/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10968779
first for DEPOTS

>>10968784
I don't need you to tell me how fucking good my propellant depot is, okay? I'm the one who launched it, I know how good it is. When Shelby launches, he launches shit. Me, I launch the gourmet economically viable stuff because when I launch it, I want to use it. But you know what's on my mind right now? It ain't the propellant in my depot, it's the dead sls in Michoud.

>>10968794
DEAD PROPELLANT STORAGE

Spaceflight General: /sfg/ - Forgotten Backlink Edition
>>10965512

Underwhelmed by the Space Force funding announcement to be honest lads. Are they trying to do it all as under the radar as possible.

STILL TWO FUCKING WEEKS UNTIL STARSHIP PRESENTATION

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Only two weeks until Starship Presentation.


The 2017 presentation doesn't seem so long ago and already we're going to see them.

Propellant depots need to be supplied by extra terrestrial fuel refineries.

We should start mining ice on the moon for hydrogen, oxygen, and water.

>>10969249
Propellant depots do not need extraterrestrial fuel sources, especially if they are in Earth orbit, as they damn well should be. Mining of lunar ice is good but lets not put cart before the horse.

>>10969259
What is the advantage over Starship Tanker refueling?

>>10969260
Easier scheduling.

presentation in 15 days
earliest possible test in 30 days

>>10969315
It isn't though, you can just refill a tanker in orbit before you send up your Starship, no giant retarded fuel depot construction project required.

>Alternate universe, 2018
>Falcon Heavy does its test launch
>Both side boosters sucessfully land
>Centre core actually lands and is recovered
>SpaceX developed fairing recapture earlier also and catch them
>2nd stage + Starman yeeted off into space.
>Fast forward to 20XX.
>Starship 2.0 ventures out and recovers Starman and returns it to Earth.
>Reassemble the entire stack once again and display it as a monument

If only.

>SLS will never fly
>Orion will never fly
>JWST will never fly
>NASA/Boeing/ULA eat billions of dollars a year in funding with nothing but cost overruns and delays

Any more rumours about SEALON? Someone suspected disused oil rigs as a launchpad.

>>10968794
this dude looks like arthur c clark without the thicc rims

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1172215123777216512

Look at that throttling towards the end

so let's say that hypothetically starship fails(N1'd), starlink fails(ground antennas too expensive/inter-sat comms get fucky), or Musk dies. Is space cancelled?

We always gave ULA shit for this picture, but ULA got shit from Shelby for it because of depots.

>>10969588
No. SpaceX can keep afloat with F9s unless the company gets into some serious issues. While progress will be slower, SpaceX has already disrupted the launch market and has shown that improvements can be made (ex: reuse). Old space can whine and fight it, but the cost cutting advantage of reuse is clear and others will try to get on that idea for their own profit. This will lower launch costs and thus increase access to space which is always a good thing.

>>10969588
If all three happened, it wouldn't even cancel Spacex. Shotwell would probably reorient towards lunar infrastructure with FH and a later big rocket learning from the hypothetical failings of SS/SH, and Starlink has still produced a very useful mass-produceable and easy to deploy satellite chassis that could be reworked as a modular customized-to-order low cost option.

If Spacex did die, Blue Origin would take its sweet time but eventually be the new titan of private space. The timeline would be shifted 10-15 years but it's not doomsday.

>>10969332
So the tanker is the fuel depot..

>>10969625
This. Spaceflight is at a point where a single issue won't stop it, unlike what happened right after Apollo.

>>10969595
Some of us old-timers remember what spaceflight was like before SpaceX came along. ULA was like a SpaceX-lite in many aspects. Atlas V Phase II and ACES was the Starship to Constellation's and Shuttle's SLS. It is all water under the bridge now, and good riddance, too.

>>10969659
>Constellation
I'm sad every time I remember.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/13/20863143/bigelow-aerospace-b330-inflatable-space-habitat-nasa-nextstep-astronauts?utm_campaign=lorengrush&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Bigelow’s next-generation inflatable space habitat is shooting for the Moon

>>10969467
Kek I thought it was initially.

Reminder, ULA CEO believes Elon is a fraudster.

>>10969747
>Reminder, ULA CEO believes Elon is a fraudster
Source? Or is that screencap the source? Either way, I don't understand Tory's response to that comment. "Ahem"? What did he mean by that?

>>10969747
>Reminder, ULA CEO believes Elon is a fraudster.

Does not follow. Tory Bruno only seems to care that he got left out of the "who is like Tony Stark" comparison.

>>10969747
He is responding to "CEO closest to real life Tony Stark" line, not bashing Elon. Also, Tory posts regularly in all kinds of space related subreddits, including meme ones.

>>10969758
>source
The Reddit elon hate subreddit, one of them.

>>10969788
r/enoughmuskspam?

>>10969788
r/thunderf00t?

>>10969625
>Starlink has still produced a very useful mass-produceable and easy to deploy satellite chassis that could be reworked as a modular customized-to-order low cost option.

I'm wondering how long it'll be until they announce this service. Seems inevitable, really.

>>10969221
>>10969166
Behold, the duality of man!

>>10969937
How much does he really hate SpaceX? I thought he just didn't like Ol' Musky? For example, I swore somebody here said that he thought that reusable rockets weren't possible.

pluto in true color

>>10969970
I figure he originally dedicated his hate towards Musk himself, but now that he's been humiliated so many times, he now hates absolutely anything even tangentially related to Musk, and is psychologically incapable of regarding it positively
its similar to Trump Derangement Syndrome, wherein the subject doesn't matter at all, the association with the arch-enemy is what blacklists it

>>10969983
Idk. I haven't heard him say something as stupid as what the head of the Commercial Spaceflight Federation saying that SpaceX closing airspace for their launches is bad even though every other launch provider does that.

>>10969995
Correction because I have failed at proofreading.
>as the head of the Commercial Spaceflight Federation saying

https://twitter.com/nhk_news/status/1172468291618725888?s=19

meanwhile in Japan...

>>10970102
I have personally led more successful space programs than that. At least mine only got stuck in a tree.

Musk's shit will only pretend to go to Mars, with no shit onboard.

Then they'll say it's unsafe for 10 years.

>>10970217
>meme nonsense
Fuck, even if it's a rover truck for a decade think of the sheer quantity of automated hardware you could fly to Mars on Starship.

>>10970227
This. With a cheap 100t to LEO launcher, payloads can be made much more reliable and capable. You would no longer have to do extreme stuff to your spacecraft in order to meet strict mass requirements such as using very expensive lightweight materials or cutting down bolts and washers. More stuff could be done in space even if its only done in the Earth-Moon system.

The future is looking bright.

>>10970217
>SpaceX before doing something
Its impossible to do that

>SpaceX after doing something
Well they're standing on shoulder of giants. SpaceX didn't do anything. Elon is a fraudster. Fake reusable/mars/moon/rocket/cheap rocket landing.

>>10970227
I know, but I think the buthurt will drag everything a decade or so.

>>10970238
Yeah, suck some dicks.
If you're retarded enough to thing Starship is akin to Saturn 5, you should hang yourself on the spot.
I never said it wouldn't work.
I said we're not prepared to have useful payload on it.

>>10970250
You're not the first one to claim SpaceX will fail. They've been told that even before Elon created the company. For 20 years straight, hundreds and thousands of people have chimed in, "SpaceX will fail" in a regular interval. There is nothing new is to this formula. Just replace Starship with SpaceX/Private/Successful/Propulsive/Falcon1/Falcon9/FalconHeavy/Dragon/CrewDragon/etc.

You're just part of the long list of shorts that will continue to be shat on, year after year.

>>10970258
He does have a point though. There aren't alot of payloads out there that need a 100t to LEO rocket. And most of those payloads are tied up with SLS. Developing payloads is a slow process and the wait for BFR sized payloads may slow down SpaceX substantially.

It won't doom them though unless something bad happens to them in the meantime.

>>10970258
Look, they don't have any Mars hardware.
They're only making a Mars rocket, hoping others will buy into it.
Let's b honest, this will be waste money for at least 5 decades.

>>10970272
Fuck off retard

>>10970266
As the saying goes, if you build it they will come.
Plus there's always Starlink which is a perfect type of payload for this.

>>10970278
Tell me why?

>>10970272
>Let's b honest, this will be waste money for at least 5 decades.
Not really. If BFR is going to be even close to being as cheap as SpaceX promises, then it would make a killing in non-Mars payload markets. 100t to LEO isn't nothing to treat lightly.

>>10970279
True. Abit of a gamble, but could work.

>>10970266
There are two avenue for SpaceX. Contracts via government/commercial and Satellite internet. Ideally, SpaceX wants both of these to succeed, but they're not banking on either one, they're doing both and reducing the risk.

>>10970266
There is no point. The size of a fully reusable rocket only impacts the complexity of manufacture, concurrently with the complexity of the structure. If the vehicle is fully reusable, there is no loss in flying it mostly empty unless the charge to customers for the launch is insufficient to pay for the R&D and amortized manufacturing costs.

>Bigelow is no longer planning to send tourists to the ISS in four SpaceX Crew Dragon flights - at least for the foreseeable future
>His reasoning there was quite interesting -- NASA might have published their prices but the logistics of actually visiting aren't as straightforward.
https://twitter.com/lorengrush/status/1172554069908414464

NASA killing the dreams of commercial astronauts. Hopefully they can fix it before all opportunities are lost.

>>10970279
Does SpaceX has Mars Base Hardware?
0 indications of that.
They just have the rocket. Potentially.

>>10970217
Literally just a Starship full of instruments will be the most impressive thing we've ever landed. Viking but BIG. It could even hop around.

>>10970293
Guess I misclicked.
meant for that retard.>>10970278

>>10970272
Mars hardware is not magic unicorn. Its simple hardware with little more protective measures. You can build mars hardware on Earth today, its not an issue of know-how or even cost. Any engineer/scmuck can build a mars hardware if they have the right specs/data.

>>10970293
>Does SpaceX has Mars Base Hardware? 0 indications of that.
I'd tell you about some of his other ventures that are relevant here, but you might find the specifics quite Boring.

>>10970296
Yeah, and then nothing will happen.
Because nothing was planned.

Oh look blunderf00t is in the thread

>>10970304
why are you claiming there's no plan when elon is going to tell us the plan in two weeks

>>10970293
>Does SpaceX has Mars Base Hardware?
They have the platform to build one. Heck, they may just use the first few Starship as a mars base hardware.

>>10970302
Look, t this point, all we know is they gonna launch a new species of rockets, being all steal and stuff.
They don't have a fucking clue how it makes it past orbit.

>>10970301
Most of it is just adjusting mechanisms for very low temperatures (yet poor heat dissipation) and adjusting ergonomics for someone in a pressure suit.

>>10970309
Because it's gonna be things SpaceX doesn't do, and honestly, nobody's interested in doing.

>>10970309
Because Elon Man bad.

>>10970291
Bigelow is a retard, he immediately booked 4 flights on Crew Dragon as soon as NASA’s commercial ISS policy was released thinking he could make a quick buck by treating the station as a space hotel, all without properly reading the guidelines which explained carefully what kind of commercial visitors NASA were allowing e.g. people from private companies doing zero-g research.

>>10970317
>NASA has been aiming for Mars for years
>"Nobody is interested in Musk's Martian spaceship."

>>10970312
>They don't have a fucking clue how it makes it past orbit
What? Mars EDL and orbital refueling are integral parts of Starship's design. The first finished Starship will be able to go to Mars without any additional hardware. It's what they bring to Mars that hasn't been announced yet.

>>10970317
Just hold the doomer pessimism until the 29th. I strongly suspect the first Mars infrastructure plans will be part of the upcoming presentation. Elon doesn't care about making money out of Mars. Mars is the end goal, Starlink is the funding mechanism.

>>10970324
>doomer
You've gotta explain this one. I'm getting multiple different definitions of this.

>>10970334
blackpill, defeatist, sadboy, assuming worst possible outcomes because the world is shitty

Stop replying to him, Jesus this general is so easily baited

>We’re sending a CubeSat to the same lunar orbit targeted for Gateway as early as next December! @AdvancedSpace and @TyvakNanoSat will rapidly develop and build the vanguard mission. I’m excited to have two more U.S. small businesses be part of #Artemis
https://twitter.com/JimBridenstine/status/1172540053962272770

Bridenstine is desperate to get any progress towards the Moon as he can. I respect his efforts. At least he tries to push manned spaceflight forward.

>>10970339
I'd rather respond to bait with actual spaceflight discussion than have a dead thread filled with unreplied to bait and not much else

Look, I'm gonna try to make it what SpaceX's offer is like.
You can go to Africa and we won't be able to do shit.
Good luck>>10970338
Then you know even astronauts will get plagued with this shit, and we won't move forwards.ck.

>>10970357
shoo shoo schizo

>>10970361
Why isn't nigeria in space right now?

>>10970342

>>10970365
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Space_Research_and_Development_Agency
they are

>>10970365
>He doesn't know about wakanda

>>10970365
>>10970372
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NigComSat-1
>NigComSat-1

>>10970372
>>10970373
You know what I mean.

>>10970386
I literally don't because you keep schizoposting
>>10970357
>Look, I'm gonna try to make it what SpaceX's offer is like.
>You can go to Africa and we won't be able to do shit.
>Good luck>>10970338
>Then you know even astronauts will get plagued with this shit, and we won't move forwards.ck.

like are you fucking comparing mars to africa or are you saying nobody can do things in space because niggers can't or what

Nigeria is the India of African spaceflight.

>>10970361
It is very likely that we are living in a simulation.

>>10970400
whether we live in a simulation is no more relevant than whether god or russel's teapot exist

>>10970397
I mean we could have SpaceX free access to Mars tomorrow, and we wouldn't know what to do with it.
We're too retarded for it.

map of current probes and their locations

>>10970407
But what's your actual argument? Africa can't into space, so nobody can? Support "we're too retarded for it". Because I see no reason a company with the technology base to access Mars couldn't also exploit Mars.

>>10970416
No, I was making fun of you.
You have to leave some humanity behind when you're gonna do progress.
And niggers are a fucking drag, facts.

>>10970423
Nobody is arguing we're moving all of humanity to Mars. I don't think the person you're trying to make fun of actually exists.

Looks like they found part of the booster from that Chinese launch from the other day.

>>10970428
Yeah, you only addressed half the problem.
Don't forget where you are.

big fucking rocket

>>10970438
It's gonna look pretty much like that when it flies, which is gonna be glorious. Giant stainless steel dented trash can flying above airliners.

>>10970435
Don't chink boosters use hydrazine and tetroxide? I wouldn't stand that close.

>>10970435
SMART reuse

>>10970446
The tank sections should smooth out a bit when pressurised but yeah gonna look like shit lmao.

windshield (hangar) is almost done. they have been working hard past 2 days

>>10970341
A cubesat by next December. Jesus.

I think I saw somewhere that an expendable F9 can put at least some amount of useful payload in lunar orbit. How many purpose-kitted Starlink sats could one launch to gateway orbit, I wonder?

>>10970147
sugar rockets rech 40 kilometers and that shit can't even lift lmao

>>10970407
>We're too retarded for it.
Well, you clearly are. Plenty of people aren't.

>>10970490
Yeah, name a few. you're welcomed.

>>10970499
>that other anon
>my dad
>my dad's boss at nintendo

>>10970516
Yeah, that's what I thought.

>>10970524
Ask stupid questions, get stupid answers.

>>10970535
That's stupid, because then I don't know if you're really stupid.
Name projects that would benefit from Starship that ae actually going on.
Have a fucking clue, it's zero.

>>10970546
>name people
>name projects
name goalposts

>>10970557
Yeah, it's all stupid.
At least It's enough for me.
Why do you even browse /sci/?

>>10970481
>A cubesat by next December.
That's the NET date. To be fair though, the cubesat is rather large (12U), goes into deep space where cubesats don't normally go, and is a science mission to study how to refine the Gateway.

>>10970565
Still, a refit of some Starlink sats could put much more capable hardware up there in less time, and likely cheaper.

>>10970452
Compared to walking around in traffic or a factory? Have you seen the webm threads?

>>10970410
cool

>>10968779
Ayo, where do you guys think we can find exotic matter?

>>10970705
In exotic places.

>>10970709
please stop, that's not funny

>>10970705
Define "exotic matter", there's so many different types.

>>10970435
RIP camera man. No doubt touched it too.

>>10970709
with exotic dancers

>>10970738
The type can be used to power warp drives

>>10970740
no

>>10970742
Then you mean matter with negative mass? If so, then I doubt it can be found "naturally" anywhere considering it's very existence seems to mess up reality worse than what hydrazine does to the human body.

>>10970784
Then how do we make it?

>>10970438
Will it be presentable in time for the presentation?

>>10970799
We probably don't. There's no reason to believe it exists other than the fact it's not specifically ruled out.

>>10970905
That's the plan

Anon who's making his own rocket engine here. Found a supplier who can sell me sterling silver wire for my catalyst, for cheap too. But it still feels abit expensive. $50 for 5ft of 14 gauge. I was thinking of using electrical resistors as a cheaper alternative to starting the engine.

Starting decomposition is all they need to do, because nitrous decomposes by itself at around 1070 F (the chamber is expected to produce more that twice that), so I need (a) resistor(s) that can reach that temp and survive for at least 5 seconds. Unfortunately, I'm not an electrical engineer so this is new territory for me

What do you guys think? I'll stick with the silver design simply because it's the most simple system, but if the electrical starter is much cheaper, then I'll go for that.

Thanks.

Also, as an update. About looking for valves, I was being stupid and not looking at the same place where I got my nos tank for nos plumbing (i.e. racing stores). They don't have AN stuff (only NPT by the looks of it), but I'll just get an adapter for it.

>>10970966
If you're going the resistive heating route, look up resistive heating wire for heat treating furnaces. Those will easily get to the temperature range you're looking for. (NiCr and FeCrAl wire and strips)

>>10971136
That's actually a brilliant idea. Thank you!

So something like this? https://www.mcmaster.com/3618K412

>>10971174
>https://www.mcmaster.com/3618K412
That's a little pricey, I'm thinking something like this stuff:
https://www.kanthal.com/en/products/materials-in-wire-and-strip-form/wire/resistance-heating-wire-and-resistance-wire/list-of-fecral-alloys/
or less fancy, nichrome wire
https://www.mcmaster.com/nickel-chromium-wire

>>10971226
Can I just get nichrome wire, wire it to an electrical connection, and it just works? Or is there a special treating process before it becomes a heating element?

If it's that simple, then I might just use that rather than the silver catalyst. It seems much safer than using silver. Although I foresee an issue with the wiring in making sure that the current doesn't try to pass into the iron chamber rather than the heater inside.

Again, thank you!

>>10970287
Starship doesn't need to put 100 tons into LEO to cost less than Falcon 9 to launch. It could put a lunchbox into orbit for cheaper than a Falcon 9.

>>10970306

>>10971259
>lunchbox
You mean a food-depot? Nice try bucko, but that's unamerican.

>>10971246
Making an electrical connection that will survive heating is tricky, but it's workable. It's more like making a weld than soldering.
But yes, this stuff is basically toaster wire. It's cheap and gets really fucking hot without failing.

>>10971298
>>10971246
Clarification: looks like the most foolproof way to connect to nichrome to lesser wiring is a crimp, something bare metal like a butt connector will do.

>>10971298
>Making an electrical connection that will survive heating is tricky
Do you mean the heating from the element or from the engine? Because the engine is only going to be firing for 5 seconds at most (due to propellant tank size limitations), so the electrical wiring only needs to survive for about a couple seconds before the nos gets injected into the chamber and up until the engine is hot enough for a self-sustained reaction.

What I'm intending here is to have the heater and the wiring going inside the engine be expendable to reduce complexity. That's one of the big reasons why I want to reduce costs. The wiring can be simple with some insulation to avoid having it contact the engine walls. Then it goes up the engine nozzle into the chamber where it connects to the heating element. The element can perhaps be attached to the chamber wall in some way as to prevent it from just being shot out of the engine from the propellant pressure before it had a chance to heat the propellant. Hopefully by the time the heating element and wire melt away the engine can operate without it.

>>10971345
The element
>>10971312
You've got to have something to get the electrons into the wire to make it hot.

>>10968794
I read that in Tarantinos voice

I think there's good odds Boca Chica stacks this week.

Great things have small beginnings...

>>10971752
What am I looking at

>>10971772
starship launch pad at 39a?

>>10970293
>Does SpaceX has Mars Base Hardware?

Yes they do. It is called Starship. That is the base and a habitat, too.

They are actively working on solar power and ISRU technology as part of the Starship system, too. These double as power system and energy storage for the Base. They are also actively working on life support system, using experience gained from Crew Dragon.

What more do you need?

>>10970293
>mars base hardware

stainless steel water tanks will do fine on mars

>>10968779
Is the Turd Burglington there on the right or is that guy cool?

>>10969653
people get sticks up their bums about calling anything with aerofeatures a "station" or "depot" just because it comes back to Earth after it's done

>>10969978
nice iceball

>>10970322
>Bigelow is a retard
yes, we've known this for a while
>>10970966
a "resistor" at that temperature is just a bit of steel wire, anon

>>10971752
source?

Boca leg?

Boca dome going in

>>10969378
Orion already flew, twice.

>>10972281
boilerplate does not count

>>10972257
>mfw

>>10972257
So this is the last part of the bulkhead and therefore the last ring. Next is fixing canards and stacking the thing. Legs can get attached anytime.

The final version of the rockets better not look like this welded together trash.

>>10972285
then neither does starhopper or any of these prototypes with no functional interior

>>10972297
GOING TO SPACE IN A PILE OF FUCKING WELDED TOGETHER TRASH, BITCH
AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT

>>10972300
no, a rocket without an interior is a useful rocket
a crew capsule without an interior is dead weight
a crew capsule with an interior is expensive dead weight

>>10972305
>a rocket without an interior is a useful rocket
What?

>>10972301
I think you forgot to add a proper noun at the beginning of your sentence. I'll let you try again, one more time.

>>10972309
subjects are optional
>>10972307
>What?

How quickly could you send stuff between Earth and Mars if you built a giant railgun in Earth's orbit? Basically a giant low-friction ring around Earth kind of like the rings of Jupiter.

>>10972297
the worse looking starship is, the greater the lmaos at boomerspace

>>10972245
https://twitter.com/julia_bergeron/status/1172896260241666054
not that exact picture, but source on the construction

>>10969693

That looks like a level in a Portal game.

>>10969978
Obviously a planet. Fuck haters.

>>10972297
Worse, it'll be a giant trash can with a pointy water tower strapped to it and it will be glorious.

>>10972415
i hope they stencil ACME SPACE ROCKET on the side

>>10970410
Wait, did Vikram lander survive in this timeline?

>>10970474
Where did they get the transparent aluminum?

>>10971259
So out of curiosity, how many second-hand Teslas could it put up? I have a hankering to see a fucking traffic jam IN SPACE!!!

Elon, if you are reading this you know you want to do it...

>>10972432
A Model S is about 2250 kg at most. So about 44, but you'll probably run out of volume first.

>>10972424

They procured it from a little outfit in San Francisco which just up and discovered a very efficient fabrication process way back in 1984. Dude is rich now, not crazy rich but very, very comfortable.

Very strange how he came up with something so advanced all by himself.

>>10972300
Not sure what Starhopper is supposed to count for anyway. It proved rockets work, which we already knew.

Pretty obviously a stunt.

Not that this has any impact on whether or not SpaceX will succeed in flying SS, and on what time frame.

>>10969978
Have a (You) for not posting false color

>>10972418
I like the cut of your jib.

>>10972435
>So about 44,

A good start.

>but you'll probably run out of volume first.
Strap them to the outside, for additional lulz.

>>10972436
Disregard everything this poster says, he did too much LDS in the '60s.

Do you think Elon will land a Tesla on Mars as boilerplate cargo?

>>10972311
don't be a retard.

>>10972436
A material like that would've taken years to study the dynamics its matrix. The inventor of it must've been truly a miracle worker.

>>10972486
Boilerplate? They‘ll jury rig some stuff to it and it‘ll go further in half an hour than any mars rover ever has.

>>10972486
Would be neat if he could put a satellite in mars orbit and then a transmitter once it lands for communication.

>>10972382
you mean genx space?

>>10972536
there are only 2 generations
boomers and zoomers
old and young

>>10972296
>>10972257

>>10972493
How is that idea retarded?

>>10972257
We're gonna make it rocket frens

All of the bulkheads are in. Now, it needs three engines, fins/legs, thrusters, perhaps a big avionics cluster with batteries and whatnot. Seems that they'll make the planned October flight if it all goes smoothly.
Launchpad still needs lots of work though

what does /sfg/ think of the Moon fishing line? Apparently we could stretch a really, really, long piece of fishing line from the Moon's surface to the height of geostationary orbit:
https://arxiv.org/abs/1908.09339
And we might even be able to get stuff to and from the Moon with it.

>>10973046
isn't that just a space elevator?

do you pronounce it "Urinis" or "UR ANUS"?

>>10973046
the Lunar Elevator goes from the Lunar surface to EML1 or EML2, and can be used to lift shit off the surface

>>10973051
it's a piece of fishing line we could put a space elevator on.
>>10973059
This is a different type of space elevator. It goes to the height of geostationary orbit. It can be build with a single thread of fishing line in the simplest case.

>>10973057
obviously you pronounce it YOUR ANUS

>>10973062
lunar elevators go to EML1 or EML2, and can be built with a piece of fishing line, yes

>>10973057
U RECTUM

>>10973057
It’s pronounced “ur-anus”. You don’t pronounce Uranium as “Urinium”.

>>10973062
I actually bothered to click on that link and that looks dumb as shit

Billionaire Yusaku Maezawa resigns to train for SpaceX moon flight
MADMAN
https://www.businessinsider.com/yusaku-maezawa-zozo-ceo-resigns-sells-yahoo-spacex-starship-flight-2019-9?IR=T

>>10969978
nice non-planet plutoid body you posted there lad

>>10972257
it's completeeeeed

>>10970705
in ur mom's vagene

>>10973111
absolute unit
also checked

>>10973111
uncut > cut

>>10973111
>ur mom's dildo's here

>>10973057
It's OO-RAN-os

>>10973111
T A L L

>>10973111
When's that expected to fly?

>>10973163
oktober

>>10973111
what is the final height?

>>10973180
beeg

>>10972405
>DOES NOT EXIST

>>10973111
are we really sending people to mars on a giant toilet paper roll

>>10973218
>we

>>10973218
YES

>>10973225
humanity

>>10973247
fuck yeah

>>10973218
hell yeah my nigga

>>10973218
>chrome toilet paper roll
How wealthy are you?

>>10973247
>humanity
Its a SpaceX venture alone at this rate. So humanity can FUCK OFF.

>>10969983
Any examples of him being humiliated? I need the laugth

>>10973384
No. Literally every single person, all 7 billion, will ride on a Starship at the time for the very first launch of a BFR stack. So if something goes wrong, then Elon's KDR would beat Mao by far. Lot's of pressure on SpaceX.

Even /g/ has been taken by pajeets. The moon too. What else will be pooed?
>>>/g/72742243

>>10973413
let's be honest here, the word "cringe" should be a bannable offense

>>10973415
Cringe.

>>10973413
>Cringe
That's a one whole yike from me.

Starship is days away from being closer to flight than SLS. How long will the Starship core stage take before it's green run?

>>10973420
ngl I defended the notion that SLS would launch before BFR, but it seems like things are changing. I still think it's the case, but it seems like there's a chance that BFR will be first. Pretty interesting.

Also, what the hell is Michoud doing wit the core stage? I thought I was done months ago. What's holding them back?

>>10973413
The lunar probe would not have failed if they had used free open source software

>>10973436
The SLS core hasn’t been finished yet, they’re going to attach the boat tail this week and the RS-25s are being installed later this month.

>On Tuesday, Vice President and program manager of the Boeing Commercial Crew program, John Mullholland spoke at a luncheon for aerospace professionals in Cape Canaveral. Many attendees were hoping he'd reveal the date of the upcoming orbital flight test of Starliner but instead he assured them "we really are close."
Might as well have admitted the inevitable delay rather than waste people's time with obscure comments.

>>10973436
>ngl I defended the notion that SLS would launch before BFR, but it seems like things are changing. I still think it's the case, but it seems like there's a chance that BFR will be first. Pretty interesting.
Depends what you count as first flight, I guess. Starship's first flight will be a prototype demonstrator, SLS's first flight will be Artemis 1.

>>10973491
I guess I should've been more specific. What I meant by "first flight" is a flight of the full stack that's pretty close to the final iteration (ignoring upgrades to the design). So launching Starman to Mars would count for the Falcon Heavy's first flight, but Mk1 Starship hopping around doesn't. EM-1 counts too.

>>10973519
Well EM-1 probably isn't happening in 2020 and Elon wants Starship operational and launching commercial payloads by 2021. It'll be close. Starship seems to be running on Venus-years instead of Mars-years though.

>>10973519
What's gonna be the test payload of the Starship and Super heavy?
I vote for a statue of the SLS, it has to fly at least once

>>10973519
>but Mk1 Starship hopping around doesn't FOR BFR
Completely left out a part of a sentence there. My bad.

>>10973522
It's close. Never expected it to be, though. It would be incredibly funny if Starship starts flying around before SLS. An ultra heavy rocket got delayed so much that another ultra heavy rocket was developed and lunched with-in it's development time.

>>10973415
Cringe

>>10973528
Nah, that would probably make SpaceX unpopular to the US government (by order of Shelby). 100t of tow trucks for Starman and his Tesla?

>>10973545
100t of fucking Starlink satellites

>>10973548
100t of Elon Musk porn (i.e. Elon Lustk)

>>10973533
In terms of public perception, Starship is going to start "flying" in October. It's a Starship shaped vehicle to Starship design specs with Raptor engines. Everything else is details, and normies don't care about details. Going to be really fun to see how Shebly reacts.

>>10973548
A couple dozen Starlink satellites and a kick stage to Mars for the bus.
>Starship can claim first commercial payload to Mars by 2020
>Donating that bandwidth to NASA's DSN will making a lot of people at NASA fucking love SpaceX
>You need that infrastructure for the rest of Musk's plans anyways
>Low cost, off the shelf hardware

>>10973569
starlink would be completely useless at Mars, although a derivative technology would be super useful, it's not there yet

>>10973570
Ah contrair, or however French works.

Starlink is an electronically controlled phased array antenna. All you need to do is fly them in formation and you can expand the effective dish size indefinitely.

>>10973545
what about... a fuel depot with a statue of Shelby on top of it?

>>10973570
>Donating that bandwidth to NASA's DSN
>completely useless at Mars

And if they slapped a decent camera on each one, we'd have way more imaging data than we're currently getting.

>>10973057
Ooh! Rah! Noose!

>>10973586
the DSN is limited at Earth, not at Mars
building a pair of big laser link telescopes is the best way to improve the Earth-Mars backbone

>>10973589
https://vocaroo.com/i/s00q0VRA7QQc

>>10973561
>Going to be really fun to see how Shebly reacts.
Probably nothing. Due to the way SLS and it's payloads are set up, BFR can't directly compete with it. Aslo any calls to cancel SLS to replace it with BFR needs his final word on it, and obviously he's not going to do it. He's probably still feeling pretty comfortable being in the pro-SLS crowd unless a power higher up than him calls for a cancellation, but idk who can do that besides the President.

>>10973624
>the President
>higher than Shelby
the only power that Shelby is answerable to are his constituents and Death, may it be swift

It' happening bros
https://twitter.com/dsn_status/status/1173025331609001985?s=19

>>10973633
Is it trying to sell NASA internet providings?

>>10973633
a note: right now they're looking for it, they don't have a lock yet

>>10973629
idk, if Trump really wanted to, then he can probably get SLS canceled.

>>10973657
not really!

>>10973662
How so?

>>10973672
Who funds the government? Congress

Who has the final say on which funds go where in the government? The Senate Appropriations Committee

Who is in charge of the Senate Appropriations Committee? Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama

Try killing his favourite job creation program, just try it...

Also, there’s loads of other Senators and Representatives on both sides of the partisan divide who support SLS as well, including the Democrat representative who’s also from Alabama and in charge of the House committee that funds NASA.

Elon's at Boca Chica.

>>10973705
Sounds corrupt as hell. Hopefully this gets restructured in the fact of newspace's new heavy launchers.

eeeeelon at hopper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MjD-EEQF-8

>>10973767
you ever stop and think to yourself, "damn, I'm a creepy fucko"

they're attempting to establish contact with the poo-lander

they still don't have contact with the Chandrayaan-2 lander

>>10973771
where the fuck do you think you are

>>10973880
answer the question

>>10973882
no u

>>10973888

>>10973767
Starship tweetstorm incoming

>>10968779
Bring back nuclear powered rockets. Don't care how its nuclear

>>10973218
they can call it the HMS Bounty

>>10973415

>>10973477
They don't want to admit they won't get the flag.

>>10973528
A statue of the SLS... made out of scrap steel.

>>10973948
one can hope

>>10973111
Smaller than I expected, tee bee eich.

>>10969659
I don't even like SpaceX as much as most people, but I agree, that was kind of a dark age.

>>10971864

tbqh I thought they looked like the Beastie Boys.

>>10974148
Recently there was some photo (an old-timey looking one) of some freemasons pretending like they had cut some guy's dick off in a dentist's chair. The fat one in that feeemason photo looked like Robert, but now I wonder if the one on the far right of that photo looks like the one on the far right of this thread's OP photo: him who I'm wondering if his real name is Turd.

>>10973100
Prediction: there's a 60% chance we learn at least some of the other passengers for dearMoon on the 28th.

Why does elon have more security than the president now? Is there a threat against him?

>>10974170
crazy $TSLAQ folks

>>10974170
ULA snipers

>>10973767
Well that was a waste of 10 minutes. Thank goodness for playback speed and the position bar that it wasn't three times that.

>>10972300
boilerplates do not count, but functional prototypes do count somewhat

>>10974185
You know they‘re serious cause they shot kennedy.

Small Kalpana 1 rotating space station, from recent Al Globus paper. 56m in radius 112m in diameter, 4 rpm. Total mass 8000 tonnes. Up to 500 people on board at 40m2 each. In equatorial low Earth orbit, so very little radiation protection needed. Source NSF.

BE-4 engine hotfire under a star-studded west Texas sky

>BE-4 tested at 102% .
>Thousands of seconds of test time on the engine so far .
>Tests at Marshall next year .

Brett Alexander, Vice President, Blue Origin, about methane:

>We haven't found any significant issues in all the testing we've done , thousands of ignitions, thousands of seconds of testing , there are benefits in term of no soot , autogenous pressurization

>BE4 is designed for 100 missions ,that means 200 starts , because the engine restarts on the way down , we are building in a lot of margin

>>10974397
Worst docking scheme ever. Source: anyone who knows anything about angular momentum, at all.

>>10974397
>>10974446
Also, who would be demented enough to put a space colony in LOW Earth orbit?! The fuel demands for stationkeeping would be staggering.

>>10974401
>BE-4 tested at 102%
Kinda meaningless if you don’t tell us the duration
>We haven't found any significant issues in all the testing we've done
So that’s why you had to redesign the engine to produce a full 2,400KN of thrust, which took 2 years to do?
>BE4 is designed for 100 missions ,that means 200 starts
The statistic is meaningless when you’ve got no experience reusing rockets, you should probably wait until New Glenn has flown before making such claims.

>>10974449
>Also, who would be demented enough to put a space colony in LOW Earth orbit?! The fuel demands for stationkeeping would be staggering.

No, fuel demands are on the order of a few tens of m/s per year. They are negligible.

Also, equatorial low orbit is the best place for a colony because it saves tens of thousand of tons of radiation shielding mass. This is very significant.

>>10974446
The truss structure actually detaches and docks with Starship in zero g, then spins up and docks with the station.

>>10974446
explain

>>10974456
>No, fuel demands are on the order of a few tens of m/s per year. They are negligible.
What's the mass of the station, anon. 10m/s is easy to do with a baseball or a car. The story is very different with say, a cargo ship.
>>10974456
>it saves tens of thousand of tons of radiation shielding mass.
Versus building it at a lagrange point and having negligible stationkeeping demands at all, possibly for as long as a century or even longer. Those fuel deliveries to LEO add up over time, no matter where the fuel starts from.

>>10974459
>>10974461
>Yo dawg, I herd u like docking your ship, so I made a ship-dock for your ship that takes your ship to the dock.
That's what you've designed. It's exactly as retarded as it sounds.
Align axially with arriving vehicles and the entire process is much easier, not to mention lighter.

>>10974464
You'd be burning significantly more fuel to dock with a lagrange point station than one in LEO, starting from Earth's surface. This would pretty quickly outweigh the station keeping benefits unless your station was truly gigantic.

>>10974464
The mass of the station is 8000 tons. If we assume stationkeeping requirements on the order of 20 m/s per year (as is typical in 500km orbit), then we get only 50 tons of propellant per year using a Raptor engine. But there is no reason to use such high thrust engine, if we assume an electric thruster, then the demands reduce to several tons per year. So again, stationkeeping requirements in low orbit are negligible.

>>10974474
You're assuming most of the population on stations is going to come from Earth. That's only going to be the case for about the first fifty years. From fifty years on until Sol burns out, most people living on and traveling to or from colonies will be from other colonies.

>>10974468
>Align axially with arriving vehicles
Not possible with current Starship designs.

>>10974481
This station is intended to be a near-term station, think this century. Most people and cargo will most definitely come from Earth.

>>10974485
Sure it is. They all have crane connections in the nose, and anchor points in the base.

>>10974487
Yeah, but all of the industry is going to be out on the Moon. No station of this size is going to be built with materials from Earth, not without a Space Elevator. And I think we can count that out long before sufficient industry exists on the Moon to produce materials for stations of this size.

>>10974493
Not to mention a Space Elevator would mean all of these stations would be built in GEO at minimum.

>>10974493
The mass of the station is 8000 tons. This is 80 Starship launches. So it can be built from Earth materials.

We are never colonizing space unless we can lift thousands of tons to LEO every year anyway.

>>10974497
>This is 80 Starship launches.
I severely doubt this, because it does not take into account the volume of the station's components.

>>10974497
>>10974504
Whereas for lunar industry, I can ask "does it fit in a standard-sized cargo container?", and the answer tends to be yes for basically everything we need.

>>10974504
Mass of 8500 tons is from Al Globus Paper here, table 2. There is also a bigger 30,000 ton variant mentioned. Note that the station volume is mostly air.

http://space.alglobus.net/papers/Easy.pdf

>>10974443
Thanks

Why do we use helium for reaction control thruster while hydrogen is much lighter?

>>10974562
Helium has a way better weight/volume, hydrogen is trash tier at that.

>>10974578
Oh i get it

So this is not going to be used in starship?

>>10974635
Nope, bogan welded steel all the way m8.

>>10974642
Budd me liek dat me sad

Florida MK2 upper bulkhead is almost complete. Crews still working at night.

Does this mean Boca Chica is ahead right now? They already installed the bulkhead.

>>10974695
I mean the Florida crew were initially behind anyway due to starting later. Also, Dorian caused them to lose around a week’s worth of work as they had to stop construction, put the tank section in the “Cathedral of Elon”, tie everything down, evacuate for two days, come back and set things up again and take the tank out of it’s shelter to resume construction.

>>10974642
Shouldnt they need to have insulation?

>>10974695
I wonder if they'll do both Starship on same day. One for 20km and other for 100km.

>>10974504
>station components
I think the idea is to build the components in space from simple materials shipped from Earth, so you aren't launching cans anymore you're launching rolls of steel or aluminum sheet metal which get bent, cut, and welded in space.

>>10974562
>>10974578
>>10974617
Nobody uses helium thrusters though, SpaceX uses nitrogen (because it's heavy and cheap), and the list of commonly used ones includes hydrazine, which is a nitrogen-hydrogen compound that can decompose and produce energy. SpaceX does use helium on their vehicles but for pressurization purposes, not for thrusting.

>>10974635
That tank was busted (on purpose) before the end of 2016, and it was late last year when they committed to the switch to steel by chopping up their carbon fiber jig into pieces and throwing away the scrap.

>>10974839
it'd be a nightmare to organize that

>>10974829
Why does a tank need insulation at all, anon? Saturn V didn't use any. Shuttle needed it because otherwise the ice being shed during launch would have completely destroyed the orbiter's heat shield. SLS uses it because *shrug*, gotta keep those contractors alive I guess. Delta IV uses it because *shrug* also.
Starship is going to be a big steel can stacked vertically with no fragile heat shield in the danger zone for falling ice. It won't need insulation. Fuel boil-off is a meme anyway because of how long it really takes (hours and hours and hours) plus the fact that SpaceX is going to use load-and-go procedures to minimize time spent sitting and waiting with full tanks.

>>10974829
Why?

>>10974397
the rotating spaceship and spacestation threads on NSF are absolute dogshit, Coastal Ron is a fuckhead who screams about any reasonable proposal until they leave and everybody left is retarded
it's better to just ignore them

>>10975083
>Coastal Ron is a fuckhead who screams about any reasonable proposal
Care to give examples?

>>10975032
6 month trip to mars

>>10975140
What's the difference between a space station and a spaceship?
Let me go find the spergouts

>>10975158
>What's the difference between a space station and a spaceship?
I'd figure that a spaceship's primary goal is to move from one place to another. While a spacestation's primary goal is to stay in one orbit in particular.

>>10975143
Trip only takes 3-4 months, also landing propellant will be stored in smaller, probably insulated header tanks, not in the big ones

>>10975167
wrong, they're the same fucking thing, just different names
there is no sharp line between the two

>>10975191
Continuum fallacy. There maybe is no sharp line but there is a profound difference anyway. If this autistic cherrypicking is what you post on NSF, no wonder you got screamed at.

>>10975197
I didn't post shit, I just agree with them. I have mastered the ability to lurk moar

Are there ANY electronics in the mk1 vehicles yet? Or is it all steel? The hopper had everything just bolted to the outside, but that can’t happen with the orbital prototypes. Perhaps everything will go in the legs

>>10975260
I would imagine they would put it up underneath the engine skirt or above the LOx dome

SpaceX: I made this
...
NASA: I made this

nice gif from NASA InSight landing

https://mars.nasa.gov/system/resources/detail_files/24627_insight20190822-16.gif

>>10975143
The coast to Mars happens with full header tanks and empty main tanks.
The main tanks act like huge dewar flasks, allowing passive cooling to keep the methane and oxygen from boiling. In fact, SpaceX may need to install small heaters in some areas to prevent methane and oxygen ICE from forming, because with this setup passive cooling will be very effective.
Once properly on Mars and refilling the tanks via ISRU, the large amount of cryogenic propellant plus the extreme thinness of the atmosphere outside will mean that boil-off rates will be very low even with no active cooling system in place. If they set up a thin reflective mylar blanket with a few feet of space separating it from the main tank walls they could reduce the rate of boil off even more. They will probably have a small cryocooler setup to capture boil off vapors and re-condense them, as the energy cost of doing this will be far less than the cost of making that mass of methane and oxygen from CO2 and water. In fact they can just feed boil-off vapors back around into the cryocooler that liquefied them after they were produced in the ISRU plant to begin with.

Basically they only need the active cooling capacity that comes with ISRU. If Starship is idling in orbit with full main tanks it may also need some active cooling but probably not much, being highly reflective it won't absorb much of the Sun's heat. This is also true for sitting on the surface of the Moon with propellant in the main tanks. At some distance from the Sun, probably out near Jupiter's orbit, the need for passive cooling even for the main tanks in direct sunlight or on the surface of an object will disappear. Obviously no significant active cooling is needed out at Saturn, since Titan has liquid methane and ethane across its surface despite its greenhouse effect.

>>10975187
The smaller tanks are insulated by virtue of being inside the bigger tanks, no extra insulation needed.

>>10975267
lol what is this

>>10975385
>that off-angle descent
shit's fucked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVTeGZWmyLA

Elon Musk Pleased With The StarHopper!

WE ARE GOING

https://www.nasa.gov/moontomars/

>>10975450
wew

>>10975489
>NASA’s Space Launch System, or SLS, is a powerful, advanced rocket for a new era of human exploration beyond Earth’s orbit
Funny considering that SLS is a relic from an older era that NASA should be doing everything in it's power to get away from.

>>10975426
'nuke Mars'

>>10975450
What rocket are they planning for Mars? Starship? Or SLS?

>>10975545
SLS of course.

>>10975489
>SLS is AMERICA's rocket built by AMERICANS in AMERICA
shelby posting irl

>>10975626
But the SLS (god bless it) IS America's rocket. Thousands of contractors each hiring thousands of highly skilled and respected AMERICAN engineers. If you know someone from the AMERICAN aerospace industry, then chances are that you know someone who's doing their part in bringing America back to the moon. Can SpaceX say the same? Hm? No? Of course not, because SpaceX is a greedy questionable company who's only goal is to bring stuff into space as cheaply as possible. They'll keep their production lines short and efficient just to spite others, selfishly keeping SpaceX jobs in SpaceX. Meanwhile, the good ol'boys (and gals) at NASA is spreading the production of SLS (god bless it) so that everyone has a chance to make something that can go to space.

I'm sorry if I broke your little fantasy of Elon being space Jesus. But the future in space isn't going to be built on cheap launchers that can go frequently. But it'll be built on reliable AMERICAN rockets that were maliciously planned and checked to ensure that they're as safe as possible. The SLS (god bless it) is the only worthwhile way into space, and the sooner you realize this, the sooner you'll be a true American.

>>10975658
>Can SpaceX say the same?
yes ITAR basically requires all rocket companies be american and hire american

New thread:

>>10975679