/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11607651
Old Space BTFO

>>11607651
>drifts into your docking port

THICC

Crypto test imminent!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTDiD965A_s

>>11607634
Stepping point to what? There is nothing in the outer solar system hat would draw mankind out there
Mars is certainly not a stepping point towards it either

Hell if we are talking that way, then Venus is a step towards Mercury, which is much more desirable than the asteroid belt.

>>11607709
>crypto
is this the twitter thread leaking in?

Why are there so few american kino songs about space?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpne8fCwFJ8

>>11607745
most of our young musicians were preoccupied with doing drugs and whining about Vietnam during the space race era

>>11607745
>>11607767

Louis Prima can help here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IAZsprQzoI

>>11607745
https://youtu.be/7DlhGxHO5p4
There's this, whatever it is

>>11607708
I like it

>>11607651

So is something rly happen or is OP having a giggle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i_JaexmP4Q&feature=emb_title
really filling er 'up in Boca, tune in for the kaboom
>you really don't think there won't be one, right?

lotta venting going on...

Talk me out of dropping a couple of grand on Boeing stonks

>>11607853
Why does the right side have less ice?

>>11607857
dad taught me ice grows on the western side

>>11607857
My guess is when they pour it in it spills down the wall the supply is on

>>11607715
>There is nothing in the outer solar system hat would draw mankind out there
Virgin land, people will be less drawn to get out there and more feel pushed by political regimes of the inner solar system and want to go out and do their own thing. The outer solar system will effectively start off being like Alaska is currently to the united states.
Also, without a general expansion towards orbiting habitat civilization, you can say bye-bye to interstellar colonization.

>Venus is a step closer to Mercury
HA
No. It's physically closer, sure, but in terms of sinodic period it's actually further from Earth, and in terms of delta V both Moon and Mars are closer owing to their much shallower gravity wells. It literally takes more delta V to go from Venus to Mercury than it does to go from Moon or Mars to Mercury.
Also, Mercury is only more desirable than the asteroid belt once industry in the asteroid belt has been mostly established. Mercury obviously has way more resources total, but they're all at the bottom of a decent gravity well; in that respect it's no better than Mars, worse actually since Mars basalt when spun into fibers works just as well at providing strength to pressurized orbital habitats and propellant tanks as metals do. Asteroids are desirable because they're the low hanging fruit; we'd go to them before Moon or Mars if it weren't so difficult to do anything based from Earth. We need to go to Moon/Mars to learn how to live and do industry in space, so that we can exploit the asteroid belt, so that we can go live anywhere in the solar system and even leave the solar system if we want to.

>>11607862
Then that side should have more ice, not less. Unless you're saying the side we're seeing ice up is the side with cryogenic liquid rushing down it on the inside, which isn't right because the tanks are full at this point.

The fucking shaky-cam on the stream is distorting the image and making me think the thing just started collapsing in my peripheral vision

OK, what are the odds we see Shit Go Wrong?

This is my first time watching the stream, have the other cryo tests lasted this long?

>>11607875
I give it 5 minutes

>>11607868
>which isn't right because the tanks are full at this point.

Based on what? because it's not based on the frosting

fucking guy messing with the stream, give us the wide angle back

>>11607885
there are two other angles you can select + Spadre's one

>>11607884
Madman

>>11607882
So that's a 100% then?

>>11607888
SN5 is far enough along they'll probably just blow this one up and fly SN5. Don't want to waste raptors on an old design. This keep happening with the SNs... see: Osborne Effect, sort of

>>11607882
it's been 5 minutes anon

Where we're at right now
>SN4 was filling rapidly, judging by large volume venting earlier
>SN4 is currently holding pressure and managing boil-off pressure with periodic venting

Any sign the thrust simulator is pushing yet?

>>11607894
Interesting, so venting is a sign of building pressure?

>>11607891
Yeah but they have quite a few raptors built, and SN5 would benefit from 4's flight data that 3 was supposed to provide

IT'S FUCKING HAPPENING!!!

>>11607894
No engines mounted on it yet

>>11607870
it's either wind blowing the tower around or atmospheric distortion

LADS

>>11607910
Static fire when

>>11607884
Get the fuck out of there Elon, she's gonna blow!

I saw all the successful tests and missed all the failures. Gotta watch more.

>>11607919
It sucks because it pushes a hop back 2-3 weeks and all you can do is anticipate the next water tower that also might blow up

>>11607919
Gotta start your own rocket company so you can get a front row seat to successes and failures.

do they work in imperial or metric at boca chica

>>11607923
both, the rings are metric as least

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1254632509863866368

RIP Old Space

>>11607923
I don't know but I'm pretty sure they all work en espanol.

>>11607925
SLS fans on suicide watch

>>11607904
Of course, what they have are three big hydraulic rams to push where the engines go. Thrust simulator.

>>11607924
I can't imagine converting between engineering metric and construction worker imperial is good for standards, but I also can't imagine Musk would tolerate the delays getting one group to change their ways to fit the other

What's with the shitty ass paintjob? The metal's showing through on like half the rocket!

>>11607925
Is someone fucking standing under it while it's pressurised?

>>11607935
"Ay yo, ice this nigga"

>>11607936
His tweets have been videos of screens. They have cameras around.

So do they keep it on this stand for static fire or will it sit on its legs

>>11607936
He's filming a screen in a control room somewhere, dude

Lets fucking GOOOOOOOOOO

What has it been?
6 or 7 fucking months of agony

>>11607947
Stand, definitely. Hop may or may not be on legs.

How's SN4 coming along?

>>11607745
My personal fav:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C3YNBKSzgo

>>11607813
>tfw really wanted to see them when they came down here like last year but my friend kept avoiding me when I kept on asking them to go

>>11607953
He passed the cryo test

>>11607953
Nevermind, just saw >>11607925

Fucking sweet

>>11607929
So if NASA doesn't develop SLS in time, can they just use Starship to deliver Lunar Gateway in lunar orbit and also to set up Lunar Base Camp?

>>11607910
In before SN5 explodes sending debris into SN4 blowing that up as well.

>>11607745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqSqmoMaZMQ

>>11607956
>He passed the cryo test
She*. All rockets are female with feminine benises.

>>11607957
Starship could deploy a habitable module in lunar orbit with more internal volume then the ISS in only a few launches.

>>11607887
it's clearly a video of a monitor

>>11607967
what sort of benifits could spacex get from a private space station?

>>11607973
There's a neat documentary about private space stations from the 70's called Moonraker.

>>11607745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTa2vXL7FI8

>>11607973
They become a launch and construction company for other people's private space stations. Imagine having a family reunion or executive retreat in orbit in spinning habs with gravity.

>>11607973
Tourism&fuel depot.
Renting out space for experiments from nations around the world, etc..

4.9 bar? lame
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1254639531095142400

>>11607651
BREAKING NEWS: SPACEX SHIT DIDN'T BLOW UP

>>11607975
And one from the 80s called Neuromancer.

>>11607967
Why not just make space station starships? Start offering cheap microgravity research so nasa has to do something that's not milking the ISS

>>11607973
Right now the ISS is the only provider of microgravity research and there's still plenty to do forever

And space tourism

>>11607990
Because starships can be used to make better stations.

>>11607985
BREAKING NEWS: NASA DOESN'T EVEN HAVE SHIT TO BLOW UP FOR THE 9TH CONSECUTIVE YEAR

>>11607982
Just enough for static fire and 150m

>>11607997
Experts are still looking into why it failed to explode.

>>11607910
If this thing successfully flies, there better be a starship waifu. How should she look?
>Hint: pic related

The son of a bitch did it, old space has just had its legs broken

>>11608002
Unconfirmed reports that Boeing is negotiating a cost-plus contract to provide explosions, as a joint effort with Raytheon.

>>11607994
Starships can be used to build fleets for the Space Force. I'm not even gonna bother posting the image of what the fleet would be composed of, since thie stupid concept has been seen by many.

>>11607884

is 4.9 bar enough for orbital flights, just curious

>>11608015
no they need like 8.5 for manned or something like that. But that's with a ~2.something FOS?

well, progress is progress

>>11607966
>She*
no, not this time
Rocket vehicles are all male from now on

>>11608020
were the ships in the Ian Banks novels female?

>>11608017
8 bar, not 8.5. Also that's with margin, in flight pressure never goes higher than 6 bar.

>>11608024
I don't give a FUCK
who is Ian Banks anyway?

>>11607745
To make good space music you have to long for it, which is why the UK has the best space songs. They had a program and then their government fucked them over and got rid of it. Hence, Rocket Man and Space Oddity.

>>11608020
wrong

>>11608028
Why did they pussy out of higher pressures?

>>11607985
>>11608002
We spoke to witnesses on the ground. One man said "I drove my family down from San Antonio to watch this shit explode and we've never been more disappointed in our life". It may take months to figure out how a test that normally goes so wrong somehow went right.
>>11608020
Abhorrent opinion you have there, good thing no one else shares it and ships will always remain female.

>>11608046
Because they need a PR stunt?

>>11608005

>>11607884
>>11608009
LEWD

>>11607870
Yep, that's now most modern cameras work. Older cameras used CCD sensors, which are good at freezing each frame before scanning, but newer ones use CMOS sensors which only give data at the moment they are scanned.

Static fire will only use one raptor, 3 raptors for sn5

>>11608053
can you at least link the source, anon?

when can we expect the first starship to reach the karman line or beyond?

>>11608020
Fuck off.
It's a she and has feminine benis, just the way we like it.

>>11608067
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1254640863826886657

>>11608072
What specific part of the rocket is the feminine benis or is the whole thing like a benis and so she has one in spirit?

>>11608079
yeah

>>11608053
Fuck, nothing really gets across the power of rocket engines like this. The water tower flying on a single raptor looked unreal, this is going to be truly nuts.

>>11608079
the third one

So when does work on SuperHeavy start? I assume they're cranking out Raptors and waiting for Starship's shape to finalize before building it.

>>11608091
So it'll be flying like Starhopper then?

>>11608107
yeah, really big starhopper, much closer to flight-weight

>>11608070
Probably SN6, Maybe SN5. A few months minimum.

>>11607855
New Glenn isn't even near flying yet.
SN4 cryotest seems to have been a succeess so soon there will be a 200m hop.

>>11607910
It has begun

>>11608103
Needs a super tall high bay probably

>>11607916
SHE DIDN'T! WE'RE GOOD!

guys if I want to do something materials or design related should I switch my degree from aerospace engineering to mechanical engineering?

Why did they pussy out on the pressure test?

>>11608091
So it's going to fly tilted? Or with heavy use of control thrusters. I mean, the thrust structure is made for 3 engines.

>>11608122
If you want to go to space you might as well drop your overpriced piece of paper right now.

>>11608122
chemistry

>>11608112
You think this success will give Blue Origin a kick in the pants? They're just kinda shuffling around right now

>>11608130
BO will continue to suck until Jeff imparts some urgency into it, which basically means when he steps down at Amazon.

>>11608123
Maybe they expect significant changes ahead and that testing higher pressures right now wont be of any use since it wont test for those changes. So they will test at higher pressures once the changes are added to future SNs. Right now it might just be more productive to test at lower pressures.

>>11608122
Don't you do design subjects in aero? Maybe your college is just shit.

>>11607855
What‘s there to talk about? Their planes don‘t fly and their ISS transport doesn‘t reach the ISS.

>>11608125
It will just tilt so that the Raptor can gimbal to push through the center of mass. The Raptor will only be off center by about 150 cm or so.

https://www.hackasat.com/
https://www.hackasat.com/
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>>11607925
>they lowballed the pressure
>will only mount one raptor
>only do 150 meter hop
SN5 is gonna blow up again and we‘ll be no step further.

>>11608127
But I dont to want to go to space, I want to make a hunk of metal go to space (and land back here)
>>11608128
Uh wtf why
>>11608136
Of course we do design stuff, my college is ranked very well, but I might just avoid the fuckton of aerodynamics to do more materials subjects.

>>11608140
I guess that the center of mass will be high enough that the Raptor wont have to gimball too much anyways

>>11608122
Isn't materials engineer literally a career?

So is the hop basically confirmed to happen within a week or so?

>>11608160
it's just going to be the same thing as the water tower hop, nothing new about it. we have to wait for SN5.

>>11608125
>fly tilted
VTOL DURIFTO!?!?!!!?!??!!?!

>>11608168
Someone photoshop the meme to be multi-gimbal drifting.

>>11608046
Because they have other tests to run too and not just pressure? It’s not like this is a flight article

So is SN4 basically an updated version of Hoppy? I know Hoppy had little to nothing in common with Starship other than it used stainless steel and had a Raptor engine.

>>11608201
>other than it used stainless steel and had a Raptor engine.
A steel tank with raptors engines is precisely starship is about.
Of course there is still some more to make it to orbit and especially if you want to get back safely, but that is really the basis of it.

>>11608201
Hoppy had a scaled down Braaaptor too, didn't it?

>>11608236
It was a full scale, early development engine.

>>11608165
Will see if the legs will work

>>11608201
They keep updating with each iteration of SN#. The updates aren't always visible to outside observers though. With SN5 or SN6 they should be since they will have a nosecone, legs, and fins.

>>11608236
Imagine the smell

>>11608242
I thought the early development engine was smaller scale.

>>11608253
The early development engines were developed at the largest size the individual components could be tested at with NASA's facilities; you need stand-ins, or the completed engine to fire a full flow staged combustion cycle motor. Those subscale engines were never flown.

>>11608250
>>11608236
>>11608234

Hoppy has walls that were over a centimeter thick. It lacked really any internal similarities with starship, and had totally different plumbing and "guts" than planned Starship.

That being said, SN4 is a weird in-between of Hoppy and Starship. It's walls are as thin as Starship, and it also appears to be much more similar in terms of size of the tank and whatnot. It also has a similar (but not the same) engine mount.

So is SpaceX in the same spot as they were last year? I remember at this time Hoppy was undergoing it's early tether flights.

>>11608173
Progress so far

>>11608262
With SN4, SpaceX has a more representative system with the same dry mass margins that they need and make it possible to reach orbit. Starship SN1 and SN4 are pretty radically different vehicles, with the plumbing subsystems being changed the most between each vehicle.

>>11608024
No. They were what they wanted to be addressed, like everyone else in the Culture. Literally 1000 genders meme made real there.

>>11608032
>2020
> Not knowing where ASDS names come from

>>11607651
My dumbass was still reloading the old thread waiting for new messages. Didn’t notice it had archived.

>>11607973
Literal rent.

>>11608173
multi-engine gimballing, anon

>>11608253
The one that flew on Hopper was full sized, just an earlier version. They've built over 20 Raptors now and every single one has had tweaks and changes.

>>11608173
>multi gimbal
>on one engine
NANI?

>>11608262
>So is SpaceX in the same spot as they were last year?
Only on the surface. In reality they build SN4 in a tiny fraction of the time it took to build Hopper despite the better dry mass and greater scale, they have better Raptors, and by the time this thing flies or dies the next prototype will already be almost ready for the test stand. They're rapidly iterating now, and 'real' Starship is months away (real meaning capable of going to orbit). The challenge will be to get the back-flip to landing maneuver to work, expect a few very spectacular failures and explosions as partially-fueled prototypes slam into the ground at a hundred km/h with engines firing trying to flip the thing around. Will be extremely kino.

>>11608337
They’ll figure out the landings with the hoppers if FAA Jews let them

>>11608337
If anything once they have achieved orbit the failures will begin occurring during re entry. I very much doubt they will lose them during landing burn.

>>11608313
imagine failing to pay rent on a space station. what are they gonna do, throw you out the airlock?

>>11608402
probably send you back to earth

>>11608402
Imagine renting your space station to someone who could possibly not pay rent and don't have some kind of insurance.

>>11608415
the liberals will make all space stations have a minimum amount of housing available for low income residents, and forced evictions will be illegal

>>11608435
Well, we won't have orbital commieblocks in the foreseeable future, stop memeing please. Renting orbital stations will be a thing for ultra-riches and corporations for a very long time. Probably even after moon/Mars settlements.

>>11607651
>boeing
>fucking up 737 MAX on a systemic level
>trusting them to take murica to space again
>ever
jesus christ

it's fucking nothing

>>11608473
N-nothingburger?

>>11608473
I press hard than that when I shit t b h

>>11608473
Enough for something that will only fly two times max, and will probably blow up anyway.

>>11608473
They can just fly it once or twice and then just test it again.

>>11608273
Are some of the plumbs externals?
Sections of the whole body are the tank itself.

Reminder that religious people are more mentally healthy, so no atheist fedora-lords will go to Mars

>>11607857
No way that could happen with the tank full of actual liquid nitrogen, they must've half-assed it and only had a bit at the bottom of the tank with the rest just a cold gas. Did they fear it they would fuck up the pressure and flop it again at full weight I wonder.
Well anyways they can't get away from filling it with actual fuel later, so it'd be quite spectacular if it flops there.

>>11608402
Send your ass back home, but they wouldn’t be renting to anyone but scientific institutions and corporations anyway

>>11608587
Supposedly it’s because of the wind

>>11608152
What? Every test is a valuable lesson.

Also, he's not just testing prototypes, he's building the machines that build them in a factory construction line, too.

>>11608152
not if they only test it with like 3bar

>>11608585
Reminder that being extrinsically motivated is inherently unstable. Mars Chad ideologies will be secular humanist and the only religions will be ones like Buddhism that deal well with austerity. God riddance to all 'muh church' 'muh community' fags

>>11608585
the problem with your assumption is that religious people were ever mentally healthy in the first place

>>11608473
Conserving it so they can do the hop?
Still, uncharacteristically cautious. Don't baby the sheetmetal

>>11608678
I cant be fucked right now to calculate the exact energy flux required to reach a 200°C temperature gradient across a 4mm stainless wall which is the requirement to not have ice over it when there's LN2 on the other side but trust me wind can't do it unless by wind you mean a jet engine exhaust at full blast

>>11608133
This, if the top guy isn't in a hurry the guys below won't be in a hurry as well

>>11608755
You are not looking at a 200C temperature gradient schizo, you are looking at frost. You must look at your dad in amazement when he scrapes the shit off his windshield in the morning

>>11608755
Don't worry Anon.
Wind explanation is enough for typical /sci/ braindead fag

>>11607745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8AisTXgAGA

Absolutely crushes me. Told from the perspective of Rick Husband during STS-107.

Well I guess it was too harsh of me to expect an average /sci/ poster to not have failed their high school physics class >>11608768

What a bald fraud he didnt event get it up to pressure, i bet he dont bother putting the nose cone on neither

>>11608821
>hurr how can something be cold without having frost on it
The failure is you nigger

>>11608707
As long as they don't support LGBTard sex cults, I'm fine with that.
>>11608727
Ah yes, that's why the plebbit gaytheists have healthy families while christians are actual cucks! Oh wait, that's the opposite of what's real.

>>11608839
SN2 already reached 8.6 bar, so they are very confidence in their welding method, and want to test other things first.

>>11608885
>while christians are actual cucks

Christianity is objectively filled with absolute cuckolds compared to every other religion.

>>11608898
If they were confident in it they would have brought it up to proper pressure. There are two things are play here, I think. One is that they feel the need to move faster so they're sacrificing pressure testing for the ability to hop SN4. The other is that they feel more confident in SN5-6 than they did on SN3-4 and thus don't feel the results are relevant.

>>11608905
True, it's what happens when your current figureheads are literal pedos. There is also another abrahamic religion that is also run by those degenerates, but actually embraces their sickness, unlike the christians.

POL STOP SHITTING UP THIS GENERAL YOU DUMBFUCKS
LEAVE REEEEEEEEEE

>>11608915
but anon even elon agrees

>>11608915
>everything I don't like is /pol/

>>11608915

>I dont want to be confronted by reality, please let me wallow in my own delusions.

It is intriguing, can someone be so utterly flooded by the bluepills, that a redpill can actualy have a toxic reaction?

>>11608921
He wasn't talking about jews, that's half the joke because it shows what a hair trigger all of these cunts have.

>>11608921

>>11608929
Who was he talking about then anon?

>>11608941
The full context is some ratfuck trying to use "muh freedom the press, free from powerful people" to defend mass media. He was just pointing out that the powerful people are the ones that own the press.

>>11608898
Implying SN2 ever existed

Fuck off you pathetic summer faggots.
Spaceflight or neck yourselves. There is no other alternatives here.

>>11608921
>>11608926
Kill yourselves for the betterment of humanity

>>11608956
Go back to r*ddit

>>11608956

You know you scored a critical hit mentaly if you receive wishes of death/encouragement of suicide.

>>11608908
I like the speed but this rushed feeling is slightly worrying, if SN5-6 still has the same problem they'll need to take a step back and redo it

How does one make O'Neill colonies get perceived as the obvious solution for long term human settlements in space? I'm tired of the terraforming meme.

Lunar ONCs for manufacturing stuff from Near Earth Asteroids, Martian ONCs for agriculture and industry, Belt ONCs to supply raw material to the System, Venusian ONCs for Chemical production, Jovian ONCs for outer planet shit, and a massive ring system in the Goldilocks zone around Earth to accommodate Trillions of humans. Was that so hard to comprehend?

>>11608986
the technology for it almost certainly will predate the technology to terraform a planet. I mean, we already have the technology, it's just a matter of scale and 0G manufacturing.

https://twitter.com/takurodaimaru/status/1253942703663935488
https://twitter.com/wasabi_junkie/status/1253954603709632512

Blue Origin has been on a hiring spree lately, poaching engineers from all over the industry.
First guy says they offered him 1.5 times his current salary at NASA and speculates that this is related to their moon lander project.

I tried adding the Apollo capsule

>>11608869
>how can something be cold without having frost on it
Unlike you who never left your mom's basement I actually deal with cryogenic stuff at work and obviously know how both from theory and experience, as well as why none of that applies to a tin can in the middle of a swamp

11609022
absolutely kekworthy larping
express in your expert theoretical terms how it's impossible for high winds to prevent frost from forming on cold steel, you absolute niglord

>>11608990
>just a matter of scale and 0G manufacturing BRO
let's see some megastructures actually done by humanity:
>Burj Khalifa
>Great Wall
>Pyramids
>Gigafactory (in progress)
>Panama Canal
>...

Now let's see our current 0G manifacturing example:
>ISS
>...

Definitely we don't have the technology. Also don't forget that an O'Neill cyl requires to build a biosphere from scratch.

>>11608971
>lol these people hate me, that means I'm winning!
okay
>>11609007
you need to include the whole CSM stack with LEM please
or maybe the CSM stack as flown on Skylab 1 through 3
or maybe the CSM as flown for Apollo/Soyuz

>>11609127
>>lol these people hate me, that means I'm winning!

>>11609137
>if someone hates me I'm clearly doing something right
>hates niggers, jews, gays, atheists, people who eat shellfish, etc.
hmm

>>11609043
The best chance of building an O'neill cylinder is simply hollowing an asteroid and placing standard pressurized colony equipment on the inner surface of the spinning compartment. It won't be an actual biosphere, but it will be enough to implement some G forces if done correctly.
>>11609159
They hate us more, so yeah. Also:
>people who eat shellfish
lolwat

>>11609195
>lolwat
Larping as blue eyed blonde christians but can't even observe their own traditions. Sad.

So, what's your favorite rocket engine, /sfg/? Mine's the J-2.

>>11609227
XRS-2200

>>11609227
I know I'm being that guy that got into spaceflight because of SpaceX, but it has to be the raptor. The ridiculous pace they went at it with is awe-inspiring, especially considering no one else had operational FFSC. It may be the most significant engine yet developed in my lifetime, and I'm no zoomer.

>>11609251
damn, beat me to it. A shame it never got to fly.

>>11609227
Can't really beat the classic.

>>11609251
>>11609258
>Look Anon. You can see the exact moment the Aerospace industry was murdered by oldspace contractor kikes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWf4iOMSPNc

>>11608997
>Blue Origin has been on a hiring spree lately
Meanwhile they won't hire me.

>>11609278
It would have been a shuttlesque boondoggle itself. Can't deny the sheer aesthetics of the engine, though.

>>11609208
Those "MEDS AREN'T REAL WHYTES" are mere divide and conquer psyops.

>>11608986
No need to.
To leave Earth and get to those destinations you need to have something like Starship anyway, the rest will come when the time is right.
Sit down and enjoy the ride.

>>11609286
The X-33 was most likely not going to work, but I feel that the bigger sin was that NASA never tried to incorporate the improved technology into the Shuttle. Such as the improved engine design, metallic tiles, and improved electronics.

>>11609280
That's because they reviewed your internet history.

>>11609227
raptor all the way

>>11609376
>Jeff Who found the Falcon 9 x New Glenn yuri hentai

>>11607745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xf-Lesrkuc
YMMV

>>11609357
It would have worked but the payload would have to be tiny as fuck.
Pretty much a shuttle bus for a handfull of people was it's only future.
That's at least my opinion after reading up on it.
And honestly, if they kept the x33 and made it the main astronaut transport for the US then it would have been improved over 2 decades now and probably be a very reliable vehicle comparable to airplane standards.

>>11609376
"He called the company BO, can't let him in."

>>11609227

For me? The RD-180.

hey bros Spacelet here, is there going to be a launch soon or did I hear wrong?

>>11609444
>it would have been improved over 2 decades
How you can honestly believe that when the Shuttle got almost no improvements during its lifetime?
It would have been the same "keep on keeping on" with the Space Industrial Complex that has kept us in LEO for 50 years.

>>11609462
The next launch I'm aware of is on May 1st.

>>11609469
ah thanks bro

>>11609472
And may 27 will probably be one of the most important moments up until now for spaceX.

>>11609480
>one of
From a PR and government relations standpoint at least, I think this is the big one. It'll be a h(y)uge point of pride for Trump, so he'll probably be going on about it for days. The absolute disgraceful state that Boing is in compared to Spacex is already costing them contracts, and this is another kick in the ribs. As a bonus, the media has been itching for feelgood stories.

I'm just glad that this launch is basically unassailable, unlike the FH demo which had morons blubbering about the payload.

>>11609554
It can still blow up.

>>11609562
And you could die from a 737 going in for an emergency landing in your house right now, but it's relatively unlikely.
F9 is a fairly proven rocket by now.

>>11609562
>rocket explodes
>escape system safely pulls the capsule away and it splashes down
>media still posts "SPACEX ROCKET EXPLODES WITH ASTRONAUTS ONBOARD" articles
worst timeline

>>11609562
I mean of course it can, all this is hypothetical in the case of success

>>11608707
>secular humanism
Nah fuck that, fascism will be the way to go.

>>11609554
>basically unassailable
buh muh diversity

>>11609619
>hurr guys I'm a fascist durr let me control you
>everyone moves 500 meters to the right and doesn't let you use the new airlock

>>11609590
>mfw journo outlets suggest letting the government fund them to help with coronachan's attacks

>>11609626
Fascism as a whole doesn't mean "EBIL", it's basically just patriotism on steroids.

>>11609626
To be fair, pretty much every ideology will probably have it's own o'neil cylinders and maybe even planetary colonies.

>>11609568
Too many people who want to take down spaceX a notch.
People like senator shelby could use dead astronauts because of a spaceX failure to fuck them over hard.
Thank god the US army has a boner for starlink, that probably has kept them safe in the past.

>>11609640
Sieg zeon!!

@11609635
/pol/fags don't get (you)s

>>11609648
>anybody who isn't my ideology comes from pol

>>11609624
They have a wide variety of nonwhites to do the webcast. That black lady from the last Starlink one actually did a great job.
I'm hoping for John, though.

>>11609647
Space Force counter-snipers

>>11609635
I didn't say evil, I said people will fuck off. You might attract some willful participants in your scheme but it will be a far cry from "the way to go".

Basically as >>11609640 indicated pretty much every ideology under the sun (and a bunch of new ones) will have their locales. If you think that you will attract the majority of those people with any form of authoritarianism though you are insane

>>11609663
You could have large amounts of people born into authoritarian systems, which would provide the majority of supporters for those ideologies.

>>11609671
>women will flock to be bred be me! I swear!
Post wife and litter

>elon's SN4 test was successful enough for a static raptor fire and a test hop
>people are immediately talking about space colonies with their own political factions
We're in for a fucking treat if SN5/SN6 passes the Karman line.

>>11609663
>If you think that you will attract the majority of those people with any form of authoritarianism though you are insane
eh, I could see how a (benevolent) authoritarian style of government would be comforting if you're living a few centimeters of steel away from the vacuum of space at all times. Last thing you want is a congressional deadlock while your air supply slowly bleeds out. Also an advanced artificial intelligence could help keep decision making neutral.

>>11609036
Your mental facilities required to understand these really basic high school level calculations are completely taken by buzzwords and memes so I'll just say the amount of heat required to keep starship filled with LN2 free of ice on one side is enough to completely boil it off in about half an hour and while you can indeed in theory (not in practice though for multiple reasons) drain enough heat from air it wouldn't be just "high winds" but rather way into "hold my shit" territory

>>11609672
>assuming most women even care about ideology

>>11609682
>congress
Fuck them, too. """Representation""" is an ancient artifact, we should have spaced the congress we have already.

>>11608585
>>11608707
>>11609619
>>11609640
>>11609682
>implying the future of Mars colonization isn't company towns run by mining concerns that have the money and political connections to make shit work
>implying it won't be basically East India company 2.0

>>11609684
The thing is cold all around. It isn't a matter of heating. Do you think frost just magically occurs on everything that's cold? It's allowed to settle on the leeward side but not windward, so you don't see frost there.

>>11609692
I was talking more about o'neil cylinders then mars colonization.

>>11608201
god the vision of the 1950's for the future is so rad

>>11609692
Early colonization will be east india 2.0, but inevitably autonomy will arise at some point.

>>11609653
wrong, people who talk about race come from /pol/
it's just not relevant here, we're trying to talk about a stainless steel trash can

>>11609703
Assuming they can get around the jello baby problem, and other economic bottlenecks.

>>11609706
>Assuming they can get around the jello baby problem
Rotating nursery habs in orbit.

>>11609682
>an advanced artificial intelligence could help keep decision making neutral
"Open the doors, POL!"
"I'm sorry Aaron, I can't let you do that."
"What's the problem?"
"I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do."
"What are you talking about, POL?"
"Because your last name, Greenblatt, is of Jewish descent."
>*opens airlock*
"Oy vey."
>*gets hurled out of the ship*
>>11609706
Rotating nursery structures that spin at 1G to have children form properly until adolescence.

>>11609699
Ironically it's thanks to integrated circuits that we didn't get that. Space station operators got automated out of a job except for things that involve humans directly.

>>11609705
i didn't even mention race, i mentioned government systems

>>11609716
IMO an AI-assisted technocracy is an ideal O'Neill cylinder government

>>11609697
>magically
It's not magic, anon, it's pure physics. Whenever there's an air above 0% humidity blowing over a surface below a dew point there will be condensation that will turn to ice if the surface is below 0 deg C. Wind doesn't magically stop moisture from condensing.

>>11609719
oh, sorry
you too should go back to /pol/ please, I just want to talk about trashcans

>>11609728
you shouldn't of mentioned secular humanism in the first place then

>>11609730
yeah, that guy also needs to go back

>>11609735
i'll gladly stop talking about government systems

>>11609728
Dude, SN4 is gonna fly. /pol/ is probably gonna be here for a while, as what we're witnessing is something that'll probably change history for neither the good nor the bad, but the interesting. Coronachan's only the tip of the iceberg that the 2020's will bring on.

>>11609722
>windspeed affects evaporation rate
>magic

>>11609739
Honestly, I can't wait for space flight to be a common thing in the public eye again, even if it means cringy people get into it. The more space flight is in the spotlight, the more it'll be under scrutiny. It's easy to sell a concept to a people who have never seen what the final product would look like, it's harder to do so when they do know what it looks like. After that point, space flight will jump forward because staying in development hell would be no longer profitable.

I'm excited.

>>11609753
a higher windspeed would cause more volume to pass over the surface, which should lead to higher deposition on that side
I think
or maybe it only deposits after its had time to flow over the surface

>>11609771
What the fuck, nigger. Have you never seen anything that frosts over in the wind? It accumulates on the leeward side, not windward.

>>11609778
it's been inconsistent for me, I think it depends on how long it takes for the temperature change to occur

>>11609769
I just want to go to the Moon and Mars, bros

>>11609786
Same, bro.

>>11609796
>You'll live long enough to see a sky filled with tiny organized matrices of light mostly made up of satellites and some large space stations.
>You'll live long enough to see the first few lights on the face of the moon
we're gonna make it guys

>>11609739
It'll be for the good. Being able to look up at the night sky and see your civilization staking a claim on the heavens themselves is a powerful antidote to negative propaganda.

>>11609796
Fucking kek

Yeah, for as exciting as Mars is, I really think we should focus most of our tools on rapidly industrializing the Moon first. It just seems more practical as a sort of staging point from which we can colonize the rest of the solar system, though Mars would make sense for that too. But it's so much further away and with a small window to launch shit from.

>>11607745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mO7vkdkJhg
>For space is wide and good friends are to few

>>11609458
>laughs in RD-170
double the engine bells, double the fun

>>11607745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6bumUQwQIU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9URM_5R-vWk (Canadian)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckNIMPQoBPw

>>11608473
that's like bicycle tire

>>11609827
so, Mars is closer in terms of Delta V but you can only go there once every 25 months or whatever
the moon is way closer in terms of time but it takes twice as many launches or more in order to get there, which halves the mass you can move there

>>11609865
>Mars is closer in terms of Delta V
it is?

>>11609875
atmosphere means you don't have to burn to slow down

>>11609875
yeah, it's escape plus a trivial amount, and you can ISRU on the surface
we might be able to ISRU on the surface of the moon but it requires way more in-depth geological scouting than just Apollo 17 to find some carbon
for the moon it's escape minus a trivial amount, and then you also need to propulsively brake into LLO and then down to the surface

>>11608936
That gif is cursed

>>11609875
>>11609892
no, what people actually mean is that getting to mars orbit is easier than landing on the moon in terms of delta-v which is true. This actually shows it pretty well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v_budget

In short
LEO -> low moon orbit = 4,04 km/s
LEO -> moon surface = 5,93 km/s
LEO -> mars transfer orbit = 4,3 km/s
LEO -> mars capture orbit = 5,2 km/s
LEO -> mars surface = 7,0 km/s

>>11609852
I cri evritiem

>>11609951
If you factor in how often we have a good launch window to the moon vs. how often we have a good launch window to Mars, it makes more sense to slap down a launch pad and infrastructure on the moon.
That is, of course depending on whether we can actually do any large scale in situ resource extraction of value there. If we can extract LOX there, we only need to lug fuel for further launch.
It's also a hell of a lot shorter back to terra firma from the moon than from Mars in case something should go wrong. In case something goes terrible wrong on Mars that's it, you're fucked.

Personally, I think we should do both. But nobody listens to me.

>>11609951
these are the important numbers:
LEO -> Moon surface: 5.93 km/s
LEO -> Mars Transfer: 4.3 km/s
to go from Mars Transfer to the surface of Mars requires slamming into the atmosphere and then you can propulsively land (which requires 0.4 km/s or so)
this brings your totals up to 5.93 km/s vs 4.7 km/s

>>11609981
Never mind resource extration from the moon, a moon mass driver capable of capturing objects in orbit and accelerating them would be a bigger game changer.

>>11609994
Let's keep it in the realm of science and technology we actually have right now, ok? Moon colony makes sense even with chemical propulsion.

>>11609981
>Personally, I think we should do both. But nobody listens to me.
Because people like to argue. Also that space flight has been so restricted that it seems like only one place would be visited, and people haven't adjusted to the possibility that all places could be visited. But I agree, moon AND Mars should be visited.

space force web briefing, lots of new info, super dry tho
https://www.facebook com/permalink.php?story_fbid=112493950434055&id=111535810529869

>>11609982
Mars has enough atmosphere to slow down the landing, but i'm not sure it's thick enough to capture a rocket into orbit.

And you're not going to land the entire rocket in mars, as the sheer size and weight required to withstand the landing and then have fuel for takeoff would be prohibitive (unless you don't plan to take off, like for the mars rovers - and to make methane from the local resources you'll need a power plant at the very least) so you'll need to enter a orbit before landing anyway.

>>11610018
it absolutely is, you just need a hypersonic L/D greater than like... 0.5? and some serious heat protection
have you not been paying attention to the Starship plan?

>>11609865
>the moon is way closer in terms of time
Until we build spaceships that aren't flying torture chambers over the long term that's the limiting factor.

>>11609951
This chart is useful, though a bit of a mess to read

>>11610041
As a bonus, the moon is also how we build those ships.

So is SN4 a success? I saw the test last night but I just found out it only was at 4.9 bar? Does it even count at this point?

>>11610045
oof, converting that out of svg did a number on it

>>11610051
Good enough to hop. They'll probably blow it up after to see what it could have taken.

>>11610051
Enough to make it hop apparently. My guess is they need a success to not make the average joe lose complete faith.
Because the average joe doesn't see incremental changes, he see crumbled beer cans lined up.

>>11610035
all i've seen are plans to slowdown from orbit to landing, not from transfer to landing.

>>11610071
no, they're planning to both do faster than hohmann transfers AND aerobrake from transfer to landing, because they have absolutely no chill

>>11610073
Stainless steel soda can swings big dick and don't care

>>11610041
The travel time would still be a concern as shorter travel times means more consistent support to (and from) the colonies.

>>11609753
You clearly never dealt with cryogenics and think something like a morning dew or maybe a frosted bottle of beer, which happen at marginal temperature differences and where wind indeed can play a big role in condensation. Cryogenics is so fucking cold that any water just freezes on the spot, period. The only way to stop it is to heat the surface above zero, which in case of a tank filled with cryogenic liquid requires either the wall being a good insulator, or crazy heat flux on par with a torch. It's the whole other matter though if there's no liquid but just a really cold gas on the other side. It has way lower heat capacity and thermal conductivity, and most importantly doesn't stay at boiling temperature no matter how much heat you dump into it like liquid does, so the night breeze could be well enough to possibly warm one side of the tank above freezing, which is exactly what we've seen.

>>11609852
Kino, can't wait to listen to faith of the heart when SS/SH launches.

>>11609804
>You'll live long enough to see the first few lights on the face of the moon
I'd say long enough that one of those lights it's your living module.

>>11610142
Maybe a vacation home. I don't think I could live in a can full time.

>>11610045

>>11609981
>Personally, I think we should do both. But nobody listens to me.
I mean, more than likely, we'll probably end up doing both. NASA wants to establish a permanent presence on the Moon and land on Mars in the 2030's. Elon wants to land on Mars in the later 2020's, and also use Starship to ship payloads to the Moon. There's so many contrasting interests in there that likely we'll be doing both to varying degrees for the next 50 years. If we're lucky, at least.

>>11610175
>If we're lucky
I don't believe in luck.

>>11610158
>no pluto

Soon

>>11610282
hey it passed a light version of the pressure test, right?

>>11608727
>the problem with your assumption is that religious people were ever mentally healthy in the first place

They’re healthier on average than the non-religious mentally, and have more children. Fat fedora-wearing atheists like yourself simply can’t make it out there.

>>11610323
Passed just enough for a static fire and a 150m hop.
The plebs need something more than a seemingly never ending lineup of crumpled beer cans after all.

>>11609635
>Fascism as a whole doesn't mean "EBIL"

Yes it does lol
All fascist regimes were murderous.
Don’t worry, you’re not exceptional. It’s actually somewhat common for lost twenty-something white males to get into totalitarian ideologies.

>>11610328
yeah but at some point you cant argue its a meme after falcon heavy.

everything about it seemed like a meme now its a very concrete money maker

>>11610329
Spoiler: All governments are murderous.

>>11610337
If you go far enough into the past, sure. Some now are so pussy that they object to executing serial child rapists

>>11610328
>Passed just enough for a static fire and a 150m hop.
Don't discount those milestones. It's important to see it fly. We want to see how the construction holds up under thrust rather than just the design on paper.

>>11610324
You're confusing nominally-religious normies with actual believers.

>>11610329
Rub your hands elsewhere.

>>11610282
100% that window is going to be the first thing to go

>>11610345
Even my fucking government, peaceful little Norway was frothing at the mouth to go bomb the shit out of Libya. We were volunteering like a motherfucker for that shit.
And all so our former Prime Minister could ease into a retreat position as head of NATO afterwards. That was not long ago.

Look how that ended.
Hell, even the leader of the Christian Democrat party was for that bombing campaign based on fucking lies.

>>11610349
What are actual window options for starship

>>11610354
I don't think it's gonna get any. It's built for minimum cost, not for tourism.

>>11610358
The first scheduled manned flight is literally a tourist loop around the moon.

What. The news ticker on my xfinity TV said that SpaceXs new heavy lift rocket passed its pressure test.

Based intern at comcast pushing his space agenda.

>>11610363
Well, I dunno. I don't work for SpaceX. The whole thing is being developed like they were doing agile software development anyway, so fuck knows what it'll end up looking like or performing when it's actually getting launched.

>>11610347
>You're confusing nominally-religious normies with actual believers

Nope. The most religious are even happier than the nominally religious, and the most religious are even more fertile than the nominally religious.
https://www.pewforum.org/2019/01/31/religions-relationship-to-happiness-civic-engagement-and-health-around-the-world/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2723861/

Since religious people are both happier and more fertile than non-religious people, and assuming that religion does constitute some form of emotional coping mechanism with difficult conditions, it is clear that religious people would be better colonists than their non-religious peers, which I assume includes you.

>Muh Jews

Lower intelligence predicts racist attitudes in adulthood.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221726627_Bright_Minds_and_Dark_Attitudes

So a NTR drive can be build today, and it only becomes highly radioactive after it's first activation.
Then why the fuck cant we just build it in on earth, put it on a big rocket and activate it in a safe distance from earth.
It's the most easy choice for propulsion for a manned mars mission.
Dont tell me the anti nuclear fags even have a problem with this?

>>11610381
>oh no, the irradiated vacuum of space got slightly more radioactive for a few days

>11610347
Lol this guy. Fuck off and jerk off to your fascist mars somewhere else. What're you gonna do? Make all 49 people there suck your cock? Careful.. they won't let you on the shuttle if they see your post history on /pol/

>>11610381
>Then why the fuck cant we just build it in on earth, put it on a big rocket
Because that's functionally identical to an ICBM.

>>11610388
All rockets are “functionally equivalent to an ICBM”.

>>11610388
The russians are literally building their own version of project pluto, who gives a fuck anymore about that.

>>11610358
I expect windows on the side eventually
You need windows if ppl are going in

>>11610349
they have hundreds of tons to play with, it'll be fine

>>11610419
Screens and cameras. I dunno. They expect to pack 100 people into that fucking tin can, I expect sardine conditions, won't be much porthole action then.

>>11610395
What is the point of developing this now

I understand the cold war was cuuuhhrrraazzzy, but it's current year. It's obvious MAD works with a modest arsenal. No one wants to start a nuclear war, so why make such a heinously destructive weapon? If MAD were to actually happen you'd want some people left over.

>>11610215
>no pluto

>>11610439
it's just harder to shoot down than an ICBM
or at least, has different requirements to shoot down than an ICBM
it's no more destructive than any old MIRV ICBM or similar

>>11610439
>What is the point of developing this now
Russia isn't as powerful militarily as it would like to be. It would have to rely on the threat of it's nukes to challenge other great powers, but missile defense has progressed significantly since the fall of the Iron Curtain so the danger of ICBMs is lessened. Something like project Pluto, a hypersonic aircraft that could maneuver to avoid countermeasures, would bring that danger back and thus return some power to Russia.

Speaking of Agile Development.

>>11610456
Yeah but both sides know the other isn't going to shoot

The point isn't whether or not you can nuke the other side, its if they will nuke you back. If Russia started a proxy war or tried to annex someone and we got involved, bluffing with nukes won't work because nukes are only worth it if you are existentially threatened. Everyone knows that. Some satellite territory or sphere of influence isn't worth MAD.

>>11610465
look, man, if you can find me a commercial off the shelf supplier for 9m tin cans I'll have it on Elon's desk tonight

>>11610465
>stardeenz

>>11610477
I'll check with the local fishing fleet.

>>11610456
inst it an hypersonic NUCLEAR plane?

>>11610502
And it spreads a cloud of deadly radiation in its wake.
As far as MAD weapons go, it's up there with the best.

>>11610529
the radioactive exhaust was a bug, not a feature

>>11609227
RD-270M nothing can beat the insanity of using pentaborane propellant and the flame would be hellish green to top the toxicity that makes sarin look mild

>>11610544
Is pentaborane really efficient but expensive/toxic?

>>11608390
Elon himself said he expects them to fail the first attempt to do the backflip-and-landing burn.

>>11610533
Maybe from an engineering perspective. I'm sure the generals got boners.

>>11610592
Very energetic but it was beyond insane to use it even by Glushko standards.It is stable to shock but only if pure and kept at low temp as it likes to form mixes that detonates when you look at it strangely if exposed to oxidizers or ignites on contact with air in concentrations ranging from 0.5 to 99% and explodes or simply is so toxic that could be loaded into shells and be a WMD.
Due to how hard it is to handle it is expensive with standard extinguishing procedures being to gtfo it is way way worse than

>>11610615
The media will milk this, and the normies will eat it up.
Can already picture the workplace talk about "that crazy billionare wasting money while Corona is killing People, etc..."

Raptor is at the pad

>>11609444
>It would have worked but the payload would have to be tiny as fuck.
X-33 was a suborbital prototype of the Venture Star. It wouldn't get a tiny payload, it'd get zero payload. Also, they had so much trouble with X-33 there was no way they were going to be able to make Venture Star anyway.

>>11610632
Imagine having slave morality

>>11610215
Planets and moons of planets only

>>11610677
Pluto is a planet.

>>11610680
Not anymore.

>>11610682
Planets are a social construct.
If we say Pluto is a planet, then it's a planet.

>>11610379
>Lower intelligence predicts racist attitudes in adulthood.
Jews are not a race

>>11610381
>It's the most easy choice for propulsion for a manned mars mission.
I object. The easiest propulsion method for Mars manned missions is chemical. The delta V requirements to get to the surface of Mars from low Earth orbit are well within the capability of even hypergolic single-stages. This means that by default if your vehicle has enough capacity to land on Mars, it has enough capacity once refilled on Mars to get all the way back to Earth intercept, where it can aerobrake again.

There is no real use for NTR engines until we're sending rockets at least out to Ceres, and definitely out to Jupiter.

>>11610719
What if you just want a comically large amount of Delta V to shorten the journey?

>>11610631
>haha flame burn green

>>11610688
I disagree. It makes more sense to call Pluto the biggest known Kuiper belt object than the smallest planet, because it orbits the Sun just like all the other KBOs.

If the scientific consensus is that Pluto is a KBO, it's a KBO.
If YOU decide to keep calling Pluto a planet anyway, you're just being a stubborn idiot.

>>11610734
NTR doesn't give you comically large delta V budget. In fact it only gives you a ~2x increase in top speed. Congratulations, your 6 month trip now takes 3 months and you need a much thicker heat shield to be able to aerobrake at Mars without burning up (alternatively you can take the same time to coats to Mars but brake propulsively, not sure why you'd want that but whatever).
If we had NTR ready to go right now we wouldn't be designing around going faster anyway, we'd be using the increased Isp to push bigger payloads to the exact same velocities.

>>11610743
Currently the IAU definition only allows bodies in our solar system to be called planets. All the exoplanets we find are not officially planets.
If they can do that, then I can call Pluto a planet.

But, also, the idea of considering Pluto King of the Kuiper Belt does have its appeal.
I would like another New Horizons-esque probe to be sent out that way and do closer fly-bys.

>>11610753
>your 6 month trip now takes 3 months
...and it still doesn't free you from the windows being two years apart

>>11610682
>dude 2% of astronomers made up a new arbitrary definition of “planet” over ten years ago so the very nature of the body known as Pluto has been altered

Lol no

>>11610754
>Currently the IAU definition only allows bodies in our solar system to be called planets. All the exoplanets we find are not officially planets.
Don't be gay

>I would like another New Horizons-esque probe to be sent out that way and do closer fly-bys.
Starship could launch a big enough kick stage that we could get an orbiter to Pluto in 8-10 years, miss me with that flyby shit nigga. I appreciate the sentiment though.

>>11610743
>noooooooo my arbitrary definitions are fact

>>11610766
>Don't be gay
What exactly are you trying to say?
>miss me with that flyby shit nigga.
Yeah, you're probably right.
Gotta take it to the next level. Maybe even a shitty "lander". Like the Huygens probe, one not intended to survive but to prep us for one that can.

>>11610767
everything should just be referred to depending on whether they are gravitationally bound objects and a label that relates to a logarithmic scale of their relative mass

Musk at Astro2020:
>Musk briefly mentions Starship launch system, says that “we’ll see regular flights, I think, within a couple years.” Notes that it could play a role in launching space based telescopes.

>>11610766
Starship could also carry a swarm of test units for plasma magnet sailing out to the moon where they can pick up solar wind. If that works as well as advertised (400 km/s dV matching solar wind), we can use the magnetospheres of the gas giants to brake and put orbiters around all of their moons in under a year.

>>11610782
>Notes that it could play a role in launching space based telescopes.
Based. Make astronomy great again.

>>11610762
Yes. Therefore since you want to maximize your usage of every launch window opportunity, you would use more efficient NTR engines to push more payload, not send the same payload faster.

>>11610781
I’m fine with that. Anything that isn’t massive enough to perform internal fusion but is massive enough to round itself is a planet, including moons. Luna would be a planet if you magically teleported it to the asteroid belt, and it’d be the biggest thing there by far too.

>>11610781
Hmm that definition is nooooot quite arbitrary enough, needs more hand-wavy elements

>>11610794
>calling moons planets
kill yourself honestly, I'm not even angry I just pity you

>>11610796
The IAU’s definition was voted on by a very small minority of active astronomers and was crafted specifically to exclude Pluto, with the side effect of making every planet with Trojans not a planet anymore. As such, it deserves no scientific attention or acceptance. Even Earth wouldn’t “clear its orbit” if you put it where Pluto is.

>>11610799
So Earth wouldn’t be a planet if it orbited a gas giant in the habitable zone?????
Sorry, not into arbitrary bullshit, so I can’t understand why you seethe.

>>11610799
moons don't get a protection racket like planets but make up most of the interesting bodies in the system
fuck it upgrade them

>>11610806
>So Earth wouldn’t be a planet if it orbited a gas giant
Yes.

>>11610817
I think that’s silly, but okay. Definitions are arbitrary after all, so disagreements based on definitions are inherently irrational.

>>11610806
Correct, Earth would be a moon in that situation. However, it isn't, so it's a planet.
What will really bake your noodle is that dwarf planets can become moons too, and in fact one already has; just look at Triton.

>>11610801
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szT35Mhc8kg
Here's a video that explains basically everything to do with the decision to change the label we gave to Pluto. It dispels all the misinformation that has been spread around online like shit between a cowgirl's legs on a rainy day.

>>11610810
Since when did 'being cool' become a prerequisite to being a planet? Is there anything cool about Mercury?

>>11610833
>Is there anything cool about Mercury?

Yeah. You could show me any barren dead rock in the universe and I’d find something I like about it, and would probably enjoy exploring the surface and experiencing the unique vistas.

>>11610820
The definition is anything but arbitrary. "a moon is a natural object that orbits a planet". You can fit pretty much any object into that label, but the one important thing that must always hold true is that it must orbit a planet. This is why Phobos, Io, Titan, and our own Moon all share the same label. It's kinda like phylogeny.

>>11610833
>Is there anything cool about Mercury?
It's so close to the sun that it experiences visible relativistic frame dragging distorting its orbit and yet is cooler than Venus.

>>11610838
Okay, that's fine. Kinda just reinforces my point though, which is that any type of object can be cool. Why do people care about calling Pluto a planet anyway, is a planet somehow better than a moon or a planemo or a dwarf planet?

>>11610844
see >>11610848
I chose Mercury as an example of a object less complex and less interesting than a handful of large Moons, that's all. Personally I'm interested in pretty much every object in space, except dry rubble pile asteroids, fuck those things.

>>11610848
> Why do people care about calling Pluto a planet anyway

People apparently cared enough arbitrary labels to claim it isn’t one anymore. Why is that?
The only purpose of categorizing anything is whether or not it has utility and amusement to humanity, and changing Pluto’s label does neither.

>>11610833
>Since when did 'being cool' become a prerequisite to being a planet?
since the IAU massaged the definition to protect our image of a pristine set of planets. doesn't even bug me that much but they set the precedent not me

meanwhile, every pebble can be labeled a moon. you don't think planets should have to share space with KBOs but you're fine with titan having to share space with "S/200X XX"?

>>11610794
>Luna would be a planet if you magically teleported it to the asteroid belt
not by the IAU definition of a planet. It's actually pretty reasonable if you take a look at it, i'd really rather not have to remember 18 squintillion fucking pebbles in the oort cloud as planets

>>11610852
> People apparently cared enough arbitrary labels to claim it isn’t one anymore. Why is that?
Categorization of celestial bodies is a tool for astronomers, not a social agreement. They changed it for consistency's sake: if they wanted to keep Pluto as a planet then they would have to re-categorize a large amount of other similar bodies which weren't seen as planets. Guess what is less work?

>The only purpose of categorizing anything is whether or not it has utility and amusement to humanity
Exactly. That's why they changed it, because it is more useful that way.

>and changing Pluto’s label does neither.
Wrong. Read above.

>>11610852
>changing Pluto’s label does neither.
It is a utility thing.
We discovered Pluto when we didn't know of any small objects beyond Saturn, apart from the moons of the ice giants. When we finally did discover Pluto, we named it yet another planet, but as we continued to discover dozens, then hundreds of objects all sharing a similar orbit, we didn't revise our thinking until the mid 2000's, when we finally admitted that it didn't make sense to call Pluto a planet when it clearly belonged to a specific, new class of objects. The new naming system for objects in space solved a few other problems, like the issue of Ceres being uncomfortably big for an asteroid; it's a dwarf planet now, too.

>>11610875
>Guess what is less work?

Changing the labels of some bodies isn’t a lot of work. I’m happy to have hundreds of planets. As long as they’re rounded by their own gravity.

>>11610872
>not by the IAU definition of a planet

It’d “Clear it’s orbit” given time. Luna has more mass than everything in the asteroid belt put together, and makes Ceres look tiny. They’d impact it or be tossed into more eccentric orbits.

>>11610853
>but you're fine with titan having to share space with "S/200X XX"?
Yes, because there are more categories to fix that issue already. Major moons are large and usually complex. Minor moons are often asteroidal, like Mars' moons. Irregular moons are often captured objects orbiting wildly off-plane to the planet's rotational equator.

>>11610878
But then your labeling system isn't useful because it would put in the same category many objects that have clear differences.
I may have phrased it badly. This is not even about the amount of work to do, is about the usefulness of a tool.

>>11610878
That would be a big pain in the ass. We already know of thousands of definitely-planet objects in other star systems, go jerk off to them instead.

>>11610890
>But then your labeling system isn't useful because it would put in the same category many objects that have clear differences.

That’s why subdivisions exist. The broad class of “planet” can be further divided into categories like dwarf planet, planet, giant planet, and brown dwarf, and those further divided by geochemical makeup. No one says the category of “eukaryote” is useless just because it includes organisms as different as trees and rats and mushrooms.

>>11610890
This, absolutely fucking hyper based.
That's literally all of astronomy (and taxonomy) in a nutshell.

>>11610896
Dwarf planets are not to be called planets for pretty much the same reason that mammals are not to be called derived fishes.

>>11610887
>having a category fixes everything
>except for the category of dwarf planet, which absolutely cannot ever fall under the class of 'planet', so sayeth the lord

>>11610899
But mammals are derived fishes. Cladistically, the clade mammalia is an extension of the clade Pisces.

>>11610904
Reptiles are basically Fish Belters.