/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11712069
Incedibly complex is not always a good thing. If a less complex design can do the same while avoiding the problems our brains have now then it is better. That won't happen anytime soon though if at all.

The human body is needlessly complex. A machine could probably have a similar consciousness to a human taking up only maybe a few gigs at most, allowing plenty of memories to be stored. Unlike human memory, flash memory does not degrade so long as it has a source of power, and even then, it takes tens of thousands of years to degrade said memory. The only advantage organics have is regeneration, and even then, only a few animals fully utilize it.

>>11712090
>>11712069
Computer do some things better, brain do some things better

Grug smash together and become like sun-god

>>11712069
No matter what silicon can do better mental math then us.

>>11712069
It's not necessarily restricted to mechanical and digital augmentation but biological as well

>>11712069
transhumanism is a huge meme. a bunch of pseuds pushing sci-fi crap really hard to lure dumb anons into their pyramid scheme. Roko’s Basilisk is basically the “gibs money” scheme pushed to its most advanced possible form

in the end, it’s all basically the perennial “death bad” struggle. that’s ok. but on this board it mixes in the “no like women, replace wombs with test tubes” crap and that is just cancerous

>>11712476
Yeah, I fully admit that I hold out hope that they will have the technology by like 2075 to keep extending my life until they can make me young again for the same reasons religious people want to think there is a heaven. I also want to have my intelligence and human understanding elevated as much as possible for the same reason they want to meet and feel blessed by god.

I think my thing has a somewhat better chance of working but at the end of the day most people just want to know why we are here and don’t want to leave.

they are manbabies who played deus ex

>>11712069
Death is unnecessary.

>>11712069
>But man-machine hybrids will retain a biological component derived from human beings only as long as the human-derived biological component remains useful. When purely artificial components become available that provide a better cost-versus-benefit balance than human-derived biological components do, the latter will be discarded and the man-machine hybrids will lose their human aspect to become wholly artificial. Even if the human-derived biological components are retained they will be purged, step by step, of the human qualities that detract from their usefulness. The self-prop systems to which the man-machine hybrids belong will have no need for such human weaknesses as love, compassion, ethical feelings, esthetic appreciation, or desire for freedom. Human emotions in general will get in the way of the self-prop systems' utilization of the man-machine hybrids, so if the latter are to remain competitive they will have to be altered to remove their human emotions and replace these with other motivating forces. In short, even in the unlikely event that some biological remnants of the human race are preserved in the form of man-machine hybrids, these will be transformed into something totally alien to human beings as we know them today.

>The same applies to the hypothesized survival of human minds in "uploaded" form inside machines. The uploaded minds will not be tolerated indefinitely unless they remain useful (that is, more useful than any substitutes not derived from human beings), and in order to remain useful they will have to be transformed until they no longer have anything in common with the human minds that exist today.

>>11712598
What about creative endeavors, who will be the innovators? Why not get pure robots to do the labor and hard maths?

>>11712476
If Roko's Basilisk was all about "gibs money", discussing it on LessWrong wouldn't have been banned for over 5 years.

>>11712608
>It's important to understand that in order to make people superfluous, machines will not have to surpass them in general intelligence but only in certain specialized kinds of intelligence. For example, the machines will not have to create or understand art, music, or literature, they will not need the ability to carry on an intelligent, non-technical conversation (the "Turing test"), they will not have to exercise tact or understand human nature, because these skills will have no application if humans are to be eliminated anyway. To make humans superfluous, the machines will only need to outperform them in making the technical decisions that have to be made for the purpose of promoting the short-term survival and propagation of the dominant self-prop systems. So, even without going as far as the techies themselves do in assuming intelligence on the part of future machines, we still have to conclude that humans will become obsolete. Immortality in the form (i)-the indefinite preservation of the human body as it exits today-is highly improbable.

>>11712624
If it allows the person to have a greater perception and experience than the current human body does I don't see why not

>>11712090
>flash memory does not degrade so long as it has a source of power, and even then, it takes tens of thousands of years to degrade said memory.
Flash memory has not been around for tens of thousands of years, so you can't possibly know that.
Its like when people said to buy new LED lightbulbs because they should last 100s of years, but half the LED lightbulbs you buy die within two years.

>>11712598
>man-machine hybrids belong will have no need for such human weaknesses as love, compassion, ethical feelings, esthetic appreciation, or desire for freedom. Human emotions in general will get in the way of the self-prop systems
> if the latter are to remain competitive they will have to be altered to remove their human emotion
Isn't being competitive and feeling victory a useless human emotion by the previous standards? If they don't need physical or emotional sustenance, what would drive them to compete or even act at all? Why strip them of all their good emotions like empathy, but none of the bad emotions like warmongering?

>>11712624
>the machines will only need to outperform them in making the technical decisions that have to be made for the purpose of promoting the short-term survival and propagation of the dominant self-prop systems
Again survival, desire for reproduction, and domination are human emotions that digital machines wouldn't need since they could just simulate everything internally and don't require any external sensors to interact with most aspects of reality.

>>11712069
>access to its higher faculities gives literal magic powers
What does this mean?

>>11712618
>pic
If I'm simulated, how can I create the AI anyway? I'm not even real.

>>11713020
The best AI is made by AI.

>>11712476
>“no like women, replace wombs with test tubes” crap and that is just cancerous
More cancerous than people sending eggs to India or Ukraine and collecting their baby from a poor surrogate 9 months later?

>>11713006
Read anything about Buddhist monks. Could also be referring to lucid dreaming.

Can natural hardware achieve immortality? I doubt it.

>>11713263
Immortality is a meme and isn't desirable to begin with if you aren't a soiboy super proud that he gets to wageslave for Dr. Shekelstein for a bit longer, which is basically what Transhumanism and modern medicine in general boils down to. You'd have to be fairly naive to believe the push for Transhumanism is out of complete altruism. I'd rather die at this very moment than live into the hellish future that's in store for us.

>>11713287

Then kill yourself and dont spout bullshit on /sci/.

>>11713295
No, because I still have the agency to do what I want, like pester numales on this Nepalese bookbinding forum. Unlike you 20 years from now, when your abomination-against-nature of a cyborg body will be hard-coded against actions that sacrifice maximum productivity at the omnifactory.

>>11713306

>m-muh old buildings

Have fun rotting in dirt while we conquer the stars.

>>11713313
>wow, just like my scifi movies!

>>11712069
Please factorize 4611686138686472687 without using a computer.
Maybe try using one of your brain hacks, idk.

>>11713391
Please inform me where there is literally any circumstance where a calculation like that is required, beyond some mathematical party trick?

>>11712618
Watching Yudkowsky try to grapple with basic philosophy was amusing.

>>11713420
Cryptography

>>11713468
So basically you'd only need to do a calculation like that when on a computer, communicating with another computer? Then use a computer to calculate it. In 99% of cases you would never need to do such a thing. That 1% that does require it is basically .5% trying to solve a problem the other .5% imposed in the first place, like encrypting digital data or telecommunications.

>>11713512
Cryptography is older then digital computers.

>>11713561
Not any type that requires factorization of 18 digit numbers, you pedantic faggot.

>>11713576
Well yes, but computers exist now.
What is your actual suggestion?
Only use cryptography computable by humans and hope that potential enemies do the same?

>>11713583
This is an anti-transhumanism thread, not an anti-computer thread. No one is suggesting that we stop using computers, its just that computers are only good within their narrow application for fast calculations; the brain succeeds in literally everything else.

>>11713590
*fast calculation and communication