/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11099293
The problem is that we have been sending radio waves to areas of space that are really far away. We should be sending them to closer star systems.

>>11099293
This but unironically
Play Space Engine

>>11099293
>>dude the fermi paradox is bullshit, space is big and radio waves slow....how could we communicate with them!?!?
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

>>11100201
It is for a wojakposter

>>11100201
>The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
For all practical purposes, yes it is.

>>11100438
>For all practical purposes
What do you mean?

>>11100438
No it fucking isn't because there's already a planet with life we know of
You could say that about the moon if you couldn't detect the moons of other planets, doesn't mean they aren't there

>>11099293
>radio waves are slow
radio waves are objectively the fastest thing in the universe idiot.

The Fermi paradox is bullshit because it assumes evolution is linear and progresses towards intelligence when we know that's not fucking true at all and we've known that for like a hundred years. Evolution will happily make you dumb and blind if that's more adaptive. Being a super intelligent social animal with insane dexterity is such a narrow fucking ecological niche that it's a miracle it happened at all. There's your answer, being smart enough to build a radio telescope doesn't actually help you survive in 99.99% of situations. Life is probably super common, but we might be the only technological species in our galaxy.

>>11100458

>We have detected exactly one instance of life in the universe
>We know of exactly one instance of intelligent life in the universe

You can't postulate chances with zero evidence to back it up.

>>11100466
>You can't postulate chances with zero evidence to back it up.
Irony?

>>11100466
We have a hilariously diverse menagerie of life on Earth over billions of years that has rebounded from multiple planetary extinction events and humans are the only technological species to have ever resulted.

>hurr durr we only have one planet with life on it therefore we don't know how common intelligence is despite having a massive sample size of species to work with on that planet
Unless you think natural selection magically works differently on other planets, my argument holds.

>>11100486

>On the one planet we know of with life, we got intelligent life. Ergo, intelligent life is very unlikely to emerge, even with life as a precondition.

How dumb can you be? We have no idea how likely it is to emerge. The anthropic principle makes it a super dumb question to ask without other data points.

Having lots of species is irrelevant. Presumably, other planets would have lots of species as well. Other planets have billions of years. Natural selection works the same everywhere, that's my whole point.

>I lived 60 years alone and broke my legs in an accident once. Ergo breaking one's legs is very unlikely, I'm the only one in a population of a billions who ever broke my legs!

>>11100511
There is zero, ZERO reason to believe intelligent life evolved on other planets, given how rare it is on Earth.

>I lived 60 years alone and broke my legs in an accident once
We don't live alone you dumb fuck, we share this planet with BILLIONS of species, living and dead. One (1) of these BILLIONS of species has undergone a cognitive revolution. In billions of years. That's the simple answer to the Fermi paradox. You refuse to accept it because you've deluded yourself into a near religious belief in linear evolution that will magically always create intelligence. It does not. We have observed evolution and it literally does not work like that.

>Having lots of species is irrelevant. Presumably, other planets would have lots of species as well.
And therefore the ridiculously unlikely conditions that created a warm blooded, intelligent, social, tool using, culturally adaptive species with the energy budget for a massive fucking brain occurs on every planet? Have you ever taken a stats class in your life?

There is no reason to think intelligence is common beyond outdated notions of linear progressive evolution. Zero. None. The Fermi paradox is a non-paradox.

"dude we dunno therefore aliens" is fucking retarded. We have a sample size of billions of species. We don't see giant walking trees, so we don't assume giant walking trees occur everywhere. But we dunno, dude, so there's like, a giant walking tree paradox, my dude. No, fuck you.

Let's say there were aliens on Mars.
With the same technology as us.
Just try to imagine working out a way to communicate with an ALIEN species with radio communication, it would be insane. How would you start ? Binary machine code lol, it would take years to just work out yes and no.
For real have a look at the gold record they put on voyager, it's confusing as hell. And the aliens are supposed to listen to the record and interpret it as music.... How are they going to know how fast to play the record, what if the aliens don't have ears and can't hear sound, what if they think the record is an instruction to build a Stargate.
How long does it take a human to learn another language and that's similar to there own, alot of people find it impossible to learn Chinese. Another human language.

We can never communicate with aliens. It's a fantasy.

If aliens had incredible technology all they have to do is enclose a sun with some kind of shield. And have it make the star to appear to blink on and off.
And every civilisation for hundreds of light years could see it. And know exactly where it was coming from.
And also, all the aliens would be long dead once you got the message.

>>11100458
Dolphins are pretty damn intelligent and their intelligence evolved separately from humans. In fact it's even possible that they have the right kind of brains to become an advanced civilizations - what they lack is the proper limbs and environment (oceans are not very good for learning to manipulate fire). But even if not, to me they seem too intelligent for intelligence to be the great filter - if it has happened twice or once and almost for another time here, it can't be that unlikely.
Or else the closest common ancestor between humans and dolphins was already past that barrier - a creature probably roughly around some rodent-level intelligence at best.

>>11100750
>you can think up these oddities
>which means humanity can think up these oddities
>but aliens couldn't
The voyager record will be a mere gesture received by no one, but because of the scale of the galaxy not because aliens potentially millions of years older couldn't figure it out
>never
Fucking brainlet word

>>11100765
>And also, all the aliens would be long dead once you got the message.
Probably tends to happen if you broadcast your presence

>>11100783
cringe theory

>>11100774
Sure, but dolphins are never going to create fire, for reasons I hope are obvious. Our level of technology is just a list of requirements that only humans fully fill out. You need to be land based or you'll never work metal. You need to a high level of dexterity. You need to be a social species with culturally transmitted knowledge, or progress won't happen. You need language. You need enough surplus energy to power you big boy brain. All of these are needed just to get to the point where might start writing things down. Humans are so mind bogglingly unlikely that it seems simple why the Fermi Paradox exists. Life is common, civilization isn't.

>>11100889
We have no idea how common life is. I think life itself, or perhaps life more complex than bacteria (as that step took way more time on Earth than the appearance of simple life), is the simpler explanation if we are looking for one great filter. There doesn't need to be one though, it could be that the filters just stack so that in total the likelihood of an advanced civilization is very unlikely. But a scenario where Earth's ecosystem is otherwise not that weird except for humans seems unlikely to me.

>>11099293
There are undoubtedly numerous other intelligent life forms out there in the universe. However, it is almost certain we will never come into contact with them or even discover them.

Also, super advanced sci-fi civilizations do not exist. Any sufficiently advanced civilization would have been able to colonize an entire galaxy by now. The fact that we've detected no such thing means that kind of technology is literally impossible to achieve.

There is a great filter and no life in the universe has ever gotten past it

>>11100722

First off, you have no idea about this species' evolutionary history. There were plenty of proto-humans such as Neanderthals. Our species outcompeted them all, we monopolized the intelligent-species niche and exploited it. Several species went down the cognitive revolution path, we bred/exterminated them.

Why are there no record of previous intelligent species? BECAUSE WE'RE THE FIRST AND LAST. If there'd been super-clever civilization-capable dinos, they would've formed a civilization and we'd never have had a chance to exist. Learn about the anthropic principle. Intelligence is far faster than evolution.

So what if a small group of hominid species took the path of intelligence? There are BILLIONS of planets, some of whom must be life-capable. It's not unreasonable that some might have the same conditions as Earth and create a sort-of-monkey. We don't know how possible this is, because we haven't found any life outside of Earth.

And besides, what if you don't need to be warm-blooded? What if there are other possible ways to become a civilization that we don't know about and can't think of?

And finally:

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20151207-ecuadors-mysterious-walking-trees

>>11100988

>Implying we aren't inside their simulation.

Think about it. They colonized the galaxy, they turned everything into computronium. Every star a Matrioshka brain.

What would you do with unlimited mass and energy? Rerun an ancestor simulation perhaps? Run a trillion ancestor simulations? Return to the days of politics and economics and philosophy and scarcity, before anyone could do whatever they wanted.

>>11101043
Do we get to fuck the ancestors?

>>11101053

Well obviously we don't. We post on 4chan.

>>11100466
your lack of self-awareness is hilarious

>>11100456
When you post a retarded wojak picture with greentext the idea is you *don't* agree with the greentext.

>>11100456
Their speed is still bounded, and in terms of the distance traveled per a human lifetime it is very slow indeed

>>11101055
Their mating ritual is actually entirely shitposting. We're the only ones on Earth who could hope to land a mate from them.

>>11100988
>There is a great filter and no life in the universe has ever gotten past it
yet. Space race between us and a hypothetical civilization when

>>11099293
>space
https://youtu.be/YjvmIFrX1xQ

There is no space. It's a white ploy to oppress POC.

I can't wait till we find aliens so all you fermi paradox retards can shut the fuck up

>>11100452
>No it fucking isn't because there's already a planet with life we know of
So?

>>11100445
When the probability of evidence being present is nonzero.

>>11099293
You and many other people just fail to understand what fermi paradox actually is. Our galaxy is billions of years old. A civilisation mastering space-flight and nuclear fusion should be able to spread over all suitable planet in less then a million years. So the question is: Why is there no galactic empire and why are we not part of it?

>>11101840
You're being trolled, this is a debate class
Someone usually has to play devil's advocate in a debate class

>>11102079
We are the first.

What if we're like an uncontacted tribe to the galactic empire civilization? What if they don't reach out to us because they want to leave us alone and not interfere with our development?