/sci/ - Science & Math

>This is essentially geologic socialism
Your /pol/tardism is showing

>>11261095

That's nice. Do you bring any basis to refute the analogy or was the shit-post the best you had.

>>11261091
>paying to fund autism
Can't we autists have anything to enjoy?

If we don't expand beyond our rock we'll be doomed to stagnation. To expand and multiply is the primary goal of all living beings, it's why people enjoy MMOs and idle clicker games. Expanding our habitats to places outside of Earth all but guarantees our long term survival.
Manned missions to Mars are the ultimate form of long term investment with no short term benefits, in that sense our quest is the ultimate expression of humanity.

>>11261119
>To expand and multiply is the primary goal of all living beings

Thanks, president of life.

will they find second genesis on mars, bros?

>>11261119
>Purposeism
Get a load of this retard

>>11261119
Dude, no offense, but that sounds like something a younger person would say. At this point we're not remotely ready to colonize and the amount of money we'd throw at it would just be pretty useless. Might as well wait like 50 or 100 years and see.

>>11261137
You're welcome

>>11261151
Those that live without a purpose of reproducing and expanding remove themselves from the gene pool, those that do live on.

>>11261153
OP said "Ever. At all.". I was making the case for doing it ever, not necessarily doing it right now

>>11261091
I don’t understand why you post here.
You have nothing to contribute. You are empty, useless.
Without the welfare state you probably wouldn’t even exist, but here we are, living in the same society as your waste of ass space.
Mars is a stepping stone to the rest of the universe. Life on Mars is a proof of concept and a testing ground for the colonisation of the rest of the galaxy.
You canot understand this, but that’s ok because you can play video games and shut your hotdog hole till you extinguish.

>>11261119

>If we don't expand beyond our rock

I guess it depends on what you mean by "our".

>>11261091
>I don't understand why we need any more missions to Mars. Ever. At all.
>I don't understand why people work so hard! I mean, we can just eat junk food, smoke week and leech off the welfare state until we're 90!

Anon, we humans are explorers. We do hard stuff to challenge ourselves. We do it because we can. That's why. And even if you think there's nothing there, at least appreciate the technological boom that the rocketry engineering is giving us.

>>11261210
Our species, or even broader still, intelligent life. If we establish permanent settlements across multiple bodies, we're pretty much all but guaranteed to survive any one extinction event, so we'll be able to develop for hundreds, thousands, even millions of years. If that happens, Jews or Americans or East Asians will not exist 10,000 years from now in any meaningful sense

>>11261153
We are ready. We have the technology to head out and keep teams of people alive in space for long periods. You just have to accept that a bunch of colonists will die setting things up.

>>11261091
Only a small fraction of public money goes into that.
Look at the numbers.

>>11261221
>we're pretty much all but guaranteed to survive
>we

There it is again. I don't want to go off topic. I just think that a term like "we" assumes a mutual sense of inclusion that, while recently repeated in a particular echo chamber orchestrated by one group only to apply to one specific other, has never really been evidenced in nature or history except in oppressive ways.

I dont mean to delve into particulars. I am just using this as an example that a lot more cooperation or even consideration is implied than really has ever been proven to exist. If such a basic difference in perspective cant be resolved, I dont suspect undertakings that cost billions of dollars printed or taken by law in taxes is going to fare well. The Tower of Babel is a useful parable here, or put more bluntly, "too many cooks spoil the broth".

That "meaningful sense" you alluded to, by definition, has meaning. All the practical application of space technology now and past has fallen into agendas of rivalry and supremacy.

I agree it is sad that some people believe the way to prolong humanity on Earth is to have less of it. Even worse, they may be correct, and they have a sublimely eerie track record of successful intuition on the nature of ranching other humans.

It would take some force to persuade humans to want to work in such conditions in scale when the novelty wears off. That force may come in the form of terror, fear, shame or outright orbital imprisonment where survival is kept at stake; ie slavery. And lets not forget that colonization, if even desirable, is based wholly on the concept of colonialism. And that never seems to work out very well. Humans tend to imagine governments of scale that always just exceed their reach. And god help us, those are the ones we consider the most successful...

>>11261255


... I have no doubts about our technological ability. The human factor is a bit different. We are literally talking about the dreams of apes. Whatever miseries we have here, we export out there. What one person calls salvation and exploration may be the exploitation and plunder of the many. Our telecommuncation based digital currency as it is creates a kill-switch for modern societies.

I have to ask, what is the obligation of the one to suffer for the imagination of many

>>11261247
>We are ready.
no.

>>11261255
>>11261257
If in 150 years there's a settlement on Mars populated exclusively by the Chinese I would still consider it a "we" much like "we" went to the moon or "we" cured polio. I wholly expect there to be factions in whatever endeavor we pursue, logistically speaking the further the species expands the harder it would be to even communicate let alone administer an interplanetary/interstellar government. There may even be wars and death tolls that could make the current population on Earth seem like a quaint hamlet.

But as already pointed out in this thread, we are explorers and conquerors. Reaching the stars is just another step in the endless grind that all living beings endure. We almost certainly won't be unified, but colonization of the new world wasn't unified either. Unspeakable horrors may await us, but given the choice between life and no life, I choose life every time, and most people do too. Australia started out as a penal colony and today is one of the most developed and safest countries in the world. Maybe there will indeed be entire planets enslaved with countless souls existing in endless torture, or maybe not. Maybe that slavery would end just like it has in most of the world today. The important thing is we try.

>>11261253

An entirely true and valid point.

Its the premise that disturbs me. Since day one, they were telling us that we would be living in space soon. The science fiction fantasy of the 50's spoke of us living in the stars by the nineties. By the 80's it was going to happen in the next century.

The next century is here and the only thing all this research produced was ways to accelerate consumerism, transmit propaganda and take better aim on foreign adversaries.

And now we are hearing the same beat in a new tune: "The Earth will become uninhabitable". They intend to make Mars a way-station to nowhere. At some point, they will need labor. And they will do the same as they do to soldiers and cosmonauts now: treat them like lab monkeys and mules while calling them heroes.

Any place they build, they control. Its theirs. They dont intend to share it. And what does that say about their intentions towards the people of Earth? Exploration eventually becomes militarized. It will be orbiting trailer parks for labor and fortresses for elites. And if they know all the value is on the planet, how does one expect them to treat the people on it?

They are literally going to be building higher ground. And higher ground has implications that are not good for people below.

I'm struggling to remember any time in history a technologically advanced group met a primitive group and actually followed through with the Hollywood notion of "we come in peace". My point is that human history suggests they aren't leaving for the stars, they are taking positions. Thats just how these things go. If Russia or China had supremacy of orbit, the ability to wreck our satellite systems with impunity and force us into 19th century economies to manipulate, what reasonable person would believe they wouldn't.

noooo every1 is gonna b living in space in just a few years, i know because hollywood jew moves and woke social media personalities told me so.

>>11261274

True, but to try is not entirely voluntary; I consider it an aspect of humanity, not so much an ennobled trait. We always try to do things or go places that are not easy. It would be more flattering if it weren't built into essentially most species to end up some place other than where they started by a combination of luck and effort that dismisses all who fail. Humans especially create the perception of a problem out of random settings just to have something to solve in their spare time when such a luxury occurs. So the products of restless boredom dont strike me with the same glamor.

We would be doing this if there were no Coronal Mass Ejection coming, no cyclical climate shifts, no asteroids. So we dont need excuses to justify what we were going to attempt anyways.

Im just saying that we will never see the edge of the horizon. For the most part, none of this has any reasonable basis to expect success. Most likely, the more ambitious of our species will make a mess of the atmosphere inevitably and reduce civilization into a recurring cycle of huts and castles, dragging litter through solar orbit, and there will be a new word for 'pre-historic' every quarter million years.

Its fun to imagine, I guess. I just feel sad for the inevitable misery its sure to cause primitives left trying to survive one mess to the next who, ironically, will keep inheriting dominion by sheer desperate survival over their ambitious peers like pets that survive their owners in wars and catastrophes.

Its all inevitable. I guess Im just perturbed by the number of people who should know better and dont seem to. People still believe that there will be cities on Mars and starships to Alpha Centauri. Yet never stop to consider that Mars is literally the uninhabitable planet, not the one they are fleeing, and that if airlines and cruise ships are insufferable moving prisons now, what the hell would you expect trying to cross 25 trillion miles to the next star?

>>11261279
>>11261302

are you 12?

>>11261104
>refuting an analogy
lmao

So my choices are:


Metal box on desert planet
Floating metal box with view of Earth
Floating metal box with no view of anything ever again besides the same stars I ignore now.

Further, life in metal box means breathing a lifetime of recycled farts, drinking recycled piss, eating fuck-knows-what, never feeling gravity as my body withers, dodging killer supersonic pebbles, and the only break I get from electric lighting is to see the flash-freezing black void around me that will blow me up and suffocate me from something as simple as a leak or flying pebble.

Neat. Life in space sounds so cozy.

Or I could just stay where theres at least the chance of food, water, heat and sunshine. And if that ever fails, my escape from an inhospitable planet is either another drastically more inhospitable planet or a metal box lacking the amenities of most prisons.

How fucking retarded do I have to be to accept this idea of space being glamorous? Christ, it makes Detroit sound like paradise. You people are high on science-fiction. Operative word being FICTION.

Post Lives Saved Cryptically On Internet

>>11261202
And so what? Why should I care about that, what good does it do me?

>>11261091
Humans need an inhospitable frontier to tame or they stagnate and degenerate, Northern regions and Ice Ages served this purpose in the past. Space will be the frontier for modern technological civilization.

>>11261427
>>11261255
i find it amazing that someone spouting this "each man for himself" and "me me me" nonsense is whining about how others spend their money on space

durp

>>11261443
I could not care less what other people spend on space and I never implied anything each man for himself stuff you pulled out your ass

>>11261302
woah thats fuckign cool looking landscape

He’s going after the Hells Angels!

>>11261302
This is the most pre teen post I have ever read on this site.

>>11261407
Its ok anon, not everyone can express the best of humanities traits.

>>11261470
it's literally all you're blathering about hurr hurr mutual sense of inclusion

fuck off

Know someone who doctored an accident report?

>>11261091
>Pretty photos and puzzles for math enthusiasts does not make a benefit for mankind.
Neither would cuisine, landscape gardening, symphony orchestras, and epic poetry, if all of mankind had the same tastes as pigs, Orwellian apparatchiks, serial rapists, or for that matter think-tank experts in propaganda technique.

I’m so happy retarded anti science types like you will never actually be in charge of anything
Get over it fag we’re going to space and there’s nothing you can do to stop it lmao fucking peasant

>>11261091
>I don't understand
Ok

>>11261255
>"too many cooks spoil the broth".
If we go to mars we get another pot of soup.

>>11261302
Mars isn't the next stop to the next star. Mars is the next stop to the outer solar system. Mars will give us access to the vast resources within our own solar system, as we learn to live in space. Hundreds, maybe thousands of years from now, human technology might advance to sufficient levels where traveling to other star systems takes less than a lifetime, or even shorter.
Mars is really just a first step towards creating a space fairing civilization.
The moon will probably also be extremely economically important to earth. Objects manufactured on the moon could be delivered to earth, or anywhere else in the solar system with mass drivers.

>>11261302
Sadly this individual is likely correct.

>>11261104
>refute the analogy
You've thoroughly demonstrated that you don't know what socialism is - especially considering a socialist state has never existed on Earth - and that you obviously can't tell the difference between Communism, a command economy, and socialism, and there's no need to refute anything.
You, unsurprisingly, are criticizing socialism on the basis that things which are not and were never socialism happened a certain way.

You're more or less right, otherwise, about Mars.

>>11261838
Not really

I've been arguing for ages space exploration and its military daddy behemoth are the reason we can't have nice things like ubi or healthcare.

>>11261091
That's a beautiful image of Mars.

But yeah, fuck all that in the OP. We need to go out and start colonizing Mars, as well as the stars in general. It's what's best for humanity, not only from a survival perspective, but also from an economical one as well. There are so many resources out in space that we could feasibly become a post-scarcity civilization after all the necessary transport and infrastructure is in place to support it. We don't even know what civilization will look like by then. Maybe even a version of communism that's actually stable and works without degenerating into a dystopian dictatorship.

>>11261091
So what happens when Earth becomes unsustainably overpopulated?

>>11261977
Then the population will die down to sustainable levels.

>>11261091
The CONSUUUUUUUUMERS need a fairy tale to believe in that rationalizes their bloated, earth destroying lifestyles.

>>11262072
Sounds like fun

>>11261576
I'm not the other guy you think I am, faggot.

>>11261427
You are irrelevant to everyone but yourself and your immediate vicinity. If you do not contribute your bloodline will wither away and die on this one planet while the go-getters are exploring the cosmos. The better question is what good can YOU provide to everyone?

>>11262317
It's pretty ironic that this primitive attitude will be the primary cause of humanity's early extinction.

You are essentially no better than bacteria, you multiply exponentially until your progeny drowns in its own waste.

>>11262348
The only way to avoid drowning in our waste is to leave this planet, we're shitting where we eat and it's not infinitely sustainable.

Also, you and I have the same bacteria instincts, welcome to the Petri dish friend

>>11262356
>leave this planet
you know this isn't possible (at least not yet),
the logical thing to do is to stop stuffing yourself and producing so much shit (at least until it really is possible to leave the planet), yet you continue to do so.

Why?

>>11261210
haha le epic happy merchant meme haha /pol/turd thread haha

It's basically just to say we did and have a colony on mars
Isn't there also signs of water having existed in the past on mars?

>>11262362
This somehow turned into a conversation about my consumption habits, let me steer you back on topic.
OP said Mars colonization is a dead end, and more broadly we are destined to stay on Earth forever. My initial and only point is that will lead us to stagnation and it is in every fiber of every living being to spread and procreate, because those that didn't do that have long been extinguished. It is just our natural next step to go forth and populate the stars, either in 10 years or 1000.

>>11262388
What a load of complete and absolute horse shit.
Every enduring species on this planet found a balance with its environment.
You think you're so fucking clever, yet dinosaurs with wallnut sized brains outlasted humans by millions of years because of arrogant, bloated CONSUUUUUUUMERS like yourself.

>>11262396
Humans aren't extinct so I'm not sure what you're talking about there. Dinosaurs are gone while our ancestors from the dinosaur era lived on and now here we are. In a million years you'll end up as just another dead end dinosaur who naysayed on an imageboard while other members of the species worked on exporting us to the rest of the galaxy.

>>11261091

It isn't what space can provide, but what we can make of space.

When was the last time you saw the current nation states allow a new nation state to com into existance? Sealand, and that mass of plastic bottles in the Gulf of Mexico were taken by local governments.

Unless you go to space, you'll never be free. Anyone who opposes space colonization opposes libertarianism and wants to bind humanity to their vision of our future, instead of letting each member of humanity evolve according to their own path. The notion of humans evolving into something that lacks their ape-like emotions and has it's own genetic reality horrifies them, because they believe themselves to be their brothers' keeper.

>>11262422
may I ask what your area of expertise is?

>>11262422
>>11262430
I am guessing its business, finance, politics, economics, sociology, psychology, theology or possibly coding.

Few people with a background in real science or engineering are as deluded as you

>>11262422>>11262388
>>11262356>>11262317

haha what a fuckin psycho. is epstein still alive?

>>11262446
Is that all you have to contribute? I was expecting more. I don't even remember what point you're trying to make here, except maybe to conserve your consumption until we can leave the planet, which I agree with.

>>11262462
glad you agree with that.
anyway, what is your area of expertise? id like to know what kind of person believes in these things.

I got a degree in astrophysics.

>>11262370
Yes and it's also been discovered that there's a very, very high possibility of water actually existing beneath the surface in some areas of Mars as well. There's also frozen ice too.

>>11262362

stagnation does not lead to advancement.

BEHOLD THE FOLLY OF MAN!
HE HAS TURNED HIS HOME PLANET INTO A DESOLATE WASTREL OF ECOLOGICAL RUIN AND ENVIRONMENTAL GRAVE
A BARREN HELLSCAPE OF STERILE EXTINCTION

>whatever shall we do?

EVERYONE- WE MUST SPEND EVERY LAST DIME ON SAVING MARS!

I MEAN BUILDING MARS!

t. every lib eco-nut online today

These are the same people who think they are godlike heroes for pouring billions into trying to create civilization in Africa but can seem to get interested in Baltimore.

I'm looking at you, Bill Gates.

Seriously. He's been building his own Jonestown over there for quite some years. For some reason, he isn't hot about giving it a lot of publicity.

So yeah, the solution to some smog on Earth's extant ecosystem and inevitable climate changes is to trying to build a planet out of barren hunk of shit that cant even hold an atmosphere. And a government is going to do this, no less, because they care about humanity and are so competent and frugal in central planning.

What we need is a leader who has ambitions for space. A visionary, a man who can cut through red tape. Someone with a sense for real estate development.

BUT WHO

WHO COULD IT BE? WHAT HERO WILL ANSWER THE CALL FOR MANKIND?

WHO, I SAY

>>11263896
please go check a dictionary for what wastrel means

>>11263905

Or I could turn off spellcheck.

>wasteland

Among other errors. I think you got it.

Good job contributing to the topic though. Maybe you could post some recommendations on punctuation.

>>11262429

But theres nothing to oppose. A libertarian, nor group of them (if there is such a thing) is not going to be able to make anything out of space. Its simply never going to be economically feasible.

And I struggle to grasp how being confined to a metal box that any government can destroy with a well aimed rock is 'freedom'.

Last I heard, the Chinese are developing a military satellite robot that has the sole purpose of destroying other satellites. If thats how tense the real estate up there now is...

Look at 'Jihad'. What is it, really. It was an inevitability. Take away the cultural religious tones and interpretations. What you have is the inevitable meeting of humanity's losers using modern technology to attack high civilization. In essence, another contemporary siege by barbarians. This isn't to make judgments on the aggressors. Im simply saying a lot of poor young men looking for glory and meaning and finding no chance of catching up to civilization and realizing the deck was so stacked against them that direct oppression was inevitable took it upon themselves to start tearing down the assets of their opponents. Where they came from or what they worshiped was irrelevant because you had all the ingredients for that inevitability. A societal rage of poor humans in a backwards culture left behind being targeted for eternal poverty by exclusion or corruption, and easy access to their opponents technology to attack with.

My point is this will happen again And the next "Jihad" will be about 22,000 miles above you the moment some outfit begins smuggling any device to vandalize our telecoms off the planet. And it gets worse:

>>11262429

But theres nothing to oppose. A libertarian, nor group of them (if there is such a thing) is not going to be able to make anything out of space. Its simply never going to be economically feasible.

And I struggle to grasp how being confined to a metal box that any government can destroy with a well aimed rock is 'freedom'.

Last I heard, the Chinese are developing a military satellite robot that has the sole purpose of destroying other satellites. If thats how tense the real estate up there now is...

Look at 'Jihad'. What is it, really. It was an inevitability. Take away the cultural religious tones and interpretations. What you have is the inevitable meeting of humanity's losers using modern technology to attack high civilization. In essence, another contemporary siege by barbarians. This isn't to make judgments on the aggressors. Im simply saying a lot of poor young men looking for glory and meaning and finding no chance of catching up to civilization and realizing the deck was so stacked against them that direct oppression was inevitable took it upon themselves to start tearing down the assets of their opponents. Where they came from or what they worshiped was irrelevant because you had all the ingredients for that inevitability. A societal rage of poor humans in a backwards culture left behind being targeted for eternal poverty by exclusion or corruption, and easy access to their opponents technology to attack with.

My point is this will happen again And the next "Jihad" will be about 22,000 miles above you the moment some outfit begins smuggling any device to vandalize our telecoms off the planet. And it gets worse:

>>11263976

...
One thing we know about survivalists is that they await chaos and ruin as a chance to gain local power. But elites are survivalists too, and unlike some backwater hayseed with a basement full of guns, elites can *cause* the very chaos they need to advance. Its not a matter of betting there will be a disaster, its outright creating it. Its not that they play the odds, some will make the odds themselves.

Meaning the most profit isnt on waiting for calamity, but causing it. Its the oldest trick in their book: "If you wanna make a fortune selling lumber, start setting fires." So if a Coronal Mass Ejection is taking too long, I can create other disasters in orbit.

Remember, if my goal is taking possession of large swathes of the best real estate in the solar system, Earth, then I might want to control the population by simply removing large parts of it. Famine is the oldest genocide there is, and I can cause it just by destroying the finance system relayed in orbit. After all, only common people depend on money as wealth; the elite know the value is in resources themselves. Knock out telecoms, there goes finance, payment deadlines, freight distributors dont get paid, stores get raided, chaos in the streets erupts and governments can do fuckall about it.

They are building a weapon against mankind in space as we speak, a kill switch. It is nothing more or less sinister than dependence on a system of hardware we cannot physically reach. Most will seek to protect it for their own profit agendas.

But not all. And its that minority we have to be very concerned about.

>>11261119
the closest habitable planet is 4 light years away

>>11261091
>>11261255
>>11261257
>>11261279
>>11261302
>>11263896
>>11263902

Why is OP’s English so weird? I don’t often see people speaking like him. Sorry I may be just a dumb ESL but I can’t be the only person having trouble understanding what he’s trying to say... r-right?

just sayin'

>>11261841
based and crimsonpilled

I think one could spend their life trying to convey to /sci/ what a god-awful sentence life in space actually is and no one would listen, insisting its Star Trek. It would only change if you told them they _had_ to do it.

Basically the difference between spending years in solitary confinement in prison and living in space just comes down to how smug you feel about it. It doesn't wear off until they grow up and realize no one envies them. At which point the same juvenile self-abuse for attention converts to them telling you what martyrs they are.

Its a bit like people who sign up to get shot at in foreign countries believing they are heroes then complain when they come home missing a limb for some idiot war and expect applause. Or the same breed that dont realize "motorcycle accident" is an oxymoron and get weepy about people who choose to speed along on half the wheels and none of the protection and get splattered.

All these adventurous would-be astronauts wont get it until the cold dark silent confinement sets in, and once they realize they dont remember what actual food tastes like, at which point maybe, just maybe, they will look in the mirror and hear their reflection ask just what the fuck are they doing with their life.

Christopher Columbus had crew-members. No one remembers a single one of them. The expectation of glory is the reward for imbeciles. Like every sailor who boasts life on the sea and then can't wait for shore leave. Even animals have the sense to avoid such a trap.

>>11264157
Fuck off, I want to be a space pirate.

>>11264157
you could also /a/ or /jp/ and tell them weebshit is shit, or you could go to /mlp/ or /trash/ and tell them thinking cartoon animals are sexy is degenerate, or you could go to to /s/ or /hc/ and tell them porn is bad

>>11261091
You seem to be dead inside; at the very least your sense of adventure is.

>>11261204
>Life on Mars is a proof of concept and a testing ground for the colonisation of the rest of the galaxy.
Delusional. Look at our place, our finite resources the distances involved. You are feeling premature optimism, build a self-contained society on Earth before leaving matter unreachable for the whole population of Earth in space. Do that, then work out human life-suspension and space drive not replying on fossil fuels.

THEN you are allowed to talk, otherwise go back to sci-fi. The Dunning-Krueger effect is real with you smart science fanbois...

>>11264170
Those things are enjoyable to them.

>>11262072
Get your testosterone levels checked son

>>11264182

>>11261202
You do not “live on” by reproducing. Some genes that you have get passed on, big whoop.

>>11265083
that dude believes in social darwinism, capitalism, and consumerism melded with some form of evangelism. he's a real sicko.

>>11261214
>>11261119

Im with these two anons.

We dont get it now and find the idea taboo, but our future will require a whole lot of genetic engineering and creation of whole new space faring sub species of man.
We need to establish a colony to just breed space farers. We need many variants of humans if we are to travel away from our exploding sun.

In the far far future, if the humanity doesnt colonise hospitable far away worlds, it will mostly be bound to huge space habitats , that are slowly backing away from our growing sun, always staying in the goldilocks zone, slowly finding a way to survive the eventual super nova, and then going in closer to feed energy of the remnants.

So i also believe this, we will never manage to go far away from our starting position, we will just kinda meander around and scrap by.

>>11265115

>>11261314

not an argument

>>11261091
Because it is awesome!
If we, as the human race, don't plan anything ultra cool for the future, what point is there in existing? I don't want to live a life whose point is only to live and to die. I want my life to be a contribute to the existence and PROGRESS of mankind. Humanity as one should start making a point or two for its own existence, such as understanding the universe and expanding in it. And if we are not able to, we will state that the point of our current existence is to keep the human race alive and prosperous, so that other humans will find a reason for our being in the future.

>>11261091
OP’s post contains multiple lies. Do not bump this thread, don’t respond to it or anyone in it. Let shitposters die.

itt: a whole lotta white people who think the rest of world thinks like they do

>>11265215
>Chinese, Indians, and Africans have no interest in colonizing space
>Actually believing this

>>11265202

This universe you feel such a connection to has ordained only one reason for living: to keep from being dead. Anything else is something people make up in their head.

>>11265219

I never said white have a monopoly on grandiose intellectual masturbation and fantasy. It just seems the most rampant there.


But ok. We can pretend that people shitting in fields, living in huts and farming mud have an equal distribution of science fiction dreamers as whites do if it makes you happy.

>>11265232
>We can pretend that people shitting in fields, living in huts and farming mud have an equal distribution of science fiction dreamers as whites do if it makes you happy.

Economic conditions in Africa, India, and China are all improving. Give them some time to catch up and we can all zoom around Saturn like flies

Lets make it simple:

Who wants to live in Antarctica?
Ok, who wants to live in Antarctica with no air?
Ok who wants to live in Antarctica with no air and you have to spend every last dime you have, will ever make as well as every dime you, your family, friends, neighbors and entire city will ever make for the next three generations just so you can get halfway there before figuring out where to set up camp?

Oh and when you get there, not only is there nothing to do but contemplate why you've spent every resource you have to make survival more difficult than less, but there never will be anything because 99% of the world doesn't envy you enough to want to share your situation, so no one is coming to visit or even pass by because with nothing to do, there is nowhere nearby anyone would go. And if even if there was, there would be no reason to stop because you cant produce anything of value without 300 times the overhead of making it on Earth.

This planet regularly goes to war over oil. There is probably one oil gusher after another in Antarctica, and mankind STILL has no interest in finding them WITHOUT even needing space travel to get there.

If any of you stopped reading halfway through to write a check for air-fare and empty your account for provisions to live in a frozen desert, this doesn't apply to you. But the rest of you are talking out your ass. If the burden of survival was actually put upon you to dedicate your life to, you would naturally run away screaming for escape from prison and be right to do it.

Conversely you wouldn't, and are a good example of why intelligence and the common sense to survive are not necessarily found in the same place, and why smart people aren't typically the best survivors while tribes that can barely understand farming continue to exist.

>>11261302

What the fuck is this? Actual creative intelligence on /sci/? HOW DARE YOU ATTEMPT TO RAISE THE AVERAGE POST IQ !!!!

As an average retard I am deeply offended.

If I dropped a freight shipping container full of gold and investment grade diamonds on Mars right now and told the worlds wealthiest people it was theirs if they can get it, none of them would be interested.

Its not that this board doesnt understand economics. They just don't accept them. Someone else is supposed to pay all the R&D for these pointless adventures with no profit motive so /sci/ can go "zoom around" to take pictures and cosplay as Capt. Picard.

In /sci/'s mind, they would blast off, take a few days to reach the moons of Jupiter, stay in a hotel, ski on Titan and buy souvenirs in the gift shop before sipping hot cocoa and flying back the next day with selfies on Instagram.

It would never occur to them that in reality, you would be taking off from work for years to spend on a spaceliner that costs a fortune and still is run like a floating prison barge with equal accommodations with nowhere to land because why the fuck would anyone invest to build on hellscapes, and then over a year to get back with little more than a portal view of some barren rocks.

No, for /sci/, space exploration is a vacation package in Iceland where they get to RV around Deimos playing putt-putt around animatronic Xenusians and scarfing down funnelcakes while doing Tequila shots next to Gusev Crater. We can't even get past LEO without million dollar fuck ups and /sci/ is already treating this imbecilic ambition like its spring break in Cancun.

>>11265322

I'm sorry. I promise I can be dumber if I try.

>>11265342

Listen bud, you are doing it again. Spreading reality. That's heresy in these parts. If there were any trees left to chop down we would immediately burn you at the stake. Excuse me for a moment while I do a 3-print of a fake tree from this cellulose composite paste.

There! I think I have frightened Mr Oh-so-grim-and-nasty away. Right then, let's discuss living under gigantic glass domes and shagging non-stop with our adoring and perfectly endowed Martian wives while the robots do all the work.

>>11265371
>If there were any trees left to chop down

Im still laughing and trying to type this

>>11265342
>If I dropped a freight shipping container full of gold and investment grade diamonds on Mars right now and told the worlds wealthiest people it was theirs if they can get it, none of them would be interested.

Assuming a shipping container with a volume of 39 cubic meters, that’s over 30 billion dollars worth of gold. This dwarfs the cost of prior Mars missions and could conceivably be economical to recover. If you include diamonds in the equation, the worth balloons. Funny that your own analogy fails.

>>11265342
>It would never occur to them that in reality, you would be taking off from work for years to spend on a spaceliner that costs a fortune and still is run like a floating prison barge with equal accommodations with nowhere to land because why the fuck would anyone invest to build on hellscapes, and then over a year to get back with little more than a portal view of some barren rocks.

Fully aware of the conditions. Still don’t care. Would do it anyway because it’s cool. You’re dead inside or something.

>>11265342
>for /sci/
you're confusing /sci/ with billionaires such as Elon Musk, Richard Branson, and Jeff Bezos.

These guys are fucking billionaires man, which means they can spend billions squandering resources on their retarded fanstasies while people on Earth toil their whole lives in carcinogenic factories only to starve to death at age 45. It's not really a joke.

>>11265427
>while people on Earth toil their whole lives in carcinogenic factories only to starve to death at age 45.

Do you actually think this happens to anyone? Has nihilism and depression caused you to become this delusional?

>>11265434

>>11265439
??
Average life expectancy in China is only two years behind the US.

>>11265434
if it happens to anyone at all then Elon Musk is a fucking faggot

>>11265392

>because it’s cool.

Because, sweetie, you have never accumulated any wealth or resources of significance over a period of years. In your little fantasy its always someone else who has provided the materials, you are just Captain Space-Chucklefuck being a comic book hero. Furthermore you have no concept what the realities of interstellar space travel would be like. In your fantasy you just live on the bridge surrounded by big titted bitches wearing short skirts, and you spend free time shooting hoops in a rec room the size of a school gym, and you never have to shit, the girls never fart, ever.

In reality you would be crying for mommy and wetting the harnessed sleeping sack before you got past the moon. Much to the annoyance of your crewmates who have to use the same sack on their sleep shift.

>>11265445
How?
Why?
Are you one of those pseudo-communists who think everyone should abandon all luxuries and immediately work to better the life of some workers in some other country? How are they gonna do that? Columbus was a real faggot for going to America when a farmer in East Prussia had bronchitis. You’re insane my dude

>>11265441

There are literally dozens of people in China. Dozens. Although you're right. Most have always eaten very well and if anyone is a picture of health for comparison, it would be the Americans.

Be right back, gotta re-pack this bowl.

>>11265451
>Because, sweetie, you have never accumulated any wealth or resources of significance over a period of years.

Wrong

> In your little fantasy its always someone else who has provided the materials,

Wrong

> you are just Captain Space-Chucklefuck being a comic book hero.

Wrong

> Furthermore you have no concept what the realities of interstellar space travel would be like.

Wrong

> In your fantasy you just live on the bridge surrounded by big titted bitches wearing short skirts

Wrong

> and you spend free time shooting hoops in a rec room the size of a school gym

Wrong

>and you never have to shit, the girls never fart, ever.

Wrong

> In reality you would be crying for mommy and wetting the harnessed sleeping sack before you got past the moon.

Wrong
Ever been in prison before?

>>11265451
>you spend free time shooting hoops in a rec room the size of a school gym

Or the Holodeck.

>>11265455
>Although you're right. Most have always eaten very well and if anyone is a picture of health for comparison, it would be the Americans.

They usually don’t die at 45, and China actually has one of the lowest poverty rates in the world. You make the world out to be worse than it is.

>>11261091
If space travel between planets becomes viable a lack of resources is the least of the difficulties involved. Asteroids have tremendous amounts of natural resources.

>>11265453
>How?
>Why?
Because if you weren't a fucking retarded megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur, you'd realize that your dream of ruling an intergalactic techno empire is a fantasy held by austistic acne-covered anime enthusiasts.

It less dangerous if you were just a basic run-of-the-mill bloated consumer like all the rest of them. Bloated consumers with delusions of grandeur are capable of wasting many times more resources.

>>11265471
>Because if you weren't a fucking retarded megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur, you'd realize that your dream of ruling an intergalactic techno empire is a fantasy held by austistic acne-covered anime enthusiasts.

Really cool Strawman, but what does it have to do with Elon Musk being a faggot because some guy somewhere got cancer at a factory?

>>11265476
Figure it out for yourself, idiot.
Here's a clue. Everything is connected.

>>11265471
Oh no, not the resouwces, not the precious fuzz wuzzy resouwces! God you're a clueless faggot, how little self awareness do you have to have to actually feel obligation and concern when it comes to other people's consumption?

>>11265271
>This planet regularly goes to war over oil. There is probably one oil gusher after another in Antarctica, and mankind STILL has no interest in finding them WITHOUT even needing space travel to get there.
https://www.asoc.org/explore/blog/1184-the-antarctic-oil-myth

Try reading a scientific source sometime instead of CNN.

>>11265484
> Figure it out for yourself, idiot.

Can you please help me with it? I’m having trouble seeing how Elon Musk shouldn’t be trying to put people on Mars because some guy somewhere has it tough. I guess we’re both faggots because at some point we decided to eat a burger while Mbuto in Benin ate a grain of rice. Be honest and admit you’re just a troll.

>>11265485
Take an economics course.
Fat boy's existence raises the price of food for everyone else.
Can you figure out how that works? Supply and demand. It's super complicated concept, if you're fuckign retarded.

>>11261095
>>11261091
>geological
>Mars
it pains how dumb this board has become

>>11265496
> Fat boy's existence raises the price of food for everyone else.

Cease using all luxuries whatsoever and live in the forest off of beetles.

>>11265496
see>>11265496

getting seriously tired of trying to get people to understand basic shit that they simply do not want to understand

>>11265504
or we could put fat boy on a diet
that would be for the common good, and who knows many one day fat boy would even find enlightenment and thank us for it

>>11265496
t. clearly doesn't know the first thing about economics

it's funny how all these retarded leftist types want to save the world by reducing quality of life and starving people, and have never once in history been responsible for a single positive change, ever. Meanwhile actually intelligent people instead invent ways to improve efficiency and production instead, they are the business people the prior type hates. Anon here is basically Pol-Pot, just without the charisma, or leadership, or power. Or maybe he's that ugly dutch girl, Greta something or other, but even she has Jewish media conglomerates to shill for her. Anon here? He does it for free.

>>11265509
>or we could put fat boy on a diet

Or we could force you to stop using all luxuries whatsoever and live in the woods off of beetles. This would save more resources than simply dieting some fat guy. Better idea; let’s completely dismantle society, have billions starve to death, and return to the Hunter-gatherer stage.

We won’t because no one gives a shit about your contradictory moral aggrandizing. We will keep using resources and nothing you say or do will stop anyone. You lose. So sad.

>>11261091
stop making these threads you sperg

>>11265512
>fucking leftist want everyone to starve
>jewish media
>fucking greta
>intelligent people invent ways to consume
>consume consume CONSUME

supply

demand

google it.

i am fuckin laughin LULZ

>>11265515
>We will keep using resources
>TO INFINITY AND BEYOND

lulz. fuck man Team Consume is fucking stooooooooopid lol

>>11265520
Why are you still wasting resources by shitposting on 4Chan? Get off the Internet, and go be an ascetic in the Himalayas. Everything you say and do here or anywhere else in society will be a contradiction of your retarded ideas so get out of it and be an ascetic who consumes no resources and starves to death.

>>11265523
>Using up limited resources using the internet and an internet-connected device
>Cries about people using resources

>>11265526
>Why are you still wasting resources by shitposting on 4Chan?

I enjoy using facts and logic to trigger retarded CONSUUUUUUUMERS that need to believe in fantasies like mars colonization to rationalize their bloated lifestyles. I enjoy it.

I am grinning ear to ear right now. LOL

>>11265534
>I’m using up limited resources because I find it enjoyable to do so
>It’s bad if you do the same

Hmm.

>>11265532
>YOU NEED TO EAT TOO
>HOW DARE YOU YOU HYPOCRITE (spits food bits)
>NOM NOM NOM

Oooooo im laughin
>BLURRRRRPP FART

>>11265512

>>11265546
>No I’m not a hypocrite because uh memes

You can only prove yourself to behave consistently with your positions by ceasing to post.

>>11265566
ya I can see how the world would be black and white to a fucking retard like you
like how a fatty says to himself before scarfing down 6 double bacon cheese burgers
>to eat or not to eat, that is the question
if I do not eat these 6 double bacon cheeseburgers I will surely die

>>11265577
>No I’m not a hypocrite because uh memes

You can only prove yourself to behave consistently with your positions by ceasing to post.

>>11265566
it does not occur to the fatty that he is capable of eating only 1 of the 6 double bacon cheese burgers

this is because, much like you, the fatty is very stoooooooooopid

>>11265580
>No I’m not a hypocrite because uh memes

You can only prove yourself to behave consistently with your positions by ceasing to post.

As long as the topic is cheeseburgers, I'm posting. The rest yall can do what you want.

All the cheeseburgers are on Earth. They don't even have ketchup on Mars.

Suddenly this becomes a much easier choice.

>>11261091
>I don't understand why we need any more missions to Mars.
It's a white person thing.
You really wouldn't understand. That's ok, honestly. Just let us do our own thing in space.

>>11265607
I think I would have been a much happier person if I had not discovered forums etc. The trolling of the retards is fun, but overall I think the toll of having full knowledge of just how obscenely obtuse and retarded the average person is has been hard on my mental health.

>>11265613

>It's a white person thing.

So was South Africa.
And Rhodesia.
And Detroit.
And Baltimore.
And, for that matter, Europe.

Trust me. This story doesn't end well. In 2100, we have a city on Mars. In 2150, its central bank has managed to collect trillions in debt. By 2200, the mayor of New Somalia has won the Martian presidency on a platform of anti-Earthling apartheid, and by 2206 the entire colony has become a domed Haiti because Earthlings want to prove how compassionate they are.

In 2300, the entire planet is annexed by Puerto Rico as collateral for loans.

>>11265627


Try the Baconater. Trust me, you'll feel better. I know I do.

>>11261431
Nah, climate will continue to serve its purpose and we’ll be stuck on this rock until the end of time

>>11265642
Eugenics, my friends.

Future civilizations will consist of people literally designed to be able to contribute to society, and (hopefully) be majority homogeneous. Or, we all die trying and only white / asian people remain to rebuild anything. Either way I guess.

>>11264199
well my niggerly luddite friend, space is enjoyable to us

>>11265648

Absolutely agree with this. In life you may encounter high ideals, noble aspirations, rational solutions to all manners of problems. Political, social, economic, everything. Hell, you may even have brilliant ideas yourself. But then you realize the vast majority of people are just too pig ignorant and plain stupid for any of it to work.

>what? The environment were all adapted to is dying and you want funding/legislation to fix some of the problems?
>But what about collecting some moon rocks instead? We're an adventurous species

>>11261104
LOL you're clearly a board tourist from /pol/ and you're clearly a right-wing conservative type. Furthermore you have zero imagination, zero sense of adventure or discovery, and are One Of Those People who are content to just sit back and have everything be exactly the way it's always been, never improving, never changing, because "it's always been that way". You're probably a Luddite and see no reason for invention or innovation, either.
Basically: you don't belong on /sci/ *at all*. This is not a place for 'people' with calcified brains. Just go back to /pol/ or whatever board you came from and stay there. This place is not for you.

>>11261091
You can stay here on Earth then OP

>>11266050

All I'm saying is that sticks can be plenty sharp without perverting the tips with stone. Add fire and you're just asking for mayhem.

Just look at this degeneracy depicted here. You just know their parents were asking them:

"Are you happy in your godless suburban life?"

>>11261247
What's your technological solution for astronauts inevitably pissing out all their bone calcium? This happens even with modern zero-G exercise equipment (although it slows bone density loss)

>>11266304

rotational artificial gravity.

>>11261091
send humans to space is retarded, machines are infinitely more fit than us to do all tasks, even colonization + extraction of valuable resources.

>>11261119
Based.
It's about expanding our survival chances.

>>11266441

Machines by definition cannot do colonization (unless we figure out mind uploading, but thats a long way to go, if ever..).

>>11266442

This. Anti-consuuume shortsighted /pol/ retard does not realize that without expanding to space we are all doomed anyway, sooner or later. Who cares if we used muh pwecious resources efficiently, if it ultimately leads to extinction?

Lets consume and spread to space, or at least die trying! Do not go gentle into that good night..

>>11261091
Humans don't communicate in this way. Your are being too negative. Your opinion will usually have no effect whatsoever.

First of all, one does not usually start a topic by saying that one doesnt understand that topic.

Second, one does not usually start a topic, where if people agree with you, no conversation will take place.

Third, people generally dont understand what you mean when you use sentences like "there was never shit there".

Fourth, investing and politics is not just about yes and no, but about size. It is very well general ly accepted that space exploration and Mars isn't a very useful enterprise. But still, decisions have to be made on how small it actually is. Currently it stands at about 20 billion a year.

>>11261091
We don't even know if there are a worms or meerkat in Mars soil. We don't know shit.

>>11265271
You are stupid beyond belief.
People want to live on Mars. How many TV shows or books about colonizing Antarctica are there? How many Mars?
Yes, it'd be harder to pull off, noone claims otherwise. The reward would be a second home planet, not a forever frozen wasteland.

>>11266653

So one requires a sweater and Coleman heater. The other requires we develop The Genesis Project (As Seen On TV) whereby we either have people living in a metal dome or box they can never leave (but its not a prison) or simply spend a century or two installing theoretical gadgets in Martian orbit so this worthless rock can hold an atmosphere, which we then also have to install by doing the very thing that people claim is going to melt water on Earth and destroy it by inconveniencing its inhabitants with redrawing coastlines or worse, having to pack U-Hauls and give up their beach condos, forcing mankind to choose seafood over steak occasionally.

All so some sci-fi fanboys can return from Mars with some post-cards, a snow-globe, and a T-Shirt that says "I Terraformed a Whole Planet on Someone Else's Dime & All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt".

Yeah, let's do that. Not the frozen wasteland, the airless rock with the unstable artificial atmosphere millions of miles away that can't be ruined by bad weather. That one.

>>11266456
That's pretty sweet how you people throw around the most vicious labels you can find to crush anyone who calls your gluttony, and tries to explain how it hurts all of us in the long run.

It's pretty much pure evil.

>>11266456
That's pretty sweet how you people throw around the most vicious labels you can find to crush anyone who calls out your gluttony, and tries to explain how it hurts all of us in the long run.

It's pretty much pure evil.

>>11266456
>Opinions I don't like RACIST!!!

Keep it up, retard. "Go back to /pol/" loses more and more of its bite every time a stupid fuck like you uses it.

>>11267006

Wanting extinction of humanity is evil. That is what you want.

>>11267111
Ya meanwhile 30% of koala habitat is gone. Coral reefs are more than half gone. What species is next? When are the oceans gonna be a soup of toxic waste and what city is gonna burn to the ground next so that bloated fucking CONSUUUUUUUUUUUMERS like youself can live a life of gluttony and ignorance?

Your mars colonies are delusional fantasy of sick mind to rationalize your destructive and selfish way of life.

FUCK YOU

KILL YOURSELF

>>11267130

The simple fact is that all the eggs are in one basket.

If life on Earth does not become spacefaring, extinction is just a matter of time. If we become spacefaring, self-sustaining in space, we can survive until the heat death of the universe.

The moral imperative is clear. Branch out or die.

>>11267130

The Earth is life's cradle. But a child cannot stay in the cradle forever. Especially if this cradle will catch fire in less than a billion years. Stagnation = death.

>>11267153
>>11267160
You people are totally loony tunes bonkers.

Why are you even on the /sci/ board? Anyone with such irrational views is incapable of understanding even the most basic science.

>>11267169
they're more rational than some whining luddite

>>11267169

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future
>800 million
>Carbon dioxide levels fall to the point at which C4 photosynthesis is no longer possible.[64] Without plant life to recycle oxygen in the atmosphere, free oxygen and the ozone layer will disappear from the atmosphere allowing for intense levels of deadly UV light to reach the surface. In the book The Life and Death of Planet Earth, authors Peter D. Ward and Donald Brownlee stated that some animal life may be able to survive in the oceans. Eventually, however, all multicellular life will die out.[67] The only life left on the Earth after this will be single-celled organisms.

Basic science says that multicellular life will die out 800 million years from today, if it stays on Earth (probably even sooner, that is the upper limit).

Basic science says that staying on Earth is a 100% losing strategy.

Its space or bust.

>>11267184
while i disagree with the luddite, making plans for human life more than a few thousand years into the future is retarded

>>11267176
No. You're all psychopaths - willing to kill your own mother in pursuit of an incredibly selfish and delusional fantasy of immortality.

>>11267193
you sound drunk anon, maybe you should go party somewhere else

>>11267196
You have a disease of the soul - it's a malignant cancer that spreads and multiplies and consumes anything and everything that is sustainable - like some crazed meth junky that believe he's gonna live forever.

>>11267187

People often say that. They say, even if its true, we still have millions of years until it becomes an issue, we have plenty of time.. Its not that simple, I wish it was.

Colonizing space requires advanced technological civilization. We do not know how long this one will last. What if a catastrophe throws us back into preindustrial levels, from which we never recover? We might not have a lot of time.

Its entirely possible that the next few hundred years will determine the future of life for billions of years to come. If we succeed, life lives until the heat death of the universe, colonizing our galaxy or even the local group. If we fail, life will last for hundreds of milions of years on Earth, but ultimately die out with the Sun.

This is what we face here.

>>11267202

Life on Earth is not sustainable, dummy. It has already been explained to you.

>>11267184
>>11267187
the moron is willing to throw away 800 millions years of life in pursuit of his delusional fantasies of immortality.

>>11267207
that's not the issue, the issue is that humanity will cease to exist as we know it even if nothing bad happens

>>11267211

Humans wont cause extinction of all life on Earth, that would require nuking every square meter of the surface. Ecological damage evetually recovers.

>>11267210
What do you think is more sustainable pre-industrial life on earth or your your delusional fantasies of exponential growth and colonizing the galaxy?

lol you are truly an imbecile of the highest order

>>11267215

Both are issues.

>>11267216
>Humans wont cause extinction of all life on Earth
We dont know that. Earth could revert back to a glacial state in a few 100k years until the sun goes nova in 4 billions due to the meddling we're doing.

>>11267218

Colonizing the galaxy of course. Life on Earth has 800 million at most. The time limit for galactic life is heat death of the universe - trillions of years.

We are dancing around the issue here. You obviously thing colonizing space is somehow fundamentally impossible, even for advanced civilizations. If so, explain why? Where is the big showstopper?

One one hand the 500 million years or so complex life has left on earth might seem as little compared to the timeline oflife, but you have to remember that for the vast majority of its history life has been very simple compared to today. The next several hundred years has much more potential than the previous several hundred.

>>11267228
>You obviously thing colonizing space is somehow fundamentally impossible
well, duh....
>Where is the big showstopper?

Spoken like someone with ZERO understanding of science.
>>11267184
With the proper understanding of how ecosystems and how they work we could potentially control co2 levels for billions of years, and prolong life on this planet for just as long - deflect asteroids or whatever, even steer the evolution of biodiversity on this planet and make it more resilient.
This sounds like ridiculous fantasy as well but in reality is far more feasible that faster than light speed travel or cryogenically freezing colony ships or transhumanism or whatever bullshit fantasy the consumers feel like believing in.

You're essentially acting like a drug addict who believes in his own immortality and is actually willing to turn down a real elixir that would make him live 10x as long because the drugs are more fun.

>>11261119
Man should go extinct.

>>11267228
>Life on Earth has 800 million at most.

And that is for single cell life. Complex life has 500 million at most. Our biosphere is already kinda old. We need to expand beyond Earth to preserve it for much longer.

>>11267246

>control co2 levels for billions of years, and prolong life on this planet for just as long - deflect asteroids or whatever, even steer the evolution of biodiversity on this planet

Lol, you think this is possible, but space colonization is not? Yeah, ZERO understanding of science.

>faster than light speed travel or cryogenically freezing colony ships or transhumanism

None of these things are necessary for space colonization.

>>11267262
we're already essentially controlling co2 levels. do you live under a rock?

anyway, agree to disagree
mark my words though, technoutopians and exponential growth mongers will, ironically, be the ones responsible for life's early demise on this planet.

>>11261091
>This is essentially geologic socialism

Good. Basic research should be publicly funded, and generously, too.

There will come a time when space colonization will be practical for private interests, too. But first it needs to be supported by taxpayer money.

>>11267269
Exponentially growing technoutopia is possible if you have a sustainable and abundant source of energy to fuel it. We do have such sources: nuclear fission, nuclear fusion (a matter of less than a century), and solar power (including space based solar in the future). So there is no technical showstopper, it is just a matter of engineering and time. The problems are of political nature, if any.

>>11267278
This feels a lot like trying to talk sobriety with an alcoholic. Unfortunately in this case, there is a lot more at stake here than just the lives of the alcoholic and family. If humanity is going to have any future at all, it's going to have to find a way to keep its most primitive instincts under control.

>>11267278

>Exponentially growing technoutopia is possible if you have a sustainable and abundant source of energy to fuel it.

This. Luddites dont know about LFTR.

>>11261119
capitalist shill,

instead of "expanding" and "growing"

why not just live in an infinite recycling mode where everything you need is around you at all times? it is possible...

>>11265166
not a no

Mars is literally worth an empty rock in space like the moon.

So the argument is to "save life on Earth", we should devote resources to trying to build a planet out of a rock rather than manage Earth.

"Lets talk about spending trillions trying to build a floating city in the Arctic because doing the work of cleaning the backyard is too hard and not fun."

This isnt based in reason. Its based in adventurism and fantasy. Because both technically are called "planets" you think you can make a "back up copy of Earth" as if building a climate out of nothing is easier than managing one that already exists. It's still subject to asteroids strikes (worse, actually) and solar eruptions (again, even worse).

The whole notion is based on "any place new that isn't Earth" and then invoking natural disaster as the "reason". Math, economics, science and logic be damned, we wanna play science fiction.

Next closest star is 25 trillion miles away. Fuck it. Mars cannot sustain an atmosphere even if we magically gave it one. Too bad. Hellish existence for centuries while managed by some organization that survives for a dozen generations. No problem. Technology out of date by the time you can even begin building it? Shit happens.

No matter how idiotic the idea, 'off worlders' will babble about this forever. Not because it makes any sense, but because it promotes a false sense of legitimacy to a fantasy. People itt want to believe they are the alien high-minded breakaways that save humanity through noble ideas with no accountability to math, economics or reason. I can talk all day about how unethical medical experiments could lead to immortality as long as I am never accountable to produce any of these things (cryogenics is a good example).

There will plenty of reasons to build something useful in space. Not one of them are in this thread because they have no practical reason. People here have an outcome and are looking for a reason to justify it.

>>11266300
You need to put the bong down, step away from the internets, and go to bed.

It gets worse for Trekkies.

The likelihood that any alien civilzation ever contacts another is exceedingly remote.

Star systems close enough together for one planets species to ever reach another are naturally in places where they get pummeled so often that even if life does get a chance to emerge, become intelligent and civilize, it would be in a system so clustered that they would not only have to survive longer to reach star travel, but happen to coincidentally survive all that at the same time as civilization has formed and survived the same thing close by in order to make contact AND be able to breach the distance which is still very large.

Meaning the nature of life evolving requires distances so great from each other that it could only coincidentally happen within the same star system, even in order for one to find archaeological evidence of the other. When you have a lot of stars close enough together that the distance could be traversed, there is so much crap flying around that the planets are not likely going to survive life building and sustaining conditions.

Look at how far we are from the densest star clusters. That we exist at all after numerous ecological or planetary disasters shows just how unlikely the possibility of alien contact ever was, is or could be. And we have to come up with retarded "bending space" theories just to explain how to leave this system for any practical distance to the very nearest other star at just four+ light years away, and thats remarkably close for a region of the galaxy thats fairly quiet.

The further from the galactic center, the more likely there is life, the farther the distance from each other. Thats just how it goes. The odds of two civilizations in the same star system meeting each other is remote enough. To think the two could simultaneously evolve to contact in separate systems somehow being close enough together to travel while not getting pummeled constantly is ridiculous.

Giant farming planet

>>11264157
well actually there are first hand accounts written by other members of columbus' crew that you can read that are very interesting

>>11265271
I'd love to live in Antartica.
I'd love even more to be able to lay claim to large swathes of it. My name would live on for millennia, they'd name cities after me and my family would become absurdly rich.
The value of water and hydrocarbons not in Earth's gravity well is lucrative.
Sign me the fuck up.

>>11267246
Holy fuck you are a moron

>>11268027
Thank you for reading the post, and endeavoring to understand it's arguments to the best of your abilities.

>>11267130
You are literally arguing against the solution to the problems you are describing. Kill yourself honestly, not in chan lingo.

>>11267130
>Ya meanwhile 30% of koala habitat is gone

Who gives a fuck about koalas? Fuck ‘em

> Coral reefs are more than half gone.

Who gives a fuck about coral reefs? Fuck ‘em.

> What species is next?

Who cares? Unless a species has direct utility for us, it matters not if it’s completely wiped out.

>>11266304
>What's your technological solution for astronauts inevitably pissing out all their bone calcium?

Remove your bones and become a robot

>>11261095
>>11266050
>>11266456
>>11268027

>>11268268
psychopathy is dysgenic like autism and mental retardation (>>11268263).
I feel just as bad for you as I do for any other type of retard that wouldn't even be alive without the benefits of modern technology. Explains why you're so gung ho on your special technofantasy.

>>11268313
>psychopathy

No psychopathy here. My desire to obliterate nature is utilitarian in motivation.

>>11268320
nah you're psycho. nature is sentient and innocent. besides its not possible to do what you want to do without wiping ourselves off in the map as well. you'd know that if you weren't psychotic + retardation. the two traits are correlated. cops know that.

>>11268328
>nah you're psycho.

Not by any medical definition, no.

> nature is sentient and innocent

.............No?
No it isn’t. Do you think Gaia exists or some shit like that?

> besides its not possible to do what you want to do without wiping ourselves off in the map as well.

That isn’t actually true. Humans need food which comes from farms, which aren’t natural. The rest of “nature”, like swamps, forests, valleys, mountains, taiga, etc, aren’t needed for us to continue living, and our numbers generally increase by destroying those environs and replacing them with agricultural land and housing.

>>11268336
god man you are one dumb motherfucker.
wind animals are sentient and innocent
>and our numbers generally increase by destroying those environs and replacing them with agricultural land and housing
no they increase by literally converting joules of stored fossil energy into human energy. the destruction of nature retarded psychos like you get off on is only a side effect of that.

anyway I can't talk to you. Its like trying to teach a caveman calculus.

>>11261091
There are caves, where living organism can hide. And we haven't explored them yet.

>>11268346
>wind animals are sentient and innocent

Yes they are, and their lives suck ass. What we can do is sterilize them so they die out in the wild and that giant engine of suffering stops turning, and preserve the ones we want to preserve in zoos where their wellbeing can be maximized. Maybe genetically engineer a few of them like the great apes into people.

> no they increase by literally converting joules of stored fossil energy into human energy. the destruction of nature retarded psychos like you get off on is only a side effect of that.

Humans changed natural environments to our own ends thousands of years before the industrial revolution. Why are you actively lying?

> anyway I can't talk to you. Its like trying to teach a caveman calculus.

Looks like you lose the argument. Every day, more forests are chipped down, more species go extinct, and humanity further fucks Mother Nature in her asshole, and nothing you do or say will stop this.


LOL

>>11268352
lol thats fucked up

>>11268353
>wild animals engine of suffering
what the fuck would you know about that? you presume a lot. admittedly times have been pretty tough on wildlife because of ignorant pschos like you multiplying like a fungal infection or cancer.
you're a dumb and arrogant as shit. its ok though. retards should not have low self esteem. retard power!

>>11268362
>what the fuck would you know about that?

You never watch animal planet? Few species live relatively idyllic lives like bonobos. Shit is nasty. They’re constantly eating eachother and teetering on the edge of dehydration through a dry season or running from predators who are also starving. It’s no wonder humans decided living like some wild animal sucked ass and started constructing farms.

> admittedly times have been pretty tough on wildlife because of ignorant pschos like you multiplying like a fungal infection or cancer.

Yes humans cause every dry season in the savannah. It’s human’s fault whenever wolves eat an elk and it’s humans fault whenever an icthyosaur dies in childbirth over a hundred million years ago. Do you really believe that?

> you're a dumb and arrogant as shit.

Not an argument. Explain exactly why we should allow natural environments to continue existing in their nightmarish state when the organisms involved could experience far higher wellbeing in an artificial environment.

what i don't understand about space exploration is why we don't take a highe volume and expendability approach with probes

fuel isn't that expensive in comparison to the immense amounts spent on the actual probes

so why not just send out a million glorified cell phones instead of a single superexpensive probe

I dont even understand how space exploration and travel cannot be the main focus of every single fucking organization, its our primary target. If humanity is a cell, we need to multiply before we die out. How can anyone refute this? its like being anti-children, humanity is a dead end unless we claw our way out of the tutorial

>>11268686
how many children do you have

>>11265503
>t. I pretend to know about something

>>11268729
i am a sperm donor, so quite a lot.

>>11267312
It is not just LFTR, even other breeder reactors, be it uranium or thorium, can be fuelled from granite or sea water, with enough reserves for millions (billions?) of years at current energy consumption levels.

>>11267799
>It gets worse for Trekkies.

You are the Trekkie here, assuming any alien civilization will operate on timescales of decades as we currently happen to do, instead of millions of years.

Distances between stars are tiny if you have enough time.

>>11261091
This issue is cancerous scififags, including boomers who are in charge of deciding of things.
>muh final frontier
>we must do what scifi promised when I was a kid or else we failed
Scififaggotry pollutes science with its bullshit that is either impossible or undesirable (like living on a desert planet). So scififags have two choices, a) either grow up and give up on their bullshit dream after realising that their dreams are dumb anyway or b) make it your life mission to make scifi become true. That's how you get
>we must colonise Mars to save the Earth in case the aliens/robots/global warming destroy the Earth
Of course that's a bullshit excuse, the truth is they think it would be heckin cool to go on another planet, even if that planet and their idea of a base there would be less liveable and more boring than a trailer park in the middle of Nevada.

If we could cleanse the minds of scientists from scifi then we'd get ambitious automated missions to the rest of the solar system, like the Huygens or Venera landers except better, like Europa ocean exploration or some shit on Io, or more money for telescopes to do real science.

>>11266304
>What's your technological solution for astronauts inevitably pissing out all their bone calcium? This happens even with modern zero-G exercise equipment (although it slows bone density loss)

1. It is much less of an issue nowadays than you think.

>“We’re seeing insignificant changes in bone density. We’re actually seeing an increase in lean body mass and decrease in body fat. Until just recently, I would have given you absolutely opposite information.”

https://spacenews.com/resistive-targeted-exercise-reversed-astronauts-bone-loss-study-finds/

2. Spin gravity

3. Evolution. Just like when humans spread out of Africa, many will die but humanity will adapt to low gravity over time.

>>11268686
>hurr we're gonna shit up the Earth and migrate to a desert planet, that'll be the solution
>we managed to survive for millions of years fine
>but that's totally gonna stop anytime now and we're all gonna die
>we're on the edge of being unable to keep the Earth liveable
>but we're totally on the edge of being able to make an absolutely unliveable planet become liveable
This is what scififags actually believe. Your mind and imagination are polluted, this is a pathology. But if you retards want to spend trillions of your dollars to pitch a pressurised tent in between two rocks in a desert on an airless planet and never come back, be my guest.

>>11268353
>>wind animals are sentient and innocent
>Yes they are, and their lives suck ass. What we can do is sterilize them so they die out in the wild and that giant engine of suffering stops turning, and preserve the ones we want to preserve in zoos where their wellbeing can be maximized.

Brainful take. Imagine that humans move to space to live in tightly regulated artificial environments, and then destroy the Earth. The amoung of suffering in observable universe would decrease immensely.

>>11268669
>so why not just send out a million glorified cell phones instead of a single superexpensive probe

You are right and this is what Elon wants to do as per his tweet.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1111798912141017089

>Probably no fairing either & just 3 Raptor Vacuum engines. Mass ratio of ~30 (1200 tons full, 40 tons empty) with Isp of 380. Then drop a few dozen modified Starlink satellites from empty engine bays with ~1600 Isp, MR 2. Spread out, see what’s there. Not impossible.

>>11267763
based, scififags btfo by reason and logic

>>11267160
>omg we have less than 1,000,000,000 years left it's not sustainable!!
>so let's not wait a few hundred years until we have better technology and let's move to Mars and spend the next billion years there right now!!
scififag cope

>>11268777
>If we could cleanse the minds of scientists from scifi then we'd get ambitious automated missions to the rest of the solar system, like the Huygens or Venera landers except better, like Europa ocean exploration or some shit on Io, or more money for telescopes to do real science.

Science is not and should not be the most important goal of spaceflight. Also, you need humans to do real science anyway. The amount of science done by a manned moonbase would dwarf anything robots can do.

>>11268801
>what is window of opportunity

We have two centuries. Then all bets are off regarding modern civilization on Earth.

>>11268777

Very well said.

Imagine a Mars colony filled with scientists, the TFR would hover around 0.05, it would be the purest population sink since the Roanoke colony

>>11268802
>The amount of science done by a manned moonbase
like what? Geology? Wow yes I'm sure mankind can benefit immensely from having a Harrison Schmidt type pitching a tent on the moon, we'll know all about the various kinds of regolith and how it's affected by solar wind. Truly worth the trillions of dollars needed to make it happen. There's a reason absolutely no one actually bothered to send anyone back to the Moon, it's not worth it, and the more probes and rovers get good and cheap, the less it will be worth it.

>>11268805
>he's not sure we can survive the next 200 years
>let's worry about what might happen in a billion years
How are Mars colonists supposed to survive if the Earth turns into the planet of the apes? As far as anyone can foresee they will always be dependent on supplies from the Earth, even if they can somehow grow their own food and have their own supply of oxygen and water, all the hardware they depend on will have to be sent from Earth, they're not gonna mine rare earth and build the CPUs needed for every little machine they'll need. Mars colonists would be the most fragile people and the most dependent on everything going smoothly on the Earth. Earth people will survive all kinds of shit, even nuclear warfare, Mars colonists won't survive federal budget cuts.
Just say it, you think space exploration is really cool, you don't like mankind and you'd gladly volunteer for a one way trip to Mars.

>>11261091
>>11268789
is /sci/ being brigaded? Is this a joke? Its not even something to argue about, we are going to space or we are gonna fail here, on an insignificant single planet. the faster we proceed the better.

You people should probably watch this.

He has a lot of videos of interest on similar topics. They tend to be long-ish, but he does say a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzZGPCyrpSU

>>11268777
>or more money for telescopes to do real science.
>real science
like what? looking for nonexistent, fictitious dark matter? what a great way to spend money, why not spend a few billion dollars of other peoples money looking for the easter bunny too?

>>11268818
>insignificant
Why do middlebrow retards think they're being deep when they use that word? Insignificant to whom? To every sentient creature you know the Earth is the only thing that matters, it's the rest of the universe outside of the Sun, Moon and perhaps Jupiter that is irrelevant, the rest of the galaxy is just there to look nice at night. Everything outside of the solar system could suddenly pop out of existence and it wouldn't do us any harm.
>but muh tiny blue marble
The Earth is where everybody and everything lives, the rest is as far as we know either empty or a hostile desert. That's like saying that a megalopolis is insignificant compared to a vast empty desert.

Try actually making arguments, what are you gonna do on other planets? Mercury is shit, Venus is a crematorium (don't tell me living in blimps in the high atmosphere of Venus where it's roughly 20° and 1 bar is mankind's future), the Moon is basically a rock, Mars can't hold an atmosphere worth speaking of, the asteroids, comets and the moons of the gas planets are frozen shitholes, that includes Titan.

>oh no someone disagrees with my scififaggotry we must be brigaded

>>11268824
I agree with you about dark matter, but that's science we're talking about, and serious astronomical investigation requires telescopes. We've found lots of interesting things with telescopes, we've confirmed black holes, found tons of exoplanets (and will find plenty more), we know more about our asteroids, early galaxy formation (as seen in the deep field images), we can use them to check at regular intervals on clouds on Neptune. Telescopes give a good return, although they still cost billions. Compare with the trillions you need to get some female scientist to Mars to look at rocks we already looked at with probes.
>but muh colonisation
again, why would anyone spend trillions to send people to a desert planet and have them die whenever the funds dry up or you're unable to send necessary supplies in time? If you spent time actually thinking about how that works you'd see that it's not a solution to anything at all, but of course scififags think in vague terms such as >hurr one planet isn't enough we need more planets to survive.

>>11268836
>We've found lots of interesting things with telescopes
no you, that was other people.
if you want to give them all of your money thats fine, but its not your place to grant those incompetent peabrains my money.
somehow you're smart enough to realize dark matter is bullshit, but still to dumb to realize how much of the rest of what you've been told is also just most self-serving lies from ivory tower academics who are always hungry for more and more of other people's money and never provide a return on the investment.
enjoy your $13 billion dollars worth of jwst thats currently 16 years late, $12.5 billion over budget, has no scheduled launch date and will probably never launch. nasa stoped making status updates 3 months ago.
nasa can't even launch a tin can into low earth orbit anymore.
astronomers already have plenty of telescopes, they don't need more. they've vast amounts of data thats never even looked at. why not let those people demonstrate some value before you grant them a blank check of other people's money. get a fucking job and buy your own telescope

>"Could We Terraform Mars?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshtPsOTCP4

No.

>>11268848
I agree that NASA has become pathetic and focuses more on inner city outreach programs than science, but it doesn't change the fact that better telescopes and mission-specific telescopes (like wide angle telescopes to simultaneously get light curves from lots of stars at the same time) are necessary to push science further
>astronomers already have plenty of telescopes, they don't need more
that's a retarded and regressive thing to say, telescopes didn't stop improving, on the contrary, even Earth-based ones have made great leaps forward in the last 4 decades, giving up on making new and better (or more specific) telescopes is giving up on astronomy.

>>11267799

>"Have [Aliens] Seen Us?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttwl_zH_DZ8

No.

>>11268814

>As far as anyone can foresee they will always be dependent on supplies from the Earth

Nope. The aim is for the colony to become self-sustaining.

>>11268805

>what is window of opportunity

Exactly this. If all goes well, we will soon have an opportunity to make self-sustaining colonies in space. We dont know how long this window of opportunity will last. Might be a few hundred years, or a few thousand years until the next collapse, we dont know. And keep in mind that it takes some time to found such a colony.. The sooner we start, the higher our chances are of becoming self-sustaining in space before the window closes.

This is really simple logic, only an idiot cannot follow it.

>>11268835
>Try actually making arguments, what are you gonna do on other planets?

Not him but .... you could say that about life on Earth though? We don't need to hunt for food any more, we don't need to seek shelter any more, we don't need to fight off anyone for reproducing etc.... If you take a logotherapy approach to life and assign life a meaning, then one purpose could be to explore the stars and colonise other planets. To become masters of the universe.

>>11261091
>lets send all out money to africa to feed ignorant starving savages that breed like rabbits for no reason or benefit to anything
kys

>Can't terraform Mars ever
>Can't get to nearest star ever
>Really no reason to think there is any way or reason to leave Earth
>At most we can dress up and play Space Shuttle in mom's minivan

at least we have string theory

>>11268987

Technically they are the oldest extant humanoid genome by numbers surviving the longest and the nidus for continental diaspora over many climates

That is, some spear shaking primitives actually may have a better chance of preserving humanity on Earth over millenia through disasters than the soi bois here who wanna ditch the planet to live in a floating tin can that can be killed with a pebble or wait to die as mole people under a frozen desert millions of miles from air.

Nature favors the simple. White people, not so much.

Yet after losing control of two continents and watching their population dwindle through vice and gullibility, there are still people who claim 'white supremacy' somehow. Probably from coming up with ass-hat ideas like watching Star Trek and thinking its real.

>>11265512
>it's funny how all these retarded leftist types want to save the world by reducing quality of life and starving people, and have never once in history been responsible for a single positive change, ever. Meanwhile actually intelligent people instead invent ways to improve efficiency and production instead, they are the business people the prior type hates.
Leftists are the ones inventing those improvements, retards. Businessmen aren't scientists.

>>11269041
can't hear you over the sound of our supremacy.
No seriously, I can't hear you from out here, there's no air

>>11269061


lel

>>11265371
t. sameposter

You all may as well face it: You're stuck here on plain old Earth with the rest of us forever. The only stars you'll see is by looking up like humans have been doing since they were living in trees. Whatever air and water the worst polluters leave is what you get. Whatever animals are left is all you got while they last. If you have to move to higher ground, you'll do it and be happy to get it before the rest of the mobs find it. And they will, either way, so prepare for close company with people from anywhere and everywhere.

The water might taste funny. Maybe the place will smell like Florida. The birds may be fewer and the food a little funky but your ancestors had it rough too. There are still whole regions that live off rat and potato and crap on the beach or in the barren fields. We're 8 billion and growing with plenty of ocean water for all the sewers we'll ever need and plenty of fish in them too. Most of the world lives where its a lot hotter and sweatier than where you are.

No spaceships are going to rescue you with imaginary engines crossing light years. No governments are going to spend their money to build you playworlds in orbit and no wealthy dreamers are going to share their condos on Mars because when you get down to it, you can't afford the rent. You and all who come after are stuck on this ball of mud living off dirt like the rest of us, and you better get used to it. There's nowhere to go, and no way to leave anyways.

This is what you got, so just take it. Wise up and take what you can get. If you take it long enough, you might just learn to like it instead of babbling about spaceships and imaginary worlds all the time. This is as good as it gets, imperfections and all, so you better just get back to reality. This is where its at forever.

>>11265322
Spewing the most infantile possible conclusions then tacking on some strawmen isnt creative thinking anon.

>>11269137
What the fuck are you talking about, sperg?

>>11269192
HE SAYIN YOU A HO, NIGGA! DAS YOU NIGGA!

>>11261091
>being against learning
Kill yourself

>>11265512
>and have never once in history been responsible for a single positive change, ever.
What kind of mad fucking delusion do you live in you idiot? Every state apparatus funded by tax dollars which is used by the tax payers exists because of socialist ideals. On a longer timeline socialists were also directly responsible for the overthrow of multiple corrupt monarchies and churches.

>>11265539
There is an extreme difference between consuming because you need to in order to survive and consuming because you just cant live without that big gulp. Additionally its the lack of self awareness that is distinctive.

>>11267278
>nuclear fusion
>less than a century
maybe if we figure out how the tictac alien ships work but other wise no

>>11268369
youre so full of fucking shit.
all they do is eat sleep, hunt and fuck all day. and raise their offspring. they don't have to worry about taxes or doing repetitive menial labour to pay the bills for some low brow reality tv show and pill they're addicted to. they dont have to get stressed out about winning debates with fucking psychotic retards on the internet. It would be easier to argue that the average humans existence is the real "engine of suffering".

Furthermore, do you really believe that humans aren't putting any pressure on wildlife? And that they aren't making their lives more difficult through their constant psychotic development and encroachment on their land?

you're fucked in the head pal. I truly hope to god you're not in any capacity to make decisions for large numbers of people, but, given the state of the world I think lunatics like you are all too commonly found in positions of power.

>>11261091
So you have no trouble with corporations taking over the entire universe right? If they got their money and people willing to pay to go to the universe, you're fine with it?

>>11269228
with recent advances in superconductors and also laser driven / impact fusion, it is only a matter of few decades at most

>>11269680
let me guess, 3 decades? same number the oldest boomers have been hearing for their entire lives

>>11268369
You hate what you do not understand. It's simple. You are consumed by contempt, bitterness, and hate.

>>11269697
how did boomers get so hopelessly brainwashed?

Based OP. Fuck these stupid ass clowns who think that we should support studying le outer space. They are the deranged manics raised on star wars/star trek films who have replaced standard religion with a new, basedence based religion.

>>11269718
>I have no imagination and will ruthlessly ridicule anyone who does because only silly children have imagination!
>human can never fly, it's impossible, we shouldn't even try!
>we've 'discovered' all there is to discover, anything more is a waste of money!
OK boomer

>>11269137
>schizoposter

>>11269717
they lived in times of extreme growth and technological advance, it's probably not hard to project that onto all fields of science, they probably thought by 2020 we'd have cities on mars for sure

>>11269727
the best thing possible for the dreamers is that we actually have some scientific evidence for FTL travel but that doesn't really seem to be showing itself

>>11269727
You aren't getting the point, s o y boy.
But why try to explain that to you? Your brain is so filled with szechuan sauce that you can't even see straight

>>11269713
Not an argument. Looks like I win.

>>11269660
>all they do is eat sleep, hunt and fuck all day. and raise their offspring. they don't have to worry about taxes or doing repetitive menial labour to pay the bills for some low brow reality tv show and pill they're addicted to. they dont have to get stressed out about winning debates with fucking psychotic retards on the internet. It would be easier to argue that the average humans existence is the real "engine of suffering".

Wow, sounds so idyllic.
Go live like that in the Jungle and see what happens. You’re full of shit like every “nature lover” lol

>>11269731
makes sense. and it'll never be as good again, as it was for the boomers.

>>11269208
>There is an extreme difference between consuming because you need to in order to survive and consuming because you just cant live without that big gulp.

Performing the minimum necessary to survive is simply not enough for 99% of humans. Not you, not me, or anyone within kilometers of us. The ascetic shtick is contradictory wherever people vomit it, so don’t vomit it here.

>>11261091
Short term:

Automated missions to test the systems that would allow future manned missions COME BACK. No one is talking about putting people to live there for all their life's this same decade.

Once manned missions can go and back safely the idea would be to improve the range of AUTOMATED missions. People would only go there to do maintenance, for a very good payment, and then return to earth to enjoy their pay and maybe prestige.

Medium term:

If life have not been found (that on itself would be quite amazing and maybe even beneficial) previous automated missions might have found lots of resources to exploit, again mostly with automation and robots (just like they control the rovers from earth). If rocket technology keeps improving it may be possible to transport profitable amounts of material.

Also the environmental pressure on our un planet just might begin to be lessened now that there is the possibility of extracting such materials. (Imb4 asteroids, sure that is also a possibility).

Long term: there may be people that prefer to live in another world due to a myriad of reasons. After so many years of exploration a lot of tech (and biotech) will be available to those to want to live there. Who knows? Maybe Mars will be our last hope when a tyrannical police global government takes over earth.

Not to mention all the technological advances made on Mars exploration would also benefit those living here at earth.
But that is too much for an edgy cumbrainer like op.

>>11269745
I feel sorry for you. It can't be healthy - all your hate.

Go and kill some endangered species if you like. In the end nature will have the day, and screeching autists like you will return to the dirt and nourish a weed, which will feed an insect, which will feed a bird, which will feed a cat. It's beautiful.

>>11268835
>Try actually making arguments, what are you gonna do on other planets? Mercury is shit, Venus is a crematorium (don't tell me living in blimps in the high atmosphere of Venus where it's roughly 20° and 1 bar is mankind's future), the Moon is basically a rock, Mars can't hold an atmosphere worth speaking of, the asteroids, comets and the moons of the gas planets are frozen shitholes, that includes Titan.

Live there in a bunker and have fun looking at the local geology and jacking off

>>11269041
>That is, some spear shaking primitives actually may have a better chance of preserving humanity

That’s not humanity. That’s apes.
If you want humanity, go to China or Europe or the US.

>>11269768
> In the end nature will have the day

No, it will die. Mother Nature will die from being raped by humans within the next few centuries, then we will eat her rotting corpse and start fucking Luna in the ass. The universe is our prey.

>>11269041
lol based nigposter

t. white boi

>>11269787
>Mother Nature will die from being raped by humans
If mother nature survived a comet impacts, several global glaciations, it will survive a bunch of contempt-filled scifi nerd autists.

Sorry bro. You are worm food. And the worm will be eaten by a bird, and the bird will fuck another bird, and raise its young blissfully unaware that at one point a screeching retard thought he could "kill nature", and "start fucking Luna in the ass".

LOL

>>11269777
>china
>humanity
You outed yourself as an insectoid.

>>11269811

In the end, nature will die when the Sun dies. Unless we colonize space.

>>11269734
We don't need FtL to travel to other planets or asteroids in our solar system. We should still develop engines that are much faster than the ones we have now, like thermonuclear or fusion rockets, which would significantly shorten trips to and fro Mars and back but even with current technology, it's certainly doable.

Shit, we don't even need FtL to for interstellar travel. With anything .5c and up, it wouldn't take that long to get to neighboring star systems, though FtL would certainly help. We just need to figure out a method that people will be happy with, like suspended animation or generation ships. I'd imagine something like Alpha C wouldn't be too bad at 5-7 years but anything beyond would kinda tough.

>>11269041
>some spear shaking primitives actually may have a better chance of preserving humanity on Earth over millenia through disasters than the soi bois here who wanna ditch the planet

Pointless. The goal is to preserve technological society over billions of years. If the best we can do is preserve some mud huts over millenia, then we may as well go extinct.

I'll just leave this here seeing it might contribute to discussion. Not mine though

>>11269811
>If mother nature survived a comet impacts, several global glaciations, it will survive a bunch of contempt-filled scifi nerd autists.

Humans are a force far stronger than any prior natural disaster. We can not be withstood, and in time, all bastions of nature will be subjugated and their surrounding territories purged, to be used for strip mining, farming, and lumber mills.

> Sorry bro. You are worm food.

Depressed misanthropes, which make up all environmentalists, have a strange obsession with being made objects of irrelevance dominated by external forces. You have, in a quite literal sense, the mentality of a femboi bottom, and your hatred of your own species will ultimately be no obstacle to our eventual complete destruction of the natural world. I am sorry that you feel this way, and maybe one day you will learn better.
Did you know that entire species of birds have gone extinct because of domestic cats? It’s really quite breathtaking.

>>11261091
You ustaters need to go there to troll the world, is literally your fate. You need it to survive as a country.

>>11269831
>We just need to figure out a method that people will be happy with, like suspended animation or generation ships.

Send frozen gametes with artificial wombs. Raise the kids by AI. No need to send actual people over those vast distances.

>>11269835
Star trek reddit tier post

>>11269846
>I have no argument but I do have buzzwords

>>11269837
>have a strange obsession with being made objects of irrelevance dominated by external forces.
lol @ this fucking retard. thinks he's fucking god or something. get real man. you're fucking worm food just like everyone else.
>Hatred of your own species
god man you are funny, are you on coke?
>Did you know that entire species of birds have gone extinct because of domestic cats?
What species of birds? The ones that evolved over millions of years in cities? Or do you mean feral cats?

>>11269825
Nature will die in less than 800 million years, even without any human involvement. Aging Sun increases it's output and will burn too hot long before it actually becomes a red giant.

The universe will be here for countless trillions of years after Nature is swallowedwhole by the dying Sun.

Ours for the taking.

>>11269852
>lol @ this fucking retard. thinks he's fucking god or something. get real man. you're fucking worm food just like everyone else.

As can be showcased here, the femboi bottom wants to be demeaned and degraded. In their natural habitat, they satisfy this desire by taking big loads of cum in their buttholes from “daddy”, but in this case study, we document an aberrant femboi who, in lieu of genuine sexual activity, has created an artificial “top” or “mommy” in the form of nature. Our most popular hypothesis to explain this behavior is that this particular femboi suffers from depression and low self-esteem, causing a hatred not only of himself but his entire species. Our findings are discussed in the body of the paper.

>>11269853
ya or its littered with the remains of civilizations that were arrogant enough to believe they were gods, forgot their place in the universe, and believed themselves above nature.

>>11269864
>and believed themselves above nature.


Humanity proves himself above nature the moment he picks up a shovel, a ho, or an ax and begins to alter his surroundings to suit his needs.

>>11269864
Better die trying in that case.

>>11269860

If humans colonize space, I think they will bring a lot of nature with them. I wonder what the first space pet would be.

>>11269865
>a ho

:D

>>11269863
you're worm food. sorry you're so angry about that.
and your beloved "civilization" and "technological advancement" will die an early death because of the shear arrogance of malignant CONSUUUUUUUUMERS like you multiplying like some form of virulent toxic fungus.

>>11269868
>If humans colonize space, I think they will bring a lot of nature with them

Our eukaryote and prokaryote buddies that we drag along will be artificial in nature due to selective breeding and domestication. If we continue to breath oxygen and eat food, it is inevitable that we litter the place with big vats of Cyanobacteria.

>>11269868
I wonder if artificial wild areas with predators eating prey etc. will be allowed on them space cities, or whether it will be seen as animal abuse.

>>11269872
>you're worm food. sorry you're so angry about that.

An alternative explanation proposed by Widsworth et al. is that the figure of “nature” serves an identical psychological function to the figure of “God”. A force external from humans to be held sacred, which created humans and will outlast humans, and from which values can be derived externally. Widsworth et al. discusses this proposal further in their soon to be published paper on the aforementioned femboi bottom “Viability of theological substitution as an explanation for the mental illness of environmentalism”.

Did you know that hundreds of species go extinct every day and there’s nothing you can do about it? That’s really funny.

>>11269885
>explanation proposed by Widsworth et al. is that the figure of “nature” serves an identical psychological function to the figure of “God”
Um sorry, sport, this is a science board, not some artsy faggot fantasy future forum.

I recommend you first try learning about the exponential function. It's pretty complicated. In public school we learn about it in grade 12! Here's a youtube video to get you started. Good luck lil buddy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O133ppiVnWY

>>11269891
>Um sorry, sport, this is a science board, not some artsy faggot fantasy future forum.

Psychology is a science, my good sport. You are confused.

>>11269895
>Psychology is a science
whatever you say, lil buddy
economics is science too
and so is gay porn making, your area of highest learning.
you're a "scientist"

>>11269903
>economics is science too

The human population isn’t increasing exponentially, nor is the amount of energy we use. Energy usage and production has in fact dropped in many first world nations.

>>11269906
ya whatever. im done here. just piss off. youre retarded
>inb4 not an argument I guess I win herdur
Very good. You're right on that point. Now, just piss off.

>>11269910
What a crybaby. When proven wrong, you get angry and storm away.
It’s okay, there’s hope for you still. When I was an edgy moody depressed teenager, I was a misanthrope too, but I grew out of it and now I accept the glory that is mankind, and eye our development and future with optimism and happiness. It’s quite literally just a phase you’re in, and you’ll exit it eventually.

People who think mankind can organize and work together to terraform a planet have never spent time around the inner city.

The experience would show you what management by humans actually looks like by the government, and what it is you are really managing at its basic level.

You talk of building cities in space. Yet what you are describing is the mother of all suburbs, and thats simply not possible.

>>11265935
typed like a man who has eaten food this decade.

>>11269845
>Send frozen gametes with artificial wombs. Raise the kids by AI. No need to send actual people over those vast distances.
If I were one of those kids, I'd be fucking pissed though. That's kinda unethical. At least 'birth' them once they reach the destination.

This thread is a crime against humanity.
>big rock hits blue rock
>humans only have blue rock
>what humans do?
Oh, I know, we'll just sit around and wait for a solution.

>>11269753
The point is to demonstrate that there is a wide gulf between what is reasonable and what isnt with respect to consumption, not to suggest that you should live on the physical minimum. People watering their lawns in California during a drought is unreasonable, people heating their homes in winter is not. Hilariously you display the behaviour I suggested is an additional factor with this post.

>>11270094
This is a false comparison, there will be no liberalism in space. Look at a city like Singapore compared to NYC, the level of obedience to the rules is night and day.

>>11268822
>>11268852
>>11268873

You people haven't watched these.

This guy basically takes the same type of absurd ideas in this thread, like "Could we ever grow feathers out our arse and flap our arms to Mars?" and gives the rational answers no one wants to hear.

"Sure, we could fly to Alpha Centauri. We just need three generations of humans willing to spend 90 years dropping nukes behind them to find nothing there and then return to terraform Mars by incinerating the entire crust. Sure its possible."

I can't tell if he's subtlety trolling sci-fi boys or just being honest and articulate to a fault. He clearly knows the subject better than /sci/. He has plenty of optimism and then blatantly explains why its absurd with a straight face and honest timetables.

"Sure, we can do anything. It just takes thousands of years and five times our global GDP. Totally possible".

1/3 the gravity
0.5 atmosphere pressure
No oxygen

Yeah thats way easier than air conditioning on Earth. Somehow Ockams razor goes out the window when space is the topic.

>>11265202
retarded fool. "progress" is a platitude. space is empty and cold.

>>11266456
this is so fucking cringe. kill yourself reddit fag. are you even a scientist?


MUH IMAGINATION MUH CIVILIZATIONAL IMPERATIVE MUH EPIC COSMOS.

this thread is absolute garbage. I am shocked at the amount of reddit here. Yeah space is cool and its nice to "dream" or whatever you fags think. But colonization of the universe is very childish and naive. The only way it would work would be if it was undertaken by a fascist regime, the kumbaya "durr space will unite us!" is so fucking dumb, and the only people who think this are brainwashed whitoids without a real understanding of the sciences. In my opinion, space is incredibly underwhelming and quite boring

Exterminate 7+ billion humans.

Environment blooms. Resources abound. The human race gains tens of thousands of years of longevity to patiently cultivate technology and the solar system.

Its not the answer you want. But its your only solution and right in front of your faces. Those to weak to admit will be the ones removed, regardless of their technology.

If Mars could hold an atmosphere, I would be fine with any argument to terraform it.

But it can't. And no one wants an entire planet at the mercy of orbiting hardware. It's like the person who said "Anyone who thinks self driving cars are a good idea has never owned a printer."

Explain how to re-start the core of Mars to re-generate a magnetic field that lasts and then the rest becomes debatable at least. Until then, you have nothing but a floating airless rock. The only value would be as a substrate to attach to like barnacles, and that's essentially worthless. You get the same useless effect from simply building in orbit, and no one wants to do that anyways. The tenants couldn't afford it (unless their job was beaming solar to microwave energy to Earth which a robot could do easily) and it would still be the confinement of a prison no matter how much it looks like a mall because everyone would eventually want to leave and go insane if they couldn't.

Thats before you address the issue of bone loss, radiation etc.

You people are claiming the Earth will kill us but want to take your chances investing in a floating condominium that can be annihilated with a wayward speeding rock.