/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11404189
It feels real.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qBklIul0Rog

>>11404189
It's an abstraction of your distinctive traits and habits. That makes it at least as real as other abstractions like the number 5 or your center of gravity.

>>11404205
Then if you could prove Abstracta exist then you prove the existence of souls.

>>11404189
But that's the wrong approach.
>assume soul is real
>try to disprove it
>fail
That's science.

>>11404189
You

>>11404445
Yeah but this is for fun to see if you can.

>>11404445
Not being able to disprove something doesn't prove that it exists if it's also impossible to prove the existence.

>>11404492
russell's teapot

>>11404189
*Ahem*
Q U A L I A

>>11404189
Let the "soul" be defined as the encapsulated potential of A. Where a or b decisions divide it throught T for "time".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8j4oaYYKTg

>>11404205
Not quite the same, but nice attempt.
5 is a mean to express a quantity, to describe something that is, by definition, real. Its manifestation can be both abstract AND tangible.
The center of gravity is a consequence of the measurable and, again, tangible matter. It's something that can be observed, replicated and can withstand every kind of demonstration, even by negation.

>>11404205
>abstraction
>real

>>11404189
I read about a woman who had an out of body experience during surgery and saw a shoe on the root, which turned out to be there exactly as she described.

I believe in recincarnations. Once had dream where soldiers stormed my house while i was fighting them my 3 daughters cried in corner and my red haired wife was screaming. They pierced me with bayonet through my shoulder to my heart. Woke up angry as fuck and destroyed my own doors. Mom rushed in and i started to cry.
It was worst experience of my life and it was only a fucking dream.

>>11404189
>We assume the soul is real and attempt to prove it
If it's real, how do we commoditize it?

>>11404189
Read Summa Theologica

>>11404189
Is Elitzur right about Dualism?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXX-_G_9kww
http://cogprints.org/6613/1/Dualism0409.pdf

>>11404189
>We assume the soul is real
Lets not assume such delusion. There is no soul.

>>11406297
maybe you are looking at the soul in a spiritual way instead of an actual scientific way.
what if this soul we all refer to is the information our bodies carry? how much information can a strand of DNA carry? in a cube of DNA of 1.5 meters in all its sides we can store the world entire internet data and still have room for more.
our soul is essencially our information, the information we carry and keep accumulating over the years until we die and all that data gets lost.

>>11406358
>what if this soul we all refer to is the information our bodies carry
Then its not a soul, its DNA. Soul has a definition, one that's immaterial/spiritual, interacting with body, having extra-universal powers yet undetectable.

Careful, you might have accidentally revealed just how little people know something before they decide what to believe and not to believe.
The I is proof the soul exists. It's perfectly conceivable that everyone is conscious, and, not to be anyone. Just as it's perfectly conceivable that you be conscious and not be actually-you. You can imagine a human being who is you, with all your likes and dislikes and everything that is you down to every last molecule, but who is not actually-you. Actually-you are the soul.

Imagine everyone of all time is born. It's easy to imagine not being any of them. Then you're born. It's easy to imagine not being that guy either. This actually-you you imagine not being anyone including you, necessarily exists, i.e. there does not exist a possible world in which you don't (for logic brainlets that might screech that modal necessity somehow implies eternality, beginning to exist does not imply the soul is not eternal). Go ahead and try. Actually-you are the soul.

Just appreciate that reality (including not the universe -- can be thought of as "before" and "outside" the universe) is infinite, and there was not just a 1 out of some very large number, but a 1/infinity chance that you would be born. Yet here you are. Actually-you are the soul.

This would be a hard thing to argue, but I'll get better at it.

Careful, you might have accidentally revealed just how little people know something before they decide what to believe and not to believe.
The I is proof the soul exists. It's perfectly conceivable that everyone is conscious, and, not to be anyone. Just as it's perfectly conceivable that you be conscious and not be actually-you. You can imagine a human being who is you, with all your likes and dislikes and everything that is you down to every last molecule, but who is not actually-you. Actually-you are the soul.

Imagine everyone of all time is born. It's easy to imagine not being any of them. Then you're born. It's easy to imagine not being that guy either. This actually-you you imagine not being anyone including you, necessarily exists, i.e. there does not exist a possible world in which it doesn't (for logic brainlets that might screech that modal necessity somehow implies eternality, beginning to exist does not imply the soul is not eternal). Go ahead and try. Actually-you are the soul.

Just appreciate that reality (including not the universe -- can be thought of as "before" and "outside" the universe) is infinite, and there was not just a 1 out of some very large number, but a 1/infinity chance that you would be born. Yet here you are. Actually-you are the soul.

This would be a hard thing to argue, but I'll get better at it.

>>11404189
'S' is the proposition that the soul is real.
---------------------------
S ⊢ S
---------------------------
S (by assumption)
---------------------------
QED

>>11404189
Experiment design:
>separate twins at birth
>give them exactly the same upbringing
>since genetic factors and environmental factors are controlled, differences in outcome must be attributed to either random variance or some other factor (a soul would be a reasonable explanation IMO)
Now, to find variance of personality traits :
>invent time machine
>raise and re-raise baby to adulthood
>control for environmental factors again
>genetic factor is already controlled
>this time, since it is the same individual, the soul remains constant as well
>measure variance of personality traits with all factors (including soul) constant

>>11406373
hmmm...the only way for me to grasp the concept of a soul is through what I've mentioned.
maybe the electricity coursing through our bodies could be used to track the location of our "soul".

>>11404189
proof:
if the soul weren't real, then the soul would have a value of 0.

therefore, if we calculate the number of soulmates, i.e. pairs of souls, you would divide souls like this
1 soul / 1 soul = 1 soulmate.
N soulmates = soul/soul + soul/soul + soul/soul ... (N terms)

now, if the soul is equal to 0, then the sum takes the form:

N soulmates = 0/0 + 0/0 + 0/0 ....
= N*0/0
= (truth) / (truth) * N * (0/0)
cancel the zeroes
= (truth*N)/truth

now since a soulmate is equal to two souls,

(1 soulmate) = (2 souls) = (truth*N)/(truth)
= N
thus we have
(soul) = N/2 > 0

thus soul is a real number.

thus soul is real.

>>11404189
it's DNA

>>11406297
Then why pop into this thread?
It's just for fun, man. Playing Devil's Advocate in your case, I guess.

>>11406270
thrice based

Souls are the ultimate cope for people who can't accept death

>>11404189
Assume that the soul is real. Therefore the soul is real by supposition QED.

>>11406707
Materialism is the ultimate cope for people who can't accept that the universe had a beginning.

>>11407169
This but unironically

The soul is real.

Proof:
Consciousnes is not an emergent property of a complex nerve structure/brain. People with 100% healthy functioning brains can be completely dead inside.

>>11407255
This is the funniest shit I've read all day.

>>11404189
Play the same AI experiment everyone else does, only under the axiom that an AI can never attain self-awareness and must feed on self-aware entities to grow: you just proved the existence of the divine nature of the soul.

Body and brain is more of an antena rather than conductor. If you catch my drift.

>>11404189
>let's use science to prove something we leave undefined
Ok, fedora.

>>11407918
Man, it's just for fun. Lighten up.

>>11407169
But what was that?

>>11404189
What is the supposed nature of the soul? Is it unique? Is it individual? Or is it shared? Can it be both?

>>11404189
If we assume the soul is real, then there must be certain qualities of ensouled beings that are irreducible to fundamental scientific precepts that explain all other manifestations of physical matter.
Consciousness, awareness, sentience, minds.
Science can explain none of how these aspects of humanity arise.
Checkmate atheists.

>>11404189
Beyond physical shit and beyond time there are tiny little bits of you. You are more than the patterns you use and you can reprogram yourself.

>>11408393
This, we have people unironically thinking that we'll have consciousness transfer and human-like AI in 2050 when so far neuroscience has yet to explain how consciousness is even derived from brain and the possibility that it could be because as you say
>certain qualities of ensouled beings that are irreducible to fundamental scientific precepts that explain all other manifestations of physical matter.
could explain why is anathema to them still.

But as of this point it is just as likely to be true as the case that consciousness is created by the brain somehow, since strong evidence for either position is lacking, and after some time one has to really ponder as to why that is when we are making strong strides and discoveries in all other fields.

>>11404730
If you have 5 apples, there will be slight variations in mass, genetic makeup, etc of each apple. Quantity is an abstraction and not a matter of tangible fact as you are purporting

>>11404189
Only what you can forget is material.

>>11408646
Ok big brain, you can count the number of neutrons, electrons and protons in an atom.

>>11404189
Feel sensations. That's it. The Subject. Whatever that is, it's the soul.

>>11407169
>He still thinks the soul is immaterial