/sci/ - Science & Math

moon sex

>>11904970
>Realistically, what can they hope to accomplish?
Sustained operations beyond low Earth orbit. A drive to lower launch costs. More commercialization of space. Allow for deeper study's of the moon and beyond. Give America a solid footing in space before competing nations do. Gain access to space resources. And some that I'm probably forgetting.

>>11904970
there is a theoretical lots of things you can do. the main and most important part is a sort of hub. they can mine the surface and create fuel. so any ship wanting to go farther can refuel there it will fix a lot of issues we have now. making asteroid and mars missions a lot easier. or just in general any mission.

>>11904970
NASA's focus could change again after the election. Even if the same president gets elected. That's just the way things go with NASA

>NASA

Sorry OP I think you misspelled SpaceX

What should I study if I want to go to space (presuming there's a real push into space), what skills will be required to be on the moon/in space?

>>11904970
>Believing that 2024 date
They can barely make a footprints and flag mission in 2024, let alone building a base.

>>11904970
Building a mass-driver launch platform to destroy China.

>>11905577
Wasn't NASA budged cut like 10 times over or something? How can they plan building anything? Prove me wrong though.

>>11905773
Compared to the Apollo era it's about half the budget. But NASA nowadays does much more than early NASA with various robotic missions, maintaining ISS, etc. There's no solid plan besides a general roadmap to build a moon base. We did have a Lunar orbit Gateway, but even that has been pushed back in favor of a boots-and-flags on the moon mission ala Apollo 11 in 2024. And even the White House NASA couldn't even get congress to pay for the lander, they're sticking to the 2028 goal.

>>11904970
They could build a McDonald's on the moon.

>>11904970
missile base

>>11904970
Spend about 30 billion before Biden shuts it down and tells NASA to start on an entirely different project.

>>11904970
>Realistically, what can they hope to accomplish?
Quite a lot important stuff actualy:
>research effects of low gravity on human bodies
>research effects of low gravity on plants
>research lunar regulith composition
>research habitat building techniques
>optimize long therm landing missions

>>11904970
Telescopes, now that our skies are being filled up with satellites.
A huge radio astronomical telescope at the limb of the moon, using earth - moon baseline with a terrestrial telescope.
He3 mining.
Rare Earth exploration.

>>11906582
How would you go about building a telescope on the moon? I'm curious at the logistics.

>>11906590
Many proposals are out there including a horizontal slowly rotating basin filled with Hg plus a plan mirror to direct the view.
Many smaller mirrors put together is also popular.

For radio astronomical use a mesh will do.

>>11904970
It is theoretically possible to turn a large crater on the Moon's dark side into a gigantic telescope. Lack of an atmosphere and light pollution, as well as its sheer size, will make it magnitudes better James Webb Space Telescope, which by itself greatly transcends Hubble.

>>11904970
Realistically they won't have a moonbase by 2024.

>>11904970

Mining of unprecedented amounts of REEs, and experiments/R&D with industrial processes in weightlessness

>>11907046
>Mining of unprecedented amounts of REEs
You mean rare Earth elements, or literal ree's from the "Earth first" types?

>>11906897
that sounds sick

>>11906897

Hubble was literally a spare spysat

>>11907051

Sorry lol, the former. I hope the US doesn't try and gatekeep the rest of the planet from lunar wealth.

>>11906897
And NASA can probably finish it by the same time JWST is ready.

>>11906590
1km wide wire spider net suspended over a crater on the dark side
all you need is couple of rovers to unfold and anchor it

>>11906897
>the Moon's dark side
>>11907300
>the dark side
Too much Star Wars and too little understanding of geometry.

Also, you want to use the limb of the moon so that you can get a baseline all the way to earth.

>>11904970
Does anyone have the original image without that god awful logo on the right?

>>11907703
I meant far side of the moon. I never even watched Star Wars.

>>11909401
>I meant far side of the moon.
That would reduce the baseline needlessly and complicate transmission of the reception a lot. Mare Orientalis is in a convenient place.

>>11909880
Building a telescope on the visible side of the Moon would expose it radio pollution from Earth. Data transmission can be done through a relay satellite.
https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2020_Phase_I_Phase_II/lunar_crater_radio_telescope/

>>11909974
mare Orientalis is on the limb of the moon and is not visible from earth. I am not sure how familiar you are with RF technology but the image I posted in >>11909880 should have told you that the structure is very beneficial in eliminating radio signals from earth, while making it possible to stretch a short optical fibre to a near side transmitter to send the received signal back to earth. it also allows for easier interferometric control.

As for the project with a parabolic receiver for HF it seems excessively complex when a normal start would be a plain dipole array. Someone wants to run before learning how to crawl. That is the attitude which has given us grief such as the James Webb Telescope.

>>11907058
these contracts for space minerals were signed a decade ago, there were massive scandals about secret conferences and trillions in bearer bonds being carted around the globe.

>>11904970
I wish I could find it again but I remember a great interview with Robert Zubrin where he shed a lot of light on why political and administrative tomfoolery is the thing holding space exploration back.
For example he had to scrap the original mars direct proposal because it completely bypassed the ISS. NASA in order to justify the boondoggle of the ISS has to build every mission around it. So he had to come back with a second less efficient proposal that required a third launch just to fit NASA policy.
Also he talked about how you had to be able to go from the drawing board to implementation and be far enough along that the sunk costs and momentum keep the project going before the current presidential administration gets out of office or else the next guy is going to scrap the whole thing to save money on the budget to score brownie points with their constituency.

>>11904970
More than any attempt on Mars, including space colonies.

>>11904970
Could've had one in 70s. So much time wasted.

>>11910026
As many Mars proponent Zubrin is a liar trying to make you believe that groundbreaking technology will spontaneously appear to retroactively justify him.
The ISS did more for mankind and future space exploration than planting a flag ever would have.
It's not just a question of cost-efficiency, we simply do not have the technologies required to have a self-sufficient base so we need to develop them in LOE or on Luna before we can even consider a colony.

>Also he talked about how you had to be able to go from the drawing board to implementation and be far enough along that the sunk costs and momentum keep the project going before the current presidential administration gets out of office

Did he also mention how he hope to guilt trip entire country using the lives of Mars one colonist and sunk cost fallacy?
This sort of guys are not bound by ethics, he would likely kill the project for a self-sustaining Moonbase if it gave him budget to plant a flag on Mars.

>>11904970
Everything Marsfags are promising and more.

I've been dreaming of a Moon base since the late 60s. But the more that I've studied about the known properties and abundant challenges presented by Lunar soil in general and Moon dust in particular, the more pessimistic I am about the endeavour. And to be clear - I'm not saying that Moon dust will make a Moon base unfeasible, only that the very significant risks (particularly to equipment and human health) will need to be better understood and managed.

"I think dust is probably one of our greatest inhibitors to a nominal operation on the moon. I think we can overcome other physiological or physical or mechanical problems except dust," Gene Cernan

>>11910365
What a nerd! We can just blow away the dust with giant fans.

>>11910396
Indeed, giant vacuum-proof lunar fans FTW. ;) :D
I mean, lunar dust has electrostatic properties and is derived from the melding of rock, mineral and glass produced from the heat of micrometeoroid impacts. That stuff would confound and eff up equipment and a human body pronto.

>>11910437
>electrostatic properties
So we'll just use giant magnets. Stop being such a nerd, Jesus.

>>11910453
I sincerely wish that it were otherwise.
I sometimes blame the space concept art of the 50s, 60s and 70s - all the equipment and spacesuits on the Moon are so shiny, white, and clean.

>>11910453
Lunar dust is super abrasive and gets into everything. I really do wish that something as simple as fans and magnets would do the trick.

>>11904970
They're just going to promote niggers in space. You can screencap this but you already know I'm right.

>>11910220
Mars direct had nothing to do with mars one esl-kun.
And the ISS, just like the shuttle program did as much harm as it did good since you have to justify its existence and continued funding by making as many missions run through it as possible.
Both things had really great intentions that were never realized because of political compromises.
Anyone old enough to remember space station freedom will also remember the constant watering down until we it became the basic bitch that is the ISS.

There would be a moon base right now if the US thought it would further their hegemony. The only reason governments do fuck all is to cement their power and give rewards to their supporters. That's literally the only reason anything happens. Space travel was used in the 60s because the US was worried the Russians would get there first. Every other country is so far behind there's no reason to go to space ever. Hypersonic weapons make ICBMs obsolete and you don't need anything more than some gps satellites to make those work, and they could use AI and some kind of inertial guidance to hit their targets. The age of space travel is OVER, and it will be punctuated by looming EROI decay, crop blights, and an an automated WWIII. Humans had their chance to live forever, they blew it and it's only a matter of time before they run out of food, energy, and die.

>>11909999 (check'd)

The location of the first lunar telescope

>>11905340
This is why I want Trump to win if just because it lowers the chance of the moon base being scrapped.
Unironically the moon base will be the most important thing humans do this generation

>Spend 100 billion on a few battlestations that literally get decommissioned in a year
>Spend literally 1.5 trillion on a failed airplane
>NOOOOOOO WE CAN'T WASTE MONEY ON GOING TO SPACE
I would say fuck America but it's not like any other country gives a shit either.
What the fuck is wrong with politicians?

>>11911058

>>11907046
>Mining of unprecedented amounts of REEs
Get, from Europoors I assume

>>11910026
That shit depresses me. God I hope Trump wins.

>>11906590
Piece by piece and assemble it?

Why moonbase in objectively the best idea
>Greately decreases cost of deep space travel due to it being able to be a refueling system
>Trillions of dollars worth of rare earth elements that could greately decrease the cost of computers
>kickstart company space race for mining, greatly decreasing launch cost and creating the first human off world colonies to get those resources
>Learn a shit ton about what it takes to live off of worlds but in a relatively easy situation where earth is just close enough to help if anything goes wrong
>Get actual children born outside of earth and the moon will certainly be the first non earth body to house 1000 people and likely even 1,000,000 people
>Makes going to mars far FAR easier do to the above
Moon colonization is more important than colonizing mars and a moon base is the first step.
Biden will probably scrap it though if he is elected.

>>11911058
>That governor that had his state build an entire fucking battleship that the US military literally said they have no need for and don't want
>BUT ALL THE JOBS IT WOULD CREATE
>US decommission battle station on the same day it was completed
Why don't we just pay people to build a fucking wall and then pay them to destroy it? Fuck this shit. Fuck America. Fuck humanity. 13 BILLION DOLLARS GONE TO WASTE

>>11911110
>>11911058
This picture cost more than a moon base would.

>>11911116
lol

>>11910547
Zubrin was an adviser for Mars One, are you sure you can read english?
Mars direct have the same relationship with truth, except instead of stepping on ethic tripmine he pushed the memes that Mars require no complex technologies in the hope of slipping it through approval before we discovers the lie.
For all the imagined harm you blame on the ISS and the Shuttle, there would have been nothing worse than spending all that money on a vain flag plant on Mars. Robots have been exploring the planet better than any human sent there could ever have. Even getting sample back is not as interesting as getting more data from more diverse landing zone.
The ISS taught the entire world to cooperate for science and our future in space so you can say it was even useful to maintain peace. The rare people arguing against that tend to be ultra-nationalist.

I won't defend clusterfuck like SLS, the shuttle itself was crippled by military requirement, the feats of SpaceX engineers prove that they've stagnated, always trying to preserve old job instead of making new tech.
It's still retarded to go Mars before we have the technology to do anything useful there, an no we don't have the tech for a colony, we'll need to study that on the Moon.

>>11910476
Give it time, next we will discovers Mars dust give cancer and still go anyway.
The error is to have people going in and out in the first place. You will have to maintain the equipment but it will be easier if it doesn't have to be assembled around the user before each sortie.

>>11912264
>but it will be easier if it doesn't have to be assembled around the user before each sortie.
How do you imagine that can be done?

>>11911121
mashallah

>>11905027
has ANY astronaut had sex yet in space?

>>11912264
Mars was devastated by a planet wide nuclear war. Inhabitation is beyond impossible seeing as the first thing any child born on mars would want to do is immigrate back to earth. People are desperate to escape to America from El Salvador. How much more would martians want to come to earth and enjoy its superior economic opportunities and standard of living. The only way to keep a constant population on mars would be slavery, literally preventing them from emigrating out and drastically shrinking any viable population.

>>11913011
Does John Glenn masturbating count?

>>11910010
Source?

>>11904970
Such a waste in money. This money would be better spent on racial justice and the poor.

>>11911116
And one submarine can sink and it'll never see serious engagement anyways. The state of spacefare is an utter joke when you look at shit like this, especially since superior launch capability and orbital presence are a thousand times more strategically valuable than another carrier could ever be.

>>11912986
See the pic >>11912264
The astronaut enter their suit as if they entered a docked spaceship.
Also, just put money in remote control robot, they are the future.

>>11914179
I have seen those concepts. The problem is that the lid separating the suit from the dock will be part of the suit and thus contaminated. There is at least one surface you will be exposed to.

>>11913011
Every female astronaut has been been plowed multiple times. Whores can't keep legs closed for long extended periods of time. I thought this was /sci/? You should know this.

>>11904970
Some diversity hire is going to burn down or blow up the base accidentally.

NASA ain't building shit.

>>11914185
The point is to minimize the problem. Here you'll only have trouble near the joint between the lid and the suit.
None of that dust is going to give you COVID, it's just very annoying.

>>11914201
Gangbangs in microgravity can be dangerous though, all that jizz flowing you never know where is going to land.

Some good news for moon mining:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200701151724.htm
>There has been considerable debate over how the Moon was formed. The popular hypothesis contends that the Moon was formed by a Mars-sized body colliding with Earth's upper crust which is poor in metals. But new research suggests the Moon's subsurface is more metal-rich than previously thought, providing new insights that could challenge our understanding of that process.

So where should the first moon base be located?

>>11911050
>>11911075

>This is why I want Trump to win...

Am I a bad person for agreeing with you?
I do not care much for the USA citizens.

>>11905934
you jest but its inevitable
first fastfood franchise in space will probably be McDonalds or Starbucks. Probably get an apple store, too, so they can gloat about it. And the FIRST Tesla franchise will obviously be on the Moon, starting Tesla's slow descent into normie status.

>>11915991
>Tesla's slow descent into normie status
Now THAT is what I call science fiction.

>>11906590
one of the concepts was to use a lunar crater as a -more or less- parabolic structure for the mirrors, and a suspended receiver at the focus. it's actually the one I like the most

>>11915937
Yes. Yes you are. I love space exploration, but fuck Trump. He'd rather funnel campaign money into his personal business, play golf, and make retarded claims on twitter.

>>11915991
I was anticipating a reduction in funding for Artemis as a result of the pandemic and for SpaceX to take up the slack. As a minimum I would expect astronauts to land on the moon and start doing extensive minerological surveys.

>>11915643
Sounds interesting. I haven't read the article yet but it seems logical that heavier elements thrown up in impact ejecta would settle first and end up covered in a layer of lighter elements.

As for your question all eyes are on the south pole crater because there is a giant metallic asteroid buried there deep within the crust. There is also water ice in craters there.

>>11911058
>>11911110
>>11911116
this is literally why the Constellation program was cancelled after the first successful test launch of the Ares I and we now have that fucking pile of shit that is the SLS

>the Space Shuttle had three engines
>they were made to be reused
>they were made to work in a wide range of external pressures
>the SLS will not be reusable
>the SLS could have had two stages with optimized engines instead on one giant orange turd
it's literally a rocket built around a specific type of engine, but the engine was originaly built around another type of mission that has nothing to do with how the SLS will work. I still today can't understand how someone can be so retarded

>>11915643
What is that map from? My first thought was Gundam

>>11911121
I've already seen this pic, what happened?

>>11915937
not even USA citizens care for the USA citizens

>>11916040
https://www.deviantart.com/ynot1989/art/2051-Luna-and-Orbit-667008997
Someone making fantasy maps, usually from a basis of real geography.

>>11910365
>>11910476
The solution there is to make the suits like the ones NASA has designed for this new era of moon exploration where the suit attaches to the side of the ship or habitat module and you climb out the back into the pressurized cabin while keeping the suit still outside in the vacuum of space. Don't bring the suits or anything else that might have dust on it into your habitat area and problem solved.

>>11905536
military jet fighter pilot (either air force or navy, but it's gotta be supersonic) plus a master's degree in a STEM field. look at NASA astronaut pilots and that's always the resume. mission specialists don't need the jet fighter experience but there's more people competing for those spots

>>11916242
It is strange how many recent astronauts have battle field experience, are they expecting the Martians to resist the colonisation??

>>11910453
Magnets against electrostatic charges? Hmmmmmm

>>11916030
Trump can do whatever the fuck he wants so long as he keeps the moonbase coming and the like.
Trump is an absolute retard, no contest there, but he's a retard that will hopefully funnel some money to space instead of putting it towards more gibsmedats to poors.

>>11916358
It makes sense to have at least one person in the group who's been through tough shit and can keep a cool head.

>>11906370
This is the main reason im voting Trump. Can't let NASA completely change direction again.

>>11904970
>Realistically, what can they hope to accomplish?
To maybe fly a lunar orbit mission by then.

>>11907051

>>11910162
I console myself thus:

Kennedy framed space exploration as a race against the Soviets, with the moon as the finish line. This meant that huge resources were committed to space, allowing rapid development -- but also ensuring that, once the race was won by one side or the other, interest would drop and resources dry up. The race was over, both sides moved on to other priorities.

So maybe we didn't lose all that much time -- we would not have gotten to the moon in the 60s without the race, moving at "normal" speed, we might have gotten there by now, or maybe not.

>>11910396
We has a genius amongst us, boys!

>>11913021
While I agree that a lot of mars born natives will want to come back to earth, a lot of people will volunteer to work on mars for the sole reason of being able to contribute to something they see bigger than themselves. This doesn't even take into consideration that life on mars will be pretty much taken care of for you at minimum. More than likely volunteers will be get paid generously.

>>11904970
Unveil what the secret space program found in the 1980s.

>>11917365
>and can keep a cool head
They used test pilots before. Front line experiences can drag in ugly things such as PTSD.

>>11916358
>>11918311
I'd imagine they'd be thoroughly vetted for any potential psychological issues.
I am curious though, what are the backgrounds like for other nations astronauts/cosmonauts?

>>11918327
I think most were/are test pilots, also the early US astronauts were test pilots.

>>11916036
>As for your question all eyes are on the south pole crater because there is a giant metallic asteroid buried there deep within the crust.
This sounds like a good start for a science fiction movie. Does anyone have an idea of the type of metal? A search on the net reveals much about mass but nothing about density.
>There is also water ice in craters there.
The military has already identified these and the nearby "peaks of eternal light" as strategic positions. There are public documents about these.

>>11913011
I have heard rumours that herpes spread among some ISS crew members. Supposedly started from a female cosmonaut.

>>11917476
I see what you did there.
Bit hard for a fan to move anything without any air.

>>11918661
Off the top of my head it is DEEP in the crust but was only partially melted. It was degermined that it was metallic magnetically. I am unsure how those results are determined compared to density tests.

>>11918712
>Off the top of my head it is DEEP in the crust but was only partially melted.
Yes, 300 km is a tad deep for mining operations. As for magnetism it could be iron, various oxides or more fancy compounds. Were it extremely dense it would be something like Psyche in which case 300 km will be worth it still.

And partially melted after digging 300 km in? Weird.

>>11918798
Theory goes it sank when the moon was still partially molten. 300km would be too deep on earth but the lower gravity and cooler crust/mantle would make it possible on the moon. Admittedly not initially but in time it will be easier to harvest than a free orbiting asteroid. China and the USA will both want claims on this resource for the future.

>>11918914
That is still strange. The impact alone should have released enormous amounts of heat and liquefied parts of the moon and most of the impactor. Or was the asteroid made of tungsten and molybdenum?

>>11919213
I am just the cleaner man. I think it was a slow impact when both bodies were partially molten. Like Ultima Thule only hotter.

>>11904970
Not much.
About a week ago, the democrats decided not to give NASA the funding it needed for most of its goals and proposed a flat budget be allocated for the future. How else are those illegal immigrants going to get their healthcare when they arrive?

>>11919319
With all the personal prestige Trump put into the lunar plans it would be inevitable that the opposition would reject it outright. They would not even be expected to even read the plans or even remember that it was Kennedy that set the moon race in action.

>>11904970
Tourism

>>11919582
Politics is always screwing us progressionals over.

>>11904970
The risk of being hit by a meteorite is significantly larger without a protective atmosphere. Those shooting stars we see at night are deadly projectiles at the surface of the moon. Maybe Musk can bring his Boring company up there to dig a fat ass particle accelerator?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_zzw4tSOe8

>>11919641
There is supposed to be extensive networks of lava tubes but we won't know until we go there.

>>11917375
NASA will be asked to change direction anyway. Stop believing nonsense from children.

>Send up janky lunokhod with Chernobyl bulldozer attachment
>make little cave fit for space teenagers to smoke their moondust in

With all the money being saved you could afford to stick a laser pen on it and burn 'TAIWAN NUMBA 1' inside. 2024 EZPZ.

>>11919681
If there truly is ice in the polar craters it means only an insignificant amount of meteorites strike those areas. Most orbiting objects are near the ecliptic.

The US military discussed placing bases insides the peaks of eternal light.

>>11905034
in reality, just fucking up the rest of the milky way

>>11920041
That is very interesting. This could all be easier than expected. Man I wish I was better educated. Maybe they will need somebody to man the moondust dragliners and I can still go.

>>11919319
>>11919582
>>11919618
Basically. When I first heard about the Artemis program I was excited because I thought it would be nice to finally have a pro-space president in office. Then I realized how Trump basically made it his pet project, then freaked out when I realized that Trump is a very polarizing president so although this felt like a positive shift at first, it's actually the worst thing that could happen to NASA because now space exploration will forever be considered a "red thing" instead of a "blue thing". He took what was originally an apolitical issue and firmly branded it. Now the left with always REEEEEEEEEE whenever budgeting for any space topic comes is mentioned. Biden is old school though, he remembers the Apollo days so maybe it won't be so bad when he wins.

>>11920041
>Outer Space Treaty blocks your path.

>>11917665
go to /x/ for that

>>11916215
Sadly it seems like these are not going to be used due to time limitations

>>11920735
There is always a loophole, in this case the same as for the South Pole: having a base is practically the same as occupying an area. That is why the US military wanted to have a base in the PoEL. It is the same with the Lagrange points.

>>11913794
Ok fine give them loans and put them in jail if they don't pay them back.
sounds fair.

>>11913794
So instead waste money trying to fix things that will always exist no matter how much cash you throw at it

>>11905027
>>11904970
>>11921868
>>11921863
>>11921855
>>11921157
>>11921067
>>11920735
>>11920733
>>11920226
>>11918661
>>11918459
>>11918327
>>11918311
>>11917649
INTERSTELLAR TRAVEL JUST CRACKED !!! >>11921547

>>11911058
>Spend literally 1.5 trillion on a failed airplane
This fuddlore just won't die.

>>11911116
Citation?
Even setting aside launch costs, ISS was over 50 billion USD.

>>11921871
Kill yourself

>>11920733
>this felt like a positive shift at first
The only way a 2024 landing is happening (if then) is by throwing out everything that might make Artemis more than flags and footprints redux.

NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN

DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH, RETARDS

>NASA
fucking lol, their astronauts will abandon their shitty capsules for the pure luxury Starship bar and blackjack lounge

>>11920735
worthless piece of paper desu

>>11922376
The Soviets tested a gun in space. What will the Chinese do after they have "liberated" the moon to prevent others from exploiting the resources?

The US has an adapted version of Claymore for space use, I am sure China has something equivalent.

>>11911116
I love that picture of an aircraft carrier!
We should send it to Portland!

>>11920735
There's no punishment for backing out for any of the signers of the treaty.

>>11904970
Pop Quiz Hotshot

>How many manned habitats are in orbit around the earth and the moon?
>How many satellites are in orbit around the moon?

the answer is 1 and 0

>>11924492
Don't you think, before we build base on the moon, that we should at least build permanent satellite in lunar orbit? Don't you think we should have some sort of docking station or launch platform in earth orbit?

JOHN MADDEN!
JOHN MADDEN!
JOHN MADDEN!
FOOTBALL

I know satellites exist because i own a fucking cell phone that can dial other countries halfway around the world. How do I prove man was on the moon?

Are there any landmarks I can see with a telescope? Maybe a spot where the lunar rover retired?

>>11924509
I mean is a sattelite really any less feasible than stringing a 10000 mile cable across the atlantic ocean?

Science doesn't run on faith. We do. Why do we have such a hard time proving the moon landing?

>>11924523
and i mean, if it is some fercockta scam somebody thought up in a tv studio, is that conspiracy any less fantastic than the moon landing itself? Who are they? How'd they pull it off?

>currently in election year
>planned for another election year
imagine unironically believing a word of it

>>11910571
>Every other country is so far behind there's no reason to go to space ever.
Anon sorry to break your bubble but China has already planted crops and two landers on the Moon, is planning a 3D printed robotic base for next year, a manned trip afterwards and a permanently inhabited base by 2030

>>11924509
>How do I prove man was on the moon?
This site, http://www.clavius.org, has some stuff. There's always the fact that if the moon landings were fake, then the Soviets would've known and blown the whole hoax wide open.

>>11904970
A new moonman album

>>11924529
Whose to say we didn't build a base in secret 40 years ago?

>>11924535
The only thing I don't understand is why we went up once or twice, kicked some rocks, then never went again.

I think maybe we just kept going up there and never told anybody about it, now we can't even convince our own people that it exists.

but thats just silly. how could we keep such a thing a secret?

>>11924545
>he missed the Great Solar War
ngtmi

>>11924545
that was on mars to make th e fake moon landing set

>>11924555
>The only thing I don't understand is why we went up once or twice, kicked some rocks, then never went again.
The moon landings were entirely politically motivated. The American government wanted a space achievement that was go great that the Soviets couldn't match and they got that. Once Apollo 11 happened, interest in space in the government evaporated. Apollos 12 to 17 were just due to the project's momentum, but Congress was itching to cut down NASA's budget.

>I think maybe we just kept going up there and never told anybody about it, now we can't even convince our own people that it exists.
It was expensive to send people to space and Congress wanted to spend the money elsewhere.

>but thats just silly. how could we keep such a thing a secret?
Virtually impossible unless everyone stopped monitoring the night sky.

>>11924545
i mean the average person could really give a shit about space travel.

I'm interested and I barely know anything. Up until a few days ago, I thought that

>There was only one successful trip to the moons surface, Apollo 11 (there were several)
>There was only one manned space station in existence, the ISS (there were several, including Mir, which despite hearing on the news somehow didn't quite register)
>That there were more satellites in orbit than people living in Rhode Island (Due to my experience with GPS software prior to google maps and every other damn thing)

>>11917375
You have to be legitimately retarded to think Trump or any president for that manner gives a fuck about NASA or space

>>11924571
Hey, question, why did Mir de-orbit anyway? Why wasn't it designed to be permanent?

>>11906370
I hope Biden defunds SLS and funnels that money to commercial crew and more science missions

>>11924580
How else will they get back home and report to their lizard overlords?

>>11924586

>>11924612
>According to the kabballah, the earths orbit is in retrograde with mercury..
>So should we launch?
>eh? maybe?

>>11924509
>Are there any landmarks I can see with a telescope?
I always like the tidbit of the mirror they left behind. Apollo 11, I think it was, placed a mirror so astronomers could shine a laser at the moon, measure the time it took to shine back, and from that calculate an exact distance to the moon.

Rovers and a sun-bleached flag are cool monuments too, I guess.

>>11924583
Science isn't for poor people anon.

>>11924620
but i mean can you see them? or do you need to go to an observatory? I imagine the minute adjustments would require quite a bit finnicky calibration and what not, assumming you didn't just put a tiny flag sticker on the scope.

>>11924620
I saw the big bang theory too.

>>11924629
Why don't you google it, retard?
Fed up with this schizo /x/ bullshit on this board.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_retroreflectors_on_the_Moon

>>11904970
To me, it seems hard to imagine the government or corporations keeping secrets from ANYbody, really. I mean, have you been to the post office? The DMV?

The problem with astronauts is that they are too humble, too goody two shoes. We need to reinvent the image of the astronaut, restyle him as a 'bad boy' astronaut, who wears leather jackets over his space suit and smokes Marlboros inside the capsule.

>>11924633
Huh? I think I learned it from a Neil Armstrong letter responding to some 5th grader for proof or something.

>>11924643
Later he can ride his motorcycle and harass lunar shop keeps.

I'm guessing there will be a 7-11 on the moon before there is a casino.

>>11924651
You young punk astronauts with your rock music and fast cars! Get oughta here before I call the space sheriff!

>>11924643
like when you ask him if he was ever on the moon, he looks up at it and a single tear runs down his cheek while run-around-sue plays in the distance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NQLmUOgT5M

oh, hey, has anybody watched space force? It has Steve Carell and Jhon Malkovich.

>>11904970
>Realistically, what can they hope to accomplish?

Experiments with the vacuum of the space, the reaction of the human body to low gravity for extended periods of time, immune system reactions, many other medical avenues of research, there is also the engineering development, particle physics, astronomy...

>>11904970
All I care about is being in space before I die. God speed.

>>11904970
what if the only way to ensure the fake moon landing was kept a secret was for all the participants to actually believe they were participating in a real moon landing?

>>11924524
and more importantly, why?
why do it?

>>11904970
isn't the moon constantly bombarded by meteoroids and such? how would a habitat protect itself against these sort of things?

>>11910476
DIRTY GENE
DONE DIRT CHEAP

>>11911075
Sorry to break it to you anon but Trump has done nothing to help space travel. NASA is as slow as ever, but SpaceX is making massive strides, but that has nothing to do with Trump.

>>11913794
Muiltitrillion dollar corporations hoarding wealth and exploiting tax loopholes is what's wasting money, not foreign aid.

>>11924502
>permanent satellite in lunar orbit
What does that give us really?

>>11925346
Allows communication from the Moon to Earth at all times?

China just did it.

>>11924555
>The only thing I don't understand is why we went up once or twice, kicked some rocks, then never went again.
Because of Nixon. He had a war going in Vietnam and some troubles in Watergate.

>>11925358
We can do that for the near side continuously. To reach the far side you need a halo orbit in L2, and that is a lot of work for no apparent gain.

>>11904970
No they're not. And when they don't, every IFLS retard will pretend it never happened and suck NASA's and Elon's microdicks for the next pie in the sky lie they sell.

>>11913794
You gon get reminded.

>>11926190
>caused by same
What?

>>11924686
Bury yourself in lunar regolith.

>>11924555
Anon already told you about the "politcal part", but consider also the following.
In 1979 a "computer" was kilometer of cable with special bit here and here to act as logic gate. It had less processing power than the chips inside a china RC toy. Chips and processor weren't a thing, so the only way to do anything complex up there was to have people up there.

THEN someone invented the Transistor and we cancelled Von Braun Weather-service rotating space station and his multistage supply ships.

And don't feel bad about it, because you need that level of automation if you want to mankind to rule space like God instead of like nerd with slide rule.
You could act as Houston for a dozen of simultaneous Apollo mission with the processing power of your average smartphones.

>>11925882
Just add a relay in L1 and you are good. You'll lose a few ms maybe but compared to the 4 seconds loss it won't be noticeable.

>>11926194
White people, see below
Anon should have just said caused by yourself

>>11926414
>Actually fixing the Earth's problems caused by same White People
Still does not make sense.

>>11926417
For /pol/ racist probably, unless you are one of the climate change deniers.

>>11926423
I'm not following what you just wrote.
The original image doesn't make any sense. The sentence is nonsensical.

Do they teach English were you live? I know five year olds with more coherency.

What is it trying to say!? The only way to fix the sentence is to replace 'same' with 'some,' it would fix the grammar but not the logic.

>>11926393
>In 1979 a "computer" was kilometer of cable with special bit here and here to act as logic gate. It had less processing power than the chips inside a china RC toy. Chips and processor weren't a thing, so the only way to do anything complex up there was to have people up there.
The 6502 was made in 1974 and popular in computers such as Apple 2.
>THEN someone invented the Transistor and we cancelled Von Braun Weather-service rotating space station and his multistage supply ships.
Transistors were invented in 1947.

>>11926408
L1 is between earth and the moon, why would you need a relay there when we can transmit directly to the moon?

>>11926423
There is at least one black american from /pol/ who drops into threads making dumb statements now and then. I mean it's totally asinine for somebody living the same lifestyle to blame whites. As a aside I don't understand why, if the be so mad about ancestors they never met being shipped to the land of plenty, they don't go back and fix up their homeland with the skills we taught them.

I guess it is going to be up to whites to fix everybodies problems. Nobody else is doing anything except following in our footsteps. Admittedly we should be more careful where we tread.

It really seems to me like nobody wants the worlds problems to be solved. This is why so many of us just want to leave. There is plenty of stupid white people too and I'm not sure what to do about that.

Every time I share my ideas for saving the planet the thread dies. It's really strange. So what's the alternative...

Leave all the stupid people of all colours down here to suffer the consequences of their actions while we try to escape their insanity.

Can the stupid people even be saved? Should they be?

Can we go back to talking about the moon now?

>>11926460
My bad,
Anyway the real point was that computer of the time sucked, once we had good one it is more cost efficient to have unmanned satellite with automated sensors.

>>11926460
>L1 is between earth and the moon, why would you need a relay there when we can transmit directly to the moon?
Ok I suck again but you missed the goal.
The idea was to have a relay satellite at L4 or L5 to communicate with the one at L2 and achieve a link with the other side of the moon in only 2 satellite instead of a constellation.

>>11926190
This. Don't go to space, feed low IQ idiots!

>>11926194
>>11926414
>White people
This. White people are the reason!
>White people leave
>All blacks starve to death

>>11926512
>Anyway the real point was that computer of the time sucked,
They were rather comfy, really. You turned on the switch, there was a BEEP and about a second later you could start working. And there were no backdoors and programmers had to think before loading up libraries, unlike today where a project starts by adding multi megabyte JS libraries with dependencies out of control.
>once we had good one it is more cost efficient to have unmanned satellite with automated sensors.
Unmanned probes have been a roaring success, no doubt about that. The problem is that the human body remains unrivalled for dexterity and adaptability, especially in unplanned situations. ground based telescopes are remote controlled these days but you still need local technicians to do maintenance and add or adjust new equipment, and that will be the case in space too for decades to come.

>The idea was to have a relay satellite at L4 or L5 to communicate with the one at L2 and achieve a link with the other side of the moon in only 2 satellite instead of a constellation.
That makes more sense but first we need a use case for why we need it. Stretching an optical fibre to a site on the far side might be cheaper and faster.

>>11926582
>Unmanned probes have been a roaring success, no doubt about that. The problem is that the human body remains unrivalled for dexterity and adaptability, especially in unplanned situations. ground based telescopes are remote controlled these days but you still need local technicians to do maintenance and add or adjust new equipment, and that will be the case in space too for decades to come.
This kind of memes is why we are still oldspace.
The technicians you mention are only efficient because they don't need to work while wearing a minimal spaceship and require dV to reach the automated equipment, itself built without redundancy knowing cheap access would stay a constant. Yet any maintenance work they do is simple replacement or require special tools doing the actual work.

If we didn't have to fight manned flag planting for budget we might already have a spacedock with low latency remote arms controlled from Earth assembling bigger ship in orbit for more complex missions. We would have a telescope on the Moon, drilled deeper on Mars using bigger robots, sent probes to each Jovian moons and we would still be working on getting human in space so they can control remote human-level robot from their spaceships.

>That makes more sense but first we need a use case for why we need it. Stretching an optical fibre to a site on the far side might be cheaper and faster.
Whatever the use, a satellite is more flexible and cover wider area while providing oversight, assuming we don't spend the extra buck to have basic Lunar Positioning System.

>>11916030
After eight years of NASA going nowhere while the bureaucrats twiddling their thumbs trying to figure out what the fuck the 'path' for the 'Flexible Path' plan was supposed to actually be, I was convinced NASA was going to be stuck in the doldrums until the 2030s. Instead, Trump came in and immediately laid out three straightforward goals:
1) Accelerate commercial crew to restore American manned launch capability as soon as possible
2) Re-prioritize the manned lunar exploration program with the goal of boots on the Moon by 2024
3) Create a new military branch with the goal of defending American satellites and space infrastructure

And it didn't just end up being footnotes in a government report or a blurb on a re-election website - this shit's actually getting done now: CCDev and CCP made more progress in the last three years than in the previous six, SpaceX launched in May, Boeing's launching early next year, Artemis 1 is slated for launch in under 16 months, NASA's inflation-adjusted budget is the highest it's been since 1997, and the new Space Force is coming together.

Bitch all you want about the man's personality and social media habits, but Trump's presidency has been a nothing but positive for NASA, American spaceflight, and American R&D in general.

>>11927120
He didn't do anything more than the others, he even did worse since he de-funded plenty of program in his war against science and ecology.
He just have no qualm about lying, claiming other's works and happen to have botnets working to glorify him.

He was lucky to be here just as SpaceX (who received plenty of subsidies from the previous administration) finally managed a manned mission.
Everything about the manned lunar exploration program is decade old in the making and coming to fruition thanks to the previous administrations.
As for the Military branch, this is clearly just to satisfy his ego. He want to be the guy who "created the space force".
In practice he only renamed a service that already existed before as part of the air-force (since they are the ones managing all space related project).

His entire life is built on claiming the merit for others' work and acting to look better than he really is.

>>11927279
I feel entitled as a non-USA citizen to demad Trump be re-elected merely to prevent Biden from scrapping Artemis.

>>11927279
He's done plenty - there's no end of fearmongering over his supposed "war on science and ecology" as you put it, yet the cuts have largely been to trim administrative and regulative fat on research agencies, not gutting actual research.

Frankly more publicly funded agencies and institutes could do with cutting down their administrative staff if you ask me. Just look at how bloated the administrative staff at public universities have become in recent years.

>>11927747
That's just the narrative his conspiracist fan spread, helped by botnet (they don't mind lying since they believe to be in a war)
He absolutely gut any research that threaten his friends in the industries (or his own belief in conspiracy, I don't believe him to be faking that for 5D chess).
The guy claimed to drink bleach to cure covid, making him at best a liar, at worst a degenerate and a liar.
I won't deny that some agency are certainly redundant, but I don't think you realize how much most do to protect the common citizen from unregulated business and how at risk they are from lobbyist, especially in the US.

The truth is that most wouldn't mind at all all those agencies regardless of their sizes if they weren't looking for a culprit of their problems. Thing is, the ones they should blame are usually protected by decades of soft-propaganda, marketing, legal inertia, and plain Idiocracy.

>>11927279
>fruition thanks to the previous administrations
I thought Obama cut the Mars budget to the bone. Cite?

>>11927839
>I thought Obama cut the Mars budget to the bone. Cite?
I don't know but that would have been a good things.
Manned mission on the surface of Mars have never been anything else but attempt to capture the aura of Apollo, not needed to do science, not needed to study how human live in space and far too soon for any reasonable colonization.

It's no wonder everyone think NASA do nothing, for decade they ask them the impossible with miserable budget and are forbidden to experiment because "failing" with new engines or rocket is bad PR and we can't have that.

>>11927839
Total funding under Obama was basically fixed at about $18.5B. While it's true that development on Ares/Constellation had stalled and needed a major kick in the ass, the solution was not to shelve the entire lunar program - Obama basically stalled development for eight years. NASA's science budget also remained basically fixed during Obama's Administration, but they shifted funding priorities around - astro and heliophysics went from being about half the budget in 2008 to less than 30% by 2016, while during the same period earth science went from about a quarter of the budget to over 40%

>>11927877
Answering the question "Is there life on Mars?" is the first essential step before the planet can be opened up for industrialisation and colonisation.

There are a lot of entities desperate to know the answer. Religions, science, governments...

Those rovers are working hard for sure but they are only scratching the surface (quite literally). I'm not sure that examining a surface which has been scoured and sterilised for longer than our species has existed makes much sense at all.

We need boots on Mars, and we need those boots exploring places like the caves on Mars and areas near the poles where life may actually still exist. At the least those locations are where life would have found its final refuge before petering out.

>>11904970
In situ concrete for the weapons platform foundations is a good start

>>11905034
Imagine how much money and resources could be saved by building and launching rockets from the moon.

>>11928869
Unless you can find sufficient in-situ metal deposits on the Moon to facilitate the construction of deep spacecraft and the infrastructure required you won't save any money.

>>11929052
the surface is literally fucking made of aluminum oxide

>>11929179
And all you have to do to accumulate enough materials to build a single panel is process a few hundred tons of 'topsoil'.

>>11911116
Utterly useless in an battle against a foe that isn't a mountain tribe. Those floating pieces of shit can be sunk by a single Swedish stealth submarine.

>>11904970
Can't believe noone mentioned helium 3 mining

>>11929527
Is the presence confirmed? I know it has been theorised but I cannot remember to have seen proof.

>>11905034
>Give America a solid footing in space before competing nations do
Isn't this a direct violation of the outer space treaty? Surely any offworld permanent structures are going to have to be, in part, owned (or at least be accessible) to all nations?

>>11929527
its a fuckin retarded meme though

>>11929796
You are naive. As long as it is a limited resource and it could possibly be the key (certainty not needed) to controlled fusion, it WILL be declared a strategic resource.

Do you think China and USA will allow the other to control this resource?

>>11929826
I doubt he3 will be used for fusion power. There simply is not enough of it readily available.

Now fusion propulsion systems though are an entirely different matter. Trips to Jupiter in three months? Yes please.

>>11929826
even if you do really want to use it for fusion, which is kinda doubtful since it's not the easiest to work with or the most attractive and there are much more abundant alternatives available, it's so fucking stupidly unconcentrated on the moon that it's not going to make sense except in small amounts as a byproduct of other mining there or you have self replicating mining drones turning over the whole lunar surface

>>11929790
Given the fact that most nations cant even teach the moon nobody will really care, untill people start hoarding nukes up there.

>>11929790
>outer space treaty
lmfao

>>11929838
>There simply is not enough of it readily available.
How do you know?

>>11929868
>it's not the easiest to work with
The only thing that matters is what works. If hard is the only thing that works then that is what will be used.

>>11930067
No need for nukes when you can just lob huge chunks of moonrock at the earth with the cheaper delta-v than launching a nuke at the moon from earth. No fallout either.

Everybody is going to want a part in preventing that from happening.

>>11930132
>How do you know?
there's fuckall of it on earth
on the moon you're looking at around best case 15ppb in the regolith, which means even with 100% extraction efficiency you'll have to process about 150 tons of regolith per gram and 2 billion tons a year if you wanted to meet the US energy budget with it
honestly you'd probably be better off just producing it with nuclear reactors here on earth if you really need the stuff

>The only thing that matters is what works. If hard is the only thing that works then that is what will be used.
deuterium-tritium and deuterium-deuterium are a lot easier in terms of ignition energy and where most funding is going since that makes the containment a lot easier, but making materials that can deal with the fucktons of neutrons they produce is an issue
with helium 3 you get much less neutrons which is very nice, but if you have the ability to do helium 3 fusion it's likely not much harder to do proton-boron fusion which produces even less neutrons and has all the fuel you need for cheap right here on earth

>>11930200
>here's fuckall of it on earth
Irrelevant
>on the moon you're looking at around best case 15ppb in the regolith
And that is what I asked about, how do you know?

>>11929052
>>11929179
Can't be harder to mine than on Mars.

>>11904970
>what can they hope to accomplish?
Being faster than the chinks, so they don't take all of it.

>>11904970
>what can they hope to accomplish?

an endless field of polished aluminum reflectors.

>>11910437
so, you're saying that you'll need a "decontamination area" inside the airlock?

>>11915643
>So where should the first moon base be located?

there's plenty of aluminum in the lunar regoligh, and you can easily machine aluminum into basically all structural components you would need for an expanding lunar base.

power is probably the largest concern, as is ISRU water, so the poles would be the logical starting place.

Rocket fuel for shipping up finished materials or bulk ingots can also be provided by the lunar regolith, aluminum oxides in specific, which can be chemically/thermally separated into the constituent rocket fuels (and oxidizer), as well as oxidizer and aluminum for building stuff.

solar thermal is much easier near the poles, because depending on where you are, it's either ALWAYS daytime, or the electrical transmission lines from one near polar base to the other are much shorter, and thus easier/less costly to produce on site from local materials.

>>11925346
>>permanent satellite in lunar orbit
>What does that give us really?

well, if it's a modified stanford torus, it gives the moon workers a 1 g environment to periodically re-acclimate to, in order to prevent bone and muscle degeneration, and other associated deleterious biological effects of fractional gravity

So much for the Outer Space Treaty...
>UK and US Say Russia Fired a Satellite Weapon in Space (bbc.co.uk)
https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/07/23/1921235/uk-and-us-say-russia-fired-a-satellite-weapon-in-space
>In a statement, the head of the UK's space directorate said: "We are concerned by the manner in which Russia tested one of its satellites by launching a projectile with the characteristics of a weapon." The statement said actions like this "threaten the peaceful use of space." The US has previously raised concerns about this Russian satellite. In his statement, Air Vice Marshal Harvey Smyth, head of the UK's space directorate, said: "Actions like this threaten the peaceful use of space and risk causing debris that could pose a threat to satellites and the space systems on which the world depends. We call on Russia to avoid any further such testing. We also urge Russia to continue to work constructively with the UK and other partners to encourage responsible behaviour in space."

So if the US, Russia and China were to mine the moon there would be high noon.

>>11931843
That treaty was silly after the fall of the Soviet Union. Manifest Space when?

>>11931871
>Manifest Space when?
Already, I'd say.

If Starship is gonna take people from Orion to the moon, is the Frankenstein's Experimental Archaeological Orange Dildo of Spare Shuttle Parts really necessary? Why can't that transfer happen in LEO?

>>11931663
You might as well have a rotating torus habitat on the moon as well to avoid the problem in the first place, at least for the sleeping quarters.

>>11905042
>they can mine the surface and create fuel
>t. "I watch basedfoi movies" coomer

>>11913011
Most astronauts arent very young and the ISS has cameras everywhere. I very much doubt they have been having sex. Sex without gravity requires twice the energy and force to maintain penetration.

>>11933515
>Sex without gravity requires twice the energy and force to maintain penetration.
How do you know? Please provide details.

>>11931871
>>11931892

I just hope the US doesn't become THE gatekeeper

>>11904970
>2024
Lets see if they can pull an Apollo 8 before that date.

Also
>moonbase
You mean crashing a cilinder onto the surface and calling it a "base"? Because a full fledged base would be even more difficult than a space station to maintain, and NASA has yet to build one.

>>11934673
It might just be that all Chinese moon landing efforts end in catastrophic failure, sadly. They just wanted to "liberate" the moon, you know.

>>11933651
thrusting pushes your bodies away with equal and opposite force. Studies have been done on the difficulties of sex in space, im too lazy to find the paper, but basically inorder to thrust you will end up pushing yourself away from your partner with each move. so your going to be pulling your own mass to theirs over and over again, whereas on earth some part of your body is grounded and supported

How would a lunar eclipse affect operations in a manned moon base?

Furthermore how would it function in the fully two-week-long nights without sunlight?

>>11936791
Install a set bar you both hold onto. This is an engineering problem at best. I just don't think they are trying hard enough

>>11938509
sex bar*

>>11938425
>How would a lunar eclipse affect operations in a manned moon base?

Same as normal, communication with Earth could still be easily established using relay satellites in lunar orbit.

>how would it function in the fully two-week-long nights without sunlight?

Either big af accumulators hooked up to even bigger than fuck photovoltaic panels, or nuclear reactors (iirc nasa plans to do this one), or in the future when fusion reactors are practical (let's be real - it's gonna be tokamaks) probably they will be used - after all, lunar regolith is full of [math]He_3[/math], which is a great fusion fuel

>>11915937
>>11916030

No Trump isn't bad at all he is a moderate and basically a 90s democrat but leagues ahead of Obama who de-funded space exploration and used it to bring in Islamic terrorist. The only people who screech about Trump are literal mentally ill schizos that blindly believe in communism unfortunately our US media is also controlled by these same people monopoly of jewish supremacist. Also Congress>President. pic related

>>11929790
>Imagine how much money and resources could be saved by building and launching rockets from the moon
Imagine WHAT KIND OF rockets could be launched from the moon anon!

>>11938651
Nuclear reactors on the moon spunds tight.
Nuclear waste? Just shove it in a crater.
No biosphere to harm. All humans and human-related items are generally going to be sheathed in radiation-protecting suits or concrete at all times.
Hippies still won't shut up about it? Low escape velocity bitch just shoot it off knto space. That depleted uranium is fuckin Jupiters problem now.

>>11912243
NAYRT
>The ISS taught the entire world to cooperate for science
Utter nonsense. I vehemently disagree with the other anon that the ISS was a boondoggle except for when try to shoehorn it into other projects, but modern international research cooperation predates the ISS by decades.
>an no we don't have the tech for a colony,
We'll never create that tech if we never properly fund the projects for building it.
>we'll need to study that on the Moon.
This is also just bullshit. Unless you're building full shipyards there, then there's nothing on the Moon that accelerates humanity on Mars. The geochemistry, ISRs, power systems, atmosphere, thermal environment, etc are all different on the Moon. There's basically nothing for Mars that we can test there that we can't test here or in orbit. Thats part of what the ISS is for.

>>11938674
>Trump isn't bad at all he is a moderate
Wow, really changing your tune because you know he's fucked in November. It's amazing how dissonant his followers are.

>>11913794
We will drag you all kicking and screaming to the stars.

>>11939051
Not that guy but I voted for him because I hated Hillary more than I like Trump. Now the DNC put Biden forward... I hope there's a a civil war soon. The politicians in this country need to be lynched by the working man.

>>11917649
Amazing how science freaks apply illogical hopes and dreams to society

>>11938674
Imagine hating Africans so much that you just can't resist mocking them and bringing them up in shit unrelated to them like internal American politics. You are scum and fucked up in the head with hate. People like you are the reason you Americans aren't seen as leaders anymore. Just completely caught up in divise extremist politics that are destroying your country.

As for Obama defunding NASA that has already been debunked ITT. The Islamic terrorist thing is ridiculous considering the CIA actually funded Bin Laden under Republican administrations. (Reagan and Bush Sr.)... everyone knows this. What terrorists did Obama fund?

>>11938974
Not exactly in the crater, but even better - why, you ask?
You can literally just bury the waste underground
The regolith will act as a free radiation shielding
No fucks given

>>11904970
>Realistically, what can they hope to accomplish?

Mapping the moon carefully. We need to find the best large deep tunnels for colonization.

>>11938509
Or just a conjoined velcro suit so they dont fly away from eachother. The problem is easily solved, what I meant with >>11933651 is that No one has tried to solve these problems, and so we can take NASA at their word when they say that no one has had sex in space.

>>11938509

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r44yNs-iuUs

>>11939040
>research
Key word here.
Even with research someone have to pay to generate that "free" scientific knowledge. Even science can't escape political problem and a few ancap here are impatient to venerate the future God-CEO of Mars while the nazi among us here hope it stay restricted to their nation alone.

>We'll never create that tech if we never properly fund the projects for building it.
You won't find me disagreeing with that statement but we may not agree on what projects is more cost&time-efficient to build it.

>Unless you're building full shipyards there
To share info without insult, I do consider that a space-shipyard and Moon industrial-level refuel IRSU is prerequisite before any REAL colonization.

>There's basically nothing for Mars that we can test there
That's my turn to be vehement, there's nothing on Mars that we can't test on the Moon and we will learn far more on the Moon even if it was harder to reach.

Unlike the old Far-west, the infrastructure to go from resource>refine>tools cannot be a replica with handy equivalent. Mars is nowhere as similar as Earth, you'll be using habitat shipped from Earth until you can build in-situ all the machines that make the multi-layered alloy panel or the molecular coating protecting&isolating you from the −150 °C/-60°C radioactive dry ice.
...same if you intend to live underground first, you'll still eventually need to repair your trusty space-suit so you can CHAD with a pickaxe in front of a virgin remote-user.
If we removed human from the equation with robots, we'd still want to study the infrastructure which will be faster on the Moon. The "biochemistry" of Mars is already known, what we don't know is how to design equipments in place where evolution-driven organic-robot and their primal sense aren't cost efficient.

The way I see it, if you can't make a space-industry that protect Earth while gearing up for accelerated colonization of the entire solar system, you aren't colonizing.

>>11927812
Study some English and come back here in a year or two buddy.

>>11941171
>there's nothing on Mars that we can't test on the Moon
Except power systems because the both available power sources and requirements are very different, ISRU because the available resources are very different, life support systems because temperature, available gasses and available water are very different etc etc. You know the things that are the most important, the thing that are most involved in designing a reliable practical system for, and the things that are holding us up the most because we've made the least progress on them.
You're saying that we first have to design, build, test and human rate an entire system of infrastructure for the Moon, when we'll have to throw out 90% of it and start again with the version for Mars.
>−150 °C/-60°C radioactive dry ice.
Dry ice isn't radioactive, neither mars nor the moon is radioactive. They're being irradiated. And their temperature conditions being comparable is a joke, Literal days at 130C and -170C in a ultra-high vacuum and hours at -80 and 0 in a medium vacuum are not the same thing. Even engineers know this shit.

>>11904970
>NASA is making a permanent moonbase in 202

just like they will send a human to mars in 2020

>>11922955
>The US has an adapted version of Claymore for space use
Cite source.
>inb4 Project Horizon
Not in there.

>>11924582
It was designed to last 5 years. It lasted 15. By the end they were having failures routinely. Funding was diverted to the ISS instead.

>>11941412
Nobody want to do experiments which risk human lives who are six months away from help from earth. We are expecting things to go wrong. Things we are not expecting and have not prepared for.

The negative publicity which would result from losing the first humans to land on mars would result in a loss of public will. Imagine all the religious types marching on the streets with banners that read "God hates astronauts".

Our first steps beyond earth orbit must result in successful, positive outcomes or every naysayer will leap at the opportunity to have those funds redirected into their own pet projects. Boring ones, here on earth.

>>11941664
A second point is that the moon is intended as a quarantine location to prevent contaminants reaching earth. Not necessarily for the astronauts themselves but definately for their equipment and any samples they return. Keep in mind this is a precursor to our manned exploration of other orbital bodies. We need to perfect our regulations and procedures from the first step.

>>11941680
Why use the moon for that when you could use the spacecraft astronauts arrive in, that take months to arrive from Mars?

>>11908826
Shooped it for you. The stars in the area where the logo used to be will not match the original image, if that bothers you. But best I can do.

>>11912264

>>11915991
>you jest but its inevitable

If people are going to live somewhere, they are going to have the things that people like to have. Not sure this is surprising or bad or anything.

>>11927120
Remember when Bush announced Constellation and his Mars plans? There is simply no political or public support for Mars missions. What will another visit for the moon do without meaningful goals?

>>11918327
>I'd imagine they'd be thoroughly vetted for any potential psychological issues.

You'd think, but NASA has long resisted dong much psych screening on astronauts.

>>11918311
>They used test pilots before. Front line experiences can drag in ugly things such as PTSD.

False dichotomy, there. Most (all?) test pilots that made astronaut in the "Golden Age" had lots of combat experience. They did not use test pilots instead of combat veterans, they used guys who were both.

>>11919618
Maybe learn to be good at it.

>>11928869
That's not happening anytime soon. Do you think the heavy equipment needed for processing rock into metal and spaceship building infrastructure can just appear out of thin air and get itself to the moon?

>>11924492
>>How many satellites are in orbit around the moon?
>0

Isn't Chandrayaan-2 still operational?

>>11924545
>Whose to say we didn't build a base in secret 40 years ago?

It would be hard to keep anybody from noticing the spacecraft going back and forth all the time.

The world is well supplied with amateur and professional astronomers, sweeping the skies with telescopes for fun or hoping to discover a new comet/asteroid/etc.

Pic related, image taken of Apollo 8 TLI by David Le Conte et al.

>>11924555
It was sold as a "race" against the Soviets for national prestige, this justified the serous price tag. It is not unusual to stop running when a race is over, especially when it is expensive to keep running and you have some other things you might need to spend some money on.

>>11924509
>Are there any landmarks I can see with a telescope?

No. No object left by Apollo on the moon is large enough to be resolved by the most powerful telescopes on Earth. So you cannot look with a telescope and prove they are there, or that they are not there.

FWIW, here's my favorite non-NASA corroboration. Pic related shows an image taken during APollo 15, with the lunar rover at left, and an image from the Japanese radar-mapping probe, Kaguya.

The resolution of the radar map will not show the foreground surface detail visible in the photograph, but the terrain matches perfectly, and could not have been known in the Apollo era other than by landing and taking a picture.

>>11943208
Here's another one, with Kaguya imagery and a photo from Apollo 17.

>>11913011
i heard someone said it would be very impractical because of the microgravity

>>11943041
Because it is easier to send a larger team with more specialised professions made up of less expendable personnel to the moon.

The honest truth is that astronauts are there to collect samples, not test them. You can also send a smaller team to mars, saving on mass.

>>11924509
isn't most data transmitted through cables

>>11924523
science absolutely runs on faith, it's 99% irrational at best, just like any other human endeavor

>>11943446
A journey from Mars will take 9 months. How long does the quarantine last?
Also, were the crew infected with alien stuff I cannot see they would be allowed back on earth, ever. What can they even do if they were infected?
Already people object to sample return missions from the Martian moons for this reason.

>>11943208
>>11943214

Nice.

>>11941412
You didn't get it. You confuse extracting ore/gasses with actually using it,
That's why you missed the reason I brought up dry ice, radioactivity or temperature. Read it again, it was NOT a comparison it was a reminder of how complex even the basic are. You won't be expanding your habitable area with IRSU before you have complete industry chain.

Power source is the one aspect we will have the least trouble with, it's self-contained the input is simple and the fundamental won't change. External factor like pressure, temperature or dust, can be tested on Earth before risking human life. You will not discovers some kind of "Mars petrol" and work out the trick to refine and burn it using starship scavenged part.
The point of life-support/hydroponic system is to consume as little external ingredient as possible, the best place to test it would be in orbit to fix the errors when you are a shuttle away. The ideal would be a closed life-support.

Locating and extracting Mars resources will be the least complex part, it is a matter of probes, money and basic chemistry.
The hardest part is to learn how to build an efficient infrastructure, live there and repair every single part of it without a Earth-like atmosphere, air/water for washing, or spare part delivered in 24 hours.
This part is the 90% we don't know, Mars will just make it harder and slower to learn the same.

The Moon with a vacuum, 0.16G and conditions that stay constant for days before switching is likely the best and most rewarding place to learn.
But his is not just what you'll learn, everything you'll build for the Moon (like space dock) are also PREREQUISITE for any proper colonization of basically anywhere else, Phobos/Deimos or Mars.

>we'll have to throw out 90% of it and start again with the version for Mars.
You couldn't even get right what those systems are.

>Even engineers know this shit.
...making them far above you, because THEY think about the practical aspect.

>>11943600
I would be more concerned about their samples, suits and equipment. However... let us imagine a situation in which astronauts have spent nine months gradually growing more ill. Maybe they die on the way home. Do we want their craft landing on earth, or at a suitably equipped facility on the lunar surface?

>>11943130
Still going to be faster than trying to build that infrastructure on Mars.

>>11943643
>Do we want their craft landing on earth, or at a suitably equipped facility on the lunar surface?
If they are dead I would like the spacecraft directed into the sun with no detours to the moon.

>>11943926
Noooo.
We mussst learrrrn.

>>11943161

>The world is well supplied with amateur and professional astronomers, sweeping the skies with telescopes for fun or hoping to discover a new comet/asteroid/etc.


Cucking these investigators is probably one of the reasons the US military was so supportive of Starlink

>>11931397

Hopefully the chinks aren't too slow either, lest you mutts take all of it

>>11943208
>A corroboration. Pic related shows an image taken during APollo 15, with the lunar rover at left, and an image from the Japanese radar-mapping probe, Kaguya.
>The resolution of the radar map will not show the foreground surface detail visible in the photograph, but the terrain matches perfectly, and could not have been known in the Apollo era other than by landing and taking a picture.


IIRC the Pope witnessed the Apollo 11 landing from his own personal mechanical telescope?

NASA SHOW PICTURE THEREFORE IT REAL

>>11945873
And the search of *intelligent* life continues.

>"Outer Space Treaty" dictated that all nations in compliance with international regulation are permitted to exploit space.[8] As a result, the commercial use of space is open to exploitation by public and private entities, especially in relation to mining and space tourism.
So which sub-human country will break the law first?

>>11939548
Just because he mocks africans for being primitive and low IQ, doesn't means he hates them, quit being such a sensitive soiboi. The rest of your post is just retarded and doesn't belong on this board.

>>11924402
every single other country on the planet will deliver punishment.
Dumb burgers think they can own everything.

>>11946147
Russia and China has repeatedly violated agreements they signed, recently such as the massive radioactive leak in Russia. Not much problem for them, it seems.

>>11946186
There are more countries in the world than Russia , China and America.
Besides US loves to play the world police and being the GOOD GUY so it's only normal they are expected to behave better.

>>11906897
you can use a rotating bowl shaped disc, and fill it with mercury, the centripetal force will produce a near perfect mirror, and low gravity means you can make the mmassive

>>11938651
would nuclear reactors operate on moon gravity? Dont they rely on steam and turbines? Wont the water cycling back to the bottom get there slower?

>>11946547
The water is propelled out by the pressure difference created as the water is heated and try to get out. That's why using turbine to GRAB that kinetic energy allow to produce energy. More energy than if it was just water falling due to gravity (that one is how Dam work)
We already pump colder water inside to replenish it, those pump are very powerful because the water evaporate faster. So again we wouldn't need gravity.

If there's a something that would be tricky in space it's this pic, but even that may be unlikely, a reactor in space would use a closed cycle with the quantity of fluid inside the system staying a constant, so once you got rid of all impurity it's homogeneous.

>>11946547
Lunar gravity is 1/6 g, not zero. The only issue is the liquid after the condenser, assuming you use a steam turbine. And with a diffuser that should not be a problem.

As an alternative you could use the thermoelectric effect. it is simpler with no moving part though less efficient.

>bowl shaped disk

>>11909880
>That would reduce the baseline needlessly and complicate transmission of the reception a lot.
Just run fiber optic across the surface down too Shackleton for line of sight. Or a laser commsat in a halo orbit above the telescope running at a different frequency. It also depends on whether the telescope is optical or radio.

>>11943926
Requires too much delta v so no

>>11915040
>None of that dust is going to give you COVID, it's just very annoying.
No, instead you get silicosis and cancer from it.

>>11947290
Even if you slingshot a spacecraft inbound from mars via moon and earth?

>>11947290
not really

>>11939548
I forgot there are unironic NPR tier liberals on this board