/sci/ - Science & Math

I'd argue that during prehistoric times there was pressure to be fit not smart.

>>11665574
>Be on a hunt for animals 20 times bigger.
>Being able to perfectly coordinate between 5 to 20 people in the field without maps or human indicators (without writing).

>>11665550
>There is a correlation between brain size and IQ
Other factors dominate, though.
Elephants have far larger brains than humans do.

>>11665589
Interspecies comparisons add unnecessary complexity.Let's compare between human being of 20k years ago and current.

>The same can be said for cats and dogs-wolfs, their brains shrunk and they lost certain abilities.

If cavemen were so smart, how come they couldn't cast iron?

>>11665620
Because they weren't actually intelligent (in the pattern seeking way). Anyone can check up on the data we have and realize that Aborigines have a very well-developed visual cortex compared to any other group of people despite routinely scoring below 70 in IQ tests. The same holds true for Neanderthals who again have very well developed visual cortices.

>>11665579
>perfectly coordinate between 5 to 20 people in the field without maps or human indicators (without writing).
You don't need to be smart to do this. Success in hunter-gatherer lifestyles is negatively correlated with intelligence in fact.

>>11665620
Copying the cast iron technique doesn't make you smart.

Inventing "directed evolution" for the first time in 3 billion years capable yes (maybe)...

>>11665632
>Success in hunter-gatherer lifestyles is negatively correlated with intelligence in fact.
That statement has many implications. Source?

>>11665606
>Interspecies comparisons add unnecessary complexity
But the comparison is highly relevant. If you know (and there's papers on it) how human brains differ from larger elephant brains, that would partially explain how brain size can decouple from intelligence.
It would also need to be demonstrated (impossible without cloning) that decrease in brain size actually drove a decrease in intelligence. Did shrinkage evenly affect the different regions of the brain, for example.
Not that the question actually matters.
>The same can be said for cats and dogs-wolfs, their brains shrunk and they lost certain abilities.
But more relevant is domestic cats and domestic dogs were both being heavily artificially selected by humans towards certain traits.

>>11665649
I think I saw on tv that neanderthals used a big portion of their brain for smelling or something like that.

>>11665649
>how human brains differ from larger elephant brains
For exactly that reason I don't want to make comparisons between distant species. Is it so difficult to understand something so basic?

>But more relevant is domestic cats and domestic dogs were both being heavily artificially selected by humans towards certain traits.
The environmental selection is always the same. Whether caused by climate or by humans, there is no difference, we never directly alter genetics directly, only the phenotype, so there is no point in distinguishing between "natural selection" and "artificial selection". The selection with follow-up by "bloodline" is much more recent, at least from the Middle Ages or Roman times.

>>11665644
If intelligence were positively correlated with hunter gatherer lifestyles, then why did it die out? Why are Europeans not still hunter gatherers to this day?

In reality lack of written language is massively crippling to any possibility of positive intelligence selection.

IQ is actually negatively correlated to penis size. You're brain size has nothing to do with it.

>>11665721
1. No source
2. Off topic

>>11665705
>If intelligence were positively correlated with hunter gatherer lifestyles, then why did it die out?
Not a source.

That argument is so disgustingly simplistic that it is disgusting. Nowhere do I speak that less intelligent Neolithic peoples cannot overcome (at least demographically) more intelligent hunters. The environment includes food, but going deeper into the topic seems useless ...

>In reality lack of written language is massively crippling to any possibility of positive intelligence selection.
It is not so simple, memory and cultural trends are highly selected when there is no writing. It is naive to think that we can really understand the scriptures from thousands of years ago ...

>>11665759
Truth is, nobody want to research this due to politics; however, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

>It is not so simple, memory and cultural trends are highly selected when there is no writing
Maybe low level "survival" based intelligence. Written language is what allows for high level, conceptual thinking, i.e. what develops mathematics, philosophy, writing(obviously), ect. There's a good reason why technological advancement accelerated when the printing press was developed, it's because reading makes you intelligent, at least reading stuff not an a chinese waterboarding forum does.

>>11665550
Maybe our environments aren't challenging enough anymore and that's why our brains are shrinking. Dammit that would be a black pill

>>11665807
>Written language is what allows for high level, conceptual thinking, i.e. what develops mathematics, philosophy, writing(obviously), ect.
Maybe witten language with someone more capable of spatial thinking ability writing would be even more useful. Unfortunately, there were +10,000 years of distance between people with "big brains" and really useful writing systems. Because the writing was also refined, the Scriptio continua (not only) was horrible.


> it's because reading makes you intelligent
Useful =/= intelligent

To speak about the effect of writing would be to go back to the Neo-Assyrian - Sumerian empire...

>>11665839

I agree that it would be a black pill. But perhaps it is a recoverable state. The problem is not our current state but what we think of our current state, at least I think so.

>>11665579
I like the way you think.

>>11665632
>>11665807
>Success in hunter-gatherer lifestyles is negatively correlated with intelligence.
You need to back that claim up bro.

>>11665853
Are you interested in biology? The term niche describe a kind of pocket which an animal occupies. Nature dictates the shape of possible niches. I think we need a word for what you would call the boundary between niche and nature. Hypothetically it has a shape.

>>11665877
>nobody want to research this due to politics; however, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Can you find a compelling reason otherwise?

>>11665915
>Nature dictates
Nature =/= enviorment

I am not interested in entering a discussion of words...

Brain shrunk in a few generations. That is a fact...

>>11665923
Nobody wants to research this because there isn't a hypothesis and there's nothing to be tested. Lower intelligence vs what? City dwellers? You proved that the environments have different pressures. Everybody knows this. What value is there in measuring difficulty of hunter gatherer environments if we no longer occupy them? BTFO kid come back with an idea with substance.

>>11665926
Ya but nature = a theoretical boundary which reproducing species exist within. If it's something which exists on too many dimensions to count, that's fine but you can't deny it has a shape.

>>11665936
>Ya but nature = a theoretical boundary which reproducing species exist within

The "urban world" is not natural but it is the environment of 80% of today's human being.

So blablabla ...

>>11665936
Within an environment there are pressure in the form of food supply, habitat and mates. Those are the the low end resolution of what dictates a habitable niche; any shortage too far in one the species goes extinct.

Any time reproduction occurs, the three mentioned pressures are sufficiently relieved for a creature to exist. It is within the habitable zone or whatever you call it.

>>11665950
Us largely fabricating the environment we occupy in no way changes the fact that it exerts pressure on us.

>>11665550
Brain size started increasing recently, which is related to the Flynn effect. Read https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1041608015300078
>>11665589
It's within-humans bud.

>>11665973
>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1041608015300078
>1370 -> 1430
However much lower than 1600 cc of Cromagnon...

It is not my intention to delve into recent history, but it could be useful. The "homo sapiens of modernity" was possibly the most mediocre (nutritionally) in history...

>>11665550
>Brain size has been decreasing for the past tens of millennia.
no source provided

>>11665630
>>11665668
>neanderthals
>>11666009
>cro magnon

> You are 99,7% Neanderthal
https://files.catbox.moe/16b6ir.webm

> What does Science tell us about our Origins?
https://files.catbox.moe/l6r1g1.webm

> The DNA Hoax
https://files.catbox.moe/34ots5.webm

> Revolutionary News about Neanderthals!?
https://files.catbox.moe/azsazw.webm

> Neanderthal Diet (What did our Forebears eat?)
https://files.catbox.moe/hs7wtv.webm

> The Truth about Cro Magnon
https://files.catbox.moe/l4dy1m.webm

> 3 (((David Reich))) quotes
https://files.catbox.moe/i8d38n.webm

> Science Today
https://files.catbox.moe/8xg3z9.webm

> The Theory of Evolution
https://files.catbox.moe/t0u1rl.webm

> Quick Guide to DNA tests!
https://files.catbox.moe/32uy6l.webm

> Eye Color and Color Blindness
https://files.catbox.moe/bv8cl1.webm

> Blue Eyes and Brown Eyes
https://files.catbox.moe/ff5lj0.webm

> How the ENTIRE European Population will be NORDIC in some thousand years
https://files.catbox.moe/w5dd23.webm

> The Most Advanced Man
https://files.catbox.moe/g9c5y8.webm

> About Auto-Domestication, Technology & Civilization
https://files.catbox.moe/lfh6ol.webm

>>11665550
>>11665630
Visuospatial intelligence is critical for technology. You can't invent anything useful without it.
Pattern seeking is what gives you religion. Science requires systemizing, so that you can build coherent knowledge, instead of a random heap of the patterns you noticed.
>>11665705
>In reality lack of written language is massively crippling to any possibility of positive intelligence selection.
How so?
>>11665807
Writing predates printing press by millenia. The value of printing press is the ability to spread information quickly.
>>11665973
>Brain size started increasing recently, which is related to the Flynn effect
False. It peaked some 30ky ago.
>>11665973
>>11665930
>>11665850
>>11665649
>>11665637
Basically the bigger sensory cortex makes you better at memorizing, but at the cost of fluid intelligence. It doesn't makes us smart, it makes us dependent on culture. So we evolved bigger cerebral cortex to deal with the increasingly complex culture. The problem is that the big cerebral cortex overwhelms the cerebellum, which makes you lose the ability to think and tell what makes sense and what doesn't. The big cerebral cortex is fine as long as everything is true and predictable. Otherwise the cerebellum has not enough capacity to sort out the chaos, the cerebral cortex starts taking over and the consciousness collapses, and the person turns into an unthinking zombie, and what might be described as a hypocrite or a vicious person. It seems that sensory deprivation and some drugs can help the person to at least temporarily regain their consciousness and make sense of the world again.

>>11665550
>>11665630
Visuospatial intelligence is critical for technology. You can't invent anything useful without it.
Pattern seeking is what gives you religion. Science requires systemizing, so that you can build coherent knowledge, instead of a random heap of the patterns you noticed.
>>11665705
>In reality lack of written language is massively crippling to any possibility of positive intelligence selection.
How so?
>>11665807
Writing predates printing press by millenia. The value of printing press is the ability to spread information quickly.
>>11665973
>Brain size started increasing recently, which is related to the Flynn effect
False. It peaked some 30ky ago.
>>11665973
>>11665930
>>11665850
>>11665649
>>11665637
Basically the bigger cerebral cortex makes you better at memorizing, but at the cost of fluid intelligence. It doesn't makes us smart, it makes us dependent on culture. So we evolved bigger cerebral cortex to deal with the increasingly complex culture. The problem is that the big cerebral cortex overwhelms the cerebellum, which makes you lose the ability to think and tell what makes sense and what doesn't. The big cerebral cortex is fine as long as everything is true and predictable. Otherwise the cerebellum has not enough capacity to sort out the chaos, the cerebral cortex starts taking over and the consciousness collapses, and the person turns into an unthinking zombie, and what might be described as a hypocrite or a vicious person. It seems that sensory deprivation and some drugs can help the person to at least temporarily regain their consciousness and make sense of the world again.

>>11666654
So basically, the people with more cerebellar capacity build civilisation and order. People with big cerebral cortex take over, (>>11665973)
their mindless copying eventually leads to decay and chaos, the people with stronger cerebellums who are not hurt by the nonsense that much take over again and recreate the order.

>>11665550
>Why is it denied?
It isn't. There's just no reason to talk about it outside of attempting to justify racist views

>>11666686
It seems a way out of this cycle could be to create some sort of systems which is stable, but offers no opportunity to be spoon fed reliable information, so that the people with collapsed consciousness cannot get advantage over those able to think normally.

>>11666654
>Visuospatial intelligence is critical for technology. You can't invent anything useful without it.
It was not my intention to diminish its importance. Rather, it was to note that with civilization there is less pressure on visuospatial intelligence, at least they do not mean certain death.

>but at the cost of fluid intelligence
Einstellung effect?

>>11667427
>Einstellung effect?
More than that. It seems the cerebral cortex actually puts pressure on the cerebellum, so when the cerebellum is too weak, the cerebral cortex may 'win' and force the cerebellum to work for it. So instead of cleaning up the cerebral cortex, so that its contents stay alligned with reality, it gets used by the cerebral cortex to explain away how its contents are NOT at odds with reality. But any strong evidence that the cerebral cortex is wrong makes the grip more difficult, which causes the pain.

>>11667427
>Einstellung effect?
More than that. It seems the cerebral cortex actually puts pressure on the cerebellum, so when the cerebellum is too weak, the cerebral cortex may 'win' and force the cerebellum to work for it. So instead of cleaning up the cerebral cortex, so that its contents stay alligned with reality, it gets used by the cerebral cortex to explain away how its contents are NOT at odds with reality. But any strong evidence that the cerebral cortex is wrong makes the grip more difficult, which causes the pain.
Sensory deprivation robs the cerebral cortex of data to bombard the cerebellum with, and breaks the grip (with the same torturous effects). Also probably why blind people never get insane.

>>11666709
>waycism