/sci/ - Science & Math

git a whip crack't at u or bust, piss off.
pascal/sidis.. died young

>>11893417
Are you implying Pascal would have been killed? No, the actual disabled and "useless eaters" would. Face it. /sci/ can not come up with any arguments against eugenics. It is what is best for society.

>>11893422
i dont have an argument but i got a hangover..
ive been thinking about this lately tho and will debate if i can formulate something here
the grand idea i have is that playing god is like getting a tattoo
might seem like a cool idea at the time, until you realize how stupid it is later.
playing god is preventing people like pascal from naturally breaking the matrix & fulfilling a life of intelligence.
consider the properties of a plant; growing one from a clone is fast & predictable but it prevents truly rad plants from breaking this matrix as well.
human lives are worth more and are far more fulfilling given this chance to be rad

>>11893422
also having a whip crack't at you from the very beginning and obeying every order is not that intelligent imo.. its a march into knowledge.
staying off on the sidelines and trying to assimilate some world matter is helpful in a way that almost no one would understand

>General impressions are never to be trusted. Unfortunately when they are of long standing they become fixed rules of life and assume a prescriptive right not to be questioned. Consequently those who are not accustomed to original inquiry entertain a hatred and horror of statistics. They cannot endure the idea of submitting sacred impressions to cold-blooded verification. But it is the triumph of scientific men to rise superior to such superstitions, to desire tests by which the value of beliefs may be ascertained, and to feel sufficiently masters of themselves to discard contemptuously whatever may be found untrue.
-Francis Galton

>>11893422
>the jewish deep state pedophiles control the entire world with no objective other than to destroy the white race
And also
>hey guys eugenics is a great idea! Let's give the government the power to forcibly sterilize whoever they want if it's "best for society"

The best vehicle for eugenics is probably some sort of religion?

Not practicing Eugenics, especially in a welfare state, is immoral.
Allowing retards and other undesirables to exist you are enabling these impurities to advance and multiply until the entire system collapses and everyone is off worse.
In a pool of shared wealth, such as a society, resources are supposed to go towards individuals that are healthy in body and mind.
Only because you have some twisted affection to your undercooked offspring or any other degenerate you have developed an affection to, does not mean that any fellow citizen at all has even the slightest obligation to provide for it.
I have been in asylums and care homes for the (sometimes severely) mentally impaired people.
These individuals smear themselves and their surroundings with their own feces, bang their head against the wall, are violent towards everyone due to their intellectual disability and incapable of any work at all, require constant medical care and swallow up ungodly amounts of public funds.
There is no reason to keep them alive. They are a net loss. They live in constant suffering due to the nature of their abnormalities, which they are often not even aware off, but those around them are. If they do posess the mental capacity to realize what situation they are in, they are drugged for it inevitably leads to severe depression and other mental illnesses.
In this situation the decision wether or not to end their existance is clear. Yet, they are legally allowed to procreate and it has happened. Their parents are blinded by their instincts and would not agree with euthanasia. In this case the authority to decide over such matters has be somewhere else.
And don't think that it is something of the distant past.
The mentally ill have been sterilized here in Germany and other Western countries up until the end of the 1980s. It is still happening in other places of the world, although behind closed doors. And this is the right thing to do.

>>11893451
So many would be dead if the philosopher king willed it. I seriously douby the philosopher king would view a bunch of obese morons as anything except waste to be shredded or for simple beaners to continue living and eating up the resources of the powerful. You don't want to die? Should have been born wise and powerful like the philosopher king.

>>11893470
You don't want to be sterilized or liquidated then don't be a fatass norwood 7 sack of lard that your own wife hates. It's that fucking simple.

>>11893479
No, the state. Unless you mean mandated religion.

>>11893644
something regulated and consensual at a large scale.

>>11893662
Could either be state or a religious institution then.

>>11893394
>>11893422

>This was the reason why Asclepius and his sons practised no such art. They were acting in the interest of the public, and did not wish to preserve useless lives, or raise up a puny offspring to wretched sires. Honest diseases they honestly Jowett1892: 408cured; and if a man was wounded, they applied the proper remedies, and then let him eat and drink what he liked. But [xlvi] they declined to treat intemperate and worthless subjects, even though they might have made large fortunes out of them. As to the story of Pindar, that Asclepius was slain by a thunderbolt for restoring a rich man to life, that is a lie—following our old rule we must say either that he did not take bribes, or that he was not the son of a god.

>Not treating degenerates from diseases they wrought upon themselves through their non-virtuous lifestyle
>their own problems
>not helping them
>this is eugenics?

How is that eugenics?

>>11894074
It's saying you should leave the weak to die. Culling the herd.

>>11894074
Also keep in mind he's not talking about people who were wounded in battle or that sort of thing.

>>11894326
>>11894323
I understand this, what I'm asking is "how is that eugenics?" as OP is implying.

>>11894548
You know eugenics isn't just killing but also leaving the weak and disabled to die? It culls the herd of the worthless and sick.

>>11894548
> The truth is that this modern system of nursing diseases was introduced by Herodicus the trainer; who, being of a sickly constitution, by a compound of training and medicine tortured first himself and then a good many other people, and lived a great deal longer than he had any right.

The disabled literally torture other people by just living and existing.

>>11894548
I will assume nobody here reads philosphy so i will try to give context
Plato, in his work “The Republic”, outlines a perfect hypothetical state that creates the most powerful collective while ignoring the animalistic desires of individuals. If you were to place him on the political compass he would be auth-center, slightly to the left. He designs many different systems to create the best functioning state possible, with a heavy emphasis on controlling the life of every person as if they were a drone, through molding their thoughts with brainwashing. One of his many suggestions, to improve the drone-swarm, is to not waste resources on physical unwellness that arises from deviating from his program. What he suggests is not eugenics because it doesnt not aim to improve the genetic stock of the people, its simply not wasting resources on people who dont get with the program. His line of thinking is: “If the citizen in question is obedient and behaves how we want them to, they wont develop these kinds of illnesses, and anybody who does is clearly a delinquent”. Earlier, he describes education that he proclaims to prevent illnesses of the soul and balanced gymnastic that prevents illneses of the body. Plato never argues in favor of eugenics as we understand it today.
Eugenics will be made irrelevant by GE anyway, no point starting now.

>>11894585
>>11894323
Eugenics is intrinsically linked to evolutionary pressure. So treating the sick, which are 95% boomers has nothing to do with eugenics since they cant breed anymore anyway. Meaning you dont actually remove their genes from the pool, since they already had kids and its irrelevent from eugenics standpoint if they live to 60 or 90.
Easiest form of actual eugenics to implement would be prenatal screenings and mandatory abortions imo

>>11894623
>auth-center, slightly to the left
isn't that the position of the fascists?

>>11894623
>Eugenics will be made irrelevant by GE anyway, no point starting now.
Genetic engineering is a meme, you need eugenic selection and genome screening together.

>>11894643
Yes, but the political compass is a drastic oversimplification. Plato and facists would no doubt have common ground, but would tear each other apart in other categories. The main disconnect comes from the fact the Plato was a pure idealist while facists were restricted to what can be implemented in the real world.

>>11894623
>. If you were to place him on the political compass he would be auth-center, slightly to the left.

Modern political compass is millenia after Plato. He was against private property but for eugenics and a clean people. He is his own thing.

>>11894627
His argument can be used for the disabled and dysgenic though which is the point. Your point is an akshyually tier distinction.

>>11893394
High iq OP, very low iq discourse. OP I hope you're well versed enough in evolutionary genetics and behavioral genetics to be more capable of combating the idiotic arguments being put forth in this thread
>>11894074
mega brainlet

>>11895094
Also a city state is loads different than a large nation population and implementation wise.

>>11894649
>Eugenics isn't the biggest meme
Bruh, it doesn't work in humans. Give it up. Our generational timing, among a myriad of other problems, makes it impossible to influence genotypical variance in a useful time frame. If everyone lived <30 years and had a galaxy brain capable of computing an interactome it might work within a few centuries. Might.

>The sick and disabled need euthanasia

Oh ok so some brilliantly gifted child dying from cancer should be killed in order to reduce his burden on the beaners and normie retards.

The gifted children with cancer should be killed to reduce their burden upon retarded normie trash asses.

The target for eugenics is IQ not illness.

Some of the most productive people in human history were extremely disabled and sickly mostly philosophers they were all sick as hell.

>>11895845
The worst part is the old man with cancer is worth more than the idiotic nurses treating his illness.

There is nothing wrong with being sick and burdensome unless society is weak and incompetent to care for the ill.

Euthanizing the disabled is a symptom of a weak and ignorant society incapable of caring for its diseased citizens.

Btw Jews have begun screening themselves for genetic disorders and then they abort fetuses which carry diseases

>>11893528
I guess some people are naturally submissive and trusting of authority, regardless of just how clearly history proves why this is a bad idea.

>>11895856
>Euthanizing the disabled is a symptom of a weak and ignorant society incapable of caring for its diseased citizens.
But they shouldn't contribute to the next generations

>>11895884
If the philosopher king sentences you to death there is a good reason for it. Hell, I'd watch my own family die too if I were in power. You better believe it. I'd kill and flay both my parents. Nothing much lost.

>>11895357
True. Plato said the cities too would together work as one as all Greece against the "barbaroi."

>>11894585
>You know eugenics isn't just killing but also leaving the weak and disabled to die?
Letting nature run its course is eugenics now? So we have to interfere for it not to be eugenics? I don't get it. In my opinion "no action" is not eugenics.

>>11894589
>The disabled literally torture other people by just living and existing.
>posts a quote of the disabled torturing themselves

>>11894623
>What he suggests is not eugenics because it doesnt not aim to improve the genetic stock of the people, its simply not wasting resources on people who dont get with the program. His line of thinking is: “If the citizen in question is obedient and behaves how we want them to, they wont develop these kinds of illnesses, and anybody who does is clearly a delinquent”

Thanks for elaborating more

>>11895941
Of someone for example a Jew suffers from gaucherie disease they could give birth to healthy children if the fetuses are screened for the alleles

Only homozygous recessives are diseased.

>>11896066
trannies have a high suicide rate because they're mentally ill...

>>11896176
>Suicide due to self inflicted eugenics

reap what you sow.

>>11896176
Yeah, gender dysphorics would be rouneded up in a good state.

>>11893394
based

>>11894649
>Genetic engineering is a meme, you need eugenic selection and genome screening together.

Sure, but eugenic selection will be done by fertilizing a hundred embryos, sequencing them, and running a machine learning algorithm to select the best ones for implantation.

No need to actually sterilize people.

The best form of eugenics would be voluntary. A formal diagnosis of genetic strength and weakness but no mandate. You could even screen for potential good genetic admixture and screen embryos, but I would merely limit the practice to identifying official family trees and showing where strength and weakness lies in any potential mate.

Madness, infertility, feableness, bad teeth, and eyesight are low hanging fruit on the eugenics tree. We can all agree the world would be better if we sought to breed those out, right?

The issue with eugenics though, is that in good conditions only the eugenicist will filter himself from the gene pool while the dysgenic ignore it completely. Only during times of severe deprivation does the eugenicist have any chance to outcompete the dysgenic horde

>>11897581
What the fuck is the point if it's voluntary? Does it even matter if a low IQ spic idiot voluntarily agrees or not?

>>11896066
>its simply not wasting resources on people who dont get with the program.

False. It's aiming for getting rid of the disabled and sick. Those kinds, not just political prisoners or anything like that. Learn to read.

>>11895845
You should think in more practical terms, its easier and more pc to introduce eugenics for illness prevention, then when people get used to it use it for high iq selection as well

>>11898527
>It's aiming for getting rid of the disabled and sick
>by virtue of letting ailments they wrought upon themselves through their lifestyle kill themselves.
If there were an actual benefit to genetically selecting yourself because you're going to die then I guess I would classify it as "self eugenics", but I'll be blunt and call it for what it really is; suicide.
No action is not eugenics, if it was then it would be illegal not to have a "black lives matter" sign in your front yard.

>Learn to read.
Learn to comprehend an explanation and pay attention to the details.

>>11897713
Voluntary vehicles for eugenics have existed for millenia, they're called religions.

>>11900681
Moral codes of conduct,
strict behavioural norm that if you disobey you are shunned,
raising children well seen as a great virtue
all wrapped up in a a handy package.
christianity is one of the major reasons the european average IQ rose so far from the medieval period.
look at the mormons, they're one of the few groups identified as having an increasing IQ and a high birth rate.

>>11893470
>no objective other than to
Come on, buddy. The objective is becoming the dominant group. It's not like they're exclusively anti-white. Look at the Middle East. They're against everyone who has any power structures outside of their control. It's super basic.

>>11898649
a genius with one allele predisposing a serious disability such as gauchers is not the enemy here.

most of the greatest philosophers of human history had severe mental and physical illnesses, nonetheless they were all geniuses.

the object of eugenics is to increase intelligence not target the disabled.

>>11898649
targeting the disabled will not increase IQ you need to target blue collar workers.

the diasbled such as autistics are harmless they do not reproduce and are often gifted in STEM.

the enemy is the blue collar workers and low SES population they breed like rabbits and have defective intelligence far worse than autistics or mentally ill.

autistics and mentally ill only have a few diseased alleles blue collar workers are defective in their entirety.

>>11901190
You need to focus on the upper middle professional class and persuade them to have big families.

>>11901214
yes people of lower intelligence should not receive welfare and be encouraged to reproduce.

people of high education and high intelligence should be encouraged to reproduce and it should be funded by the government.

maybe people with aPHD should be payed 100k for every child they produce because each of their children is a gift to society.

disabilities such as autism or schizophrenia are often not even heritable... and are common in very wealth highly educated families, these people usually do not reproduce whatsoever, but I have seen autistics usually jews who get degrees in engineering and psychology.

>>11901214
Engineers, doctors and professors should be payed like 200k per child as compensation for their contributions to society

According to Gregory Clark and woodley historically the top 50% by wealth had 40% more children survive to reproduce than the lower 50%.
Historical child mortality rate was 40-50% now it's around 1%

>>11901234
>autism and schizophrenia
both of these are heritable to some degree.

>>11901315
if the alleles are known then embryos could be screened at birth...

then the children would all be free of the illness

however autistics and mentally ill usually never have children.

>>11901371
schizos can be useful for artistry and autistics at least the high function ones are your engineers

>>11901376
usually wealthy highly educated families will have an autistic son who goes on to get a degree in engineering or psychology and become fully functional.

blue colar families are less intelligent than autistics from educated families

>>11902064
We should be selecting for healthy performance.

How about a system of voluntary eugenics? We pay people $5k to self-sterilize at the age of 19 onward. Only retards would take that deal, and they would ABSOLUTELY take that deal. Controls for stupidity and/or poor impulse control and mental illness.

We really need a mechanism to counter the current, objectively dysgenic state of welfare nations cause there is currently nowhere to go but down. You feelerfags need to take a seat for once or else shit is going to get REALLY chaotic and violent.

edgy sixteen year old kid tier thread. Go kill your grandma shes old and has diseases, she doesnt deserve to live.

>>11903882
She's passed reproductive age so she is irrelevant to this discussion.

>>11894649
>Genetic engineering is a meme
The first genetically engineered humans were already born though and its is very likely that their intelligence was enhanced as well. Eugenics is for 20th century people, human augmentation is where the future of humanity lies.

>>11904696
too much risk of introducing damage.

>>11904700
It's actually safer than normal procreation -
https://www.futuretimeline.net/blog/2019/04/28.htm
https://www.futuretimeline.net/blog/2017/10/29.htm