/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10760017
bump

What exactly about it? If anything the way you are asking sounds like something to be asked in the homework board

>>10760017
>A room crammed with people will be 50’ Fahrenheit

>Hydrogen cyanide doesn’t float on normal air

>Pellets soaked in liquid can be compared to liquid

>https://www.cyanidecode.org/cyanide-facts/environmental-health-effects

>Hydrogen cyanide requires a PPM of 300 to kill, not as little as 100, even on malnourished and generally unhealthy people

>Hydrogen cyanide is actually water, not Hydrogen cyanide

>Ventilation times for normal buildings can be compared to boxes with multiple vents in the ceiling designed to remove a lighter-than-air gas

>>10760258
>The people removing the bodies didn’t just wear gasmasks and enter the room when levels would still be fatal

>>10760258
You're response doesn't seem to be related to the infographic.
>A room full of people will be 50F.
A freestanding cellar in Poland in winter will be much cooler than 50F, especially on the concrete floor, where the pellets rest.

> Hydrogen cyanide doesn't float.
So?

>Pellets soaked in liquid can be compared to liquid.
If you notice, I treat each pellet as a separate surface area. In reality it will be an even slower process because it will take some time for the cyanide in the middle of the pellet to work it's way to the exterior of the pellet.

>Hydrogen cyanide needs 300ppm to kill.
Yes, that is the number used, though in reality that is only fatal to 50% of the population. American gas chambers run at 7,500ppm and are not always successful.

>HCN is water.
?
>Ventilation times for normal buildings can be compared to boxes with multiple vents in the ceiling designed to remove a lighter-than-air gas

HCN is only slightly lighter than air. In fact, oxygen is heavier than air more than HCN is lighter than air, yet oxygen does not separate out. Just like when we tent homes for fumigation, large fans must be used to ventilate HCN, merely opening holes in the roof is insufficient.

>>10760017
>implying he pellets in the canisters are pure HCN
>implying the pellets where simply left in the canisters to evaporate, and not poured out/agitated to increase surface area and increased evaporation
>assuming that the SS cared enough about the saftey of Capos to make them wait 24 hrs to vent the chamber to load the next batch
>implying most of the victims of the holocaust even died in the gas chambers to begin with
It's retarded. It's about as stupis as when hoaxers go on and on about how it would have been impossible to fully cremate 6 million bodies, when clearly no actual historian claims that was the case.

>>10760838
What I think is most retarded about the "Holocaust math doesn't add up" nonsense is that they analyze it from a linear perspective i.e. one oven running around the clock burning one body at a time type shit. It's beyond laughable and never worth responding to.

>>10760838
>Can't math
The math assumes 1,000 sphere's individually floating in mid air, not in a cannister. It is an old deal assumption and reality would have had one or more sides sealed by the floor it is resting on.

>Don't care about the capos
Yet the SS allegedly rode bicycles in the chambers between gassings. Regardless, just allowing one can of Zyklon B to evaporate would take a day. The Zyklon B would be buried under the bodies, where the gas would continue to accumulate, releasing a cloud of deadly gas everytime you moved a corpse, unless you allowed sufficient time to ventilate.

>Implying everyone died in a gas chamber
No, that's not my claim, but the Auschwitz gas chambers are the only thing that is specifically claimed, and easy to disprove.

>>10760851
>they analyze it from a linear perspective i.e. one oven running around the clock burning one body
I can see where a Jew would struggle with accepting time's arrow, but for the rest of us, time is linear.

>>10761161
>The math assumes 1,000 sphere's individually floating in mid air, not in a cannister
>evaporation from an open top vessel
No it fucking doesn't.
>SS allegedly rode bicycles in the chambers between gassings
claims no legitimate historian
>le jews
Nice job revealing your power level. Go back.

>>10761202
>>evaporation from an open top vessel
>No it fucking doesn't

The formula is for an open top vessel vs. a closed container which uses a more complex formula which accounts for the equilibrium of the vapor in the surrounding gas. An open top vessel assumes no build up of gas, with perfect ventilation.

How about addressing the claim of Zyklon B requiring a minimum of 11.5 hours to outgas under ideal circumstances? Is there a flaw in the math or the assumptions that could lead to an answer that makes the stories of 30 minute cycles possible?

>>10761161
>I can see where a Jew would struggle with accepting time's arrow, but for the rest of us, time is linear.
What a fucking moron. I guess making dinner tonight will take me several hours since I nothing can be done concurrently.

>>10761260
The assumptions suck. I doubt the SS gave a shit about the health of the capos tasked to clean up the chambers, not to mention they were provided gas masks

>>10760780
>So?

Hydrogen cyanide is lighter-than-air. It will fill the room from top-to-bottom.

>If you notice, I

It’s fucking hilarious how quickly you outed yourself as the author of the infographic.
“It came from /pol/“ my ass.

>>10761307

Maybe he came from /pol/

German paper on Prussian blue in 1933 mentions that in room temperature the substance had almost completely evaporated in 30 minutes, which means your math is probably quite bad
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ange.19340471116

>>10761260
>The formula is for an open top vessel
And that's precisely one of the reasons why the infographic is garbage

>>10760017
>Using this long series of poor math bullshit instead of disproving the Prussian Blue wall by showing you can go from Prussian Blue to Hydrogen Cyanide but not backwards.

>>10760017
>This infographic comes from /pol

>>10761384
You are truly dimwitted.

The formula for an open vessel assumes a zero concentration of cyanide in the surrounding air. It assumes the pellets are hanging individually in mid air, separated enough to have no effect on each other.

>>10761373
This is the first helpful post, but I cannot access the article. Do you have a better link?

>>10761595
>t illiterate nigger
The open vessel formula assumes a cylinder with a closed bottom, closed sides, and an open top.

>>10761599
only open file i could find
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/works/peters-1933/htm/intro01.htm
the phrase I mentioned appears on pg. 64

>>10760017
>>10760780
Jesus this is so dumb.

Cellars are good at keeping heat during winter, and you are pretty much replacing most the air in the room instantly as you are cramming people with body temperature in, all of which are breathing out hot air. It seems reasonable to me that they have some kind of heat in some part of the building too, but I dont know. 10 C is a really stupid and not realistic anyway.

And you are assuming the room is full of air, but with the room crammed full of people and it being 2.41 m high, I think easily half the air will be replaced.

Keeping this in mind and with the more realistic temp of 25 C(which is probably still low) I get, with even your questionable method 44 minutes to get 300 PPM. And that is using the high estimate of 300 PPM for sick and malnourished people with very low body weight. The more realistic number to use would probably be 100 PPM which will be reached within 15 min. And I don't think these numbers would necessarily apply to a room full of people all suffering from the initial symptoms with little air to begin with anyway.

Finally why do you use the 24 - 48 hours they ventilate a house for, how is this number relevant? They probably just aired it out and started removing the body's after. Even the 1.5 hours they ventilate a plane for is probably a lot longer than what they used.

Not that I expected any more honest investigation than this from /pol/

>>10760017
Why would you wait for it to fully ventilate when you can have a bunch of guys with gas masks shovel out the bodies quickly so you can send in the next batch of jews while there's still a decent amount of kike zyke in the air as a semi-continuous process?
It seems like you're coming up with contrivances to tilt the math in favor of the conclusion you already want to come to.
Here's a bit of advice if you want to avoid confirmation bias: play devil's advocate against yourself. If you think something is true, try as hard as you can to prove that it isn't true instead of diving into it already convinced that you're right.
Maybe if you try doing that next time you won't come here with a bunch of flawed math making conclusive statements about the gas chambers while inadvertently claiming that the Germans forgot what gas masks are.

Also take a chemistry class my dude

>>10761384
>>The formula is for an open top vessel
>And that's precisely one of the reasons why the infographic is garbage

Jesus man, you are truly dense. An "open top vessel" is jargon for zero vapor pressure from the air acting upon the liquid. The formula has no variable for gas vapor pressure, only for liquid vapor pressure. It is the same as if the pellet were a sphere hanging in free air with high winds constantly removing the build up of HCN. The reality was that the pellets were in a pile, surrounded by a forest of bodies that inhibits the propagation of HCN in the chamber. In other words, in real life it would have acted more slowly.

Seriously man, just look at the formula. It is self-explanatory.

>>10760017
The amount of effort /pol/tards will go to verify their agendas is unreal.

>>10761833
>10C is a stupid guess for the temp of a concrete cellar floor in Poland in winter
What is a more realistic temp in your estimation? The formula stays essentially the same up to about 75C.

>with the room crammed full of people and it being 2.41 m high, I think easily half the air will be replaced
According to:
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-volume-of-average-human
A human body is about 0.071 call c meters in volume. *1,000 = 71cubic meters - 506 cubic meters still leaves around 435 cubic meters which does not significantly change the outcome, but the bodies would prevent air from circulating, especially when the people started to die, smothering the pellets with their corpses.

>Even EPA MSDS sheets say HCN is not deadly at below 150. American gas chambers run at 7,500 and many people survive that, even after an hour's exposure. A Swedish man even tried to kill his wife 10 years ago using Zyklon B and despite an estimated concentration of up to 7,000 ppm in her car, she survived. 300 PPM is the level at which it is estimated 50% of people will die within 30 minutes. It is beyond absurd that Jews are the magical exception to this rule.

> It is relevant because the process has to have some scientific basis. So, we start with assumptions that every government and user of this popular product use. Regardless, as I have shown, it would be at least a half day, and probably much longer, for the pellets to outgass. It is not feasible that the room could be entered while HCN concentrations were still climbing. Yet, the claim is that they cycles 1,000people per hour through this death machine. As you can confirm in these mainline chemistry formulas, this is not even close to being possible.

>>10762112
>75C
Sorry, that is 75F or about 24C

And some of my formatting got jacked, the last two paragraphs shouldn't have been quotes.

>>10762110
Your a nigger

>>10761161
What a retard

I suggest enrolling in community college once you're out of high school

>>10760017
ITT: A NAZI tries to pwn the /sci/s with facts and logic.

>hate Jews so much you want to get rid of them once and for all
>still try your best to disprove you actually were pretty close to accomplishing the impossible

This offends me as a German. Not to mention we did all this industrialized killing while also almost winning a war against half of the civilized world. Talk about German effectiveness, man.

>>10761833
>The more realistic number to use would probably be 100 PPM which will be reached within 15 min.

The Nazis were supposedly able to kill most of them in twenty minutes so that’s likely the correct answer. It’s not like killing any stragglers wouldn’t be trivial anyway, what with being blinded and suffocating and shit.

>>10762392
That's very probable that we're one of the first generations of intelligent life, yeah. It would still be pretty amazing to find all kinds of weird life out there even if it's not intelligent or just microbial. But then again, I think there could still be a lot found on Earth >>10762462

>>10762344
>ITT: A NAZI tries to pwn the /sci/s with facts and logic.
No, I know /sci is more centrist politically (like 99.9% of the world). This makes you a much tougher and smaller crowd with slower moving threads that allow time to find a good debate.

/pol is full of name-calling, low intelligence posts, but it is also a great place to get the word out. It is better to be critiqued by /sci first to find the genuinely weak points of the infographic.

I still haven't figured out if this guy
>>10761384
is serious about the "open top vessel" thing.

Walk me through this, why are you using the rate of evaporation of a liquid and why the mass transfer coefficient of water (liquid) - also what does the superscript "m" mean and why did you choose this and not the other value that says water (liquid) ?

I tried accessing the archive.fo link below it but it does not load the scihub page.
I did find the article https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0017931096003390 which points to different empirical coefficients calculated under different conditions varying greatly. I can be wrong here and the explanation may have been left out for brevity, but it looks as if the 0.02 value was cherry-picked because it worked really nicely into the claim.

I'm with other people in questioning that a room filled with people who have just taken off their clothes and are breathing out air at near 37C remains at 10C, and after 25C the vapor pressure of cyanide is higher than atmospheric (so it would boil if it was a liquid, right?)

>>10760780
>HCN is only slightly lighter than air. In fact, oxygen is heavier than air ...
There is wind and convection in the air. If left alone, oxygen will also form a gradient with nitrogen, as will gases like carbon dioxide. This is an issue for agricultural workers with silos https://extension.psu.edu/silo-gases-the-hidden-danger - this may not be significant enough to leave you hypoxic if you're standing at the top of a room with completely unmoving air for a long time, but a small change in PPM of cyanide can be sufficiently poisonous. It also doesn't help that people who have been starved and traveled for days on a crowded train and have vitamin deficiencies don't have the same tolerance for cyanide and neurotoxic gases as normal people (you can google search this and find a handful of NIH papers about it) - in the case of cyanide, among other things, this may be because starved neurons depend more on ketones, which are only metabolized into ATP through ox phos which cyanide inhibits

>>10760851
If you don't respond, it was a killer argument that roasted you. If you respond, you're in damage control. /pol/ purely relies on unfalsifiability. It's one of the only two things (the other one being Gish gallops) that protects their bullshit insecure white victim narrative.

>>10760017
>These are are generous numbers not achieved in the real world
Also:
>The room will be 10*C/ 50*F and stay at that temperature for 3 hours while its filled with 1000 people.
>The the room will be perfectly filled with air, even with 1000 people in it.
>The Nazis will not start unloading the room until 24 hours have passed because they are total Nazis about health and safety in the concentration camp.
>The Nazis will unload one corpse onto the elevator.

Nothing dishonest about this infographic.

>>10763325
I think the problem is neo nazis all make the assumption that actual nazis were as dumb as they are.

>>10762367
Yeah, They were socialist, stingy fags.

>>10763499
I think the estimates carried out for the leaders during the assessments were clocking 130 and up fairly often