/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11225406
>climate change
>>>/x/

>>11225409

>>11225409
fuck off back to your cage >>/pol/

I'm going to be pissed if the planet becomes inhospitable to complex life

>>11225406
there will be no serious action on climate change until there is large support for ecofacist parties and widespread ecoterrorist attacks

>>11225406
Why even bother? It's clear that nothing will ever be done.

>>11225409
fpbp
OP, stop having delusions and focus on real issues like extreme poverty

Looks like we have to take these matters into our own hands. Eat the bugs and kill your fellow Americunts

>>11225409
>>>/pol/ you have to go back

>>11225406
Really?
Well, they said 10+ years ago that if we didn't fix stuff the world was doomed within 10 years. Since "the science is settled" there is literally nothing to do, just enjoy the ride. By their logic.

>>11225724
yeah, where are all the promised forest fires, droughts, species extinction and climat refugees??

alarmists:
>CO2 IS KILLING THE PLANET
also alarmists:
>burn tons of aviation fuel flying to madrid where they achieve nothing
Ask me how I know climate change is fake.

If climate change is as bad as they say it is, then perhaps we should look for solutions that don't require large scale international cooperation. There are, for example, there are a number of geoengineering projects that could cock-block all plausible warming, and are within the budget of a single-sized nation. Most cost estimates for stratospheric aerosol inject or marine cloud brightening come in at under $20 billion a year. Now, these are not perfect fixes, but would certainly prevent any of the really dire scenarios that fear-mongers like to talk about.

Using these methods for a few decades while we make a gradual transitional to renewables is always on the table.

>>11225423
https://youtu.be/7UWElJ2O8as

>>11226503
low IQ take

>>11226585
not an argument

>>11226664
Neither is the comment he's replying to. The hypocrisy of activists is entirely immaterial to the truth proposition of the matter, you intellectually dishonest, low IQ hack.

>>11225409
lemme guess, next you're gonna say the great filter is actually jews?

>>11225748
Wait. wait. wait. WAIT THEY'RE HERE ALREADY
GUYS guys FUCK

>>11226804
This comment is what "poisoning the well" looks like. It's a propaganda technique designed to stop people from even considering the arguments.
This anon is not a honest actor.

>>11226825
>exposing leftist shill propagandizing is propaganda
go back to /pol/

>>11226930
Posting some unsourced screenshot in order to try and equate any argument from one side as "leftist propaganda" IS propaganda.
Seriously anon, what are you even doing posting here if you lack these kinds of basic reasoning skills?

>>11226930
lol goebbel's took from the female playbook 101.

>>11225406
It's gonna get real bad for some future generation of humans. I suspect it will do so all at once. It's unfortunate that the species never figured out a practical way to keep its numbers down to a manageable level. Once this shit hits the fan, the species will be reduced to a barabaric morsel of its former glory, which will probably have no concept and no use of history, science, or mathematics.

>>11226930
>zero evidence of this actually happening anywhere other than in your head

>>11226943
He's here to spread right-wing propaganda, duh

>>11226943
>if shills don't doxx themselves exposing them is propaganda
Why are leftist political shills pushing their bs in /sci/?

>>11225406
>>With the two-week gathering spilling into the weekend, campaigners and many nations slammed Chile
good. our government represents no one but itself and the crony political and economic elites (i.e., themselves) of this country.
please expose them as what they are: a bunch of manipulative liars and human rights violators.

>>11225406
>>>/x/

>>11226804
meanwhile, there are real corporate shills posting in these boards. but we don't see you posting about those.

climate change is not science take your conspiracy theory to >>>/x/ or >>>/pol/

>>11225406
The final nail in the coffin was when the politicians making all the noise about climate change endorsed a "market based solution".

It's a globalized world. The Trudeau phenomena affects how people vote in other countries.

Every fucking day I get up to a house warmed by burning gas, eat my breakfast heated by burning coal, drive my car using oil and I'm smug as fuck about it.

Gretta and the climate whackies can go live ina cave, fuck em.

>>11227016
Who or what was exposed by that unsourced pic? Do you just believe anything that's posted so long as it's in line with your "side?"

>>11226804
>climate change is leftist propaganda
okay, Donald Trump

>>11227121
You were.
bait pic:
>baits
you:
>blub blub blub uncoursed well poison propaganda you cant prove im a lefty shill
It's what happens when someone has a guilty conscience.

>>11225430
Unironically this, let's drop some ecological b0mbs, kill some people

>>11227156
Thanks for admitting that it's all bait in this bait posts. Enjoy the (you)

haven't been here in a while.
Since when is /pol/ shilling for stupidity in /sci/?

>>11227186
publicly, i mean

>>11225423
I'm gonna be pissed if it doesn't

>>11227213
Correct. Being pissed requires one to be alive.

This is literally all the fault of this stupid fucking bitch. She was speaking to a bunch of old and very self respecting politicians. These are people you need to be respectful towards because they have such high opinions of themselves that they will try to spite you if you act like like a little shit to them. And the bitch acts like a little shit. She goaded them into ignoring climate change for another 10 years.

>>11227231
OK boomer

>>11227243
please go back or lurk for at least 6 months

>>11227027
Have you ever heard of the ice age?

>>11227244
I've been here longer than you.

>>11227231

>>11227186
it's not just /sci/ suffering from this.
/pol/ got infested with retards and literal boomers in the latter half of 2016 for some unknown reason, and now that they have gotten comfortable with 4chan's format they are leaking all over other boards.
it's a sad state of affairs.

>>11227261
Ive seen your kind of post for years before 2016.

>>11227266
before 2016 the problem board was /b/ rather than /pol/, and the scale was not as bad, but I agree that at its heart this is not a new problem.

>>11227261
>/pol/ got infested with retards and literal boomers in the latter half of 2016
It was a death sentence for all them who got infected with that poison, but it will be a blessing for those second tier people who move into the first tier when the old first tier is exterminated, and it will be a blessing for the third tier when the former second tier is evacuated by promotion and then filled with the former third tier, and it will be a blessing for the fourth tier when...

>>11227287
It's not even a problem. It's just people being people.

>>11227173
Just remember that exposing yourself by falling for bait doesn't make you not a shill.

>>11226699
satisfying read, thank you

>>11225406
>When did you realize that climate change is the great filter and humanity is going to get past it?
A couple days ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsA3PK8bQd8

>>11227336
*not

>>11226576
Strangely, all forms of geoengineering is declared bad. It is in fact (?) so bad you are not even allowed to research it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=6s&v=bs23CjIWMgA

>>11226991
horseshit, we handed history and knowledge down gradually over thousands of years to get where we are now. i dont know what worst case scenario looks liek, but we're gonna be fine.

This is like a bad game of civilization where you researched all the retarded technologies, and when you want to start a new game it's impossible.
Maybe except if we go into space and colonize something else, then we got all the good tech to start with.

>>11225406
Climate change is real but not ultimately able to harm us. It’s dangerous to nature, but fuck nature.

>>11226503
aviation is 2% of global CO2 output. its more fuel efficient to travel on a fully loaded boeing 787 (or any modern aircraft) than a toyota prius

>>11227728
I am a bit sceptical about the CO2 accounting. Recently there was a local discussion about the opening of a new oil field and it was declared that this would increase the national CO2 output enormously. At first I was surprised the extraction would somehow leak so much CO2 but then it was explained that the national accounting meant that the oil, when exported and burned/used in other countries would in fact contribute to our national CO2 budget. I am sure they also count the CO2 emitted from the point of use, at least that is what we hear most of the time. And that means the CO2 is counted twice.

>>11228348
The CO2 isn't counted twice, it's just estimated from the quantity of fossil fuel that's extracted.
For a given mass of coal or petrol you can (pretty accurately) estimate how much CO2 is produced from combustion, so regardless of who burns it that's how much CO2 is released from a given amount of fossil fuel.

>>11227709
>another psychotic boomer rationalizes his bloated consumerism

big surprise

>>11227231
>a bunch of old and very self respecting politicians. These are people you need to be respectful towards because they have such high opinions of themselves that they will try to spite you if you act like like a little shit to them

and you think cowtowing to such people is a gonna work? LOL

>>11227231
>a bunch of old and very self respecting politicians. These are people you need to be respectful towards because they have such high opinions of themselves that they will try to spite you if you act like like a little shit to them

and you think kowtowing to such people is a gonna work? LOL

>>11228673
OK, so most of the CO2 is the fault of the Saudis, and we can import as much hydrocarbons as we want without having to pay CO2 quota? Right?

>>11228858
Don't know why you're pointing the finger at certain countries when this is clearly the burden of humanity as a whole (bar maybe primitive tribes people)

>>11228902
No, I am not pointing fingers anywhere other than the stupidity of the arguments used.
I believe there is double counting, perhaps some self flagellation going on. And in the latest conference some stupid principles meant that rather than something being done we got noting being done.
And few talk about the massive increase in coal powered power stations in China.

>>11225406
I'm not going to say climate change is fake because I really don't know the science or data, but I do believe that even if it is real it's not actually that big of a deal. I mean, the earth has been fucked by cataclysmic events before and life seems to have survived just fine. things may change and ecosystems could be destroyed but like that's nothing new, something else will take it's place. I'm all for reducing emissions and not pumping smog into the air as well as switching to renewable sources, but people seem to be getting way too bent out of shape over something that should be a more passive and ideal mid term goal

>>11225421

>>11228938
>I really don't know the science or data, but I do believe that even if it is real it's not actually that big of a deal.

How do you know it isn't a big deal when you just said you don't know the science or the data? Is it your faith?

>>11225406

How these climate change agreements work.
developing countries get to build MORE power plants (but not the worst polluting kind) and their overall pollution increases. Developed nations are expected to DECREASE their pollution.

China get to build new coal burning power plants and make MORE energy
USA is expected to decrease pollution by investing in VERY expensive power plants

>>11229569
>you just said you don't know the science or the data
that was meant for whether climate change is caused by people or whether it is a natural process that would have happened without us. the after effects of a changing climate are what I don't think are a big deal

US is the one country that should care about extreme temperature events.

>>11227261
>>11227266
Because the biggest traffic influx came in late 2011

>>11229569
>I will quote his statement but delete his argument so I can pose as a morally superior with scientific basis.
Nice.

>>11230123
>Wave 5
>Wave 7
Sounds more like Hollywood drama.

>>11225748
>where are all these naturally occurring events that have been happening for thousands of years?

>>11230152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossby_wave

>>11225406
>to stop rising temperatures
i like how you morons say the world is going to end every 5 years then immediately change the goalposts and say its still fixable

>>11226991
>the dust bowl never happened
>the little ice age never happened

>>11226576
shhhhhhhhhh no we have to abolish private property and nations, eat bugs, and live in tents.

>>11227244
may I inquire why did you reply to a retarded post made by a retard?

>>11226804
Wow nice screenshot. I guess climate change is fake.

>>11226576
>$20 billion a year
central banks print 30 times that amount just to prop up banks every year
if this supposedly for "the fate of the world" why in fucks name would a government pay anyone outside of labor to do anything when inimate domain exists?

>>11226930
>>11226804
Obvious false flag is obvious

>>11225409
>>11226503

>>11225406

/leftypol/

Climate change deniers get the rope, always kill a traitor before an enemy.

>>11226991
>that the species never figured out a practical way to keep its numbers down to a manageable level

Of course you're only talking about whites here. The billions of chinese, africans, and Indians, are fine though

>he species will be reduced to a barabaric morsel of its former glory, which will probably have no concept and no use of history, science, or mathematics.

That's already what is happening in the US right now. Climate change doesn't matter because the planet will eventually be nothing but one giant mud race global government ruled by the Chinese

>>11226576
it's funny how alarmists are so concerned about the fate of humanity yet simultaneously so universally lacking in pragmatism... it's almost as if it's more about grant farming than actually doing anything...

>>11231711
Its funny how there are actually people stupid enough to think large scale geoengineering wouldnt cause more problems than it solves.

>>11231755
anything's better than impotent social media grandstanding and pointless non-binding summits that accomplish basically nothing other than goodfeels for white people larping as activists on the sidelines

>>11225409
Watch the gullible retards try to deny this.

>>11226503
>White people you have to give up all technology and rights that you have created because the third world overpopulates and non-whites pollute too much.
I'm just glad the idiots who believe this never had a chance to reproduce, these are the same people who would whip themselves to get closer to God.

>>11226804
This explains all the retarded tier leftist post lately.

>>11227022
This

>>11231876
No, it isnt. If we dont do this properly we are going to fuck ourselves even harder than we already have.
Remember: no matter how bad things are now they can always get worse

>>11226579

>>11230985
>its still fixable
at any point it makes sense to limit the damage that's coming

>>11225421
Seethe.

>>11227728
It's more fuel efficient to travel on a bus-tier 787 packed like a sardine with 300 other plebs.
It's an ecological disaster when you fly with four other rich fucks to your "very important" conspicuous consumption celebrity ball.

If the ultra rich saw climate change as a serious hazard we could avoid, they'd be dumping everything into nuclear. They aren't, therefore they either don't actually care, they don't believe it's real, or they're actually stupid enough to think banning straws and subsidizing solar will fix anything. In any of those cases, these summits are a massive waste.

>>11225409

Get out of /sci/.

As long as climate activists refuse to seriously consider nuclear power, I wont support them. Fuck Greta, she is anti-nuke.

>>11232281
you sure have motivated me to contribute to your next grant check good job

>>11231755
We already started the engine and it can't be turned off. You're saying we shouldn't grab the wheel because we might be worse off than if we just let it ride?

Why should I care about anthropogenic climate change if leftists dont care about semitogenic population change? Thats a bigger threat to me and my people.

>>11232345
I'm saying we should be careful not to crash

News today

>OMG MASSIVE HEATWAVE COMING IN AUSTRALIA
>TEMPERATURES TO SOAR ABOVE 40 DEGREES
>THIS IS A CLIMATE EMERGENCY

This happens literally every fucking year here, totally normal weather, the media shilling is so fucking transparent. Also

>OMG LOOK AT ALL THESE BUSHFIRES EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE
>THIS IS ALL FOSSIL FUELS FAULT

Meanwhile they totally sweep under the rug all the arsonists caught setting bushfires and the fact that's is so fucking easy to do and impossible to catch someone if they do light a fire.

I do think we should stop using fossil fuels but you can get fucked with this eating bugs, moving to megacities and massive taxation bullshit

>>11232335
Yep

>>11225406
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cCxPOqwCr1I&t=20s
Humanity has known for 50 years. 2030-2050 ecological collapse coming right up

>>11232335
>fossil fuel mining

>>11227024
>actual evidence of leftist shilling
vs
>some schizo take on corporations giving a shit about astroturfing on /sci/

>>11227231
As usual leftists believe being smug faggots and talking down to people is an effective persuasion tactic. Greta is no different.

Climate change is real but humans have no capability to stop it. The Sun is causing the planetary climate changes.

>>11232545
Wrong, once the carbon feedback cascades hit. Than humanity will lose control. That happened in 2018-2019

>>11232546
Cool sounds exciting, can't wait for shit to hit the fan.

>>11232546
I can't find the paper published in Nature. Fuck.

>>11226943
I know responding to 3 day old posts is gay, but
>bunkerchan DOT xyz/leftypol/res/71591.html
it's pretty funny reading.
Google exists, there's no excuse for "uhh that's unsourced" about a picture with text

>>11232462
Right now we aren't steering at all. You're the same kind of retard who opposes genetic engineering, right? Because letting the mutations happen randomly is so much better, right?

>>11232672
>Because letting the mutations happen randomly is so much better, right?
Yes...

>>11232710
Okay retard. Enjoy starving, because that's what humans did until agriculture. Do you know what the biggest advancement in early agriculture was?
Was it the plow?
Animal labor?
Silo storage?
No. While all those are important modern developments, the most important early advancement was the use of selective breeding. We've been doing it since prehistory. Literally, it was a process used before written language.

>>11225409
fpbp
The climate change narrative is peak retardation
Its predictions are less accurate than random noise
Everyone involved is financially biased
Even if it were true the proposed counter measure (taxing local, regulated industry) wouldn't decrease supply or demand and would in fact increase emissions dramatically
It has no place on a science board

>>11225406
Everyone knew this shit would happen. Here in Australia 3 states can't even agree on how to manage one river system.

>>11227692
Holy fuck this nigger is/was a congressman what the fuck? He spends a minute and a half or so rambling about the dimensions of guam then says he's afraid it will tip over and capsize, as in fall into the ocean if too many more people go there. And global warming and um coral reefs and um.. environment and um.. i'm concerned

>>11232535
>unsourced screenshot is actual evidence
I could whip up something like >>11226804 in five minutes showing that Somalians are astroturfing /sp/

>>11232545
>The Sun is causing the planetary climate change
>t. useful idiot/oil shill
Total solar irradiance has been going DOWN, not up.

>>11232757
>The climate change narrative is peak retardation
>Its predictions are less accurate than random noise
Wrong.
https://youtu.be/ugwqXKHLrGk

>>11232754
Nice autismo spergsession
Manmade climate change is bogus
Climate has been changing ever since, take your meds schizo

>>11232808
Grand solar minimum soon, enjoy starving.

>>11232827
the earth has survived this in the past...

many times.

>>11232827
So why is the global average temperature still increasing at record pace?
>>11232833
The earth != humanity

>>11232838
>The earth != humanity

We're pretty good at altering the environment to suit our needs, in case you hadn't noticed with all this industrial agriculture....

>But Venus is so hot because of all muh CO2

Imagine unironically using this as a legitimate argument, comparing a planet with 70000mbar pressure of pure CO2 to a planet with 1000mbar pressure and a few hundred ppm CO2, it's laughable.

>>11225406
Climate change and anthropogenic climate change are two different things, the first is a fact and natural process, the second is a hypothesis that hasn't been proven, in fact it has been disproven.

>>11225409
Kek

>>11225406
>When did you realize that Climate change is the great filter

Definitely not. Climate change is only a threat because we refuse to use nuclear.

>>11232875
>the second is a hypothesis that hasn't been proven, in fact it has been disproven.
Fuck off, oil shill.
https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Reminder that Exxon knew about AGW back in th 80s and decided to not only cover it up, but to fund think tanks and lobbyists to spread denial propaganda ever since.

https://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/documents/AQ-9%20Task%20Force%20Meeting%20%281980%29.pdf

CLIMATE MODELING - CONCLUSIONS

LIKELY IMPACTS

- 1C RISE (2005) : BARELY NOTICEABLE

(2019 - 1.1C RISE <--- you live here)

- 2.5C RISE (2038) : MAJOR ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES, STRONG REGIONAL DEPENDENCE

- 5C RISE (2067) : GLOBALLY CATASTROPHIC EFFECTS

>>11232535
>on /sci/
no idea about /sci/, but
>>11232806
same for /g/, and I've seen, first hand, whole military propaganda threads posted across multiple boards (/pol/, /k/, /int/, ...)

>>11232824
What has that got to do with the price of tea in China?

>>11232869
>Imagine unironically using this as a legitimate argument, comparing a planet with 70000mbar pressure of pure CO2 to a planet with 1000mbar pressure and a few hundred ppm CO2, it's laughable.

It’s an example of the greenhouse effect. Your ignorance is laughable.

People keep calling for a shift to nuclear, but aren't resources for that pretty damn limited and reprocessing has never actually worked on a large scale?

>>11232901
how will they dispute this one

>>11233223
Ignoring it and shilling harder

>>11232901

>reminder that climate "scientists" effortlessly morph into Big Oil conspiracy whistleblowers and social scientists able to accurately predict famines, immigration, wars and even economic downturns a fucking century off when challenged

>>11232973

>comparing a Prius to a diesel locomotive
>"they both burn petroleum to power electric motors via an alternator, don't they?"
>"case closed...now hook that line of freight cars to my trailer hitch"

>>11233193
Also issues of scale. The nations that are big on it can do so because they have huge gov funding (not that there's anything wrong with that) and scale+experience with building them. The latter part of scale and experience being a big factor.

>>11233193
Reprocessing has been done on a large scale, to make weapons materials. The reason why reprocessing isn't done with uranium is because of "proliferation risks", despite everyone already having nukes.
All that is history with thorium anyway, which is what we should be dumping R&D into. Gen IIIs are perfectly fine for now (next 50-100 years). We can dump waste in boreholes. Either thorium will be developed or we'll find something else. Fuck, maybe fusion will finally pay off, but I doubt it.

>>11233284
....what?

>>11233306

Smaller words version:
>be on /sci/
>argue with climate alarmist
>suddenly we /x/, /pol/, /biz/, /his/, /int/, etc.

>>11233304
Can you give me source on reprocessing stuff to be reactor viable on a large scale? Last time I tried looking for it I only found lab stuff that was "promising" at best but in no way real-world applicable.

>>11233284
Who are you quoting?

>>11233381

>being so new you don't know board convention is to use greentext not only for quotes, but asides, ad hominems and lists

>>11233315
i mean how does it have anything to do with his post? was it meant to invalidate it?

>>11233403
>was it meant to invalidate it?

It does invalidate it, or rather, you invalidate yourselves.

Stay on topic and quit trying to play ad hominem games, or continue to seethe as the world ignores you.

>>11233327
It's all military secrets, man. Large scale U reprocessing would be done by governments only. They can do it for sure, but actually getting it done has about the same chance of success as actually building a storage repository. Too many old paid oil shills in congress for it to happen.

>>11233443
are you retarded? you are no more qualified to speak on this subject than anyone else. i bet you aren’t even in tertiary education

What bothers me the most is the sheer amount of doom mongering everyone is performing. Yes climate change is a thing but I want to hear what potential solutions we're currently developing to mitigate its effects. I'm sick of people endlessly screeching about how we're all gonna die in X years without proposing a reasonable solution or showing us what potential technologies could happen in the near future. Stop your endless bitching and actually do something about it, Jesus Christ. Is there any way I can find some hope in humanity or are we just going to go down with the ship hooting and hollering about who identifies as what and how that matters more than the actual issue at hand?

>>11232482
Fuckoff shill. The entirety of sydney is about to be surrounded by a wall of flames and all those coal stations near Lithgow are about to get wrekt. See how much you can shill for (((rinehart))) when your electricity gets cut off, fag.

>>11226771

>>11232482
Fuckoff shill. The entirety of sydney is about to be surrounded by a wall of flames and all those coal stations near Lithgow are about to get wrekt. See how much you can shill for (((rinehart))) when your electricity gets cut off, fag.

If you really cared about all the bullshit that they come up with to solve this problem, maybe you should take a closer look at who owns all the money, what they are doing with it and why.

>>11233971
The solutions are constantly given, you're clearly not listening because you don't like them.

>>11234482
Who said I'm wasn't listening to them? In due time advancements in human technology would probably make those solutions more palatable for the public, I guess.

>>11232345
Your analogy is off. Geoengineering is more like stepping on the brakes while the car is still geared and accelerating. It may help us to not crash, but you may also end up fucking your car and burning the brakes

Now while I do think that, I also believe that it doesn't have to be one or the other, it depends on the technology used. If there are geoengineering techniques that don't have a substantial impact on the environment, then I'm all for it, along with measures to reduce CO2 emissions. The problem won't be fixed using only one, magical solution, it has to be tackled from all sides.

>>11233971
>What bothers me the most is the sheer amount of doom mongering everyone is performing.

It's not doom mongering when you realise most of the world is failing to commit to the targets they already agreed are necessary to limit warming to 2 degrees.

>>11233971
>potential solutions we're currently developing to mitigate its effects
There aren't any politically nor economically viable ones
a "green" revolution isn't possible for the scaling or resources required to launch it. Not to mention, the feedback loop means there's nothing we can seriously do to stop collapse.

at the end of the day, the issue is that fossil fuels are drop for drop more efficient than anything else and there's no real incentive to change until the wolf is already eating you. Climate change is always going to be right around the corner until the year you don't get food because crops failed somewhere else.

>>11232482
Bitch we've set a fucking record for the most land burned in a single season and we haven't even peaked for this season yet
The fucking NSW Energy Minister even conceeded that climate change is the problem and is currently copping shit from his own party for calling out the creative accounting of using emissions credits
Nobody is even claiming that the fires themselves are started by climate change directly, the problem is that the fires are harder to control thanks to drier conditions

>>11233971
The ones you're talking about are "environmentalists", fascists, and oil shills. They love a crisis with no fast solution because they can scare people into moving a little bit towards their real goals every time they whip out the "we're all gonna die" shit.
The people with actual solutions are ignored or pilloried with no real counter argument. These people are strongly pro nuclear. They are also strongly pro solar, wind, hydro and geothermal, but they're realistic about how much demand can be met by these resources in an expedient and cost effective manner. Many of us are also proponents of a revenue neutral carbon tax, and believe the global population is the true difficult problem. We think the population should not exceed a few billion, but are generally not sure how to meet that target ethically. The technological solutions we're sure of though. Vehicles can be electric. Fuel for aircraft can be synthesized. Energy will come from the previously mentioned sources.

France seems to have their shit together. Japan understands they've done FAR more than a Fukushima of harm in the last 8 years by burning coal and are turning around. Germany is in fantasy land and are paying the literal price with high energy costs while still burning gas. They're not retarded though, so they'll figure it out eventually. China and India are the biggest problems, as they appear to be acting with short term pragmatism in order to get ahead of other nations. That kind of pure min/max logic is hard to fight because they simply have different goals. The US is a serious concern with the current political climate. It seems the republicans are in complete denial of the problem, and the democrats are on the full retard "green will save us" train to nowhere. Renewable is slowly eating into coal and gas, but they'll always lag far behind the more nimble countries.

>>11225421
>can't redirect to boards
discord raider confirmed

>>11234697
>The people with actual solutions are ignored or pilloried with no real counter argument. These people are strongly pro nuclear.
>nuclear

This meme needs to die. Nuclear is economically unviable in grids with large amounts of variable pricing via renewables. The amount of time during the day that a nuclear plant can make money selling electricity is less and less the more variable generation you add. Even for next-generation reactors with variable output the problem remains, because there are still staggeringly high fixed costs. New nuclear energy, which has long lead times, is going to have to deal with this issue, and in the decade it takes to set up a bunch of new power plants you could just as easily have established mass-storage solutions like pumped hydro. Hydrogen storage, for countries with a lack of options for pumped hydro, will also eventually kill off nuclear.

Nuclear needed to happen decades ago when people still knew about the problem and other options weren't yet available. It isn't a viable option anymore for countries still on fossil fuels.

>>11232892
>Climate change is only a threat because we refuse to use nuclear.

You're goddamn right.

You are only allowed to post ITT if you have a degree in a relevant field

>>11232875

>>11234824
how will they dispute this one
>muh jews scientists are lying
this is gonna become the next flat earther trend

>>11234725
>The amount of time during the day that a nuclear plant can make money selling electricity is less and less the more variable generation you add.
WRONG.
Baseload capacity is always stabilizing. Either renewable will follow the duck curve with batteries or it fails and you need to spin up more peaking. See: Germany. Adding a problem to the grid and saying nuke doesn't work under those circumstances is retarded considering only disgusting peaker plants can keep up when you run out of storage.
Eventually this will be moot, as we'll need a bit more than 4x our current electric capacity to power fuel synthesis for ships, aircraft, and other necessary uses of hydrocarbon fuels. Remember, electric power is a mere third of humanity's total energy consumption. This fuel production can easily be ramped to help balance grid usage, as long as enough baseload is there to cover synthesis demand on the long term (weeks).
Fun fact: Nuclear plants are extremely useful for industrial heat, which is necessary to make fuel synthesis efficient. Synth plants attached to nuke plants makes a ton of sense.
>nuclear energy, which has long lead times
This is an artificiality driven by lobbying and anti-nuke marketing by oil shills.
>staggeringly high fixed costs
Compared to fossil fuel where all the costs are externalized in emissions and solar/wind where many costs are also externalized in emissions (you MUST have ~3x capacity and battery to last a day or more to avoid using gas peaking, and nobody does this because it's absurdly expensive), nuclear is the only actually costs-included source which can be deployed on a large scale. Yes it looks expensive. No, it isn't actually expensively. You're just being given the real bill up front rather than being slammed with fees later.
>pumped hydro
>Hydrogen storage
Memes. Go ahead and run the math. How much water do we need to pump for an hour of night? Both of these are inefficient as well.

>>11234829
I'm more interested in how they obtained reliable data on temperatures going that far back.

>>11234866
>IPCC 2007: WG1-AR4
There's your source and references.

>>11233443
Germany what the hell

>>11234941
It's north-western parts of Germany and all of the Netherlands. It's coupled with fairly high population density too. And similarly, NO2 maps look pretty much the same, see e.g. the Po valley.

>>11235086
>Netherlands
Don't they have the wind things

>>11232806
>I could whip up something like >>11226804 in five minutes showing that Somalians are astroturfing /sp/

>>11232323

>>11233397
You fucking idiot newfag, you don't use greentext for "reminders".

>>11235314
how much of a redditor are you to have this pic saved?

>>11234922
I didn't know they traveled through time.

>>11234941
Germany is the epitome of green signaling with no results. They've dumped enormous money into solar and wind, yet their emissions are absurd and their energy costs are extremely high even compared to the high cost of energy in Europe.

>>11235377
people have been recording the temperature since the 1600s

>>11233971
we don't have politically nor economically viable solutions, you can't have both. You can have nuclear+solar+wind+ hydro for the energy, teach people to stop wasting so much, learn people to recycle, find a solution to plastic, etc.
But there are some bigger problems that will kill us before climate change, Bacterial resistance will be a huge problem in a few years, soils that are no longer fertile + Soil erosion and degradation, combined with the loss of agricultural land to urban sprawl and a booming global population will fuck us hard in few decades. Geopolitical tensions between some nations like India/Pakistan, North korea and South, China/India, China/Japan.

>>11234605
>Geoengineering is more like stepping on the brakes while the car is still geared and accelerating. It may help us to not crash, but you may also end up fucking your car and burning the brakes
This is an excellent analogy, but I'm afraid it will be completely lost on anyone with a destination further away than the local walmart.

>>11232335
sure but as of now renewables are as cheap and as nuclear power. so why not expand those as long as there is still room for groth first ? i mean sure there are limitations for it but until we reach those limitations, renewables are more desirable then nuclear power because its a lot safer and doesn't produce longlasting radioactive waste.

so im fine with trying the renewable route first before seriously ramping up nuclear power.

>>11234697
France has French Africa to get its resources from for cheap (or formerly cheap if teiirorisrs dint target mines)

>>11228728

Kowtowing to a minister? When has it NOT worked?

>>11231755

You cant make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

>>11225748
Clearly you haven't been paying attention to the infernal hell that is Australia

>>11232335

Dont worry. The Russians and the Chinese will corner the nuclear market soon enough.

>>11225423
You will be dead if the planet is inhospitable to complex life. Well, maybe not. You do seem pretty simple.

>>11225499
>>11225421
>Everyone I don't like is /Pol/
/Pol/ here, climate change denial is retarded

>>11238083
You don't represent your base

>>11238057
Australia was always an infernal hell. That's why it's historically populated by petrol huffing abhumans and not actual civilization.

>>11238026
Renewables still kinda suck. Success and failure can be determined via spreadsheet, no need to collapse civilization first. Nuclear has relatively minimal risks, probably fewer than oil/gas.

>>11225409
>>11226804
all the proof I need that climate change is a hoax

>>11238085
It's upped it's game recently you should see it

>>11238092
Renewables have made huge strides and are pretty effective to what they were previously. Nuclear has a lot of risks to it (not related to storage or radiation).

>>11225406
Good. Because after making the mistake of reading r/politics, I'm quite happy for this world to burn. I am lighting a coal fire because it is cold where I live and there is fuckall you can do to stop me.

>>11227027
lmfao you dishonest hack, that thread was subsequently destroyed by actual knowledgable anons ripping apart the sniveling morons who believe in the "electric universe" and all the other stupid low IQ fucking retarded nonsense

>>11231503
This

>>11232335
if this is real, we should legally force everyone to use thorium reactors.
Honestly anyone defending fossil fuel shareholders deserves a bullet

>>11238215
>legally
why ?

>>11238092
>Nuclear has relatively minimal risks
well not exactly. currently we got 11 or so at least partial core meltdowns including two absolutely catastropphical accidents. if we actually were to scale up nuclear energy to provide all the worlds energy, then at that rate we would get one such accident every month with one catastrophical accident like the Chernobyl or the Fukushima accident every half year or so.

And don't start with inherently safe nuclear power plants or something. reasearchers already tried to build those decades ago and failed. i'm only going to believe anything about inherently safe reactors if i see them.

>>11238390
>Chernobyl or the Fukushima accident every half year or so.
Oh yeah, because all the reactors must be built on half a century old designs

>i'm only going to believe anything about inherently safe reactors if i see them.
>but I will bitch and moan so none could be ever built

>>11238390
Contained meltdowns are only a financial risk, and Fukushima killed one person during a tsunami that killed thousands. So the only actual harmful event was Chernobyl, which was some Banqiao tier incompetency yet it only directly killed what, a few dozen? It also sharply shortened the life of hundreds more, and measurably shortened the lives of perhaps a few thousand. Compared to other disasters created by maliciously incompetent governments, it's nothing. Meanwhile every large coal plant still in operation is killing as many people as Chernobyl did, but few people care because it's not "omg nuklear".

There's an objective measurement of how safe a power source is. You take the deaths and divide it by the energy produced. Nuclear is about tied with hydro as the safest when you exclude Banqiao (as you should, it's a clear outlier). If you include Banqiao then nuclear just wins. If you exclude both Banqiao and Chernobyl then nuclear wins by a narrow margin. These are safe sources of power.

>>11238026
>renewables are as cheap
no, theyre fucking not, they require a working fossil fuel infrastructure underneath, theyre literally fashion accessories for sierra club faggots

>>11238478
>they require a working fossil fuel infrastructure underneath

Prove it.

>>11238186
Nice fan fic you retarded nigger. Me telling people I wasn't going to tutor them is not "being destroyed" you fucking wet brained imbecile

>>11225406
Its fictitious. Climate scientists have low IQs and there's no evidence that any state actors are serious about it. Climate hysteria is just a scheme to force governments to borrow money to benefit strategically positioned oligarchs in the banking and green sector, and to promote migration in the form of climate refugees to stabilize first world populations.

>mass global crop failure at 1.5°C
>1.5°C by 2025
>most humans dead by 4°C
>4°C by 2075

I'm about to quit the game. I don't see any improvement in the future.

>>11238810
>not sticking around until at least 2030-40 to watch 25-30% of the planet become non-human habitable due to heat waves
should be interesting

>>11238481

Anything that requires concrete and heavy machinery isnt going to be solar powered. These elements are necessary for rewenable construction.

>>11238317

Fossil fuel industry is everywhere. Green organizations routinely get money from them.

>>11238810
>Going quietly into the night.
Not a real human.

>>11238810

We will just engineer crops that can resist the new envoirment.

>>11238867
for how long?
will they be fireproof?
will humans still be around to eat them if they didn't all die of heatstroke and conscription to the food wars?

>>11238867
>and then hippies who hated GMO died of starvation
neat.

>>11238697
> climate refugees to stabilize first world populations.
lol thats not a climate hoax, thats literally retarded economists trying to force GDP to rise through birthrates falling off (which they should, no one needs more british people) half the immigrants get tired of european bullshit and everything being expensive and move back, the other half require so much monetary assistance just to exist in european countries theyre a net negative on GDP because the fucking last thing the european economy actually needed was a swarm of unskilled laborers only slighlty smarter than an economist who dont speak the local language

>>11226576
That's what will happen. Some western nations are going to take emission reductions seriously and destroy their economy in the process, most of the world will not give two fucks. The planet will keep warming for several decades until the chinks decide to do something about it, which may not work or backfire in some unforeseen way while we deplete our available natural resources.
Humanity is most likely facing extinction. Global warming is probably not even the biggest problem we're facing.

We could just block out the Sun with an array thin-foil mirrors in orbit.

>>11232838
Solar minimums decrease the magnitosphere which contributes to greater solar radiation emited.
https://electroverse.net/another-climate-scientist-with-impeccable-credentials-breaks-ranks/?fbclid=IwAR0CEogwQUtuZ9AsDU_A9-FtuhiiAOEUEZDtySnx10nGzN3j7lmBe7LTiPM

>>11238481
name one self reliant alternative energy that isnt a hydroelectric Dam built 60 years ago

>>11239654
>Solar minimums decrease the magnitosphere which contributes to greater solar radiation emited.
Incorrect, solar minima coincide with minimal solar irradiance. Electric universe is pseudoscience.

>>11239654
>retard has to resort to imaginary fake physics to pretend AGW isn't real
like clockwork

When Al Gore was born there were 7000 polar bears, now only 30000 remain

>>11232335
why is Thor green?