right there, buckaroo
You must NEVER let someone diddle your brain without permission or they would outright wash your brain.

>>12114616
The difference between artificially advanced people and those who can't afford to/don't choose to become artificially advanced would be too much to bear, the resulting social unrest would throw us into a new scientific dark age.

Everybody claiming "Brave New World" is a dystopia never read the end of it.

>>12125383
> You have not raised any point that could avoid the sure fact that genetic engineering would result into a mass wave of genocide of people with bad genes

thats a good thing

> Also, people would now have to fight for the right to give birth because the state do not want "substandard" citizen.

also a good thing

>>12126866
It is though
Author confirmed it and created an actual Utopian counterpart entitled "Island".

>>12125933
>if the first gen cyborgs are able to manufacture other first gen cyborgs,
Government would ban that because they are of unsatisfying quality if not outright dangerous
"Buy only from licensed manufacturers"

>>12127225
They have no oversight over the bio hackers today, how will they manage with bio hackers that actually will be able to augment people? Black clinics world wide will outfit people and transhumanist enclaves will merge worldwide and beyond. There exists several goverments and interest groups that will struggle to keep it manageable but will fail. Even mainstream corporatrate enhancements won't be as dangerous as one imagined, aufmentstions won't be the next computer or smartphone but be the next house and will require therapy to get used to it. To minimize abuse stronger democratic institutions must pass regulations, laws and transparency to ensure the safe utilization of it.

>>12114616
Widening social inequality gap.
Also people need to realize that there is a sizable portion of the population that is legitimately evil. Evil in the sense that they want to destroy the world, want to see blood pouring everywhere, want death and destruction. I am not exaggerating.
Artificial human advancement will make it easier for these people to achieve their goals. That will not be cool for the rest of us.
Yet another negative side is the sheer buggyness of software. 99% of software developed by highly trained professionals today fucking sucks. It's awful. Bugs appear nearly every day.
Now it's highly probably that this enhancement you're thinking about will heavily rely on computer code. Given the sheer incompetence in software observed at the highest levels, there seems to be little reason to expect such devices to perform better.

>>12127686
>Also people need to realize that there is a sizable portion of the population that is legitimately evil.
Genetic engineering could allow for the removal of inborn sociopathy/psychopathy though.

>>12127722
This and cyborg firewalls would be an endgame factor. Its a rocky road to get to that point.

The only hope is the tik tok and onlyfans mudane equivalent of the future occurs because of the fact the most people are tech consumers rather than innovators. That and competing interests like what lead to the tik tok ban, ie. People keeping other people in check.

>>12114616
As said, you'll need to trust your entire civilization to not make this video your future, and this pic your new body.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFe9wiDfb0E

>>12116359
>>12116939
Say that to Euhaplorchis Caliphoniensis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euhaplorchis_californiensis

If a parasite that evolved randomly can do that, a supercivilization would easily be able to make an organism that rewrite your brain and memory to induce sudden and total obedience to grey skinned alien.

>>12127955
This is always a good vid against libertarian transhumanism.

>>12125291
I wish I was as optimist as you.
Nothing in the way the world is evolving suggest people sharing wealth and not seeking a competitive advantage over any other being alive.
We worship capitalism and self-called "elites" who only happen to inherit or win the Wall Street lottery, the rich refuse to share wealth as long as they can argue it's not their fault if other of the world are poor (it totally is).

Even if I don't share the silly "bad genes" of that other anon, as soon as we get robot that replace the poor people we will engage in a guilt-free economic genocide and whoever own theses robots (building other robots) will consider them their righteous property.

As we develop AIs we will NOT give up control for obvious reasons and as we are already doing now they'll be used to shape both the world and the infosphere to suit whoever control them.
And we the way we are so easily manipulated into depowering any democratic government, the only organization on which you truly have any kind of power left. There will be no organization left to enforce laws against a plutocrat class.

As simplistic as the plot of Elysium was, it alas depict a likely future.

>>12125418
>>12125432
People like you make a dystopia even more likely. While I unfortunately agree on many of your point, your uneducated insistence that it's a matter of "genetic superiority" show how people can be easily tricked by misunderstood ideas into behaving into a predetermined mindset.
To clarify:
All criterias for this "superiority" will be arbitrary, even a therapy for eternal life will require many other side aspect like wether or not it include eternal youth or how it manage the brain and memories.
We do not have yet a process to truly grade intelligence and the little we have don't care if you are a sociopath who want to kill everyone or a good Samaritan.

>>12128121
>Nothing in the way the world is evolving suggest people sharing wealth

>>12127673
>how will they manage with bio hackers that actually will be able to augment people?
You kidding?
Guns are licensed for a reason
So and clinics and prostetic manufacturers

Augmentations aren't computers. They will be classified under weapons and its distribution controlled and standards enforced

>>12128121
The biggest issue with human augmentation is indeed the growing gap between the rich and poor. Coupled with automatization your common baseline will not be able to compete with augments or get access to the necessary enhancements. That's why we need to establish a Universal Health Care System that does not just treats people but enhances them and lets no potential go wasted by enabling anyone to have access to good cybernetic and nanotechnological treatments. Through such a policy many more people could hold qualified jobs and pay taxes, preventing a harsh increase of unemplyoment caused by automatization. A UBI could also smooth the social changes. In developed nations this might work out, but then the already existing gap between rich and poor countries will grow even larger. In 100 years a common european or Japanese/korean will differ fundamentally from anyone that grow up in a third world.
Once machines will be able to think and think more economcial than even the best tech-supported augment, even such fix to the captialist system won`t work out, except by making all sapient life a posthuman intellect. But such development is still a century or two away, in an alien world.

>>12127974
Ok but that's under the topic of zombie apocalypse not hacking.

>>12116939
What about artifical proteus nanovirusis operating on a retroviral basis to modify your DNA?

>>12128271
If you cannot be controlled remotely by some overlord, then it's not the hacking that we want
It's just a zombie disease or whatever

>>12128195
First, you missed the point, we reached peak cooperation some time ago. The only reason we "share" (sell stuff to other expecting higher benefit) is because we are still interdependent on each others. The closer we get to AI who can replace most of us, the less we will be inclined to share.
Second, those charts doesn't help your point. Assuming you can trust them to not have bias or leave out billions out of the calculation, they only represent progress on basic needs and a shift in people way of life, a shift, not a improvement.
It also don't represent actual wealth shared.
Let's not even start with what "EXTREME poverty" actually cover. Just a very very low bar.

There's a reason behind the 99% movement.

You could still fit on those graph if you put humans into a Zoo with a "democracy" rigged to have no power over a few token elite who actually control the infrastructure and define the culture.

>>12128257
Stop being such a fag for artificiality. It's annoying how you turn a blind eye to its dangers

How about this?
If you are so concerned about cyborgs taking over all the jobs because they are much better than poor people, then why not just be a damn brain in a jar?
There, you have a maximum efficiency commanding robots to do your will.
And you will share a singular thoughts with many other brains that would exponentially increase your calculating speed so you will forever be unmatched

And you can also share thoughts with animal brains!
And to continue the existance of the brain in a jar races, simply create clones whose brains shall be extracted and grown before being transferred to the singular metal body.

Is that the future that you want?
Nothing but efficiency?

Value your humanity
If you turned yourself into a robot, then what part of you was not manufactured?

>>12128259
>Ok but that's under the topic of zombie apocalypse not hacking.
A mere parasite would do zombie.
A supercivilization would HACK you into staying fully aware but instantaneously trust them as soon as your sense is in presence of a specific stimulus.
There is study out there saying there may be a specific chemical reaction that control the "feeling of trust", I don't believe the vast majority of human to be rational enough to actually disregard their feeling and stick to rationality, especially since many of us will hear a lie then look very hard for proof that support it.

>>12128314
What difference does not make?
If the virus lost his sense of danger, he is still not obedient just to you. He is just a sick guy with a broken frontal lobe or something

>>12114629
They're way too aggressive.

>>12125128
>you’re going to pull the chicken’s organs with your dick out if you try and fuck it
Now I really want to do it

>>12128257
>enhances them
I also read the rest but good luck coming up with enhancement people agree on.
We will need incredible ethic to keep people working together with people who refused (or chose different) upgrade, there will likely be war just on how fast we should improve intellect or wether those people should be made ruler.
You already have idiots right now who want to enforce roles for man and women.

Even if the endgame is everyone living in a matrioshka brain where everyone have the best of what science is capable of and fully understand the science behind their own brain, the road to get there is NOT going to be one obvious ethical road everyone agree on.
Some group will take one road, some will take another road and murder/enslave/force those who didn't.

>>12128294
>How about this?
It would be the first step, of course you will use a robot/computer body and not a jar to hold you. Then I hope that we use the moravec mind transfer to gradually replace all one`s neurons over a year with nanomachines until your entire brain is cybernetic. You will still be a analog being though, but the mind shift method might a solution to become a digital being. Your mind grows into your exoself until all your mind process mostly occur outside your head and once you have outsourced enough of your critical thinking process in digital form you gradually can delete your analog brain until even the last vestiges of physical life has been overcome. Such process can take decades, need vast amount of ressources, autosentience and you will change fundamentally.
>Is that the future that you want?
I want to a megacivilization that searches all possibilties, explores all inner and outer spaces and tries to understand all.
>Value your humanity
The phenomenon of man is unique. After a billion years, blind evolution has brought forth the first animal capable of rational inquiry. In us, the universe has finally developed the ability to look back upon itself and transcend the limits of randomness. From this point onward, the fate of the universe will not be a matter of chance, but of conscious choice.

>>12128435
>I also read the rest but good luck coming up with enhancement people agree on.
There I refer to Nick Bostrom. Genetically modifying one`s children should orientate itself around non-positional traits while adults can modify themselves as they want. What I expect is no war, because if immortalality is in the game many don`t want to waste that chance in a war. Improtant is not if you got the best leader, but if your system is stable and legimtiate enough in the eyes of the important powers in your societies.
>Even if the endgame is everyone living in a matrioshka brain where everyone have the best of what science is capable of and fully understand the science behind their own brain, the road to get there is NOT going to be one obvious ethical road everyone agree on.
That is true, I suspect a plethora and divergent forms of mind, from panocratic mind-ressource managements to exdependent hider communities.

>>12128625
And that is the part where you proved that you are a popsci idiot.

Mind transfer is impossible because of no-cloning theorem. The result isn't a transfer but an imperfect copy of you.
Is that what you want? To be a Borg?
Do you think that you're still alive at that point?
Of course not.

And stop thinking that you are not part of nature.
You consume, you degrade, and you die.
End of story.

Humans flaws are also his restraints
Remove one restraint completely and he will be consumed by sin, and flood the world with misery. Humanity either has to step down at this point, or to make sure our future texh is compatible with the nature of the man. Trying to build a better human is a losing game.

>>12128664
>Mind transfer is impossible because of no-cloning theorem. The result isn't a transfer but an imperfect copy of you.
Neurogenesis? Your brain cells are contiously replaced by younger clones of itself. The gradual upload methods aka morvec transfers are viable as you do not create a copy but use the mind process to change the substrate.
>And stop thinking that you are not part of nature.
Nature has no intrinsic value, only conscious minds can create values. Don't be dominated by Mother Nature. You, as a man, can take control of your own destiny.

>this guy
Man, I cannot imagine anything more shameless than sharing a brain.

I'm not asking you to do some philosophical exercises and foster a sense of individuality.
I'm just asking you to have even an ounce of dececy.

Do you want to share your room with another fuck? Share the bathroom? Run naked on the road?
Then why the fuck would you want to be a matrioshka brain?

>>12128684
lul
Stop being so pretentious. It's embarassing
Your brain is your brain. The copy is a copy.

You are a product of nature, you are affected by time, and you will die. I'm not a hippie but I laugh hard at people who thinks that they are gods because they use gadgets they do not understand

>>12128686
Do you even know what a matrioshka brain is?

>>12128724
There is no convenient word for interconnected brains in a jar.
You get the point

>>12128693
>Your brain is your brain. The copy is a copy.
Yes? But your brain is not unchanging. The Moravec Transfer doesn`t create a copy. You can of course refuse new information and remain tautological but with that you only create a stasis of will, stagnation.
>and you will die
I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even five hundred would be pretty nice.

>>12128755
>Proposed by Dr. Hans Moravec in the book Mind Children, this describes how a human brain could be transformed into a mechanical structure made from nanobots, without the brain in question losing consciousness:

>A neuron-sized robot swims up to a neuron and scans it into memory. A computer starts simulating the neuron. The robot waits until the neuron perfectly matches its simulation inside the computer, and then replaces the neuron with itself as smoothly as possible, sending inputs to the computer and transmitting outputs from the simulation of a neuron inside the computer.

>This entire procedure has had no effect on the flow of information in the brain, except that one neuron's worth of processing is now being done inside a computer instead of a neuron. Repeat, neuron by neuron, until the entire brain is composed of robot neurons whose guts are inside the computer.

>This description originally written by Eliezer Yudkowsky.
I laugh.
I am laughing.
Is this how you firmly believe you can get to cybernetic immortality? By scanning your brain and copying it neuron by neuron?

lol
Consiouness is not stored in the neuron. In fact, it isn't stored at all as far as data is concerned. We cannot even find it at the quantum levels.

Your nanobots are nanoscale.
We are talking about a biological organism that has achived precision at pico, femto, and atto scales

Shut the fuck up

I'm starting figure out why transhumanists are so inclined with technology - it's because they have no idea how it works

By being clueless about the topics of both biology and technology, you begin to foster a belief that they are not just compatible, they are also one in the same.
By all means, it's absolutely idiotic
Transistors are amongst the most complex semi-conducting device ever made and revolutionized technology. However, it is extremely simple when compared to the chemical structure of a lipid.
Even datas on computers are nothing more than chemical reactions induced by transistors at the nanolevel and given function via electromagnetic induction.
Such a thing is extremely simple when compared to genome sequence of even just the simplest virus

The complexity of biological organism are so much in fact that to this day, there is no mathemathical formula that could even make sense of conciousness. There have been many attempts to link it with the quantum mechanics but so far it's not working.
Biology is so many leagues higher than computer science. Which explains why it has so many branches compared to other fields.

Those who studied technology are always more inclined to avoid it as the more complex it is, the more likely it is to break.

>>12128804
>By scanning your brain and copying it neuron by neuron?
Yes, but that is just a vast oversimplification of the process: http://www.mind.ilstu.edu/curriculum/extraordinary_future/PhillipsCh4.php
It`s more about creating artifical brain cells that take over the functions of the natural ones.
>Consiouness is not stored in the neuron
Because it is not stored at all but is a emergent product of the various processes of the brain.
>precision at pico, femto, and atto scales
Now you are talking bullshit, the fundamental nature how brain functions differs not from how a mouse brain functions and there we already used artifical brain cells: https://www.futuretimeline.net/blog/2020/03/14-brain-artificial-neurons.htm

>>12128842
I aint reading that crap. It is so clear that you have no idea of what it even is

>artifical brain cells
lol
Exactly!
Neurons are many many times larger than a transistor and yet a single one holds greater efficiency and calculating speed than any circuitries ever made and as far as knowledge over valence electrons are concerned, it's unlikely to get surpassed.

The brain uses less than 1/5 of your calorie intake and you are comparing it to a computer?
I am laughing
Laughing hard

>>12128854
We are not even near the Landaur limit. Molecular computing for example could offer us the necessary computing power for a fúnctional swarm of nanomachines that take over the functions. It`s all in the links I shared.

>>12128868
Argument to Ignorance is a falacy, my boy
>it cannot be proven false therefore it must be real

Consiousness is far more complex than just a bunch of molecules. Precision of robots can only reach nanolevels (virus size) as any further and you are as small as a single carbon atom.

If conciousness exist at nanolevels, viruses can hijack your memories with another

>>12128683
>sin

>>12114629
and they make great tendies

>>12125337
>Sure, you can now how people with better genes but what would happen to people with bad genes?
>Yes, exactly
>Genocide would be legalized and moralized.
I didn't know we were genociding down syndrome and autistic people.

>>12128658
>What I expect is no war, because if immortalality is in the game many don`t want to waste that chance in a war.
That would be sensible if we didn't have ways to kill people remotely, indirectly or evade the blame for doing so. Plus the reticence of other to declare war because X attacked a minority.
Also never underestimate the willingness of one to accept collateral damage that is not himself.

>>12128693
>>12128804
>>12128854
Anon, if you knew how stupid you sound with your rhetoric you'd stop laughing.
All it boil down to is you playing the luddite "will never happen" part without actually showing a better understanding of the topic.
The other anon, as optimistic as he is, is doing a much better job than you.

>>12115127
Depends on the breed and if you hand rear them. I had a rooster that jumped in my lap to be stroked. You can really calm them down to the point where they start 'purring'.

>>12114629
I've heard they're pretty dirty and smell quite bad though these may only be issues with having many.

>>12131565
>to kill people remotely, indirectly or evade the blame for doing so.
This would forbid all-out war though, I do see the possiblity that some polity will decide that some form of augmentation is unethical and decide to make a "police action" to contain it on another nation. Parahuman, uncontrolled AI and xoxing for example.

>>12114616
On the computer side- hacking first and foremost. Imagine how easy it would be to assassinate someone who had something like Neuralink.
On the genetic side- cold war arms race to God knows where with trying to make the perfect soldiers. That's especially an issue concerning nations like China who have no morals or restraints in any way and who are at a natural disadvantage against their enemies. Chinese soldiers are small, weak, stupid and pretty much all around terrible for attempting to win a war with; China wouldn't hesitate to make their soldiers seven foot tall, 400 pound muscle monster, super geniuses since if they could do that they could make them naturally subservient to some controlling sect of the party.
>>12125366
Your health, fitness, and especially intelligence all affect your personality.

Also anyone who thinks the elites wouldn't take any opportunity to create their own slave class has no understanding of who is in positions of power. They literally believe that anyone who isn't them is born to serve them and is on the same level as farm animals. If they ever have the opportunity to make sure no one is smarter than absolutely necessary to perform their necessary tasks they will take it. They're already trying their best to do so with what they've got now.

>>12114616
Non-artificial human advancement when?

>>12132378
>Also anyone who thinks the elites wouldn't take any opportunity to create their own slave class has no understanding of who is in positions of power.
Robots would be cheaper.
Surely there is such a social ladder but they are never clear cut, elites as a monolithian group do not exist, they always compete with each another and who they are and their values depend on their profession and milieu. Blind economic structures influence the world far more than any insidious rich elites.

>>12128435
Winston is a cool and lucky guy.

>Elites become borg
>Gain robot workforce
>hack the elites
>Get countrol of all them and all their stuff
Yeh

>>12132404
You know what wouldn't be cheaper? A fuckton of people demanding better living conditions and wages that increase along with the overall wealth of society. That's why they make sure that doesn't happen. If they go all in on robots and stop needing human workers then some way or another they'll make sure they get to keep as much of their wealth as possible. Of course not all of the elites are one big happy family, but they'd choose each other over filthy proles every single time so long as siding with the proles won't gain them anything, which pretty much never does. You're also forgetting that they aren't logical robots tweaked for maximizing efficiency, they have their own beliefs which make them do things that aren't necessarily good for them or anyone just because they feel compelled to do so.
>>12132451
Does he always draw human men with animal women?

>>12132588
>Does he always draw human men with animal women?
Strange question. As far I know the author doesn't draw much, Florence is one of the only 3 non-human biological cast, the robots number in the hundred of millions. Humans are 20,000.

Note: Considering your remarks, you SHOULD read the webcomic Freefall. It will take a 2000strip before you get why I said that but that's a complete narrative arc.

Aside
>You know what wouldn't be cheaper? A fuckton of people demanding better living conditions and wages that increase along with the overall wealth of society.
People will ideally ask to have as much as you (especially if you don't merit more or if having the idea first cease to be a valid reason), so human are unlikely to be cheaper than robot.
Plus, if some nation refuse to use robots, others will, and they will eventually outcompete humans.

>>12132451
I like how his mother think.